why doesn't necro have an invul or immun
Because Necros have Shroud Form?
You are food because you can’t disengage.
3 seconds of invul/block would not help you in a team fight. You would just live 3 seconds longer.
Your shroud is meant to tank incoming damage. This is the necromancers class design and the reason why there are no blocks.
Positioning is very important when playing necromancer. And It’s not like you don’t have ranged options.
I feel like spectral walk making you immune to cc for those 8 seconds would go a LOT further towards our QoL than a bubble would… And it’d probably go over with the other profs a little better than giving us a full immunity.
I’m 50/50 on this to be honest.
Necromancer is a naturally tanky profession. It has high health and lots of access to damage reduction as well as many possibilities for sustained game play such as many of the traits in the Blood Magic tree.
With that said however, Necromancer has worse sustain potential than many of the other professions with less access to sustain focused abilities. Mesmer, Elementalist, Guardian, Warrior, Ranger, Engineer, they can all sustain in a fight better than a Necromancer and Warrior doesn’t have a whole lot less health than a Necromancer + even more access to damage reductions.
Although Necromancer can build Life Force in many different ways and can, on paper, use it to shield it’s health – it scales poorly with more players and does not interact well with the health it is supposed to be protecting.
I’m not sure that I feel Necromancers should have access to invulnerability but I do think we should have access to some form of blocks at the very least. The high health and potential to protect our health bars with Shroud is what is supposed to be the reason behind not having access to invulnerability or blocks. But if that’s the case, our options for sustain need a massive buff. Spectral skills need hugely reduced cooldowns, Blood Magic and Death Magic need to be far more potent, minions need to be more effective, cast times need to be adjusted, etc.
Necromancer is a powerful class but it’s weaknesses are a lot more apparent than some of the other professions weaknesses.
Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma
Shroud is Necromancer’s immunity skill. It takes a lot of skill to use effectively and adds a great deal of variety to game play.
Shroud is like casting a complicated Moa on yourself and getting a second health bar you have to manage as much as your real health.
Shroud is our offensive & defensive power, its our so called Invun the issue tho is same as its bin since the pre-beta change its lack in scaleing vs multiple foes, something Endure Pain or Signet of Stone just dont have.
This goes on into shouts works best vs multiple enemies, yet the shroud dosent… Anet said a Necro shines when faceing more enemies yet it took 3y before we got any cleave ? lost my faith in them longtime ago
Underjordens Furste 80 Necro Piken-server
Servant of Dhuum
Servant of Dhuum
While i understand that shroud plus invul might be too much, i would like to have an option to get one on the effectiveness of the other. Tbh it is simply not understandable why warriors can have double endure pain with their damage output plus the ridiculous healing signet on top while the only excuse the devs have regarding necros is death shroud.
Shroud is a sorry excuse for “defense” because due to the power creep with elite specs, our shroud can drop very very quickly. And that’s crazy if you think about it. Shrouds already mitigate damage by 50%, yet they drop so quickly, that should tell you something’s off.
We are the one class lacking mobility & escapes while at the same time lacking active defense. Getting some real active defense won’t be too much nor would it make us overpowered. And before someone or Anet comes and say “but but shroud!”, I’ll just point you to warriors. Look at their damage output, sustain, damage mitigation, and active/passive defense. They can stick to players and keep enemies close much better than we can, and keeping enemies close was supposed to be our specialty.
As have said before, shroud is what is holding this class back. It’s the excuse Anet uses to not balance us better.
As a person with slow reaction times, I prefer shroud over any active defence skill. I am so bad at timing blocks and similar skills.
Roll a sylvari and use take root as your elite.
I think necros need more passive ways to generate life force. Like a trait that gave you lf when you are cc’ed or something.
Because Necros have Shroud Form?
Invulns make people switch target in PvP/WvW whereas Shroud doesn’t because they’re still getting numbers. Shroud is generally useless when a team is spiking you down.
I think the class that has the least amount of disengagement ability (necro) should have the highest amount of invulnerability/blocks/sustain.
I think all professions with melee builds should have invulns/blocks, so the Reaper should have had something added when it was invented by Robert Gee.
A thief and mesmer should have less invulnerability because they have excellent ability to disengage from any fight that isn’t going their way.
Invulns and blocks should be balanced against disengagement ability.
That’s why I think it is fair that a slow Guardian has plenty of blocks and invulns while a Mesmer should have less nvulns/blocks and a Reaper should have them retrofitted.
(edited by dzeRnumbrd.6129)
I for one would enjoy a very offensive armor mechanic, something in line with retalliation or druid’s glyph of equality in non celestial avatar version, albeit slightly different.
This one would inflict fear and corrupt a boon on being struck. If they wanna hit you, let’em. Pretty soon they’ll either be running for their dear life (possibly with terror damage while doing so), or find out their boons just went on a long vacation to corruptionville.
