Guild Wars 2

Hello fellow Rangers.

I am preparing to make my ascended armor and need some input from the community before I commit. I have been playing a full glass Longbow/Greatsword Ranger and have done well with my build in PVE/Fractals/Dungeons and WvW. But, lately I have been feeling a bit squishy in higher level fractals and skirmishes in WvW. When it came time to make my ascended armor I was all ready to go with Berserker stats but then I started thinking about celestial. I looked at a build editor and was surprised when I compared my build with celestial and berserker…

Berserker Build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMUQJATRjEVR2BWWWo2Bg1j9CsvmiMtkpwQGB-jQCBYfBKzsIasVNFRjVNDVVLR6aYaXB2gLa2cK1A-e

Celestial Build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMUQJATRjEVR2BWWWo2Bg1j9CsvmiMtkpwQGB-jQCBYfBKRtIasVNFRjVNDVVLR6aYaXB2gLa2cK1A-e

Celestial gives up 182 power and 5% crit chance but I gain 2% crit damage and a nice increase in Toughness, vitality and healing.

Now, am I missing something here? On the surface it seems like I would sacrifice some damage but gain a whole lot of survivability.

Your thoughts?

They are such minor stat differences you won’t even notice.

Celestial is a jack of all trades set, you get a bit of everything, I personally wouldn’t recommend using celestial gear unless you intend on taking advantage of all the stats it gives you, if you -do- use all those stats then it’ll be the best set by far ( most builds don’t though)

Sube Dai.8496:

They are such minor stat differences you won’t even notice.

Are you saying that ASCENDED is such a minor difference I won’t notice? I understand that the difference between exotic and ascended is not that great. I mainly am interested in the difference in performance for my build between berserker vs. celestial. For example, 1400 more HP by going celestial is not minor to me!

With your two builds yes, I don’t think the stat differences are that much.

An extra 100 toughness and 100 healing power is not going to keep you alive that much longer.

Also power > critical damage. So by losing 200 power and gaining only 2% crit damage you are still losing quite a bit of overall damage.

Sube Dai.8496:

With your two builds yes, I don’t think the stat differences are that much.

An extra 100 toughness and 100 healing power is not going to keep you alive that much longer.

Also power > critical damage. So by losing 200 power and gaining only 2% crit damage you are still losing quite a bit of overall damage.

Ah, ok. That makes sense. Thanks for that input. It makes my decision easier.

Sube Dai.8496:

With your two builds yes, I don’t think the stat differences are that much.

An extra 100 toughness and 100 healing power is not going to keep you alive that much longer.

Also power > critical damage. So by losing 200 power and gaining only 2% crit damage you are still losing quite a bit of overall damage.

It really depends on how you play the character. If you’re a min/maxer out to maximize damage with One Build to rule them all, then yeah Celestial isn’t going to work.

If you’re like me and like to switch things up, try different weapon combos, try different skill and pet sets, and more importantly try mixed sets (e.g. sword/horn + axe/torch for both power and condition damage), then Celestial gear is right up your alley.

The 200 power loss represents a bit less than 10% damage reduction. The precision loss is also a decrease in damage. The 100 toughness is a bit more than 4% increased survivability. The extra vit means about 9% more hp. The extra healing depends on the healing skills and regen used. And the extra condition damage can help mitigate some of the lost DPS. Taken as a whole, it may be a worthwhile tradeoff if you’re aiming for a more rounded character.

That said, I did a breakdown of gear stat trade-offs a couple months back (for ascended jewelry and exotic armor). Assuming you’re starting from a specific build (e.g. berserker’s), you are better off switching the chest and legs to celestial first. Then the helm. Then the amulet. Then the shoulders, gloves, and boots. Then the weapon. Then the accessories. And finally the rings. That order (for exotic armor) will give you the most celestial points while giving up the fewest berskers points. For comparison, here’s a build halfway through that progression.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMUQJATRjEVR2BWWWo2Bg1j9CsvmiMtkpwQGB-jACBYfBKRtIasVNFRjVVDQXDT5aR1GcRzmTpGA-e

Compared to your initial (non-celestial) build, it gives up

• 110 power

but gains

• 1% crit chance
• 10% crit damage
• 60 armor
• 840 hp
• 80 condition damage
• 29 healing power

If you run the math for damage output:

(2109 * (1 + .47 * 1.53)) / (2219 * (1 + .46 * 1.42)) = 0.988

So you’re giving up 1.2% DPS from this build over your starting build. I’d say the defensive gains and extra condition damage are well worth it in that case. The HP alone are a 5% gain.

The next item to swap on the list would be the weapon
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMUQJATRjEVR2BWWWo2Bg1j9CsvmiMtkpwQGB-jACBYjBKRtIasVNFRjVVDQXDT5aR1GcRzmTpGA-e

Which would bring your direct damage down to 0.916, or a loss of 8.4% DPS. But the other stats are pretty comparable to your second build (which is 0.883, or a 11.7% DPS loss). 4 less armor, 200 more hp, 56 more condition damage, 35 less healing power

Edit: Dug up the spreadsheet and added the ascended armor stats. The order of preference changes. From first piece of ascended gear you want to switch to celestial, to last:

• shoulders, gloves, boots, by a wide margin
• helm
• amulet
• chest
• legging
• weapon
• accessories
• rings

The halfway point (just above weapon) is still the same though, so the above build comparisons are still valid.

