Guild Wars 2

? is arena net really that scared that if they made the gs swings as fast as the gs for warriors rangers guardians that necros would some how become op over night ? i just dont get it . the thing swings as slow as a 2h hammer .

The point, I think, is to give opponents more time to dodge or counter.

Do more damage, swing slower. It all evens out in the end.

Graphics/theme/looks/role play etc.

“Chill will be enough”-Devs-

Anchoku.8142:

The point, I think, is to give opponents more time to dodge or counter.

it’s not like other classes have a billion counters already . with the blocking and evading because they have access to vigor or the mere fact 3 of the classes in the game practically are not even effected , warriors eles and thieves , this is just silly .

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do more damage, swing slower. It all evens out in the end.

Maybe for pve, not the case in pvp mi amigo.

NeXeD.3042:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do more damage, swing slower. It all evens out in the end.

Maybe for pve, not the case in pvp mi amigo.

Which is the reason why just using dagger #1 = becoming the most amazing loco-killer-ninja-slayer..

I really do see how the speed is more relevant than the dmg being done, truly.

I really hope they are planning to nerf those numbers. I saw that rivaled a traited warrior GS damage. If course the numbers once again aren’t final, which kinda sucks.

CodeHavoc.7926:

I really hope they are planning to nerf those numbers. I saw that rivaled a traited warrior GS damage. If course the numbers once again aren’t final, which kinda sucks.

? it would nerf they Why

(Why would they nerf it?)

Yeah, I know from fighting really good thieves as a power necro that they are able to blind or dodge a good amount of the lifeblasts while attacking you. When attacks are that slow or that obvious, even if they are very powerful, good players can dodge it when they pay attention.

I feel that with the new reaper shroud and all it can inherit from vanilla traits more than makes up for a slow aa. Also, the GS has a point blank aoe blind… which you can make chill… which you can make deal damage.

If only we have something like judge intervention to pre-cast its skill 2….

Also think its slower cause reaper shroud is a lot faster of a swinger. Its auto is as fast as dagger auto when traited.

Guardian Hammer considered one of the slowest Weapons in game, yet ppl still get hit by it all the time. JI + RoW Combo followed up by Mighty Blows for 6k. I really dont get ppl’s issue with GS being slow, its not like u gonna miss miss miss and miss… The potential of dmg from GS is the highest we have, even gonna be higher then Reaper Shroud and current lich Form so yea if we also had faster weapon cast time, we get Nerfed instantly.

I like the dmg potential and I look forward to try and land my skills… and Gravedigger combo’s

Grave digger is essentially an aoe backstab.

Its because they don’t like button mashers. GS1 is strong enough with damage and chills so it could easily be “press button 1 until opponent dies” if it was much faster. With skilled play you can trap or set up your target to get GS1 off combo it til you apply your chills and then finish with Gravedigger. It takes skill. Skilled opponents should be able to dodge, its called balance. Then the best player wins not the best class.

Ravezaar.4951:

Guardian Hammer considered one of the slowest Weapons in game, yet ppl still get hit by it all the time. JI + RoW Combo followed up by Mighty Blows for 6k. I really dont get ppl’s issue with GS being slow, its not like u gonna miss miss miss and miss… The potential of dmg from GS is the highest we have, even gonna be higher then Reaper Shroud and current lich Form so yea if we also had faster weapon cast time, we get Nerfed instantly.

I like the dmg potential and I look forward to try and land my skills… and Gravedigger combo’s

Your argument is flawed for several reasons.

1. The medi guard comparison is a bad comparison. Guardians have an instant cast gap closer and literal ring that makes you eat their slow attacks. The reaper will not have that. They will have a mid range pull and chill to help things land, but that still isn’t as strong as the guardian method because the pull can be stopped more easily by stun breaks and stability, and the chill that does land can be easily cleansed if the current cleanse heavy meta continues. Still the tools the reaper will have will hardly be enough to lock an opponent down long enough to land their attacks in a reasonable timeframe for the conquest game mode.

2. We don’t know how well the Reaper Shroud and GS attacks scale with power yet (we don’t know their coefficients). Based on the video though the last strike of the RS auto dealt much more damage than the GS auto, while the first two strikes of the GS auto did more than the RS auto. The differences were pretty similar. Given that the RS auto is much faster, I could see it easily outDPS the GS auto as long as it scales well with power. Additionally Soul Spiral and Death’s Scythe (below 50 or 25%) in RS are shown to do much more damage from those individual skills than gravedigger does as a burst skill.