Invulns make people switch target in PvP/WvW
And here is exactly the problem. Profession balancing is done by a team which is not connected to spvp or wvw. That´s why the pvp dev´s for example have to balance via amulets because they have no control over the skills. Grouch posted that a while ago on the pvp forums. So as long as this team don´t give a rat´s kitten about wvw, we will not see any improvement regarding disengagements or other core changes which will help in pvp game modes. Completely dumb but that´s the way it is in GW2 unfortunately.
Necro’s design, as it currently stands, simply does not fit into the game. ‘Attrition’ from having a higher healthpool is laughable when there is enough burst damage (both power and condi) in the game to go through that healthpool in seconds regardless. This is a major design flaw that in my eyes as of now largely kills viability, as it is not even closely compensated in terms of utility / dps that necros can provide.
Necro’s design, as it currently stands, simply does not fit into the game. ‘Attrition’ from having a higher healthpool is laughable when there is enough burst damage (both power and condi) in the game to go through that healthpool in seconds regardless. This is a major design flaw that in my eyes as of now largely kills viability, as it is not even closely compensated in terms of utility / dps that necros can provide.
Don’t forget that in this game, all the other classes have ways they can run off and disengage, and the game will just restore their health to full.
I find it odd how necromancer lacks ways to pull or force enemies into combat when they otherwise would not want to be.
A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.
specral grasp?
I would say dark path on core necro, but given the horrible wind up time, the slog erm pardon…“speed” of the projectile and cooldown…let’s stick with spectral grasp.
The Shroud is a excuse for ANet to don’t give to the Necromancer any single defensive skill.
At our best we can use a Spectral Armor (that grant protection and LF) and Wurm. With the reaper we obtained Rise!, that worked good, the reason why they nerfed it. In sPvP, all the other “defensive” skills are really useless.
What ANet think about the survavibility of the Necromancer explained once for all:
1) Double HP bar.
2) Some bad teleport skill + damage reduction by protection and minions
3) Corrupt the enemy boons to make it weak and kill it without mercy
4) Chill it to keep it in range
But we have the same old problems from years:
1) Life Force is NOT a second HP bar. It’s design upon the necromancer make it both our best defensive and offensive ability, making us chose if we want to survive 2 seconds more under a focus or use it to inflict our damage. Why out of the Shroud our damage is really WEAK compared to all the other classes. Our best chance to inflict damage was Deathly Chill, now nerfed to a barely useless trait, good only for the RS5+RS4 combo, that frequently miss half of it’kitten why the enemy easly move away from our attack range. And that’s our only “burst” skill. Then if we chose to die instead of spend all our LF to survive a little more and keep our best (and sometimes only) damage ability and combo, we have to find the best moment to active it, why a dps build can strip us away from RS in 4 seconds. Sometimes in team Fight I’m not able to end the RS5+4 combo before the enemy strip me away from the RS.
Then, the Shroud is NOT a defensive skill, only a way to make us chose if we want to inflict good damage or survive 2-4 seconds longer. I like that thing, force us to play better, but in the current meta that thing is making us too many problems.
2)With no damage immunuty or blocks, we have only few bad damage reduction and 1 bad teleport (if the work is killed we lost our only way to flee from a fight…).
Then, i will be ok about damage reduction skills. We can’t totally block damage? ok, we have a a traited Spectral Armor that grant us Protection for 9 seconds and a lot of LF. That’s good! But then you see that the majority of the other classes have Passive damage reduction skills and Permanent Protect, that make our few bad defensive options look as what they are: bad try to survive a little longer why all the others can survive five times better without just two block skills.
The HP amount don’t make a class a Bunker or even able to Self Sustain itself. The enemy have to inflict to us up to 40k of damage to kill us if we active all our skills, then why we’re killed by any clas sin the game (and by some of them really really fast) and a class like the Dragonhunter survive ten time better than us? The reason is one: Strong Active Defensive skills. A dps DH build have up to 17 seconds of Block (14 of them by the traited F3, that also make them able to fight using a directional block) and 3 seconds of Immunity that also recharge it’s Virtues. 20 seconds of survavibility. Plus 3 blocks by the Focus 5 and a lot of Blinds.
Then, a build with 17k of hp survive ten time better and longer than a class with 40k of HP+LF.
That’s why a 3 sec of Immunity during a Focus can block up to 18-20k of damage.
The necromancer Need true defensive skills, not only bad defences that any other class can obtain easly and frequently in a permanent way.
3) ANet think that another way to make us survive is to grant us the ability to Corrupt boons. And, guys, that Worked! Incredibly Worked!!!
Until there was a bunker meta, able to inflict only medium damage and with really few classes/builds able to make a Burst or even high damage, and also that builds was truly Berserker builds, with only few defences and easy to kill.
in the previous meta the game granted to some bunkers to inflict similar damage as a dps (celestial tempest) but Now the meta grant to a lot of classes a chance to play Totally Berserker and Survive as a Bunker.
Now corrupt the boons of the enemy don’t make it weaker in damage, not enough to make us survive.
