Guild Wars 2

Please, I beg you, put the trap traits “Trapper’s Expertise” and “Trap Potency” in Wilderness Survival trait tree.

Traps have absolutely nothing to do with Skirmishing ( critical chance & critical damage).

Does traps benefit anything at all from critical chance or critical damage?!? Traps are condition based and should therefore be in the Wilderness Survival tree where malice is (condition damage).

You can swap “Trapper’s Expertise” and “Trap Potency” with eg. “Martial Mastery” (which benefits more from Skirmishing) and “Hide in Plain Sight”.

This swap will be easy to apply for you, Anet, and it will not have any impact on profession balance.

It’s really frustrating and unfair that rangers are forced to use 30 points out of 70 points in Skirmishing just to have a trap-build when neither critical chance nor critical damage have any influence on traps!

Please, just put the trap traits where they belong and where they should be in the first place: in Wilderness Survival!

I really hope to see the change in the next patch :-)

I agree. I think all the ranger traits need to be looked at.

awe extender.1908:

Please, I beg you, put the trap traits “Trapper’s Expertise” and “Trap Potency” in Wilderness Survival trait tree.

Traps have absolutely nothing to do with Skirmishing ( critical chance & critical damage).

Does traps benefit anything at all from critical chance or critical damage?!? Traps are condition based and should therefore be in the Wilderness Survival tree where malice is (condition damage).

You can swap “Trapper’s Expertise” and “Trap Potency” with eg. “Martial Mastery” (which benefits more from Skirmishing) and “Hide in Plain Sight”.

This swap will be easy to apply for you, Anet, and it will not have any impact on profession balance.

It’s really frustrating and unfair that rangers are forced to use 30 points out of 70 points in Skirmishing just to have a trap-build when neither critical chance nor critical damage have any influence on traps!

Please, just put the trap traits where they belong and where they should be in the first place: in Wilderness Survival!

I really hope to see the change in the next patch :-)

You are not the only one, its a stupid feature and they probably thought it would bring synergy. It didnt, lets not forget the wilderness line adds condi damage so putting traps there would make ranger synergize better with traps.

The entire ranger trait system is a complete mess?

More news at 11.

Is this a legitimate thread or a desire to push more into a tree many would consider mandatory due to empathic bond? I mean I completely agree that this tree, like every single other tree for this class, is just a total train wreck. But that said, you completely gutted the things that made skirmishing even remotely useful and gave it absolute crap traits in exchange. I mean hide in plain sight should be a freaking signet as it is. Passive do everything the trait does, on use, hide.

Just so much wrong with this class simply reorganizing traits isn’t going to work. Not sure there are enough good ones available to this class to fill 2 trees.

“Just so much wrong with this class simply reorganizing traits isn’t going to work. Not sure there are enough good ones available to this class to fill 2 trees.”

Hear, hear. Let’s take Beast Mastery as an example. It arguably only has about three or four useful traits. Everything else is utterly useless. Likewise for Nature Magic.

I think about 70% of ranger traits are worthless. There is a reason most people who go into a tree pick the same traits.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

I think about 70% of ranger traits are worthless. There is a reason most people who go into a tree pick the same traits.

Yeah. Not once with the ranger was I like “Oh man, I want this, but I also want that”.

domxnik.1453:

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

I think about 70% of ranger traits are worthless. There is a reason most people who go into a tree pick the same traits.

Yeah. Not once with the ranger was I like “Oh man, I want this, but I also want that”.

Exactly, like, its so bad that I use the same traits in any build I make. Its sad, I cant even mix it up because the others either dont synergize or suck. Rdy to kick rocks and be done with this.

Yes, they need to move the trap traits to Wildness Survival… I have no idea why they are in Skirmishing when traps really don’t have anything to do with criticals. Heck, they would make more sense in Marksmanship than Skirmishing… I mean at least the marksmanship trait line provides condition duration synergy…

They should then create new major traits for Skirmishing that provide better synergy and modify the other Skirmishing traits to effect both player and pet (for example: chance to cause bleeding on crit should definitely be one that effects both player and pet).

