Guild Wars 2

Hey all,

I run into a big problem in W3. Using Spring pretty much sets a bulls-eye on that area that enemies use to spam aoe’s. I find myself trying my darndest to constantly move around timing my interaction with the edge of Spring to every 3 seconds, all the while managing my own skill timers and skirting red circles. Players know what that fountain of water is, and use it as a crux for my positioning.

I can’t find any other reliable condition removal. The signet is takes too long to work, and Kormir’s Prayer recharge is too long. Any ideas that would let me keep my mobility?

Easy fix. Use Troll Unguent for your heal and spec 30 into Wilderness Survival for Empathetic Bond. Troll Unguent keeps you mobile and healed and Empathetic Bond is the best condition removal tool in the game. Removes ALL conditions every 10 secs.

So…I have to go 30 deep in a traitline just to remove a few conditions? That seems odd. Besides, doing that basically forces you into a low dps role or a torch/trap ranger. Warriors, for instance, have a heal that removes 2 conditions at the start of the game.

Two concerns:
1) Does it work when your pet is dead?
2) CR’s that work on a fixed interval have poor pvp mechanics. If I get hit with immobilize right after that 10s tick, there is literally nothing I can do.

Honestly I’d go 60 deep in Wilderness Survival if it was possible. That traitline has (for my play sytyle) by far the best tools, and I don’t feel kittened by my dps at all.

To address your concerns:
1) It does not work when your pet is dead. This has never been an issue for me. I use K9’s in WvW and with little management they are very rarely dead. Emp Bond is set it and forget it for me. I always have it traited and never worry at all about conditions. They are simply a non-factor when using it. Give it a try and I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
2) It’s rare you have to wait 10 secs, but yes that is possible. Be ready with other tools for when you get hit by immobilize. To take another sweet trait from the Wilderness Survival line pick up Shared anguish to eat one every 90 secs. Also take Hide in Plain Site for WvW/PvP. When you go invis for 3 secs the attacker loses you as a target and most often times moves on to another target. This can happen every 30 secs and is a must have. Additionally you can use any attacks that incorporate a dodge (varies by weapon) or use your GS block and knock them on their behind. Have lighnting reflexes on your bar for it’s dodge as well, plus that puts your endurance in hyper drive for dodges as soon as you’re free. If I’ve exhausted all that I’m also 30 deep in Marks and have signet of the BM for 6 secs of invulnerability. Using all those tools, immobilize is not going to take you down and likely nothing else is either.

I’m not saying your concerns are not legitimate Obsidian. I’ve run up against the same hurdles, but I’ve adjusted my build and playstyle to the point they are a non-issue.

Warriors need to be in melee range and therefore need much more sustain.

For rangers, they have options of 900+ ranger. Also their melee alternative sword+offhand has many dodge mechanics to it.

I rarely find myself struggling with condition damage because hardly anyone specs condi imo.

For stuns and immobilizes, I pick up LR, though when I’m rooted I’m sort of gg’d since I’m a Longbow ranger.

Jon.1039:

Warriors need to be in melee range and therefore need much more sustain.

For rangers, they have options of 900+ ranger. Also their melee alternative sword+offhand has many dodge mechanics to it.

I rarely find myself struggling with condition damage because hardly anyone specs condi imo.

For stuns and immobilizes, I pick up LR, though when I’m rooted I’m sort of gg’d since I’m a Longbow ranger.

Everyone is in melee range at some point. It’s a lot easier to close on a target than keep your distance in this game.

And…I’m afraid I don’t know what “LR” and “gg’d” is/are. :P

By LR he means Lightning Reflexes and by gg’d he means he’s in trouble (good game’d).

Get good with longbow and greatsword and utilize pet abilities. Know all their tools and when to use them. You’ll be a force to be rekoned with in WvW at range and good enough in mele to do decent damage as well as survive.

