Guild Wars 2

This is a list of all ranger skills i think are neclected or lackluster.

Signets: Signets have a function in PvE and SoS has a also a position in PvE but they all feel kinda lackluster or have to long CD.

Spirits: Frost- and Sunspirit are used in PvE for buffing but are pidgeonholded for Raidcontent. Stone- and Stormspirit are barely seen in any content.

Survival: LR and ZS are more or less used but could use a CD reduction. SS and MT are used to but feel lackluster especially SS.

Traps: Frosttrap and Vipersnest are inferior to the other two.

I do not make suggestions at first i want to hear others and discuss.
Feel free to suggest.

Sharpening Stone was buffed 3 different ways a few months ago. It’s better but not in a way that would make you want to pick it up if you hadn’t already been using it or were on the fence.

I actually see muddy terrain used on occasion but to me it’s the cast time that really holds it down more than anything. Also it doesn’t do anything special for many; as popular as longbow is, it too has an aoe cripple field.

InsaneQR.7412:

This is a list of all ranger skills i think are neclected or lackluster.

Signets: Signets have a function in PvE and SoS has a also a position in PvE but they all feel kinda lackluster or have to long CD.

Spirits: Frost- and Sunspirit are used in PvE for buffing but are pidgeonholded for Raidcontent. Stone- and Stormspirit are barely seen in any content.

Survival: LR and ZS are more or less used but could use a CD reduction. SS and MT are used to but feel lackluster especially SS.

Traps: Frosttrap and Vipersnest are inferior to the other two.

I do not make suggestions at first i want to hear others and discuss.
Feel free to suggest.

Just by saying everything is lackluster doesn’t provide enough feedback to make your post worth looking at. And it should not be “Before I suggest anything I want to hear others.” You should post how you feel before you expect others to tell you how they feel.

However; Spirits are fine. I still use 5 of 6. Water, Stone, Frost, Sun, and Nature in raids. I use Sun and Frost in Dungeons and Fracts as well during boss encounters where we are in controlled areas. i.e. Molten furnace and boss, volcanic, battlefield, Mai, Cliffside, Uncat, etc, you get my point. I will say, however, that Storm spirit has zero use given how easy vuln is to apply game wide without an additional 75% chance and the activation skill doesn’t do enough to take it. Storm, however, is the ONLY spirit I’d say is truly lackluster and is due for a rework.

Traps are fine as well. Saying that vipers nest is inferior to the others is actually quite wrong. Vipers is actually much better than spike. Spike procs once with a 6 second bleed on a forty-five second cd and no combo field. Vipers procs 3 times for 9 poison stacks on a 20s cd and provides a combo poison field for projecting through for more poison. Frost trap, however, is still niche to PvP and WvW, but is still useful. Just like spike might be more useful in PvP/WvW due to it’s added launch. I use Vipers and Flame trap when on the move before switching to spirits for boss fights.

Signets I also have to disagree. These are tide turning abilities in PvP and I’ve used all but stone in PvE for boss encounters and solo roaming on power builds. My only issue is with hunt being just one attack. Should be boosted to the next three attacks. Stone is an Oh Shait button that gets you out of danger, so deserves the high cd (though I will still kick rangers running this on sight as it shows lack of skill in PvE) and Renewal, though cd is a little high, is also great when people on your team don’t build into high condi removal. Wild turns you and your pet into the hulk for 8 seconds, the 60s cd isn’t unfair, but could possibly be lowered in PvE.

Survival: You say that SS is lackluster, but it’s really not. It applies 6 stacks of 10s(base) bleeds, which is 20s with 100% condi duration, on a 30s cd. That’s only 10s down time on those bleeds, if even that, given the 1 stack per hit causing it to spread the application. Still a good skill. I use it as one of my primary skills and is part of the meta for raids. LR and QZ have fine cds. QZ breaks stun and grants 6s of superspeed and quickness. Not sure how much PvP you play but this allows for a nice break away from pressure or allows for bursting down an enemy in your face or trying to get away. LR, also as a PvP skill, is very strong, even with its high cd. Evade, stun break, 10s vigor, removes immob, and deals dmg to melee attackers. 40s cd on this is fine. I don’t use MT at all but I’m sure it has its applications somewhere in PvP or WvW.

