Guild Wars 2

Well… I took part in beta weekend.. And I can agree that the greatsword needed a nerf. But not to the same degree, i guess. A huge two-handed sword is the weakest weapon in the assortment of Ranger at all. Attacks do less damage than even one-handed sword, which is also twice as fast and has AoE to 360 degrees. It makes sense to use greatesword only for fun. What makes it just one more useless ranger weapon. Will ot be fixed somehow or Anet satisfied with the current situation?

Greatsword attacks don’t lock you in place, for one. It also has a block, ranged cripple, interrupt and the best distance closing ability for rangers. Might not be the most powerful but it’s easily the most well rounded/versatile weapons.

Abilities are good, yes. But they are good only against bad abilities of other weapons. I don’t want to vine. I just think that even its good abilities do not justify such a low damage. It is just the LOWEST of all. And I don’t think that the presence of the block (which is cripple at the same time, btw) makes this weapon “tanking”.

I totaly agree with OP, the greatsword damage is too weak, compared to the other weapons.

And regarding the greatsword versatility, it is easily beaten with sword+horn.
The best distance closing ability for rangers has One handed-sword., and not Greatsword. You just don’t know how to use it.

Sword jump is superior to the one greatsword has, as it has a longer jump, lower CD and a cripple at the end, you just need to use it properly. Plus call of the wild is jut all around great(horn).

Medozorz.5920:

You just don’t know how to use it.

I don’t imagine mashing a number is all that difficult.

Sword jump is superior to the one greatsword has, as it has a longer jump, lower CD and a cripple at the end, you just need to use it properly.

The “sword jump” is not anywhere close to being as far as the GS jump. Swoop has a range of 1,100 while Monarch’s Leap is 600. This is on the wiki but also stupidly easy to see in any tests you do. Swoop is by far the longest jump we have.

The differences are mainly that while Swoop has a very long range and is instant, it has no cripple and the cooldown is longer. The issue with Monarch’s Leap is having to do that godawful dodge roll backwards first, which can make positioning and timing a bit stupid sometimes, especially for combo fields that don’t last long, and it doesn’t go quite as far.

Yep. Greatsword needs a buff. I love ranger greatsword to death, but i’ve been forced to switch to shortbow/ axe + horn cause the damage is just too low to be effective.

Shrinkshooter

The “sword jump” is not anywhere close to being as far as the GS jump. Swoop has a range of 1,100 while Monarch’s Leap is 600. This is on the wiki but also stupidly easy to see in any tests you do. Swoop is by far the longest jump we have.
The differences are mainly that while Swoop has a very long range and is instant, it has no cripple and the cooldown is longer. The issue with Monarch’s Leap is having to do that godawful dodge roll backwards first, which can make positioning and timing a bit stupid sometimes, especially for combo fields that don’t last long, and it doesn’t go quite as far.

This is where having "about face" hot-keyed would come in. By using about-face before and after the first part of that skill, your roll backwards is presumably rolling you forwards instead.

But that’s a lot of annoying extra key presses to do all the time and I’m much too lazy for it.

Shrinkshooter.6715:

Medozorz.5920:

You just don’t know how to use it.

I don’t imagine mashing a number is all that difficult.

Sword jump is superior to the one greatsword has, as it has a longer jump, lower CD and a cripple at the end, you just need to use it properly.

The “sword jump” is not anywhere close to being as far as the GS jump. Swoop has a range of 1,100 while Monarch’s Leap is 600. This is on the wiki but also stupidly easy to see in any tests you do. Swoop is by far the longest jump we have.

The differences are mainly that while Swoop has a very long range and is instant, it has no cripple and the cooldown is longer. The issue with Monarch’s Leap is having to do that godawful dodge roll backwards first, which can make positioning and timing a bit stupid sometimes, especially for combo fields that don’t last long, and it doesn’t go quite as far.

You can use the 1 handed sword as a double jump. You roll away then turn, untarget, and use the leap. Moves farther then the gs jump with more control and an evade during the jump.

For the sake of comparison: warrior with orange greatsword deals critically hits by 2500-9000 (15-20k by channeled “2”). Similar Ranger deals criticals by 1-2k MAX. We compared warrior with +20% critical damage and a ranger with +45%. Did u feel it, eh???
I understand that the ranger mechanics quite different (by the way, I think such damage reduction to benefit of pet is completely wrong within this game), but even with pet ranger will not issue even 2/3 of warrior’s dps. Moreover none pet have normal aoe.

The greatsword is easily the worst weapon in the Ranger’s arsenal. The skills themselves aren’t bad in function but the dps is so low it’s embarrassing, particularly in light of the lack of significant condition damage or damage mitigation on the greatsword spec. It might possibly be the worst skill set in the game across all classes at the moment.