I should note that GS MOBILITY is the number one reason to use it in WvW. Not only does it have very usefull other abilities but swoop is an amazing tool in WvW. It gets me out when i need to run and allows me to catch pretty much anyone that I want to. With a little practice it is unbelievably usefull.

Thanks for the clarification darb.

Rangers have lots of utility to stay for with a longbow. Lightning Reflex throws you back and fills your endurance bar. Point-blank shot knocks people back, and the closer they are the farther they knock back. After I’ve blown my Longbow skills and they are still in melee, I typically swap to sword dagger and do the little evasion dance until my longbow resets, then I swap back, point-blank shot and rapid fire.

Also, remember that Rapid fire does not take into account for range, you will do just as much damage in close range as you do 900+. Range dynamics only affect your auto-attack. So you’re not completely kittened when people close in on you.

Also, pets add a lot to your utility. I use an alpine wolf to add chill and a red Moa for fury buffs, never neglect them. Use that F2 key cuz it’s awesome!

Jon.1039:

Thanks for the clarification darb.

Rangers have lots of utility to stay for with a longbow. Lightning Reflex throws you back and fills your endurance bar. Point-blank shot knocks people back, and the closer they are the farther they knock back. After I’ve blown my Longbow skills and they are still in melee, I typically swap to sword dagger and do the little evasion dance until my longbow resets, then I swap back, point-blank shot and rapid fire.

Also, remember that Rapid fire does not take into account for range, you will do just as much damage in close range as you do 900+. Range dynamics only affect your auto-attack. So you’re not completely kittened when people close in on you.

Also, pets add a lot to your utility. I use an alpine wolf to add chill and a red Moa for fury buffs, never neglect them. Use that F2 key cuz it’s awesome!

Just adding onto this, it was tested and using anything other then auto attack and hunters shot (well barrage, but that should be saved for zoning) at max range decreases your damage, where in mid-Melee range rapid fire brings it back up to a little lower then it would be at max.

Btw, if you’re a ranged build don’t forget about muddy terrain/stone spirit, those two things are god sends to trap people!! Stone spirit also has the benefit of granting you prot, and if a Melee kills it (when you have natures vengeance) they get stuck in place for 2 seconds an become your very own pincushion!

darb It’s no surprise thieves target rangers. And they tend to spam blind and immobilize out of stealth to incapacitate me. They can do this very fast, they can usually get 2 or 3 conditions on me before signet of renewel removes even one of them. I can’t knock them back with my longbow if I’m blinded, nor move away from them with my sword/dagger skills if immobilized(granted you still “evade” their attacks…you just don’t move positions). Neither Stability from Rampage(which I use as an escape almost exclusively) nor Lightning Reflexes removes immobilize…which I find insanely odd.

I don’t use Hide in Plain Sight, but I do use the rune that grants stealth at 10% health. It’s saved me all of one time…as usually I have so many conditions on me that last 10% gets eaten before I can move anywhere.

My pets die all the time. I use birds because I use the swiftness buff to catch up to people. Using Horn really limits my melee options. And if I put more points into BM to address this, I mitigate my damage elsewhere. I run a longbow, and need high power and crit to make it viable. More in a bit…

@ Jon (and not too off topic, Obsidian, since can help with immobilize too) – Don’t neglect your regular Wolf in WvW. K9 knock downs and cripples are excellent, but It’s fear is awesome and it’s by far my favorite for there.

*You can send a whole group of attackers running.
*When starting an attack on a selected target pet swap. Your wolf will use it’s knock down very quickly if you’re traited for quickness on swap. Once he knocks them down use his fear and by the time they’re standing up they’ll be feared allowing you to hit quickening zepher and unload rapid fire into their back as they move away (I use Drakehound as my other pet and it’s immobilize will allow you to do similar). This combo gives you quite a head start to any fight.
*Use it when you get immobilized to keep them off you.
*Remember to use your pet abilities if you get downed. Every time I’m downed I use the wolf’s fear. Very funny to watch someone (or several someone’s) start a stomp on you and then run away in fear giving your allies time to show up or give you time to rally. Has saved me many many times.
*If a thief gets on you and goes into stealth. Fear him…..he’ll not like that at all.

