Guild Wars 2

Hello fellow necromancers, as you might have noticed before. Vital persistance is in a bit of an odd place. Unless you only use 1 to 2 skills in death shroud or use shroud for a quick toggle, it comes mandatory within the soul reaping trait line and is making that trait line mandatory in PVP for survivability, whilst the other traits are also contain quite a few good reasons to pick this traitline. It is pretty much mandatory to take this trait to make our class mechanic usable.

I suggest that the decrease in lifeforce decay whilst in this trait becomes baseline: Every necromancers life force would only drain half as fast and the people get some freedom in their building.

Now the trait needs replacing, why don’t we mix in something that makes PVE death shroud builds a thing? what about this:

Quick demise: lose life force 3 times as quick in death shroud, but also deal 30% more damage whilst in death shroud.

this makes you lose life force at 150% of the current rate (3 times 50%) but makes your death shroud damage increase by a large amount. Taking this trait changes your death shroud from a defensive cooldown into an offensive cooldown that protects you a lot shorter, but deals more damage then your normal attacks outside of death shroud. It would be build defining, so might be a good idea to make it switch places with death perception(so it is a grandmaster, and death perception is a master trait.)

What do you think, would you pick this trait and make a death shroud PVE build? Or would you drop soul reaping from your PVP build and switch things up?

I agree with you, that vital persistence need some rework.
It made soul reaping mandatory for reapers, since reaper shroud is amazing and you want sit in that for sometime.
Soul reaping is not a bad trait line, has some good points, but i would rather take other stuffs.

You can’t replace something practically mandatory with something else also practically mandatory. Though the baseline of VP I can agree with.

The 50% reduced decay should definitly be baseline. It is not the worst offender (that goes to Dragonhunter minor trait that increases the bow dmg by 10%… WTF? ), but it is really annoying that we are “shoehorned” into Soul Reaping if we actually want shroud usage to be useful at all; And with Reaper, this becomes even more apparent, having 2 traitlines basically locked down is BS.

Sigmoid.7082:

You can’t replace something practically mandatory with something else also practically mandatory. Though the baseline of VP I can agree with.

Mandatory for a direct damage shroud dps build yes, for non shroud builds or condi builds it would be useless. That’s the point, it would have uses in certain builds, and probably change the meta of PVE necro builds in that specific niche.

Make it baseline. Necro is too weak without it.

guildabd.6529:

Make it baseline. Necro is too weak without it.

And what do you think about the suggested replacement trait?

The question is tho make it baseline for Soul Reaping or make it baseline for necro ? cause if u want to trait other stuff then Vital Persistance or do u want to trait other stuff then Soul Reaping all together ?

Imho Soul Reaping should be the line for Shrouds and the F1 mechanic and if u wanna improve that mechanic or not but if so u should take soul reaping. Imo make Vital Persistance baseline for Soul Reaping BUT not baseline for Necro.

I may get arguments for that last one but imho if u make it baseline for Necro then it feels like u can have the cake and eat it to….

the noobiniser.7465:

guildabd.6529:

Make it baseline. Necro is too weak without it.

And what do you think about the suggested replacement trait?

Put Dhumnfire there and give us a grandmaster trait that can Lifeblast shoot faster by like 25%. This should also be stackable with the 15% from Reaper. So now Reaper form is a fast on autoattack(and can do decent dps as the aftercast is pretty huge) and

You can also apply reliable burn in melee. If you decide to go Condi-Route by locking into Reaping + Soul Reaping.

Cause at the moment. Dhumnfire just isn’t worth it over either of the other two. For pure damage. Go +50%, for condi/survivability go Stab/Stun-Break.

Edit: Or just a bit faster if you go Chill-Dmg. But then you can do Chill, Burn & Fear damage reliable but this would then require fine tuning in terms of damage but Burn is already broken as hell.

the noobiniser.7465:

guildabd.6529:

Make it baseline. Necro is too weak without it.

And what do you think about the suggested replacement trait?

Really that is your biggest concern?

Fine, increase Recharge aspect From 15 to 20%.

Or make half of it baseline and other half in SR.

