Guild Wars 2

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I accept that trade-off of lacking burst potential for having a better toolbox of things I can do to survive while outputting consistent DPS. I can see the longbow as maybe being a bit spiky, but nowhere near what a D/D can do. Maybe a trap ranger can get a bit bursty if they hit all 3 traps at once on a glass cannon, but Ranger to me isn’t a burst class – it’s a sustain and survive class.

You can’t really avoid a ranger’s sustained damage, but you can mitigate nearly all of a thief’s burst with really fast reaction and smart play.

^^ so true

Everyone wants ranger to be a thief or a guardian. Rangers are rangers, and that’s it.

First I just gotta say all this talk about long bow in pvp is garbage. Long bow is completely and utter crap for both PvE and PvP.

For PVP, Shortbow & Sword / Dagger on Ranger is amazing. The amount of crippling / bleeding / poison you get is EXACTLY the type of gameplay Rob is talking about. You outlast your opponent by dictating range and unloading conditions on them. This was the same concept used in GW1. Nobody EVER played glass cannon ranger in GW1 PvP and nobody complained that you couldn’t….

Everyone here shouting burst is all you need in WvW are just regurgitating false info because if a world / team were playing all thiefs and no other classes, they would get rolled, BADLY.

Saying the ranger doesn’t excel at anything is completely false. The Ranger is #1 for dictating range, bleeding, and crippling, and entangled’s immobilization is amazing (AoE infinite # of target immobilization WITH huge bleed damage, ya easily best elite in the game for PvP).

Every encounter needs conditions, survivability, and the ability to outlast. Thats what Rangers do.

I think it really is just a poor public perception of the class because nobody here has really taken the time to see what ranger’s excel at .

Conditions, dictating range, bringing the fight close when possible for sword/dagger combo , and being able to run from fights with signet of the hunt and muddy terain (which btw I’ve saved countless lives doing). On top of that we have a 25% speed buff from Signet of the Hunt.

Yes, Ranger is THIS good. If you don’t think Ranger is good you need a reality check.

I’ll continue playing my ranger in WvW and owning theifs, warriors, and guardians and if you all continue to complain about ranger (which to me really seems like a portrayal of your inability to play the class well) then so be it. Maybe ranger will get a buff

Ysuera Kypheni.5632:

On the last occasion I encountered with a thief (1v1). Literally, all of my skills were on cool down. He went invisible, my pet went useless (as always in WvW). In 4 (!) seconds time I was dead. He was on full health.

I mean.. yeah if all of your skills are on cool down you should’nt expect to win any fight against any other class playing as ANY class. Seems like you’re just mad you died rofl

BackToSchool.7318:

Ysuera Kypheni.5632:

On the last occasion I encountered with a thief (1v1). Literally, all of my skills were on cool down. He went invisible, my pet went useless (as always in WvW). In 4 (!) seconds time I was dead. He was on full health.

I mean.. yeah if all of your skills are on cool down you should’nt expect to win any fight against any other class playing as ANY class. Seems like you’re just mad you died rofl

I’m guessing he meant to say that all his skills were on cooldown because he used them all against the thief; and then the thief went into stealth to reset the fight while the Ranger’s had nothing to use anymore.

BackToSchool.7318:

lol a lot of complaint about ranger in these threads. tbh what i see is bads being bad

Can’t be any worse than people who make claims that the Ranger is fine and then never back them up.

I also suppose the entire GW2 minmax community somehow missed this phantom aspect of the Ranger and they are secretly super duper good instead of being the hilariously bad joke class that new people pick because the pet looks cool.

Substance E.4852:

BackToSchool.7318:

lol a lot of complaint about ranger in these threads. tbh what i see is bads being bad

Can’t be any worse than people who make claims that the Ranger is fine and then never back them up.

I also suppose the entire GW2 minmax community somehow missed this phantom aspect of the Ranger and they are secretly super duper good instead of being the hilariously bad joke class that new people pick because the pet looks cool.

haha cracks me up. i wrote entire guides about pve and pvp builds i use and how awesome they are. but no one really cared instead just more threads about how bad ranger is so i deleted em. tired of trying

i have a lvl 80 ranger btw. ranger is amazing in pvp for conditions / fight control / lasting the fight just as dev said.

not only that its great in pve as the GS has an evade built in to it which is amazing for zerker rangers.

if you’re that bad w/ ranger i can send u my builds and u can try em out and miraculously realize how great ranger is. or you could try getting better

BackToSchool.7318:

Substance E.4852:

BackToSchool.7318:

lol a lot of complaint about ranger in these threads. tbh what i see is bads being bad

Can’t be any worse than people who make claims that the Ranger is fine and then never back them up.

I also suppose the entire GW2 minmax community somehow missed this phantom aspect of the Ranger and they are secretly super duper good instead of being the hilariously bad joke class that new people pick because the pet looks cool.

haha cracks me up. i wrote entire guides about pve and pvp builds i use and how awesome they are. but no one really cared instead just more threads about how bad ranger is so i deleted em. tired of trying

i have a lvl 80 ranger btw. ranger is amazing in pvp for conditions / fight control / lasting the fight just as dev said.

not only that its great in pve as the GS has an evade built in to it which is amazing for zerker rangers.

if you’re that bad w/ ranger i can send u my builds and u can try em out and miraculously realize how great ranger is. or you could try getting better

Zerker Ranger…

I don’t even think anything more needs to be said…

Substance E.4852:

BackToSchool.7318:

Substance E.4852:

BackToSchool.7318:

lol a lot of complaint about ranger in these threads. tbh what i see is bads being bad

Can’t be any worse than people who make claims that the Ranger is fine and then never back them up.

