Guild Wars 2

Pet damage was nerfed. Other stuff were nerfed too. Is it maybe possible that Anet is preparing the class for a mechanic-remake? (I.e. Pet system remake)

I honestly don’t think Anet is so stupid to nerf the bunker ranger and totally forget about the burstier builds.

Lol no keep dreaming.

I expect a future update to change beast mastery from a flat stat boost, to a percentage of the ranger’s stats…perhaps 1% per 2 points.

solrik.6028:

I honestly don’t think Anet is so stupid to nerf the bunker ranger and totally forget about the burstier builds.

Thus far they’ve proven otherwise.

Takes me back to a time when I actually had hopes. I’ve just accepted we’re staying as is.

solrik.6028:

I honestly don’t think Anet is so stupid to nerf the bunker ranger and totally forget about the burstier builds.

Never play Guild Wars 1?

Hope in one hand and **** in the other and see which one fills up first.

The pet/player relationship is likely close to where they like it. What’s the specific issue with pet damage? I barely even notice the change, thank god. It could be worse.

The spcific issue is that it was nerfed because of one specific pvp build. Instead of splitting pets from pvp/pve-wvw which would solved the problem, they nerfed pets on both sides of the field. Any DPS nerf hurts in a game where DPS is king.

It’d be nice if they’d stop being lazy and just split pvp/pve pets…. or just pvp and pve in general.

Chopps.5047:

The pet/player relationship is likely close to where they like it.

If that’s true, then it is a very very sad day for Rangers indeed.

I would like to point out at this juncture that through use of companion’s might, fortifying bond, and sigils of battle the pet can easily do more damage than before. What Anet set out to do and actually achieved is to take damage away from bunkers, a correctly spec’d ranger can have his pet do more dmg, as well as being tankier if you use guard.

I think the big shame from this patch is the death of the BM line except for using 10 points to get shout mastery in new bunker builds. I’d implore Anet to re-access all the master level traits and fast as right now they plain suck apart from making cats give bleeds.

Why do people keep trying to bring up beastmaster rangers from GW1? Those builds were nigh-unkillable with high unblockable damage output. If those kind of builds were in GW2 noone would be complaining.

Well … except for every other class …

Chopps.5047:

The pet/player relationship is likely close to where they like it. What’s the specific issue with pet damage? I barely even notice the change, thank god. It could be worse.

And here in a nutshell is the ArenaNet road ahead (as I’ve been saying for a couple of months now). They are making changes for the specific purpose of shaping perception. It’s the easy path to profession balance (nerf the shortbow to make the longbow better in comparison).

When they get everyone to think that things are fine because they could be worse, they’ve won and achieved their goal.

There is no secret plan. There are only tears.

All your base are belong to us :p

theres no secret plan..Anet believes that a tiny little buff can break the game but still a pretty hard nerf it wont..i remember a few patches back when they buffed spirits health pool for 25%,its was in a January-February update…Y 25%….only to realize a few months later that they have to add also another 60% to their health…And still spirits die like hell and need some more love too…
Seriously they afraid that adding little numbers in skills that are unquestionable underpowered is gonna break the game but removing big numbers from OP skills is gonna fix it..
To be fair i dont say that im not happy with the last patch..Actually i am a lot,some pets hit harder than before and i like the way we must build for pet dmg(not the old “put 30 in BM take a Jaguar and press /dance to win”)
I just say that with some things that are so underpower we cant make baby steps,im waiting since day 1 to be able to use a strong power build with LB,its not fair,still now we see the “out of range-obsctructed” bug.
These are the things that are gamebreaking not if you add 30% more dmg in LB skills(still it wont be viable)

solrik.6028:

I honestly don’t think Anet is so stupid to nerf the bunker ranger and totally forget about the burstier builds.

They’ll get to the burstier builds next patch.

Axe, torch, warhorn and Shortbow range lowered to 600.
Trap range lowered to 300.
Beastmaster’s might reduced to 60% chance on crit.
Quickness was previously only half as effective when using a shortbow has now been corrected to not work with shortbow.
Longbow damage increased outside of 900, decreased inside of 600.

Over the last 8 years ANet have let rangers slip into uselessness, nerfed any hope and ignored bugs and broken mechanics.

Why? Because ANet thinks there is no problem, everything is fine.

This is NOT going to change. ANet thinks there are no significant problems with rangers, they will not improve them. Expect future balance patches to have virtually no changes to ranger skills, ever.