Against the old cele-ele we was the only class able to win why we’re able to corrupt it’s protection and might stack, making it killable like all the other classes and unable to inflict it’s insane direct and condition damage. Now we’re facing classes that are able to strip away half of our hp without even the need of a single buff. And they’re also able to stack might, becoming even more dangerous for us.
Actually a Boon Corruption playstyle don’t even grant the chance to kill anyone, not even to survive to anyone.
4) We’re unable to keep the enemy in range. That’s why Anet made all the movement and teleport skills be unaffected by Chill, don’t reducing they’re movement ability at all, still while under the effect of Chill. Also Chill is lesser spammable than before (but there’s a good reason, at the beginning the Chill was a little too much. Anyway, now that don’t even inflict damage there’s no more reasons to keep it hard spammable, but it’s like it is and ANet will not change that).
Counting that any other class have a lot of movement skills, we’re totally unable to keep the enemy in our range. That’ because a lot of fights ends with the Reaper in Shroud that try to catch the enemy without a single chance to reach him, wasting it’s shroud.
The necromancer lack in more or less anything that make him able to survive under a enemy focus, have not mobility, the corruption ability had been enanched by a lot with the scepter buff but is useless to defend yourself against the insane dps of the actual meta (and sometimes is useless because different classes can spam boons and clean condis so much that all our work last for 2 seconds and then is like nothing happen), our damage is weak out of the Shroud and the Shroud is our only way to attack and defend, forcing us to chose if we want to survive or inflict damage, sometimes making us unable to do both the things, and we have not a single way to force the enemy to stand in melee (unless he want to stay in melee because can kill us in few seconds without mercy).
From the moment the bunker meta has gone, we’re totally a free kill for a large amount of classes and builds and our work is even harder why differetn classes have more boon spam and condi clean than before and others have more survavibility and damage than before.
We’re the last weel of this meta. The only reason we’re still on our feets is why we’re able to corrupt boons instead of only remove it. Nothing more.
The Shroud is a excuse for ANet to don’t give to the Necromancer any single defensive skill.
At our best we can use a Spectral Armor (that grant protection and LF) and Wurm. With the reaper we obtained Rise!, that worked good, the reason why they nerfed it. In sPvP, all the other “defensive” skills are really useless.What ANet think about the survavibility of the Necromancer explained once for all:
1) Double HP bar.
2) Some bad teleport skill + damage reduction by protection and minions
3) Corrupt the enemy boons to make it weak and kill it without mercy
4) Chill it to keep it in rangeBut we have the same old problems from years:
1) Life Force is NOT a second HP bar. It’s design upon the necromancer make it both our best defensive and offensive ability, making us chose if we want to survive 2 seconds more under a focus or use it to inflict our damage. Why out of the Shroud our damage is really WEAK compared to all the other classes. Our best chance to inflict damage was Deathly Chill, now nerfed to a barely useless trait, good only for the RS5+RS4 combo, that frequently miss half of it’kitten why the enemy easly move away from our attack range. And that’s our only “burst” skill. Then if we chose to die instead of spend all our LF to survive a little more and keep our best (and sometimes only) damage ability and combo, we have to find the best moment to active it, why a dps build can strip us away from RS in 4 seconds. Sometimes in team Fight I’m not able to end the RS5+4 combo before the enemy strip me away from the RS.
Then, the Shroud is NOT a defensive skill, only a way to make us chose if we want to inflict good damage or survive 2-4 seconds longer. I like that thing, force us to play better, but in the current meta that thing is making us too many problems.2)With no damage immunuty or blocks, we have only few bad damage reduction and 1 bad teleport (if the work is killed we lost our only way to flee from a fight…).
Then, i will be ok about damage reduction skills. We can’t totally block damage? ok, we have a a traited Spectral Armor that grant us Protection for 9 seconds and a lot of LF. That’s good! But then you see that the majority of the other classes have Passive damage reduction skills and Permanent Protect, that make our few bad defensive options look as what they are: bad try to survive a little longer why all the others can survive five times better without just two block skills.
The HP amount don’t make a class a Bunker or even able to Self Sustain itself. The enemy have to inflict to us up to 40k of damage to kill us if we active all our skills, then why we’re killed by any clas sin the game (and by some of them really really fast) and a class like the Dragonhunter survive ten time better than us? The reason is one: Strong Active Defensive skills. A dps DH build have up to 17 seconds of Block (14 of them by the traited F3, that also make them able to fight using a directional block) and 3 seconds of Immunity that also recharge it’s Virtues. 20 seconds of survavibility. Plus 3 blocks by the Focus 5 and a lot of Blinds.
Then, a build with 17k of hp survive ten time better and longer than a class with 40k of HP+LF.
That’s why a 3 sec of Immunity during a Focus can block up to 18-20k of damage.
