Guild Wars 2

Chopps.5047:

We’ve been preaching agility training, chills, cripples, and stuns for pets to land hits for a long time. The problem is that many players don’t like that gameplay. They want to drop powerful attacks while the cat lands every hit, right? If you run cat beastmaster you have to control your target. Sword is great for this. Has anyone tested cat vs dog when using mainhand sword?

I’m not a fan of the Sword because of the way the auto-attack locks you. >.<

But I’ll grab some steady weapons (so that I don’t do too much damage) and test it later.

zTales.4392:

Chopps.5047:

We’ve been preaching agility training, chills, cripples, and stuns for pets to land hits for a long time. The problem is that many players don’t like that gameplay. They want to drop powerful attacks while the cat lands every hit, right? If you run cat beastmaster you have to control your target. Sword is great for this. Has anyone tested cat vs dog when using mainhand sword?

I’m not a fan of the Sword because of the way the auto-attack locks you. >.<

But I’ll grab some steady weapons (so that I don’t do too much damage) and test it later.

The leap animations keep you crippling a running target while also buffing the cat with might. The stickiness is a feature, not a bug.

Chopps.5047:

zTales.4392:

Chopps.5047:

We’ve been preaching agility training, chills, cripples, and stuns for pets to land hits for a long time. The problem is that many players don’t like that gameplay. They want to drop powerful attacks while the cat lands every hit, right? If you run cat beastmaster you have to control your target. Sword is great for this. Has anyone tested cat vs dog when using mainhand sword?

I’m not a fan of the Sword because of the way the auto-attack locks you. >.<

But I’ll grab some steady weapons (so that I don’t do too much damage) and test it later.

The leap animations keep you crippling a running target while also buffing the cat with might. The stickiness is a feature, not a bug.

I know it’s not a bug, I just don’t like it. It gets me panicky. I hate being locked into anything. xD

Forzani.2584:

Manekk.6981:

Forzani.2584:

What this test says to me is to use dogs. Unless you are fighting a stationary target.

If you don’t have any traits that enhance pets and don’t plan to help them yes, now if the ranger starts to cripple, chill and stun the target it will be a little diffrent or very diffrent actually.

How so ? Please explain.

Pure damage dog and cat are very similar with agility training.
Without Agility it is a rout in dogs favor.
Stationary cat wins….but not as lopsided as without agility.

Obviously the Ranger will try and use some CC to help the pet. Still, even then the cat barely wins…and that is not even taking into account the dogs own CC ….3 per dog. If you are any kind of kiter then that pet CC is invaluable.

I would suggest the Rangers build and play style would play a part in the decision making. A burst melee Ranger would have a stationary target for the pet to hit so in that situation I would go with cat.

I am only concerned with WvW. I am sure pve…dungeons and PvP are quite different.

Isn’t it obvious that it’s a little shortsighted to just conclude “moving target, dog is best” there are traits that increase crit damage, apply bleed on crit, increased condition damage for pets all these play in favor of a cat I’ll go out on a limb here and claim a cat would bring down a moving golem faster than dogs even without agility training or signet of the hunt if you have these traits but if you add the movement speed and some cc to the target then a cat will just embarress a dog in damage output.

There are of course other good reasons to bring a wolf they have good F2 abilities, knockdowns can be really useful not to mention they are pretty good tanks if you need one aswell as having decent dps and being good on moving targets even when unaided.

So yeah picking a dog purely based on a test that included 30% speed and without isn’t the best in my opinion best look at what else you would use aswell before making that decision.

Manekk.6981:

Forzani.2584:

Manekk.6981:

Forzani.2584:

What this test says to me is to use dogs. Unless you are fighting a stationary target.

If you don’t have any traits that enhance pets and don’t plan to help them yes, now if the ranger starts to cripple, chill and stun the target it will be a little diffrent or very diffrent actually.

How so ? Please explain.

Pure damage dog and cat are very similar with agility training.
Without Agility it is a rout in dogs favor.
Stationary cat wins….but not as lopsided as without agility.

Obviously the Ranger will try and use some CC to help the pet. Still, even then the cat barely wins…and that is not even taking into account the dogs own CC ….3 per dog. If you are any kind of kiter then that pet CC is invaluable.

I would suggest the Rangers build and play style would play a part in the decision making. A burst melee Ranger would have a stationary target for the pet to hit so in that situation I would go with cat.

I am only concerned with WvW. I am sure pve…dungeons and PvP are quite different.

Isn’t it obvious that it’s a little shortsighted to just conclude “moving target, dog is best” there are traits that increase crit damage, apply bleed on crit, increased condition damage for pets all these play in favor of a cat I’ll go out on a limb here and claim a cat would bring down a moving golem faster than dogs even without agility training or signet of the hunt if you have these traits but if you add the movement speed and some cc to the target then a cat will just embarress a dog in damage output.

There are of course other good reasons to bring a wolf they have good F2 abilities, knockdowns can be really useful not to mention they are pretty good tanks if you need one aswell as having decent dps and being good on moving targets even when unaided.

So yeah picking a dog purely based on a test that included 30% speed and without isn’t the best in my opinion best look at what else you would use aswell before making that decision.

I actually did try it with Pet’s Prowess and without Agility Training. The results were so similar to the original moving target test that I just scrapped it. I’ll do it again, though.

Okay, here’s the list I’ve compiled so far:

1. Jaguar vs wolf on moving targets. Pet’s Prowess and 30 points in BM. (Then I’ll do it again, but I’ll add some Shortbow cripples. Then I’ll do it again, but I’ll add Sword auto-attacks.)

