Guild Wars 2

What do you guys thing of a build like this with the upcoming April 15 patch (of what we know so far)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQNAV8YjEqUzaHLusQ1agYVQQtHcSTAw9w/dCAA-zkBBIgCy5PFRjtMsIasKZA6jYKYLqOAACwO3ZAAA-w

problem with this is you cant test damage and such before you get the full gear and try yourself so i want opinions. The build i suppose will use the new poison GM train in wilderness survival and obviously the new GM trait in nature magic to remove conditions. Also with the double sigil on 2 handed weapons i think on crit bleed and AOE torment might be good, specially that AOE for bag farming in wvw lol.

• Maybe the poison GM trait can be change for emphatic bond for more condi removal.

What you guys think, might it be viable, maybe with other gear, maybe we should wait until the patch is live and see all changes and stuff. I think most of its use will be wvw since for dungeons i have my zerker gear and i dont think the meta is changing that much

poison gm trait is bad, really bad……….

urdriel.8496:

poison gm trait is bad, really bad……….

yea so i heard lol that is why i keep up the empathetic bond option open

NemesiS.6749:

urdriel.8496:

poison gm trait is bad, really bad……….

yea so i heard lol that is why i keep up the empathetic bond option open

Yep, empathic is better xDD

Poison gm might have been worth speccing for, if it had been -66% healing…

Erro.2784:

Poison gm might have been worth speccing for, if it had been -66% healing…

It will be one of the worst GM traits that we will have in GW2.

I think a 30 0 10 30 0 power build will be pretty solid.

urdriel.8496:

poison gm trait is bad, really bad……….

i will counter your brilliant argument by claiming you are bad.

both completely unproven statements, well maybe not the latter, both completely irrelevant before the patch hits.

Chokolata.1870:

I think a 30 0 10 30 0 power build will be pretty solid.

yea i saw around that someone make a post with a build like that, seem also like it will work. In the end the purpose is to be able and remove conditions in wvw and do good damage so that could also work and honestly seem like a better option.

Prysin.8542:

urdriel.8496:

poison gm trait is bad, really bad……….

i will counter your brilliant argument by claiming you are bad.

both completely unproven statements, well maybe not the latter, both completely irrelevant before the patch hits.

Actually we have something like, MATH that proves his statement to be true… The poison GM trait increases poison damage by 50%. However, poison damage is very little either way so increasing it by a tiny amount, is simply not worth it… In essence, it has the worth of just a little less than a single bleed.

Assuming 0 condition damage:
Without trait: 84dps
With trait: 126dps
Increase = 42dps.
Bleed dps: 42,5dps.

Assuming 2000 Condition damage:
Without trait: 284dps
With trait: 426
Increase = 142
Bleed dps = 142,5.

or even let’s go overboard. Assuming 10k Condition damage:
Without trait: 1084dps
With trait: 1626
Increase = 542
Bleed dps = 542,5

So as you can see, it is ALWAYS exactly 0,5dps behind a single bleed.

This means that the only time this is useful AT ALL to use, if if the mobs you hit will be at full 25stacks at all times anyway, and you know that you will be the one doing the poison damage… Combined with that the only weapon to reliably apply poison with is the shortbow, which just as easily applies bleed, means that you dont even have that going for it either and shortbow keeps it up indeff anyway so even that becomes pointless… While the other GM traits in that line isnt very useful either, you’re still much better of using either of them, or just another lower tier one… Or simply not go that deep into that line… No matter how you twist and turn it, it’s a REALLY bad trait…

I believe the reasoning behind the Poison GM trait is for the pet’s ability to insta-apply poison. I can see it being used in PvP, but probably not beyond that. It is pretty bad for pve, to be honest.

you guys, are either thickskulled idiots or simply being stubborn, i cannot come to a conclusion which it is.

It is not about being better then bleeding. Bleeding is THE best condi, short of maybe 25 stacks of torment on a running target. Either way, IF YOU RUN A CONDI BUILD, YOU ALREADY HAVE MAXED OUT BLEED DAMAGE, MAXED OUT BURN DAMAGE, YET POISON DAMAGE CAN NOW BE MAXED OUT FURTHER, THUS YOU DO MORE CONDI DAMAGE THEN WITHOUT. THIS IS MIN/MAX 101.