I believe the opposite of the majority opinion in the thread, in that the greatsword is a weak weapon. I agree that the firepower is lackluster compared to other weapons (and I don’t share the same sentiment that it’s that much worse), but it’s defensive capabilities and mobility is so great that it easily compensates for the subpar damage output.

My concern is more that they chose to put bulk of the damage output onto the pet rather than the ranger. This is the cause for the GS nerf (and to a lesser extent, some other weapons). That said, the GS is still a very universally good weapon weapon (PvE, dungeon, and WvW. Haven’t done enough PvP to comment).

ryokoalways.3450:

I believe the opposite of the majority opinion in the thread, in that the greatsword is a weak weapon. I agree that the firepower is lackluster compared to other weapons (and I don’t share the same sentiment that it’s that much worse), but it’s defensive capabilities and mobility is so great that it easily compensates for the subpar damage output.

My concern is more that they chose to put bulk of the damage output onto the pet rather than the ranger. This is the cause for the GS nerf (and to a lesser extent, some other weapons). That said, the GS is still a very universally good weapon weapon (PvE, dungeon, and WvW. Haven’t done enough PvP to comment).

Wrong.

The survivability of a one handed sword with no offhand equipped is leagues greater than the greatsword. You get 3 evades on 2 skills before you even factor in what you take as your offhand(for instance axe has a very long channel skill that deflects ranged attacks).

As for mobility, yah swoop is nice but that’s it. I wouldn’t recommend a weapon cause it has a skill that let’s you get close to an opponent as it’s only talking point. I’d rather limp across a football field with a 20 second cripple debuff on me with a one handed sword 20 levels under my toon’s level then have to use a greatsword to kill the same mob that’s 2 feet away…why? Cause it’ll still take longer with the greatsword, a lot longer. If a feather pillow would teleport me instantly to an opponent I still wouldn’t use it to fight off a pack of wolverines.

Greatsword abilities are fantastic, but the damage is too low. It needs to do similar sustained damage than Shortbow to even be worth considering. And even then, Shortbow specced for Piercing Arrows is probably going to be better.

Kirby.4951:

Shrinkshooter.6715:

Medozorz.5920:

You just don’t know how to use it.

I don’t imagine mashing a number is all that difficult.

Sword jump is superior to the one greatsword has, as it has a longer jump, lower CD and a cripple at the end, you just need to use it properly.

The “sword jump” is not anywhere close to being as far as the GS jump. Swoop has a range of 1,100 while Monarch’s Leap is 600. This is on the wiki but also stupidly easy to see in any tests you do. Swoop is by far the longest jump we have.

The differences are mainly that while Swoop has a very long range and is instant, it has no cripple and the cooldown is longer. The issue with Monarch’s Leap is having to do that godawful dodge roll backwards first, which can make positioning and timing a bit stupid sometimes, especially for combo fields that don’t last long, and it doesn’t go quite as far.

You can use the 1 handed sword as a double jump. You roll away then turn, untarget, and use the leap. Moves farther then the gs jump with more control and an evade during the jump.

Thank you to explaining that for me, I was not clear enough.

If you learn how to use swords number 2 (not just button mash), it is more usefull than greatswords number 3, as it has a greater range useful for both chasing and escaping(if you use both sting and leap in the same direction), despite the tooltip saying otherwise (about the range). There is also a lower CD, an evade and a cripple all in one skill (sword).

Greatsword only has a lower range jump with a greater CD.

Nex Inter Nos.2481:

ryokoalways.3450:

I believe the opposite of the majority opinion in the thread, in that the greatsword is a weak weapon. I agree that the firepower is lackluster compared to other weapons (and I don’t share the same sentiment that it’s that much worse), but it’s defensive capabilities and mobility is so great that it easily compensates for the subpar damage output.

My concern is more that they chose to put bulk of the damage output onto the pet rather than the ranger. This is the cause for the GS nerf (and to a lesser extent, some other weapons). That said, the GS is still a very universally good weapon weapon (PvE, dungeon, and WvW. Haven’t done enough PvP to comment).

Wrong.

The survivability of a one handed sword with no offhand equipped is leagues greater than the greatsword. You get 3 evades on 2 skills before you even factor in what you take as your offhand(for instance axe has a very long channel skill that deflects ranged attacks).

As for mobility, yah swoop is nice but that’s it. I wouldn’t recommend a weapon cause it has a skill that let’s you get close to an opponent as it’s only talking point. I’d rather limp across a football field with a 20 second cripple debuff on me with a one handed sword 20 levels under my toon’s level then have to use a greatsword to kill the same mob that’s 2 feet away…why? Cause it’ll still take longer with the greatsword, a lot longer. If a feather pillow would teleport me instantly to an opponent I still wouldn’t use it to fight off a pack of wolverines.

