Guild Wars 2

The purpose of this thread is to outline why Rangers feel outclassed and simply useless in sPvP and tPvP in hopes that Anet can address these issues in an organized manner.

Things to note: Almost every player in every profession feels this way in a sense because everyone dies at least some of the time in sPvP, so lets refrain focusing too much on what class
is OP and whatnot.

So let’s explain to arena net why we feel so terrible about where the ranger stands post SB nerf.

Template: I think that ranger is bad because [your reason]

Or: I think that ranger is good because [your reason]

Or: I think that people should stop complaining because [your reason]

The other templates are for people who disagree with the subject of this thread and wish to explain themselves without derailing the thread or flaming other forum members.

Mine-

I think that ranger is bad because rangers don’t have a solidified role in tPvP and the last thing Anet needs to do, is to nerf an already nerfed/underpowered class in order to achieve balance.

I think the ranger needs work because none of its highly situational weapons are good at their assigned roles.

Take for example the longbow – this is supposed to be a long range weapon, yet when used at long range in PvP 90% of the arrows miss a non-stationary target, many more are obstructed, the fire rate is so slow that one can only get off a few shots before either they go out of range or come so close as to reduce the damage to effectively zero.

Shortbow is better but the bleeds are virtually useless in anything other than 1v1 pvp or surprise attacks because of the difficulty in flanking the enemy, the number 2 poison skill is absolutely terrible, and the stun skill on 4 is so short that its only use is to interrupt channeled attacks.

Axe is ok, but rangers are too squishy to survive long at close enough range to a group enemy players, so its multi-target ability is wasted.

Melee weapons… good luck going melee in WvW as a ranger.

I think the issue is pretty simple.

The game needs ‘defined’ classes that are either

- Ranged
- Melee

When you ‘mix’ the two, you get obviously the issue that is going on…the more ‘armored’ classes become the favorites because 1) they have good armor, toughness, survival, hp and 2) they have RANGE and can do pretty decent damage and then close on you and then do even better damage.

Why play Ranger when Warrior can do all you can do, just in a different ‘flair/playstyle’ and on top, doesn’t have to bother with a buggy pet.

I understand their goal/concept here, but it’s not working out for PvP or WvWvW.

If you are going to make all classes have ranged skills, then ARMOR needs to account for WEIGHT and affect MOVEMENT SPEED. Therefore, ranged characters in lighter armor, can kite, move more effectively.

Otherwise, you have to go the WoW route and assign melee and ranged rolls. Just like hunters, mages, priests, warlocks in WoW are range, you need the similar thing here.

I’ve been doing tPvP whole day today and i was the only ranger in a “premade” (besides Team Tusnami that also had a ranger), and saw only ONE pug group that had 2 rangers in it. Everything else was some other class besides ranger..

This is very sad, and i’ve already started testing a mesmer since its the most bursty class (shatter spec), it has a huge tons of utility and buffs and escape routes (blink and decoy).

I have enjoyed playing my Ranger since early release, but as of last week I have just about stopped logging in completely. I find myself sitting and chatting in guild chat because my Ranger has been reduced to a pin cushion for other classes to beat on. I used to win 75% of my 1v1 battles in WvW, but since the patch I am down near 10% in the win department. I have full exotic gear to include all of the accessories.

In order to follow the OP template, here is my opinion.

I think the Ranger was good, but is now a bad class to play. They have no real utility in a group and the pet commonly misses attacks. Additionally the SB was nerfed to a point that it is nearly not usable in WvW because a Warrior or Mesmer or just about any other class will smack your face around while you try to apply 8 bleeds to them. Melee on the Ranger, just try it and let us know how that goes for you. If you choose to go with the LB, then get ready for a lot of missing and slow cast times.

This is merely my opinion, but starting tonight I think I am going to take a couple of weeks off from the game and see where Anet is after that. If things have not improved, I will either re-roll another toon or just take an extended break and maybe move on to something else.

What is my opinion based on?:
My Ranger has 100% map discovering.
He played dungeons for about ~5200 tokens (including Arah and Eternity).
Plus: quite a while spent playing WvW.
I have 3 complete exotic sets for him and switch them several times in the same instance adjusting my playstyle, masteries and gear to my enemies.

=> I will mainly base my opinion on “endgame-PvE” and WvW.
—————————————————————————————————
I think the ranger is bad because he neither excels in a certain role, nor is a decent hybrid.