@Solandri,

Thanks for that breakdown. Gives me a lot to think about. This would not be such a big decision if it weren’t for the cost involved!

Ehkipazhi.1869:

@Solandri,

Thanks for that breakdown. Gives me a lot to think about. This would not be such a big decision if it weren’t for the cost involved!

Well look at it this way too, celestial gear is ALWAYS going to be time gated (brilliant idea there Anet) so you may as well just go all the way for it if you choose it, and I’ve been told the difference between zerker ascended and exotic gear is minor so you can always grab that one cheap.

Ehkipazhi.1869:

@Solandri,

Thanks for that breakdown. Gives me a lot to think about. This would not be such a big decision if it weren’t for the cost involved!

Cost and bother is the reason i went down the Celestial route (ascended jewelry, exotic armour, will be upgraded to ascended one day). I’m not that much into min/maxing, so the full celestial set gives me enough of everything to switch around builds and weapons all the time. I just pick whatever food/oil emphasizes best my build of the moment for a bit more oomph but that’s the extent of it.

The only remaining inconvenience is non-stat rune set bonuses, which still involve a fair gold cost if you feel like switching often. So at the moment, i’m sticking with boon duration runes (2 water, 2 monk, 2 traveller) which are always useful.

I’m enjoying the convenience so much that i don’t bother anymore taking my old apothecary set out of the bank when i feel like going beastmaster.

I’ve taken the jack of all trades master of none (Celestial) as well i use a lot of different builds depending on my mood what I’m doing at the time. I was running knight/rabid armor clerk trinkets before ascended weapons so i decided to go Celestial weapons and i i’ve started Celestial armor (jacket so far).

So when I’m done i’ll have celestial ascended everything for every day usage and wvw roaming, and min maxed exotic for special occasions (PVT for zerging, Apoth for BM’ing, cleric for support and Zerker just because)

Go for it dude.

From my experience, the higher level of FoTM (30+) still need some survival stats (Vitality, healing, Toughness). Molten Berserker/Firestorm are good examples (if they also get a buff that hit harder from behind, survival stats are the must). I still remembered that pug with warriors claiming full zerker and ended up downed less than few minutes fighting the bosses. Sure dodging could help avoid damage, but at some point will take some damage anyway.

Because we don’t know what will come in the future patch, stay with a balanced-stat armor set like Celestial is not a bad idea. Anet might introduce later a content/boss required certain amount of survival stat to achieve.

Time and cost are another thing. I’m also a casual player, so one complete set of ascended armor will take me quite sometime to obtain for sure. I plan to get all ascended Celestial armor too (even though I got full set celestial exotic set already, hate u anet). Sure the increased stats are so tiny comparing with exotic set and look like worthless for farming mat and craft, but what I’m concerned are the defensive infusion slots. What if later anet introduces a new infusion upgrade with stat higher than +5, and hard to obtain. I’m pretty sure if this happened, likely most of people would have only one set of ascended armor upgraded with the new infusions.

With above predictions, for me, ascended Celestial is worth to get.

from my experience, higher lvl of FoTM 40+ you dont need..and now?

hi all,

sorry to necro this thread, but I just want to make sure I get the right opinion for crafting a set of ascended armor due to time and cost.

It seems rangers will able to take advantage of most of the stats, and I do a bit of everything in the game (dungeons, living story, WvW, etc). I feel like ascended celestial is good.

My build will always be longbow + X (GS, Sword/xxx etc), but in case I want to explore other options, Celes set will allow me to do so. Do you guys think it’s good idea, since I am not really a min/max kind of player.

Any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Rome.7124:

My build will always be longbow + X (GS, Sword/xxx etc), but in case I want to explore other options, Celes set will allow me to do so. Do you guys think it’s good idea, since I am not really a min/max kind of player.

One year later, i’m still using celestial armour, so yeah, if you can live without the minmax, it’ll work for everything. And with laurels, guild comms and fractal runs, you can quickly build up a collection of account-bound ascended amulets/earrings/rings to switch around and tune your stats.

The only thing to consider is whether you intend to get into high level fractals. This is the only real big bonus of ascended: you can slot additional agony resistance on it. If you don’t really care and just want it as the best-in-slot goal, then go ahead. If you do intend to run high level fractals though, min-maxing is probably a good idea, so you may want to find out which is your optimal stats set for dungeons and craft that one as ascended, and run exotic celestial for everything else.

@cafard, could you share your build that you use with celestial armour?

If you’re wanting to make a Celestial Ranger build (rather than just using Celestial armor for the one set fits all appeal) here’s something you might want to keep in mind

Most of the Celestial builds you see that get a lot of play (either PvE or their dreaded sPvP counter parts) can do three things rather well.