Sword evasion abilities are longer lasting but that’s also why I don’t understand why you think it’s damage output, when actively used for survival purposes, doesn’t suffer. I’ve been 80 since the 27th, and having done a lot of WvW with all types of weapon set up, I can vouch that the damage output of the sword suffers greatly when you are fighting 3-4 people at once, whereas the gs is largely uneffected. Just because on paper the sword has evasive ability with better damge ratings does not make that so in practice. I would like to see a sword/offhand user fight off 3-4 people at once without having to sacrifice damage because you can’t use the second and third of 1 without getting cced into death.

Regarding using the second as a two part escape tool, that tiny window of turning and start of leap is still too large when people just drop a load of cc onto you at once. From personal experience, using the skill that way basically means you are sacrificing twice the amount of skill start-up to go a shorter distance. If you think I’m just timing it wrong, I can assure you that mine, while not the best, is not much worse than optimal turn-timing. There isn’t room for that split second when you have a group breathing down your neck. The gs also has faster activation. The only thing sword wins here is faster landing recovery.

Regarding gs damage output, without taking into account actual ingame factors, I would like to ask what numbers you are getting. I’m very confused by the overdramatization of lack of damage on the weapon. The sword does more auto attack damage, but its abilities don’t provide any type of spike damage. Whereas sword puts its damage on 1, and survivability on the rest, the GS (first 3 skills) does the opposite.

Now, outside the vacuum; In PvE, the consistent damage output of sword 1 is good, but in WvW, or even dungeon, bursts are necessary because you need opportunities to attack, and sword can only achieve burst with quickness, whereas GS does not need it. Please do not counter with burst of no damage is still no damage. GS swoop and maul does more damage than you give them credit for.

And finally, the GS has a stun and a parry. Offensive CC is much better at dictating a fight than evasion. Dagger (survivability), torch (damage), and warhorn (mobility) all are very good offhand, but in a direct confrontation they are far less threatening than a parry/blowback and stun.

Just another note: I do not doubt that damage output in a vacuum the sword has higher dps.

I doubt that sword can achieve better survivability and maintaining higher dps. It would be a 1 or the other proposition.

I doubt sword 2 has the same effectiveness as gs 3. Especially when you are chasing people/crossing the map to a location quickly. For escaping it’s a decent replacement. For all other instances it is woefully lacking due to less range and longer activation.

I doubt that gs damage is as bad as you are making it out to be.

A good way to test this is to go to catacombs and 1v1 Lt. Kholer and see how long you last. It’s a good test of actual dps instead of on paper, and good practice for resource management. A tough test would be the knight “hammer time” champion on forward>forward in TA, where there is very little tell to base your actions off.

Sounds optimistic, but it is not so. One-handed sword has about 5-10% more and about 30% faster than greatsword. Also has 360 degrees AoE. greatsword only 180. 2, 3, etc. abilitys damage not cover the difference. However, two-handed sword undeniably convenient. But if just to remove the jump from “1” of the sword, and situation will changed radically. With other weapons damage greatsword can not be compared at all. Just use piersing arrows trait

If trait comes in, then it would come to builds, and not just weapons. In which case, the discussion will become more complicated, and everyone would need to rewrite their arguments. I tried to limit to just the weapon comparison because then it’s a controlled discussion.

And I agree on the removal of jump. Although the likelihood of it happen is quite low, considering it’s been asked for since BWE.

Well… For greatsword almost no customization. Any traits which improves it are deep in thougness and endurance branches, the damage only losts dramatically.

You do not have to directly improve the GS damage output to increase the total damage output. That’s why I said when traits come in, and builds are discussed, it gets much more complicated.

For instance, for PvE/Dungeon I run

0/20/30/0/20

and use Lynx and River. I sacrifice very little damage since I go Condi/tank, staying in combat much longer due to having 2600 armor, and having respectable condi at 550 and still sporting a modest 40% crit rate for crit related procs. I use rune of warrior for -1 second weapon swap to have fury 50% of the time to help that out further. 50% swiftness is also a nice bonus, as is the additional vit + some power. I am equally useful solo as well as in a party. My equipment is based on the following split

35% soldier
35% carrion
30% berzerker

Giving me a respectable 2950~ attack rating and 18500 health.

So my ranger does the tanking with good condi, I have flexibility with my pet selection as I don’t have to worry about them dying, they are not tanking so I just pet swap every chance I get for quickness and F2 for more bursts, and I can swap-in various weapons without missing a beat because 20 skirmish and 30 wilderness covers all CD reductions for ranger (axe main doesn’t have one, but not a big issue). The only thing I’m considering is 10 less in beast for 30 in skirmish for moment of clarity and run a longbow/gs spiker. Less versatile but definitely more exciting.