Prysin.8542:

CAPS

Safe your breath. You need a hug!

I’m still excited what the patch might bring and will try the new traits.

Don’t forget taking the poison GM trait, you will lose out on EB. Which, is pretty kitten important.

Kain Francois.4328:

I believe the reasoning behind the Poison GM trait is for the pet’s ability to insta-apply poison. I can see it being used in PvP, but probably not beyond that. It is pretty bad for pve, to be honest.

Except as I pointed out, the only weapon where the trait would have ANY benefit, as in the only weapon that can reliably even apply poison at all, can already by itself keep poison up permanently by itself even on bosses making that entirely moot… The only time that part of the effect would be useful at all, would be if you cant apply poison yourself, in which case, you’re not gonna be running a condi build, and if you’re not, it’s still only 40dps for the duration of the poison, which is a short time anyway with only that method to apply…

Prysin.8542:

you guys, are either thickskulled idiots or simply being stubborn, i cannot come to a conclusion which it is.

It is not about being better then bleeding. Bleeding is THE best condi, short of maybe 25 stacks of torment on a running target. Either way, IF YOU RUN A CONDI BUILD, YOU ALREADY HAVE MAXED OUT BLEED DAMAGE, MAXED OUT BURN DAMAGE, YET POISON DAMAGE CAN NOW BE MAXED OUT FURTHER, THUS YOU DO MORE CONDI DAMAGE THEN WITHOUT. THIS IS MIN/MAX 101.

The point wasnt about if it was better than bleed or not… Point is that no matter how you twist it, the only benefit you can get from the trait, is only equal to a single bleed… Bleed is only a good condi exactly because you can stack the intensity… Had poison been able to stack in intensity, sure it would have been a very good trait but it doesnt… Poison is used for the healing reduction, never for the damage because the damage is pathetic to begin with… As I said, you only do more condi damage from this IF you’re keeping up 25 stacks of bleed AND are the only one applying poison… A situation you’re simply NEVER going to be in… And even in that once in a blue moon situation, it’s an extremely minor dps increase compared to basicly ANYTHING else you could take… So your min/maxing 101… Is failed to begin with because you dont realize how extremely limited the situations are where you even CAN use this…

Right, indulge in your negativity then.

Prysin.8542:

Right, indulge in your negativity then.

Reality isnt always full of fluffy bunnies… Sometimes, reality just plainly sucks, and the reality is that the trait sucks… Simple as that…

Fancia.3746:

Prysin.8542:

Right, indulge in your negativity then.

Reality isnt always full of fluffy bunnies… Sometimes, reality just plainly sucks, and the reality is that the trait sucks… Simple as that…

You clearly missed the sarcasm that was dripping from every letter of that post….

Also, you’re sorta wrong, the poison damage increase will ALWAYS be a DPS increase, because 1) your condi build should already be applying the max amount of bleeds it can, therefore saying “just add more bleeding” is pointless. 2) the way condis work is that the condi that’ll deal the most damage gets applied first, IE if you and me applied poison to a target, and MY poison hit harder than your poison, your poison doesn’t tick until mine is no longer able to IE: is cleansed or falls off (very unlikely). 3) just cause in PvE mobs never clear condis doesn’t mean that’s how it is everywhere, and being able to ensure that even if the enemy cleanses they’ll be poisoned 100%, is pretty freaking awesome.

Essentially what you’re saying when you say “burning and bleed deal more damage than poison therefore it’s worthless.” Is like saying “I have 2 traits that boost my damage by 10% each, so taking a trait that boosts my damage by 5% ON TOP OF THE OTHERS isn’t a DPS increase.”

Just because your fictional lala land and pseudo science says you’re right doesn’t mean reality says the same.

To be honest I feel the damage increase to poisons is not really anything to be interested in, given the other traits you could have instead. I think the trait is actually more aimed at builds which may not be using sword/dagger/SB, to allow them to keep high poison uptime from the pet rather than themselves.

But back on point.. interesting build. I am not entirely convienced by it, especially with that armour, but maybe if you took bark skin… Hmm, could work.

