Guild Wars 2

This is why we can’t have nice things!

What I took from that is “the ranger’s dps is horrible, thief has great dps and a bunch of cool/unique skills to help execute that”

as far as Robert saying “Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief.” I mean let’s be real here if you are in wvw and you can lag for one second then that is all it takes for a d/d thief to down a ranger.

" know that when I play my ranger I can many different things at once – I have a large tool box of sometimes very useful tools"

Wtf? Ranger has some of the worst utility skills in the game, signets are subpar with ridiciously long cooldowns when activated, spirits suck, utility pet skills are a handicap.

If by utility he meant canine and spiders F2 skill …even those have awkward activation mechanics.

Theifs do need more build diversity but also some nerfs in wvwvw. When a theif cloaks and dagger me with heartseeker for 9k dmg and regens to full health in stealth..resetting the kittening fight thats so stupid. And I got 3k defence ……fully ascended no type of counter play against a GOOD theif.

Steal, C&D, backstab is ~1 sec. If you miss the dodge roll and aren’t tanky, that’s 15k to 20k+ damage. Hundred blades is worse, but I can at least see hundred blades. I have to guess when the thief combo is about to be used. Not all of them are so predictable as to use it as soon as they’re in range.

Instead of a thief getting a nerf I would rather have us get a buff instead, but I agree a good thief you can do very little against

A good thief can (and will) reset the fight every time they start to lose … until they kill you or get bored/tired/frustrated with trying to kill you.

While the thief is supposed to be king of picking their fights, this is extremely frustrating for the non-thief.

• You are constantly forced to fight with the player that wants to fight you
• Each “win” gives you nothing in-game (no badge, no loot)

All you can do is run for help if you don’t want to continue fighting them.

Bad thieves are fodder. They are only deadly in large enough groups that pressing 2 2 2 2 2 2 is effective. Which is still stupid since a large group of noob rangers actually have to use more than one skill to catch and kill.

I agree, most of the issues with the ranger can only be seen once you start playing wvw and other non pve areas

I was so happy when Rangers were able to send pets up on walls. It gave ranger’s a unique role in WvW just like Mesmers (portal, mass invis, veil) and Elementalists (swirling winds) have.

It also allowed my pets to not just sit around useless during sieges. I’m hoping we eventually get something to compensate for this loss.

It’s also quite aggravating that a Thief’s shortbow is better at hitting people on walls than my shortbow and longbow.

^ that, then quickness, pretty devastating to my old build. I know people say “learn and adapt… there are many other viable ranger builds” but still, I play the game because I want to have the ability to create my “ideal ranger” not to be pushed away or toward a certain play style.

Aye, Paz. I like being able to perform “special ops” in WvW.

When the game first came out, that consisted of me sneaky around on my Mesmer and taking out enemy siege before we took a position or in defense of one of our positions.

Then they changed it so that I couldn’t get my berserker up to enemy siege, so I couldn’t enjoy my role any more … but I still had portal, mass invis, and veil.

Then I learned that I could get my ranger pet up on the walls to attack enemy siege, so I started running around doing that. I’d get stopped by enemy forces (as I should), but if it was undefended and I could target it, it was going down. Then that was taken away from me. Now my ranger only has “good at choke points” when I use traps, muddy terrain, and/or piercing arrows" and “can command pet while on siege”. But if I’m on siege in a tower/keep, my pet isn’t doing anything worth commanding … just staring out the wall at the yard he needs to tinkle on.

Meanwhile, when I’m on my Mesmer, chokepoints are a great place for glamours, I can portal bomb, I can mass invis / veil, and my illusions really mess with all the low-skilled players that are tab-targeting.

Elementalist is enjoying chokepoints with any of their weapons, protecting siege/walls/etc. with swirling winds, buffing nearby allies just by swapping attunements which they are doing anyways for several other reasons, and even providing decent amounts of heals.

Necro is laying down marks left and right for great AOE and is the strong counter to the current WvW meta of “lots of builds with tons of boons up all the time”.

Warrior is kill shotting people who have a hard time noticing a warrior doing a killshot let alone guessing that they’re the one out of 30 targets that the warrior is aiming at. They’are also placing banners that provide unique bonuses to stats and aren’t destructible (hi, spirits). They are also going immune and providing incredible amounts of CC with their hammer. We can get that same immunity, but it eats up 1-2 utilities and our pet and we don’t have anything that CC’s like the hammer (I’m not saying that we should). Melee warriors are also destroying anyone that has been CC’d near them.