2. Jaguar vs wolf on moving targets. Pet’s Prowess, Agility Training, and 20 points in BM. (Then I’ll do it again, but I’ll add some Shortbow cripples. Then I’ll do it again, but I’ll add Sword auto-attacks.)

3. Jaguar on moving targets. Pet’s Prowess, Agility Training, Rending Attacks, and 20 points in BM.

4. Jaguar vs snow leopard on moving targets. Pet’s Prowess, Agility Training, Commanding Voice, and 20 points in BM. I’ll spam their F2 abilities.

5. How long a pet can stay up without Natural Healing.

6. How long a pet can stay up with Natural Healing.

Wow, that’s a lot. o__o;

Did I miss anything? xD

How long a pet with natural healing can stay up against what? pointless exercise if you ask me we already know exactly how much it heals.

If you like testing this stuff then I think you should simply start from the bottom test pets at 0/10/20/30 points in BM both on stationary and moving golem and then add on traits to the tests after you have done the base without them.

This would be nice to compare the same pet at diffrent points in BM rather than just h2h against a diffrent animal aswell.

Manekk.6981:

Forzani.2584:

Manekk.6981:

Forzani.2584:

What this test says to me is to use dogs. Unless you are fighting a stationary target.

If you don’t have any traits that enhance pets and don’t plan to help them yes, now if the ranger starts to cripple, chill and stun the target it will be a little diffrent or very diffrent actually.

How so ? Please explain.

Pure damage dog and cat are very similar with agility training.
Without Agility it is a rout in dogs favor.
Stationary cat wins….but not as lopsided as without agility.

Obviously the Ranger will try and use some CC to help the pet. Still, even then the cat barely wins…and that is not even taking into account the dogs own CC ….3 per dog. If you are any kind of kiter then that pet CC is invaluable.

I would suggest the Rangers build and play style would play a part in the decision making. A burst melee Ranger would have a stationary target for the pet to hit so in that situation I would go with cat.

I am only concerned with WvW. I am sure pve…dungeons and PvP are quite different.

Isn’t it obvious that it’s a little shortsighted to just conclude “moving target, dog is best” there are traits that increase crit damage, apply bleed on crit, increased condition damage for pets all these play in favor of a cat I’ll go out on a limb here and claim a cat would bring down a moving golem faster than dogs even without agility training or signet of the hunt if you have these traits but if you add the movement speed and some cc to the target then a cat will just embarress a dog in damage output.

There are of course other good reasons to bring a wolf they have good F2 abilities, knockdowns can be really useful not to mention they are pretty good tanks if you need one aswell as having decent dps and being good on moving targets even when unaided.

So yeah picking a dog purely based on a test that included 30% speed and without isn’t the best in my opinion best look at what else you would use aswell before making that decision.

I’m not sure if I am being trolled or not. Yes cats have bleeds. Yes there are traits that improves pet damage. Most of them apply to all pets. Malicious Training (longer bleeds cats …longer CC dogs)…Alpha Training…Pets Prowess…Companions Might…Agility Training…Carnivourous Appetite. In fact Intimidation Training is one that works for dogs and not cats as far as I can tell.

So you can go out on a limb and say a cat will take down a moving golem faster than a dog. His tests say otherwise. Quite a drastic difference in fact. I dunno, maybe you have 20 cats in your house and hate dogs. Not sure what we are even debating.

So I will tighten my statement. For me…roaming solo in WvW …regen kiter using SB. A dog does better CC and does more damage because A. He catches moving targets better and B. When he knocks them down or roots he gets free hits without chasing.

Your cat is Adam Dunn from the WhiteSox. When he gets a hit,,,it’s a HR. The bad news is he is batting .098

Manekk.6981:

How long a pet with natural healing can stay up against what? pointless exercise if you ask me we already know exactly how much it heals.

If you like testing this stuff then I think you should simply start from the bottom test pets at 0/10/20/30 points in BM both on stationary and moving golem and then add on traits to the tests after you have done the base without them.

This would be nice to compare the same pet at diffrent points in BM rather than just h2h against a diffrent animal aswell.

If the pet dies in 10-20 seconds, then Natural Healing may not be worth it. It may be better to use the 10 points on something else. That’s why I want to know.

If you read the original post, you’d know that I did do the sort of tests you’re talking about. :I

Edit: Oh, that is, “base” tests. There’s not much of a point in testing at 0/10/20/30. We all know that it’ll increase damage done by the pet. What we don’t know is which pets work best with which traits. Not in detail, anyway.

Chopps.5047:

We’ve been preaching agility training, chills, cripples, and stuns for pets to land hits for a long time. The problem is that many players don’t like that gameplay. They want to drop powerful attacks while the cat lands every hit, right? If you run cat beastmaster you have to control your target. Sword is great for this. Has anyone tested cat vs dog when using mainhand sword?

You can perma cripple with sword making jaguar awesome. You need to pair the right pets with the right weapons.

Forzani.2584:

Manekk.6981:

Forzani.2584:

Manekk.6981:

Forzani.2584:

What this test says to me is to use dogs. Unless you are fighting a stationary target.

If you don’t have any traits that enhance pets and don’t plan to help them yes, now if the ranger starts to cripple, chill and stun the target it will be a little diffrent or very diffrent actually.

How so ? Please explain.

Pure damage dog and cat are very similar with agility training.
Without Agility it is a rout in dogs favor.
Stationary cat wins….but not as lopsided as without agility.

Obviously the Ranger will try and use some CC to help the pet. Still, even then the cat barely wins…and that is not even taking into account the dogs own CC ….3 per dog. If you are any kind of kiter then that pet CC is invaluable.