What people seem to overlook when they come right out and start saying all their utilities are worthless is that not all skill are meant to be top tier in their game mode. Ranger has a nice kit, though some are very niche, they almost all have a place somewhere and are useful. This is more than I can say for some other classes. So before calling all of our utilities “lackluster”; look at the bigger picture and all possible applications and possible reasons for having a high cd.

Utilities are meant for just that, utility. Though some do function as actual attacks, such as our traps with their low cds, they are meant to be used strategically to get you out of trouble, help you take down tough targets, help you hinder escaping targets, or supporting allies. They are not all meant to be these “spam on cooldown” skills that everyone treats their weapon skills as. But that’s just my two cents.

Going to agree with Vyriis. Most of which you listed received something within the past year or so. Sure, there are those that could still use some minor tweaks, but overall they are solid.

I mostly agree with what Vyriis said.

I’ll just say that although traited spirits are wonderfull as semi passive support. But the active part of the spirit is what need work. Spirits as they are do not make those skills shine and just can’t do it.

I personnally don’t like the new “guard!” and have trouble finding use for glyph of unity (well it’s probably meant for PvP anyway) but that’s all.

If anything core pet’s skills need work (and I mean a lot of work or simply a rework of the pet system altogether) and some irregularities like “ICD + % chance to proc” need to be simplified (I’m sure it would only do good to the game to remove the % chance to proc when there is already an ICD). And yes pets skills are supposed to be utilities for us.

As someone running trapper runes in WvW, I have to disagree that they are ‘fine’. Not being throwable and not being instant hurt them a LOT.

I also disagree spirits are fine, I know of zero builds (non-PvE) that use them. It’d be nice if they’d make them useful as GW1 spirits were pretty awesome.

Agree about survival skills for the most part. Only MT is truly useless and SS is…ok I guess. If you want high bleeds just use SB. Otherwise 6 stacks of bleeds is not going to hurt all that much (especially when opponents can cleanse pretty fast and it’s on a 30s cooldown).

Gotejjeken.1267:

As someone running trapper runes in WvW, I have to disagree that they are ‘fine’. Not being throwable and not being instant hurt them a LOT.

I also disagree spirits are fine, I know of zero builds (non-PvE) that use them. It’d be nice if they’d make them useful as GW1 spirits were pretty awesome.

Guess you missed the part where I say that not all skills are going to be top tier for all game modes. Spirits are a PvE based skill. They do have a place in PvP, though not “meta”, in which they are effective. Now, yes, they do suffer uselessness in WvW but that’s mostly due to blob vs blob gameplay.

As for traps: You’re going to ask for spirits to be more like GW1 spirits while asking that traps not be anything like GW1 traps or even be “traps” for that matter. Traps are meant to be placed ahead of where your enemy is going to be in order to disrupt and ensnare them. Not throw them over walls like grenades. The traps we have are already better than what they were in GW1 as they only take half a second to place rather than the two seconds they took in GW1. Also they do about as much as they did when triggered in GW1, so there’s that as well.

Now as for my wording of “They are fine”. They are fine; not great, not horrible, but in that spot where they are still usable and effective in niche situations. Builds change from game type to game type and that’s the way it should be. Or you learn to use them effectively, unconventionally, in your game type. Just like in GW1, or any game for that matter, you can’t expect them to make every skill as good as it’s going to be in any game type for every game type. It’s just not going to happen.

Now is this me saying that they shouldn’t be improved a bit? No. But this is me saying that they aren’t as “lackluster” as the op is looking at them as being or that they are completely useless and need major reworkings. They are, as far as I can see, in a spot where they allow Rangers to be viable in all game modes using different builds.

Not sure why you’re making like a 96th thread but whatever:

Fluffball.8307:

Is there a worse trait anywhere in GW2 than Predator’s Instinct? This could be a fun mini-game in LA where you win a bag of masterwork gear for naming a worse trait.

Fluffball.8307:

Not sure why you’re making like a 96th thread but whatever:

Fluffball.8307:

Is there a worse trait anywhere in GW2 than Predator’s Instinct? This could be a fun mini-game in LA where you win a bag of masterwork gear for naming a worse trait.