Engineer has 1,500 spammable AOE for zergs … not really sure what else. Sorry, haven’t engi’d much since BWEs.

Guardians are giving out boons, cleanses, healing, and bubbles/walls like candy.

I want a reason for people on my server to say in Teamspeak, “can anyone switch over to their Ranger? We need …” I don’t ever hear this. Elementalists hear it. Mesmers hear it. etc.

As to the OP. I think it’s slanderous to post that about Robert. The title is horrible. He was merely stating his opinion with no such intentions. People are entitled to their opinions as long as they don’t base them on fiction, which he did not do so his is quite valid.

Sebrent.3625:

Steal, C&D, backstab is ~1 sec. If you miss the dodge roll and aren’t tanky, that’s 15k to 20k+ damage. Hundred blades is worse, but I can at least see hundred blades. I have to guess when the thief combo is about to be used. Not all of them are so predictable as to use it as soon as they’re in range.

Wait for the CnD, stunbreak/dodge out, pop heal, get cc ready to greet the thief when he gets out of stealth → profit!

Naphack, I’m aware of how to counter it. my issue is with the guesswork for when they are going to steal. A good thief fights you and pops this combo in the middle of the fight. It’s very hard to see slight dagger movement A from slight dagger movement B. C&D is not an obvious animation since it is simply another swing of the dagger.

I typically wait till I eat the Mug-CnC, then stunbreak/dodge away from him and pop my heal. I do this, because I am too lazy and watching your healthbar is easier then keeping track of every movement the thief does.
Needs a little bit tankier buildup tho :>

See, that is my issue with it. You shouldn’t have to “eat” high damage attacks in a game with dodge rolls and combat that is supposed to be visual (touted as one of the big things during interviews throughout development of the game … because they want you looking at the game/fight, not your interface)

I don’t have to tho. I do it, cause I’m lazy and cba watching the movements of a guy who creeps around me at 900 range waiting for an opening.
If he brings things to melee, he can try this combo all he wants, cause then the steal range is mot important anymore. There is enough ways of dealing with him once he is close up anyway. What bothers me about thieves is not the fact, they can CnD→Backstab, but the instant gapclosers. As I am a lazy guy, I just wait for them to pass and have an answer prepared for once they happen.
Tho there is always the possibility of actively baiting the mug.

Yes, the instant gap closer are dumb. You can see:

• Ranger Swoop
• Warrior Rush/Bull-Charge/Whirling/Leap/etc.
• Elementalist Burning Speed/Ride the Lightning

There isn’t any animation for steal. It just instantly happens. Same for infiltrator’s strike.

I could quite safely run glass cannon on my characters if this wasn’t the case. Instead, whenever I feel like running glass cannon, I just have to accept that active defense is not enough in a game that is supposed to be about active defense … not getting hit.

I agree with Sebrent about op, maybe change title :P at least Robert recognizes our existence. I also enjoy the wvw special ops aspect, being able to have a big impact while solo running. That’s why I enjoyed the beserker ranger build

I couldn’t even hit the bugger since he blinded me and pulled a stun off. I remember thinking to myself “Man, my ranger couldn’t do 19k damage in five seconds. Thief OP!”

The combo isn’t easy to pull off on a moving target and it does require a degree of luck, but I was able to get a Raven to hit a light golem for over 15k with its F2 skill. In fact, if you look at the last hit, if that 6374 non-crit had been a 1.8x pet’s prowess crit, the total damage on that Blinding Slash would have been 17,955.

Care to record a video? Pictures don’t tell us much as you can grab any set and combine them and say that’s what happened in x amount of time.

Also, I can’t help but notice the use of a 2 minute cooldown elite, signet of the hunt, frost spirit, and I assume the 3rd is either signet of the wild or sick’em.

That’s quite a bit you’re investing for getting almost what the thief gets with fewer skills and on lower cooldowns.

That said, I don’t want the Ranger, or any class (including my Mesmer), doing the crazy burst I see in game. My power shatter build tears up even tanky players and then they have enough confusion on them to keep them from popping their heal or other skills without finishing themselves off … assuming they aren’t already dead from multiple 3 +1 illusion shatters

I did notice the “swooping” pun, I enjoyed that

In WvWvW burst damage is superior in every way . The problem with thieves is that they get to choose when and how to fight you , and when they do they demolish you in seconds . It is a design problem of stealth being too available .