3. I can guarantee that the GS won’t have higher damage than lich form. That is simply absurd to even say.

4. The GS life force generation is dependent on having multiple targets to land it on, making it much less reliable than dagger or traited staff.

5. When you attack that slow, opponents with a lot of blinds and blocks will simply shut you down, which gives huge priority to faster attacks considering how common blinds and blocks are in the current meta, and how they’ll be even greater in the future. For example a D/P theif will keep you blinded the whole time while dodging anything with an obvious animation. Shatter mesmers in the future will be able to blind you with each shatter and kite/teleport enough to keep all your GS skills from ever hitting. I’ve had current D/P thieves have enough blind and evasion to solo burst me from full death shroud and lich form to never land a lich or DS auto.

Now I do think the GS will be great in PvE and frontline WvW. Just in skirmish type PvP, it won’t have the tools to really compete over a faster weaponset.

nearlight.3064:

4. The GS currently only has LF generation on the pull skill. That is not enough, unless you consistently pull 3 targets, which proabably won’t happen, so you’ll need either dagger or staff with soul marks to keep up.

GS3 provides 2% life force per hit, hitting up to 3 targets 6 times each on a 10 second cooldown. 12%/target, max of 36%

GS5 provides 4% life force hit, hitting up to 5 targets. 4%/target, max of 20%.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

nearlight.3064:

4. The GS currently only has LF generation on the pull skill. That is not enough, unless you consistently pull 3 targets, which proabably won’t happen, so you’ll need either dagger or staff with soul marks to keep up.

GS3 provides 2% life force per hit, hitting up to 3 targets 6 times each on a 10 second cooldown. 12%/target, max of 36%

GS5 provides 4% life force hit, hitting up to 5 targets. 4%/target, max of 20%.

I see my mistake and have edited my post. I was in too much of an internet range to read correctly.

nearlight.3064:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

nearlight.3064:

4. The GS currently only has LF generation on the pull skill. That is not enough, unless you consistently pull 3 targets, which proabably won’t happen, so you’ll need either dagger or staff with soul marks to keep up.

GS3 provides 2% life force per hit, hitting up to 3 targets 6 times each on a 10 second cooldown. 12%/target, max of 36%

GS5 provides 4% life force hit, hitting up to 5 targets. 4%/target, max of 20%.

I see my mistake and have edited my post. I was in too much of an internet range to read correctly.

Still 12% for a single target on a 10 second cooldown, which works out to be a bit faster (.25 seconds faster) than Axe 2 with identical life force gain. Less damage, though.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

nearlight.3064:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

nearlight.3064:

4. The GS currently only has LF generation on the pull skill. That is not enough, unless you consistently pull 3 targets, which proabably won’t happen, so you’ll need either dagger or staff with soul marks to keep up.

GS3 provides 2% life force per hit, hitting up to 3 targets 6 times each on a 10 second cooldown. 12%/target, max of 36%

GS5 provides 4% life force hit, hitting up to 5 targets. 4%/target, max of 20%.

I see my mistake and have edited my post. I was in too much of an internet range to read correctly.

Still 12% for a single target on a 10 second cooldown, which works out to be a bit faster (.25 seconds faster) than Axe 2 with identical life force gain. Less damage, though.

yes thats true. But still if you miss, the enemy invulns or dodges or misses some of the hits, just like with axe 2, you can literally be screwed out of that life force. Maybe I’m spoiled by the dagger autos, but I still don’t find the GS LF generation to be that reliable in comparison.

2. We don’t know how well the Reaper Shroud and GS attacks scale with power yet (we don’t know their coefficients). Based on the video though the last strike of the RS auto dealt much more damage than the GS auto, while the first two strikes of the GS auto did more than the RS auto. The differences were pretty similar. Given that the RS auto is much faster, I could see it easily outDPS the GS auto as long as it scales well with power. Additionally Soul Spiral and Death’s Scythe (below 50 or 25%) in RS are shown to do much more damage from those individual skills than gravedigger does as a burst skill.