It’s not gonna happen, there’s no way this trait will be base line for necro, it may become base line for soul reaping for in no way it’s gonna be base line for the entire profession
Look at warrior fast hands for example

Instead of messing with the base degen rate of deathshroud I think they should add another degen-reducing trait. maybe get rid of soul comprehension and replace it with another 50% degen reduction trait. meaning you can trait death and soul reaping to get 1% degeneration (4% base, 2% if just soul reaping or death is traited, 1% if both are traited). this gives flexibility in builds since you can opt to trait death magic instead of soul reaping for built in degen-reduction. or both lines can be taken for a super-tank build.

Zantmar.5406:

It’s not gonna happen, there’s no way this trait will be base line for necro, it may become base line for soul reaping for in no way it’s gonna be base line for the entire profession
Look at warrior fast hands for example

That’s also something i thought about. But they want to increase build diversity, forcing you to always take that trait tree if you want to have some use from our only class mechanic seems stupid. no other class’ mechanic is balanced around always taking that one trait, as far as i’m aware.

Also I try to increase diversity in adding a trait that overhauls the use of DS completely, making it a short burst mode that basicly removes most of it’s survivability uses but increases it’s damage over our weapon sets, increasing it’s usability in a DPS perspective.

Blue Jinjo.2603:

Instead of messing with the base degen rate of deathshroud I think they should add another degen-reducing trait. maybe get rid of soul comprehension and replace it with another 50% degen reduction trait. meaning you can trait death and soul reaping to get 1% degeneration (4% base, 2% if just soul reaping or death is traited, 1% if both are traited). this gives flexibility in builds since you can opt to trait death magic instead of soul reaping for built in degen-reduction. or both lines can be taken for a super-tank build.

That would mean you can stay in death shroud indefinetly whilst traited in both those traits? could be a thing.

It’s just that i mostly PVE and i can see no use for the death traitline atm, for obvious reasons…

I seriously think Reaper is fine without SR. I ran Spite/BM/Reaper to great success in a number of PvE encounters, and found it generally viable as a power build in PvP as well. I think Vital Persistence is okay as it is.

I perfecly agree with you on VP baseline, and I would use as a comparison a similar problem amongst mesmer: illusionary persona. This trait was mandatory in shatter builds, and most PvP builds relied heavily on shatters. At the end, all shatter builds were 44006, so all PvP builds were 44006. The only people not using it were PvE mesmers because they didn’t use shatter.

VP is in almost the same state: near-mandatory in PvP, dispensable only in PvE where the dagger build provides the theoretical best DPS (though shrouds provide more utilities).

With the 23rd june patch, illusionary persona became baseline. This is one of the main reason why mesmers suddenly got OP in PvP (they could now abandon the “illusion” trait line and get, for example, PU…). But this temporary OP-ness is already partly fixed (the damage of power shatters have been decreased) and the only thing left is a nerf to PU (which was also insanely buffed on 23rd june update). These problems aside, this change has been amazing for mesmers in terms of build diversity. There are now 2 main burst shatter builds types (66600, 66060) and 2 or 3 condi shatter (66006, 06606, 06066), with each several little variations. I even managed to run very viable bunker/support mesmer which would not be possible without this change.

So yes, VP baseline may be strong, but even if it becomes OP for a while, this can be fixed and leave necromancer in a much better spot in terms of build diversity.

As for the replacement suggestion, I think this is the right type of mechanics (loosing sustain to gain damage) to make necro balanced in PvE.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I seriously think Reaper is fine without SR. I ran Spite/BM/Reaper to great success in a number of PvE encounters, and found it generally viable as a power build in PvP as well. I think Vital Persistence is okay as it is.

For PvE just about anything works (though you would probably take SR anyways for the damage mod as a Reaper). But in PvP, “doable” and viable/realistic is a pretty big difference. VP (or at the very least, Spectral Mastery) is essentially mandatory for surviving any focus fire, and even then it’s often not enough. Not to mention, there’s apt to be said about clunkiness of running out of Lf from degeneration, which interrupts Reaper skills.

Some considerations may have to be made further of it does go Baseline, sure, but the difference between the have and have not is too significant with just how much of our Life Force comes from that line alone. VP doubles the pool essentially when not hit, Spectral Armor is a huge boost, in addition to 15% more AND gluttony. The class would benefit from having it made baseline.