Mobility , high damage and escape mechanisms never mix well together if you are expecting good gameplay .Thieves are boring to play and boring to play against .

my 2c

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Ranger toolbox isn’t just utilities, folks, it’s your 1-5. And between LR and QZ, there’s a TON of utility power in just those two alone, leaving a third open for whatever you feel you may need in the fight and to better define your play style. Shortbow is full of utility and also does really good sustained DPS, so I stand by my statement of rangers having an expansive tool box.
As for Ranger DPS not matching thief burst… yeah, that’s pretty obvious – I don’t think I’m rocking some boat by saying that. I accept that trade-off of lacking burst potential for having a better toolbox of things I can do to survive while outputting consistent DPS. I can see the longbow as maybe being a bit spiky, but nowhere near what a D/D can do. Maybe a trap ranger can get a bit bursty if they hit all 3 traps at once on a glass cannon, but Ranger to me isn’t a burst class – it’s a sustain and survive class.

You can’t really avoid a ranger’s sustained damage, but you can mitigate nearly all of a thief’s burst with really fast reaction and smart play.

@Misterdevious
I once got my jaguar to hit a warrior using a rifle for a super awesome crit around 12k on a single attack when all roided up from signet and shout, and getting a lucky crit. There’s potential, but it involves luck I can’t depend on, whereas a D/D thief can depend on his skill.

Also, despite my best efforts, I could not write a post that didn’t come across as defensive lol. I’m still a ranger through and through
I’m more upset that nobody said anything whatsoever about my “swooping” into the thread… I thought that was golden.

Very last fight in that video

Also, I can’t help to laugh that you think QZ is utility

Esp when you add shortbow with it (QZ doesn’t do anything for shortbow)

Also, lets really compare Shortbow thief vs Shortbow Ranger

SB Thief has an AOE on the first attack vs a Shortbow Ranger who has better Single Target damage
SB thief has a massive aoe bleed/damage attack on his second attack vs Shortbow Ranger who has a Cone Poison on his second attack (thief wins on this since Poison is covered by their Poison Field)
SB thief has a no cooldown evade that applies a cripple vs a SB Ranger who has a cooldown evade that gives Swiftness (Thief Wins this one by far)
SB Thief has a Poison Field AOE he can apply with no cooldown, vs a Ranger who has a small Cripple that gives your pet an awful bleed (Again Thief wins on this)
SB Thief as a Teleport+Blind vs SB ranger with a Daze/Stun (Teleport is better, cause it has no cooldown and is way better utility)

Lightning Reflex is comparable to the Withdraw Heal that Thieves get (that’s twice as fast on the cooldown as LR)

So yea…

Burnfall.9573:

I normally read the thief forum and would make comments in our defense….

Wait what? Rangers need defending on the thief forums? Do thieves think we are OP and in need of a good nerf?

I don’t see anything wrong with what Robert posted on the thief forums. However I do have the feeling he mostly plays sPvP, and I would like to read about his experience in wvw as well. I don’t play much sPvP, but when I did my ranger did feel alright in there. Wvw I often feel useless. I tried to get away from 2 mesmers yesterday who started chasing me between briar and bay and cought up around the jumping puzzle. I had sword/great sword, signet of the hunt, warhorn. What was really interesting is that they used some drowning skill from the water when I was on land. It was “interesting” seeing my ranger being pulled “down” on the beach. I cannot express how much I hate mesmers and thieves without my post turning into something a cat fetishist would post.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

[…]but Ranger to me isn’t a burst class – it’s a sustain and survive class.

You can’t really avoid a ranger’s sustained damage, but you can mitigate nearly all of a thief’s burst with really fast reaction and smart play.

Maybe you guys should prioritize LB’s sustained dps then. As it stands, after you’ve blown the 2-5, every second you spend using your 1 a kitten dies.

As much as I like Rob as a dev, I think I would love nothing more than to seek him out repeatedly in WvW on every class I have and rip him apart just to showcase how far that ‘sustained dps’ is getting the class.

First of, a dev can’t keep a blind eye to all other professions just because he likes the rangers. Second, he is right. The thief is in a good place right now, and i think they actually need buffs to their other weapons. It takes skill to actually kill someone on the same skill level as the thief’s.

