Guild Wars 2

Hunter shot change would double dip with evasive purity ensuring that a ranger will never suffer from blind. Since which this change we would have several ways to remove conditions.

Lightning reflexes change won’t happen since it would end up removing a potential 5 conditions. Alongside all the other condi removal we can get this would end up us having an average of removing one condi a second with the right setup rendering us immue. I can understand the thinking though since withdraw and roll for initiative are essentially the same skill but remove those conditions. Difference is theirs has two effects and so does ours. One is a heal evade, one is an initiative evade, ours is a boon granting damage dealing evade. Its cooldown could drop a bit though. 40s is a bit steep..

Lightning Reflexes could stand to have the damage removed entirely. I would take the conditions being removed over the damage being dealt (especially because you could then reliably use LR after hunters shot and create distance).

The goal behind Hunter’s Shot is to make it a reliable stealth, which would still have some counterplay. Additionally, the removal of Weakness as well, because the Longbow is the least evasive weapon option we have access to (outside of running Axe/Warhorn or Axe/Torch), would allow us to keep the dodges while use the weaponset up, as well as keep the damage impairing aspect of having weakness on you at a minimum, making the longbow more reliable damage, which I personally feel fits the overall theme of the weapon.

Evasive Purity is a pretty garbage trait anyhow for removing blind, the blind could be removed entirely from the trait and most people that actually use it wouldn’t even notice the difference.

Just my thought process behind it.

Rangers already have more condi removal options than the other professions to the point we can basically render ourselves completely immune to them, and that’s if the condis are even able to land with all our evades and other escape options. I don’t really see anet giving us more, no matter much I would want to use your proposed skills.

The devs mentioned in a live stream a couple weeks ago one reason we have limited stun breakers is because rangers are so hard to catch with anything in the first place. (And weirdly enough, it’s pretty common to have 2 stun breakers plus 20 some seconds of stability on a bar.)

^ as above the only difference in our condi removal , is one trait line makes it passive and the other active SotF, taking both trait lines is uber condi removal but isn’t needed, if you can time your actives properly with the evades.

even though the nature magic line with Survial of the fittest, and wilderness survial should be enough to keep the condis off , while running healing spring.

making hunters shot unblockable, would stop one , of the few counter plays , as you can’t evade using a longbow (stuck on weapon swap cooldown can’t use sword evade/dagger evade) thats the only window the opponent will have, with timed evades.

I believe if hunters shot added a second condition it would be a bit more useful , like a short term torment .

though it won’t be of any sufficent damage, it’ll just be a little more punishing if the target don’t block or evade themselfs , it would also allow you a little more control of their hp while they run around for those 3secs trying to find you.

i’d be a little tormented , if a pet is charging at you with swiftness , the short term torment would reflect this , 2secs would be enough even wih 100% condi duration it wouldn’t be too great or too weak. in terms of damage or control.

it would compliment barrage very well.

The purpose behind the proposed change to Hunter’s Shot is to remove some of the counterplay options to the skill, absolutely. The skill is terrible for damage, and isn’t used for any sort of “big damage” setup.

It’s a full on utility skill, that at the moment, is both extremely unreliable, and fairly weak utility for how unreliable it is.

And yes, our tanky builds are tanky against conditions, but most of our strong condi removal options are only beneficial to condition damage focused builds, leaving power builds high and dry unless you sacrifice so much efficiency of your output that the opportunity cost is no longer worth it.

More importantly, what is the largest difference between running full glass on a ranger versus running full glass on a thief or mesmer? A lot of people are going to argue damage, and while a strong case can be made for it being damage, that isn’t what creates the efficiency disparity. What creates the efficiency disparity is the amount of utility options mesmers/thieves still have access to as full glass builds.

Thieves have incredible team offense utility on their shortbow alone, and can maneuver terrain for defense, on top of the amount of utility Shadow Refuge is alone, not to mention pistol 5 for blind fields on demand if that is the set thief is running, which greatly improves their overall versatility and survivability.

Mesmers, while having arguably only slightly more terrain maneuvers due to blink (less land speed mobility though), perform a near identical role to that of a longbow ranger. They pressure for a distance with Greatsword, opening up on specific targets when needed. However, the also have arguably better AoE options, ON TOP OF the fact that they can run portal, mass invis, veil (more of a WvW option), Null Field, and have a bunch of teleport “tricks.”