And sadly, we don’t have subscription numbers to prove to Anet that they’re making a mistake. ESO is coming out soon, now is a great time to cement the unhappy players.

Have any of you guys tried my mighty ranger build? Right? You’re all PvE’ers, right? Maybe you just aren’t playing ranger optimally?

Chopps.5047:

Have any of you guys tried my mighty ranger build? Right? You’re all PvE’ers, right? Maybe you just aren’t playing ranger optimally?

Pvper here. And we’ve discussed this before Chopps, it’s not that we aren’t viable, it’s that everyone is a better choice than us. We’re like the Lone Wolves. We’re only good for soloing. We don’t share, don’t have a niche, and everyone does it better.

Chopps.5047:

Have any of you guys tried my mighty ranger build? Right? You’re all PvE’ers, right? Maybe you just aren’t playing ranger optimally?

Very few people are ever going to use your build. Many of us play the ranger specifically for bows (they’re iconic); your build doesn’t have any because both bows are bad. Until bows are good, their will be QQ. Ontop of that, you are running some serious might sharing with the pet and in many situations, the pet simply isnt going to live (or will need to be swapped, losing all the might) in fractals for that to be reasonable. Literally any other class brings more to the group right now than rangers.

But yeah, mostly bows.

Tsohg.1798:

Chopps.5047:

Have any of you guys tried my mighty ranger build? Right? You’re all PvE’ers, right? Maybe you just aren’t playing ranger optimally?

Pvper here. And we’ve discussed this before Chopps, it’s not that we aren’t viable, it’s that everyone is a better choice than us. We’re like the Lone Wolves. We’re only good for soloing. We don’t share, don’t have a niche, and everyone does it better.

Everyone is not better at dungeons than me with ranger I can tell you that for a fact. Ranger, by the way, stacks vulnerability easily, reflects, gives DPS buffs and protection to the team, aoe condition removal, water field, and damage/tank with pet while resurrecting. Ranger gets a long stability that’s very useful, along with a fire field and permanent 25 might on pet.

I. Disagree. You, sir, need practice. If you don’t like ranger in dungeon, say so, but to say any classes are anything but marginally better or worse is to lie. There’s a huge skill factor none of the people in your camp take into account either.

I could play warrior right now in dungeon and I would do awful. “Crit dmg not in the precision line? What the hell…warrior sucks” because I know nothing about warrior. :p

Raven.9603:

Chopps.5047:

Have any of you guys tried my mighty ranger build? Right? You’re all PvE’ers, right? Maybe you just aren’t playing ranger optimally?

Very few people are ever going to use your build. Many of us play the ranger specifically for bows (they’re iconic); your build doesn’t have any because both bows are bad. Until bows are good, their will be QQ. Ontop of that, you are running some serious might sharing with the pet and in many situations, the pet simply isnt going to live (or will need to be swapped, losing all the might) in fractals for that to be reasonable. Literally any other class brings more to the group right now than rangers.

But yeah, mostly bows.

You can use bows with my build, it’s your choice. Sorry I have a preference for no bows…sorry I like to stack might and reflect. Longbow is great for many encounters though and I switch to it often. You should watch me play once to get a feel for how to play ranger in dungeon.

Ultimately, I believe a player is a fool if they are serious about ranger in dungeons and won’t try new builds. It’s odd to say “no one will ever” because I don’t think like that. Seriously, if you don’t try this build but want to continue kittening and moaning be my guest. You won’t be helping your party and you’ll be at 1500 range at the wrong time and your party will hate you. That’s just how it is, regardless of your idealistic notion of bows.

Chopps.5047:

Tsohg.1798:

Chopps.5047:

Have any of you guys tried my mighty ranger build? Right? You’re all PvE’ers, right? Maybe you just aren’t playing ranger optimally?

Pvper here. And we’ve discussed this before Chopps, it’s not that we aren’t viable, it’s that everyone is a better choice than us. We’re like the Lone Wolves. We’re only good for soloing. We don’t share, don’t have a niche, and everyone does it better.

Everyone is not better at dungeons than me with ranger I can tell you that for a fact. Ranger, by the way, stacks vulnerability easily, reflects, gives DPS buffs and protection to the team, aoe condition removal, water field, and damage/tank with pet while resurrecting. Ranger gets a long stability that’s very useful, along with a fire field and permanent 25 might on pet.

I. Disagree. You, sir, need practice. If you don’t like ranger in dungeon, say so, but to say any classes are anything but marginally better or worse is to lie. There’s a huge skill factor none of the people in your camp take into account either.