He was talking about skills not traits… Otherwise I’d have a lot more to say

Vyriis.6258:

Gotejjeken.1267:

As someone running trapper runes in WvW, I have to disagree that they are ‘fine’. Not being throwable and not being instant hurt them a LOT.

I also disagree spirits are fine, I know of zero builds (non-PvE) that use them. It’d be nice if they’d make them useful as GW1 spirits were pretty awesome.

Guess you missed the part where I say that not all skills are going to be top tier for all game modes. Spirits are a PvE based skill. They do have a place in PvP, though not “meta”, in which they are effective. Now, yes, they do suffer uselessness in WvW but that’s mostly due to blob vs blob gameplay.

As for traps: You’re going to ask for spirits to be more like GW1 spirits while asking that traps not be anything like GW1 traps or even be “traps” for that matter. Traps are meant to be placed ahead of where your enemy is going to be in order to disrupt and ensnare them. Not throw them over walls like grenades. The traps we have are already better than what they were in GW1 as they only take half a second to place rather than the two seconds they took in GW1. Also they do about as much as they did when triggered in GW1, so there’s that as well.

Now as for my wording of “They are fine”. They are fine; not great, not horrible, but in that spot where they are still usable and effective in niche situations. Builds change from game type to game type and that’s the way it should be. Or you learn to use them effectively, unconventionally, in your game type. Just like in GW1, or any game for that matter, you can’t expect them to make every skill as good as it’s going to be in any game type for every game type. It’s just not going to happen.

Now is this me saying that they shouldn’t be improved a bit? No. But this is me saying that they aren’t as “lackluster” as the op is looking at them as being or that they are completely useless and need major reworkings. They are, as far as I can see, in a spot where they allow Rangers to be viable in all game modes using different builds.

Technically you can run anything and it will work. Spirits are in need of a rework, otherwise you’d see someone, somewhere making a build with them in it. Might not be on Metabattle, but someone would be doing it.

The last spirit ranger I saw at all in this game was when they could still move. That’s been what, a year and a half ago now?

Also, no I don’t want traps to work like GW1. GW2 is far more action based, which is why traditional traps are nonsense. My point with spirits was if they are going to make them stationary, at least make them useful like in GW1.

It is true a skill won’t always be useful in every mode, but some of our stuff like traps and spirits are either never worth it to take or almost never worth it to take. I’d put spirits at ‘never worth it’ as you can get much better performance elsewhere, and traps ‘almost never’ because trapper runes exist.

Dadnir.5038:

He was talking about skills not traits… Otherwise I’d have a lot more to say

Oh goodness. That’s what a bottle of wine will do.

Vyriis.6258:

InsaneQR.7412:

This is a list of all ranger skills i think are neclected or lackluster.

Signets: Signets have a function in PvE and SoS has a also a position in PvE but they all feel kinda lackluster or have to long CD.

Spirits: Frost- and Sunspirit are used in PvE for buffing but are pidgeonholded for Raidcontent. Stone- and Stormspirit are barely seen in any content.

Survival: LR and ZS are more or less used but could use a CD reduction. SS and MT are used to but feel lackluster especially SS.

Traps: Frosttrap and Vipersnest are inferior to the other two.

I do not make suggestions at first i want to hear others and discuss.
Feel free to suggest.

Just by saying ev……..

……my two cents.

To give you some perspective this is mainly PvE. I didnt gave suggestions because of a lack of time and it gives good discussing material instead of bold suggestions you could agree or disagree with.

I posted this post to point out that not all skills are chosen equally and i play ranger now since launch and know that these skills are quite underused or has some major drawback despite its use.

I mean vipersnest is inferior to Flame Trap because of the Cd (which is ok, vipers does more poison stacks) but only can hit 3 targets which makes it the inferior choice to Flame Trap. Frost Trap is inferior to Spiketrap because spike trap has the better CC and with Ancient Seeds it does 11 bleed stacks out of the bat which makes it competitive with vipers too(which is fine too).

Increase target of Vipers to 5, increase its duration for about a second to get more use of the combo field.

Frostrap: Add stunbreaker and a pull (similar to dragon maw but withou the stun<- this could be a little bit OP i have to say) to balance this increase its CD by 5s. This way targets cannot just roll out of the trap and the stunbreak has its uses.

