Guild Wars 2

Its not fun being a ranger and the first reaction you get in wvw is .." oh you are a ranger". Or when you look around for wvw guilds and the only thing they say " not rangers"

I think the power of 1500+ range Piercing Arrows is dearly underestimated in WvW.

But the Ranger is an unreliable and useless class, so I can’t blame them. Reliability and usefulness are both very important.

In fact, the only reliable team support skill Rangers have is Spotter. But noone cares about that if instead of a Ranger you could be a Guardian that gives 60 stacks of might within 2.5 seconds with Empower (Staff 4) or a Warrior with multiple indestructable Banners that each give stronger buffs. To compete with that, the Ranger’s Spirits would need to become indestructable and trigger 100% of the time without any traits.

It’s all about being the most reliability and useful class in WvW and the Ranger is at the bottom of that list.

I just play ranger in WvW because I like the playstyle, not because it’s the most useful and reliable class. Thieves often aren’t welcome for the same reasons, but at least they can bring AoE stealth. Mesmers can bring portals, AoE quickness and Veil (stealth). Elementalists have great AoE skills and Necromancer as well. Engineer is in a bit of trouble too.

Rangers simply aren’t wanted compared to other classes. The only original thing Ranger has is 1500+ range Piercing Arrows, but you deal little damage because you have to bring an unreliable pet. And if you go full berserker it’s possible that you die within 3 seconds, so you are unreliable.

So yes a bit sad.

I’m on my way to have all classes at lvl 80, a couple weeks ago I got my engineer to 80 (now I only need thief and ele to finish) and traited granades also have 1500 range, are faster than LB, have a pretty good damage, is AoE, and cause many conditions (bleeding, burn, poison, vulnerability and freezing), can be used in walls and spots where arrows would cause “obstructed”, all that using only 1 utility slot, so you can also have many more support skills.
Ranger is my main, but I would pick a engineer over a LB ranger anytime.

Holland.9351:

I think the power of 1500+ range Piercing Arrows is dearly underestimated in WvW.

Piercing arrows get reflected, rarely hit 5 people, don’t blast combo fields, and the shooter isn’t an additional body to mitigate the 5-targets-max aoe that hits the melee ball. If anything, it is vastly overestimated.

1500+ range Piercing Arrows are good for the one wielding the bow (until he gets noticed by a thief pack) to tag a good few people while staying mostly out of harm’s way. But it’s a net loss to the team compared to a melee contribution imho.

Belzebu.3912:

I’m on my way to have all classes at lvl 80, a couple weeks ago I got my engineer to 80 (now I only need thief and ele to finish) and traited granades also have 1500 range, are faster than LB, have a pretty good damage, is AoE, and cause many conditions (bleeding, burn, poison, vulnerability and freezing), can be used in walls and spots where arrows would cause “obstructed”, all that using only 1 utility slot, so you can also have many more support skills.
Ranger is my main, but I would pick a engineer over a LB ranger anytime.

I would agree with you if the AoE targetting was improved. I just find it very annoying, especially with engineer grenades where all skills are AoE. You really need a multi-button mouse for it I guess. Pressing 1-5 while trying to move with WASD while keeping the right-mouse-button pressed to turn and the cursor to aim and having to trial-and-error to find the max range. Too much of a struggle with the controls.

Wilda.3251:

Its not fun being a ranger and the first reaction you get in wvw is .." oh you are a ranger". Or when you look around for wvw guilds and the only thing they say " not rangers"

Don’t give a darn, and don’t join said Guilds. You don’t play for their enjoyment, but for yours-that’s NOT being selfish, but reality. By not joining such type of groups you are voting for a better community in general, because you’ll be opposing exclusivism “to win.”

In short, what you mention is a community problem-Rangers aren’t like other Professions, nor should they be expected to be (and the argument that “everybody does everything else better” is an exaggeration and a lie.)