Also he his maximum (damage) potential is limited by KI which doesn’t even have a dodge skill in its kit.
—————————————————————————————————
1)
-Ranger are bad supporters because ghosts die easily within random AoEs (WvW, PvE-Dungeon-problem)
—————————————————————————————————
2.)
-Ranger are bad damage dealers because their damage is split between their pet and the actual character.
Regardless how good you play your ranger, you will always be limited in your maximum power by a KI-guided bot. (Which can’t even hit a running target with 30% extra movementspeed AND swiftness)
Also: Pets die easily within AoE, see WvW or Arah/Eternety for further details.
—————————————————————————————————
3.)
-Rangers lack a reliable condition remove
—————————————————————————————————
4.)
All ranger weapons are highly situational.
You’ld need at least 3 weapon slots to be decently equipped at the current state of ranger weapons.

-Longbow: Low dps and an insane damage loss when your enemy has some kind of gapcloser

-Axe: Only decent if fight at least 2 enemies hugging each other

-Shortbow: since the recent “animation-fix” it can’t compete anymore with rifle Warriors, pistol Theivesoder, or rifle Engeneers.

-Greatsword: The mix between condition- and normal damage really screw up your equipment/mastery-tree. Yet you won’t ever reach the damage a Warrior can dish out with the same weapon.
Sidenote: You have much less base armor aswell

-1H-Sword: Clumsy “1”-chain which can’t be interrupted by a dodge roll, making it basically suicide in dungeons.
“2” has a quite long delay before it actually activates.
—————————————————————————————————
5.)
-Certain traits are put into traitlines which are hindering for the build they belong into.
Example: Trapps requite precision-traits, while bow mastery grants longer condition and wilderness survival grants higher condition damage.

Edit:
Sidenote:
A dual sword Warrior with ~750 condition damage can pull of a ranged bleeding for ~5800 damage while a shortbow- Ranger with ~1200 condition damage only hits for ~310 with a single spell.
Thus a “close-combat” Warrior can cause the bleeding from ~18,7 Ranger Shortbow attacks at the range of an axe-using Ranger. *

Somebody definitely should look at those numbers!

*(Might from “FGJ!” and Signet NOT included, which make it 6,8k)

I think unfortunately, the designed class ‘combat’ system is just not working in PvP.

Again, why play a Ranger when you can play a LongBow or Rifle Warrior, have more HP, more survival, better melee?

Ranger is probably the most broken class right now. They really need to do a class pass ASAP and figure out what is going to change.

Again, might now like WoW, but the one thing they have correct is either you are a melee or range…you can’t be both….that is why there are so many Warriors and Guardians…range skills that are amazing and then melee skills that are amazing plus the best HP and survival.

I think that ranger is bad because:

• lack of direction/class dynamic other then pets. many of the melee weapons are focused on mobility and moderate damage, but many melee players will get mowed down very quickly by other melee classes. our supposed “ranged superiority” is non-existant as a i can get mowed down pretty fas due to a mesmer’s “ranged” greatsword.

• it seems to me that the devs put on balance and ranger skills didn’t know what to really do with the ranger, it’s all over the place. we can’t be a bunker like a guardian, we can’t just kills a guy in 2 seconds like the thief, nor can we be that effective for support like the warrior (who is also pretty tanky and pretty good with their dps)

I think that ranger is good because:

• i find the profession fun, it’s pretty frustrating though now that the weapon i built my entire build on since the beginning of the game is 20% less effective then it used to be. this isn’t a bad thing though as it forces more dynamic play.

• i designed my character as a lone-wolf travelling around, raiding camps and planning ambushes with my trusty fernhound companion. and it fits. i like the concept.

• i don’t mind the pet dynamic, i like it actually. it allows me to be very adaptive. the unfortunate thing is pet’s are easy to kite and easily 1/3-1/2 our dps is gone. the dps we that allowed us to be on par with everyone else isn’t hitting so what should we do?

Or: I think that people should stop complaining because:

• rangers feel like they were backed into a corner to the usage of SB+quickness. i’ll probably run sb/sw+wh for a while even if it’s not the most effective ranger tool set, because i just got used to playing how i play. i think rangers do have a right to complain.