Problem with Spirits is not that the buff is useful its lackluster because of the wonky ICD of the Spirits and the % chance they give. Additionally there are better ways to buff party members in cases of protection and swiftness. Remove the ICD keep the % chance. make the spirits moveable again and give the spirits a Shatter like beahaviour on activation (it runs to its target and activates).

Suggestions:
Water: Chance to produce a heal wave in a small area on hit. Activation has a 3s waterfield.
Sun: Chance to inflict a fiery explosion similar to sigil but with burning application on main target.
Frost: Fine.
Stone: Instead of giving protection give 5 people 10% dmg reduction right of the bat.
Storm: Instead of giving swiftness give something like a sigil of air bonus where you have a chance to do a bonus hit.
Nature: heals when get struck (scales of healing power)

Survival:
QZ: 50s CD for 6s quickness. Rev can have these 6s and after 20s he can have it again. Mesmer can basically have perma quickness.
I would cut down the CD by 10s.

LR: Is good but i would increase the dmg a little bit and CD reduction by 5s would be neat.

SS: Its lackluster because its one condition on one target, for example: Spike Trap does 5 stacks of bleeding on 5 targets, with AS it does 11 stacks of bleeding on 5 targets with a 15seconds longer CD.
To give it a unique bonus instead of plain condi bonus, give it unblockable attacks for a short duration after activation.

MT: It has a good soft CC application but there are traps that have better CC applications on multiple targets than muddy terrain and LB #5 does additionally dmg to the AoE cripple field. Give it a raw dmg application to give it a better spot on the bar for dmg builds.

Entangle is good but i feel an explo finisher is missing.

Shout: Sickem: the reveal should be AoE and it has its only use if the pet is your main dmg source. it would be better IMO if the dmg boost is 20% on both of you and your pet gets swiftness and quickness on its own.

Signets:

First of all Stone is fine, its a good Oh kitten button for extrem situations. But for PvE it has a to long CD and a CD reduction in PvE would be appropriate.

Signet of the Hunt: Make it like sharpening stone next 4 or so attacks do more dmg.

Signet of the wild: Same as Stone to long CD for PvE. A Cd of 45 seconds would be nice, and the enlargement (the visual effect and not the attack and movements speed) is kinda unneccesary but this is off topic)

Signet of renewal: If youu got a lot of conditions on you its a kill button for your pet, give your pet some seconds of resistance on activation and reduce its CD in PvE to 50s.

Now feel free to critizes..

Gotejjeken.1267:

Also, no I don’t want traps to work like GW1. GW2 is far more action based, which is why traditional traps are nonsense. My point with spirits was if they are going to make them stationary, at least make them useful like in GW1.

You know, ranger’s nature spirits in GW1 were double edge sword that made you suffer as much as it made suffer your foes. Players had to build their whole party around each and every spirit they added in their build to make them “work” or be useful. At the moment in GW2, ranger’s nature spirits are way more friendly user and useful that they ever were in GW.

QZ: 50s CD for 6s quickness. Rev can have these 6s and after 20s he can have it again. Mesmer can basically have perma quickness.
I would cut down the CD by 10s.

QZ is also a stunbreak and traited it become a skill that stun break, grant fury, superspeed and quickness and cleanse conditions on top of that. Ask revenant if they want a skill like that.

Spirits are the only ones that I would consider reworking, but not because they are lackluster per-say. I personally do not like ICDs, the % chances, and how Water Spirit depends on Nature’s Vengeance to be decent.

As for the rest, I do want to see Signet of Stone get a 5 second cooldown reduction. Yeah, it’s not much, but I wanna see a clean 75s/60s cooldown that’s comparable to other high-cooldown defensive utilities.

5 seconds less, Anet. That’s all I’m asking for

Sic E’m is fairly useless except maybe for a very few in sPvP. You need to target the enemy and predict when they are going to use invisibility. I would like to see Sic E’m work without a target and affecting all invisible enemies in range for 10 seconds. This would make the Ranger better at countering enemies inside fortifications.

Signet of Renewal is similarly limited in capability. Most of the time you won’t have conditions and others removing one condition isn’t going to help.