No offense to Ranger haters-feel free to disagree.

cafard.8953:

Holland.9351:

I think the power of 1500+ range Piercing Arrows is dearly underestimated in WvW.

Piercing arrows get reflected, rarely hit 5 people, don’t blast combo fields, and the shooter isn’t an additional body to mitigate the 5-targets-max aoe that hits the melee ball. If anything, it is vastly overestimated.

Yes, that’s the general consensus. I think the general consensus is underestimating it.

cafard.8953:

1500+ range Piercing Arrows are good for the one wielding the bow (until he gets noticed by a thief pack) to tag a good few people while staying mostly out of harm’s way. But it’s a net loss to the team compared to a melee contribution imho.

Exactly, it’s unreliable. The contribution of a Ranger longbow is very random. He might die within 3 seconds to a thief or he might tip the scales or anywhere in between. It’s a very broad range. Barrage in a corridor followed by Rapid Fire can be very deadly for a stacked zerg coming in. The single target take-down is also where it shines. With piercing arrows there is no escape. In fact, the more he tries to hide behind others, the more damage the Ranger does. With each added target the ranger does exponentially more damage. Hit 8 targets in a row and you do 8 times more damage than if you didn’t bring Piercing Arrows. Positioning is very important.

It might not be effecient or even effective or even useful or reliable, but I like the playstyle so I play it. However, I also understand that guilds don’t want any Rangers. Guardians and Warriors are very reliable contributors.

At some point as a ranger you need to face the reality that you have to play quite a bit harder on this class to be successful than you would on any other class. It is underpowered. Underpowered is not per se useless, but can we at least agree that this class isn’t on equal footing?

Ranger is this odd mix. It isn’t designed around group utility. You get this feeling that they thought the ranger with pets could be a bit more self sufficient. But you really can’t. Typically, the “roaming class” is faster outside of combat. They tend to play hit and run. We are bloody slow! Seriously needing a signet for speed?

The trouble with a guild that hates rangers is that likely one day, the ranger will be buffed and at the top of the heap. Games work that way. Some other class will get nerfed. Are they planning on having a revolving door of specs and classes?

Of course, the volume of work to get the ranger revamped is high enough that we may never see this happen.

Holland.9351:

I would agree with you if the AoE targetting was improved. I just find it very annoying, especially with engineer grenades where all skills are AoE. You really need a multi-button mouse for it I guess. Pressing 1-5 while trying to move with WASD while keeping the right-mouse-button pressed to turn and the cursor to aim and having to trial-and-error to find the max range. Too much of a struggle with the controls.

With the new AoE option to cast on button release, cast the grenades got much easier, at least for me.
Also that is a player side problem, I agree that play with LB is WAY easier, but we need to agree that grenades have much more potential.

I love ranger, but sadly long range damage isn’t the strongest option for a ranger currently.

Holland.9351:

It might not be effecient or even effective or even useful or reliable, but I like the playstyle so I play it. However, I also understand that guilds don’t want any Rangers. Guardians and Warriors are very reliable contributors.

Oh there’s no denying it’s fun. And as i said, it’s a great way to tag for lootbags too.

The REAL and the only REAL reason that ranger is not welcomed in WvW is becoz ranger has the fewest AOE skills in the game.
While most of other classes have double digital number of AOE skills on their weapons, ranger only has 1.5 (torch 5 can be count as 0.5) AOE skill.
Even if Anet double the LB damage, ranger can be only a 1v1 hero in WvW, group-wise ranger still sucks.
This is design failure and can hardly be changed.
So ranger in WvW —-—- R.I.P

And it’s sad when a ranger is leading a simple zerg that everyone was happy with only to have player who just arrived start going on about “A ranger commanding?” blah blah blah. No one was having any problem until that point and then the anti-ranger taunts came out.

ANeT – improve the ranger class to the point where no one would dare belittle its use. I personally only play a ranger in WvW. I command when needed as well. I’ve led groups on reset night – and been successful. No one complained.