The necromancer Need true defensive skills, not only bad defences that any other class can obtain easly and frequently in a permanent way.3) ANet think that another way to make us survive is to grant us the ability to Corrupt boons. And, guys, that Worked! Incredibly Worked!!!
Until there was a bunker meta, able to inflict only medium damage and with really few classes/builds able to make a Burst or even high damage, and also that builds was truly Berserker builds, with only few defences and easy to kill.
in the previous meta the game granted to some bunkers to inflict similar damage as a dps (celestial tempest) but Now the meta grant to a lot of classes a chance to play Totally Berserker and Survive as a Bunker.
Now corrupt the boons of the enemy don’t make it weaker in damage, not enough to make us survive.
Against the old cele-ele we was the only class able to win why we’re able to corrupt it’s protection and might stack, making it killable like all the other classes and unable to inflict it’s insane direct and condition damage. Now we’re facing classes that are able to strip away half of our hp without even the need of a single buff. And they’re also able to stack might, becoming even more dangerous for us.
Actually a Boon Corruption playstyle don’t even grant the chance to kill anyone, not even to survive to anyone.4) We’re unable to keep the enemy in range. That’s why Anet made all the movement and teleport skills be unaffected by Chill, don’t reducing they’re movement ability at all, still while under the effect of Chill. Also Chill is lesser spammable than before (but there’s a good reason, at the beginning the Chill was a little too much. Anyway, now that don’t even inflict damage there’s no more reasons to keep it hard spammable, but it’s like it is and ANet will not change that).
Counting that any other class have a lot of movement skills, we’re totally unable to keep the enemy in our range. That’ because a lot of fights ends with the Reaper in Shroud that try to catch the enemy without a single chance to reach him, wasting it’s shroud.The necromancer lack in more or less anything that make him able to survive under a enemy focus, have not mobility, the corruption ability had been enanched by a lot with the scepter buff but is useless to defend yourself against the insane dps of the actual meta (and sometimes is useless because different classes can spam boons and clean condis so much that all our work last for 2 seconds and then is like nothing happen), our damage is weak out of the Shroud and the Shroud is our only way to attack and defend, forcing us to chose if we want to survive or inflict damage, sometimes making us unable to do both the things, and we have not a single way to force the enemy to stand in melee (unless he want to stay in melee because can kill us in few seconds without mercy).
From the moment the bunker meta has gone, we’re totally a free kill for a large amount of classes and builds and our work is even harder why differetn classes have more boon spam and condi clean than before and others have more survavibility and damage than before.
We’re the last weel of this meta. The only reason we’re still on our feets is why we’re able to corrupt boons instead of only remove it. Nothing more.
+1
The Shroud is a excuse for ANet to don’t give to the Necromancer any single defensive skill.
This and the rest of what you say is so true. The reason necro doesn’t get anything is because we are tanky, which we really are. We are tanky in the way that we can take a lot more dmg to the face then other classes. But what Anet can’t seem to understand is that being able to facetank raw dmg doesn’t make you survive.
The other classes survive so much longer because they can easily mitigate/ignore/outheal the dmg they receive. Most of the defences on other classes scale as well while shroud just doesn’t. It’s always the same amount in a fight, which is why focus the necro is a thing in teamfights.
Sure shroud reduce dmg with 50% but only up to as much LF we have. You can hit us out of what is basically our main defence but you can’t hit someone out of protection/block/invul/evade.
Protection will always reduce dmg by a set percentage during it’s duration, a block will always block the full dmg of an attack and invuls/evade will ignore the full dmg of an attack.
Face it, Anet doesn’t care about necro, most likely because none of the balance team main it. They made Reaper for us but before it was released nerfed it’s chill by making other classes movement skills immune to it. Then cleansed chill’s damage feature, replacing it with bleed because DC actually worked for us. Cant have necros killing other classes now can we.We still manage to hold our own alot, when we arent being burst down by thief or Berserkers dealing 20,000 damage in 1-3 sec. Maybe changing the bleed to confusion would work, it seems to do well when spammed by Mes and others. Thing is without escapes or better defenses necros will only become more and more of a joke with each buff that other classes are granted, but I’ll still keep trying. Necro for Life.
WAR Platinum Necro, HoD BL roamer/defender. Solo Keep/Tower capper.
Been playing my rev a lot lately, I’ve seen the light. Sure is nice being the hunter focusing necros rather than being the prey running for my life. With active & passive defense, the rev is very fun to play, and combat is engaging. They remind me of how fun power reaper used to be during beta weekends before power got nerfed to the ground.
I still consider necro my “main”, but I have to be honest, I don’t miss being the victim. I find as a necro I couldn’t carry games (as we know this season the matchmaking will match you up with terrible teammates 50% of the time). I’m always too busy getting focused and with bad teammates, it can be really frustrating to play my necro. But as a rev I could carry bad players as I’ve been saving necro teammates from sure deaths so often. With mobility I can go from point to point much faster, I can engage and disengage at will.