I could play warrior right now in dungeon and I would do awful. “Crit dmg not in the precision line? What the hell…warrior sucks” because I know nothing about warrior. :p

First of all, don’t question my skill, I don’t question yours, I speak highly of you, do not speak lowly of me.
Second, 25 might on pet is pointless when it’s dead
Third, You are apparently the most skilled ranger ever made, if you can do better than all the other classes.
Fourth, if your build is that good, and it makes the difference between skilled an unskilled, that’s an issue, having only one playable build is NOT what this game is supposed to be about.

Sandpit.3467:

Over the last 8 years ANet have let rangers slip into uselessness, nerfed any hope and ignored bugs and broken mechanics.

Why? Because ANet thinks there is no problem, everything is fine.

This is NOT going to change. ANet thinks there are no significant problems with rangers, they will not improve them. Expect future balance patches to have virtually no changes to ranger skills, ever.

Sorry. Hate to burst your bubble, but it’s only been in the last year and only in GW2. GW1 rangers have remained highly viable with a large amount of powerful builds. A large number of builds I could provide you were you to ask.

Chopps.5047:

Everyone is not better at dungeons than me with ranger I can tell you that for a fact. Ranger, by the way, stacks vulnerability easily, reflects, gives DPS buffs and protection to the team, aoe condition removal, water field, and damage/tank with pet while resurrecting. Ranger gets a long stability that’s very useful, along with a fire field and permanent 25 might on pet.

So you’re saying you’re the best ranger that ever lived? Ok, Chopps. That’s just plain false and makes you sound like an elitist. You may want to tone that back so people will actually listen to you instead of writing you off as you do seem to understand the class.

Chopps.5047:

Ultimately, I believe a player is a fool if they are serious about ranger in dungeons and won’t try new builds. It’s odd to say “no one will ever” because I don’t think like that. Seriously, if you don’t try this build but want to continue kittening and moaning be my guest. You won’t be helping your party and you’ll be at 1500 range at the wrong time and your party will hate you. That’s just how it is, regardless of your idealistic notion of bows.

People are fools if they won’t ever try new builds and are convinced theirs is the best, period, without actually giving it a try. But that goes for you as well, Chopps.

I was stubborn for a long time and refused to play my warrior in dungeons , even though i had her leveled up in full exotic gear. I made that leap, and oh boy i am not looking back . Still love roaming in WvW on mah ranger

Wow, another thread made to defuse the status of the ranger in the game in order to highlight a potential path ANet might take in order to improve the class… only inspires more crying.

I figured the community would have been out of energy by now and would have become discouraged from crying in every ranger related post, but it seems I underestimated the persistence of you guys.

Anywho, to quote something for truth:

Tsohg.1798:

Chopps.5047:

Have any of you guys tried my mighty ranger build? Right? You’re all PvE’ers, right? Maybe you just aren’t playing ranger optimally?

Pvper here. And we’ve discussed this before Chopps, it’s not that we aren’t viable, it’s that everyone is a better choice than us. We’re like the Lone Wolves. We’re only good for soloing. We don’t share, don’t have a niche, and everyone does it better.

Best summary of the class within the metagame right now. Ranger power options need to be brought up, and anything that isn’t a necromancer is being overlooked if its running condition damage because of how strong necromancer’s output is right now.

Dukenikum.3982:

I think this is how they test new updates for ranger… http://imageshack.us/a/img694/4771/tno.gif

And this is 90% of rangers reactions to updates…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF_Ca45JRFs

PLEASE FIX RANGER SOON

Haha this is so good.

Chopps.5047:

Have any of you guys tried my mighty ranger build? Right? You’re all PvE’ers, right? Maybe you just aren’t playing ranger optimally?

Somewhere between Bas’s “ArenaNet finally gave us the diversity we wanted” and your one and only dungeon build, there seems to be a serious disconnect in the story line. Either that or maybe things aren’t as rosy as you and the SOAC team would want us to think?

Pedra.4381:

Chopps.5047:

Have any of you guys tried my mighty ranger build? Right? You’re all PvE’ers, right? Maybe you just aren’t playing ranger optimally?

Somewhere between Bas’s “ArenaNet finally gave us the diversity we wanted” and your one and only dungeon build, there seems to be a serious disconnect in the story line. Either that or maybe things aren’t as rosy as you and the SOAC team would want us to think?