Other notes:

• nerfing effectiveness (case-study: shortbow) doesn’t make more builds suddenly better, it makes that build just as crappy as the others. increasing the effectiveness of the other weapons/fixing the current problems brings out more competitive builds. a class should have a direct 50% win rate against all other classes and all other builds.
  i don’t mind a short bow nerf. because numbers wise: if our pets did hit we would actually be pretty good.

Ryth.6518:

I think the issue is pretty simple.

The game needs ‘defined’ classes that are either

- Ranged
- Melee

When you ‘mix’ the two, you get obviously the issue that is going on…the more ‘armored’ classes become the favorites because 1) they have good armor, toughness, survival, hp and 2) they have RANGE and can do pretty decent damage and then close on you and then do even better damage.

Why play Ranger when Warrior can do all you can do, just in a different ‘flair/playstyle’ and on top, doesn’t have to bother with a buggy pet.

I understand their goal/concept here, but it’s not working out for PvP or WvWvW.

If you are going to make all classes have ranged skills, then ARMOR needs to account for WEIGHT and affect MOVEMENT SPEED. Therefore, ranged characters in lighter armor, can kite, move more effectively.

Otherwise, you have to go the WoW route and assign melee and ranged rolls. Just like hunters, mages, priests, warlocks in WoW are range, you need the similar thing here.

Really excellent point. Anet needs to look at what other games have done. Dark Souls is a really good example of balancing weapons and classes for the most part.

The stamina bar in that game affects how often you can attack and dodge, so you can’t spam 1 key or you’ll get tired out. If you wear heavy defensive armor, you dodge slower and can dodge less often, where as if you wear light gear you gain speed and mobility at the expense of defense.

Smaller weapons that have huge spike riposte like daggers have less range so it’s harder to hit someone with it than a long sword.

The current setup in GW2 doesn’t take any of that into account. And the problem gets even more compounded when certain classes simply has way more burst potential than others and you’ll end up with things like the Warrior and Thief.

Aridia.3042:

Ryth.6518:

I think the issue is pretty simple.

The game needs ‘defined’ classes that are either

- Ranged
- Melee

When you ‘mix’ the two, you get obviously the issue that is going on…the more ‘armored’ classes become the favorites because 1) they have good armor, toughness, survival, hp and 2) they have RANGE and can do pretty decent damage and then close on you and then do even better damage.

Why play Ranger when Warrior can do all you can do, just in a different ‘flair/playstyle’ and on top, doesn’t have to bother with a buggy pet.

I understand their goal/concept here, but it’s not working out for PvP or WvWvW.

If you are going to make all classes have ranged skills, then ARMOR needs to account for WEIGHT and affect MOVEMENT SPEED. Therefore, ranged characters in lighter armor, can kite, move more effectively.

Otherwise, you have to go the WoW route and assign melee and ranged rolls. Just like hunters, mages, priests, warlocks in WoW are range, you need the similar thing here.

Really excellent point. Anet needs to look at what other games have done. Dark Souls is a really good example of balancing weapons and classes for the most part.

The stamina bar in that game affects how often you can attack and dodge, so you can’t spam 1 key or you’ll get tired out. If you wear heavy defensive armor, you dodge slower and can dodge less often, where as if you wear light gear you gain speed and mobility at the expense of defense.

Smaller weapons that have huge spike riposte like daggers have less range so it’s harder to hit someone with it than a long sword.

The current setup in GW2 doesn’t take any of that into account. And the problem gets even more compounded when certain classes simply has way more burst potential than others and you’ll end up with things like the Warrior and Thief.

Yep…they really need to address this ASAP or they are going to lose a lot of players. Right now, it’s a MAJOR issue, especially for Rangers.

I know it would be rare, but they really need to re-think their class designs and possibly address this with a class pass and maybe go the WoW route with melee/range classes. I don’t think their combat system is working out for PvP and it’s causing people to quit.

I know this is not the best place to post this and some people may have already seen it but I figured I’d throw my two cents in as well.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Integrating-GW2-Skill-Design/first#post422342

It’s rather long but it points out what I feel the problem is with some of the GW2 Design. There is also a Suggestions link at the bottom for things I personally would like to see to the Ranger. It’s all opinion based on experiences and conversations with others. If you share a diff view, more than welcome but don’t post it on this page and get it even more off topic xD Again, sorry for getting a little off topic but this link is why I think the Ranger is bad. Thank you and I like the idea of this thread.