There’s zero reason why necros shouldn’t have better mobility and active/passive defense. There’s even less than zero reason that our own traits & skills can’t heal through our shroud. All classes with active/passive defense have better mobility than we do. It’s complete bullkitten and they know it.
I thought about playing a fotm guard but I couldn’t stoop that low. Oh and if anybody wants to feel sick, watch this new posted vid by a druid playing in Legendary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpbTQLlujzo
A class with mobility, high ranged burst, great sustain, and plenty of active defense. Sure seems the rules placed on necros don’t apply to certain classes. The irony? No necro can beat a druid like that, ever.
(edited by gavyne.6847)
If you are heavily focused: Spectral Armor > Shroud … works technically like an invuln.
Is it clunky as hell? Yes of course, like everything on Necro:
- wurm teleport
- Spectral Walk teleport
- Death’s Charge leap
…
(edited by KrHome.1920)
The Shroud is a excuse for ANet to don’t give to the Necromancer any single defensive skill.
At our best we can use a Spectral Armor (that grant protection and LF) and Wurm. With the reaper we obtained Rise!, that worked good, the reason why they nerfed it. In sPvP, all the other “defensive” skills are really useless.What ANet think about the survavibility of the Necromancer explained once for all:
1) Double HP bar.
2) Some bad teleport skill + damage reduction by protection and minions
3) Corrupt the enemy boons to make it weak and kill it without mercy
4) Chill it to keep it in rangeBut we have the same old problems from years:
1) Life Force is NOT a second HP bar. It’s design upon the necromancer make it both our best defensive and offensive ability, making us chose if we want to survive 2 seconds more under a focus or use it to inflict our damage. Why out of the Shroud our damage is really WEAK compared to all the other classes. Our best chance to inflict damage was Deathly Chill, now nerfed to a barely useless trait, good only for the RS5+RS4 combo, that frequently miss half of it’kitten why the enemy easly move away from our attack range. And that’s our only “burst” skill. Then if we chose to die instead of spend all our LF to survive a little more and keep our best (and sometimes only) damage ability and combo, we have to find the best moment to active it, why a dps build can strip us away from RS in 4 seconds. Sometimes in team Fight I’m not able to end the RS5+4 combo before the enemy strip me away from the RS.
Then, the Shroud is NOT a defensive skill, only a way to make us chose if we want to inflict good damage or survive 2-4 seconds longer. I like that thing, force us to play better, but in the current meta that thing is making us too many problems.2)With no damage immunuty or blocks, we have only few bad damage reduction and 1 bad teleport (if the work is killed we lost our only way to flee from a fight…).
Then, i will be ok about damage reduction skills. We can’t totally block damage? ok, we have a a traited Spectral Armor that grant us Protection for 9 seconds and a lot of LF. That’s good! But then you see that the majority of the other classes have Passive damage reduction skills and Permanent Protect, that make our few bad defensive options look as what they are: bad try to survive a little longer why all the others can survive five times better without just two block skills.
The HP amount don’t make a class a Bunker or even able to Self Sustain itself. The enemy have to inflict to us up to 40k of damage to kill us if we active all our skills, then why we’re killed by any clas sin the game (and by some of them really really fast) and a class like the Dragonhunter survive ten time better than us? The reason is one: Strong Active Defensive skills. A dps DH build have up to 17 seconds of Block (14 of them by the traited F3, that also make them able to fight using a directional block) and 3 seconds of Immunity that also recharge it’s Virtues. 20 seconds of survavibility. Plus 3 blocks by the Focus 5 and a lot of Blinds.
Then, a build with 17k of hp survive ten time better and longer than a class with 40k of HP+LF.
That’s why a 3 sec of Immunity during a Focus can block up to 18-20k of damage.
The necromancer Need true defensive skills, not only bad defences that any other class can obtain easly and frequently in a permanent way.3) ANet think that another way to make us survive is to grant us the ability to Corrupt boons. And, guys, that Worked! Incredibly Worked!!!
Until there was a bunker meta, able to inflict only medium damage and with really few classes/builds able to make a Burst or even high damage, and also that builds was truly Berserker builds, with only few defences and easy to kill.
in the previous meta the game granted to some bunkers to inflict similar damage as a dps (celestial tempest) but Now the meta grant to a lot of classes a chance to play Totally Berserker and Survive as a Bunker.
Now corrupt the boons of the enemy don’t make it weaker in damage, not enough to make us survive.
Against the old cele-ele we was the only class able to win why we’re able to corrupt it’s protection and might stack, making it killable like all the other classes and unable to inflict it’s insane direct and condition damage. Now we’re facing classes that are able to strip away half of our hp without even the need of a single buff. And they’re also able to stack might, becoming even more dangerous for us.
Actually a Boon Corruption playstyle don’t even grant the chance to kill anyone, not even to survive to anyone.4) We’re unable to keep the enemy in range. That’s why Anet made all the movement and teleport skills be unaffected by Chill, don’t reducing they’re movement ability at all, still while under the effect of Chill. Also Chill is lesser spammable than before (but there’s a good reason, at the beginning the Chill was a little too much. Anyway, now that don’t even inflict damage there’s no more reasons to keep it hard spammable, but it’s like it is and ANet will not change that).