I’m lovin’ a few of the new traits. I’ll definitely be playing around with them come patch day, see if I can’t find some weird build. Considering my love for mainhand sword lately I’ll have to find a way to get the off-hand axe to work. I’m looking forward to trying a few things with poison mastery.

Poison Mastery’s getting a lot of flak it seems. But since I hate hurting my own companion I’ve gotta get a bit innovative, 2/0/6/0/6.
- Poison Mastery and Rending attacks constantly apply conditions to your opponent.
- Malicious Training and Expertise Training maximise pets’ conditions’ power.
- Zephyr’s Speed and Mighty Swap synergise with the rapid swapping Poison Mastery asks for.
- Pet choice is flexible, while catsassins are powerful, the carrion devourer’s poison cloud and the Lashtail Devourer’s rending barbs add a lot of synergy. The king of PvE Drake is also sitting on the rending attacks list.

My only problem with Poison Mastery is (as far as I know) that the damage boost only applies to our poison and not our companion’s. Hopefully I’m wrong.

Let’s just take a weaponset. Assume Axe/Dagger, 1200 condition damage, and you have Sun Spirit up for the burning. Now, you’re bleeds are going to do about 102-103 damage per tick (per stack), burning will do 628 damage per tick, and your poison without Poison Mastery is going to be doing 204 damage per tick.

So now, at maximum potential during a single skill rotation, you’re going to have 8 stacks of bleed, poison, and burning up. So that’s 816+204+628 = 1648 damage per second.

now, take Poison Mastery. Poison does 306 damage, which totals out to 1750 damage, which for this particular skill rotation is about a 6% damage increase to the maximum damage range. Obviously on just poison, it’s a 50% damage increase, and on 8 bleeds and a poison, it’s a 10% damage increase.

Also, because we have 100% maintainable poison, our poison over time is going to be the condition with the most damage potential. Compare that to other condition oriented builds, and you see that each “condition class” specializes in a condition (Engineers and Burning, Necros and Bleeding).

Overall, the trait itself isn’t a bad trait. In fact, the worst part about it is its unfortunate position in the Wilderness Survival line. Of course, it would be hard to argue placing it somewhere else, but ultimately, until we see cleansing options that don’t force 30 into a trait line, the amount of builds we have might still see increases, like with the upcoming patch, but those builds ultimately won’t be diverse.

Going through some cookie cutter specs, we have the 30/30/x/x/x full glass, 30/x/30/x/x Empathic Bond variant, 20/25/0/25/0 PvE/Dungeon spec, x/30/30/x/x Trapper Spec, x/x/30/x/30 Beatmaster Spec. Those are your basic cookie cutters. Add the new patches possible specs, and we still see the 2 30 Marksmanship specs with just different traits chosen, and then x/x/30/30/x and on top of the current beastmaster spec, there is a new even more support oriented x/x/x/30/30.

A build that people surprising haven’t mentioned yet is going to be either full melee 0/30/10/30/0 Moment of Clarity with Sword/Axe and Greatsword, or the Axe/Axe Greatsword variant of that. I’ve already been playing around with it in hotjoins for the “lols” and was surprised to find that if you land you’re axe pull you can spike people with it into Maul for a combo that hits like 12k+ damage in full zerkers, if you get your crits.

Just food for though. I know people love their bow builds, but it doesn’t hurt to give the one I’m talking about a shot on the 15th. You might be pleasantly surprised.

jcbroe.4329:

-a very long and nice post-

iv’e been running x/x/x/30/30 for ages now. It is not a “new build” or anything. Iv’e ran it, promoted it, shared it and used it since way before the first WvW leagues, and believe it or not, as a WvW player i used this very build in, wait for it, WvW. Yet it works. As if it was witchcraft!!!!

On a more serious note, the upcoming patch will only make my build better, it already works close to flawlessly, depending on your role (zerg, roaming, havoc) you only shift around 20 trait points or change your pet(s), and you are done.
Yet even when proven by math that my build works, it cannot work, since i “invented” it even before the RRR build, utilizing natures voice, was made popular. This makes me believe, that aside from being a failed hipster, people refuse to listen to me, just because it is me, then spend months crying while tearing their hair out trying to reinvent the wheel.

Kinda interesting thought, albeit, saddening.