Breaking the mold slightly here:

I think the Ranger is mediocre because he has plenty of great mechanics that have either been broken or fixed until they were broken.

Weapons, for example, are absolutely amazing…. on paper. We have 3 great ranged options that can fill a variety of builds from long, mid, or short range, with emphasis on condition, crit, or power as you choose. Or, at least they should be that way. Longbow hits like a wet noodle, Axes are only useful when 2 feet from the enemy and his friend standing next to him, and the Shortbow is usable but got trashed in the Quickness department.

Same thing with melee weapons, we can choose to be evasive like a Thief, or up-front like a Warrior. Yet, both options have issues. The MH sword roots on the auto attack and has horrendous tracking, and the GS is decent, but can’t move while blocking, has mixed condition/direct damage, and got nerfed hard for damage.

Utilities suffer to a worse degree. everything that is not a Survival Skill requires traits to be usable, and even then can be mediocre. Signets need a Grandmaster trait to use, and even then are weaker than other profession counterparts (Signet of the Hunt vs Signet of Shadows). Spirits are just plain awful, they require traits, die easily, and have rather weak boons. Shouts are, hands down, the worst utilities in game. Sic ’em and Protect Me have occasional usage, but Search and Rescue is a waste of a utility slot and Guard IS the worst utility in game. Traps are the diamond in the rough, however, as with proper traits a Trap Ranger can be great at control, support, and condition damage at the same time.

Pets, once again, great mechanic, bad execution. Pet swapping and abilities are an awesome concept, but don’t hold up. Pets are stupidly fragile, and are overly dependent on swapping to stay alive. However, if anything above trash-level mobs aggro them, it’s game over, assuming they haven’t died to a random AoE yet. Then there’s the whole issue with responsiveness and attacking moving targets.

The Ranger itself isn’t a bad class, it’s a great class in fact. It’s just that for every great build or style that comes along, there’s either a bug, nerf or other issue to drag it down.

Sco.9615:

I know this is not the best place to post this and some people may have already seen it but I figured I’d throw my two cents in as well.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Integrating-GW2-Skill-Design/first#post422342

It’s rather long but it points out what I feel the problem is with some of the GW2 Design. There is also a Suggestions link at the bottom for things I personally would like to see to the Ranger. It’s all opinion based on experiences and conversations with others. If you share a diff view, more than welcome but don’t post it on this page and get it even more off topic xD Again, sorry for getting a little off topic but this link is why I think the Ranger is bad. Thank you and I like the idea of this thread.

Sco I would post your stuff. Many people are not going to leave the forums to go to a Google Docs thing…due to risking their machines to a virus or something.

DoomBunny.2903:

The Ranger itself isn’t a bad class, it’s a great class in fact. It’s just that for every great build or style that comes along, there’s either a bug, nerf or other issue to drag it down.

^This.

The Ranger is and will always be many people’s favorite profession however when literally everything you want to do just either does not work, is bugged, poorly implemented, or just plainly has a poor design there isn’t much to do but make jokes…(which we tried and it was a sad day when that thread was closed…). I’m sure they may eventually find suitable fixes but frankly I’m already disgusted, betrayed, and depressed. I was so excited to play GW2 Ranger because it felt like they took everything from GW you wished you could do and said, “Oh, Ranger would be cool if they could do that!” and then said “Just kidding, we didn’t like that after all, sorry.” nerfed the crap out of it in a pre-mature panic and left us with nothing. So really, thank you for crushing the Ranger, we all really appreciate it(even before this SB fiasco). We’ll be happy when [IF] you fix it but till then I fully support all the “QQ” on this sub-forum.

Ryth.6518:

Sco.9615:

I know this is not the best place to post this and some people may have already seen it but I figured I’d throw my two cents in as well.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Integrating-GW2-Skill-Design/first#post422342

It’s rather long but it points out what I feel the problem is with some of the GW2 Design. There is also a Suggestions link at the bottom for things I personally would like to see to the Ranger. It’s all opinion based on experiences and conversations with others. If you share a diff view, more than welcome but don’t post it on this page and get it even more off topic xD Again, sorry for getting a little off topic but this link is why I think the Ranger is bad. Thank you and I like the idea of this thread.

Sco I would post your stuff. Many people are not going to leave the forums to go to a Google Docs thing…due to risking their machines to a virus or something.