But this anti-ranger attitude needs to cease. And the only way is for ANeT to stop favoring Warrior, Guardian, Thief, etc, etc. and do something major to the ranger in update. One that will surprise all classes with a truly “deadly” update.

How about shorten our barrage wait time by half? Make as powerful as superior arrow carts.

Increase Longbow and shortbow damage by 25% in all ranges.

Let us detect and target stealthed targets. We have pets you know(with higher senses than humans)?

ANeT just do something. Devs????

Ranger in WvW is dead, 90% of all groups/zergs/blobs are necros,guardians or warriors, and thieves or mesmers are better roamers than rangers.

urdriel.8496:

Ranger in WvW is dead, 90% of all groups/zergs/blobs are necros,guardians or warriors, and thieves or mesmers are better roamers than rangers.

I see plenty of rangers roaming about. It’s perfectly suited for this. It’s very survivable, it has gap closers, decent CC and decent damage. What more could you want?

mooty.4560:

urdriel.8496:

Ranger in WvW is dead, 90% of all groups/zergs/blobs are necros,guardians or warriors, and thieves or mesmers are better roamers than rangers.

I see plenty of rangers roaming about. It’s perfectly suited for this. It’s very survivable, it has gap closers, decent CC and decent damage. What more could you want?

Burst damage.
Condition cleanse.
Group utility.
Functional pets.

decent, decent and decent, is a good description, jake of all trades master of none, a DECENT roamer thief or mesmer can wipe the floor with a ranger.

tbh, people talk about roaming, im from BB, it is really difficult to have a 1vs1 in gold league roaming camps…

PD: from 19:00 to 20:00 i only saw 2 ranger in the whole Baruch Bay Borderlands( all people use necro,guardian,warrior , sad, but true).

urdriel.8496:

Burst damage.

Rapid Fire and Maul. Maul can be further boosted by the Moment of Clarity trait if you precede it with Hilt Bash and a ’rupt.

Condition cleanse.

Signet of Renewal, Healing Spring, Empathic Bond trait

Between those tools and a set of Melandru’s runes I rarely if ever worry about conditions in PvP of any sort. You can also pick up a Sigil of Purity/Generosity if that’s not enough for you.

Group utility.

Healing Spring(Regen, condition removal, 10 second water field)
Call of the Wild(group wide Swiftness/Fury/Might)
Spirits(damage, utility, heals)

It’s also of note that tanky pets can distract foes in PvE

Functional pets.

Well ok, pets need work for sure.. but they are sometimes still serviceable. I make good use of bears in PvE.

decent, decent and decent, is a good description, jake of all trades master of none, a DECENT roamer thief or mesmer can wipe the floor with a ranger.

Sorry, but I don’t have this problem.

mooty.4560:

urdriel.8496:

Burst damage.

Rapid Fire and Maul. Maul can be further boosted by the Moment of Clarity trait if you precede it with Hilt Bash and a ’rupt.

Condition cleanse.

Signet of Renewal, Healing Spring, Empathic Bond trait

Between those tools and a set of Melandru’s runes I rarely if ever worry about conditions in PvP of any sort. You can also pick up a Sigil of Purity/Generosity if that’s not enough for you.

Group utility.

Healing Spring(Regen, condition removal, 10 second water field)
Call of the Wild(group wide Swiftness/Fury/Might)
Spirits(damage, utility, heals)

It’s also of note that tanky pets can distract foes in PvE

Functional pets.

Well ok, pets need work for sure.. but they are sometimes still serviceable. I make good use of bears in PvE.

decent, decent and decent, is a good description, jake of all trades master of none, a DECENT roamer thief or mesmer can wipe the floor with a ranger.

Sorry, but I don’t have this problem.

Rapid Fire is not real burst. It’s about as strong as our max range shot. Its value is providing reliable damage at short range. Maul is great burst. The problem is you’re then stuck in a awful weapon for damage if maul misses (which is quite often given its animation) or doesn’t kill the target.