I can even settle for a 25% degeneration decrease as baseline. And you still would have an option to go Soul Reaping and pick the other 25% from vital persistance. With this change you’d open more build variation, because let’s be honest, nobody pick the spectral skill trait because of vital persistance.

ronpierce.2760:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I seriously think Reaper is fine without SR. I ran Spite/BM/Reaper to great success in a number of PvE encounters, and found it generally viable as a power build in PvP as well. I think Vital Persistence is okay as it is.

For PvE just about anything works (though you would probably take SR anyways for the damage mod as a Reaper). But in PvP, “doable” and viable/realistic is a pretty big difference. VP (or at the very least, Spectral Mastery) is essentially mandatory for surviving any focus fire, and even then it’s often not enough. Not to mention, there’s apt to be said about clunkiness of running out of Lf from degeneration, which interrupts Reaper skills.

Some considerations may have to be made further of it does go Baseline, sure, but the difference between the have and have not is too significant with just how much of our Life Force comes from that line alone. VP doubles the pool essentially when not hit, Spectral Armor is a huge boost, in addition to 15% more AND gluttony. The class would benefit from having it made baseline.

Best reaper build I found was with curses instead of SR….

I mean unless you took dhuumfire which is in SR…. your not going to br auto attacking in rs very often..

NeXeD.3042:

ronpierce.2760:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I seriously think Reaper is fine without SR. I ran Spite/BM/Reaper to great success in a number of PvE encounters, and found it generally viable as a power build in PvP as well. I think Vital Persistence is okay as it is.

For PvE just about anything works (though you would probably take SR anyways for the damage mod as a Reaper). But in PvP, “doable” and viable/realistic is a pretty big difference. VP (or at the very least, Spectral Mastery) is essentially mandatory for surviving any focus fire, and even then it’s often not enough. Not to mention, there’s apt to be said about clunkiness of running out of Lf from degeneration, which interrupts Reaper skills.

Some considerations may have to be made further of it does go Baseline, sure, but the difference between the have and have not is too significant with just how much of our Life Force comes from that line alone. VP doubles the pool essentially when not hit, Spectral Armor is a huge boost, in addition to 15% more AND gluttony. The class would benefit from having it made baseline.

Best reaper build I found was with curses instead of SR….

I mean unless you took dhuumfire which is in SR…. your not going to br auto attacking in rs very often..

I had far more success (in fact, beat Grouch and Nightmare’s team in Stronghold!) with SRS Reaper, running Celestial signets with Dhuumfire. Deals fairly heavy damage due to might stacking and isnt super squish.

ronpierce.2760:

NeXeD.3042:

ronpierce.2760:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I seriously think Reaper is fine without SR. I ran Spite/BM/Reaper to great success in a number of PvE encounters, and found it generally viable as a power build in PvP as well. I think Vital Persistence is okay as it is.

For PvE just about anything works (though you would probably take SR anyways for the damage mod as a Reaper). But in PvP, “doable” and viable/realistic is a pretty big difference. VP (or at the very least, Spectral Mastery) is essentially mandatory for surviving any focus fire, and even then it’s often not enough. Not to mention, there’s apt to be said about clunkiness of running out of Lf from degeneration, which interrupts Reaper skills.

Some considerations may have to be made further of it does go Baseline, sure, but the difference between the have and have not is too significant with just how much of our Life Force comes from that line alone. VP doubles the pool essentially when not hit, Spectral Armor is a huge boost, in addition to 15% more AND gluttony. The class would benefit from having it made baseline.

Best reaper build I found was with curses instead of SR….

I mean unless you took dhuumfire which is in SR…. your not going to br auto attacking in rs very often..

I had far more success (in fact, beat Grouch and Nightmare’s team in Stronghold!) with SRS Reaper, running Celestial signets with Dhuumfire. Deals fairly heavy damage due to might stacking and isnt super squish.

I was either using signets or ctd with ctd ice runes, with signets strength or hoelbrek. I wasn’t using cele though although I did try it at first before switching to zerker…. I found that it worked out better in teamfights. I have whatever team Toker was playing with a run for their money. Reaper Starr.

ronpierce.2760:

For PvE just about anything works (though you would probably take SR anyways for the damage mod as a Reaper).