I also suppose the entire GW2 minmax community somehow missed this phantom aspect of the Ranger and they are secretly super duper good instead of being the hilariously bad joke class that new people pick because the pet looks cool.

haha cracks me up. i wrote entire guides about pve and pvp builds i use and how awesome they are. but no one really cared instead just more threads about how bad ranger is so i deleted em. tired of trying

i have a lvl 80 ranger btw. ranger is amazing in pvp for conditions / fight control / lasting the fight just as dev said.

not only that its great in pve as the GS has an evade built in to it which is amazing for zerker rangers.

if you’re that bad w/ ranger i can send u my builds and u can try em out and miraculously realize how great ranger is. or you could try getting better

Zerker Ranger…

I don’t even think anything more needs to be said…

Oh I bet you’re a PvE bow user. You’re right. nothing more does need to be said

I use double bows in both PvE and WvW … Have anything to say ?? huh?

Chokolata.1870:

I use double bows in both PvE and WvW … Have anything to say ?? huh?

Shh, it’ll be a lot funnier when he realizes it on his own.

Chokolata.1870:

I use double bows in both PvE and WvW … Have anything to say ?? huh?

uh yeah bows are garbage for pve. the damage output is awful. aoe damage is pitiful and single target damage has v irtually no place in pve

BackToSchool.7318:

Chokolata.1870:

I use double bows in both PvE and WvW … Have anything to say ?? huh?

uh yeah bows are garbage for pve. the damage output is awful. aoe damage is pitiful and single target damage has v irtually no place in pve

lol man you are really, really bad at math if you think the SB damage is awful (bad compared to other classes maybe).

And then we add in the wonderful trait known as Piercing Arrows, mix in about 40% crit chance or more and a fire sigil and all of a sudden I am hitting everything in 1200 range in front of me and procing flame blasts consistantly.

No aoe indeed.

But I guess it’s so hilariously awful that we were all being deeply ironic in the thread flipping kitten after they nerfed the SB fire rate.

As the guy who started that thread on the Thief forum, I have to say sorry Rober for putting you in this situation.

That said, he’s absolutely right. He mentioned an overpowered Engi combo to compare to Thief, not Ranger and Thief.

He said his tricks to deal with Thief, he never said that Ranger was perfect at it. He mentioned Rangers tricks because it’s the profession he plays the most and of course the other 7 professions have their own ways to deal with him (if the ranger can, imagine how easy can it be for some of the top tier ones). I believe Ranger is the profession with most need of a buff in comming patchs. I think most players know it and Robert never said they didn’t.

In another post on that thread he also said that to deal with thieves he actually made one to see from his side what he can do and counter it, it’s a VERY WISE ADVICE. And it works for many different things you want to counter from different professions. Personally I’ve learned to predict invisible opponents and evade them while standing still just at the right time. I’m not saying all you should get as much Thief experience, but playing one for a bit helps a lot (same as playing any of the other professions).

Robert said a lot of wise things. I quoted him because I know from checking around this forum that he always says the right things and is very participative with the community.

Seriously guys… doubting him and calling him double agent? REALLY?

I WOULD BURN HALF OF TYRIA TO HAVE IN THE THIEF FORUM A DEV POSTING HALF AS OFTEN AS ROBERT HERE AND HALF AS WISE AS HE IS.

So please start apreciating what you have instead of going omgomgomg he double agent, he said thief is as balanced as ranger omgomgomg and learn to read correctly what he’s saying instead of what you want to read the way you want to read it.

I’m completly in favor of Rangers being buffed. I’m really waiting for it because I want to play my alt Ranger but right now he feels really lackluster. But the reaction here was a complete nonsense considering what Robert said and the context he said that.

Robert never said anything that wasn’t pure reality, and he never said that the Ranger was in a perfect situation.

Xsorus.2507:

Also, lets really compare Shortbow thief vs Shortbow Ranger

SB Thief has an AOE on the first attack vs a Shortbow Ranger who has better Single Target damage
SB thief has a massive aoe bleed/damage attack on his second attack vs Shortbow Ranger who has a Cone Poison on his second attack (thief wins on this since Poison is covered by their Poison Field)
SB thief has a no cooldown evade that applies a cripple vs a SB Ranger who has a cooldown evade that gives Swiftness (Thief Wins this one by far)
SB Thief has a Poison Field AOE he can apply with no cooldown, vs a Ranger who has a small Cripple that gives your pet an awful bleed (Again Thief wins on this)
SB Thief as a Teleport+Blind vs SB ranger with a Daze/Stun (Teleport is better, cause it has no cooldown and is way better utility)

You’re a bit wrong in some points here.

Starting for the fact that while the weapon is the same, the same weapon on different professions is something completly different with the same skin. Take Axe as an example and compare it to Warrior or Necromancer (in fact Thief’s Shortbow fairest comparison would be to main hand Axe).

First of all, you use too often the “it’s spammable so it’s better” argument. Let me clarify something here:

Initiative is the Thief mechanic, and at the end is just a different approach to Cooldowns, with Pros and (unlike any other profession mechanic) Cons.

Initiative consists on “shared cooldown” between all weapon skills it has the following Pro:

- As you can keep using the same skill, you can focus on some aspect of the game and invest all your resources on that.

But it has many Cons:

- The Thief is THE ONLY PROFESSION IN THE GAME THAT CAN’T use all his weapon skills at once. There are not enough initiative points to do 2-3-4-5. While we can always use skill focusing on one aspect of the game, the “skill use rate” is inferior to other classes.

- The Thief is THE ONLY PROFESSION IN THE GAME THAT CAN’T benefit from switching to a new weapon for ready to use skills. While a D/D Elementalist will nuke you to death rotating his attunements and will have fresh recharged skills after completing a cycle, a Thief shares the cooldown of all his weapon skills IN BOTH SETS.

- When a skill just recharged for you and you use it, other skills will continue their recharge and they will keep comming over time. When a Thief blows his initiative and uses a skill that just recharged, it interrupts and resets the recharge for all of his skills.

Initiative is good for focusing your game when the situation asks for it, but it has cons and you should consider them before using that “better because spammable” argument

Now aditionally you made some wrong statements:

- First your shortbow has +300 range over us. That’s huge (a Thief can’t consistently attack someone over a WvW wall or from it with any weapon). As I said main hand Axe is a better comparison to Shortbow and it even got a bouncing auto-attack.