From what we seen in the video and what we know in game we can figure them out cause we know how damage in calculated. BiP is shown doing 275 damage in the video which is 1951 power, GS weapon strength is pvp is 1047.5, tool time damage goes of heavy armour which is 2600. Doing the math you get something like :
GS

1. Auto Chain : 0.8,0.8,1
2. Grave Digger : 1.9
3. Death Spiral : 0.9
4. Nightfall : 0.7 Per tick
5. Reapers Grasp : 1

RS

1. Auto Chain : 0.6, 0.6, 1.2
2. Death Charge : 1
3. Infusing Terror : 0
4. Soul Spiral : 2.7
5. Executioners Scythe : >50% 1.5, < 50% 1.9 , <25% 2.4

3. I can guarantee that the GS won’t have higher damage than lich form. That is simply absurd to even say.

Grave digger has the same coeff as Deathly Claws of Lich form but is a 170 radius 5 target aoe. It will be better to cleave things down with since it will refresh on hitting a downed target. It doesnt have range or cast as fast though.

GS auto chain takes around 2.9s and Reaper Shroud Auto chain takes around 2.5s. Not that slow. Blinds can be easily dealt with using war-horn or even wells + the new nightfall. Going toe to toe with a reaper wouldnt be recommended considering the combos you can pull. They should be easily kited though.

and the chill that does land can be easily cleansed if the current cleanse heavy meta continues

Chill is a relatively sparse condi in the game at the moment but it has a huge enough impact to force condi removal. If you force someone to use a cooldown to deal with the chill you can put out constantly without effort then its actually a win for you.

yes thats true. But still if you miss, the enemy invulns or dodges or misses some of the hits, just like with axe 2, you can literally be screwed out of that life force. Maybe I’m spoiled by the dagger autos, but I still don’t find the GS LF generation to be that reliable in comparison.

That may be true but when you consider how many ways a reaper can generate an insane amount of life force it isnt to much of a bother.

@nearlight

1. I said Guardian HAMMMER, not medi guard as a whole. I talked about weapon speed NOT class movement.

2.We actually know quite abit about Dmg form GS from tooltip and cooments made by Anet after there Reaper presentation. Going by that it will have HIGH dmg on average, and considering GS on all other classes it even more clear since its usually high dmg overall.

3. GS Gravedigger rotation with trait will have higher dps out put then anything else we currently have, includeing Reaper Shroud. Absurd ? maybe u should check again. This is actually stated by several ppl on Forum already.

4. Reaper Shroud AA will genearate LF no matter how many it hits just more LF for more targets.

5. You know how Blind works right ? if u have Stability for ex. ? yea a Reaper has 8-10 Stab every 16sec with trait, and he dosent have to be in Reaper Shroud to use it just pop in hit#3 and its there, this combined with Relentless Pursuit and say melandru Runes will create issues for CC heavy classes like no tomorrow.

Also btw the Thief cant steal and remove my Stability, it kepps pulsating for 8sec (10sec+ with Boon adds) so much for that DP blind….

Id say it again, the slow weapon skills on GS (Reaper Shroud is actually quite fast) wont be an issue once a good necro had some practice. a Thief ? you better hope they get something in there Elite Spez to counter a Reaper, blind wont.

plz come again

nearlight.3064:

yes thats true. But still if you miss, the enemy invulns or dodges or misses some of the hits, just like with axe 2, you can literally be screwed out of that life force. Maybe I’m spoiled by the dagger autos, but I still don’t find the GS LF generation to be that reliable in comparison.

Are you talking pve? Because where else would you be able to build up considerable amounts of lf with dagger auto? Only reliable way for dagger lf gen is AA’ing downed people, usually after a fight is over.

Reliable LF gen is staff with traited soul marks or spec armor for burst lf gen. Everything else is not consistent enough. Dagger gets kited/dodged. Who, except mb warrior, would facetank dagger hits?

GS might be slow but atleast it is slow on offense, meaning out of death shroud, where you’ll be when you don’t take a beating.
Thing is, in contrast to DS and super slow LB, RS auto is pretty fast. This, coupled with utility in RS, might be enough to enable necro defense mode (shroud) to apply significant amounts of counterpressure, which is lackluster in current DS design.

@Sigmoid, you seem nice so I have nothing to say. Hopefully my story will at least earn me your sympathy if nothing else.

@Ravezaar, no need to kick me while I’m down I suppose. I’m sorry I tried to combat your argument. I feel like a fool in many different ways that are psychologically destructive right now.