But if you’re going to stand around and do nothing, or you have a 2 second reaction time, then you really can’t complain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA5XAGn8Ixs

People often compare our shortbow to their shortbow, but i really can’t understand that as our shortbow is by far superior. Their shortbow only serves a mobility purpose really, and to use cluster bomb on groups.

The only really OP thief spec is the P/D one. I can’t understand how they haven’t nerfed it already.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

As for Ranger DPS not matching thief burst… yeah, that’s pretty obvious – I don’t think I’m rocking some boat by saying that. I accept that trade-off of lacking burst potential for having a better toolbox of things I can do to survive while outputting consistent DPS.

Wait what, rangers have better survivability than thieves? Since when?

FrouFrou.4958:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

As for Ranger DPS not matching thief burst… yeah, that’s pretty obvious – I don’t think I’m rocking some boat by saying that. I accept that trade-off of lacking burst potential for having a better toolbox of things I can do to survive while outputting consistent DPS.

Wait what, rangers have better survivability than thieves? Since when?

He must be referring to some hypothetical situation in which a Thief doesn’t have stealth, massive amounts of evasive traits, and utilities and skills designed to CC and/or run away.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Ranger toolbox isn’t just utilities, folks, it’s your 1-5. And between LR and QZ, there’s a TON of utility power in just those two alone, leaving a third open for whatever you feel you may need in the fight and to better define your play style. Shortbow is full of utility and also does really good sustained DPS, so I stand by my statement of rangers having an expansive tool box.
As for Ranger DPS not matching thief burst… yeah, that’s pretty obvious – I don’t think I’m rocking some boat by saying that. I accept that trade-off of lacking burst potential for having a better toolbox of things I can do to survive while outputting consistent DPS. I can see the longbow as maybe being a bit spiky, but nowhere near what a D/D can do. Maybe a trap ranger can get a bit bursty if they hit all 3 traps at once on a glass cannon, but Ranger to me isn’t a burst class – it’s a sustain and survive class.

You can’t really avoid a ranger’s sustained damage, but you can mitigate nearly all of a thief’s burst with really fast reaction and smart play.

@Misterdevious
I once got my jaguar to hit a warrior using a rifle for a super awesome crit around 12k on a single attack when all roided up from signet and shout, and getting a lucky crit. There’s potential, but it involves luck I can’t depend on, whereas a D/D thief can depend on his skill.

Also, despite my best efforts, I could not write a post that didn’t come across as defensive lol. I’m still a ranger through and through :3
I’m more upset that nobody said anything whatsoever about my “swooping” into the thread… I thought that was golden.

What’s the point of any other traitline besides Wilderness Survival and Nature Magic, then? If glass cannon rangers are not meant to exist, why not place restrictions on gear?

Because a ranger in full berserkers is NOT survivable. You can use LR, just like a thief can use his Shadow Step utility to get out of a burst attempt (which is not unique to rangers), but the fact is once you take a single backstab half your health is gone just like the thief’s.

What’s the utility of a shortbow ranger when a shortbow thief can do the same and evade 3-4 times and chain cripple, while his auto bounces among targets and the ranger is restricted to one target?

Rangers have no ranged aoe outside barrage, which is on a large 30 sec cd on a ranged weapons with poor sustained relative to shortbow and little defenses/kiting options. And to top it off using barrage often gets you low on health from a group’s retaliation alone since barrage hits so many times compared to Meteor Storm. Why does my long range shot need to be boyond 700 range to do the damage of a fireball which does that damage at any range AND aoe?

Most importantly, all I see you address is d/d thieves when there are builds like sword thieves and pistol/dagger thieves who still pack considerable damage while maintaining much greater survivability. A pistol/dagger thief, despite being a condition attrition build, with his stealth opener that he can chain thanks to your pet giving him free undodgeable cloak and daggers, hits hard with that opener.

Why do rangers need to be pigeonholed into bunker builds because offensive builds on him are just not viable, when a thief can go d/d glass cannon or pistol/dagger attrition with high survival? Why does my guardian get to go bursty sword or greatsword builds with 7-8k crits and maintain also his bunker sustained damage and support builds? Why is the defining feature of the ranger his lack of build options outside sustained damage survivalist?

@ Robert Hrouda
There’s potential, but it involves luck I can’t depend on, whereas a D/D thief can depend on his skill.
There is definitely some luck involved in pet/spirit focused builds, but is it too much?