- The “massive AoE bleed” that you said… have you ever played Thief? It works as a melee shotgun. It can clean multiple PvE mobs and is useful for that in non dungeon PvE, but the projectile speed is as fast as a player without speed buffs. I often throw them and run to where they’re going to fall just for fun while I’m going from one place to another. If you’re detonating the bomb it’s basically effective at melee range and only against non moving targets, not as a 1200 range projectile.

In fact the beautiful part of this skill is that if you don’t detonate (not multiple bleeds and affecting a smaller area) it, it’s the best combo finisher in the game (and the best ally to Ranger’s long duration Water Field btw). But if you’re comparing damage against players, you can’t compare it with a 1200 range weapon (or with a 900 range as the effective range of it is melee).

Our Shortbow is a completly different weapon than your Shortbow. I’m not saying that yours are better or equal. As I said previously I think Ranger needs many buffs I’m not saying you can compete with Thief, but this is the wrong comparison as they’re for different stuff.

I love my Shortbow and I consider it the best Thief secondary (but not primary) weapon. It’s a great weapon for all the utility it has, but it’s the “worst” weapon to take as your primary option and build for it. This is precisely because Initiative absorbs cooldown from both sets, so generally you dont’ get benefit from switching weapons, so you keep a Shortbow on your second weapon set just for the utility it brings that you might need in different situations.

It’s not comparable to your Shortbow, no matter how UP your Shortbow might be at the moment (though from all the stuff Ranger has, your Shortbow isn’t a priority in the “get a buff urgently” list), the role is completly different.

Substance E.4852:

BackToSchool.7318:

Chokolata.1870:

I use double bows in both PvE and WvW … Have anything to say ?? huh?

uh yeah bows are garbage for pve. the damage output is awful. aoe damage is pitiful and single target damage has v irtually no place in pve

lol man you are really, really bad at math if you think the SB damage is awful (bad compared to other classes maybe).

And then we add in the wonderful trait known as Piercing Arrows, mix in about 40% crit chance or more and a fire sigil and all of a sudden I am hitting everything in 1200 range in front of me and procing flame blasts consistantly.

No aoe indeed.

But I guess it’s so hilariously awful that we were all being deeply ironic in the thread flipping kitten after they nerfed the SB fire rate.

again short bow in pve is awful. try sword or GS and then we’ll chat

Lokheit.7943:

The real story about thief mechanics.

This is the truth, many people dont really understand theif at all. Theif has a totally different mechanic than any one else.

shortbow on thief is a really good weapon, however, it is not even close to what ranger shortbow is about. I really dont think ranger would want a thief shortbow, Especially as many people find shortbow to be one of rangers best weapons.

Now i am far from thinking ranger is perfect, but what Robert said is basically accurate.
Theif is not nearly as broad as ranger, and you guys concentrate on the big burst potential they have, and yet ignore that in a game with active skill use to deal with enemies, having all your burst on 2 or 3 skills, in an obvious combination is a huge weakness.
Here is what it means that ranger have sustained. a high dmg ranger has all of his damage spread out amongst many different attacks, this means you dont defeat the ranger by waiting for his big skill.

ranger is constanly outputing a lot dmg from difference sources, you really cant mitigate too well. you got a pet hounding you, you got the ranger hounding you, even his decent dmg skills are putting conditions on you.
My main problem with this though, is ranger survivability it too directly tied to stats. Rangers survive with toughness, healing and trait selection. So when you actually do go glass cannon, you have very few actual tools to survive.

Substance E.4852:

BackToSchool.7318:

Chokolata.1870:

I use double bows in both PvE and WvW … Have anything to say ?? huh?

uh yeah bows are garbage for pve. the damage output is awful. aoe damage is pitiful and single target damage has v irtually no place in pve

lol man you are really, really bad at math if you think the SB damage is awful (bad compared to other classes maybe).

And then we add in the wonderful trait known as Piercing Arrows, mix in about 40% crit chance or more and a fire sigil and all of a sudden I am hitting everything in 1200 range in front of me and procing flame blasts consistantly.

No aoe indeed.

But I guess it’s so hilariously awful that we were all being deeply ironic in the thread flipping kitten after they nerfed the SB fire rate.

You do realize ANET has said that melee damage will ALWAYS be better than ranged damage due to the risk reward thing right? The more you try to defend the whole “Oh my bow is awesome for damage!” Argument the more you look like an idiot…

Durzlla.6295:

Substance E.4852:

BackToSchool.7318:

Chokolata.1870:

I use double bows in both PvE and WvW … Have anything to say ?? huh?

uh yeah bows are garbage for pve. the damage output is awful. aoe damage is pitiful and single target damage has v irtually no place in pve

lol man you are really, really bad at math if you think the SB damage is awful (bad compared to other classes maybe).

And then we add in the wonderful trait known as Piercing Arrows, mix in about 40% crit chance or more and a fire sigil and all of a sudden I am hitting everything in 1200 range in front of me and procing flame blasts consistantly.

No aoe indeed.

But I guess it’s so hilariously awful that we were all being deeply ironic in the thread flipping kitten after they nerfed the SB fire rate.

You do realize ANET has said that melee damage will ALWAYS be better than ranged damage due to the risk reward thing right? The more you try to defend the whole “Oh my bow is awesome for damage!” Argument the more you look like an idiot…

thats so kittening stupid. Warriors and all melee characters got more than enough gap closers to catch up to any ranger/range profession in less than a second.
No wonder warrios and thiefs are noobstompers with Anet giving them so many gap closers and making them even more powerful

Sumusikoo.1360:

Durzlla.6295:

Substance E.4852:

BackToSchool.7318:

Chokolata.1870:

I use double bows in both PvE and WvW … Have anything to say ?? huh?

uh yeah bows are garbage for pve. the damage output is awful. aoe damage is pitiful and single target damage has v irtually no place in pve

lol man you are really, really bad at math if you think the SB damage is awful (bad compared to other classes maybe).