The only real condi cleanse available to this class is healing spring, which is an awful condi cleanse because it’s tied to our heal. Empathic Bond isn’t good for burst clearing and needs a 30pt trait. Signet relies on a pet for the active.

Spirits are awful in WvW. Healing Spring is all we bring. Horn, really?

Anything else need discussing? If the horrible state of this class was some kind of conspiracy or a result of an unusual number of bad players being attracted to the class, it wouldn’t be consistently seen as the least useful class in WvW by the majority of players.

Atherakhia.4086:

Rapid Fire is not real burst. It’s about as strong as our max range shot. Its value is providing reliable damage at short range.

Rapid Fire is real burst and can hit upwards of 6-10k without much trade off. It’s very similar to Volley on the Warrior’s Rifle.

Maul is great burst. The problem is you’re then stuck in a awful weapon for damage if maul misses (which is quite often given its animation) or doesn’t kill the target.

Well since you seem to be talking about WvW, I think the Greatsword is the ideal melee weapon for this purpose. You get a stun, some burst, blocks and most importantly you get a solid gap closer in swoop which I think is absolutely crucial for maneuvering the wide open spaces in WvW.

The only real condi cleanse available to this class is healing spring, which is an awful condi cleanse because it’s tied to our heal. Empathic Bond isn’t good for burst clearing and needs a 30pt trait. Signet relies on a pet for the active.

I actually don’t use Healing Spring in WvW because I like to move around a lot. Empathic Bond is well worth it and that trait combined with Signet of Renewal provides excellent passive condition removal. Now, Rangers don’t really have anything in terms of immediate bulk condition removal a la the Warrior’s Mending skill. You could go for Runes of Lyssa but Ranger elite skills have long cooldowns. That much I would agree with but it doesn’t seem to matter in the scheme of things.

Spirits are awful in WvW. Healing Spring is all we bring. Horn, really?

As I mentioned I don’t bring Healing Spring but while I don’t use Warhorn for WvW either, it’s still perfectly viable team utility. I do in fact use it for bunker/support builds in some PvE.

6-10k? 15-20k? Remember this is damage over 5 seconds. Damage that stops your auto attack. That’s not burst. That’s effectively what every other class in the game can do over the same time frame with their basic #1 attack on auto. That’s not burst…

Greatsword has a single damaging attack in maul. Stuns only from behind and is only a brief daze otherwise. And a range closer that deals low damage. There’s really no getting around the simple fact that Greatsword is a support weapon. It can’t hold its own in at anything. Without a trait to swap weapons more often, it doesn’t really compliment anything.

And I also chuckled a little when you list utility this class provides and yet you provide none of it…

You enjoy this class, I’m happy for you. You also play a condi bunker build which is the only viable way this class can be built. And from the sounds of it you only roam, which is the only thing this class excels at.

Lately I’ve been testing out a Nature’s Voice build in WvW so that I’m used to it for Dec. 10th when I theorycraft and test some new builds.

It’s a condi Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch, and when I join in a zerg I tend to be the one on the frontlines pushing.

Not saying that I’m up front destroying everything in my path. Quite the opposite, most of my condis get cleansed by an enemy group, and because I’m not bursting them like my necro does for AoE pressure, really the only thing I’m doing is being a distraction and an annoyance and drawing attention from other people in my zerg and keeping pressure off of them.

That’s better than nothing I guess.

jcbroe.4329:

Lately I’ve been testing out a Nature’s Voice build in WvW so that I’m used to it for Dec. 10th when I theorycraft and test some new builds.

It’s a condi Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch, and when I join in a zerg I tend to be the one on the frontlines pushing.

Not saying that I’m up front destroying everything in my path. Quite the opposite, most of my condis get cleansed by an enemy group, and because I’m not bursting them like my necro does for AoE pressure, really the only thing I’m doing is being a distraction and an annoyance and drawing attention from other people in my zerg and keeping pressure off of them.