For WvW, all I have to do is swap my major traits around, and run dual canine with muddy terrain and spike trap to get the same effect (i tank, pet does dmg, all the CC in the world so they can’t kite the pet).

And what is the maximum critical of your greatsword?

We compared many specs. Most damage for greatsword is 20 \ 30 \ 20 \ 0 \ 0. Equipment we chouse was with maximum power,precision and crit damage. 2k crit – is a limit (from “3”). “1” is about 1.1k crit. one-handed sword can do ~1.2k on average, but 30-40% faster. (For the moment, the critical damage of “1” longbowe we can overclocked up to ~5k and 900-950 for shortbow)

Great sword cannot be used in any competitive sPvP spec. It a shame, I like the idea of great sword.

The damage nerf to the greatsword was a little too big, in my opinion.

Greatsword:
- It’s animations are significantly slower than Sword / X.
- It doesn’t hit that much harder than a Sword when directly using Exotic vs Exotic and using -similar- trait specs.

I think if they buffed “1” damage a little on the Greatsword, it would be moderately okay again, as it still does offer some utility.

I don’t know if it would be on par with the extreme mobility / evasion of the Sword, though.

The greatsword damage is definitely too low. It does less damage than the shortbow, even without the bow’s bleeds.

The greatsword damage is quite low compared to all of its other weapon choices. If it is to be used for tanking though, I think it needs more functionality to warrant the lower damage output. Perhaps a combo initiator and an improved block. I’m ok with a lower damage weapon, as long as it has gains somewhere else, and I just don’t see it right now. 1h sword offers more evasion and condition damage, plus i’m pretty sure it buffs my pet. And horn or torch OH offer a dot (4 skill) and either a party buff or combo field (5 skill). A clear choice imo.
As for the gap closer, if the target is outside of the sword leap distance I would just swap to my trusty bow to finish.

Was it buffed or something cause I got to 80 on a GS without any complaints and testing dps in mists is slightly higher than axe.

It’s not so low that you’re kittening yourself. It’s fine for normal play. The problem comes when comparing it to 1h sword (as well as other professions who rock with a GS). And I think the ‘logic’ of a huge metal weapon doing subpar damage is conflicting for most of us.

Axe is an AoE weapon, so the lower damage makes sense. I have a feeling that Anet is similarly penalizing GS.

I agree it’s a bit low but using 30 in skirmishing to get the extra hit for you and the pet of interupt every five seconds, using two heavy interupt pets (I liked Spider Wolf for the range start) and working it with Longbow in a more balanced damage defense build it’s pretty durable in the non competitive environment and you apply large amounts of disruptive CC to your target between GS/LB and pets. Seemed to work better with a big snare(I like frost trap to extend CD’s and larger snare%) to keep your pet on target and ease positioning more reliably. More of an outlast build unlike some of the quick burndown options available.

Swords big problem at the moment is it’s animations locking you out of dodge even if you take it off autoattack. PvE work not a big issue, PvP annoying.

GS dodges on demand and interupts/controls and for now that’s it’s advantage. I’ld agree it could use more damage but there is definite fun potential with it in hotjoin.

Was playing around with this build;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fMAQJARTjIV915VSWgWCiVh90UkJLxewfGtoXh0XyKiC;TkAA1UFZKSUktIXRyiWkMEB

Durable, burst potential highly finite, enjoyable 1v1. Condition removal from gear(triggering elite longbow crit or elite activation.) Crit coming from regular weapon swaps. Would love to see the damage buffed a bit however.

Yep, been trying to get a ranger greatsword build to work. There just isn’t anything you can do with this sword to make it any better. The ranger needs some serious love because as of right now there is no point in using anything other than a shortbow.

Did not understand what’s good in this “interrupt” trait? It just makes it possible to attack while interrupt … no?

Ryke.1069:

Yep, been trying to get a ranger greatsword build to work. There just isn’t anything you can do with this sword to make it any better. The ranger needs some serious love because as of right now there is no point in using anything other than a shortbow.

Yes Greatsword is lacking but to say that Shortbow is only good weapon is naive.

MeGaZlo.9516:

Did not understand what’s good in this “interrupt” trait? It just makes it possible to attack while interrupt … no?