And then we add in the wonderful trait known as Piercing Arrows, mix in about 40% crit chance or more and a fire sigil and all of a sudden I am hitting everything in 1200 range in front of me and procing flame blasts consistantly.

No aoe indeed.

But I guess it’s so hilariously awful that we were all being deeply ironic in the thread flipping kitten after they nerfed the SB fire rate.

You do realize ANET has said that melee damage will ALWAYS be better than ranged damage due to the risk reward thing right? The more you try to defend the whole “Oh my bow is awesome for damage!” Argument the more you look like an idiot…

thats so kittening stupid. Warriors and all melee characters got more than enough gap closers to catch up to any ranger/range profession in less than a second.
No wonder warrios and thiefs are noobstompers with Anet giving them so many gap closers and making them even more powerful

I know right? It’s not like when a melee ranger closes the gap with hornets sting + monarch leap that they stick to the target like glue due to having 2 leaps+ a cripple in their auto attack chains! Oh wait….

Durzlla.6295:

Sumusikoo.1360:

Durzlla.6295:

Substance E.4852:

BackToSchool.7318:

Chokolata.1870:

I use double bows in both PvE and WvW … Have anything to say ?? huh?

uh yeah bows are garbage for pve. the damage output is awful. aoe damage is pitiful and single target damage has v irtually no place in pve

lol man you are really, really bad at math if you think the SB damage is awful (bad compared to other classes maybe).

And then we add in the wonderful trait known as Piercing Arrows, mix in about 40% crit chance or more and a fire sigil and all of a sudden I am hitting everything in 1200 range in front of me and procing flame blasts consistantly.

No aoe indeed.

But I guess it’s so hilariously awful that we were all being deeply ironic in the thread flipping kitten after they nerfed the SB fire rate.

You do realize ANET has said that melee damage will ALWAYS be better than ranged damage due to the risk reward thing right? The more you try to defend the whole “Oh my bow is awesome for damage!” Argument the more you look like an idiot…

thats so kittening stupid. Warriors and all melee characters got more than enough gap closers to catch up to any ranger/range profession in less than a second.
No wonder warrios and thiefs are noobstompers with Anet giving them so many gap closers and making them even more powerful

I know right? It’s not like when a melee ranger closes the gap with hornets sting + monarch leap that they stick to the target like glue due to having 2 leaps+ a cripple in their auto attack chains! Oh wait….

ya and crippling mud, signet of the hunt, lightning reflex, spider, canines, entangle, and all of the shortbow skills are complete garbage for CC’ing your opponent… oh wait….

Durzlla.6295:

Substance E.4852:

BackToSchool.7318:

Chokolata.1870:

I use double bows in both PvE and WvW … Have anything to say ?? huh?

uh yeah bows are garbage for pve. the damage output is awful. aoe damage is pitiful and single target damage has v irtually no place in pve

lol man you are really, really bad at math if you think the SB damage is awful (bad compared to other classes maybe).

And then we add in the wonderful trait known as Piercing Arrows, mix in about 40% crit chance or more and a fire sigil and all of a sudden I am hitting everything in 1200 range in front of me and procing flame blasts consistantly.

No aoe indeed.

But I guess it’s so hilariously awful that we were all being deeply ironic in the thread flipping kitten after they nerfed the SB fire rate.

You do realize ANET has said that melee damage will ALWAYS be better than ranged damage due to the risk reward thing right? The more you try to defend the whole “Oh my bow is awesome for damage!” Argument the more you look like an idiot…

I never said that ranged is better for damage but the SB is hardly crap damage and fully capable of hitting more than one target and often more than the cleaves from the swords or bounces from the axe.

To Lokheit,

We were always “Hopeful” they; the devs would be in our Defense and in their Consideration for the good of the Ranger class, well until now, that changed
We deserve the right to voice our Frustration and our disbelief of what they’ve done and what they haven’t done with our class.

The Difference between you Lokheit and us the Ranger community is our Devotion, Passion and our Faithfulness to the Ranger class. You have clearly confirm your Diversion to the Thief class because of lackstr, n other word, we know about our class in and out, infact since release, while you don’t.

We had stuck with the Ranger class “through thick and thin” always “hopeful” that the devs would consider us as a “balance” class, even though they would launched series of nerfs".

" WOULD BURN HALF OF TYRIA TO HAVE IN THE THIEF FORUM A DEV POSTING "

Oh Really!!

Doesn’t sound " in favor of the ranger class", I’ll leave that to you calculate the
the difference of many forum the devs post compare to the ranger forum and the thief forum.

I would like to quote you, “I’m completely in favor of Rangers being buffed. I’m really waiting for it because I want to play my alt Ranger but right now he feels really lackluster”.

Our Shortbow is a completly different weapon than your Shortbow. I’m not saying that yours are better or equal".

Obviously as a Devoted thief class, you Defended your class in and outs; with your best knowledge and yet all of sudden you’re in our Defense?

And on top of that, you vigorously launched a full attack against the Devoted ranger community players; criticizing, insulting and correcting their comments and their concerns in the defense to your class; the thief.

But suddenly than again you are, “completely in favor of Rangers..”?

As the saying goes, “Those who are not against us are for us”

Read my posts again, tell me where I’m insulting anyone I showed anger because many posters didn’t apreciate how awesome it is to have a Dev posting so oftein in your profession forum, and critized that, but I didn’t call or insult anyone.

I’m a main Thief, and yeah, I don’t have as much knowledge about Rangers as you, never said anything different than that.

But I want all profession to be equal because I play different professions and I like to enjoy all of them and I enjoy the game when it’s balanced. I’m not the kind of player that only asks for buffs for his main profession and in fact I visit all profession forums even the ones that I currently don’t play to inform myself of the state of the game and be as objetive as possible.

The ranger has a confirmed buff to many things comming, including Spirits, a concept that I love but that currently isn’t viable because they’re like paper. Finally you’re getting some attention and you ignore that part and go hating on probably the most participative Dev on a profession forum just because a comment he made about how he counters another profession.