I’m with darb on the WS thing. That trait line is full of awesome. However, I seem to use HS a little differently than you are, and I don’t seem to be quite as affected by the drawbacks that you are talking about.

Anyway, as darb mentioned, you can trait heavily into WS for killer passive condition removal. You can also go at least 10 deep in Marksmanship and take the signet cooldown trait so that the removal signet is ready every 48s (plus it has passive cleansing of course). Or, you can go heavy into BM and heal your way through conditions (imo a stun breaker is mandatory if you do this). I think the Nature line also has a trait that cleanses specific conditions on dodge, but I haven’t really used it, so I can’t recommend it.

Jon.1039:

Warriors need to be in melee range and therefore need much more sustain.

For rangers, they have options of 900+ ranger. Also their melee alternative sword+offhand has many dodge mechanics to it.

I rarely find myself struggling with condition damage because hardly anyone specs condi imo.

For stuns and immobilizes, I pick up LR, though when I’m rooted I’m sort of gg’d since I’m a Longbow ranger.

LR – ah ok, well LR doesn’t break immobilize. :P

@ Obsidian. I’ve tried to like birds but they’re just not nearly as survivable in WvW and they don’t offer the knock downs, cripples, fear, etc that K9’s do.

Don’t feel like you have to be holding that silly horn all the time to use it. I just keep my inventory minimized on the side of my screen and when out of combat double tap it, hit 5, then double tap again to get my weapon back. If I need speed in combat I will usually have it from someone else or use Ramp as One (which I too use exclusively). Also I’m traited to get speed every time i wep swap.

If a thief jumps on me I pop my 6 secs invuln. Then I use barage all around me. Then I switch to greatsword and start swinging. Usually by then the thief is running away but if they still want to fight I fear them with the wolf and when they close back in I use the great sword block to interrupt them and knock them on their kitten With longbow/greatsword you can combat them very well.

darb.9231:

@ Obsidian. I’ve tried to like birds but they’re just not nearly as survivable in WvW and they don’t offer the knock downs, cripples, fear, etc that K9’s do.

Don’t feel like you have to be holding that silly horn all the time to use it. I just keep my inventory minimized on the side of my screen and when out of combat double tap it, hit 5, then double tap again to get my weapon back. If I need speed in combat I will usually have it from someone else or use Ramp as One (which I too use exclusively). Also I’m traited to get speed every time i wep swap.

If a thief jumps on me I pop my 6 secs invuln. Then I use barage all around me. Then I switch to greatsword and start swinging. Usually by then the thief is running away but if they still want to fight I fear them with the wolf and when they close back in I use the great sword block to interrupt them and knock them on their kitten With longbow/greatsword you can combat them very well.

Didn’t know you could minimize the inventory, I’ll try that. Yeah, I have the speed buff on weap swap too. Problem is my pet makes me stay in combat longer than I want, so I have to pump a lot into speed to make up for it.

BM signet I will try for thieves. Barrage and Muddy Terrain I center on myself but they don’t seem to slow down much and don’t need to move very far to hit me when I’m immobilized lol. I guess I could go 30 in Marks and WS for BM signet and the cond removal. But that would leave me 10 points for all 3 other traits. It really all boils down to the cond removal. If I had one that I could activate when needed, that let me keep my mobility, it would mitigate a lot of the problems I encounter.

I don’t like specializing in one area, I like being adaptable. I can’t seem to find any way to do that yet as far as traits go. And I don’t mean great in all areas, just decent. That whole jack-of-all-trades thing.

I like to use the birds for 3 reasons: because their invulnerability attack helps with the supply camp boss; because of the swiftness buff upon attacking anything( I like to use it on white’s because it doesn’t trigger the combat speed nerf); and the F2 > Owls have Chill, which is a great cond in it’s own right, and then either blind(ravens) or a very long bleed with a short recharge(eagles/hawks).