I would suggest the Rangers build and play style would play a part in the decision making. A burst melee Ranger would have a stationary target for the pet to hit so in that situation I would go with cat.

I am only concerned with WvW. I am sure pve…dungeons and PvP are quite different.

Isn’t it obvious that it’s a little shortsighted to just conclude “moving target, dog is best” there are traits that increase crit damage, apply bleed on crit, increased condition damage for pets all these play in favor of a cat I’ll go out on a limb here and claim a cat would bring down a moving golem faster than dogs even without agility training or signet of the hunt if you have these traits but if you add the movement speed and some cc to the target then a cat will just embarress a dog in damage output.

There are of course other good reasons to bring a wolf they have good F2 abilities, knockdowns can be really useful not to mention they are pretty good tanks if you need one aswell as having decent dps and being good on moving targets even when unaided.

So yeah picking a dog purely based on a test that included 30% speed and without isn’t the best in my opinion best look at what else you would use aswell before making that decision.

I’m not sure if I am being trolled or not. Yes cats have bleeds. Yes there are traits that improves pet damage. Most of them apply to all pets. Malicious Training (longer bleeds cats …longer CC dogs)…Alpha Training…Pets Prowess…Companions Might…Agility Training…Carnivourous Appetite. In fact Intimidation Training is one that works for dogs and not cats as far as I can tell.

So you can go out on a limb and say a cat will take down a moving golem faster than a dog. His tests say otherwise. Quite a drastic difference in fact. I dunno, maybe you have 20 cats in your house and hate dogs. Not sure what we are even debating.

So I will tighten my statement. For me…roaming solo in WvW …regen kiter using SB. A dog does better CC and does more damage because A. He catches moving targets better and B. When he knocks them down or roots he gets free hits without chasing.

Your cat is Adam Dunn from the WhiteSox. When he gets a hit,,,it’s a HR. The bad news is he is batting .098

You are not really following in our discussion somehow, I’m not sure what else to say.

Puandro.3245:

Chopps.5047:

We’ve been preaching agility training, chills, cripples, and stuns for pets to land hits for a long time. The problem is that many players don’t like that gameplay. They want to drop powerful attacks while the cat lands every hit, right? If you run cat beastmaster you have to control your target. Sword is great for this. Has anyone tested cat vs dog when using mainhand sword?

You can perma cripple with sword making jaguar awesome. You need to pair the right pets with the right weapons.

And not just sword. Every ranger weapon has skills that increase your pets ability to hit a moving target. Sword just has maybe the easiest access to cripple, through the auto attack, and monarchs leap.

Shortbow, many peoples favorite has a 3 sec cripple on its 4 skill, and a 1 sec stun/daze (2 if you trait for it) on it’s 5 skill.

Longbow 3 grants your pet 10 sec of swiftness whether or not it hits. OP already showed numbers that prove increased moves speed for pet=faster kills. 5 applies cripple.

Greatsword 4 applies a cripple if you throw your sword. It is very unreliable to use, but if you land it your target is crippled. 5 is a 1 sec stun/daze (2 if traited).

Axe 3 provides a chill.

Dagger 5 is a cripple again.

Warhorn 5 provides more swiftness.

The harpoon gun has a cripple on 2, and our spear has an immobilize on 5.

Chasing enemies down has never been so easy ;D

zTales.4392:

Manekk.6981:

How long a pet with natural healing can stay up against what? pointless exercise if you ask me we already know exactly how much it heals.

If you like testing this stuff then I think you should simply start from the bottom test pets at 0/10/20/30 points in BM both on stationary and moving golem and then add on traits to the tests after you have done the base without them.

This would be nice to compare the same pet at diffrent points in BM rather than just h2h against a diffrent animal aswell.

If the pet dies in 10-20 seconds, then Natural Healing may not be worth it. It may be better to use the 10 points on something else. That’s why I want to know.

If you read the original post, you’d know that I did do the sort of tests you’re talking about. :I

Edit: Oh, that is, “base” tests. There’s not much of a point in testing at 0/10/20/30. We all know that it’ll increase damage done by the pet. What we don’t know is which pets work best with which traits. Not in detail, anyway.

You only tested 3 pets with 20points in BM that’s not what I said, and of course I did read the OP or was it updated and I missed it?

Also what pet with natural healing is going to stay up against what?

Anyway it was just a suggestion cause it seemed like you were getting a little bit here a little bit there, it’s your test do it as you like.

Manekk.6981:

zTales.4392:

Manekk.6981:

How long a pet with natural healing can stay up against what? pointless exercise if you ask me we already know exactly how much it heals.

If you like testing this stuff then I think you should simply start from the bottom test pets at 0/10/20/30 points in BM both on stationary and moving golem and then add on traits to the tests after you have done the base without them.

This would be nice to compare the same pet at diffrent points in BM rather than just h2h against a diffrent animal aswell.

If the pet dies in 10-20 seconds, then Natural Healing may not be worth it. It may be better to use the 10 points on something else. That’s why I want to know.

If you read the original post, you’d know that I did do the sort of tests you’re talking about. :I

Edit: Oh, that is, “base” tests. There’s not much of a point in testing at 0/10/20/30. We all know that it’ll increase damage done by the pet. What we don’t know is which pets work best with which traits. Not in detail, anyway.

You only tested 3 pets with 20points in BM that’s not what I said, and of course I did read the OP or was it updated and I missed it?

Also what pet with natural healing is going to stay up against what?