You know, there are people that aren’t exteme kitten defenders of their own main class, some of us love to play different classes. Currently I’m a veteran Thief and very experienced Guardian I didn’t have time to master other professions yet but the next one is Ranger and I’m gathering all the experience that I can before jumping in.

My 2 posts basically said:

- You shouldn’t go hating on Robert for that comment because he’s a great dev and Ranger and he never said the Ranger was perfed he just shared his experiences and how he counters thieves.

- Ranger’s Shortbow isn’t comparable to Thief Shortbow the same way than Axe isn’t comparable between Ranger, Warrior and Necromancer or your Greatsword to Mesmer’s GS. Same weapon skin, completly different weapons. You simply can’t compare them. Now about professions I aknowledge that Rangers are totally UP, I never said anything different, but that example simply wasn’t good to compare them.

That’s what I said. And yep, I’m 100% in favor of a Ranger buff. I’m really waiting for it and I’ve expressed it many times. Believe it or not, not only main profession Rangers from the “club of Rangers forever that always were there” want your profession to be buffed. I really want because I know the profession really needs it (Necros and Engis would need a buff too in certain aspects of their game, but Ranger needs buffs more urgently).

Btw you should quote full comments instead of the parts that you want so you can critize what you want to read (that’s part of what I said, only taking the parts you want to read and the way you want to read, and you just confirmed it doing that). The “burn half Tyria” comment was about having someone as participative with the communitu as Robert, and believe it or not, other professions don’t have it.

Substance E.4852:

Durzlla.6295:

Substance E.4852:

BackToSchool.7318:

Chokolata.1870:

I use double bows in both PvE and WvW … Have anything to say ?? huh?

uh yeah bows are garbage for pve. the damage output is awful. aoe damage is pitiful and single target damage has v irtually no place in pve

lol man you are really, really bad at math if you think the SB damage is awful (bad compared to other classes maybe).

And then we add in the wonderful trait known as Piercing Arrows, mix in about 40% crit chance or more and a fire sigil and all of a sudden I am hitting everything in 1200 range in front of me and procing flame blasts consistantly.

No aoe indeed.

But I guess it’s so hilariously awful that we were all being deeply ironic in the thread flipping kitten after they nerfed the SB fire rate.

You do realize ANET has said that melee damage will ALWAYS be better than ranged damage due to the risk reward thing right? The more you try to defend the whole “Oh my bow is awesome for damage!” Argument the more you look like an idiot…

I never said that ranged is better for damage but the SB is hardly crap damage and fully capable of hitting more than one target and often more than the cleaves from the swords or bounces from the axe.

I’m not saying SB damage is crap or you can’t hit more targets, I’m saying that if you want damage and to totally wreck people you want a melee build because it does more damage.

Personally I -prefer- ranged on my ranger because we have so many ways to keep the enemy at bay while we Pew pew pew, granted we won’t deal NEARLY as much damage as we could at melee, so if you want to be “competitive” in PvE you’d wanna melee (like on all the profs it seems)

Lokheit.7943:

You’re a bit wrong in some points here.

Starting for the fact that while the weapon is the same, the same weapon on different professions is something completly different with the same skin. Take Axe as an example and compare it to Warrior or Necromancer (in fact Thief’s Shortbow fairest comparison would be to main hand Axe).

First of all, you use too often the “it’s spammable so it’s better” argument. Let me clarify something here:

Initiative is the Thief mechanic, and at the end is just a different approach to Cooldowns, with Pros and (unlike any other profession mechanic) Cons.

Initiative consists on “shared cooldown” between all weapon skills it has the following Pro:

- As you can keep using the same skill, you can focus on some aspect of the game and invest all your resources on that.

But it has many Cons:

- The Thief is THE ONLY PROFESSION IN THE GAME THAT CAN’T use all his weapon skills at once. There are not enough initiative points to do 2-3-4-5. While we can always use skill focusing on one aspect of the game, the “skill use rate” is inferior to other classes.

- The Thief is THE ONLY PROFESSION IN THE GAME THAT CAN’T benefit from switching to a new weapon for ready to use skills. While a D/D Elementalist will nuke you to death rotating his attunements and will have fresh recharged skills after completing a cycle, a Thief shares the cooldown of all his weapon skills IN BOTH SETS.

- When a skill just recharged for you and you use it, other skills will continue their recharge and they will keep comming over time. When a Thief blows his initiative and uses a skill that just recharged, it interrupts and resets the recharge for all of his skills.

Initiative is good for focusing your game when the situation asks for it, but it has cons and you should consider them before using that “better because spammable” argument

Now aditionally you made some wrong statements:

- First your shortbow has +300 range over us. That’s huge (a Thief can’t consistently attack someone over a WvW wall or from it with any weapon). As I said main hand Axe is a better comparison to Shortbow and it even got a bouncing auto-attack.

- The “massive AoE bleed” that you said… have you ever played Thief? It works as a melee shotgun. It can clean multiple PvE mobs and is useful for that in non dungeon PvE, but the projectile speed is as fast as a player without speed buffs. I often throw them and run to where they’re going to fall just for fun while I’m going from one place to another. If you’re detonating the bomb it’s basically effective at melee range and only against non moving targets, not as a 1200 range projectile.

In fact the beautiful part of this skill is that if you don’t detonate (not multiple bleeds and affecting a smaller area) it, it’s the best combo finisher in the game (and the best ally to Ranger’s long duration Water Field btw). But if you’re comparing damage against players, you can’t compare it with a 1200 range weapon (or with a 900 range as the effective range of it is melee).

Our Shortbow is a completly different weapon than your Shortbow. I’m not saying that yours are better or equal. As I said previously I think Ranger needs many buffs I’m not saying you can compete with Thief, but this is the wrong comparison as they’re for different stuff.

I love my Shortbow and I consider it the best Thief secondary (but not primary) weapon. It’s a great weapon for all the utility it has, but it’s the “worst” weapon to take as your primary option and build for it. This is precisely because Initiative absorbs cooldown from both sets, so generally you dont’ get benefit from switching weapons, so you keep a Shortbow on your second weapon set just for the utility it brings that you might need in different situations.