When i say “minimize inventory” I mean I make it as small as possible and put it over to the side of my screen. With a little practice you can use your horn extremely easily and quickly out of combat with a couple of clicks. Double click it…hit 5…double click the same spot and you have your weapon back. Literaly takes <1 second to do it. Also in PVE it’s handy to have the window up for not only the horn but also to use the Ash Legion Spy kit. In trouble or need to rez someone? Pop a spy kit and the mobs will leave you alone. I always have a 250 stack of them. 10 sec invis and you can just click on a new one every 10 secs and stay invis forever. Lots of other uses too. In the Fractal where you have to stand on the plate to keep the gate open but the mobs keep spawning…..just get on the plate and pop a spy kit every 10 secs and you can stand on it all day if you want. (sigh….probably an incoming nerf now).

Yes try the signet for thieves. The key is to hit it and then don’t dodge or move (attack just don’t run around) for the whole duration. They’ll exhaust their cooldowns on you as a stationary target and by the time you’re vulnerable they’re running on empty. Swoop, stun, pet swap (for quickness), maul….you get the picture….they’re in trouble.

What we really need is to be able to use about 20 more tait points

You’re right that birds are great. I use bird/dog in pve. I just love the dogs in PvP situations. That’s the beauty of our pets. They give us alot of options to go with our different play styles.

RummyTheMad.7290:

I’m with darb on the WS thing. That trait line is full of awesome. However, I seem to use HS a little differently than you are, and I don’t seem to be quite as affected by the drawbacks that you are talking about.

Anyway, as darb mentioned, you can trait heavily into WS for killer passive condition removal. You can also go at least 10 deep in Marksmanship and take the signet cooldown trait so that the removal signet is ready every 48s (plus it has passive cleansing of course). Or, you can go heavy into BM and heal your way through conditions (imo a stun breaker is mandatory if you do this). I think the Nature line also has a trait that cleanses specific conditions on dodge, but I haven’t really used it, so I can’t recommend it.

I’m interested, how do you use HS differently?

Yeah, going 30 deep in WS will change my build considerably oddly enough. I need Marks and Skirmishing both at 20 for my longbow skills alone. That leaves me nothing for anything else. Same deal with BM. LR or Rampage is great for stun breaker, but like I said, it’s immobilize that gets me and neither of those work on that. And yeah, that cond removal on dodge only removes blindness and poison…pretty lame.

I looked into how many traits affect pets. Out of the 75 traits you have, @30 are specific to pets, and another 5 or so to both of you. That’s like 40-45% of your entire trait line. Makes sense considering that is the same % dmg your pet has been reported to do. So pets kinda have to be given some love in BM to survive ok in pvp. Which leaves my longbow option not an option if I go with your advice and shunt 30 into WS.

It’s like, I have 3 choices with a longbow: 1) low damage & high survivability, 2) medium damage & low survivability, 3) no high damage. So really just 2 choices.

Troll Unguent is really awesome, especially in combination with Empathic Bond (when it’s working). One thing to take into consideration is that your pet must be alive and in range. I’m not 100% sure what the range is, but I do know that you can get outside of that range. Another issue is that you have no control over when the conditions are removed, meaning that a short but painful condition might run it’s full duration before it’s cleaned.

Obsidian.1328:

I can’t find any other reliable condition removal. The signet is takes too long to work, and Kormir’s Prayer recharge is too long. Any ideas that would let me keep my mobility?

You’re doing it wrong if you think Kormir’s recharge is too long. Run Kormir with Lightning Reflex and roll back immediately after you’ve cleared the immoblize and stay behind your team for the refresh. No amount of removal is enough if you don’t fall back.

Aridia.3042:

Obsidian.1328:

I can’t find any other reliable condition removal. The signet is takes too long to work, and Kormir’s Prayer recharge is too long. Any ideas that would let me keep my mobility?