Mind you, both classes run full glass with basically no condi removal either. So comparably to either class, when ranger goes full glass, we get as our best options, exactly what Eurantien runs on his bar; Protect Me, Lightning Reflexes, and Signet of Renewal. Combine that with Longbow, and with full glass traits, no matter what your offhand swap is, the amount of team and personal utility you are capable of having is so extremely limited that THAT is what makes makes our power builds less effective than other classes competing for the same role on a team comp.

tl;dr: Power builds need more utility to be viable.

yep but that is a mesmers class machanic to blink/stealth/distort or force you to detarget.

going full glass deters pet use , the only things you can give , is spotted, companions might, 30% crit and heals on crits, no sustain and only Utility for damage Migration.

where the other medium armour classes have more stealth/distorts (line of sight changes ect) .
only the Engi is different and has a mix of the two , but is considerably less Damage Migration out of Elixers/turrets.

sticking to hunts shot , not much can be changed to a already controling/semi reset.

options could be?
1. the torment i suggested its good but not great , and they will have to gap close if your using a longbow anyway.
2. Still applies Swiftness but your next pets attack can’t be blocked(only the one attack could be used for a f2 leap on a cat.)
3. applies swiftness to allies within 240 radius of the pet, pet also gets swiftness but the duration would be shortened to like 7secs, for team faster Repostion( then the rotations could be swapped up , and used after a barrage to escape after the root channel)?

Simply changing LR to remove condis when pressed (I assume this is still an issue, I haven’t played my Ranger for 2 months) as opposed to the end of the roll and making it prioritize movement impairing ones over other condis would be just as good as your change imo and wouldn’t be that overpowered.

Hunter’s Shot I’d much rather see it always stealth regardless of hit (thus not needing unblockable) and with it being 100% reliable as a defensive cooldown, you probably wouldn’t even need the removal of weakness and blind on activation. You could then do what was suggested in the other thread and offer some other premium for actually landing the hit something like one of the following:

A brief immobilize
A 5 stack of vuln
A leap backward
A movement buff like Ele’s get

If I had to choose 1 single thing the Ranger class needs above everything else it would be a Fast Hands trait. I personally think this one change would at least raise power builds enough to be competetive in both PvP and WvW. Certainly not top tier like other classes, but enough to make it feel like you could actually win as opposed to an insurmountable brick wall all the time.

That all said… people shouldn’t compare skill X on class A to skill Y on class B. Just because another class has something similar and the Ranger would get more tacked onto doesn’t make the skill overpowered. It’s still in the hands of a Ranger afterall.

Atherakhia.4086:

Simply changing LR to remove condis when pressed (I assume this is still an issue, I haven’t played my Ranger for 2 months) as opposed to the end of the roll and making it prioritize movement impairing ones over other condis would be just as good as your change imo and wouldn’t be that overpowered.

Hunter’s Shot I’d much rather see it always stealth regardless of hit (thus not needing unblockable) and with it being 100% reliable as a defensive cooldown, you probably wouldn’t even need the removal of weakness and blind on activation. You could then do what was suggested in the other thread and offer some other premium for actually landing the hit something like one of the following:

A brief immobilize
A 5 stack of vuln
A leap backward
A movement buff like Ele’s get

If I had to choose 1 single thing the Ranger class needs above everything else it would be a Fast Hands trait. I personally think this one change would at least raise power builds enough to be competetive in both PvP and WvW. Certainly not top tier like other classes, but enough to make it feel like you could actually win as opposed to an insurmountable brick wall all the time.

That all said… people shouldn’t compare skill X on class A to skill Y on class B. Just because another class has something similar and the Ranger would get more tacked onto doesn’t make the skill overpowered. It’s still in the hands of a Ranger afterall.

To the last part, true, but I can compare performing a particular role on a particular team composition with how rangers compete at performing that role based on the actions we can perform. And that being said, either the ranger was never meant to perform the role of a PvP roamer (moving from point to point to help team fights primarily with damage, back/counter capping as necessary) on a power build, then the weapons are even more poorly designed than anybody could have ever imagined lol.

It’s just a simple case of “assuming equal outputs,” so that, assuming equal outputs (even if one is burst and one is over time, but that is a debate of the effectiveness of the delivery mechanic and not the actual value), why are other classes being chosen to fill this role, and what is holding ranger back from being a competitively viable option.

All of that aside, I agree with your suggestions more than my own. Though I’m always up in the air about your fast hands suggestion. Not because I don’t like it, but because most of our weapons cooldowns aren’t conducive to early swaps, so if you take something like LB/GS, even if you can swap more often, it wouldn’t really change how often the skills could be used to the point where it would make an effective difference. It would make full melee builds a ton stronger than they already are though.

Warriors make fast hands work arguably because it grants them adrenaline and lets them swap right into a burst skill. For rangers though, unless some cooldowns get toggled I have a hard time seeing how much more beneficial it really is, especially with sigil cooldowns and out 1/3 Skirmishing traits both also having 9s ICDs.

Still, I like your ideas on the matter better than my own. They are more efficient.