This is off-topic, but I need to explain why I’m so against the greatsword. The only reason why I’m so against the greatsword is because last summer I grinded for months to make the legendary warhorn, a task that drove me to the brink of insanity. For essentially personal reasons I can’t stand the thought of not using that weapon on a build because I put so much time into it because I care that much about how my character looks. I have a personal bias against the Reaper GS for this reason alone. You can’t possibly take GS and dagger warhorn since you’ll lose the staffs ranged pressure and be forced into melee where mesemrs will kite you for days. If GS becomes the new meta weapon for Necromancer as you all say then I will be really upset because the time I put into my necromancer will have essentially have been wasted. All I ever wanted to do was to justify that keeping my weaponset with reaper over greatsword just so I can feel like I didn’t regret my past decision, but I’m wrong, you win.

I’d give anything to go back in time and not make that weapon. Its driving me insane becuase it means so much to me and I won’t be able to use it because of the kitten greatsword being so great at everything. Sure this is great for the necromancer class as a whole, but for me, its tearing me up inside. I just want you to understand where I’m coming from, and have fun with your greatsword. I guess just stick to mesmer now and maybe revenant in the future and try to forget all the wasted time I put into maining a necromancer last summer.

Dagger horn has advantages over GS as does GS over dagger horn. They fill similar roles albeit slightly differently.

There are things it can do that GS cant and vica versa. You can even take both if your team has someone who can deal with kiters for you because staff is…..well….yeah not the greatest to write home about. I get your worries though but it will still be totally viable your hard crafted weapon.

Sigmoid.7082:

Dagger horn has advantages over GS as does GS over dagger horn. They fill similar roles albeit slightly differently.

There are things it can do that GS cant and vica versa. You can even take both if your team has someone who can deal with kiters for you because staff is…..well….yeah not the greatest to write home about. I get your worries though but it will still be totally viable your hard crafted weapon.

Thanks. Its just the way you guys are talking about it makes it seem like GS will be the new necromancer meta. I mean its not guaranteed or anything, but still, I don’t want ot bring my team down because I don’t fit in with the best build for my class. And with losing lifeblast for an all around better version of death shroud for a power build, I still feel that losing that range is a bad thing when going into melee in teamfights can get you focused and taken out completely.

It just makes me upset inside because so much of GW2 is grindy and aesthetic, and I need to balance that with the fun I get from pvp.

I still feel that losing that range is a bad thing when going into melee in teamfights can get you focused and taken out completely.

This is wear reaper actually shines best is in the middle of a team fight because of all the cleave, Aoes and the lf generation from hitting people or health regen from boons from your party. Plus they have so much stab that thy cant be locked down as easy which is why they were #1 target. Should be fun seeing how things change but it will be totally fine regardless of what weapon you use since you will spend alot of time in shroud.

Dagger should also be better for siphon builds which are getting a boost since bloodmagic got a HUGE rework

Sigmoid.7082:

Dagger should also be better for siphon builds which are getting a boost since bloodmagic got a HUGE rework

I will only try a blood magic necro is it really does prove to be viable enough to fulfill a sustain/bunker role in pvp, which I really hope it does. I’m not sure if it was posted here, but apparently the blood magic traits have changed a lot from when they were first shown (based on a twitch comment yesterday by colin johansen saying that elemental attunement for ele would be a minor trait for them, he also mentioned that blood magic and inspiration and some engi traits have been changed a lot as well so they would show them again at some point).

If that can’t be achieved then I’ll just finally switch to mesmer/chronomancer and move on from this experience. On the other hand if Ele or Rev somehow got WH for an elite spec I would be extremely overjoyed, but thats probably not going to happen.

nearlight.3064:

@Sigmoid, you seem nice so I have nothing to say. Hopefully my story will at least earn me your sympathy if nothing else.

@Ravezaar, no need to kick me while I’m down I suppose. I’m sorry I tried to combat your argument. I feel like a fool in many different ways that are psychologically destructive right now.