You’re doing it wrong if you think Kormir’s recharge is too long. Run Kormir with Lightning Reflex and roll back immediately after you’ve cleared the immoblize and stay behind your team for the refresh. No amount of removal is enough if you don’t fall back.

Hmm, good point. Although usually this is only a problem for me when I’m by myself. I tend to not run with the zerg unless needed and work on supply capping, yak killing, tower defense, etc. It’s small team/solo work mostly. I will give it a shot though.

Obsidian.1328:

I’m interested, how do you use HS differently?

Yeah, going 30 deep in WS will change my build considerably oddly enough. I need Marks and Skirmishing both at 20 for my longbow skills alone. That leaves me nothing for anything else. Same deal with BM. LR or Rampage is great for stun breaker, but like I said, it’s immobilize that gets me and neither of those work on that. And yeah, that cond removal on dodge only removes blindness and poison…pretty lame.

I looked into how many traits affect pets. Out of the 75 traits you have, @30 are specific to pets, and another 5 or so to both of you. That’s like 40-45% of your entire trait line. Makes sense considering that is the same % dmg your pet has been reported to do. So pets kinda have to be given some love in BM to survive ok in pvp. Which leaves my longbow option not an option if I go with your advice and shunt 30 into WS.

It’s like, I have 3 choices with a longbow: 1) low damage & high survivability, 2) medium damage & low survivability, 3) no high damage. So really just 2 choices.

I don’t really use it as a mid-fight heal or for the condition cleanse unless it’s a 1v1 or 2 situation, or if I’m running from a zerg and need to scrub an additional cc.

In a big-battle WvW type situation I’m usually relying on my stun breaker to scrub conditions or jump me out of range, and then using the GS to get some/more distance. At that point, if I still need it, I’ll use HS. Alternately, I’ll drop it in a spot where they are already raining death so that I can pop a pet swap or QZ for a speed rez. For the most part, I try to rely on toughness, mobility, and endurance to keep me safe, and only use my heal if I really, really have to.

I also prefer to run pretty balanced for the adaptability, so I actually tend to ignore what attributes are being enhanced by my trait choices, and only look at the utility and interplay of the traits. From there, I use equipment to fill the attribute gaps. And honestly, as much as I like WS, I don’t typically go 30 deep. Currently I’m running with 0/25/20/10/15, but I switch it up quite a bit just because I like to experiment a lot. When I do run 30 deep in WS, even if I don’t spend a single point in Marksmanship or Skirmishing, there are several traits that help push your damage output to an adequate level.

Also, don’t forget that spending points in WS enhances your condition damage, so that will help buff your DoT. It’s not the best synergy with a LB since the conditions it provides are better enhanced by condition duration, but you can always add a trap or two to make up for the lost damage.

There is definitely a delicate balance in there, and the array of fairly uninspired utility skills that we have doesn’t make it any easier to find a comfortable spot. However, don’t rely solely on the numbers. Try some builds that you would never think of using otherwise, and see how they play. I was pretty surprised by how potent I could be without dumping all of my resources into damage output. In a game where the last person standing wins, and you are seldom fighting 1v1, there is a lot of power in being resilient.

I personally use Heal as One with the singet. Condition removal can be a bit of a git, so when I know I’m going in a condition heavy spot I bring the brown bear too to try and take the pressure off a bit.

If the healing spring is working as a target for enemy fire, use it to your advantage.
Drop it away from allies and run away. You’ll get the immediate condition removal that you want. If you need to remove other abilities or to grab a replenish boon, just step in it for a few seconds later.

It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s either that or to rely on your other options: Sig of Renewal, trait investment, or brown bear.

I use heal as one combined with a bowl of saffron-scented poultry soup(100% chance to cure condition when using a healing skill)(CD 10sec) for condition removal, It has the same effect as healing spring in WvW for ME because my healing spring gets filled with AOE when i use it.

It’s not much but it works.