I still have no idea how people are arguing and disagreeing that our power builds are lacking and that they need either a increase in damage, utility, or a lesser mixture of both. Like, Eurantien might not share the reasoning behind any of my sentiments and I would take his word over mine any day, but he is one of the best (visible, there are rangers that are good that are more unknown to people) ranger players in the game AND makes power builds work in PvP and will be first to cite any of the general shortcomings of the build(s), and he and I share similar views at the very core of the problems the build(s) face.

I keep advocating for a fast hands trait because I don’t consider LB or GS competitive (imo). Both are support weapons and unfortunately are the only 2 weapons that really work for a power build (again, imo). Unfortunately, LB requires such an enormous trait investment before it even gets close to being competitive that you leave nothing to support your offhand. This leaves the ranger needing GS to fill in the holes that LB has (burst and escaping a train) but not being able to support the weapon through traits once you swap to it. So if you don’t kill the target within seconds of swapping to the weapon, you effectively give your opponent a free 5-10 seconds to beat you while you wait for maul to come off cooldown or to swap back to LB. If you use the GS to defend yourself and escape, you’re once again left with nothing to do for 5-10 seconds because you can’t reposition and reattack on the fly.

This is why I’m such a strong advocate for the longbow needing ANY kind of burst. The weapon just doesn’t do anything. It’s a support weapon designed better at shooting someone till they’re close so you can swap and use something else. But the investment required to use LB in the first place doesn’t support this kind of playstyle.

A fast hands trait will not fix either LB or GS as both are still half a weapon individually. But the 2 weapons together actually have everything a power build needs and the only thing holding both of them back is the the dead time after you’ve used the cooldowns on each.

Why don’t you consider 1h sword a power weapon? Especially since warhorn and offhand axe are both 100% power based. Offhand dagger is also self-support as much as it is condi.

The two ranger melee sets work so beautifully together. Back in beta or whenever it was I first tried PvPing on a ranger, the first thing I noticed was how you could sword3 behind an opponent and then gs5 bash him in the back of the head in to a gs2. It doesn’t work that well anymore since people aren’t ignorant of skills, but at any rate they compliment each other really well. GS isn’t just support.

Because I mostly GvG and group roam as opposed to solo roam and PvP and the weapons fall flat in this area in my opinion. But if you want to discuss this we can move to another thread as I don’t want to sidetrack this thread away from the ‘one thing this class needs’ angle.

@Atherakhia.4086;
I definitely see what you’re saying about the Fast Hands trait and how it would be useful. I just don’t think that the Cooldowns are conducive to 5 second weapon swaps is all. Like, you are going to hit a point where all you are doing is weapon swapping and autoattacking with one of the weapons unless at some point you don’t take advantage of a 5 second swap time.

BUT, you gave me a very great idea for a trait that would give you what you want (I think) and create a very, very fun style of gameplay.

First, remove the ICD on the Skirmishing 1/3 swap traits. Then, new Grandmaster Skirmishing trait (ideally replacing Striders BS): “100% chance on crit to recharge Weapon Swap and Pet swap. 5 second ICD.”

I dunno how you would like that though, but I would love that, and it would give a whole lot of builds some love all at once. Yes, I totally ripped it off from Fresh Air for eles lol.

Fluffball.8307:

Rangers already have more condi removal options than the other professions to the point we can basically render ourselves completely immune to them

wut

ilr.9675:

Fluffball.8307:

Rangers already have more condi removal options than the other professions to the point we can basically render ourselves completely immune to them

wut

Welcome to being a ranger. Wiki it.

ilr.9675:

Fluffball.8307:

Rangers already have more condi removal options than the other professions to the point we can basically render ourselves completely immune to them

wut

• Empathetic Bond is 3 every 10s
• Signet of Renewal is 1 every 10s
• Survival of the Fittest removes 2 conditions with a potential 5 survival skills on your bar
• Bear is 2 every 25s in an AoE
• Sigils is another 2 every 10s if you fancy it
• Healing Spring
• Evasive Purity
• Elite Spirit

Have i missed anything?

The only apprehension I have is if the longbow gets pushed into the “2good2change” section in PvP, it will leave no room for improvements in PvE, where the weapon still suffers.

You’re a ways away from that HHR. Longbow would need to nearly double to get into 1h sword territory for PvE which itself needs a 30-50% increase just to scratch the surface of Thief or Warrior.

Atherakhia.4086:

You’re a ways away from that HHR. Longbow would need to nearly double to get into 1h sword territory for PvE which itself needs a 30-50% increase just to scratch the surface of Thief or Warrior.

I know
That thought makes me smiling although it shouldn’t, which makes me smiling even more.

