99% chance shortbow rework Inc?
i wish it too. But we already know better than to have expectations, don’t we Justine?
If they touched sword, they -may- have touched other weapons. That said, they could have also just dealt with Sword and done numeric/functionality changes elsewhere (if even that) without addressing Shortbow at all beyond adding a new one.
We’ll have to wait and see.
I’m not sure, but the thread discussing the new Legendary Shortbow and the limitations on classes, as well as its uses for those classes is being looked over. If I would have to guess a % on a rework, I would say 0%. Small buffs on the other hand, 10%.
PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.
Will update once Path of Fire releases.
btw. Whats the problem with shortbow? its amazing!
i hope so and they should rewark greatsword as well , not animation but what they want that wepon to be? ashild only pvp wep ? dps? – since skill to is a blast finsher witch actully not hit that hard then skil 1
i hope so and they should rewark greatsword as well , not animation but what they want that wepon to be? ashild only pvp wep ? dps? – since skill to is a blast finsher witch actully not hit that hard then skil 1
>Greatsword
I think its actually pretty good. Built in Evade on Swoop (which also gets to be a leap finisher)/AA3, a decent blocking skill, Maul and Hilt Bash for Spiking./CC…
The only thing I’d ask for would be a slightly lower cooldown on Hilt Bash and the ability to choose when to use the Kick knockback after blocking something with GS4 (similar to Bandit’s Defense, but then it would have to change between the sword throw/kick if our target’s out of range or something) or -maybe- a slight damage buff from Two-Handed Training tbqh..
Even that stuff feels like asking for a lot since the weapon’s in a better spot than Staff/Shortbow imo
(edited by Euthymias.7984)
btw. Whats the problem with shortbow? its amazing!
I wouldn’t mind its old attack speed back, or letting it bleed from the front, or changing the poison to a channel/or one shot placing multiple stacks, so it stays affective outside of point blank range. I’d really like to see torment added to the 4th skill, a3 second cripple is crap. Quick shot should be changed from swiftness to super speed.
And light on your feet is so mediocre I don’t even know where to begin….
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
btw. Whats the problem with shortbow? its amazing!
Crossfire’s incredibly impractical. Even in PvP and in PvE, its not really worth potentially positioning yourself away from your allies and boons for a single bleedstack
Poison Volley requires almost point blank range to get its maximum effect, when it could be something closer to rapid fire to stack poison better.
Quickshot’s okay, but Swiftness is already easily attainable from all of the boons flying around, especially from traited shouts. A lot of people have suggested Superspeed as an alternative.
Crippling Shot’s incredibly underwhelming, for its cooldown. If it had a longer Cripple (our traits surrounding that condition don’t even affect its duration…) or even applied something like Torment as Puck suggested, it would be alright.
Concussion Shot’s cooldown feels unwarranted for a 1s Daze/Stun. If it were lower and/or added an additional effect like Confusion for a successful interrupt, it would feel more inline with Shortbow’s nature as a skirmishing ranged condition weapon.
Puck’s also right about Light on Your Feet being mediocre… Imo, it should just be similar to ambidexterity where you gain condition damage/duration for wielding a shortbow instead of a boon at the very least, especially for being a GM tier trait.
(edited by Euthymias.7984)
DPS wise Shortbow is fine.
It does, however, feel way too … passive. You technically run around applying bleeds. There’s nothing else to reward you from hitting a button.
25sec CD on a microdaze doesn’t really make a difference.
Most our weapons have serious QoL issues. Shortbow is just one of them. Having some abilities adjusted here and there would definitely be nice but I don’t think Shortbow is the alarming weapon.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
btw. Whats the problem with shortbow? its amazing!
Puck’s also right about Light on Your Feet being mediocre… Imo, it should just be similar to ambidexterity where you gain condition damage/duration for wielding a shortbow instead of a boon at the very least, especially for being a GM tier trait.
Shortbow is so bad that you could easily take some of the LoYF stuff and make it baseline (20% skill reduction and piercing). I would then make Quick Shot grant superspeed and make LoYF then extend all applied superspeed by 2s in place of the Shortbow specific stuff.
