Guild Wars 2

So, as my other similarly titled thread was requesting a nerf for rangers, I decided in order to balance out the equation, I would discuss a very specific utility tree that, as it currently stands, needs to be buffed.

Traps.

Traps are, without a doubt, currently one of the less desirable utilities to be running when talking about choosing a BiS (best in slot) team composition, simply because of how outclassed they are, and how they haven’t been balanced appropriately in order to keep up with the games power creep.

So, let’s compare some utilities. These are going to be done on this basis: the things that are being compared are AoE skills that share a particular function, if not having every function in common. Trap Potency will not be part of this portion of the break down. Direct damage values won’t be a part of this discussion either, as traps basically have garbage direct damage values and the majority of the listed skills will be doing better direct damage than the trap they’re compared to.

So:

Flame Trap: Description is here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Trap

Skills that outclass it with a short description why:

Combustive Shot: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combustive_Shot
This skill is incredibly strong right now. It has a short recharge, and is refilled fairly quickly by any warrior competently managing their adrenaline; much quicker than 15 seconds which is Flame Traps base cooldown. Applies twice as much burning in the same duration as flame trap, and it doesn’t need traits in order to do so, or to have a decent radius. Also, is on a weapon bar and an on demand combo field.

Fire Bomb: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Bomb
This skill could be considered on a weapon bar as well, since technically, as a part of the engineers class design, having access to kits replaces having a second weaponset. Still, it could be argued, so it is more of a grey area thing. That being said, the skill itself has twice the burning output as flame trap does on a 5 second shorter cooldown and carries a very decent base radius to go along with it. Also, it is an on demand combo field.

Ring of Fire: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Fire
Now, I’m admittedly not at liberty to discuss the exacts of this weapon skill since I lack ele experience, however, based on what the wiki is telling me, the skill either applies kitten burn each time somebody passed through it for 6 seconds, or a 1 seconds burn each time somebody passes through it that adds up to 5 (6?). Regardless, it is a 5 second burn on a 15 second cooldown, almost double what Flame Trap is. Also, it is an on demand combo field.

Frost Trap: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Trap

Skills that outclass it with a short description why:

Freeze Grenade: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Freeze_Grenade
At its base, can apply a 4 second AoE chill every 20 seconds (all grenade skills throw 2 grenades out by default, 3 with a grandmaster trait). Distance is a factor on the accuracy, but with my experience with the class, I can say that you will get the 4 second chill within the 600 range traps can be traited to. Also, has a larger radius. And, as with the other engineer kit skill, can be considered part of a weapon bar.

Frozen Ground: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frozen_Ground
This one does have a longer cooldown than Frost Trap. However, it pulses 2 second chills for 5 seconds, which is double the amount of chill frost trap applies, and almost double the duration. Also, it has a larger radius, 1200 range, and is an on demand combo field.

Chillbains: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilblains
Applies a 4 second chill in a single hit at a base 120 radius. Without traits, the radius is slightly smaller. But the recharge is also 10 seconds shorter, and this skill doesn’t have to pulse. And is 1200 range. AND a combo field.

Spike Trap: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spike_Trap

Skills that outclass it with a short description why:

Box of Nails: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Box_of_Nails
Box of Nails pulses, unlike Spike Trap, which applies all of its bleed and cripple up front. However, this is a pros and cons thing, because while it means Box of Nails takes a longer time to reach its damage potential, it is also a better area denial skill, which also gives more chances to proc traits/sigils. Box of Nails also applies less total bleeds, but is only on a 10 second cooldown, and has a larger radius. And, like other engineer kit skills, can be considered part of a weapon bar.

Shrapnel Grenade: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shrapnel_Grenade
Has the same benefits as all other grenades. Applies a stack of 2 bleeds for 12 seconds, to spike traps 3 for 5 seconds, so more damage over time. Also, only has a 5 seconds cooldown period, meaning it can be used 5 times to every 1 spike trap. And, like other engineer kit skills, can be considered part of a weapon bar.