Anyway it was just a suggestion cause it seemed like you were getting a little bit here a little bit there, it’s your test do it as you like.

I tested 3 pets with 20 points in BM, yea. Once on a stable target, with no traits. Once on a moving target, with no traits. Then I did it again on a moving target, but with Agility Training. So I did do a base test. :P

I’m going to pit a jaguar, a wolf, and a bear against one of the training NPCs. 30 points in BM, no traits. I’ll just time how long they last, then I’ll test it again a few more times. After that, I’ll give them the Natural Healing trait and see if there’s a significant difference. If there’s not, then I’ll just take Agility Training over Natural Healing for the damage increase. :P

zTales.4392:

Manekk.6981:

zTales.4392:

Manekk.6981:

How long a pet with natural healing can stay up against what? pointless exercise if you ask me we already know exactly how much it heals.

If you like testing this stuff then I think you should simply start from the bottom test pets at 0/10/20/30 points in BM both on stationary and moving golem and then add on traits to the tests after you have done the base without them.

This would be nice to compare the same pet at diffrent points in BM rather than just h2h against a diffrent animal aswell.

If the pet dies in 10-20 seconds, then Natural Healing may not be worth it. It may be better to use the 10 points on something else. That’s why I want to know.

If you read the original post, you’d know that I did do the sort of tests you’re talking about. :I

Edit: Oh, that is, “base” tests. There’s not much of a point in testing at 0/10/20/30. We all know that it’ll increase damage done by the pet. What we don’t know is which pets work best with which traits. Not in detail, anyway.

You only tested 3 pets with 20points in BM that’s not what I said, and of course I did read the OP or was it updated and I missed it?

Also what pet with natural healing is going to stay up against what?

Anyway it was just a suggestion cause it seemed like you were getting a little bit here a little bit there, it’s your test do it as you like.

I tested 3 pets with 20 points in BM, yea. Once on a stable target, with no traits. Once on a moving target, with no traits. Then I did it again on a moving target, but with Agility Training. So I did do a base test. :P

I’m going to pit a jaguar, a wolf, and a bear against one of the training NPCs. 30 points in BM, no traits. I’ll just time how long they last, then I’ll test it again a few more times. After that, I’ll give them the Natural Healing trait and see if there’s a significant difference. If there’s not, then I’ll just take Agility Training over Natural Healing for the damage increase. :P

I forsee an annoying unsatisfactory test session with idiot NPCs that will insist on ignoring pets and going straight for the owner :o

Personally I can’t go without this trait going from 20 to 30 in BM feels like doubling your pets survival to me wich is strange since 125h/s really isn’t much but then again it’s also 100toughness 100vitality on that heal, I also use signet of the wild so it all adds up to a strong pet.

Manekk.6981:

zTales.4392:

Manekk.6981:

zTales.4392:

Manekk.6981:

How long a pet with natural healing can stay up against what? pointless exercise if you ask me we already know exactly how much it heals.

If you like testing this stuff then I think you should simply start from the bottom test pets at 0/10/20/30 points in BM both on stationary and moving golem and then add on traits to the tests after you have done the base without them.

This would be nice to compare the same pet at diffrent points in BM rather than just h2h against a diffrent animal aswell.

If the pet dies in 10-20 seconds, then Natural Healing may not be worth it. It may be better to use the 10 points on something else. That’s why I want to know.

If you read the original post, you’d know that I did do the sort of tests you’re talking about. :I

Edit: Oh, that is, “base” tests. There’s not much of a point in testing at 0/10/20/30. We all know that it’ll increase damage done by the pet. What we don’t know is which pets work best with which traits. Not in detail, anyway.

You only tested 3 pets with 20points in BM that’s not what I said, and of course I did read the OP or was it updated and I missed it?

Also what pet with natural healing is going to stay up against what?

Anyway it was just a suggestion cause it seemed like you were getting a little bit here a little bit there, it’s your test do it as you like.

I tested 3 pets with 20 points in BM, yea. Once on a stable target, with no traits. Once on a moving target, with no traits. Then I did it again on a moving target, but with Agility Training. So I did do a base test. :P

I’m going to pit a jaguar, a wolf, and a bear against one of the training NPCs. 30 points in BM, no traits. I’ll just time how long they last, then I’ll test it again a few more times. After that, I’ll give them the Natural Healing trait and see if there’s a significant difference. If there’s not, then I’ll just take Agility Training over Natural Healing for the damage increase. :P

I forsee an annoying unsatisfactory test session with idiot NPCs that will insist on ignoring pets and going straight for the owner

Ugh, do they really do that? xD

That’s annoying. I’d really like to know if Natural Healing is really all that great. I mean if it heals for 125 per second, and a fight lasts 40 seconds, that’s a lot of HP healed! But if you give your pet Agility Training, that’ll boost your pet’s effectiveness by a lot. According to my testing, it’d cut down the time you’re stuck in a fight in half. Then again, the more cripples and chills and such that I inflict on my target, the smaller that gap will become. Okay, so say it takes 30 seconds instead of 40. Is it worth it?

If we’re gonna’ speculate here (because I have to at this point) then I’ll guess that Agility Training buffs a pet’s damage by at least 15% simply because it can hit more often. Plus, my pet will be able to catch people who are running away. That’s especially great in WvW. So what’s better? 125 HP per second, or a buff that allows your pet to chase people down and do more damage? I don’t know. It seems to me like Agility Training would be more beneficial, but I really don’t know. :I

Edit: The only way to completely solve my issue, I think, would be to take Natural Healing and also put Signet of the Hunt in one of my utility slots. But I don’t wanna’ sacrifice my utility! Someone help me. xD

Speed signet ftw.