Personally, I think they won’t change the shortbow. Changing sword auto attack is already a lot.
And I say that even if I think that they totally forgot to balance the shortbow after the bleed change (I could say the same for sharpening stone though). The best way to handle the shortbow would be to remove the flanking thing necessary to the bleeding effect. As for light on your feet… the idea was bad from the very begining.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
It just hit me,
sword AA change + legendary shortbow inc = shortbow rework
What % chance do you give it?
Less than 5%.
Legendary is done by a different team than balance.
Balance guys already made a “major” change to Ranger’s via the Sword AA, and even if they had the time won’t want to rock the boat any more in a single patch.
Too many changes undoubtably summons the nerf bat.
It just hit me,
sword AA change + legendary shortbow inc = shortbow rework
What % chance do you give it?
Less than 5%.
Legendary is done by a different team than balance.
Balance guys already made a “major” change to Ranger’s via the Sword AA, and even if they had the time won’t want to rock the boat any more in a single patch.
Too many changes undoubtably summons the nerf bat.
although im afraid you are right, the truth is that ranger needs deeps rework to make it work better with the pet and to fix all that bugs\clunky mechanics
I hope it’s a complete rework, not just a buff. Shortbow is so boring
I’d be content just to get the old attack speed or range back. Longbow’s base range was increased, so shortbow doesn’t need to be a 900 range weapon to be different from it anymore.
And it’s kind of dumb that I can throw an axe the same distance I can fire an arrow.
I’d be content just to get the old attack speed or range back. Longbow’s base range was increased, so shortbow doesn’t need to be a 900 range weapon to be different from it anymore.
And it’s kind of dumb that I can throw an axe the same distance I can fire an arrow.
Axe can bounce much further. 900 is the initial range when thinking this way. Just saying.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I’d be content just to get the old attack speed or range back. Longbow’s base range was increased, so shortbow doesn’t need to be a 900 range weapon to be different from it anymore.
And it’s kind of dumb that I can throw an axe the same distance I can fire an arrow.
Axe can bounce much further. 900 is the initial range when thinking this way. Just saying.
That’s true. So that’s even WORSE!
Granted I also have issues with the fact we have an infinite number of huge axes in our pockets apparently. But that isn’t any worse than the fact we literally THROW our greatsword and just… Pull out another….
Rangers have some really weird weapon skills.
Wow. I disagree with all of you on all of these points lol. I’m not saying you are wrong, but i just never noticed any of the things you have mentioned. To me shortbow is awesome because I know how and when to use each skill.
Concussive Shot
One second is a crappy Daze, but it s more than enough time to proc ancient seeds
Poison Volley
I’ve never had a problem making this Skill work for me. Maybe it’s because I’m always up in the face of my enemy.
Quick Shot
Evade+Attack+Swiftness on a short cool down. You’re right. nothing wrong with quick shot
Crippling Shot
Still don’t understand why people have a problem with it’s used to slow your opponent down long enough for you to get in close. It does that, just fine.
IMO you all want a weapon do be able to work exactly how you want it. you want to place large stacks of bleeding and poison with one or two attacks. All of the problems mentioned above about short bow come down to this. You want to apply all 5 stacks of poison from poison volley to one opponent with one shot., you want to be able to daze people longer with Concussive shot, you want to be able to apply bleeding to your opponent with every shot from any direction with crossfire.
That’s not how a ranger is supposed to be played. Its not how any profession should be played. A ranger is a mobile, skirmisher, who excels in either long range power based combat, or quick, get-in-get-out strikes. Shortbow does not have an evade to put distance between your enemy. It has an evade as a bait’n’switch which allows you to stay alive a bi longer. That’s why you can swap to your secondary weapon mid leap.
Along the same lines the sword has an evade that turns into a leap back to about where you started for the same reason. Ever notice that the delay between both is just enough time to drop a trap, or activate a utility skill, or use your second evade? you can even swap to shortbow mid evade, put out a concussive shot into an quick shot (procing ancient seeds if you have it) and then lay into them with crossfire.