It’s not comparable to your Shortbow, no matter how UP your Shortbow might be at the moment (though from all the stuff Ranger has, your Shortbow isn’t a priority in the “get a buff urgently” list), the role is completly different.

First Initiative isn’t the thief’s only mechanic, did Steal get forgotten somehow. And to say that it is the only mechanic with Cons on the ranger forum is as close to polite provocation as I can think of.

Sure none of the professions are perfect, and with the different modes of play (PvE, WvW, and sPvP/tPvP) we are seeing more and more of the professions shortcomings.

Bran.7425:

First Initiative isn’t the thief’s only mechanic, did Steal get forgotten somehow. And to say that it is the only mechanic with Cons on the ranger forum is as close to polite provocation as I can think of.

Steal is a fancy button that justifies the profession name and can be traited to have some extras. In fact rather than a mechanic thief hs 4 mini mechanics that try to be as good as a single mechanic and really only initiative really counts as something close to a mechanic. All thieves use it for the shadowstep (whis puts ranged thieves in danger btw so many thieves ignore it) and the traits, not for the proper steal.

Despite how buggy your pets are and how some players can even get advantage on them, you can still use all your skills. Thief profession mechanics sacrifices the ability to use every skill and lowers the skill rate use in fact. Buggy pets can and will be fixed, initiative as a concept is a different approach to cooldown with pros an cons in its conception. That’s what I meant.

Well technically a ranger has a con on their pet mechanic, if the pet gets killed a large % of your total damage/support/CC is gone, granted that’s all I can think of being a con and for the most part can be avoided by good play.

The only concern I have with Ranger, (I’ve been playing one since release) is that it forces a specific playstyle that is simply underpowered in some situations. You do not have a choice, if you want optimal DPS you must have a pet in the fray. Thus if the pet is focused you are effectively “disarmed” for about 1/3 of your damage potential.

Which other class can you disarm?

Which other class is forced to change weapons in fight?

Oh that and I think asura rangers should be able to ride their pets.

IMHO bumping 3 Month old threads is always a good idea. There is always up to date information and ongoing discussions going on.

/sarcasm off

Not so fast, there still something that i wanna to discuss.

As for Ranger DPS not matching thief burst… yeah, that’s pretty obvious – I don’t think I’m rocking some boat by saying that. I accept that trade-off of lacking burst potential for having a better toolbox of things I can do to survive while outputting consistent DPS.

Wait, wait, wait. I ever though longbow supposed to be sniper weapon – dealing burst from afar. Maybe, current kit isnt balanced well, but it suits sniper role – slow autoattack with damage depends on range, Rapid Fire for burst, no damage-over-time conditions. I hope you are not going to turn longbow into DPS tool, adding bleeding and nerfing direct damage. It will be even not feel as bow.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Ranger toolbox isn’t just utilities, folks, it’s your 1-5. And between LR and QZ, there’s a TON of utility power in just those two alone, leaving a third open for whatever you feel you may need in the fight and to better define your play style. Shortbow is full of utility and also does really good sustained DPS, so I stand by my statement of rangers having an expansive tool box.
As for Ranger DPS not matching thief burst… yeah, that’s pretty obvious – I don’t think I’m rocking some boat by saying that. I accept that trade-off of lacking burst potential for having a better toolbox of things I can do to survive while outputting consistent DPS. I can see the longbow as maybe being a bit spiky, but nowhere near what a D/D can do. Maybe a trap ranger can get a bit bursty if they hit all 3 traps at once on a glass cannon, but Ranger to me isn’t a burst class – it’s a sustain and survive class.

You can’t really avoid a ranger’s sustained damage, but you can mitigate nearly all of a thief’s burst with really fast reaction and smart play.

@Misterdevious
I once got my jaguar to hit a warrior using a rifle for a super awesome crit around 12k on a single attack when all roided up from signet and shout, and getting a lucky crit. There’s potential, but it involves luck I can’t depend on, whereas a D/D thief can depend on his skill.

Also, despite my best efforts, I could not write a post that didn’t come across as defensive lol. I’m still a ranger through and through
I’m more upset that nobody said anything whatsoever about my “swooping” into the thread… I thought that was golden.

That’s all nice and dandy. However, there are so many other things that need work, these few tidbits do little to make up for the rest of our losses.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Complete-Ranger-class-suggestions/first

^ that isn’t everything, but I’d say it’s roughly 80%

Yah I bumped it. These issues are still alive and concerning, but there was no reason to start a new thread with perfectly good threads like this one floating around. So maybe save the sarcasm.

Long bow is not a sniper weapon. You can just about out heal the DPS from LRS and the damage from RF is only 3-500 per plink. I’m a high power/crit build And range attacks from every other class (except engy) out DPS the ranger. Yes I have one of everything.

To be honest I only use bow in situations where I cant physically get in range for Melee.

Question remains. What other class can be disarmed, loosing 30-45% of his damage the way a ranger can when his pet is killed?

Where did you get the 30-45% figure? Did you test and compute it?

jubskie.3152:

Where did you get the 30-45% figure? Did you test and compute it?

Dojo and Ursan have run figures on it if I recall correctly. It is easily at least a third of your damage, that is highly suceptible to aoe, can’t hit moving targets because its autoattacks self root, and outside the drake that third of your damage doesn’t cleave unlike all other melee classes that are not dagger necro/thief (and thief has the option to cleave via sword, making the necro the only class without cleaving on his melee set).

When i started playing the first choice was ranger.. because rangers ‘range the lands’, well; i was reading up about D&D so it seems like an interesting choice.

It started with a damage crit because i was thinking i might as well be a sniper, but was really weak. After the update whiched buffed pets, why not? I’m not just goingt o use stalker to give me might. Which i ran BM until last month i tried a half condition half crit build focused on bleeding with the short bow and spike trap.

Overall after looking at the traits, how rangers are like, I’m guessing rangers are the survival class, not guardian tank but to just use our environment. Its pretty cool. sword and dagger alongside with lightning reflexes give quite the number of evades Maybe its just for us to learn when to use them instead of spending them all at one go.