Puandro.3245:

Speed signet ftw.

Do you ever use the active ability? :o

See, I’d have to replace Sic ‘Em with SotH if I used it. I’m not so sure I want to do that.

zTales.4392:

Manekk.6981:

zTales.4392:

Manekk.6981:

zTales.4392:

Manekk.6981:

How long a pet with natural healing can stay up against what? pointless exercise if you ask me we already know exactly how much it heals.

If you like testing this stuff then I think you should simply start from the bottom test pets at 0/10/20/30 points in BM both on stationary and moving golem and then add on traits to the tests after you have done the base without them.

This would be nice to compare the same pet at diffrent points in BM rather than just h2h against a diffrent animal aswell.

If the pet dies in 10-20 seconds, then Natural Healing may not be worth it. It may be better to use the 10 points on something else. That’s why I want to know.

If you read the original post, you’d know that I did do the sort of tests you’re talking about. :I

Edit: Oh, that is, “base” tests. There’s not much of a point in testing at 0/10/20/30. We all know that it’ll increase damage done by the pet. What we don’t know is which pets work best with which traits. Not in detail, anyway.

You only tested 3 pets with 20points in BM that’s not what I said, and of course I did read the OP or was it updated and I missed it?

Also what pet with natural healing is going to stay up against what?

Anyway it was just a suggestion cause it seemed like you were getting a little bit here a little bit there, it’s your test do it as you like.

I tested 3 pets with 20 points in BM, yea. Once on a stable target, with no traits. Once on a moving target, with no traits. Then I did it again on a moving target, but with Agility Training. So I did do a base test. :P

I’m going to pit a jaguar, a wolf, and a bear against one of the training NPCs. 30 points in BM, no traits. I’ll just time how long they last, then I’ll test it again a few more times. After that, I’ll give them the Natural Healing trait and see if there’s a significant difference. If there’s not, then I’ll just take Agility Training over Natural Healing for the damage increase. :P

I forsee an annoying unsatisfactory test session with idiot NPCs that will insist on ignoring pets and going straight for the owner

Ugh, do they really do that? xD

That’s annoying. I’d really like to know if Natural Healing is really all that great. I mean if it heals for 125 per second, and a fight lasts 40 seconds, that’s a lot of HP healed! But if you give your pet Agility Training, that’ll boost your pet’s effectiveness by a lot. According to my testing, it’d cut down the time you’re stuck in a fight in half. Then again, the more cripples and chills and such that I inflict on my target, the smaller that gap will become. Okay, so say it takes 30 seconds instead of 40. Is it worth it?

If we’re gonna’ speculate here (because I have to at this point) then I’ll guess that Agility Training buffs a pet’s damage by at least 15% simply because it can hit more often. Plus, my pet will be able to catch people who are running away. That’s especially great in WvW. So what’s better? 125 HP per second, or a buff that allows your pet to chase people down and do more damage? I don’t know. It seems to me like Agility Training would be more beneficial, but I really don’t know. :I

Edit: The only way to completely solve my issue, I think, would be to take Natural Healing and also put Signet of the Hunt in one of my utility slots. But I don’t wanna’ sacrifice my utility! Someone help me. xD

Well to be honest signet of the wild is a much better passive heal than natural healing if you have any sort of healing power, that didn’t help you decide at all hahahahahahaha :P

zTales.4392:

Puandro.3245:

Speed signet ftw.

Do you ever use the active ability? :o

See, I’d have to replace Sic ‘Em with SotH if I used it. I’m not so sure I want to do that.

Yes, first you can preload it cause the buff lasts 16min or something so you can start with having both speed aswell as 50%damage on your pets next attack, second it’s pretty nice to use it on petswap when pets start with their big cd attacks to boost them even more especially if you have raven or cat this alone will produce 5k+ crits on a squishie.

Regarding Sic ‘Em I don’t like it because it’s so unreliable, it’s a totally kitten skill and virtually anything can and will cancel the buff even some pet abilities wich you have no control over whatsoever will cancel it if I’m not mistaken, mindboggeling how stupid that is really.

Manekk.6981:

zTales.4392:

Puandro.3245:

Speed signet ftw.

Do you ever use the active ability? :o

See, I’d have to replace Sic ‘Em with SotH if I used it. I’m not so sure I want to do that.

Yes, first you can preload it cause the buff lasts 16min or something so you can start with having both speed aswell as 50%damage on your pets next attack, second it’s pretty nice to use it on petswap when pets start with their big cd attacks to boost them even more especially if you have raven or cat this alone will produce 5k+ crits on a squishie.

Regarding Sic ‘Em I don’t like it because it’s so unreliable, it’s a totally kitten skill and virtually anything can and will cancel the buff even some pet abilities wich you have no control over whatsoever will cancel it if I’m not mistaken, mindboggeling how stupid that is really.

This. Sic Em is a bit buggy in PvP. I dknt use the signet active once im in a fight though because it will slow my pet down.

Manekk.6981:

zTales.4392:

Puandro.3245:

Speed signet ftw.

Do you ever use the active ability? :o

See, I’d have to replace Sic ‘Em with SotH if I used it. I’m not so sure I want to do that.

Yes, first you can preload it cause the buff lasts 16min or something so you can start with having both speed aswell as 50%damage on your pets next attack, second it’s pretty nice to use it on petswap when pets start with their big cd attacks to boost them even more especially if you have raven or cat this alone will produce 5k+ crits on a squishie.