Atherakhia.4086:

I keep advocating for a fast hands trait because I don’t consider LB or GS competitive (imo). Both are support weapons and unfortunately are the only 2 weapons that really work for a power build (again, imo). Unfortunately, LB requires such an enormous trait investment before it even gets close to being competitive that you leave nothing to support your offhand. This leaves the ranger needing GS to fill in the holes that LB has (burst and escaping a train) but not being able to support the weapon through traits once you swap to it. So if you don’t kill the target within seconds of swapping to the weapon, you effectively give your opponent a free 5-10 seconds to beat you while you wait for maul to come off cooldown or to swap back to LB. If you use the GS to defend yourself and escape, you’re once again left with nothing to do for 5-10 seconds because you can’t reposition and reattack on the fly.

This is why I’m such a strong advocate for the longbow needing ANY kind of burst. The weapon just doesn’t do anything. It’s a support weapon designed better at shooting someone till they’re close so you can swap and use something else. But the investment required to use LB in the first place doesn’t support this kind of playstyle.

A fast hands trait will not fix either LB or GS as both are still half a weapon individually. But the 2 weapons together actually have everything a power build needs and the only thing holding both of them back is the the dead time after you’ve used the cooldowns on each.

This is surprisingly spot on. Give Rangers the equivalent of Fast Hands and they will suddenly become much more viable. GS and LB have great sinergy together that’s wasted on that weapon swap CD, sadly.

Power Rangers are almost there actually, give them Fast Hands, reduce Markmanship LB traits bloat, provide them a little more sustain and more condi protection on proper trait lines that actually benefit a Power focused Ranger and you’ll be set.

jcbroe.4329:

BUT, you gave me a very great idea for a trait that would give you what you want (I think) and create a very, very fun style of gameplay.

First, remove the ICD on the Skirmishing 1/3 swap traits. Then, new Grandmaster Skirmishing trait (ideally replacing Striders BS): “100% chance on crit to recharge Weapon Swap and Pet swap. 5 second ICD.”

Oh I would so use that trait – zephyr’s speed mayhem!

OGDeadHead.8326:

jcbroe.4329:

BUT, you gave me a very great idea for a trait that would give you what you want (I think) and create a very, very fun style of gameplay.

First, remove the ICD on the Skirmishing 1/3 swap traits. Then, new Grandmaster Skirmishing trait (ideally replacing Striders BS): “100% chance on crit to recharge Weapon Swap and Pet swap. 5 second ICD.”

Oh I would so use that trait – zephyr’s speed mayhem!

My issue with that trait is you kind of move the Ranger back into the problems it has had since release with condition removal—you’ve removed any hope of getting EB or SotF. It’s very hard going back to a 6/6/2 build after playing something like 6/2/0/6 for awhile.

Atherakhia.4086:

OGDeadHead.8326:

jcbroe.4329:

BUT, you gave me a very great idea for a trait that would give you what you want (I think) and create a very, very fun style of gameplay.

First, remove the ICD on the Skirmishing 1/3 swap traits. Then, new Grandmaster Skirmishing trait (ideally replacing Striders BS): “100% chance on crit to recharge Weapon Swap and Pet swap. 5 second ICD.”

Oh I would so use that trait – zephyr’s speed mayhem!

My issue with that trait is you kind of move the Ranger back into the problems it has had since release with condition removal—you’ve removed any hope of getting EB or SotF. It’s very hard going back to a 6/6/2 build after playing something like 6/2/0/6 for awhile.

Yeah but, as far as PvP direct damage builds go (excluding warrior, everybody knows warriors are in a ridiculous spot), it isn’t like we lack condi removal compared to a typical 2/6/0/0/6 thief (or 2/0/0/6/6 thief), 4/4/0/0/6 Shatter mesmer, 2/1/6/1/4 Meditation damage guardian, etc, etc, etc.

I actual thought that with the suggestion, the main concern that would be brought up that in order to pick up utilities like EB and SotF, which you can definitely still do, that you would have to sacrifice longbow traits, at which point I would say that the only trait the longbow ever feels like it NEEDS as a baseline function (to me) is Read the Wind.

However, merging Piercing Arrows into Quickdraw would bypass another issue with the heavy trait investment the longbow feels like it needs out of the marksmanship line.

I would also argue that the BM 5 minor should replace the 1 spot entirely, and the new 5 spot should remove 2 conditions on Pet swap. I will forever be in agreement with certain top PvP players I’ve spoken to that think that we need a condition removal on pet swap trait in the BM line so that it synergies better with power builds that want to invest into the pet and NOT take traited survival skills for condi removal.

All in all though, I think with the suggestion, the biggest advantage everybody should be thinking about when considering it is how it would finally bandaid fix the pet mechanic versus content it melts to and WvW blobs that melt the pets since we would be able to recharge the pet swap.

I agree read the wind should be baseline. It feels like you have to pretty much go a little glassy to make longbow useable.