Caltrops: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Caltrops
This one is a pulse as well. However, Caltrops is much better than Box of Nails, applying a 2 second bleed for 3 seconds, every second for 10 seconds. On top of applying cripple every second for 10 seconds. And it only has a 5 second longer cooldown than Spike Trap, with a better radius of course, and better area denial.

Grasping Dead: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grasping_Dead
This skill is insanely strong comparatively. 1 AoE hit applies 3 bleeds for 7 seconds and cripple for 5, every 10 seconds, on a larger radius than Spike Trap. It has already received a PvP only nerf so that it is only 2 bleed stacks, but still outclasses spike trap due to spammability, and being a weapon skill, and having a 900 range. And this is a weapon skill.

Mark of Blood: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mark_of_Blood
1200 range 3 bleeds for 8 seconds (spike trap is only 5 seconds), and applies regen to allies, which is a nice little bonus team support that ranger AoE skills just aren’t really all that great at giving, outside of using them as a conditional combo field (conditional because an enemy has to trigger a trap to give allies access to the combo field. Spike Trap isn’t even a combo field). And this is a weapon skill.

Enfeebling Blood: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enfeebling_Blood
2 Bleeds for 10 seconds which do more damage than spike traps 3 for 5. Also, Enfeebling Blood has the same cooldown but gives the much stronger Weakness versus Spike Traps cripple. And it has a 900 range and a larger radius. And this is a weapon skill.

Ring of Earth: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Earth
Now, the effect of the skill isn’t outright better, but the cooldown is the closing factor. This skill can be used 3 times to every 1 of spike trap, giving it a higher damage potential. And this is a weapon skill.

Cluster Bomb: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cluster_Bomb
3 bleeds for 4 seconds on a fairly spammable, fairly low initiative cost skill. Also has a 900 range, and is a blast finisher, and is a weapon skill. Almost the same duration bleed stacks, but much, much more spammable than spike trap. Much more.

Vipers Nest: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Viper%27s_Nest

Skills that outclass it with a short description why:

Chillbains: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilblains

This does have a longer cooldown and a shorter total poison duration, but it does have the benefits of being a single hit attack on a weapon skill with 1200 range. Also, this skill also chills better than frost trap, which implies better skill bar compression than having to take Frost Trap AND Vipers Nest to get the same effects as Chillbains. And it is a combo field.

Choking Gas: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Choking_Gas
Pulses 4 seconds inflicting 5 second poisons in a larger radius than Vipers Nest. Also, this is unblockable, like traps, has a longer range of 900, is a weapon skill, is a combo field, and is much more spammable.

Poison Grenade: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_Grenade
Puts out 2 poison fields that pulse 5 second poisons for 5 seconds. Has a longer cooldown than Vipers Nest, but is a combo field, and, like all other engineer kits, can be considered part of a weapon skill bar. Also, has a much better effective range than Vipers Nest, and only takes 2 of its five pulses to beat out Vipers Nest entirely.

After Trap Potency, these are the skill that are still better than their respective comparison traps:

Flame Trap:

Fire Bomb
Combustive Shot

Frost Trap:

Freeze Grenade
Frozen Ground
Chillbains

Spike Trap:
Shrapnel Grenade
Grasping Dead
Mark of Blood

Vipers Nest:
Choking Gas
Poison Grenade

That means that with a 30 point trait investment, these other skills are still overall better than their trap versions, and that is with no trait investment into their abilities; meaning that many of them could even further outclass traps.

Normally in games, I dislike balance updates that feed the power creep, but with no end to this particular games power creep issues in sight, I say that our ranger traps definitely need to be brought up to be competitive options when fighting for a slot in a team composition.

I use traps, and they aren’t that bad.

I’m not saying they are bad. I’m saying that there are better options for a team to be using then having a ranger dedicate their build for traps. On their own, they are a good option. The trap build is a good build, useful for soloing camps and just generally picking up some sorely missing AoE skills otherwise.