There are so many combos with the ranger’s weapon sets that listing them all would be pointless here. I can understand getting rid of the gap closer on the sword. I for one liked it, but i understand it and i can accept it. but changing the shortbow? No.
Wow. I disagree with all of you on all of these points lol. I’m not saying you are wrong, but i just never noticed any of the things you have mentioned. To me shortbow is awesome because I know how and when to use each skill.
Concussive Shot
One second is a crappy Daze, but it s more than enough time to proc ancient seedsPoison Volley
I’ve never had a problem making this Skill work for me. Maybe it’s because I’m always up in the face of my enemy.Quick Shot
Evade+Attack+Swiftness on a short cool down. You’re right. nothing wrong with quick shotCrippling Shot
Still don’t understand why people have a problem with it’s used to slow your opponent down long enough for you to get in close. It does that, just fine.IMO you all want a weapon do be able to work exactly how you want it. you want to place large stacks of bleeding and poison with one or two attacks. All of the problems mentioned above about short bow come down to this. You want to apply all 5 stacks of poison from poison volley to one opponent with one shot., you want to be able to daze people longer with Concussive shot, you want to be able to apply bleeding to your opponent with every shot from any direction with crossfire.
That’s not how a ranger is supposed to be played. Its not how any profession should be played. A ranger is a mobile, skirmisher, who excels in either long range power based combat, or quick, get-in-get-out strikes. Shortbow does not have an evade to put distance between your enemy. It has an evade as a bait’n’switch which allows you to stay alive a bi longer. That’s why you can swap to your secondary weapon mid leap.
Along the same lines the sword has an evade that turns into a leap back to about where you started for the same reason. Ever notice that the delay between both is just enough time to drop a trap, or activate a utility skill, or use your second evade? you can even swap to shortbow mid evade, put out a concussive shot into an quick shot (procing ancient seeds if you have it) and then lay into them with crossfire.
There are so many combos with the ranger’s weapon sets that listing them all would be pointless here. I can understand getting rid of the gap closer on the sword. I for one liked it, but i understand it and i can accept it. but changing the shortbow? No.
dude that the bigfest pile of crap ive read in a long time. its a general consensus that shortbow is just underwhelming in its current state.
i never understood the reasons behind the nerf in the range… they are two very different weapons, only just because they are build for two different kind of builds.
most vets here ive already pointed out: the sb doesnt need much of a rework, just some buffs to become the ranged condi weapon its skills seem to point to.
dude that the bigfest pile of crap ive read in a long time. its a general consensus that shortbow is just underwhelming in its current state.
i never understood the reasons behind the nerf in the range… they are two very different weapons, only just because they are build for two different kind of builds.
most vets here ive already pointed out: the sb doesnt need much of a rework, just some buffs to become the ranged condi weapon its skills seem to point to.
Underwhelming in PvP perhaps, but for raiding/high end PvE it’s part of the strongest build available to rangers right now.
I view it as a close/mid range skirmishing weapon that rewards you being able to quickly circle strafe to reposition around an enemy or boss. Removing the flanking requirement on crossfire would just make it another brainless long-range weapon.
idk, whenever I see a ranger running with a shortbow I just think to myself “Oh sweet summer child, why do you do this to yourself” as I stomp him. It just tickles, it doesn’t make me think ooooh I’m so scared right now, there’s no way I will survive! I really hope they rework it and bring it back to its former glory.
i hope so and they should rewark greatsword as well , not animation but what they want that wepon to be? ashild only pvp wep ? dps? – since skill to is a blast finsher witch actully not hit that hard then skil 1
>Greatsword
I think its actually pretty good. Built in Evade on Swoop (which also gets to be a leap finisher)/AA3, a decent blocking skill, Maul and Hilt Bash for Spiking./CC…
The only thing I’d ask for would be a slightly lower cooldown on Hilt Bash and the ability to choose when to use the Kick knockback after blocking something with GS4 (similar to Bandit’s Defense, but then it would have to change between the sword throw/kick if our target’s out of range or something) or -maybe- a slight damage buff from Two-Handed Training tbqh..