Prysin.8542:

jcbroe.4329:

-a very long and nice post-

iv’e been running x/x/x/30/30 for ages now. It is not a “new build” or anything. Iv’e ran it, promoted it, shared it and used it since way before the first WvW leagues, and believe it or not, as a WvW player i used this very build in, wait for it, WvW. Yet it works. As if it was witchcraft!!!!

On a more serious note, the upcoming patch will only make my build better, it already works close to flawlessly, depending on your role (zerg, roaming, havoc) you only shift around 20 trait points or change your pet(s), and you are done.
Yet even when proven by math that my build works, it cannot work, since i “invented” it even before the RRR build, utilizing natures voice, was made popular. This makes me believe, that aside from being a failed hipster, people refuse to listen to me, just because it is me, then spend months crying while tearing their hair out trying to reinvent the wheel.

Kinda interesting thought, albeit, saddening.

It’s just sheeple being sheeple, “It’s not meta therefore it can’t be good!” is the common mentality of the GW2 community, which only hurts the game, and a lot of the players, in the process.

For example, people on the forums still think 4 warriors + a mesmer is the meta way to run PvE, even though it’s been proven you don’t want more than 1 warrior in your group due to it hurting your DPS as a group.

Prysin.8542:

urdriel.8496:

poison gm trait is bad, really bad……….

i will counter your brilliant argument by claiming you are bad.

both completely unproven statements, well maybe not the latter, both completely irrelevant before the patch hits.

A GM TRAIT that only increase the damage of a non stackable dot is bad, you can hit for 100-150 more each 2-3 secs???.

change 50% more posion damage for 50% more BLEED damage and it will be a OP trait, but 50% more posion damage is a joke….

You are really blind, Your only argument is L2P.

urdriel.8496:

Prysin.8542:

urdriel.8496:

poison gm trait is bad, really bad……….

i will counter your brilliant argument by claiming you are bad.

both completely unproven statements, well maybe not the latter, both completely irrelevant before the patch hits.

A GM TRAIT that only increase the damage of a non stackable dot is bad, you can hit for 100-150 more each 2-3 secs???.

change 50% more posion damage for 50% more BLEED damage and it will be a OP trait, but 50% more posion damage is a joke….

You are really blind, Your only argument is L2P.

reading is not your greatest virtue, is it?

To sum up what the thread has proven so far:
Without GM trait – Damage
With GM trait – More damage

What did you lose in the process? Nothing, cuz outside sPvP, empathic bond is useless because conditions are a completely different beast outside of sPvP (which i do not think Terravos realizes since he always tries to counter my arguments about non-sPvP EB with sPvP EB)

I hope this makes it more comprehensible.

Cheers
Lynx

PA-POW PRYSIN STRIKES AGAIN

sure some people will miss the beloved EB trait
but before the new trait is tested and u can see how the new dmg works, it is not useful to argue ia useless trait. its not bad, it just has two traits which are really good in same place.
in wvw i never worked with eb, since begiining i play my QoL build around LB/A/H and can still survive long and kill people
the ranger can easy apply perma poison. but with the new trait its way easier to apply perma poison and choose for example torch instead of dagger or eagle instead of spider.
personally i will have fun with testing the new traits and builds

Prysin.8542:

jcbroe.4329:

-a very long and nice post-

iv’e been running x/x/x/30/30 for ages now. It is not a “new build” or anything. Iv’e ran it, promoted it, shared it and used it since way before the first WvW leagues, and believe it or not, as a WvW player i used this very build in, wait for it, WvW. Yet it works. As if it was witchcraft!!!!

On a more serious note, the upcoming patch will only make my build better, it already works close to flawlessly, depending on your role (zerg, roaming, havoc) you only shift around 20 trait points or change your pet(s), and you are done.
Yet even when proven by math that my build works, it cannot work, since i “invented” it even before the RRR build, utilizing natures voice, was made popular. This makes me believe, that aside from being a failed hipster, people refuse to listen to me, just because it is me, then spend months crying while tearing their hair out trying to reinvent the wheel.

Kinda interesting thought, albeit, saddening.

True.