Counting that any other class have a lot of movement skills, we’re totally unable to keep the enemy in our range. That’ because a lot of fights ends with the Reaper in Shroud that try to catch the enemy without a single chance to reach him, wasting it’s shroud.The necromancer lack in more or less anything that make him able to survive under a enemy focus, have not mobility, the corruption ability had been enanched by a lot with the scepter buff but is useless to defend yourself against the insane dps of the actual meta (and sometimes is useless because different classes can spam boons and clean condis so much that all our work last for 2 seconds and then is like nothing happen), our damage is weak out of the Shroud and the Shroud is our only way to attack and defend, forcing us to chose if we want to survive or inflict damage, sometimes making us unable to do both the things, and we have not a single way to force the enemy to stand in melee (unless he want to stay in melee because can kill us in few seconds without mercy).
From the moment the bunker meta has gone, we’re totally a free kill for a large amount of classes and builds and our work is even harder why differetn classes have more boon spam and condi clean than before and others have more survavibility and damage than before.
We’re the last weel of this meta. The only reason we’re still on our feets is why we’re able to corrupt boons instead of only remove it. Nothing more.
plus 100000
and devs wont read this sadly
If you are heavily focused: Spectral Armor > Shroud … works technically like an invuln.
Eh, protection can get stripped or boon corrupted, and you are assuming you even have enough lifeforce to go into shroud in the first place, even more to stay in shroud for longer than 1 round of attacks. Plus you are vulnerable to any and all cc’s.
Nope, nothing like invuln, not even close. It’s more bs logic by Anet though, how they need to place strict rules against us having X + Y, yet other classes have the whole enchilada.
If you are heavily focused: Spectral Armor > Shroud … works technically like an invuln.
Eh, protection can get stripped or boon corrupted, and you are assuming you even have enough lifeforce to go into shroud in the first place, even more to stay in shroud for longer than 1 round of attacks. Plus you are vulnerable to any and all cc’s.
Nope, nothing like invuln, not even close. It’s more bs logic by Anet though, how they need to place strict rules against us having X + Y, yet other classes have the whole enchilada.
I am not talking about protection but the lifeforce gain on taking damage. Your shroud won’t drop significantly during those 6 seconds. And even if that still happens: grab some toughness or even vitality (since the gain is measured in %) gear! Then you should have an Endure Pain like effect.
But of course: There is one big issue: you can’t be healed by your team mates, while tanking damage in shroud.
Btw.:
- Endure Pain doesn’t prevent you from getting CC’d.
- Other classes have this and that out of context is no viable argument.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
Shroud is only 50% damage mitigation, again, nope, nothing like invulns, not even close. Thing about Endure Pain is not just Endure Pain, but all other tools warriors have at their disposal, namely resistance which nullifies the weakness to Endure Pain itself. I won’t even bother going into the true invulns, evades, blocks, and stealth other classes have access to.
To even say spectral armor > shroud works technically like an invuln is not a viable argument.
(edited by gavyne.6847)
If you are heavily focused: Spectral Armor > Shroud … works technically like an invuln.
Is it clunky as hell? Yes of course, like everything on Necro:
- wurm teleport
- Spectral Walk teleport
- Death’s Charge leap
…
About Spectral Armor + Shroud…
“Gain life force as you take damage. REMOVED when you enter Death Shroud. Also applies protection.” (skill description)
If you active it and go in Shroud the only thing you obtain is Protection and it’s passive LF generation disappear. You totally waste the skill.
That skill worked also in Shroud some years ago, then ANet fixed it.
Then:
-Wurm can be easly killed and a teleport against classes with so high mobility (rev, guard, mesm, ele can teleport to you in the exact moment you go away, for example) is more or less useless if that class really want to kill you.
-Spectral walk is a total waste of utility, just why you don’t teleport to a designed place to flee from the enemy or a team fight, you just can teleport Back to a place where you already been half-killed by your enemy, sometimes making the enemy team work easy why they don’t even need to catch you.
-RS leap is good, but it’s only a single leap. Any other class have much more mobility or just burst you down with ranged weapons (es: ranger LB).
-You wrote “…”, then expain me how other options we have to “escape” from the enemy focus, please.
Don’t try to find ways for a necromancer to survive in sPvP, in this meta, because we seriously don’t have Real ways to keep ourself alive, unless totally situational skills that work only sometimes depending on the IQ of the enemy.
I tried once a full defensive build with Soul reaping, death magic and reaper, with wurm, poison cloud (block projectiles, useful against rangers and guardians, and some warriors LB users) and Rise!, plus Weakness to reduce the enemy direct damage.
Really High defence by a good toughness, Lf generation and 20% damage reduction (10% from chilled enemy and 10% from poisoned enemies).