Even that stuff feels like asking for a lot since the weapon’s in a better spot than Staff/Shortbow imo
Oh, if only Maul was a blast finisher, I’d be so happy. I mean, it’s a bear after all! If you blow your puny little horn that makes fart sounds it turns into a blast finisher, but a bear smashing and stomping around can’t do that? :<
Froudactyl // Herp Derp Druid // Judge Legends [JDGE] // Seafarer’s Rest
Underwhelming in PvP perhaps, but for raiding/high end PvE it’s part of the strongest build available to rangers right now.
I’m pretty sure that goes to Axe+Torch when it comes to straight up Condition damage. Most others Ive seen use either Sword/Axe and Longbow/Staff for Power/Healing focused builds, but hey, you can run almost anything in PvE and be pretty successful.
idk, whenever I see a ranger running with a shortbow I just think to myself “Oh sweet summer child, why do you do this to yourself” as I stomp him. It just tickles, it doesn’t make me think ooooh I’m so scared right now, there’s no way I will survive! I really hope they rework it and bring it back to its former glory.
Oh, if only Maul was a blast finisher, I’d be so happy. I mean, it’s a bear after all! If you blow your puny little horn that makes fart sounds it turns into a blast finisher, but a bear smashing and stomping around can’t do that? :<
Its a fun idea, but they’d probably nerf the fug outta Maul while making it a Blast Finisher too. We can’t always have nice things, but it could be worse. ^:)
IMO you all want a weapon do be able to work exactly how you want it. you want to place large stacks of bleeding and poison with one or two attacks. All of the problems mentioned above about short bow come down to this. You want to apply all 5 stacks of poison from poison volley to one opponent with one shot., you want to be able to daze people longer with Concussive shot, you want to be able to apply bleeding to your opponent with every shot from any direction with crossfire.
Actually, what I’d want is for it to be a ranged condition weapon that can actually keep pressuring your target with stacking conditions. Even in another thread, I had hoped for something along the line of Crossfire bleeding every 2 attacks, while rewarding you an additional stack if you’re flanking.
It doesn’t make much sense for a weapon to have 900 range but still require you to be within 300 in the case of Poison Volley to get mileage out of that skill, but if you’d rather it be another Blunderbuss, then whatever.
That’s not how a ranger is supposed to be played. Its not how any profession should be played. A ranger is a mobile, skirmisher, who excels in either long range power based combat, or quick, get-in-get-out strikes. Shortbow does not have an evade to put distance between your enemy. It has an evade as a bait’n’switch which allows you to stay alive a bi longer. That’s why you can swap to your secondary weapon mid leap.
Every weapon set has combos. Shortbow isn’t some special exception to the rule.. Just as there’s no one way to use Shortbow’s evade, be it as a “bait and switch” as you call it, to put distance between you and someone else when they attempt to gap close, to reposition yourself, or to just get some evade frames when immobilized. The Swiftness aspect is what was being discussed because that part is mostly pointless with that boon being extremely common.
Along the same lines the sword has an evade that turns into a leap back to about where you started for the same reason.
Sword’s also primarily a melee weapon and therefore has a lower effective range, unlike Shortbow. There will be many times where you may need to get out of Melee range for one reason or another (hence leaping out with e-frames) or stay in while evading (Sword 3, Dagger 4, and all of GS’ evades), so they have skills that work with that in mind.
. On another note, justifying a core weapon’s mediocre daze/stun (which has been that way well before Druid existed) because of an Elite Spec’s GM trait is absolutely silly.
There are so many combos with the ranger’s weapon sets that listing them all would be pointless here. I can understand getting rid of the gap closer on the sword. I for one liked it, but i understand it and i can accept it. but changing the shortbow? No.
Well hey, that’s okay if you feel like Shortbow is totally fine, but it doesn’t seem like many agree with you just because its still usable despite underperforming.