I’ve yet understand where our damage come from but our traits do tell us where to go. marksman and signets help keeep our pets alive a little longer, skirmishing maybe is for conditions only with traps with the crit to help the shortbow 1 to bleed easier, survival is just to keep ourselves alive as long as possible so maybe our pets can nom on a leg, I’ve yet used nature so i’m unsure of spirits as walking buffs, BM is just for the pets…

regarding aid wise, i only have problems with thieves.. so i tend to throw traps around me to let me get to recharge while the stealthing bugger tries to hit me. unsure how to lock them in place for that few precious seconds to kill them out of stealth though..

anyway, here’s a bit of my ranger, hope it helps. Ultimately i’m aiming for toughness, crit and condition removal.(i didn’t have enough cash to buy the proper gear so it is weird)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJAVRjAVx1VWSWo2Bg2DNlET2DDZ0RXhRLYVD-jUxAItARBASeFRjVDDZ0hAA-w

Current goal:
Exotic gear – 2x (power, precision, toughness), 1x (power, toughness, vitality), rest is zerker
Knight armour with superior rune f meladru
Hopefully a zerker greatsword so i can deal some damage and the upcoming patches won’t change it too much.

Banal Hem.1635:

Long bow is not a sniper weapon. You can just about out heal the DPS from LRS and the damage from RF is only 3-500 per plink. I’m a high power/crit build And range attacks from every other class (except engy) out DPS the ranger. Yes I have one of everything.

It better be. I take that as the game design omission, needs to be fixed. I’m not saying i know how to balance game better then devs, but… For kitten’s sake, despite other things, it will be at least more fun.

I’d just like ANet to come out and define their intended role for the class. It clearly isn’t as a condition class because it is horrendous at that role when compared to Necros and Engis. It has almost a total lack of AE damage which is odd since every other class i nthe game is so AE centric. I think the Thief is really the only other class with so little AE.

The burst mechanic for the class is the worst of them all too as pets still can’t hit moving targets reliably, they still are too clunky to use effectively, and they’re still a huge detriment to the class in PvE. Not to mention they’re nerfed so often because of sPvP.

There’s just so much wrong with the class and the turnaround time for improvement is almost nonexistent.

Atherakhia.4086:

I’d just like ANet to come out and define their intended role for the class. It clearly isn’t as a condition class because it is horrendous at that role when compared to Necros and Engis. It has almost a total lack of AE damage which is odd since every other class i nthe game is so AE centric. I think the Thief is really the only other class with so little AE.

The burst mechanic for the class is the worst of them all too as pets still can’t hit moving targets reliably, they still are too clunky to use effectively, and they’re still a huge detriment to the class in PvE. Not to mention they’re nerfed so often because of sPvP.

There’s just so much wrong with the class and the turnaround time for improvement is almost nonexistent.

trick for pets, especially if one’s running BM is to use the traits to make the pet run faster. Then with a signet, no worries of pet being too slow and now the pet gets to reliably hit, i’ve seen a cat chasing down someone using another signet for speed and it just keeps on going even when i’m out of range.

Be happy we still have spirits which are very viable in spvp and solo roaming in wvw. Soon even this will be nerfed and you’ll be stuck with a LB but hey!!! we now have 3sec stealth, yay

Spirit isn’t even that strong in WvW because it still kills slow enough to see interference.

The best roaming builds have stealth and teleports, so either phantasm mesmers, prismatic understanding mesmer, or d/p-s/d thieves with shadow arts.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

As for Ranger DPS not matching thief burst… yeah, that’s pretty obvious – I don’t think I’m rocking some boat by saying that. I accept that trade-off of lacking burst potential for having a better toolbox of things I can do to survive while outputting consistent DPS.

You really have to think when you read stuff like this…. like “Didn’t he KNOW 3 months ago that perma stealth would be possible?” …And really, nothing trumps it for raw survival these days… especially when it also removes conditions

Rangers are the designated Hunters, and we’re just baits that can bite back a little.

Arenanet killed our class. Rangers are like little mice among big cats…They nerfed our pet damage ( and don t forget the leash range of pets being nerfed too ) and they still pretend for us to be happy..It’ s crazy we are so far from being competitive..( It ’ s not a coincidence that thieves and mesmers and other classes have fun of us ) The only effective build for ranger was the beastmastery one and they nerfed it. Well done Arenanet. It’ s time to quit or if I change my mind to level up a thief or a mesmer which are really competitive class.

ilr.9675:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

As for Ranger DPS not matching thief burst… yeah, that’s pretty obvious – I don’t think I’m rocking some boat by saying that. I accept that trade-off of lacking burst potential for having a better toolbox of things I can do to survive while outputting consistent DPS.

You really have to think when you read stuff like this…. like “Didn’t he KNOW 3 months ago that perma stealth would be possible?” …And really, nothing trumps it for raw survival these days… especially when it also removes conditions

We are still picking on Robert? Really? He’s a dungeon designer dev, and has nothing to do with thieves, or ranger balance for that matter. He was kind enough to forward our comments to the dev team, but like he said, he doesn’t have a say in the matter.

Banal Hem.1635:

The only concern I have with Ranger, (I’ve been playing one since release) is that it forces a specific playstyle that is simply underpowered in some situations. You do not have a choice, if you want optimal DPS you must have a pet in the fray. Thus if the pet is focused you are effectively “disarmed” for about 1/3 of your damage potential.

Which other class can you disarm?

Which other class is forced to change weapons in fight?

Oh that and I think asura rangers should be able to ride their pets.

This is the Voodoo Magic ranger’s post that resurrected and zombiefied a dead thread. I think we ought to ship Banal Hem off to the school of Necromancy.

sigh so much facepalm in this thread

Chopps.5047. This thread isn’t dead. And you cant answer the question. Why is it that only Rangers can be “disarmed” and loose 30% of their damage with the killing of a forced game mechanic?