I died just a little slower, nothing more.
but “die slower” don’t mean Survive.
our only way to “survive” in the past meta was “Kill the enemy before he kill you”. Now we’re totally unable to kill any kind of class used by a skilled player. That’s why our damage is more or less the lowest of the game (in sPvP) and we have not a single burst combo (only RS5+RS4, that is the easier combo to evade of the history).
(edited by Silv.9207)
Actually “spectral armor”: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Armor still keeps it’s effect in shroud. That’s been a mechanic forever. I’ve used it in the last couple weeks against the Champion Bloodstone Elemental and it works just like it always has. Makes you effectively immortal for the duration.
It’s turned to be bugged again? O.o
I was shute they fixed it some time ago.
Anyway it’s a damage reduction, not a invulnerability. but it’s good to know.
Just how long have you guys been necros…
Spectral armor (and walk) is not intended to be removed by shroud since the that patch (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2013-06-25). The tooltip just was never changed properly…
Also who changed the wiki page of spectral armor? It used to have a link to said patch…
Edit: Sorry just saw ingame that they fixed the tooltip. It is now correct. The wiki is currently wrong.
(edited by Muchacho.2390)
If you are heavily focused: Spectral Armor > Shroud … works technically like an invuln.
Is it clunky as hell? Yes of course, like everything on Necro:
- wurm teleport
- Spectral Walk teleport
- Death’s Charge leap
…
I had situation where 100% shroud melted in around 3 seconds. That’s around two spectral armors (or one in plague form) so much for like an invuln.
EverythingOP
If you are heavily focused: Spectral Armor > Shroud … works technically like an invuln.
Is it clunky as hell? Yes of course, like everything on Necro:
- wurm teleport
- Spectral Walk teleport
- Death’s Charge leap
…I had situation where 100% shroud melted in around 3 seconds. That’s around two spectral armors (or one in plague form) so much for like an invuln.
You are in some extreeeeme situations then, to have all that shroud gone so quick with Spectral Armor on. Honestly, the only reason I use Rise instead of Armor is because of traits. In some ways, it’s even better than Endure Pain. For one, traited, it’s lower cooldown and more than twice as long. Further, it scales well. I believe the one second icd is per attacker. So you get pretty kitten good mileage from it
If you are heavily focused: Spectral Armor > Shroud … works technically like an invuln.
Is it clunky as hell? Yes of course, like everything on Necro:
- wurm teleport
- Spectral Walk teleport
- Death’s Charge leap
…I had situation where 100% shroud melted in around 3 seconds. That’s around two spectral armors (or one in plague form) so much for like an invuln.
You are in some extreeeeme situations then, to have all that shroud gone so quick with Spectral Armor on. Honestly, the only reason I use Rise instead of Armor is because of traits. In some ways, it’s even better than Endure Pain. For one, traited, it’s lower cooldown and more than twice as long. Further, it scales well. I believe the one second icd is per attacker. So you get pretty kitten good mileage from it
That’s why invuls are better then what necro’s have, they cover all cases. One it is not per attacker so it scales very very poorly (or not at all). Second who actually traites spectral armor? Vital persistance is almost necessairy and better.
EverythingOP
Spectral armor, still granting LF while in Shroud is not a invulnerability skill. It’s more or less like a damage reduction skill. Protection itself do better.
1400lf/hit when a enemy hit can inflict you 3-6k of damage is not a invulnerability skill.
It’s a big help, but not a thing that make us survive.
it can help us to flee from a mid fight, if the enemy don’t chose to truly kill us and follow us knowing we’re free kills.
A single invulnerability skill would also be “useless” if we don’t have a single way to kill the enemy. Our damage is the lowest of the game, in sPvP. the reason we was strong in the past was why we’re able to send back conditions during a Condi Meta situation. Now the only classes that use conditions are we and the warrior, with sometimes a mesmer that try a condi build. Then our main source of damage is gone and also we’re unable to kill a warrior with it’s condi why he can spam resistance for all the time he need to burst you down. i remember the era of condi guardian, when we was able to send back to an enemy 15 stack of burn. that was really a good time XD
Now our chill is gone, we’re forced to use staff and scepter, that inflict a medium damage, the conditions will be corrupted more or less always in not damaging conditions and we’ve not the time to inflict good damage before we’re downed by a burst.
We’re an attrition class (by ANet will) and then we’re unable to inflict a big damage. We’ve a single combo to inflict damage (RS5+RS4) and is too easy to see and evade that a single teleport or leap make us fail all the combo and lose all the damage.
We can find ways to survive a little more, ways that don’t scale on the number of the enemy, but if we’re unable to kill the enemy we’re unable to win anyway.
Spectral armor, still granting LF while in Shroud is not a invulnerability skill. It’s more or less like a damage reduction skill. Protection itself do better.
1400lf/hit when a enemy hit can inflict you 3-6k of damage is not a invulnerability skill.