When you interupt an opponent’s cast time for lack of a better word it gives you and your pet an instant extra attack(Facing rules apply as well as interupting them). Obviously for the pet that means it has to be in range but for you you are in range (stability is a pita obviously). It can only occur every five seconds so it essentially requires you to spot the wind up and interupt your opponent to get the extra attack. Greatsword has 2 interupts (KB and daze stun) Longbow has 1 in the knockback. And your pets to get the opponent to burn the stun break. Wasn’t able to determine if pet stuns were triggering it but really not necessary with f2 predictability having 3 controllable interupts and a 5 second CD on weapons is all you need. The pets added CC is alot of disruption and damage mitigation and positioning potential regardless.

Builds pretty much 100% on you to react and position. Wasn’t a quick kill with all the dancing positioning dodging. Sort of a dance like a butterfly build with controlled uppercut potential.

I don’t entirely agree that the Ranger Greatsword should be a defensive option, as opposed to an offensive one. If anything, the roles of the Sword and Greatsword should be reversed – Greatsword should be, in theory, the high-damage option of the two. It’s a massive weapon, after all.

While the Greatsword isn’t out-right bad in PvE, per say, why pick it when you have the option of going Sword/Horn or Sword/Torch and killing nearly twice as fast with a DoT/Buff/Condition?

As opposed to the other Greatsword wielding professions, ours is -significantly- lower in the damage category, while the other ( namely Guardian ) offers tons of utility on top of the damage it does.

I think the greatsword should be a healthy mix of damage, defence and mobility, and that is exactly what it is right now. I find the greatsword skills to be the most fun skillset of the entire game, easily beating other professions in sheer fun-factor.

However, the damage it does right now, is just too low.. even if you can get your pet to do sustained damage despite its broken mechanics, your total dps will still be barely 20% of that of a warrior. Consider the warrior has far more health, defence and armor as well.

I suggest:

1. Increase the auto attack damage by 30%
2. Add a 2 second knockdown to Maul, increase the bleed damage by 40%, but increase its cooldown to 25 seconds.
3. Increase the damage of Swoop by 30% as well, and add a 2 second cripple.

We will still be far, far weaker than a warrior with these changes, but I think they would be a great first step. If necessary afterwards we can still increase pet damage if necessary. I don’t agree with people that say the pets should not play a significant role in ranger combat.

These are all upgrades, but I think they are justified considering the weapon right now is completely useless for SPvP, and is so much weaker compared to most other weapon sets in the game.

The weapon is amazing fun, the skill concepts are the most fun of all sets in the game, but simply too weak in terms of damage to be useful as a main build for SPvP. The Ranger is a Ranger, a forest warrior, and not a hunter, so longbow and shortbow should not be its only options for main weapon. The greatsword should offer a good main build, and not just a secondary weapon option.

Zsymon.8457:

I think the greatsword should be a healthy mix of damage, defence and mobility, and that is exactly what it is right now. I find the greatsword skills to be the most fun skillset of the entire game, easily beating other professions in sheer fun-factor.

However, the damage it does right now, is just too low.. even if you can get your pet to do sustained damage despite its broken mechanics, your total dps will still be barely 20% of that of a warrior. Consider the warrior has far more health, defence and armor as well.

I suggest:

1. Increase the auto attack damage by 30%
2. Add a 2 second knockdown to Maul, increase the bleed damage by 40%, but increase its cooldown to 25 seconds.
3. Increase the damage of Swoop by 30% as well, and add a 2 second cripple.

We will still be far, far weaker than a warrior with these changes, but I think they would be a great first step. If necessary afterwards we can still increase pet damage if necessary. I don’t agree with people that say the pets should not play a significant role in ranger combat.

These are all upgrades, but I think they are justified considering the weapon right now is completely useless for SPvP, and is so much weaker compared to most other weapon sets in the game.

The weapon is amazing fun, the skill concepts are the most fun of all sets in the game, but simply too weak in terms of damage to be useful as a main build for SPvP. The Ranger is a Ranger, a forest warrior, and not a hunter, so longbow and shortbow should not be its only options for main weapon. The greatsword should offer a good main build, and not just a secondary weapon option.

I agree that the Greatsword is the most fun and most aesthetically pleasing weapon to look at – they have the biggest “skin” to see, after all.

I like the proposed changes you listed, too. Although I don’t want the entire weapon bar to be bogged down by too many long-cooldown skills, as that ultimately defeats the purpose and actually decreases overall damage.

As an example, look at most of the Guardians cooldown and damage:
- Strike (Auto Attack): Good damage, decent animation speed, enhanced further by Virtue Passives ( Burns ), +Might on last attack for each enemy hit. 0 CD.
- Symbol of Wrath: Adds Retaliaton to allies, burns enemies, Good Damage, 10s CD.
- Whirling Wrath: Powerful AoE Damage. Whirl Combo Finisher. 10s CD.
- Leap of Faith: Leap Combo Finisher, blinds enemies, moderate damage. 20s CD.
- Binding Blade: DoT, with bound enemies being able to be pulled to you and causing a KD. Average damage. 30s CD.