Regarding Sic ‘Em I don’t like it because it’s so unreliable, it’s a totally kitten skill and virtually anything can and will cancel the buff even some pet abilities wich you have no control over whatsoever will cancel it if I’m not mistaken, mindboggeling how stupid that is really.

Yea, I noticed that Sic ’Em does get canceled a lot.

And I didn’t know that about SotH. o.o Thanks! Now the switch sounds much more appealing.

I guess I’ll just do my tests with SotH from now on, ‘cause I guess I’ll be using it! Problem solved! xD

New compiled list of tests for later:
1. Jaguar vs wolf on a stationary target. 30 points in BM.
2. Jaguar vs wolf on moving targets. 30 points in BM and Signet of the Hunt.
3. Jaguar vs wolf on moving targets. Pet’s Prowess and 30 points in BM.
4. Jaguar vs wolf on moving targets. Pet’s Prowess, SotH, and 30 points in BM.
5. Jaguar on moving targets. Pet’s Prowess, SotH, Rending Attacks, and 30 points in BM.
6. Jaguar vs snow leopard on moving targets. Pet’s Prowess, SotH, Commanding Voice, and 30 points in BM. I’ll spam their F2 abilities.

I’ll add to it later. I need to start with the basics. x.x

Puandro.3245:

Manekk.6981:

zTales.4392:

Puandro.3245:

Speed signet ftw.

Do you ever use the active ability? :o

See, I’d have to replace Sic ‘Em with SotH if I used it. I’m not so sure I want to do that.

Yes, first you can preload it cause the buff lasts 16min or something so you can start with having both speed aswell as 50%damage on your pets next attack, second it’s pretty nice to use it on petswap when pets start with their big cd attacks to boost them even more especially if you have raven or cat this alone will produce 5k+ crits on a squishie.

Regarding Sic ‘Em I don’t like it because it’s so unreliable, it’s a totally kitten skill and virtually anything can and will cancel the buff even some pet abilities wich you have no control over whatsoever will cancel it if I’m not mistaken, mindboggeling how stupid that is really.

This. Sic Em is a bit buggy in PvP. I dknt use the signet active once im in a fight though because it will slow my pet down.

Yeah kitten Sic ‘Em, I like to use the signet but it also depends alot on who you are fighting I find, I love to roam and when fighting against 2 or more the speed is clearly worth more than 1 extra damage boost but there are situations when it’s prefect to use it, like when getting jumped by a thief you don’t need the speed then cause you won’t see the little sheit half the time anyway and neither does your pet but it’s the perfect petswapwithsignetboostedthiefeatingblackkitteningjaguartime!

I just realized that I called my control a “constant.” Fixed that. I guess that’s what I get for posting this topic so late. lol.

When I post the new tests, should I make a new thread? After all, it no longer concerns Agility Training. It’ll be about SotH, Pet’s Prowess, the wolf vs the jaguar, and the snow leopard vs the jaguar. What the heck do you title something like that? lol

The Tales of z – Stuff. That’s what you name it.

Eurantien.4632:

The Tales of z – Stuff. That’s what you name it.

Well, that’s … interesting? xD

I’ll be online soon. Expect data in 3-4 hours.

Also worthy of note in this discussion, BM trait “Intimidation Training” adds a cripple on F2 to canines and spiders. It could be seen somewhat of a mixed blessing, since, for example, wolf’s Fear won’t send targets as far as normal because they’re crippled, but, your Fern hound’s AOE heal is now also an AOE cripple. It might be worth it if the main thing you’re trying to do is maximize CC.

I won’t be able to post stuff tonight. I didn’t get much done at all.

I’ll finish everything up tomorrow and then post it!

zTales.4392:

Spirit.9158:

Thanks for this! I was really surprised to see the differences in times as well, I didn’t expect them to be quite like that. Like others have said, I tend to run SotH for the 25% for both myself and my pet, can’t stand running at normal speed, it feels so slow. I can’t wait to see what these other things show!

Just curious, what’s your build like? Your traits and utilities? I go 0/20/20/0/30 or 0/30/20/0/20, but I’m unsure about utilities. :I

Currently I use Lightning Reflexes, Quickening Zephyr, and Sic ‘Em. I’m not sure about it, though. I plan on doing a lot of solo/small group WvW later on, so I thought maybe a trap build would be cool, but I don’t know. I like the idea of catching people in traps, but you can see the traps, and I don’t even know how long they last. Plus, don’t you need to spec into traps to make them effective at all? I have so many questions. xD

Sorry for the late reply, only just saw this post! Ya I also go 0/20/20/0/30, and normally I tend to use three signets, Signet of the Hunt, Signet of the Wild and Signet of Stone; I never really considered Signet of Stone until recently, and I love it. I have considered swapping one out for Lightning Reflexes, another escape would be good as the weapons I prefer at the moment are GS and SB, they have a couple of escapes but sometimes aren’t that useful in some situations. I want to get into using a Sword/Dagger combination to help my pet even further with the cripples etc. just need practice with it.

I’m very new to WvW, only been taking part in it for about a week and I use this build in there, some may chastise me for that but I think it works quite well – I’ve had many players think I’m an easy target because I’m a ranger and end up running away. I also swap out SotH when I don’t need it for a trap, either Spike or Frost trap for the impaired movement – again better for my pet. I haven’t used Sic ‘Em since for a good while, I used it while leveling but noticed it got cancelled too much (like others have said). I also use Healing Spring, I don’t like to roam solo much, I prefer small skirmishes for my playstyle so I want to help my team in some way. There are so many good builds floating around the forums if you want to be effective with roaming, check those out too!