It’s a big help, but not a thing that make us survive.
6k damage? Did you notice the 50% inc. damage reduction in shroud?
I played Power Reaper using Paladin Amulet for a few hundred matches till now. And I can tell you that I am unkillable in midfight when spectral armor and shroud are up. Damage is still pretty good since I’ve 100% crit. chance in shroud.
In my first post in this thread I mentioned, that the necromancer’s problem is not the non-existence of a block/invuln but its non-existent mobility. The classes traits and skills would be totally fine if there was a way to disengage burst. GS5 should be a 750 range leap instead of a 750 range pull.
A single invulnerability skill would also be “useless” if we don’t have a single way to kill the enemy.
I can kill everything except that OP warrior build which outsustains everything, so I don’t care and just wait for the nerf.
(edited by KrHome.1920)
Spectral armor, still granting LF while in Shroud is not a invulnerability skill. It’s more or less like a damage reduction skill. Protection itself do better.
1400lf/hit when a enemy hit can inflict you 3-6k of damage is not a invulnerability skill.
It’s a big help, but not a thing that make us survive.6k damage? Did you notice the 50% inc. damage reduction in shroud?
I played Power Reaper using Paladin Amulet for a few hundred matches till now. And I can tell you that I am unkillable in midfight when spectral armor and shroud are up. Damage is still pretty good since I’ve 100% crit. chance in shroud.
In my first post in this thread I mentioned, that the necromancer’s problem is not the non-existence of a block/invuln but its non-existent mobility. The classes traits and skills would be totally fine if there was a way to disengage burst. GS5 should be a 750 range leap instead of a 750 range pull.
A single invulnerability skill would also be “useless” if we don’t have a single way to kill the enemy.
I can kill everything except that OP warrior build which outsustains everything, so I don’t care and just wait for the nerf.
While i agree that mobility is something necros in general could get some improvemnt (fleshworm shorter casttime please), I disagree with the rest you are saying.
Of course spectral armor will have better results with paladins amulet then the others, after all more health means more lifeforce and more armor means less direct damage taken but it still isnt a “i am unkillable” skill.
Lets do some rough math. With paladins amulet a necro will have roughly 24-25k health so his LF will be around 20-21k and since spectral armor gives at max 52,8% lf (no spectral mastery but with gluttony) you would get from 1 spectral armor roughly 11k lf. So under ideal (but unrealisic) conditions you could have around a 30-33k lf meatshield with the damage reduction in shroud that number would go up to 60-66k effective lf. Note that with paladin amulet you have roughly the armor of a heavy golem and a heavy golem has roughly 22k health (see https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Target_Golem_-_Heavy). Now ask yourself how long will it take for 2 or 3 players (with good builds and coordination) to kill a heavy golem with 3 times the health. That how long you roughly can stay in shroud under better then in reality possible conditions. Also i didnt use protection in my calaculations since in a team fight is is more then likely that there will be some boon removel, hence the protection wont last long under focus fire.
So while you would be really tanky you are hardly unkillable.
Did you notice the 50% inc. damage reduction in shroud?
50% damage reduction while in shroud?
Did I missed a fix or something?
I just tried in sPvP against one of the mobs but the mob inflict me the same amount of damage, if I’m in or out of the shroud… is it different against players?
I truly never noticed that damage reduction.
About LF, in sPvP is fixed at a precise amount that don’t depend to your HP, only if you have or not Soul Reaping trait, that increase LF by 15%.
Anyway, if you’re able to kill everyone, I’m glad that there’s a pro necro able to do that.
Can you show us your build? I really like the idea of be able to kill everyone (with a lot of practice in your build)
(edited by Silv.9207)
50% damage reduction while in shroud?
Did I missed a fix or something?
I just tried in sPvP against one of the mobs but the mob inflict me the same amount of damage, if I’m in or out of the shroud… is it different against players?
I truly never noticed that damage reduction.
Yeah, your life force bar drops only half of the depicted amount.
About LF, in sPvP is fixed at a precise amount that don’t depend to your HP, only if you have or not Soul Reaping trait, that increase LF by 15%.
It is actually not , you need to enter shroud to see the difference though (the bar will not shift on amulet switch). A fun way to use this practically use this is to useg plague when you’re about to proc the 50% mark (or just when focussed) the last gasp trait will activate and you get double life force.
EverythingOP
True, my mistake, I read wrong.
I stayed away from the gam for some months and make some mistakes, I’m sorry XD
About the LF, then, if an enemy hit me for 2k my LF drop only for 1k?
otherways I didn’t noticed any changes while out or in the shroud.
True, my mistake, I read wrong.
I stayed away from the gam for some months and make some mistakes, I’m sorry XDAbout the LF, then, if an enemy hit me for 2k my LF drop only for 1k?
otherways I didn’t noticed any changes while out or in the shroud.
yes, it is a bit difficult to see with the degen but if the damage is high enough it becomes easier to see.
EverythingOP