(edited by Euthymias.7984)
Underwhelming in PvP perhaps, but for raiding/high end PvE it’s part of the strongest build available to rangers right now.
I wonder what you gain by taking SB in your condi weapon set. Evade? no. Really short stun? Probably not. I believe that on second set taking a dagger instead to just replace the torch would be more valuable than the shortbow. The shortbow’s auto attack (power wise) is one of the worst in game (not even sur that it reach the necro’s scepter auto attack) and doesn’t even bleed it’s foes reliably. Come on, even the bleed duration is laughable, this is really a cheap reward for all the trouble asked.
NB.: Before they nerfed SB range and auto attack speed, the Shortbow was a good power weapon (just due to it’s auto attack). Now, condition wise or power wise it’s the same : disappointing.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
Underwhelming in PvP perhaps, but for raiding/high end PvE it’s part of the strongest build available to rangers right now.
I wonder what you gain by taking SB in your condi weapon set. Evade? no. Really short stun? Probably not. I believe that on second set taking a dagger instead to just replace the torch would be more valuable than the shortbow. The shortbow’s auto attack (power wise) is one of the worst in game (not even sur that it reach the necro’s scepter auto attack) and doesn’t even bleed it’s foes reliably. Come on, even the bleed duration is laughable, this is really a cheap reward for all the trouble asked.
NB.: Before they nerfed SB range and auto attack speed, the Shortbow was a good power weapon (just due to it’s auto attack). Now, condition wise or power wise it’s the same : disappointing.
It’s pretty much just good for crit bleed builds. The bleeds are short duration but stack very quickly which makes it very hard to cleanse. It would be a hell of a lot better if crossfire wasn’t so situational though.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Underwhelming in PvP perhaps, but for raiding/high end PvE it’s part of the strongest build available to rangers right now.
I wonder what you gain by taking SB in your condi weapon set. Evade? no. Really short stun? Probably not. I believe that on second set taking a dagger instead to just replace the torch would be more valuable than the shortbow. The shortbow’s auto attack (power wise) is one of the worst in game (not even sur that it reach the necro’s scepter auto attack) and doesn’t even bleed it’s foes reliably. Come on, even the bleed duration is laughable, this is really a cheap reward for all the trouble asked.
NB.: Before they nerfed SB range and auto attack speed, the Shortbow was a good power weapon (just due to it’s auto attack). Now, condition wise or power wise it’s the same : disappointing.
The ~6s of bleeding from flanked autoattacks plus extra bleeding from sharpened edges combined with the insanely high attack speed of the shortbow with quickness is easily enough to upkeep around 30+ bleed stacks. Poison volley is also a very nice burst application of poison when used in melee.
The evade and stun are just nice extras.
I’m pretty sure that goes to Axe+Torch when it comes to straight up Condition damage.
I thought so too, but after doing some testing you can achieve higher condition damage over time when using a shortbow + Axe/Torch on swap. Assuming you have alacrity and can flank the boss. The reason for this is that you can double cast bonfire on the A/T set then switch back to SB to minimise condition downtime.
… <snip>
The evade and stun are just nice extras.
… <snip>
The cooldowns and durations are just not in line.
They are extras but not really balanced.
The weapon is awesome for PvE because it’s DPS is fine. Not because if has stuff to offer. In PvP I remember myself when I started using the weapon. After like 2 days of SBing mashing all buttons up and down left and right ~7 people whispered me that I am a cool #1 spammer.
… And that’s when it hit me. I stopped using all the abilities for 1 match and felt close to zero difference. There was literally no significance in using the abilities. They do not feel rewarding enough and they do (did) not have any true purpose.
I’m still not sure how significant they have been made with the changes.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
if by rework you mean minor buff, then you’d be correct. maybe 2017 for that rework?
… And that’s when it hit me. I stopped using all the abilities for 1 match and felt close to zero difference. There was literally no significance in using the abilities. They do not feel rewarding enough and they do (did) not have any true purpose.
yes that’s because skills 1-4 make absolutely no difference in application. Concussive Shot has always been wonderful, but it’s not enough to make SB viable.