@ Sebrent, each of those pics is from a single usage of Blinding Slash, and you can see the Signet of the Wild icon clearly in the pics.

The technique I used went like this if I remember right: Signet of the Hunt, Frost Spirit (With Spiritual Knowledge), Rampage as One (with Bountiful Hunter), Whirling Defense (with extended duration Vulnerability from Sigil), Signet of the Wild… and then the massive Blinding Slash. Not easy to land on a moving target (as I said), but technically possible. In those tests I was actually using steady weapons to do as little damage as possible myself to see how much damage the pet could ultimately do.

I don’t actually enjoy playing burst; I much prefer tankiness and support. But I do enjoy knowing the technical limits of what is possible, however impractical, because that helps me come up with new ideas to try for builds that have the potential to be made practical. And the builds I like I won’t share the full details of. Or post videos of. (Someone might copy me…) I never shared my MTG decks either…

Wow. So not only did you increase your pet’s damage with several utilities and an elite, but you stacked vulnerability on the dummy as well. Now compare that investment to what a thief has to do to get the same damage (or 5k+ more).

The thief wins out.

Wait, what’s this about a thief having to build glass to do big damage?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmiP3eS5E95Ex2jeqTiy9gpGtpaFoJA;TsAA1CnoqxUjoGbNuak1ssYQxECA

@Robert Hrouda

You and I should duel 100 times in a WvW setting, with me switching toons after every fifth duel, and post the results here.

misterdevious.6482:

@ Sebrent, each of those pics is from a single usage of Blinding Slash, and you can see the Signet of the Wild icon clearly in the pics.

The technique I used went like this if I remember right: Signet of the Hunt, Frost Spirit (With Spiritual Knowledge), Rampage as One (with Bountiful Hunter), Whirling Defense (with extended duration Vulnerability from Sigil), Signet of the Wild… and then the massive Blinding Slash. Not easy to land on a moving target (as I said), but technically possible. In those tests I was actually using steady weapons to do as little damage as possible myself to see how much damage the pet could ultimately do.

I don’t actually enjoy playing burst; I much prefer tankiness and support. But I do enjoy knowing the technical limits of what is possible, however impractical, because that helps me come up with new ideas to try for builds that have the potential to be made practical. And the builds I like I won’t share the full details of. Or post videos of. (Someone might copy me…) I never shared my MTG decks either…

Just lol.

Theorycrafting at it finest. This is so far from being of practical use compared to, for example, thieves burst, it really has no place to be posted at all.

You don’t prove anything with this, blowing everything you got with long cooldowns, and using a skill to apply vulnerability that roots you in place?

Yeah, once in a lifetime with major help from your teammates, and or vs the crappiest players ever, will you succeed with anything like that. Don’t. Just… don’t. Don’t even try to compare.

Sebrent.3625:

I want a reason for people on my server to say in Teamspeak, “can anyone switch over to their Ranger? We need …” I don’t ever hear this. Elementalists hear it. Mesmers hear it. etc.

This.

There is never ever a time where the ranger class fills a need.

The common retort to this concern is that the ranger is a hybrid, jack-of-all-trades class that excels at helping a bit here and a bit there. However, as a side effect of how all the classes are designed, all of the classes are jacken-of-trades and pretty much all of them are better at it than rangers. Being a hybrid class that can do a little of everything and apply sustained damage is not the proper of the ranger, every single other class can do this.

Add on to this the fact that the ranger pet mechanic actually discourages the inclusion of rangers from some types of play makes the ranger a terrible choice as a main class.

Part of the problem is the design philosophy that the pet is always there and accounts for a significant percentage of the ranger’s total output (lets face it, DPS and ending fights earlier is for the moment one of the best way to support your group). The problem with that is that this leaves a significant portion of the ranger’s effectiveness in the hands of some pretty terrible AI. The problem with that is that no matter how much development is put into it, the AI will never be good enough for highly skilled play (in PvE, WvW, and sPvP).

Rather than resolving this issue with a wonky control scheme and pre-school AI, the issue should be addressed by giving players 100% control of the the pet’s movement. This is how the majority of MOBA games handle their pet classes for high-skilled play. These pet classes are some of the more difficult to play well and they bring a lot to a team when played by a highly skilled individual. If players wish they could turn their pet’s movement AI on/off (mainly for people who just want to run around the world map). AI movement will never be sufficient for the demands of top tier play.