That’s better than nothing I guess.

Yes, a condition tank can run front line zerg and rarely die, but you will probably have little to no real effect on the actual fight since most of our skills lack real AoE to apply the conditions to enough people.

That’s another big problem with the class is that we have two distinct builds for WvW and they are incredibly weak if swapped roles. Condition tank does nothing to a zerg and a power build will lose to a condition bunker roamer almost every time.

It’s gotten to the point where I don’t even try to fight Engi’s on a power build because it won’t end in my favor.

jcbroe.4329:

Lately I’ve been testing out a Nature’s Voice build in WvW so that I’m used to it for Dec. 10th when I theorycraft and test some new builds.

It’s a condi Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch, and when I join in a zerg I tend to be the one on the frontlines pushing.

Not saying that I’m up front destroying everything in my path. Quite the opposite, most of my condis get cleansed by an enemy group, and because I’m not bursting them like my necro does for AoE pressure, really the only thing I’m doing is being a distraction and an annoyance and drawing attention from other people in my zerg and keeping pressure off of them.

That’s better than nothing I guess.

I really think you overstate your annoyance/distraction factor. Necro conditions are an annoyance/distraction. Without any real way to spread conditions and our reliance on lengthy cooldowns to deliver AE condis, we really don’t put out any real pressure. At least in the Necros case, they still provide a ton of other things to a group whereas the Ranger doesn’t have those really strong tide turning abilities like so many other classes posses.

Atherakhia.4086:

jcbroe.4329:

Lately I’ve been testing out a Nature’s Voice build in WvW so that I’m used to it for Dec. 10th when I theorycraft and test some new builds.

It’s a condi Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch, and when I join in a zerg I tend to be the one on the frontlines pushing.

Not saying that I’m up front destroying everything in my path. Quite the opposite, most of my condis get cleansed by an enemy group, and because I’m not bursting them like my necro does for AoE pressure, really the only thing I’m doing is being a distraction and an annoyance and drawing attention from other people in my zerg and keeping pressure off of them.

That’s better than nothing I guess.

I really think you overstate your annoyance/distraction factor. Necro conditions are an annoyance/distraction. Without any real way to spread conditions and our reliance on lengthy cooldowns to deliver AE condis, we really don’t put out any real pressure. At least in the Necros case, they still provide a ton of other things to a group whereas the Ranger doesn’t have those really strong tide turning abilities like so many other classes posses.

No, that’s actually the exact point I was trying to make, that the only thing I’m doing, if anything, is throwing a body out there that’s hard to kill, especially since my condi output can be easily cleansed.

So really, it all comes down to the intelligence of the group I hop into. Do they realize that as long as they keep cleansing I’m harmless, or do they actually devote any attention to me?

Either way, I’d probably be more useful sitting at max range with a longbow in my power damage setup, but then people complain and say I need to be more useful then just max range pew pew.

Just the everyday ranger paradox.

If longbow could actually burst things, and not have to rely on a million hits of sustained damage, nobody would complain about rangers “pew pew’ing.” Just like nobody would complain about our condition builds if ANet had bothered to give us options to keep up with the power creep that is the Necromancer.

Atherakhia.4086:

jcbroe.4329:

Lately I’ve been testing out a Nature’s Voice build in WvW so that I’m used to it for Dec. 10th when I theorycraft and test some new builds.

It’s a condi Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch, and when I join in a zerg I tend to be the one on the frontlines pushing.

Not saying that I’m up front destroying everything in my path. Quite the opposite, most of my condis get cleansed by an enemy group, and because I’m not bursting them like my necro does for AoE pressure, really the only thing I’m doing is being a distraction and an annoyance and drawing attention from other people in my zerg and keeping pressure off of them.

That’s better than nothing I guess.