That being said though, my point is that because they haven’t gotten any love to compete with the games power creep, there are other options on other classes that are just better, which depending on the game mode (like PvP, WvW, and even dungeons), makes a world of difference when looking to optimize your teams composition.

jcbroe.4329:

I’m not saying they are bad. I’m saying that there are better options for a team to be using then having a ranger dedicate their build for traps. On their own, they are a good option. The trap build is a good build, useful for soloing camps and just generally picking up some sorely missing AoE skills otherwise.

That being said though, my point is that because they haven’t gotten any love to compete with the games power creep, there are other options on other classes that are just better, which depending on the game mode (like PvP, WvW, and even dungeons), makes a world of difference when looking to optimize your teams composition.

ahh I got it.
I’m agree with you.

Also, sorry for the length of the thread @everybody. There was a lot of information involved in what I was attempting to highlight.

my suggestions for traps :

1) grandmaster trait condition duration and cooldown reduction removed . Condition duration applied by default , 20% redution moved to the master tier trait

2) physical component damage increased , especially to the spike trap . Making traps useful with power builds

3) new GM tier trait that transfers a conditions from the ranger to people who step in traps .

There, i fixed it and made ranger much more versatile

This class is broken and fixing traps won’t fix it. The direction anet has taken with this class and the mere fact it is completely judged based on tPvP performance alone disgusts me really. I’m kinda done with this class in general but get on it from time to time, engi is much better , mesmer is much better, warrior is much better, thief is much better, even ele is much better … Just about every class is much better than the ranger atm in both 1on1s and in team situations. I play WvW , not PvP so the divide in playerbase truly shows as ranger is probably the most split in terms of performance between those game modes, which is also why I really hate when builds get nerfed in WvW based on PvP performance.

I’ve moved on to smite / dota and playing other random games on steam , this game is just not balanced especially for ranger.

I’ve come up with just about any build you can imagine , i was rocking the 0/0/30/10/30 back when the game first came out and was using that before it was even a thing on the forums. I’ve done might stacking builds, condi traps, power traps, spirit builds, bm hybrids, gc builds, precision builds, you name it. Other classes have much better kitten, and it’s more easily and readily available, it is the way it is with this class. Keep in mind too, I duel top players of their class, not roamers and the brick walls I’ve hit as a ranger against some of the builds they can come up with specifically on mesmer, warriors, engi and even thief are astonishing to me and it’s made me realize one thing, we get balanced primarily based on PvP performance and that alone or else BM / Spirits would have never been touched in WvW.

I agree to some degree traps needs boosts. Flame trap the least, cause it has good cd, and damage is not bad.

Poison trap is underwhelming if you see how much options (weapon skills without utility skill sacrafice) option necro/engie got to apply poison. It should do more then this alone.

Chill trap, this is the big one imo. Chill is powerfull but only when it’s 4-6 secs INSTANTLY stacked, (thus not possible to evade cause it pulses). Secondly 30 sec cd is to much. Look at engie nades, and necro mark. It doesn’t has to be as good as that but buff at least cd to maybe 20 sec. And make base chill 2 sec per pulse. Also our combo finishers suck (compared to warrior lb traited). 20% chance even on speedy shortbow rarely gets combo off, with chilling, and this should be easier for ranger. Basically traps prepare (preparation like gw1), our auto attack bonus effect. It should be more viable however.

Spike trap is nice, but rarely use it except in pvp. It also need potency to have immobalize.

Chokolata.1870:

my suggestions for traps :

1) grandmaster trait condition duration and cooldown reduction removed . Condition duration applied by default , 20% redution moved to the master tier trait

*2) physical component damage increased , especially to the spike trap . Making traps useful with power builds *

3) new GM tier trait that transfers a conditions from the ranger to people who step in traps .

There, i fixed it and made ranger much more versatile

This. Ten billion times, THIS. I’d run traps, except that with my current gear/traits, slotting traps actually lowers my damage potential. The loss of utility/survivability for something that does poor, not even mediocre, but outright poor damage, isn’t worth it.

EDIT: bolding that bit didn’t work. It’s where the asterisks are.