Stone: Instead of giving protection give 5 people 10% dmg reduction right of the bat.

why would you trade 33% for a 10% mod.
and wouldn’kitten bit too op if that thing is traited with natures vengeance.

stone spirit is in a right spot atm. even tho its probably only used for xera and matthias by most groups.

skarpak.8594:

Stone: Instead of giving protection give 5 people 10% dmg reduction right of the bat.

why would you trade 33% for a 10% mod.
and wouldn’kitten bit too op if that thing is traited with natures vengeance.

stone spirit is in a right spot atm. even tho its probably only used for xera and matthias by most groups.

I thought of the blunt dmg reduction because this way it could stack with protection and it would not be OP if you consider that a guardian can run signet and hammer with basically perma 43% dmg reduction. (signet plus protection, even more when Signet traited). Furthermore is it possible to counter a spirit in pvp and in PvE it would come in handy.

And for the comment of the OP, rev can cleanse condition break stun on legendswap and can use impossible odds with way less CD than QZ. QZ could use some CD reduction in PvE everything else is fine.

InsaneQR.7412:

Problem with Spirits is not that the buff is useful its lackluster because of the wonky ICD of the Spirits and the % chance they give. Additionally there are better ways to buff party members in cases of protection and swiftness. Remove the ICD keep the % chance. make the spirits moveable again and give the spirits a Shatter like beahaviour on activation (it runs to its target and activates).

I feel as though if Spirits were to get some form of rework, as in rebalancing them without ICDs and such, they should be done somewhat differently rather than unified. Not that they all are as Nature Spirit is the exception with a heal-over-time bonus.

I’m all right with your Stone Spirit suggestion and reasoning for a flat 10% damage reduction. Personally, I’d like to see some of the other Spirits provide more active means for their effects. Like:

Also, I always believed Spirit actives should be creating a field of their element. Stone could leave an ethereal field to give us another access to it while Nature can leave a light field.

Not sure why it hasn’t been done yet, but I supposed that can be something introduced into traits, as a single spirit trait is kind of lacking (to me). Anet seems content with leaving Spirits as boon-turrets, so possibly another Spirit trait to augment this?

Have a new trait that increases passive and active ranges on Spirits by 50%. This would allow Rangers to trait for improved coverage of the battlefield in compensation for the loss of Spirits Unbound. Then, change the increased active range on Nature’s Vengeance (as it would be on the other trait) to Spirit actives now create a 3s, 240 or 360 radius combo field.

Spit-balling at this point, but maybe there’s something there; none of which are low-hanging fruit so…

Wondrouswall.7169:

InsaneQR.7412:

Problem with Spirits is not that the buff is useful its lackluster because of the wonky ICD of the Spirits and the % chance they give. Additionally there are better ways to buff party members in cases of protection and swiftness. Remove the ICD keep the % chance. make the spirits moveable again and give the spirits a Shatter like beahaviour on activation (it runs to its target and activates).

I feel as though if Spirits were to get some form of rework, as in rebalancing them without ICDs and such, they should be done somewhat differently rather than unified. Not that they all are as Nature Spirit is the exception with a heal-over-time bonus.

I’m all right with your Stone Spirit suggestion and reasoning for a flat 10% damage reduction. Personally, I’d like to see some of the other Spirits provide more active means for their effects. Like:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Water Spirit: No ICD and % chance removed. Heal on-hit and scaling is 7% of its current numbers. That makes it out to be 56HP on-hit with a 0.0068 scaling. Higher than Vampiric Presence and 67% lower than Signet of Malice, as this is a group buff.

Note that the passive activation of the buff does not currently contribute to Astral Force generation. I would be okay with that persisting with this change so it isn’t an instant AF filler with Druid slotted.

Storm Spirit: No ICD and 50% chance on-hit to apply 1 stack of vulnerability (3s). Similar to Engineer’s Heavy Armor Exploit trait, but on-hit rather than on-critical. Short duration keeps it fairly tame with opportunity for more stacks during rapid hits.

Sun Spirit: No ICD and every 8 strikes applies 1 stack of burning (3s) on a foe. A single-target version of Permeating Wrath that will make Sun Spirit much more active with a potential of additional burning with more hits. Single-target keeps it in check.

Also, I always believed Spirit actives should be creating a field of their element. Stone could leave an ethereal field to give us another access to it while Nature can leave a light field.