I was thinking of it more along the lines of both traitlines utilizing the new GM traits, which is why I ended up calling it a new build is all. Survival skills removing conditions and giving you fury for damage output while healing/supporting through reliable pet F2s sounds like a very decent support role option to me, and now that you pointed it out, it’s probably even more so with Nature’s Voice.

funny. prysin act like ranger is the only class applying poison. u dont even consider that some classes can more easily apply perma poison. have fun waiting until your improved poison is in line

Taken directly from the wiki since I don’t think people get it: “The effect from the source with the greatest intensity will be used for calculations for the duration of the effect. If there are two unique sources of Burning, the effect with the greater condition damage value will be used until that source ends, at which point, the intensity from the second source is used for the remaining duration.”

So, your poison will always be the first that does damage as long as it is the strongest poison being applied.

doesnt change the fact that this trait is crap. sacr. defense for dmg equal 1 bleed stack or ignoring other possible dmg increasing src for that is bad.

jcbroe.4329:

A build that people surprising haven’t mentioned yet is going to be either full melee 0/30/10/30/0 Moment of Clarity with Sword/Axe and Greatsword, or the Axe/Axe Greatsword variant of that. I’ve already been playing around with it in hotjoins for the “lols” and was surprised to find that if you land you’re axe pull you can spike people with it into Maul for a combo that hits like 12k+ damage in full zerkers, if you get your crits.

Just food for though. I know people love their bow builds, but it doesn’t hurt to give the one I’m talking about a shot on the 15th. You might be pleasantly surprised.

In addition to that statement, Ive been playing around with combo fields lately. Fire Aura, Frost Aura (10% damage reduction), Weakness field ( Murellow) Area Might (x3 20s)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQNBhYD7kRFqF02VweF4axAx+AgaPoklOvnBq60JzKVsA-TsAA1CtIyRljLHTOycs5MKYVw+DA

Might be a bit hard to pull off if you’re not use to melee set up for Ranger, aura in this build is important (frost) and area might putting you up at 3800 damage easily. As close to GS/Bow Warrior in stats.

hooma.9642:

doesnt change the fact that this trait is crap. sacr. defense for dmg equal 1 bleed stack or ignoring other possible dmg increasing src for that is bad.

No wonder PvP veteran Rangers rarely post in their own forums it really is better to whisper each other in game than to go here arguing about these hating Rangers, because of people like this guy. No point in posting in Ranger forums, these pro players are convinced to their grave that WS new GM is kitten rather all new GM traits are kitten according to Ranger forums.

Move along now…

AEFA.9035:

hooma.9642:

doesnt change the fact that this trait is crap. sacr. defense for dmg equal 1 bleed stack or ignoring other possible dmg increasing src for that is bad.

No wonder PvP veteran Rangers rarely post in their own forums it really is better to whisper each other in game than to go here arguing about these hating Rangers, because of people like this guy. No point in posting in Ranger forums, these pro players are convinced to their grave that WS new GM is kitten rather all new GM traits are kitten according to Ranger forums.

Move along now…

it is kitten.
1. empathic bond
2. bark skin
3. calculation above

dmg equal 1 bleed stack more isnt worth this trait! u are such a pro that u doesnt see the downfall of this trait, yet u insist on blaming other players.

this trait is not a gm trait. esp not in this line.

Survival of the Fittest allows you to drop Empathic Bond which is actually of huge benefit to your damage since you aren’t constantly transferring damage with the potential to kill it and drop DPS, or transferring movement impairing conditions that severely hamper your pets damage output and therefore your builds damage output.

Like, does anybody know the scaling for poison damage besides me? It’s 84 base at level 80 and then another +10 for every 100 condition damage you have. At 1200 condition damage, you do 204 poison damage, and with poison master, that goes up to 306. That’s like the equivalent of adding 1000 condition damage to your poisons damage output.

I already did all the damage calculations previously. There’s really not much else to say that Prysin and others didn’t cover.

NemesiS.6749:

Chokolata.1870:

I think a 30 0 10 30 0 power build will be pretty solid.

yea i saw around that someone make a post with a build like that, seem also like it will work. In the end the purpose is to be able and remove conditions in wvw and do good damage so that could also work and honestly seem like a better option.

Ya I think thats what I am leaning towards for small group WvW

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMUQNBjYDbkRlOWbZxkFuWDErHAqPAoVgTuHoy/AogTVA-zkCBYfAofRmgAiuAg+AO1sIaslRFRjVXDT5KpaYCykCQXlRA-w

2nd LB sigil depends on how the new sigils look.