The net DPS gain from 20% cooldowns on Wells and the team sustain buff in the aura balance it out I think. I do think SR may be higher damage overall if the proper rotation ends up camping RS for a good while above 50% HP, though, but we’ll need to see proper numbers to confirm. Still, I don’t foresee Necromancer without Blood Magic in a raid, if they show up in raid groups at all in the first place. Vampiric Presence and Transfusion will be irreplaceable utility.

ronpierce.2760:

But in PvP, “doable” and viable/realistic is a pretty big difference. VP (or at the very least, Spectral Mastery) is essentially mandatory for surviving any focus fire, and even then it’s often not enough. Not to mention, there’s apt to be said about clunkiness of running out of Lf from degeneration, which interrupts Reaper skills.

Some considerations may have to be made further of it does go Baseline, sure, but the difference between the have and have not is too significant with just how much of our Life Force comes from that line alone. VP doubles the pool essentially when not hit, Spectral Armor is a huge boost, in addition to 15% more AND gluttony. The class would benefit from having it made baseline.

I think this is more because of the innate 15% boost to life force that SR gives, not necessarily Vital Persistence. VP is really strong, but I genuinely think that between Blighter’s Boon and Vampiric Presence you maintain strong enough sustain. I also am a real sucker for the level of game-changing support that Transfusion offers in organized groups, but that’s just in my experience.

I really think both are very viable, though, and unless the dozens of matches I had were against really bad high-MMR solo players (theoretically possible I suppose) I didn’t see a huge loss of general survivability. I think it ultimately comes down to how you play it; I certainly wasn’t running into the middle of the fray with shouts and trying to tank 3+ players at all, but I was exceptional at +1ing a point and saving downed allies.

Silverkey.2078:

As for the replacement suggestion, I think this is the right type of mechanics (loosing sustain to gain damage) to make necro balanced in PvE.

Yeah, that was what i was going for, We ARE insanely tanky even when not built for it, and that is probably why we aren’t allowed to be super DPSy atm (PVP balance and such). I think the only way to up our damage fairly is to make tradeoff traits, there are some in the game (retaliation depends on condi dpg instead of power is a simple example) and I think there should be more, because they provide a HUGE difference in builds

The closest thing i could compare it to was methamorphosis in WOW for demonology warlocks. You stack a certain force (demonic fury/life force) and when high enough, release it for,a transformation(meta/shroud) that lasts a short amount of time where you are a lot stronger. Then go out of it again and start restacking that recourse.

the noobiniser.7465:

Silverkey.2078:

As for the replacement suggestion, I think this is the right type of mechanics (loosing sustain to gain damage) to make necro balanced in PvE.

Yeah, that was what i was going for, We ARE insanely tanky even when not built for it, and that is probably why we aren’t allowed to be super DPSy atm (PVP balance and such). I think the only way to up our damage fairly is to make tradeoff traits, there are some in the game (retaliation depends on condi dpg instead of power is a simple example) and I think there should be more, because they provide a HUGE difference in builds

The closest thing i could compare it to was methamorphosis in WOW for demonology warlocks. You stack a certain force (demonic fury/life force) and when high enough, release it for,a transformation(meta/shroud) that lasts a short amount of time where you are a lot stronger. Then go out of it again and start restacking that recourse.

Yes indeed. On the other hand, one thing bugs me a little with the idea that “we are not DPSy because we are tanky” is that some of the traits seem to be designed to make this worse. For example, instead of giving us damage multipliers, we get crit chance increases. We can reach 120% crit chance without precision gear, which allows us to go for Valkyrie and get more sustain without loosing damage. So those crit chance increase our DPS if we are tanky, but not as much if we are glass cannon (where we already have high crit and just go way over cap). This is like the worst design idea ever for necromancers…

If they changed Death Perception to a 25% damage increase while in shroud, it will be as good as Death Perception for a build without crit nor ferocity, but allow full glass cannon in PvE to actually deal decent damage in shroud too!

I will have to agree with you, VP feels forced and if you’re in death shroud trait line you might as well receive this built in.

Silverkey.2078:

the noobiniser.7465:

Silverkey.2078:

As for the replacement suggestion, I think this is the right type of mechanics (loosing sustain to gain damage) to make necro balanced in PvE.