Not sure why it hasn’t been done yet, but I supposed that can be something introduced into traits, as a single spirit trait is kind of lacking (to me). Anet seems content with leaving Spirits as boon-turrets, so possibly another Spirit trait to augment this?

Have a new trait that increases passive and active ranges on Spirits by 50%. This would allow Rangers to trait for improved coverage of the battlefield in compensation for the loss of Spirits Unbound. Then, change the increased active range on Nature’s Vengeance (as it would be on the other trait) to Spirit actives now create a 3s, 240 or 360 radius combo field.

Spit-balling at this point, but maybe there’s something there; none of which are low-hanging fruit so…

I would rather give stone spirit a dark or a smoke field. This way it could give lifesteal or stealth and would either give some more regen or would give spirits a place in pvp/wvw.
Lightfield on Nature sounds reasonable and useful.

Your passive suggestions sound good especially the water one. I would keep the sunspirit as i suggested thou.

What’s neclected? Is that like neglected but for necklaces? Neglected necklaces?

InsaneQR.7412:

And for the comment of the OP, rev can cleanse condition break stun on legendswap and can use impossible odds with way less CD than QZ. QZ could use some CD reduction in PvE everything else is fine.

Well… QZ is only one skill and it does a few thing thanks to just 1 trait. The revenant is force into a set of skill for impossible odds and have to take a few traits to achieve what you are describing. By itself, impossible odds will never be able to achieve what QZ can achieve. At the same time, we can’t expect QZ to achieve what Impossible Odds achieve.

Along with QZ, you will be able to chose :
- among a few healing skill that are user friendly.
- to take a few other stunbreaker
- combo fields
- crow control skills
- support skills
- strenghtening skills… etc.

While still have access to your class mechanism which can provide you with :
- Cleanse
- controle
- support
- dps

On the other hand, Impossible Odds may grant you maybe 20 seconds of quickness and superspeed with an effective cool down of 10 seconds and a lot of constraints.

I’m just saying that a cool down reduction on QZ is not needed. It certainly is something that a lot of people want but it’s not needed. Arguing that impossible Odds do the same but better is a nosense, because impossible odds is balanced around the limits of the revenant while QZ is balanced around the limits of the ranger. And rangers and revenants have very different limits.

It’s like saying : “please reduce time warp cool down to 90 seconds because _”feel my wrath!“_ cool down is 45 seconds. It would be fair because TW give 10 second quickness while FMW give 5 seconds.” Nosense!

Dadnir.5038:

InsaneQR.7412:

And for the comment of the OP, rev can cleanse condition break stun on legendswap and can use impossible odds with way less CD than QZ. QZ could use some CD reduction in PvE everything else is fine.

Well… QZ is only one skill and it does a few thing thanks to just 1 trait. The revenant is force into a set of skill for impossible odds and have to take a few traits to achieve what you are describing. By itself, impossible odds will never be able to achieve what QZ can achieve. At the same time, we can’t expect QZ to achieve what Impossible Odds achieve.

Along with QZ, you will be able to chose :
- among a few healing skill that are user friendly.
- to take a few other stunbreaker
- combo fields
- crow control skills
- support skills
- strenghtening skills… etc.

While still have access to your class mechanism which can provide you with :
- Cleanse
- controle
- support
- dps

On the other hand, Impossible Odds may grant you maybe 20 seconds of quickness and superspeed with an effective cool down of 10 seconds and a lot of constraints.

I’m just saying that a cool down reduction on QZ is not needed. It certainly is something that a lot of people want but it’s not needed. Arguing that impossible Odds do the same but better is a nosense, because impossible odds is balanced around the limits of the revenant while QZ is balanced around the limits of the ranger. And rangers and revenants have very different limits.

It’s like saying : “please reduce time warp cool down to 90 seconds because _”feel my wrath!“_ cool down is 45 seconds. It would be fair because TW give 10 second quickness while FMW give 5 seconds.” Nosense!

I am not saying other skills provides more, i just wanted to point out that the quickness alone didnt justify the CD and the fact that its stunbreak neither. The CD is justified in PvP but in a PvE perspective it would come more in handy and could compeed better with other Stunbreaks/cleanses. I have to say its not neccesary but the idea is not totally out of place. And again: PvE perspective not PvP. They split things nowadays.