This is off-topic, but I need to explain why I’m so against the greatsword. The only reason why I’m so against the greatsword is because last summer I grinded for months to make the legendary warhorn, a task that drove me to the brink of insanity. For essentially personal reasons I can’t stand the thought of not using that weapon on a build because I put so much time into it because I care that much about how my character looks. I have a personal bias against the Reaper GS for this reason alone. You can’t possibly take GS and dagger warhorn since you’ll lose the staffs ranged pressure and be forced into melee where mesemrs will kite you for days. If GS becomes the new meta weapon for Necromancer as you all say then I will be really upset because the time I put into my necromancer will have essentially have been wasted. All I ever wanted to do was to justify that keeping my weaponset with reaper over greatsword just so I can feel like I didn’t regret my past decision, but I’m wrong, you win.

I’d give anything to go back in time and not make that weapon. Its driving me insane becuase it means so much to me and I won’t be able to use it because of the kitten greatsword being so great at everything. Sure this is great for the necromancer class as a whole, but for me, its tearing me up inside. I just want you to understand where I’m coming from, and have fun with your greatsword. I guess just stick to mesmer now and maybe revenant in the future and try to forget all the wasted time I put into maining a necromancer last summer.

I never kicking anyone when they are down, and alot of ppl wont like the GS. Take all the Condi Necs as ex. Tho I see great potential in a burst+cleave weapon and that its Melee is even sweeter, I was afraid first we were gonna get like the mesmer GS.

Ravezaar.4951:

nearlight.3064:

@Sigmoid, you seem nice so I have nothing to say. Hopefully my story will at least earn me your sympathy if nothing else.

@Ravezaar, no need to kick me while I’m down I suppose. I’m sorry I tried to combat your argument. I feel like a fool in many different ways that are psychologically destructive right now.

This is off-topic, but I need to explain why I’m so against the greatsword. The only reason why I’m so against the greatsword is because last summer I grinded for months to make the legendary warhorn, a task that drove me to the brink of insanity. For essentially personal reasons I can’t stand the thought of not using that weapon on a build because I put so much time into it because I care that much about how my character looks. I have a personal bias against the Reaper GS for this reason alone. You can’t possibly take GS and dagger warhorn since you’ll lose the staffs ranged pressure and be forced into melee where mesemrs will kite you for days. If GS becomes the new meta weapon for Necromancer as you all say then I will be really upset because the time I put into my necromancer will have essentially have been wasted. All I ever wanted to do was to justify that keeping my weaponset with reaper over greatsword just so I can feel like I didn’t regret my past decision, but I’m wrong, you win.

I’d give anything to go back in time and not make that weapon. Its driving me insane becuase it means so much to me and I won’t be able to use it because of the kitten greatsword being so great at everything. Sure this is great for the necromancer class as a whole, but for me, its tearing me up inside. I just want you to understand where I’m coming from, and have fun with your greatsword. I guess just stick to mesmer now and maybe revenant in the future and try to forget all the wasted time I put into maining a necromancer last summer.

I never kicking anyone when they are down, and alot of ppl wont like the GS. Take all the Condi Necs as ex. Tho I see great potential in a burst+cleave weapon and that its Melee is even sweeter, I was afraid first we were gonna get like the mesmer GS.

Hahaha the mesmer GS is one of my favorite weapons in the game. But yeah I feel better now. I think a condition reaper with scepter/x and staff and curses, soul reaping, and reaper could be really strong and I’m totally interested in playing it, but that will mostly depend on what happens to the meta as a whole. With shoutbows and cele els on every team passively cleaseing most conditions, its just not viable right now, as proven by top necros like noscoc switching to power/zerker, but hopefully with the changes to condition stacking and hopefully making cleasing more active rather than passive, then it will get a chance to work.

I got bored and made a spread sheet that takes vuln, might, target armour, rune % damage bonus, trait % damage bonus, crit % damage bonus and a few other things into account to get out some damage numbers on the skills.

Average 12 might and 12 vuln ( these are easy for a reaper) you are looking at somewhere around, depending on armour and crits:

• 2~4k GS autos
• 2~7.5k grave diggers
• 1~3k Death Spirals
• 1~2.7k Nightfall ticks
• 2~4k Reapers Grasps
• 1~4.5k RS autos
• 2 ~4k Death Charges
• 4~10k Soul Spirals
• 3~9k

About that Greatsword, I have mixed feelings. It can be great, but at least for PvP, looks situational.