Warrior Greatsword:
Greatsword Swing (Auto Attack): Strong, quick animation. 3rd auto attack hits even harder.
Hundred Blades: Hard hitting chain of attacks, with the last one hitting a lot harder. 8s CD.
Whirlwind Attack: Good movement range, average damage, Whirl Combo Finisher, 10s CD.
Bladetrail: Decent damage, 4s cripple, 100% Projectile Finisher, 15s CD.
Rush: Good damage, good movement range, 20s CD.

By comparison, we should have a few moderate cooldowns ( 6 – 10s) with one or two longer ones. I wouldn’t be adverse to more damage overall and slightly more utility on the Ranger Greatsword, so long as it remained “on par” with the other professions, so to speak.

I know you can’t just mimic skills, because of the way each profession traits differently, and I wouldn’t want them to, but it would be nice if there was some comparability between them all.

I would like it if they kept MOST of the Greatsword the same, but increased the damage on the skills.

However, the damage it does right now, is just too low.. even if you can get your pet to do sustained damage despite its broken mechanics, your total dps will still be barely 20% of that of a warrior.

I haven’t actually gone into the Heart of the Mists and tested it, but I really doubt this. Even if you assume the warrior’s target will sit still and eat the full channel of Hundred Blades on cooldown I don’t see how they’d do 5 times a ranger’s damage. The disparity isn’t that bad.

However, I do agree with the general assessment that the ranger’s greatsword feels a bit underpowered, and it’s not due to a lack of utility. The weapon simply doesn’t do as much damage as it probably needs to in order to be a competitive option for PvP. I’d put it in the same category as the necromancer’s axe that way. It just makes you ask yourself “Why is it taking so many hits to kill this thing?”

Completely agree with the OP.

Give me back my BW2 ranger.
These really massive changes completely boggle me, i mean the greatsword went from an overpowerd beast to the weakest weapon we have, same with evasive purity that went from cleansing a condition from yourself and everyone around you eachtime you dodged,without cooldown, to the complete joke of a grandmaster trait it is now.

Not seeing it. I had an exotic L80 greatsword reward when I completed the Frostgorge area and find it kills stuff faster than my shortbow. It has a built-in aoe and evade and nice closer ability. I was able to take down groups of L80 undead. I can’t do this as easier with my shortbow. It got even better when I specced for the greatsword. I’ll know more when I try to do a dungeon with it.

No offense to some people in this thread, but just because you got to 80 using GS doesn’t mean it’s “alright”. If you ever compared the GS to the other weapons you will see that it does terrible damage compared to 1h sword. 1-h Sword also has aoe, so there is no benefit of using the GS over it. Greatsword has block which is nice and that’s it. Swoop is interchangeable with sword leaps and anything else on the weapon can be more than covered by the variety of offhands you can choose from. The other problem is there is no benefit to using GS over either bow since the bows do more dps, and have similar utility. Short bow out damages GS, has the same 5 skill, also has evade, a better cripple, better bleeds and does it from 1200 range away? In SPVP there are very few rangers and barely anyone uses GS for anything other than messing around. This doesn’t even account for how bad ranger survivability is, you have to stack so much defense to make a melee build viable your dps output suffers even more.

TLDR: melee should be stronger dps than range or have higher utility, else there is no reason to bother doing it. Which is what is happening right now.

How are people comparing monarch’s leap with swoop?
Monarch’s Leap isn’t a gap closer, its an avoidance ability.

With Swoop, you close the gap between a target up to 1100 range.
Monarch’s Leap doesn’t close any gaps because you already have to be at the position to begin with. It just jumps you out for AoE and takes you back in afterwards.

I really hope they buff both the Longbow and the Greatsword. They’re literally the only two weapons I find fun.

Honestly, i think that the little bit of damage done with attacks can be made up for with your interrupt skill, and then your counterattack.

Nothing like swooping in, using hilt bash, setting up for a counter attack, and then swapping over to sword + axe for whirling D while they are dazed…. stack 12 vulnerability, roll around with hornet sting, monarch leap and then the rolly polly poison attack (i forget the name) and then switching back to greatsword and doing it all over again… you baically never get hit by anything just for using your skills.

Nothing like counter attacking an ettin’s charged stomp and watching everyone else around you get thrown 20 feet while you are still in there kicking the ettin’skitten

The Interrupt/Counter-Attack argument is nice and all, but after you Interrupt/Counter-Attack and then what? We do piddly damage with everything else in the Greatsword’s arsenal. I run a Longbow/Greatsword build. Even with Quickening Zephyr and Rampage As One COMBINED, I do worse damage with Greatsword than I do with a single Rapid Fire, and that’s laughable because Rapid Fire does less damage during its duration than a Shortbow does.