Yeah, that was what i was going for, We ARE insanely tanky even when not built for it, and that is probably why we aren’t allowed to be super DPSy atm (PVP balance and such). I think the only way to up our damage fairly is to make tradeoff traits, there are some in the game (retaliation depends on condi dpg instead of power is a simple example) and I think there should be more, because they provide a HUGE difference in builds

The closest thing i could compare it to was methamorphosis in WOW for demonology warlocks. You stack a certain force (demonic fury/life force) and when high enough, release it for,a transformation(meta/shroud) that lasts a short amount of time where you are a lot stronger. Then go out of it again and start restacking that recourse.

Yes indeed. On the other hand, one thing bugs me a little with the idea that “we are not DPSy because we are tanky” is that some of the traits seem to be designed to make this worse. For example, instead of giving us damage multipliers, we get crit chance increases. We can reach 120% crit chance without precision gear, which allows us to go for Valkyrie and get more sustain without loosing damage. So those crit chance increase our DPS if we are tanky, but not as much if we are glass cannon (where we already have high crit and just go way over cap). This is like the worst design idea ever for necromancers…

If they changed Death Perception to a 25% damage increase while in shroud, it will be as good as Death Perception for a build without crit nor ferocity, but allow full glass cannon in PvE to actually deal decent damage in shroud too!

Hmm, I do not agree, i don’t think it is a bad thing, on the opposite, it is a very good one. Say we get power/ferocity/condi damage gear, only we would be able to Use it to it’s fullest, whilst not losing any crit chance if you still take enough berserker gear. Also, if we were playing a tanky build with full valkyrie or even soldiers, we will still do quite nice DPS, it will be one of our best points i think.

I think it’s fine the way it is. There are people that already don’t take vital persistence and they swear it works fine. I personally always take it, plus I do like other traits in soul reaping, such as Death Perception, or even Dhuumfire is now a viable and in some cases preferred choice for Reapers. I’d much rather they don’t mess up balance, or start chopping things elsewhere in exchange for giving us vital persistence baseline.

Balance is a touchy thing. I kind of like where Reaper is at currently. Obviously Death Shroud is the weaker of the two forms, and I do believe baseline necro could use some help.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Really that is your biggest concern?

Fine, increase Recharge aspect From 15 to 20%.

Kind of wished they made the DS recharge skills trait 20% to begin with. Just seems odd with all the 20% standard reductions, Necro DS has 15%. This also includes the old Dagger Mastery trait which was also 15% before the trait revamp.

If the degen-reduction from vital persistence did become base line heres what I would do:

Move speed of shadows up and merge it with the other half of VP so you now have an all in one trait for death shroud cooldown reduction at the master trait level.

Then add a new adept trait:
Unforgiving assault: Increases damage against blinded foes. (20% increase)

This would be a mirror of the guardian’s unscathed contender trait. And would incentivize necros to use well of darkness.

Blue Jinjo.2603:

If the degen-reduction from vital persistence did become base line heres what I would do:

Move speed of shadows up and merge it with the other half of VP so you now have an all in one trait for death shroud cooldown reduction at the master trait level.

Then add a new adept trait:
Unforgiving assault: Increases damage against blinded foes. (20% increase)

This would be a mirror of the guardian’s unscathed contender trait. And would incentivize necros to use well of darkness.

I think it would suck for PVE use, since bosses don’t actually get blinded, to add a pure dps increase trait without having it working on PVE bosses would suck, HARD. Also, doesn’t increase the use of our class mechanic, which I was going for.

Well it would suck against bosses with a break bar, sure. But I doubt every single boss in future content will have a break bar. Which means against bosses that allow you to blind it, it becomes a 20% damage increase with the use of smoke wall (thief) or well of darkness. And if Anet does decide to give every trash-mob veteran and their raid-boss master(s) a break bar I think I might just quit the game.

Blue Jinjo.2603:

Well it would suck against bosses with a break bar, sure. But I doubt every single boss in future content will have a break bar. Which means against bosses that allow you to blind it, it becomes a 20% damage increase with the use of smoke wall (thief) or well of darkness. And if Anet does decide to give every trash-mob veteran and their raid-boss master(s) a break bar I think I might just quit the game.