I really think you overstate your annoyance/distraction factor. Necro conditions are an annoyance/distraction. Without any real way to spread conditions and our reliance on lengthy cooldowns to deliver AE condis, we really don’t put out any real pressure. At least in the Necros case, they still provide a ton of other things to a group whereas the Ranger doesn’t have those really strong tide turning abilities like so many other classes posses.

Most of the necro power in zergs comes from marks, Spectral Wall, Well of Corruption and Blind Plague elite. Far from annoyance and distraction as a good few necros can easily turn the tide of any fight.

CRrabbit.1284:

The REAL and the only REAL reason that ranger is not welcomed in WvW is becoz ranger has the fewest AOE skills in the game.
While most of other classes have double digital number of AOE skills on their weapons, ranger only has 1.5 (torch 5 can be count as 0.5) AOE skill.
Even if Anet double the LB damage, ranger can be only a 1v1 hero in WvW, group-wise ranger still sucks.
This is design failure and can hardly be changed.
So ranger in WvW —-—- R.I.P

This is not entirely true. Problem is that ranger have no AoE and no superior utilities to counter lack of dps. Ranger is in same bracket with mesmer on this. Mesmers can barely tag all targets (if they realy try), but they have those few skills that make them must have.
On other side, guardians have everything (and can be taken in same spec), and other proffesions have some of it, depending on a spec (engi lucks something unique as well).
So ye, ranger in wvw is pointless apart from soloing.

It is just not that , necro has a good inbuilt sustain with shroud . We are paper if build for any sort of damage , the only thing going for us defensively was natural vigor and that is being taken from us . We have poor stealth , poor invulnerabilities , poor condition cleanse distribution and our class advantage is more trouble then it is worth .

Atherakhia.4086:

6-10k? 15-20k? Remember this is damage over 5 seconds. Damage that stops your auto attack. That’s not burst. That’s effectively what every other class in the game can do over the same time frame with their basic #1 attack on auto. That’s not burst…

Yes it is burst and it’s far more reliable than the longbow’s auto attack for doing damage. I guarantee you I could dodge your long range shots all game while still nailing you with rapid fire(it can be used on the move, btw). Now if you want to argue that burst needs to be a single packet of damage.. I guess hundred blades isn’t burst, volley isn’t burst, etc.

Greatsword has a single damaging attack in maul. Stuns only from behind and is only a brief daze otherwise. And a range closer that deals low damage. There’s really no getting around the simple fact that Greatsword is a support weapon. It can’t hold its own in at anything. Without a trait to swap weapons more often, it doesn’t really compliment anything.

How is it a support weapon? It’s like most ranger weapons, being a mix of damage and utility. This gives the ranger the ability to perform a number of tasks without team mates spec’d for dedicated roles or having to swap weapons. For instance, I could block your ranged attacks with counterattack, swoop in to cover ground, use maul and auto attack a bit.. then interrupt your heal with a hilt bash once I notice the animation.

And I also chuckled a little when you list utility this class provides and yet you provide none of it…

You mean I don’t use much of it in WvW? That’s because I prefer to roam there using a self sufficient build rather than team support. I use all the things I mentioned elsewhere.

You enjoy this class, I’m happy for you. You also play a condi bunker build which is the only viable way this class can be built. And from the sounds of it you only roam, which is the only thing this class excels at.

Actually I think Ranger condition spec is awful.. just plain awful. I use raw damage and a few bunker traits, more of a hybrid build.

I MAIN a ranger and I LOVE rangers but I really understand that dedicated WvW guilds don´t want rangers. I´m in a pretty decent guild and for guild raids I use my guardian (roaming my ranger).

The difference is my guild don´t say we don´t need RANGERS… they say we don´t need rangers, thies and engineers.

For a “competetive” team these classes bring by far the worst utilities for a big group.
for example:

Guardian: Shouts, Empower, Line of Warding
Warrior: Banners, Hammerstuns, sick AoE damage
Elemetalist: water fields, statics, AoE … AoE …. AoE
Necro: Conditions… Conditions everywhere for everyone. Corrupt Boon effect, Fear
Mesmer: Veil, Teleport, Null Field

All these examples are utilities a big group NEEDS.
We bring some nice little gimicks to a group… like Healing Spring, Warhorn Buff, Entangle…. but overall any of the above brings way more way important utilities.