So what do you do? Switch to a better weapon set? Why even bother with the Greatsword in that case when we can just use a far better combination in Shortbow/Sword/Torch?

We’re being pigeonholed into one build — condition Shortbow/Sword/Torch — to compete against the likes of Thief, Mesmer, and Warrior.

If you want damage back on GS, you are going to have to sacrifice something for it. There is no reason for the GS to get a straight up buff. Additionally, damage output isn’t everything. The only limitation here is that a power ranger build using GS, or to a lesser extent, longbow (like the GS, skill 3-5 of longbow are also really really good), is below par in direct damage. This is a result of Anet wanting pet to be of a significant part of ranger playstyle.

Just to clarify, I would much rather have more damage on the ranger than the pet since you don’t have precise controls for managing the pet. I am willing to make that trade-off. I also suggested that the auto evade of GS be removed and put on sword (sword would obviously need some changes for it to be feasible) to retain the damage output of the GS. However, the fact of the matter is, with their current design philosophy of placing much of the damage output on the pet, ranger weapon damage will suffer as a result. The odd one out right now is shortbow, which got a massive attack speed increase between BWE and release. It’s probably there to fix the lack of direct damage that people were complaining about (they reduced bleed duration so that cond damage remains roughly the same). The only downside of the shortbow is that it is purely single target.

Again, as much as I don’t like the fact that pet damage output a massive chunk of total ranger damage output, never forget that your build involves 2 units, not one. Building a ranger trait line is more complex than at first sight. You can’t just throw everything on to the ranger and neglect the pet and expect to perform up to par when compared to other professions, given how the ranger is designed right now.

I really don’t agree Ryo, the absurdly weak state of the ranger greatsword right now, really does not justify having to sacrifice anything at all to increase its damage output. The actual damage output COMBINED with that of a high dps pet, is still literally multitudes lower than that of other professions. What damage a warrior or thief does in 10 seconds, we literally need over a minute for.

It is not just the greatsword, the longbow has incredibly low damage as well, and the axe tops everything with even lower damage. The only skills doing less damage than the ranger greatsword and throwing axe, are elementalist water auto attacks.

I’ve played warrior, elementalist, thief, guardian and ranger so far.. and the only viable build for a ranger is a condition build with shortbow. Nothing we have is remotely as viable as a skirmishing/survival condition build with a shortbow.. it is the only way to play in PvP, no other option is anywhere near viable.

The greatsword situation is not a matter of replacing utility with damage, because then you remain in the same underpowered situation. You can’t talk about greatsword being fine for solo pve, you have to include sPvP, and for that the greatsword is completely and utterly useless. Its utility is great, the abilities are incredibly fun to use even though they aren’t that strong at all.. but the damage is so piddly, so incredibly low, that we cannot use this weapon in sPvP.

I don’t think someone can comment on this without having played professions like warrior, guardian and thief to compare. Even in PVE the amount of time greatsword rangers need to take down a monster, is embarasingly long compared to other professions. If you spec toughness and vitality so you don’t die right away, you will spend even longer beating on that monster and watching its healthbar slowly, sloowly tick down. Then you see a warrior come by and watch him destroy that same monster in five seconds.

Rangers aren’t hunters, rangers are forest warriors, their lore does not limit them to only the use of bows, a major weapon such as greatsword, especially considering the awesome design of the skillset (ignoring the dps), should most definitely be viable as a main weapon. I keep playing greatsword + axe/horn, just because the skills are so much fun, and because I roleplay, I bought this game because I wanted to be a forest warrior, a nature guardian, so I just hope Anet will enable me to join player combat some day.

The shortbow is the only viable weapon choice, but I really dislike the skills.. they don’t feel right to me, and although it is much more powerful, I have absolutely no fun using the shortbow. I could enjoy the longbow if I had to, but again the shortbow is much more powerful for both pve and pvp. What keeps me playing is because a big Sylvari ranger as the protector of the forests, is just such cool roleplay for me, and because again, the skills of greatsword are so much fun to use. I enjoy placing down a fire trap, leap comboing with swoop to create a fireshield, and smashing a big sword down onto my enemies.

For what it’s worth, I play ranger and thf, so I know what real burst damage looks like. And just as an additional note, you really don’t sacrifice too much to go tank ranger. You get toughness and cond damage together, and you can still compensate for power via equipment (almost everything has power anyways, so that’s the easiest to adjust for). I’m not fully decked out, but I have 2650 def, 3k attack, and 20k hp. I can survive the best bursts a thf or warrior can offer, activate troll unguent, then hover around 25% HP with barbed skin.