Things aren’t all rosy. They also aren’t all terribad, so don’t jump on me for that. The biggest problem is that things keep getting adjusted for sPvP only. Which is why SOAC sees things as fine. sPvP is the place where rangers shine the most. Outside of that, however, the class needs a lot of work.

SynfulChaot.3169

Things aren’t all rosy. They also aren’t all terribad, so don’t jump on me for that. The biggest problem is that things keep getting adjusted for sPvP only. Which is why SOAC sees things as fine. sPvP is the place where rangers shine the most. Outside of that, however, the class needs a lot of work.

That’s SOAC’s second biggest problem. They’ve tied themselves to ArenaNet’s pursuit of an e-sport presence and in so doing are essentially saying to kitten with the rest of the game. For both them and ANet, that’s where the pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow (at least as they view it).

SynfulChaot.3169:

Sorry. Hate to burst your bubble, but it’s only been in the last year and only in GW2. GW1 rangers have remained highly viable with a large amount of powerful builds. A large number of builds I could provide you were you to ask.

Don’t even go there, I probably had GWAMM on my GW1 ranger before you were born, but that’s not to say that ANet didn’t manage rangers exactly the same as the mess they are dealing out here. In GW1 the main problem was power creep, every thing got better bur ranger stayed the same. The best thing to do with a GW1 ranger was to play non-ranger builds with it. And they never did fix the ‘obstructed’ bug with bow rangers, just like they will never fix the well protested bugs with GW2 rangers.

Sandpit.3467:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Sorry. Hate to burst your bubble, but it’s only been in the last year and only in GW2. GW1 rangers have remained highly viable with a large amount of powerful builds. A large number of builds I could provide you were you to ask.

Don’t even go there, I probably had GWAMM on my GW1 ranger before you were born, but that’s not to say that ANet didn’t manage rangers exactly the same as the mess they are dealing out here. In GW1 the main problem was power creep, every thing got better bur ranger stayed the same. The best thing to do with a GW1 ranger was to play non-ranger builds with it. And they never did fix the ‘obstructed’ bug with bow rangers, just like they will never fix the well protested bugs with GW2 rangers.

Played GW1 since beta good sir. Mained a ranger there as well. Please don’t look down on my statements out of a false sense of superiority and I won’t look down on yours out of respect. Capiche?

Ranger stayed the same as it didn’t need boosts to stay competitive. Yes, most of the good builds were hybrid profession builds. But what class was that not true for? GW1 was build around hybrid builds. And rangers primary attribute Expertise was, IMHO, the most OP attribute in the game. Broke many mechanics allowing rangers to do things that no other class could as well.

Now ranger was not the best secondary class. That I’ll admit. But it was definitely a powerful primary class. Not even close to the same boat as the GW2 ranger.

Now paragons on the other hand …

SynfulChaot.3169:

Played GW1 since beta good sir. Mained a ranger there as well. Please don’t look down on my statements out of a false sense of superiority and I won’t look down on yours out of respect. Capiche?

Deal. I was however responding to your implication that you were superior with all your powerful builds that I wasn’t able to create.

As for the GW1 ranger, the end was a joke with most PvE rangers playing SoS with NO ranger skills on their bar! Expertise was indeed powerful, but was itself the target of heavy nerfs to address that, and don;t forget, ranger skills also had very high energy costs built in from the start as part of the balance to the expertise effect. Then we have spirits, mostly pointless and mostly there for the mobs to use, rangers mostly used them very situationally. Bows too, very poor base damage so the same problems at range persisted. Then there are pets…. nuf said.

Best let GW1 ranger debate to rest though. I still maintain the point that ANet thinks that they are fine, and they never really have been. They just have no clue how to balance (or even design) this class and rangers just become a medium armoured warrior.

Rangers were fine in guild wars 1 competitively. The staple interrupt build could be altered for numerous support, CC, and harassment roles, while being able to split more efficiently than most other classes in the game.

The last thing the game needs is for the game to be balanced around PvE (note: I am NOT saying dungeons, those need balance as they are their own monster). PvE is basically doing the most damage the fastest in the largest possible radius, or to a single target in boss instances. To PvE effectively, all you have to be able to do is throw some traits into random things, then go to sleep on your keyboard.

I’d be the last person to dismiss the rangers problems, but I never want this game balanced around PvE, because the skill floor is so low monkeys at the zoo could figure it out, ESPECIALLY with the amount of good builds provided as resources.

PvP is where the balance needs to happen, and it isn’t as dramatically necessary as most people make it out to be. But really, if you can effectively kill another player, then you can effectively kill an AI with telegraphed attacks and poor movement abilities.