Spirit.9158:

snip

Thanks, Spirit!

Okay, so, here we go! MOAR DATA.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo101/zTales/Guild%20Wars%202/JAGvsWOLF.png
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo101/zTales/Guild%20Wars%202/JAGvsSNOW.png

They came out blurry. Not sure why.

zTales.4392:

Spirit.9158:

snip

Thanks, Spirit!

---

Okay, so, here we go! MOAR DATA.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo101/zTales/Guild%20Wars%202/JAGvsWOLF.png
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo101/zTales/Guild%20Wars%202/JAGvsSNOW.png

They came out blurry. Not sure why.

Can we get a TLDR for ppl at work?

Puandro.3245:

zTales.4392:

Spirit.9158:

snip

Thanks, Spirit!

---

Okay, so, here we go! MOAR DATA.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo101/zTales/Guild%20Wars%202/JAGvsWOLF.png
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo101/zTales/Guild%20Wars%202/JAGvsSNOW.png

They came out blurry. Not sure why.

Can we get a TLDR for ppl at work?

Snow Leopard beats Jaguar on moving targets by 8 seconds.
Rending Attacks doesn’t make a big difference on stationary targets, nor does Expertise Training, even when they’re used together.

Jaguar beat the Wolf on the stationary target by 6 seconds.
Wolf beat the Jaguar on the moving target by 11 seconds.
SotH boosted the Jaguar’s effectiveness on moving targets by 16 seconds.
SotH boosted the Wolf’s effectiveness on moving targets by 7 seconds.
Pet’s Prowess boosted the Jaguar’s effectiveness on moving targets by 12 seconds.
Pet’s Prowess boosted the Wolf’s effectiveness by 9 seconds.
SotH -and- Pet’s Prowess boosted the Jaguar’s effectiveness on moving targets by 22 seconds.
SotH -and- Pet’s Prowess boosted the Jaguar’s effectiveness on moving targets by 10 seconds.

All this was done with 300 points in BM. :P

Try rending attacks and expertise training on the moving golem instead logically they should be alot more benefitial there (or any longer fight of course) the stationary golem dies too fast for them to make much diffrence, it’s dots after all.

Wish I could do it myself but my internet has aids I can barely manage to open those images

Manekk.6981:

Try rending attacks and expertise training on the moving golem instead logically they should be alot more benefitial there (or any longer fight also) the stationary golem dies too fast for them to make much diffrence, it’s dots after all.

Yep, I’mma do that later. :P

Forzani.2584:

Zenith.7301:

Forzani.2584:

Manekk.6981:

Forzani.2584:

What this test says to me is to use dogs. Unless you are fighting a stationary target.

If you don’t have any traits that enhance pets and don’t plan to help them yes, now if the ranger starts to cripple, chill and stun the target it will be a little diffrent or very diffrent actually.

How so ? Please explain.

Pure damage dog and cat are very similar with agility training.
Without Agility it is a rout in dogs favor.
Stationary cat wins….but not as lopsided as without agility.

Obviously the Ranger will try and use some CC to help the pet. Still, even then the cat barely wins…and that is not even taking into account the dogs own CC ….3 per dog. If you are any kind of kiter then that pet CC is invaluable.

I would suggest the Rangers build and play style would play a part in the decision making. A burst melee Ranger would have a stationary target for the pet to hit so in that situation I would go with cat.

I am only concerned with WvW. I am sure pve…dungeons and PvP are quite different.

You know those guardians and eles and engineers? That stability part? Your wolf does crap.

Your wolf will also never crit someone for 8-9k with cooldowns.

I know Guardians and Warriors can block arrows. I will still use my SB though. I didn’t realize Guardi and, Eles and Engineers had 100% stability.

How will your cat crit any of those classes for 9k when they can’t hit them when they are moving ? I’m sure the cat critted now and then during the testing provided yet the damage was half of what the dogs was on a moving target. Don’t forget about pets HPs either. When a Warrior actually does get close to you and starts cleaving with axe or GS see how long the cat stays up compared to the wolf. I like my Jag….provided it does overwhelming higher damage than the dog. These tests say they don’t. /shrug

Use whatever pets you prefer. I was just commenting on the numbers provided by the testing.

Guardians or warriors blocking arrows? What spvp guardian brings wall of reflection. Maybe in scrub zerg wvw, but in spvp bows do just fine.

Guardians and eles can achieve long enough stability to kill you, to the point of bringing a wolf is more because of the cripple.

Sersiously, there’s a reason why raven and jaguar are used. They do so much more damage in most situations, and most importantly they do the most desirable type of damage — burst damage.

Wolfs are brought solely for their CC or against a duel with a guy that has a lot of swiftness/dodging.

Zenith.7301:

Forzani.2584:

Zenith.7301:

Forzani.2584:

Manekk.6981:

Forzani.2584:

What this test says to me is to use dogs. Unless you are fighting a stationary target.

If you don’t have any traits that enhance pets and don’t plan to help them yes, now if the ranger starts to cripple, chill and stun the target it will be a little diffrent or very diffrent actually.

How so ? Please explain.

Pure damage dog and cat are very similar with agility training.
Without Agility it is a rout in dogs favor.
Stationary cat wins….but not as lopsided as without agility.

Obviously the Ranger will try and use some CC to help the pet. Still, even then the cat barely wins…and that is not even taking into account the dogs own CC ….3 per dog. If you are any kind of kiter then that pet CC is invaluable.

I would suggest the Rangers build and play style would play a part in the decision making. A burst melee Ranger would have a stationary target for the pet to hit so in that situation I would go with cat.