Doing some testing today, 2 LB shots from max range and I took a Backline Ele down to 50% health and made her squirm.

If I can proc sigil of intelligence prior to combat I’ll use that. that way I can just WH 5 and 3 shot the backline Ele.

Seems like nice build for wvw, OP… but it won’t replace a zerker build for dungeons/pve.

This thread is so far off topic and full on arbitrary opinions stated as facts its insane.

On a side note, Prysin, while I usually agree with you on most things I have to say I find it deeply ironic that you spend so long trying to defend Poison Master and go on about how people never listen to you and are so closed minded (which is true, people here are very closed minded), but you point blank refuse to accept EB at a good trait in WvW.

I’ve been running it as my sole condition clear for over a year in WvW and it works great. I dont think I have ever killed my spider with it, it doesnt ruin my spiders DPS, and I dont lose to condition builds any more often than I do to Direct Damage builds. Just because it doesnt work with your builds / playstyle doesnt mean its useless outside of sPvP. You may wish to reflect on your own close mindedness before waving it around at others.

Edit: Note meaning to start an arguement :P Like I said, I usually agree with you and like having you around on the forums.. just thought it was worth pointing out.

Cufufalating.8479:

This thread is so far off topic and full on arbitrary opinions stated as facts its insane.

On a side note, Prysin, while I usually agree with you on most things I have to say I find it deeply ironic that you spend so long trying to defend Poison Master and go on about how people never listen to you and are so closed minded (which is true, people here are very closed minded), but you point blank refuse to accept EB at a good trait in WvW.

I’ve been running it as my sole condition clear for over a year in WvW and it works great. I dont think I have ever killed my spider with it, it doesnt ruin my spiders DPS, and I dont lose to condition builds any more often than I do to Direct Damage builds. Just because it doesnt work with your builds / playstyle doesnt mean its useless outside of sPvP. You may wish to reflect on your own close mindedness before waving it around at others.

The fact no one has just blew your spider up with minimal effort amazes me…. Those things are made of tissue paper and the only thing that keeps them from dying more than a cat is the fact that they’re ranged…

And the reason EB isn’t a very good trait is a lot of people (I’m assuming you’re one of them) put all their eggs in that one basket and the second you fight someone whose used to fighting good rangers, and is getting advice from said ranger how to kitten on rangers, you’re kittened. Because all it takes is that pet to die and your survivability just tanks because you most likely have Shared Anguish and EB to keep you from getting crushed, both of which vanish when your pet dies which is pretty easy to do for most builds.

EDIT: I’m not saying EB is a worthless trait or that it doesn’t have its uses, I’m just saying it’s a very flawed trait and isn’t nearly as useful as the community seems to think it is. It’s probably MOST useful while using a spider or bear due to the damage being so minimally affected by each of them and the fact they’re able to take it.

Spiders have pretty high HP. Their weakness is low armour, but since their death is only really an issue VS condition oponents that makes really no difference. To kill a spider with conditions before I can swap out again is a pretty challenging task and I cant say its ever been an issue even when people do (I admit very rarely) try it, especially since all the time and big CDs they have have to waste on it is free time for me to just kill them without much difficulty.

I can accept its not the be-all and end-all of traits, and taking it comes with some (very small) risk of your pet dying, and that it somewhat dictates your pet choice (hense why I have spiders over dogs), but to dismiss it as useless is no different to looking at Poison Master and saying its useless.

I think the main point about theory crafting around Survival of the Fittest as you’re condi clear is to explore the options that previously you have to combine with Empathic Bond. In that sense, Survival of the Fittest benefits Marksmanship builds, Moment of Clarity builds, Poison Master/Bark Skin/EB Builds, and BM builds.

Beyond that, you’re building for preference and for what fits best into your build. Bark Skin isn’t always going to be the best choice, and neither is EB. Bark Skin gets more valuable with more vitality, and EB is more valuable to players who are in need of even MORE condi clears. Poison Mastery allows that selection process to be rounded out, and take an offensive options in a line that currently only has defensive GMs. For people that don’t want to kill their pet or run Bark Skin, this is going to be the option that suits them best as it adds damage to their build.