For people who actually want to use their pet skillfully you need to have a zero cooldown ground-targeted pet position skill (that can be placed on a hot key). This skill could have a 1200/1500 range. If rangers are supposed to be masters at commanding pets, please actually make it so you can command them properly. The rest of the auto attacks can most likely be left as is.

Once the ranger pet problems are addressed with “proper” position control, you may see that the ranger class’ potential will be far more appreciated and there may be some demand for rangers in group play.

Oh Robert.
How you have no clue about your own game.
I could send 10 different thieves i know to you and everyone of them would down you in seconds because they actually can play and know how to abuse mechanics that a ranger could never get.

No matter how much you defend your opinion, ranger is bottom tier when it comes to class balance.
Engies just got a kitten huge buff and we’re still rotting.

Also take a look at gw2lfg.com
Did you ever, in those … 8 months(?) see a post that asks for a ranger?
They are kitten from the beginning and you guys don’t do anything to fix it. There are so many bugs and flaws it hurts to just log on with one.

Well, you want rangers for entangle and muddy terrain. That’s the only good thing they bring to a group to counter stability spam from guardians.

But rangers are not wanted for their ranged damage (eles do this better), melee damage (every other class does this better as the pet is dead in teamfights if you go melee), support (guardians and eles and engineers and necromancers and mesmers do this better), or CC (guardians and engineers and eles do this better).

Rising Dusk.2408:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

[…]but Ranger to me isn’t a burst class – it’s a sustain and survive class.

You can’t really avoid a ranger’s sustained damage, but you can mitigate nearly all of a thief’s burst with really fast reaction and smart play.

Maybe you guys should prioritize LB’s sustained dps then. As it stands, after you’ve blown the 2-5, every second you spend using your 1 a kitten dies.

As much as I like Rob as a dev, I think I would love nothing more than to seek him out repeatedly in WvW on every class I have and rip him apart just to showcase how far that ‘sustained dps’ is getting the class.

Actually, I think LB will need a buff before the #1 causes a kitten to die every second.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

You can’t really avoid a ranger’s sustained damage, but you can mitigate nearly all of a thief’s burst with really fast reaction and smart play.

This sadly is wrong, an elementalist for example can easily avoid our sustained damage. As can a thief, I know on mine if I want to avoid it I can. If you see us a sustained class then that truly makes me sad. Although in that case we need to double or more the ranger base hp and defense to coincide with that imo. Sadly burst is king in the game.

I dont typically have a problem 1v1 against thieves, you’re right to an extent that if we have all our abilities up we can do ok against them.

My main problem with them is in a group fight when 1 or 2 of my abilities are on CD. I just get rocked Steal→CND→BS which leaves me dead if not full health or pretty close if so. I don’t understand how we are more survivable at all…. please enlighten me.

I have played Ranger as my main since the betas. But I just don’t see the “successes” Robert speaks of… high damage numbers from pets, lots of utility, sustained dps….

But I accept that perhaps Robert, as a dev, knows more about this game than I. So Robert, if the Ranger is really as good as you say, show us. Show us your builds, traits, gear, utility choices, weapon types, food buffs, runes, and jewels… and show us what you are doing that makes the Ranger so good. Just record your playtime for us and post it so we can all see how we ‘should’ be playing our Rangers to get the results that you seem to be getting. I’m sure we’d all love to get the most out of our Rangers.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

I have played Ranger as my main since the betas. But I just don’t see the “successes” Robert speaks of… high damage numbers from pets, lots of utility, sustained dps….

But I accept that perhaps Robert, as a dev, knows more about this game than I. So Robert, if the Ranger is really as good as you say, show us. Show us your builds, traits, gear, utility choices, weapon types, food buffs, runes, and jewels… and show us what you are doing that makes the Ranger so good. Just record your playtime for us and post it so we can all see how we ‘should’ be playing our Rangers to get the results that you seem to be getting. I’m sure we’d all love to get the most out of our Rangers.

I would love to see this. Most people give a lot of credit to Hrouda, being a dev and all. But we are at a point of contention in the ranger community where players feel they have hit the ceiling of the class and squeezed out the entirety of success they can experience.

We don’t want to bash Mr. Hrouda for seeing success (that lots of us feel we can’t reach certain aspects of) if the success is legitimate, but there are a lot of nonbelievers or people that feel they have been strung out, so as descriptive as you try to make your posts, a lot of the ranger community feels they have been deceived for too long and these are just words at this point to many people.