Well, things that are perma blinded are basicly just boring since you never have to dodge, you know?

the noobiniser.7465:

Blue Jinjo.2603:

Well it would suck against bosses with a break bar, sure. But I doubt every single boss in future content will have a break bar. Which means against bosses that allow you to blind it, it becomes a 20% damage increase with the use of smoke wall (thief) or well of darkness. And if Anet does decide to give every trash-mob veteran and their raid-boss master(s) a break bar I think I might just quit the game.

Well, things that are perma blinded are basicly just boring since you never have to dodge, you know?

Maybe for trash mobs. but those die pretty quickly anyways. as for bosses see:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unshakable
blindness is applied normally but its effect is only 10% as strong as it normally is (the boss still has a 90% chance to hit) so you would still have to dodge their attacks. Thus applying blind would actually be meaningful on said bosses since it gives you a damage increase, despite not fully debuffing the boss.

I disagree that the decreased life decay should be baseline.

Maybe take some of the decreased decay and make it baseline.

20% baseline. 30% more if traited.

Id go a step further in that both vital persistence and soul marks are pretty much mandatory for me. The only time I have ever been able to use a build without VP is spectral mastery and atleast 2 spectral utilites.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Id go a step further in that both vital persistence and soul marks are pretty much mandatory for me. The only time I have ever been able to use a build without VP is spectral mastery and atleast 2 spectral utilites.

I think a lot of people who run competitive PVP builds would say the same. Unfortunately, something would have to give somewhere else though if this were the case, like slightly less LF pool, and at the very least, definitely a nerf to Spectral Mastery.

I think some people are afraid of change, but change is exactly what Necromancer needs. At some point, something is going to have to give for the sake of competitive diversity and the Necromancer feeling more fun overall, but there are always consequences to change, too.

Either way. I’m just excited to see what Gee is planning to do in terms of base Necro enhancements before I get too hot on the subject, but so far, from my experience, VP is a huge damper on Reaper diversity and it needs all the LF it can maintain for PVP, trying to stand toe-to-toe.

As for soul marks, personally, I’ve said this for a very long time. Life force is part of what makes it feel like a utility weapon and the Auto is vastly unreliable. Unfortunately that would leave Soul Marks with the question of “do you add something else, or leave it as unblockable”? But in my opinion, being an adapt, I’d be fine with it just making all marks unblockable.

I just worry about making Necromancers too tanky. I’m at a cross between preventing ALL necros from being too tanky, and trying to still maintain some diversity and better mechanic handling for the class.

I was going to make a topic about LF but I think I might as well just dump it here.

I think we all agree LF has some problems and it can be serious in some situation.

I am not going to suggest something that will fix everything because that is not possible. But I am suggesting a fix to the core fundamental of LF that Necro and also the other classes have been dealing with until now. In some situation Necro starts the fight with 0% LF but in other situation Necro starts the fight with 100% LF. The first situation does not favour Necro in anyway but in the second situation where Necro starts with 100% LF this makes it seems like Necro is a broken class. I can say more but telling the same story again and again does nothing.

My suggestion:

• Necro should regenerate LF to 20% when out of combat at the rate of 2% per sec.
• If a Necro has more than 20% when out of combat he will degenerate back to 20% at the same speed of 2% per sec.
  (Just to be sure, this only work out side of combat which mean this won’t change anything in combat)

Why should we go with this?
It is for the balance purpose on both side of the coin. No Necro want to start the fight with 0% LF and nobody want to fight a Necro with 100% LF either.

This lead me to my second concern and suggestion:

The losing of LF in Shroud, at the normal rate it is draining 4% LF per sec in Shroud. I think I am losing my LF in Shroud way faster than I can build out side of Shroud. This leads to people wanting Vital Persistence in every of their builds. Right now without Vital Persistence, if you want to fully casts Dark Path you will need to spend at least 8% of your LF just to casts this one skill and quickly ends your Shroud. This does not account any damage you take while doing so. So yes, in general, Dark Path costs me 8% LF to casts while thinking LF is my second heal bar. I firmly believe that sound a bit pricey to me.