The ONLY trait that we should all be scratching our heads at right now is Strider’s Defense. People are going to make Everything else work, just like they made Nature’s Voice builds work.

Cufufalating.8479:

Spiders have pretty high HP. Their weakness is low armour, but since their death is only really an issue VS condition oponents that makes really no difference. To kill a spider with conditions before I can swap out again is a pretty challenging task and I cant say its ever been an issue even when people do (I admit very rarely) try it, especially since all the time and big CDs they have have to waste on it is free time for me to just kill them without much difficulty.

I can accept its not the be-all and end-all of traits, and taking it comes with some (very small) risk of your pet dying, and that it somewhat dictates your pet choice (hense why I have spiders over dogs), but to dismiss it as useless is no different to looking at Poison Master and saying its useless.

I totally agree, EB isn’t a useless trait, and the MAIN drawback of the trait is when you use Melee pets it can totally kitten their damage and that the trait is nearly useless for BM builds due to it gutting your utility and damage.

@Jcbroe, I can’t agree more with your post, ESPECIALLY about Striders Defense, I mean kitten, people wanna kitten about a garbage trait, there it is!! If people stopped crying about poison mastery not being broken and instead cried about Striders Defense being worthless we might get that thing changed before it goes live

jcbroe.4329:

Let’s just take a weaponset. Assume Axe/Dagger, 1200 condition damage, and you have Sun Spirit up for the burning. Now, you’re bleeds are going to do about 102-103 damage per tick (per stack), burning will do 628 damage per tick, and your poison without Poison Mastery is going to be doing 204 damage per tick.

So now, at maximum potential during a single skill rotation, you’re going to have 8 stacks of bleed, poison, and burning up. So that’s 816+204+628 = 1648 damage per second.

now, take Poison Mastery. Poison does 306 damage, which totals out to 1750 damage, which for this particular skill rotation is about a 6% damage increase to the maximum damage range. Obviously on just poison, it’s a 50% damage increase, and on 8 bleeds and a poison, it’s a 10% damage increase.

One thing I keep hearing people mention is that this new trait is only equal to 1 stack of bleed. So their argument is that it is a worthless trait.

I completely disagree. Here’s why:

• Don’t focus on the damage potential of Poison per say, but rather the passive affects it will cause. Ergo healing.
• Having the ability to be a “Poison Master” will allow us to whittle down our opponents.(Which we already can do easily). I am almost certain you will be able to keep an almost 90% Poison up time on your opponent.
• Remember the Queen’s Jubilee and the Master of gambits NPC? " I’ll try Hamstring. Even crippled, I wont be beaten." Gave you the cripple condition throughout the fight. Well imagine your opponent fighting you with the poison condition 90%+ of the fight..

Healing Signet Warriors will be cake(no need to take spiders).
Other Rangers using Troll Unguent will be a walk in the park.
Mesmers using Signet of Ether will be heavily affected.

Basically all healing on your opponent will be constantly reduced.

So one could argue that there is a “Passive DPS” increase by using this Trait(33% DPS increase?).

u only forget some points

ranger already has plenty of poison sources. the trait only lets the pet apply it also regarding poison uptime, but as far i know anet, the poison will use pet condidmg for calculation.

u also forget condi cleanses on your class examples.

other classes can easily apply perma poison. necro and thief.

i think Survival of the Fittest is a bad trait, why:
1. its engourage players to use survival skills outside of its use
2. for powerbuilds the fury will not be enough for the loss of power or precision/critdmg.
3. even traited the condiremove is to low to keep up with the application

there are 2 possible situations where it could be good (fury+qz or fury at trait keen edge trait) but not for raw dmg builds. for hybrids maybe.

hooma.9642:

but as far i know anet, the poison will use pet condidmg for calculation.
other classes can easily apply perma poison. necro and thief.

Anet already stated during their live stream that the condi damage on the PET attack would be calculated from PLAYER stat. Go check it out if you doubt me.

It is irrelevant who can or cannot apply equal or greater amount of poison. We are the ones who get the trait, not them, our poison will be the strongest of the lot no matter how they build their chars.

Prysin.8542:

hooma.9642:

but as far i know anet, the poison will use pet condidmg for calculation.
other classes can easily apply perma poison. necro and thief.