I am only concerned with WvW. I am sure pve…dungeons and PvP are quite different.

You know those guardians and eles and engineers? That stability part? Your wolf does crap.

Your wolf will also never crit someone for 8-9k with cooldowns.

I know Guardians and Warriors can block arrows. I will still use my SB though. I didn’t realize Guardi and, Eles and Engineers had 100% stability.

How will your cat crit any of those classes for 9k when they can’t hit them when they are moving ? I’m sure the cat critted now and then during the testing provided yet the damage was half of what the dogs was on a moving target. Don’t forget about pets HPs either. When a Warrior actually does get close to you and starts cleaving with axe or GS see how long the cat stays up compared to the wolf. I like my Jag….provided it does overwhelming higher damage than the dog. These tests say they don’t. /shrug

Use whatever pets you prefer. I was just commenting on the numbers provided by the testing.

Guardians or warriors blocking arrows? What spvp guardian brings wall of reflection. Maybe in scrub zerg wvw, but in spvp bows do just fine.

Guardians and eles can achieve long enough stability to kill you, to the point of bringing a wolf is more because of the cripple.

Sersiously, there’s a reason why raven and jaguar are used. They do so much more damage in most situations, and most importantly they do the most desirable type of damage — burst damage.

Wolfs are brought solely for their CC or against a duel with a guy that has a lot of swiftness/dodging.

PvE
Dungeons
sPvP
hotjoin PvP
WvW zerg
WvW small man
WvW solo

Many types of game play. Your advice about pets concerns SPvP…which sounds like great advice if I participated. I only do solo WvW.

The thing really is that it won’t stack with any other sources of movementspeed so it will be close to wasted in the following situations:

• ranger runs Signet of the Hunt (this is already about 60% of all current builds I see)
• ranger has other sources of swiftness for the pet (longbow 3, warhorn, rampage as one)
• ranger is running in parties where swiftness has nearly 100% uptime anyways
• ranger runs a cc heavy buidl himself that pins down the enemy for the pet
• bird pets have inbuilt swiftness

So no I won’t use it. There might be a few builds/situations that really avoid swiftness totally somehow and there I might get it.

zTales.4392:

jubskie.3152:

Can you do the same test with just SotH?

Mmhm. I mean you guys are gonna’ have to wait like 13 hours (I have work) but I can do it! I don’t think it’ll make a big difference at all. The only reason to take SotH over the trait, I think, would be the +25% speed bonus you get.

Also, I’m going to do:
*Moving targets with Pet’s Prowess and 30 points in BM.
*Moving targets with Pet’s Prowess, Agility Training, and 20 points in BM. (The build I was going to switch to.)
*Jaguar on moving targets with Pet’s Prowess, Agility Training, Rending Attacks, and 20 points in BM.
*How long a pet can stay up without Natural Healing.
*How long a pet can stay up with Natural Healing.

Any update on this?

jubskie.3152:

zTales.4392:

jubskie.3152:

Can you do the same test with just SotH?

Mmhm. I mean you guys are gonna’ have to wait like 13 hours (I have work) but I can do it! I don’t think it’ll make a big difference at all. The only reason to take SotH over the trait, I think, would be the +25% speed bonus you get.

Also, I’m going to do:
*Moving targets with Pet’s Prowess and 30 points in BM.
*Moving targets with Pet’s Prowess, Agility Training, and 20 points in BM. (The build I was going to switch to.)
*Jaguar on moving targets with Pet’s Prowess, Agility Training, Rending Attacks, and 20 points in BM.
*How long a pet can stay up without Natural Healing.
*How long a pet can stay up with Natural Healing.

Any update on this?

Kinda. I didn’t end up doing 20 BM, I ended up doing 30 BM.

http://s366.photobucket.com/user/zTales/media/Guild%20Wars%202/JAGvsWOLF.png.html

http://s366.photobucket.com/user/zTales/media/Guild%20Wars%202/JAGvsSNOW.png.html

That’s all I got done so far. I also did some Natural Healing and Signet of the Wild regen tests, but that’s on a flash drive at home (I’m not home! lol).

I was gonna’ make a new thread, but I dunno’ if I should.

Edit: I also still need to do the jaguar on moving targets with Pet’s Prowess, Agility Training, Rending Attacks, and 30 points in BM.

@zTales

Many, many thanks for posting this.

I appreciate seeing hard numbers rather than hearsay. I personally haven’t used this trait before but I’ll be sure to give it a try with my trapper and berserker builds now. I always use the Jag so it’s great news.

Bryzy.2719:

@zTales

Many, many thanks for posting this.

I appreciate seeing hard numbers rather than hearsay. I personally haven’t used this trait before but I’ll be sure to give it a try with my trapper and berserker builds now. I always use the Jag so it’s great news.

Also, SotH works just as well if you don’t mind losing a utility slot!

I did use the jaguar, but now I use the snow leopard for the chill pounce. I’m liking it a lot.

My wolf routinely leap crits for 5.5k to 6k with the same buffs that you’d use for Jaguar/Bird burst.

I’ll take a 5.5k-6k knockdown over a small amount more damage (provided the target isn’t moving), thanks.
I normally run bird for the burst as a second pet but I might try out Snow Leopard as a second for that chill. Sometimes when I feel I need more CC I run Drakehound in addition to my wolf, but 8 seconds of chill is pretty obscene. I run entirely melee (Sword/Dagger, Greatsword) so an 8second chill could give me a huge edge on reducing incoming damage and keeping a target near me. Excited to get home and try that out.