Answer that and this thread is dead.

I’m not complaining about damage or lack of spike.

I’m not whining about being beaten by some other class.

I’m talking about a forced game mechanic. Pets and their unusually inability to be the weapon they must have been designed to be.

/facepalm yourself boo boo.

Banal Hem.1635:

Chopps.5047. This thread isn’t dead. And you cant answer the question. Why is it that only Rangers can be “disarmed” and loose 30% of their damage with the killing of a forced game mechanic?

Answer that and this thread is dead.

I’m not complaining about damage or lack of spike.

I’m not whining about being beaten by some other class.

I’m talking about a forced game mechanic. Pets and their unusually inability to be the weapon they must have been designed to be.

/facepalm yourself boo boo.

Please look at Paundros first ranger vid and tell me with a straight face that you want to run around with a BM ranger with masters bond and a jaguar that consistently hits moving targets. Pets aren’t ok, and you need cc for them to land their attacks whether you like it or not. Its a very thin line to walk. If they would hit moving targets all the time they would become invincible flesh torpedos. While rangers would become almost invincible tanks in the right hands. It would result in even more pet damge nerf after just 1 month where everyone would pick up their BM ranger in pvp again.

nagymbear.5280:

Banal Hem.1635:

Chopps.5047. This thread isn’t dead. And you cant answer the question. Why is it that only Rangers can be “disarmed” and loose 30% of their damage with the killing of a forced game mechanic?

Answer that and this thread is dead.

I’m not complaining about damage or lack of spike.

I’m not whining about being beaten by some other class.

I’m talking about a forced game mechanic. Pets and their unusually inability to be the weapon they must have been designed to be.

/facepalm yourself boo boo.

Please look at Paundros first ranger vid and tell me with a straight face that you want to run around with a BM ranger with masters bond and a jaguar that consistently hits moving targets. Pets aren’t ok, and you need cc for them to land their attacks whether you like it or not. Its a very thin line to walk. If they would hit moving targets all the time they would become invincible flesh torpedos. While rangers would become almost invincible tanks in the right hands. It would result in even more pet damge nerf after just 1 month where everyone would pick up their BM ranger in pvp again.

Why is expecting people to attack the pet an unrealistic option in every MMO that has a pet class? And if you want to resolve the whole balance issue between bunker/regen rangers and their pets hitting like a truck, then why not just allow the pets to scale off a player’s gear? If the player has no power, the pet shouldn’t have much either.

Atherakhia.4086:

nagymbear.5280:

Banal Hem.1635:

Chopps.5047. This thread isn’t dead. And you cant answer the question. Why is it that only Rangers can be “disarmed” and loose 30% of their damage with the killing of a forced game mechanic?

Answer that and this thread is dead.

I’m not complaining about damage or lack of spike.

I’m not whining about being beaten by some other class.

I’m talking about a forced game mechanic. Pets and their unusually inability to be the weapon they must have been designed to be.

/facepalm yourself boo boo.

Please look at Paundros first ranger vid and tell me with a straight face that you want to run around with a BM ranger with masters bond and a jaguar that consistently hits moving targets. Pets aren’t ok, and you need cc for them to land their attacks whether you like it or not. Its a very thin line to walk. If they would hit moving targets all the time they would become invincible flesh torpedos. While rangers would become almost invincible tanks in the right hands. It would result in even more pet damge nerf after just 1 month where everyone would pick up their BM ranger in pvp again.

Why is expecting people to attack the pet an unrealistic option in every MMO that has a pet class? And if you want to resolve the whole balance issue between bunker/regen rangers and their pets hitting like a truck, then why not just allow the pets to scale off a player’s gear? If the player has no power, the pet shouldn’t have much either.

that would imbalance things to such a degree that the game would break. Imagine someone running 23k build…

2x 23k first strike… even a full zerker would be invincible, as it could just sit back at 2k range and 1-shot every enemy before they even get into reach…

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

nagymbear.5280:

Banal Hem.1635:

Chopps.5047. This thread isn’t dead. And you cant answer the question. Why is it that only Rangers can be “disarmed” and loose 30% of their damage with the killing of a forced game mechanic?

Answer that and this thread is dead.

I’m not complaining about damage or lack of spike.

I’m not whining about being beaten by some other class.

I’m talking about a forced game mechanic. Pets and their unusually inability to be the weapon they must have been designed to be.

/facepalm yourself boo boo.

Please look at Paundros first ranger vid and tell me with a straight face that you want to run around with a BM ranger with masters bond and a jaguar that consistently hits moving targets. Pets aren’t ok, and you need cc for them to land their attacks whether you like it or not. Its a very thin line to walk. If they would hit moving targets all the time they would become invincible flesh torpedos. While rangers would become almost invincible tanks in the right hands. It would result in even more pet damge nerf after just 1 month where everyone would pick up their BM ranger in pvp again.

Why is expecting people to attack the pet an unrealistic option in every MMO that has a pet class? And if you want to resolve the whole balance issue between bunker/regen rangers and their pets hitting like a truck, then why not just allow the pets to scale off a player’s gear? If the player has no power, the pet shouldn’t have much either.

that would imbalance things to such a degree that the game would break. Imagine someone running 23k build…

2x 23k first strike… even a full zerker would be invincible, as it could just sit back at 2k range and 1-shot every enemy before they even get into reach…

I have no idea what you’re talking about…

He prolly means that if a Jaguar would get its stats from a full zerker ranger, then you could hit your opponent with a 23k maul, and your kitty goes boom as well.

What I meant was that our pets are balanced against players that played the game a bit, while they can be almost useless against experienced players (at least when it comes to damage). I’m not a game designer but I’m not sure there is much scaling between the pets current ability to hit moving targets, and actually hitting while moving. So if they make our pets hit moving targets consistently they will be a homing missile. And while people are wasting cooldowns (be it weapon skills or utilities) trying to kill/kite the pet, the ranger can deal with something else (or them for that matter). That would be too powerful. On the other hand an experienced player can kite your pet all day long. So thats a tough cookie.