The main thing that interests me now about Necro is how they’re doing with Blood Magic rework. Jon Peters said on twitch that it already got significant changes. I wonder if it will be good enough to compete with Death Magic for Condition Necromancer in next patch and if it still relies on fast hits on multiple foes to get any effect.

The point of making greatsword slow was to put big fat damage modifiers on everything, and make it large risk even larger reward gameplay as far as I can tell. To explain, I will introduce two concepts. One is called pure effectiveness and the other is called realistic effectiveness. Pure effectiveness is a measure of how strong a skill is assuming it gets used in the most optimal way (hits 5 targets, allies all standing in healing rings, etc). Realistic effectiveness is a measure of how strong a skill is taking into account all variables like cast time, number of targets required to meet peak damage, how often the skill lands, etc. In a perfect game, every single skill’s realistic effectiveness, or at least the mean of all skills realistic effectiveness on a given class would be the same.

What anet wants to do with reaper is give a very large pure effectiveness, while having the same realistic effectiveness against human players. This isn’t as simple as it may seem because the relationship between relative effectiveness and pure effectiveness will be pretty complicated (also the actual measure of effectiveness could be complicated). What all this tells us is that a skill with a 1 second cast needs to have more than double the effectiveness of a skill with a half second cast because the half second cast skill has less risk. Thus, you get slow cast time skills with huge pure effectiveness, but the same realistic effectiveness and you’ve brought diversity in the amount of risk reward for all builds, while maintaining balance.

Note: Not saying Anet does it this way, but it gets the point across.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do more damage, swing slower. It all evens out in the end.

rapid fire counters this argument.

I forgot to say " big bad cool heavy slow damage boss" like a PvE boss.

Abbehemoth.2471:

CodeHavoc.7926:

I really hope they are planning to nerf those numbers. I saw that rivaled a traited warrior GS damage. If course the numbers once again aren’t final, which kinda sucks.

? it would nerf they Why

(Why would they nerf it?)

Edit: I hope they DON’T nerf it. That’s what I get for posting on a forum at 3 am. Any way, like I said before the numbers aren’t final but they are stable for now.

slow weapon – gives every class a chance to get away from us, because the necro in its current state is so difficult to get away from (sarcasm off)

perhaps the implementation of chill within the reaper class needs a slow weapon so we don’t lock down 5 people all the time. That said, im not seeing dmg coefficients that exceeds that which other two-handed weapons possess. So, not sure what is going through. I hope it will be big payoffs, and not, chincy numbers above what the guard/warrior/ranger gs can do.

Guards doing 2.8 total coeff per auto chain, Warriors do 2.3, Ranger does 1.65 but has a pet. Necros does 2.6 so its comparaple but out is the only one with a condi on it at 4s of chill. With some duration thats much longer so i guess it balances out.
Auto speed is about :
Guard : 2.4s
Ranger : 2.5s
Warrior : 2.4s
Necro: 2.8s

Our GS is directly modeled after the guards since we got shouts as well. For those all the coeffs again are comparable.
#1:- 2.6 with chill vs 2.8 with might
#2:- 2 vs 2.8
#3:- 1 vs 1.1
#4:- 2.8 vs 2.75
#5:- 1 vs 1

Its when your targets are below 50% hp that the necro gs puls ahead because of Grave digger spam. It takes about 1.6s to cast including after cast. Meaning its 6x better than Guard #2 and 3x better than Warrior #2 as well as 30% more range that the two of them. It should be far more effective at cleaving targets down.

Sigmoid.7082:

Guards doing 2.8 total coeff per auto chain, Warriors do 2.3, Ranger does 1.65 but has a pet. Necros does 2.6 so its comparaple but out is the only one with a condi on it at 4s of chill. With some duration thats much longer so i guess it balances out.
Auto speed is about :
Guard : 2.4s
Ranger : 2.5s
Warrior : 2.4s
Necro: 2.8s

Our GS is directly modeled after the guards since we got shouts as well. For those all the coeffs again are comparable.
#1:- 2.6 with chill vs 2.8 with might
#2:- 2 vs 2.8
#3:- 1 vs 1.1
#4:- 2.8 vs 2.75
#5:- 1 vs 1

Its when your targets are below 50% hp that the necro gs puls ahead because of Grave digger spam. It takes about 1.6s to cast including after cast. Meaning its 6x better than Guard #2 and 3x better than Warrior #2 as well as 30% more range that the two of them. It should be far more effective at cleaving targets down.