Call me selfish, but I’m heavy into Skirmishing so I like that trait right where it is. :-)

domxnik.1453:

I agree. I think all the ranger traits need to be looked at.

This. There’s tones of messed up traits that are in places where it makes no sense whatsoever but that isn’t just on ranger. All classes are messedup

Fyrebrand.4859:

Call me selfish, but I’m heavy into Skirmishing so I like that trait right where it is. :-)

Not selfish, thats your preference. But also think of how much more useful it would be if trap traits were in wilderness. You get condi damage, traps, and you can get survivability all in 1 trait line, then you could choose to go 30 BM or mix your traits up more, it would add a ton of trait building because right now you need 30 in skirmishing, which aside from pets prowess and traps its pointless for a condi build. No real synergy.

Nuka Cola.8520:

domxnik.1453:

I agree. I think all the ranger traits need to be looked at.

This. There’s tones of messed up traits that are in places where it makes no sense whatsoever but that isn’t just on ranger. All classes are messedup

Yes but we dont give a kitten about other classes, we care about ranger. ALso Im willing to bet no other class is as messed up as ranger. If you try to argue that I ask for proof, then I will provide counter proof and eventually win in the end. Because ranger traits have no synergy, are boring, bugged or completely useless. Then Ill move onto weapons and utilities, then pets. So yea, lets stick with rangers.

I second Dante’s argument that no other class has a trait system so incredibly messed up as the ranger’s. We have more useless traits than useful, and the few useful traits we have are in the wrong trees (traps being the prime example. Condition based skills of which the accompanying traits are in the crit tree? What the beef?).

Let’s see if the upcoming patch(es) make any significant changes to the ranger. If not, well, then my limit of endurance is all used up. I go with my alt warrior.

You can make a warrior build with around 29000 health and around 2000 power without all the might skills! (2600 power with food and might skills!)

No way you can do the same with a ranger :-( Also with the same build you can buff your entire group with banners! No kitten spirit can match that!

BUMP!

Just a reminder to the responsible team for re-making the trap trait tree.

awe extender.1908:

BUMP!

Just a reminder to the responsible team for re-making the trap trait tree.

For the most part I agree but what are you going to replace these traits with if they move? To me that’s the important question. Not addressing that is a mistake. We need more diversity not less especially in sPVP/tPVP builds.

Ohh no. Don’t you move Martial Mastery. That’s fine just where it is.

It could just have been a thematic decision (granted, a poor one). You’re more likely to need to huck a trap in a “Skirmish”. If you are practicing “Wilderness Survival”, I envision a scenario where you have more time to lay down your trap, so it’s less important to be able to do so at range.

Weak, I know, but I thought I’d give it a try!

The whole trait tree for Rangers needs to be redone. Some traits are just plain out boring (opening strike), a lot are misplace (traps in Skirmishing), and most are simply useless (pet bonuses, spirit traits, the majority of master traits). None of our traits allow for different builds either, other then direct or condition damage.

Hopefully we’ll see some big changes in the february patch. But considering how slow ArenaNet are making profession changes, I’m not holding my breath…

Personally I like the traits where they are, since I use the on weapon swap minors of the skirmishing tree and LOVE them more than is reasonable. What I would find extremely enjoyable though is if the condition duration from marksman was swapped with the skirmishing critical damage. I feel this would minimally impact things overall and not force you to pick and choose between the few good traits that are available to us. Putting traps in marksmanship is not a good idea because the minors do not assist condition builds in any way, whereas the skirmishing minors provide fury (crit—>bleed) and swiftness (no condition weapons give swiftness) which is very important.

I also do not support placing traps into the wilderness survival line as it is supposed to be a defensive line. Doing this would force people to choose between offensive and defensive traits and that is not supposed to be what the tree is about.

Taym.8326:

I also do not support placing traps into the wilderness survival line as it is supposed to be a defensive line. Doing this would force people to choose between offensive and defensive traits and that is not supposed to be what the tree is about.

What you seem not to understand is we are already forced to choose between def and off. Actually we are forced to choose def, we don’t even have a choice.
I totally agree with awe extender the 2 traps traits should be moved to ws tree. This way trap specs will be much better and viable (actually they are viable even now, but if you guys really think traps is the best spec we have and cond bunker>power bunker then you are simply wrong).
Tbh i believe moving traps into ws tree is one of the most important changes this class needs atm.