We realize you probably don’t have much free time, but a video of some sort that could qualify the success you’re having would be immensely helpful for the ranger community.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

As for Ranger DPS not matching thief burst… yeah, that’s pretty obvious – I don’t think I’m rocking some boat by saying that. I accept that trade-off of lacking burst potential for having a better toolbox of things I can do to survive while outputting consistent DPS.

Sustained DPS is meaningless. People only care about it because they want to find the most efficient way to grind for xp. We’re not playing L2 and that’s not the kind of grinder that Anet made.

PVP is about burst. Always has and always will be because burst cuts through all chances to mitigate damage.

IMO, either some classes are too bursty, or the rest are not designed properly so they can’t even spec themselves into a real GC. The bursty classes should’ve been nerfed instead of QZ.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I never said ranger was better at insert thing here than class insert class here, which people here seem to be under the impression of. I’ve never claimed that ranger was top tier, and have repeatedly been saying rangers need help here on the forum, so I don’t seem to understand where people are getting the impression that I think Ranger is fine.
I also openly admit I’m not the best PvP guy, or WvW guy… but I do tend to hold my own when I go in and play in those areas, and I don’t feel like I’m sankittenging my team by being a ranger. Maybe I just don’t operate at the levels/tiers you all do, but I certainly try in the levels/tiers I am in, and I tend to have moderate success.

I’ll try to get better in those areas and advance before I go speaking about rangers in the future.

Thanks for the clarification Robert.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I never said ranger was better at insert thing here than class insert class here, which people here seem to be under the impression of. I’ve never claimed that ranger was top tier, and have repeatedly been saying rangers need help here on the forum, so I don’t seem to understand where people are getting the impression that I think Ranger is fine.
I also openly admit I’m not the best PvP guy, or WvW guy… but I do tend to hold my own when I go in and play in those areas, and I don’t feel like I’m sankittenging my team by being a ranger. Maybe I just don’t operate at the levels/tiers you all do, but I certainly try in the levels/tiers I am in, and I tend to have moderate success.

I’ll try to get better in those areas and advance before I go speaking about rangers in the future.

I don’t think anyone is telling you to shut up or stop voicing your opinion. People are just confused about your claims and want to see where they are coming from.

The context where you make your claims matter. 1v1 or teamfights, whether your cooldowns are up ( the thief can burst more often than the ranger’s antiburst cooldowns are up, especially signets with hefty 80+ second recharges).

Robert Hrouda.1327

I don’t seem to understand where people are getting the impression that I think Ranger is fine.

People are frustrated, that’s all, and with that comes the tendency to swing left and right at everything and at everyone, justified or not. I’ve done my part when it comes to that as well. It’s not right, and it’s a behaviour that should stop.

The thing is though that the majority, if not all of the issues with this class that was brought up @ release (some even prior to release) are still more or less here today, and while they haven’t been fixed to any real extent, we have seen several nerfs to our class (shortbow – still with no real explanation to that one btw, pet skill timers not resetting when swapping pets, quickness nerf to name a few), and these are things that boggles the mind for many of us.

Also, we don’t want to see things like
“ok guys, now your pets finally works like you have wanted them to work all along, and because of that we feel that we need to boost thieves so we’ve given them the ability to stay and fight in stealth indefinitely and have upped their damage by 25%”.

“I never said ranger was better at insert thing here than class insert class here”

That’s true. In fact, you have openly stated that the Ranger needs improvement (pets and spirits, in particular). But in previous posts, including the interview with Jonathan Sharp and Jon Peters, the claim was made that its not a design problem (though they do admit that the Ranger needs improvement, too), but rather a perception problem (see http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82417-qa-with-jonathan-sharp-and-jon-peters/).

So my intention was to be open and allow devs to change our perceptions. It was never meant to be accusatory. My apologies if my post came across that way.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

…
Ranger to me isn’t a burst class – it’s a sustain and survive class.
…

Serious question: What is it good for (outside of 1vs1 microcosmosholdtheareaforpoints)?

I hope the devs bring some more content where a sustain and survive class will rule.

Rangers aren’t perfect but they are fun to play regardless. Full BM build is fun to watch my cats beat people up because they ignore them until so much bleed is on them it’s already to late then that big crit comes and bam sucka!! haha