Isn’t dagger auto attack more efficient then Grave digger spam (2.8 per 2.1s vs 2 per 1.6)?

Depends on number of targets. For every 10 auto chains you will do 13 Grave Diggers So thats 28 VS 26 About 7% better on 1~2 targets. 2+ GD wins hands down. Also better for cleaving downed bodies since NF+GD spam is pretty huge damage.

Abbehemoth.2471:

NeXeD.3042:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do more damage, swing slower. It all evens out in the end.

Maybe for pve, not the case in pvp mi amigo.

Which is the reason why just using dagger #1 = becoming the most amazing loco-killer-ninja-slayer..

I really do see how the speed is more relevant than the dmg being done, truly.

The daggers hit more often, procs rule pvp, if gs attack is slow people will dodge or avoid more often. In pve you stack and kill monsters.

NeXeD.3042:

Abbehemoth.2471:

NeXeD.3042:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do more damage, swing slower. It all evens out in the end.

Maybe for pve, not the case in pvp mi amigo.

Which is the reason why just using dagger #1 = becoming the most amazing loco-killer-ninja-slayer..

I really do see how the speed is more relevant than the dmg being done, truly.

The daggers hit more often, procs rule pvp, if gs attack is slow people will dodge or avoid more often. In pve you stack and kill monsters.

Be surprised if they left a lot of sigils where they are. I hope everything goes the way of Feline Grace.

I’m a fan of both thief and necro, but gotta ask…

How often will reaper have access to stability? Can’t a thief wait it out?

Supposing thief does get some form of sniper specialization…

Kury.8210:

I’m a fan of both thief and necro, but gotta ask…

How often will reaper have access to stability? Can’t a thief wait it out?

Supposing thief does get some form of sniper specialization…

As it currently is its either 11/28s or 11/25s with no boon duration and depending on if you have path of midnight or not. So 40~44% uptime on it. Its also currently an instant cast, same as doom so you can get the armour mid casting other skills/res/stomp…iirc doom can be cast when stunned so maybe it also has that as well. The fear part of the skill has a cast time though.

@Sigmoid: It is also a shroud skill, correct? Admittedly thinking more 1v1. Thief would probably be the hardest class to get life force out of.

Also it’s not terribly long, but the moment stability is no longer pulsing is the moment thief can daze. Ofc doesn’t change that pulsing stability is very nice. Can’t wait to try it out.

Kury.8210:

@Sigmoid: It is also a shroud skill, correct? Admittedly thinking more 1v1. Thief would probably be the hardest class to get life force out of.

Also it’s not terribly long, but the moment stability is no longer pulsing is the moment thief can daze. Ofc doesn’t change that pulsing stability is very nice. Can’t wait to try it out.

Eh, Necro has some decent anti-thief capabilities already. Persistent AoE like Locust Swarm, wells, Nightfall, Soul Spiral/Harvest Life (Can’t remember the name right now…)

Marks to see where they are in stealth and blow up/force them out of Shadow Refuge. I’m not saying necro eats thieves, far from it, but I don’t think we’ll be anymore helpless as a reaper than we are now. So!

Kury.8210:

@Sigmoid: It is also a shroud skill, correct? Admittedly thinking more 1v1. Thief would probably be the hardest class to get life force out of.

Also it’s not terribly long, but the moment stability is no longer pulsing is the moment thief can daze. Ofc doesn’t change that pulsing stability is very nice. Can’t wait to try it out.

Indeed but it is one of the skills with the highest stab uptime in the game so you can use that argument on everyone. It also stops the steal→ skull combo from working at all. Also how difficult it is to get lf from a theif depends on what they do as well as your build since reapers have very high lf generation that scales well with number of targets as well as number of allies. The bigger the fight the better off you will be for lf as a reaper.

@MonkeyButtFace
To elaborate on this GS #5 has a wide enough range that it will pull people out from the entire shadow refuge.

I dunno I think it kind of makes sense. I’m sure chill is part of the set up to fully utilize the weapon.

The way guards and thieves require little set up to do great damage is poor design, and frankly should not be a feature for any build outside of old school 100b warrior level of suicide… And even they had to set up!

The attack speed may make it easier to counter, but it’s not as if the tools given to make it work are ineffective. Will have to wait till release or beta to see. But who knows