I keep saying it, I want Utilities in Tier 1 and Weapons in Tier 2. The fact that I can’t go full-bore ranged and traps is a bummer! (Skirmish puts ranged CD, trap CD, and ranged traps into a 2-trait spread, can only pick 2 of the 3).

This way you could get a few points spread into utilities so you didn’t feel locked into one type of utility, and could spread them enough to get any weapon-swap combo into viability.

Devs: You might not like if a player customizes a way you didn’t intend, but that level of flexibility makes people LOVE a class because they don’t feel boxed in or useless.

I agree…the ranger’s trait is a bloody mess. However because i work on precision and traps…the current setup that you are complaining about works in my favour…:) But I still welcome any fixes that Anet does.

Well since we’re totally ignored, abused and forever hated by anet as well as the rest of the GW2 community we might as well just lay down in any pvp and allow them to kill us in an orderly manner.

I’ve done it. Why bother when you can’t possibly have a chance against 1v1, your pet doesn’t work and you are derided constantly by other players as “oh another Ranger, just great”.

anet, grow the heck up and give us the fixes you promised right around launch.

No, I don’t want to play any other character you created, I want my Ranger, with pets,, with traits that make logical sense and have that (as has been said many many many times) ‘gee I’d like that but I have to sacrifice that’ – that your other characters do have.

You want to know what I think is your problem anet? You don’t have a single person, developer, owner who actually hunts… you can’t possibly. This is not reality, it’s worse, it’s not even fantasy.

When you take a wild animal and you take even better care of it – it’s not sleeping in the wilderness alone, it’s not starving half the year, and it’s getting love, why wouldn’t that “pet” no matter whether it’s in fantasy or reality, have the same or better strength that it had before you tamed it.

I’ve said it before and I will say it again – Rangers don’t deserve being treated like the ugly step child who sleeps in the corner and is thrown a crumb or two a day.

We’ve waited, we’ve been patient, we just want our Ranger to finally be the epic character it has always been in fantasy.

atheria.2837:

Why bother when you can’t possibly have a chance against 1v1, your pet doesn’t work and you are derided constantly by other players as “oh another Ranger, just great”.

Ehm…1v1s are one of the few things rangers are good at. Sadly we are forced into 1/2 diff builds and most of our traits are useless/misplaced.

What I want is that Anet takes a look at traps:

Flame Trap:
Set a trap that burns foes.
Damage: 73 (per pulse)
Burning: 1 s (328 damage) (per pulse)
Duration: 3 s
Combo Field: Fire

Frost Trap:
Set a trap that chills foes.
Chilled: 1 s (per second)
Duration: 5 s
Combo Field: Ice

Spike Trap:
Set a trap that bleeds and cripples foes.
3 Bleeding: 5 s (638 damage)
Damage: 49
Crippled: 2 s

Viper’s Nest:
Set a trap that pulses poison on foes when triggered.
Poison: 3 s (252 damage) (per pulse)
Damage (3x): 147

They are all CONDITION based. They should have synergi with MALICE and not precision or crit damage.

Now my original suggestion was (is) to put the trap traits in Wildernes Survival because you have malice there. But as someone suggested you could also swap the trait attributes instead (if that’s a better fix?).

Eg. Skirmishing (where trap traits are) could contain:
Malice (condition dmg) & Expertise (condition duration)

Marksmanship could be:
Power & Crit damage or Precision

Wilderness Survival:
Toughness & Precision or Crit damage

Engineer, guardian, necromancer and warrior have malice and precision in their respective “wilderness survival” tree. So should we. Though I would prefer malice with expertise in WS :-)

Either way, you have to fix the traits.

I will remind this to Anet devs every monday. Hopefully it will find its way to their “to-do list”.

“I second Dante’s argument that no other class has a trait system so incredibly messed up as the ranger’s.”

That made me chuckle, as it is our traits at least work, maybe misplaced, but they function. Necro’s have nine broken traits. Although I do agree that the trait system needs tweaks for our class.