Anet already stated during their live stream that the condi damage on the PET attack would be calculated from PLAYER stat. Go check it out if you doubt me.

It is irrelevant who can or cannot apply equal or greater amount of poison. We are the ones who get the trait, not them, our poison will be the strongest of the lot no matter how they build their chars.

the power of poison doesnt matter in the context of surpressing healing potential. also thinking in a nutshell and/or only on 1vs1 fights is also somehow fail in my opinion, thats why u should also think about your teammates or enemies.

Additionally if you had a measly 885 condi damage your super poison completely nullifies healing signets heal, and with the pet applying poison + the poison uptime via dagger and sword they will NEVER not be poisoned, they can cleanse as much as they want but no cleanse will make them free of it.

Durzlla.6295:

Additionally if you had a measly 885 condi damage your super poison completely nullifies healing signets heal, and with the pet applying poison + the poison uptime via dagger and sword they will NEVER not be poisoned, they can cleanse as much as they want but no cleanse will make them free of it.

And the new Rampager build is born:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQNAV8YjEq0yaHL2sQ1ago9gTWCAsCGy9w/dCAFsJB-TsAg1CtI0SplTLjWStsaNoYZx2DA

GM: Survival of the fittest. Poison master.

AEFA.9035:

Durzlla.6295:

Additionally if you had a measly 885 condi damage your super poison completely nullifies healing signets heal, and with the pet applying poison + the poison uptime via dagger and sword they will NEVER not be poisoned, they can cleanse as much as they want but no cleanse will make them free of it.

And the new Rampager build is born:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQNAV8YjEq0yaHL2sQ1ago9gTWCAsCGy9w/dCAFsJB-TsAg1CtI0SplTLjWStsaNoYZx2DA

GM: Survival of the fittest. Poison master.

Yea, Pretty much this was my first thought when I saw the traits. Everyone was thinking 10/0/30/30/0 but I was thinking 0/10/30/30/0 and converting my trapper gear (rampage and rapid) into this. Might go OH training and torch instead of dagger, will have enough poison as is but you get the idea.

@ Durzlla and Jcbroe,

I also agree that every one of these traits has a place in the game except for stiders defense. That thing is TRASH. I’m not even sure I would take it if it were an adept trait.

People underestimate this, not ALL ranged attacks are projectiles (EG mes great sword anyone?) This trait will be EXTREMELY useless. What skrimishing needs is more power traits inline with crit and crit damage. that would intrigue a zerker ranger going down this line. Not this crap.

rpfohr.7048:

AEFA.9035:

Durzlla.6295:

Additionally if you had a measly 885 condi damage your super poison completely nullifies healing signets heal, and with the pet applying poison + the poison uptime via dagger and sword they will NEVER not be poisoned, they can cleanse as much as they want but no cleanse will make them free of it.

And the new Rampager build is born:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQNAV8YjEq0yaHL2sQ1ago9gTWCAsCGy9w/dCAFsJB-TsAg1CtI0SplTLjWStsaNoYZx2DA

GM: Survival of the fittest. Poison master.

Yea, Pretty much this was my first thought when I saw the traits. Everyone was thinking 10/0/30/30/0 but I was thinking 0/10/30/30/0 and converting my trapper gear (rampage and rapid) into this. Might go OH training and torch instead of dagger, will have enough poison as is but you get the idea.

@ Durzlla and Jcbroe,

I also agree that every one of these traits has a place in the game except for stiders defense. That thing is TRASH. I’m not even sure I would take it if it were an adept trait.

People underestimate this, not ALL ranged attacks are projectiles (EG mes great sword anyone?) This trait will be EXTREMELY useless. What skrimishing needs is more power traits inline with crit and crit damage. that would intrigue a zerker ranger going down this line. Not this crap.

Couldnt agree more my fellow ranger. See what i posted on cdi it came true right after. Survival utilities being like guardian meditation build but better with 2 condi removal. Beastmaster on pet healing. For skirmishing i told anet one of the following:

1. Punishing strike – when you and your pet interrupt foe you deal # damage.

2. Magebane strike – when you switch weapons in combat your next attack deals daze to foe. Stuns and daze you inflict last longer.

but no… ANet loves RNG