PvP/WvW/Dungeons are where the players have pushed the abilities of their classes to their fullest, and that is where the game should be balanced around.

Sandpit.3467:

As for the GW1 ranger, the end was a joke with most PvE rangers playing SoS with NO ranger skills on their bar! Expertise was indeed powerful, but was itself the target of heavy nerfs to address that, and don;t forget, ranger skills also had very high energy costs built in from the start as part of the balance to the expertise effect. Then we have spirits, mostly pointless and mostly there for the mobs to use, rangers mostly used them very situationally. Bows too, very poor base damage so the same problems at range persisted. Then there are pets…. nuf said.

Eh. A couple of good nearly ranger only builds in a pet beastmaster, in Burning Arrow/Magebane/Cripshot (same build, different elite), and in Splinter/Barrage builds (Yes it has one ritualist skill, but it’s mostly ranger).

Honestly, though, I often ran spirit spammer builds (both SoS and SoGM) or preferrably touch ranger (that is just too fun!), so I know what you mean.

Sandpit.3467:

Best let GW1 ranger debate to rest though.

Sorry.

Sandpit.3467:

I still maintain the point that ANet thinks that they are fine, and they never really have been. They just have no clue how to balance (or even design) this class and rangers just become a medium armoured warrior.

While I don’t agree that they couldn’t balance it in GW1, I wholeheartedly agree that they cannot seem to in GW2. I feel that with the ‘Melee > Ranged’ paradigm they have set upon the game, the purpose of the ranger is heavily muddied. How can you be good as specializing in ranged when the game says that you do less damage with ranged? Catch-22, IMHO.

And I also agree that the ranger is basically just a medium-armoured warrior with a pet. Look at the common ‘powerful’ builds. They all focus on melee. Not that rangers can’t do melee. That’s not what I’m saying (that’s not for you, Sand, but for other people who will try to jump on that statement). But when pretty much all the meta builds avoid ranged when that is a big feature of the class, there is something seriously wrong.

I had to give up my Ranger. Playing GW’s Ranger for so long then playing GW2’s Ranger is like cracking open an egg to find out it’s not only empty but it wasn’t even a real egg.

Dukenikum.3982:

I think this is how they test new updates for ranger… http://imageshack.us/a/img694/4771/tno.gif

And this is 90% of rangers reactions to updates…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF_Ca45JRFs

PLEASE FIX RANGER SOON

Totally Hillarious!

LOL

SynfulChaot.3169:

I feel that with the ‘Melee > Ranged’ paradigm they have set upon the game, the purpose of the ranger is heavily muddied. How can you be good as specializing in ranged when the game says that you do less damage with ranged? Catch-22, IMHO.

I wonder if this might be at the heart of the problem. ANet thinks that range means safe, so should therefore be ineffective. But they added a number of things to discount that already. So many gap closers (pulls, shadow steps, leaps into melee etc.) and in PvE the mobs seem to all agro on the ranger by design.

And no, not balance PvE, every profession can stroll all over the open world PvE, I was referring to PvE dungeons, where rangers are now often not allowed into groups.

Sandpit.3467:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I feel that with the ‘Melee > Ranged’ paradigm they have set upon the game, the purpose of the ranger is heavily muddied. How can you be good as specializing in ranged when the game says that you do less damage with ranged? Catch-22, IMHO.

I wonder if this might be at the heart of the problem. ANet thinks that range means safe, so should therefore be ineffective. But they added a number of things to discount that already. So many gap closers (pulls, shadow steps, leaps into melee etc.) and in PvE the mobs seem to all agro on the ranger by design.

That’s my personal theory.

Sandpit.3467:

And no, not balance PvE, every profession can stroll all over the open world PvE, I was referring to PvE dungeons, where rangers are now often not allowed into groups.

Yeah. I think many forget that typically when we’re discusing PvE we’re discussing dungeon PvE. Open-world PvE is a faceroll on pretty much every class.

Add reflection to the list of problems with the ‘range is inherently safer’ theory. Some skills protect only from ranged attacks, not from melee attacks.

The pet DPS nerf was due to sPvP Whack-A-Mole skill balance , not because the devs have some grand plan to rework ranger mechanics.

The secret plan is this:

Once a player can use a Ranger to successfully beat an experienced and excellently played Thief, Mesmer, Elementalist, and Necro in WvW…… the player will be requisitioned by the UN to take part in “battle simulations” against a growing alien threat.