That said, I’m not happy with the situation as well, but I don’t believe a straight buff is the answer. The primary issue is still with the pet mechanic. Balancing them out to have multitude of roles is why ranger damage had to suffer, since dps has to be one of the options. A ranger can also make a regular mob explode with ease with a simple swap into canine/feline for 2 seconds of quickness, no other abilities required. The problem is that pet damage is very unreliable outside of PvE, and you have to overly commit to CC for pet damage to be able to play a role in WvW (again, I refrain from talking about sPvP as I lack sufficient experience). This artificually creates a lack of damage against non-stationary targets. Even then, I still feel we are forced to take some beastmastery line at the moment due to overreliance on pet damage output. This causes a lot of problems outside of PvE.

I would have no problem with a GS buff, but I also want the game to be balanced. I strongly believe that the best way about this is to put the primary responsibility of damage back on the ranger instead of the pet (for all weapons. GS isn’t the only weapon shafted in damage multiplier). A direct buff with no downside is detrimental to balance. The GS is still a great weapon. Ability to do damage isn’t the only thing of importance in the game.

The problem is that even with a stationary target, and your jaguar or lynx doing constant damage without having to chase, the total damage is still multitudes lower than that of the other professions, and while the greatsword has a block and a short daze, that really doesn’t make up for such a gigantic gap with other professions, who also have utility abilities by the way, it’s not like the greatsword utility is so much better.

Saying that the ranger is okay on its own is pointless, you have to compare it with the other professions. You can ooze your way to lvl80 with the greatsword I guess, but other professions just do it so much faster and easier. The shortbow build works and is much easier and faster, but I don’t want to be forced to play a build that I don’t enjoy at all, I derive no joy from using a shortbow, the skills are just not interesting enough for me. I greatly enjoy the greatsword, but all I can do with it is play downleveled content.

I think people who are suggesting condition builds are missing the point.

Some of us don’t want to be pigeonholed into a condition build. Period. I don’t find it fun at all.

I don’t want to be stuck auto attacking with SB, because that’s literally all you do — QZ + Auto Attack every 60 seconds. Yay.

I don’t want to have to use a Sword/Torch. More condition. Ugh…

I want burst damage, and no, I don’t want to play a Thief. Longbow/Greatsword was the burst damage build in BWE, but it’s gone now. It was overpowered, sure, but they completely overnerfed it.

I still use LB/GS, despite them being severely underpowered, because they are literally the only weapons I find to be fun. But knowing how weak they are just puts a huge damper on my wanting to actually play.

Hell, this past weekend I tried every other class that could use a ranged physical weapon to see if I could get the burst I want… Nope. Thief P/P is weak too, and also condition based, while their SB was literally just all ground target AOE instead of single target burst. Warrior Rifle burst was too dependent on their class mechanic and I’m not a fan of the Rage mechanic. Engineer Rifle was ok burst, but VERY close range. WTF 400 range on half the abilities? -__-

Please fix Ranger LB/GS, ArenaNet.

Greatsword is one of the strongest WvW and PvE weapons for a Ranger. Not only does it do far more AoE damage than the axe/warhorn combo. Contrary to what people say here the damage is not lackluster on the GS and is only rivaled in single target by the Shortbow, if anything is lackluster in the damage department (and just in general) it’s the Longbow.

More importantly Greatsword evades on the autoattack every third attack and is actually a pretty fast weapon. Paired with pet swaps for quickness and quickening zephyr you are evading near constantly while quickness is up as well as outputting massive AoE to 3 enemies in front of you.

The only buff I could suggest to the Greatsword is to make the travel time on crippling throw a lot faster. It’s very difficult to hit it with it considering it’s wind up and travel time the enemy is usually long out of range and it’s difficult to stick to a target without crippling shot or entangle.

Swoop can also be used as an escape mechanism instead of a gap closer. Turn off auto targeting.

Paired with the Shortbow I’ve won many 1v4s and even a 1v6 in WvW. But sure, let’s buff the second best weapon in the most overpowered profession (in my opinion) in the game because people don’t know how to properly utilize it.

30 Skirmishing, 30 Wilderness Survival, 10 Beastmastery for the record. Marksman tree is awful. Utilities are Healing Spring, Quickening Zephyr, Lightning Reflexes, Signet of the Wild, and Entangle. Use Wolf pets for knockdown to secure kills. Run into the middle of a zerg and entangle then swap pet and go to town, after 2 seconds Quickening Zephyr and that will easily finish off anyone who doesn’t understand how Entangle works. Zerg can’t kill you when you are evading everything. Pet will absorb first CC and keep conditions off you. Swoop/Evade/Quick Shot/Lightning Reflexes out to safety. Use SB to finish off anyone else from the safety of ranged.