Sadly It’s too long to post (each write up is >3 pages) and if some one is afraid of getting a virus from “google docs” then I probably don’t want those people reading it anyways xD. That’s why that warning page was implemented into the forums, to give you a chance to see where you are being taken before hand. Thank you for the suggestion tho, I appreciate you trying to help my friend!

Sco.9615:

The Ranger is and will always be many people’s favorite profession however when literally everything you want to do just either does not work, is bugged, poorly implemented, or just plainly has a poor design there isn’t much to do but make jokes…(which we tried and it was a sad day when that thread was closed…). I’m sure they may eventually find suitable fixes but frankly I’m already disgusted, betrayed, and depressed. I was so excited to play GW2 Ranger because it felt like they took everything from GW you wished you could do and said, “Oh, Ranger would be cool if they could do that!” and then said “Just kidding, we didn’t like that after all, sorry.” nerfed the crap out of it in a pre-mature panic and left us with nothing. So really, thank you for crushing the Ranger, we all really appreciate it(even before this SB fiasco). We’ll be happy when [IF] you fix it but till then I fully support all the “QQ” on this sub-forum.

I posted this somewhere else in this sub-forum, but I’ll drop it here:

The Ranger from the beta events is exactly what everyone has been asking for. Harder hitting Longbow/Greatsword, usable Spirits, great Traits, etc.

For funsies, here’s what would happened if the Beta nerfs were rolled back:

Greatsword damage buffed
Longbow Damage buffed
Spirit health increased
Honed Axes grants 33% crit
Evasive Purity removes ALL THE CONDITIONS!

Those are just the ones I recall off the top of my head, but you get the idea.

Now, before someone comes in here with the Buzzkilling Buzzsaw of Fun-ruining, yes, some aspects of the original Ranger needed a nerf. However, they only needed to be slightly toned down, not completely ruined. In fact, most of the nerfs really wouldn’t have made sense outside of the beta. GS burst is almost commonplace now with Quickness builds, and there are things far more durable than Spirit Builds.

Rangers are in a bad bad place. On top of it, the pets are just a mess.

This class really needs ‘attention’ from the developers. They really need to implement also the GW1 Ranger where you could go pet-less. That is something many people want.

There is definitely the “I don’t want to play Warrior or Thief, I want the Ranger but without a pet” group.

I really appreciate the feedback and I like all of your thoughts about the ranger class.
(I’ve read every single reply and have gotten new ideas for builds already!)

But if i were to ask a favor of you guys, it would be to keep your responses short in hopes that the developers have a higher chance to read/respond.

thanks!

Brannoncyll.1978:

I think the ranger needs work because none of its highly situational weapons are good at their assigned roles.

Take for example the longbow – this is supposed to be a long range weapon, yet when used at long range in PvP 90% of the arrows miss a non-stationary target, many more are obstructed, the fire rate is so slow that one can only get off a few shots before either they go out of range or come so close as to reduce the damage to effectively zero.

Shortbow is better but the bleeds are virtually useless in anything other than 1v1 pvp or surprise attacks because of the difficulty in flanking the enemy, the number 2 poison skill is absolutely terrible, and the stun skill on 4 is so short that its only use is to interrupt channeled attacks.

Axe is ok, but rangers are too squishy to survive long at close enough range to a group enemy players, so its multi-target ability is wasted.

Melee weapons… good luck going melee in WvW as a ranger.

Couldnt say it any better
Don’t forget pets as well though- they miss 85% of the times as well and die easily in pvp and in pve in dungeons most times they get one shotted!

Iv played hunter in wow and white lion(melee ranger) in warhammer.
What can i say, I like having a pet around and im not afraid to go into melee.

I think making the pet skills more responsive would go a long way to balance this class. since right now the pet doesnt add much when it matters(dungeons, wvw, pvp)

I also find it strange that the trap mastery is in the full crit/crit damage tree.

Rangers in this game use to not have to rely on the pet Mechanic as much.

However Anet thought this was wrong, so they spent a large portion of beta NERFING everything they came across, and then said “Well Pets can actually walk to their target now, so they must be fixed” and called it a day.

The way pets in this game work is an absolute joke compared to most MMO’s.

I mean who would think of ever making a class designed entirely around a pet that cannot hit a moving target in a game designed around dodging and evading? It is just all around bad designed on their part.

Sad thing is, I don’t expect it to be fixed, From reading..It sounds like based on every account Anet never gave a crap about the class in GW1 either..so I imagine it’ll sit and be mediocre for a very long time.