So just stick to small group/single roaming (we do pretty good here), stick to the commander (no one will care about your build) or search for a more casual guild.

Rapid Fire NOT IS a burst skill, this skill need to have a shorter channel to be considered burst damage.

Spirits in WvW groups??? they die 1/2 sec after you cast the skill.
call of the wild have a long cool down, compared to warrior horn (warriors everywhere)

Healing spring was nerfed , THX Anet.

Empathic bond oh yeah, we need to use 30 points to have a cleanse, but your pet must be ALIVE, and have 10 sec cd, so, is completely random, you CANT choose when use your cleanse.

Healing spring, really nice in 1Vs1 situation to cleanse condis, if you have more than1 foe, you MUST move out of HSpring. or you die.

if you use signet of the hunt to have the active effect of the signet you MUST SPEND 30 points into Markmanship, yes we need 30 point into markamanship to have the active effect of the signet , THX Anet.

are you running a 30/0/30/10/0? signet of beastmaster, empathic bond and 70% spirits.

urdriel.8496:

Rapid Fire NOT IS a burst skill, this skill need to have a shorter channel to be considered burst damage.

This is silly.. where do you suddenly draw the line? What, 3 seconds is burst but not 4.5 seconds? I’ll agree to disagree with this bit.

Spirits in WvW groups??? they die 1/2 sec after you cast the skill.
call of the wild have a long cool down, compared to warrior horn (warriors everywhere)

Spirits can actually be pretty hardy, but they were mentioned as an option for team utility.. whether you want to bring them into WvW or not is another matter.

Empathic bond oh yeah, we need to use 30 points to have a cleanse, but your pet must be ALIVE, and have 10 sec cd, so, is completely random, you CANT choose when use your cleanse.

The wilderness survival trait line is already very good and you should probably spec at least 10-20 pts into it for most any build. What’s a few points more at that stage? Not to mention that 3 conditions removed every 10 seconds, whether on demand or not, is still pretty good. Throw in sigil of renewal and it’s 4, perhaps even skewed with 3 conditions then 1 condition every 5 seconds.

As for my WvW build, I actually run something like 20/20/30/0/0, mostly raw damage with some bunker qualities. I sometimes try to put 5 points into nature magic for the regeneration. I like to roam and skirmish with players, that’s my preferred play style.

ChioChip.5970:

…The difference is my guild don´t say we don´t need RANGERS… they say we don´t need rangers, thies and engineers…

Thiefs are realy important for strong grp set ups (big scale, yes). SB thiefs, 1 or 2. Blast.

mooty.4560:

urdriel.8496:

Rapid Fire NOT IS a burst skill, this skill need to have a shorter channel to be considered burst damage.

This is silly.. where do you suddenly draw the line? What, 3 seconds is burst but not 4.5 seconds? I’ll agree to disagree with this bit.

burst is high damage in a short time, a burst class can kill you in 5-6 seconds.

Orodret.8230:

ChioChip.5970:

…The difference is my guild don´t say we don´t need RANGERS… they say we don´t need rangers, thies and engineers…

Thiefs are realy important for strong grp set ups (big scale, yes). SB thiefs, 1 or 2. Blast.

900 range and, retaliation will kill you.

urdriel.8496:

Orodret.8230:

ChioChip.5970:

…The difference is my guild don´t say we don´t need RANGERS… they say we don´t need rangers, thies and engineers…

Thiefs are realy important for strong grp set ups (big scale, yes). SB thiefs, 1 or 2. Blast.

900 range and, retaliation will kill you.

Stay in mele range(actualy stay in field youre blasting), reduce arow fly time=faster blast efect. Like this guy
http://youtu.be/Rd3pf6Nh-LM
Retaliation is a killer. It will kill all in the end.