Lunchbox.9543:

“I second Dante’s argument that no other class has a trait system so incredibly messed up as the ranger’s.”

That made me chuckle, as it is our traits at least work, maybe misplaced, but they function. Necro’s have nine broken traits. Although I do agree that the trait system needs tweaks for our class.

We have plenty of traits which do not function.

I totally agree that trap traits should be moved to WS but I wouldn’t hold my breath for it, re-structuring trait lines is a complex task that can damage class balance across the game if done incorrectly. Are we even sure it wasn’t done intentionally to limit trap damage?

Daemon.4295:

I totally agree that trap traits should be moved to WS but I wouldn’t hold my breath for it, re-structuring trait lines is a complex task that can damage class balance across the game if done incorrectly. Are we even sure it wasn’t done intentionally to limit trap damage?

If that was the case they could’ve just nerfed trap damage instead of putting their corresponding traits in the wrong friggin tree.

For some reason this annoys me even more than our slow arrows, braindead pets, and the numerous other issues we have.

Agadar.4931:

Daemon.4295:

I totally agree that trap traits should be moved to WS but I wouldn’t hold my breath for it, re-structuring trait lines is a complex task that can damage class balance across the game if done incorrectly. Are we even sure it wasn’t done intentionally to limit trap damage?

If that was the case they could’ve just nerfed trap damage instead of putting their corresponding traits in the wrong friggin tree.

For some reason this annoys me even more than our slow arrows, braindead pets, and the numerous other issues we have.

I’ve been thinking about this, and it occurred to me that if you could put 30 points into WS for max cond damage and trap traits, then you could put another 30 into BM for a full-out Beastmaster / Trapper. That would be a pretty OP build, really.

I wouldn’s say it would be a pretty OP build, but make more build diversity and perhaps finally reaching the same level as other “OP” classses.

If Anet doesn’t want to put the trap traits in WS ( as they were originally in GW1) they should at least swap prowess (critical damage) in skirmishing with malice (condition damage). So we could get some decent synergy between trap traits and condition damage.

ps. imo, ranger pets should have 30 p in BM as default :-) but that’s another story :-)

Just in pet talents alone, they are spread ALL over the map. Yes this let’s you select several traits just for your pet, but you end up pretty gimpy. Might as well be called a Lion Tamer class, just sit back and watch your pet do the work while you apply small SB “DoTs” for example:

In Marksmanship:
Malicious Training (could be BM)
Beastmasters Bond (could be BM maybe?)
Signet of the Beastmaster (could be BM maybe?) this should make signets work on your pet with this talent, they should work on us instead untalented)

Skirmishing:
Agility Training (could be BM)
Pet’s Prowess (could be BM)
Carnivorous Appetite (could be BM)

Wilderness Survival
Expertise Training(could be BM)
blah blah blah etc etc…..

I like that pet talents are spread around, but you end up either really being weak with a strong pet that can’t catch anyone in PvP so it’s worthless, or you talent yourself up to be stronger, but now the pet is almost worthless and you still don’t have what it takes to be as amazing as this class could be with a weak pet and a strong YOU.

I love the class and it’s a good solid class for me, but it needs some help here

I actually love to have pet traits spread around in all of the trees. It gives you opportunities to strengthen the pet regardless of your build. We are after all a pet oriented profession, even though the pet lacks proper AI and AoE defense!

But I agree, many of the Pet traits available in BM are actually not that viable and they could definitely be improved. Actually many of the pet traits outside BM are, imo, much better than those found in BM.

ranger is the only class i’ve played at a high level – i just assumed every class had trait-line set-ups like this to stop people making overpowered builds, similar to how they limit your options with stats on jewelry in pvp. Is this not the case?

I really don’t believe it would cause any balance issues at all. Worst case scenario, Ranger would (almost) get in the same tier as the other OP professions.

The real issue is that Ranger lack decent build diversity. Also there has to be some kind of synergy between traits and skills. In GW1 traps were in the Wilderness Survival tree. I don’t see a reason why they changed that.

Now that BM build is kind of ruined, could you devs at least make a proper trapper build?!!?