My suggestion:

• While in Shroud, LF should drain at the speed of 3% per sec. Vital Persistence will only decrease degeneration by 33% which still leads to what it does now 2% per sec.
• LF will not drain at the first second after Necro enter Shroud. This would mean the first second does not count and you will start seeing your LF drains only after 2 seconds after entering Shroud. LF is still draining every second but this will save you 1sec or 3% LF for every time you enter Shroud.

I’d honestly say remove the trait and make only half of it’s benefit baseline. Then give soul reaping another trait that boosts death shroud sustainability like:
(new) vital persistence: increase the bonus life force from vitality by 25%.
This would make death shroud beefier but not necessarily last longer, so it wouldn’t stack obscenely with other traits that extend deathshroud duration (unholy martyr for example).

Siva Mira.3546:

I was going to make a topic about LF but I think I might as well just dump it here.

I think we all agree LF has some problems and it can be serious in some situation.

I am not going to suggest something that will fix everything because that is not possible. But I am suggesting a fix to the core fundamental of LF that Necro and also the other classes have been dealing with until now. In some situation Necro starts the fight with 0% LF but in other situation Necro starts the fight with 100% LF. The first situation does not favour Necro in anyway but in the second situation where Necro starts with 100% LF this makes it seems like Necro is a broken class. I can say more but telling the same story again and again does nothing.

My suggestion:

• Necro should regenerate LF to 20% when out of combat at the rate of 2% per sec.
• If a Necro has more than 20% when out of combat he will degenerate back to 20% at the same speed of 2% per sec.
  (Just to be sure, this only work out side of combat which mean this won’t change anything in combat)

Why should we go with this?
It is for the balance purpose on both side of the coin. No Necro want to start the fight with 0% LF and nobody want to fight a Necro with 100% LF either.

This lead me to my second concern and suggestion:

The losing of LF in Shroud, at the normal rate it is draining 4% LF per sec in Shroud. I think I am losing my LF in Shroud way faster than I can build out side of Shroud. This leads to people wanting Vital Persistence in every of their builds. Right now without Vital Persistence, if you want to fully casts Dark Path you will need to spend at least 8% of your LF just to casts this one skill and quickly ends your Shroud. This does not account any damage you take while doing so. So yes, in general, Dark Path costs me 8% LF to casts while thinking LF is my second heal bar. I firmly believe that sound a bit pricey to me.

My suggestion:

• While in Shroud, LF should drain at the speed of 3% per sec. Vital Persistence will only decrease degeneration by 33% which still leads to what it does now 2% per sec.
• LF will not drain at the first second after Necro enter Shroud. This would mean the first second does not count and you will start seeing your LF drains only after 2 seconds after entering Shroud. LF is still draining every second but this will save you 1sec or 3% LF for every time you enter Shroud.

Don’t say it in percentages, I need my vitality on my valkyrie to do something usefull!

striker.3704:

I’d honestly say remove the trait and make only half of it’s benefit baseline. Then give soul reaping another trait that boosts death shroud sustainability like:
(new) vital persistence: increase the bonus life force from vitality by 25%.
This would make death shroud beefier but not necessarily last longer, so it wouldn’t stack obscenely with other traits that extend deathshroud duration (unholy martyr for example).

Cool idea, I wouldn’t mind this, but it would only make us more tanky then we already are, I’d like some ideas to make it less tanky, more bursty. Or would you not like this?

I would love it if they made this, and soul marks baseline. I’d be willing to give up any amount of health or DS amount, chill of death, some of our might stacking, or plague sending for it. Similarly, I’d be willing to give up any of those things for the ability to use utilities in shroud, swap weapons in shroud, and get 100% healing in shroud. On a related side note, I think spectral walk and armor need to be changed to function better at surviving in teamfights. Something like:
Spectral Armor: become invulnerable, turning all damage taken into LF for 3(5) seconds. 60(48) second cd.

Spectral Walk: Begin a spectral walk with a 6(9) second duration, breaking stun and becoming immune to movement impairing conditions while gaining vigor for 15(22.5) seconds, and swiftness for 20(30) seconds. 60(48) second cd
Spectral Recall: Teleport back to the beginning of the Spectral Walk, breaking stun.

Or make it a targeted port
Spectral Walk: Teleport to your target, gaining swiftness 30(45), breaking stun, and starting a spectral walk (1200 range).
Spectral Recall: Teleport back to the beginning of the walk.