So my suggestion is if you can stomach leveling another toon in this game (which is a whole nother story or awful) level something else, Because they don’t care.

@Xsorus
To be perfectly honest I feel the same way. I want to say that I believe they’ll fix things but after playing GW for so many years I’ve just given up hope of ever having a decent Ranger class. Beta was fun because it was like “Omg no way they made such improvements to Ranger…!” Then they did the exact thing they always do, over nerf. ./disgusted. I would say I lost all my faith in the GW2 team in charge of this sick perversion they’ve been calling “balancing” since GW but you can’t lose something you already lost. ./sigh. I apologize for this rant. Please ignore it and keep on following the OPs idea everyone. Time to get back on track.

This is a misrepresentation. I play a ranger and don’t feel left in the dust.

I don’t feel left in the dust either, but as an avoidance class with a 3 legged dog as your back up winning 1vs1 isn’t that common.
In tight quarters we are pretty hosed.
In against kiting specced classes (cept mesmer) we are also hosed.

Ranger just doesn’t have a “tempo” to play too as others have pointed out it’s just a little off with it’s weapon sets .. disjointed. We still have deadly dps .. but we are primarily support .. and probably the best support in game. But pvp is about personal challenge and competition, not being able to lay out your cards in a skillful way and have it make a difference seems like a lame duck.

I’ve already adjusted to the new SB because we all did. I do PvE only, only time I go into the Mist is shortcut to LA.

The problem with Rangers are their broken skills and pet. Many of the skills don’t work as intended to in the tooltip. They are very buggy or just don’t work at all, so we are forced to use the very few utility skills that actually works into our builds.

Our weapon synergies don’t work well also. As someone mentioned, SB can’t decide if it wants to be melee or ranged. With the nerf, our bleed stacking went down far enough where I had to switch to a power build just to make up the damage lost. Why are we forced to use so much trait points, even into grandmaster line to get better abilities thieves and warriors have the moment they equip the respective weapon?

Rangers can’t do great damage because based on how the class was modeled to be effective with a pet, pets are useless. I COULD NOT see it more than my play last night. I am level 80, I went into a level 25-40 zone to help my friend out. I just tag a target and let my friend do the rest, (I have my pet on stay close to me) there I am trying to use F2 pet skill to give a boon to my friend. First time it doesn’t work, 2nd time pet ran to the enemy to attack so I had to call him back. Third time it didnt work and finally the 4th time, the F2 Skill just went on cooldown without it activating…. I mean WTF!? Four attempts and the skill didnt even activate yet went on CD. Can you imagine if I was flanking a mob or in pvp and this happens? And it happens frequently also.

Second problem with the pets, still in the same zone, we went up against a Veteran in an event. I’m downleveled of course but this shouldn’t matter with my trait points and gear so you show you how useless a pet is, he dies in 2 hits. A pet that can handle 4-5 enemies in a mob but gets KO’ed in 2 hits by a Veteran, not even a champion in a low level map… That is a major problem. There goes my pet that was designed to increase my DPS and after the new Quickness bug with the animation fix, swapping is kind of useless since the other pet will be KO’ed leaving me a a looonnngggg CD before I can use any pet again.

Edit: Additional stuff I forgot.

Spirits… I’ve tried using them for the first time last night also since on a low level map with a friend allowed me to try new things. You know what I think about spirits after wasting skillpoints on them? I WILL NEVER USE THEM AGAIN. That is how bad they are. That 20% to get a boon is stupid, we never received the boon when it was alive. I only managed to get hit once by an enemy BUT its HP bar went from full to about 25%, how weak can it be? Our support built isn’t viable when we are force to have a casting time to summon a spirit that Might NOT give us a boon, dies in 1 or 2 hits and must be traited to move? A warrior’s support build is OP when you consider it against ours. The banner will damage enemies when it comes down, IT CAN NOT BE TARGETED (MAJOR FOCUS), it can be picked up and moved by anyone, when picked up, it has it’s down skillset and MAJOR POINT… It gives 100% boon chance as long as you are within it’s aoe affect. HOW can you not see this side by side on paper and didn’t see the glaring differences? You write it up in a side by side chart and hold it to any person and they will see the difference right away. How could the devs not see it? Yet they decide to nerf Ranger’s spirits instead of a warrior’s banner…