Orodret.8230:

urdriel.8496:

Orodret.8230:

ChioChip.5970:

…The difference is my guild don´t say we don´t need RANGERS… they say we don´t need rangers, thies and engineers…

Thiefs are realy important for strong grp set ups (big scale, yes). SB thiefs, 1 or 2. Blast.

900 range and, retaliation will kill you.

Stay in mele range(actualy stay in field youre blasting), reduce arow fly time=faster blast efect. Like this guy
http://youtu.be/Rd3pf6Nh-LM
Retaliation is a killer. It will kill all in the end.

you cant kill a warrior or guardian with retaliation xD

mooty.4560:

Atherakhia.4086:

6-10k? 15-20k? Remember this is damage over 5 seconds. Damage that stops your auto attack. That’s not burst. That’s effectively what every other class in the game can do over the same time frame with their basic #1 attack on auto. That’s not burst…

Yes it is burst and it’s far more reliable than the longbow’s auto attack for doing damage. I guarantee you I could dodge your long range shots all game while still nailing you with rapid fire(it can be used on the move, btw). Now if you want to argue that burst needs to be a single packet of damage.. I guess hundred blades isn’t burst, volley isn’t burst, etc.

The notion that rapid fire is somehow burst is ludicrous.

LB autoattack: 0.9 damage coefficient, 1 sec activation time = 0.9 coeff/sec
LB Rapid Fire: 10x .375 damage coefficient, 4.5 sec activation time = 0.833 coeff/sec

Maul: 1.5 damage coeffcient, 0.75 sec activation time = 2.0 coeff/sec

Warrior GS autoattack: .7, .7, .9 damage coefficient, 2.4 sec cycle time = 0.96 coeff/sec
Hundred blades: 8x .55 damage coefficient, 3.5 sec activation time = 1.26 coeff/sec

Volley: 5x .6 damage coefficient, 2.5 sec activation time = 1.2 coef/sec

Rapid fire isn’t burst.

Ranger can’t burst with bows. I’m starting to think the game starting all new rangers off with an axe was intended to discourage rangers from using a bow. Maul is on a primarily defensive weapon. If a ranger really wants to burst, they should give sword/axe a shot. Path of Scars is the highest DPS skill rangers get (possibly the highest in the game) because it can hit twice. (2 × 1.2 damage coefficient, 0.5 sec activation time = 4.8 coeff/sec).

Holland.9351:

cafard.8953:

Holland.9351:

I think the power of 1500+ range Piercing Arrows is dearly underestimated in WvW.

Piercing arrows get reflected, rarely hit 5 people, don’t blast combo fields, and the shooter isn’t an additional body to mitigate the 5-targets-max aoe that hits the melee ball. If anything, it is vastly overestimated.

Yes, that’s the general consensus. I think the general consensus is underestimating it.

cafard.8953:

1500+ range Piercing Arrows are good for the one wielding the bow (until he gets noticed by a thief pack) to tag a good few people while staying mostly out of harm’s way. But it’s a net loss to the team compared to a melee contribution imho.

Exactly, it’s unreliable. The contribution of a Ranger longbow is very random. He might die within 3 seconds to a thief or he might tip the scales or anywhere in between. It’s a very broad range. Barrage in a corridor followed by Rapid Fire can be very deadly for a stacked zerg coming in. The single target take-down is also where it shines. With piercing arrows there is no escape. In fact, the more he tries to hide behind others, the more damage the Ranger does. With each added target the ranger does exponentially more damage. Hit 8 targets in a row and you do 8 times more damage than if you didn’t bring Piercing Arrows. Positioning is very important.

It might not be effecient or even effective or even useful or reliable, but I like the playstyle so I play it. However, I also understand that guilds don’t want any Rangers. Guardians and Warriors are very reliable contributors.

Do that when the enemy has AoE retaliation and you are dead even before the blob gets near you…