vital persistence baseline.
Unlikely. While i do think it is a really good trait it is not mandatory for playing a necro.
Although I fully agree on the importance of Vital Persistence for necro’s in pvp, I’m not sure whether making it immediately baseline is the way to go. It surely would be quite useful for pure power necro’s but I’m afraid making it baseline would make more tanky necro’s a bit too strong.
I would therefore be more interested to see how a slight change to the trait would work. I would propose the general LF decrease from be lowered from 4% to 3%, while letting the trait decrease this value by another 33%. This way, using this trait will give us the same values as today but at least we have some lower decrease for every necro. This way, I think we can also better see the impact it will give on all types of necro builds.
I would propose the general LF decrease from be lowered from 4% to 3%, while letting the trait decrease this value by another 33%. This way, using this trait will give us the same values as today but at least we have some lower decrease for every necro.
I really like this idea!
Bluewizard’s idea is a pretty solid one, at least for testing. I honestly think the best option is to push Spectral Mastery as a burst generation option, and pushing the reduced shroud CD to another trait (VP shouldn’t both increase shroud sustain and allow you to get back in faster compared to the burst option of SM), while leaving VP’s degen as is.
Vital persistence baseline wouldn’t make necros op. Virtually all necros in pro tournaments have it, and they all still drop fast in any team fights. Focus reaper is still the meta.
I really don’t think making VP baseline would make necros op. It would widen build variety for sure. But with that said, I do agree it’s unlikely they would do that. This comes from long history of necros not able to get nice things, and what nice things we get, half of it is taken away (read: Blighter’s Boon for an example).
Vital persistence baseline wouldn’t make necros op. Virtually all necros in pro tournaments have it, and they all still drop fast in any team fights. Focus reaper is still the meta.
Of course they do, because VP does absolutely nothing to stop focus, it just allows you twice as much passive shroud time. The way to go isn’t to make VP baseline but improve the other options in that tier. VP isn’t mandatory because its so strong, it just happens that Soul Reaping is nearly universal, and VP is the only real trait option in that tier (due to the weakness of taking multiple Spectrals and Fear of Death being garbage), if Spectral Mastery became worth taking, and Fear of Death was merged into Curses and replaced with something else VP wouldn’t be taken as much.
As an example, I play Reaper MM and so never go Soul Reaping. Despite having a much weaker shroud I still feel mostly capable of using Shroud for utility and damage soaking, and can deal with 2v1s just fine (did a 2v1 for about a minute then 2+treb v 1 for ~30s not that long ago).
Vital persistence baseline wouldn’t make necros op. Virtually all necros in pro tournaments have it, and they all still drop fast in any team fights. Focus reaper is still the meta.
I really don’t think making VP baseline would make necros op. It would widen build variety for sure. But with that said, I do agree it’s unlikely they would do that. This comes from long history of necros not able to get nice things, and what nice things we get, half of it is taken away (read: Blighter’s Boon for an example).
Just to be clear: I never had any intention in saying it would make certain builds OP. I’m just wondering how it would effect necro in general, talking from power necros to condi necros to more tanky necros. Just consider for example the signet necro build after a change to VP. In this case, one could consider to take Blood Magic over Soul Reaping as this way they get access to another signet trait that will allow them to corrupt more boons while on the other hand allowing them to get additional life siphon. Will this make them OP in team fights? Not at all. In fact they will still have to face the same problems they are facing today. But what about a 1vs1 situation? How will a change of VP and baseline LF decrease and a possible trait change, affect a 1vs1? What about condi-oriented minion builds that would now consider taking Curses or even Reaper for additional chill damage? All things we will have to consider and see.
Again, I’m not saying all these builds will become OP, neither will I say that these new builds will all be successful or the next pro-pvp necro build. But we have to consider the fact that making VP baseline would change quite a lot, and therefore also need to know what happens in most cases when things become too strong: nerfs. Therefore I think it would be better to first make a small change and see how it all works out. Is it not enough? Fine, then me being cautious was not necessary and we can ask to make it baseline. But if it is, we can focus on possible other changes. Because if making VP baseline would become too strong in certain situations, a nerf might bring us way back than the point we are at today.
- VP would not make bunker necro OP, since it does not reduce the shroud decay due to damage. The only thing I can see is that bunker necro may be allowed to play without SR (like DM/BM/Reaper) which then indirectly is a boost. But I see that as a good thing since this comes at the price of reduced damage.
- boosting other traits competing with VP will just confirm SR as a mandatory trait line. But on the other hand, I don’t think making VP baseline will change the fact that SR is too good to pass, since Dhuumfire and Death Perception are still very strong. As said above, defensive builds may be the only ones that may benefit fully from dropping SR.
In any case, I think this should be done, and it can be done as Bluewizard suggests as a compromise.