1. lots of regen/heal abilites, or a near-constant healing tick (Warrior trait that makes shouts heals + signet heal, Ele build that applies regen when they do almost anything + signet heal, Engineer’s Backpack Regerator trait and water fields from Healing turret)
2. good condi damage, usually bleeds and burning, like Warrior sword(bleed) and longbow(burning) Ele Fire and Earth attunements, and Engi nade and bomb kits.
3. Good Burst and/or self might stacking. All three professions have a fire field and a several blast finishers, plus Warrior’s have Final Thrust with their sword and Engineer their Rifle + Took Kit’s Pry Bar skill.

Now, you are probably thinking, “but, a Ranger can do all those things!” and you’re more or less right; good self healing/regen with Signet of Wild and Healing Spring/Troll Unguent, a great condi weapon with the shortbow, and great burst with Longbow and GS 2 (though, not quite as good with might stacking, as there is only one blast finisher with warhorn. Then again, the Celest Engi meta most people hate stacks might with sigils, not fire fields, if at all)

…but here’s the thing: Try coming up with a good build that does all three at the same time.

I won’t say that it’s impossible, but I suspect that this “Jack of All trades” build will likely fall prey to the dreaded “Master of None.” Sure, you do have self heals, condi damage, and burst, but you won’t be doing enough of any that you’d actually feel better about how you’re character is preforming compared to a more focused build.

That being said, if you just want something you can have on all the time and be pretty good for whatever build you might run, rather that try to do the elusive “It does Everything!” build, Ranger is on the short list of those that can run Celestial and make it work.

cafard.8953:

Rome.7124:

My build will always be longbow + X (GS, Sword/xxx etc), but in case I want to explore other options, Celes set will allow me to do so. Do you guys think it’s good idea, since I am not really a min/max kind of player.

One year later, i’m still using celestial armour, so yeah, if you can live without the minmax, it’ll work for everything. And with laurels, guild comms and fractal runs, you can quickly build up a collection of account-bound ascended amulets/earrings/rings to switch around and tune your stats.

The only thing to consider is whether you intend to get into high level fractals. This is the only real big bonus of ascended: you can slot additional agony resistance on it. If you don’t really care and just want it as the best-in-slot goal, then go ahead. If you do intend to run high level fractals though, min-maxing is probably a good idea, so you may want to find out which is your optimal stats set for dungeons and craft that one as ascended, and run exotic celestial for everything else.

Actually, Zerk min-max for even high level fractals is a relatively recent thing; that used to be the only place where tankier stats and support builds were (almost) what was asked for from people obsessed with the meta, and people were pretty much never turned down for running those things. I’m not exactly sure what changed, but the shift did start showing up right around the time of the Fractured release, and especially later on when they made the Dredge fractal a heck of a lot easier.

There is no reason to be running celestial on a LB/GS build unless you’re using traps and those stealth runes. I’d use berserker as your base and just mix in some things like cavaliers and zealots. The condi damage is 100% wasted since you literally cause 0 damaging conditions. That’s a lot of wasted stats.

That’s for WvW, for PvE just learn the fights better and use zerkers. Maybe have some exotic tankier gear for places you really struggle like the dredge or whatever. It’s been like a year or more since I’ve run fractals so I’m not up to date on it all.

Edit: I do see you’re running sharpened edge but it’s just not worth it to give up that immense amount of stats for a stray bleed or two.

+1 Fluffball

Celestial builds can be great on Rangers (talking WvW here, I have no idea about PvE), but if you’re just going to run a power build in Celestial armour it’s wasted. Youd be better off in Knights / Cavelier if you want a tanky version of a Berserker build.

Sharpenned Edges wont make up for that. It’s an, at best, 3 second bleed which you will proc every 3 attacks. To put that into perspective, that means that every 100 condition damage you get will add 15 damage to your build once every 3 attacks. It’s very VERY little. Adding that 100 stat to power would have much more effect.

dormidor.7045:

@cafard, could you share your build that you use with celestial armour?

Well, it’s pretty much every build short of stealth trapping as i’ve got a dire set for that (my only min-max set, since it required a specific rune anyway). At the moment, i mostly run along the zerg with 60620 (piercing arrows, eagle eye, martial mastery, empathic bond, power for vitality) with HS, SoS, SoR, LR and Entangle slotted, River Drake/Polar Bear, and switching out SoR for Sic’Em if roaming.

As a poster posted above, you very rarely use all the stats at the same time (not much use for condi damage and healing power in my current build for example), so it is pretty much inferior to a set with only the stats you need. But if you’re lazy – and i am – it allows to swap build on the fly without carrying 3 or 4 sets of armour. And having a little of everything means little comforts like on-crit sigils still work decently in a condi build, so again, for lazy types, less many weapons and sigils to have laying around. My main grievance is runes, i really wish we could hotswap them. I’m stuck to one set (Traveller now, used to be 2/2/2 boon duration before it got nerfed) and it’s annoying.

If i had a celestial build, this is what it would look like:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNUQJATRjEqUwaLLWsQ1ag9gadAUAnd7hog3BXbRBfqA-ThCBABQt/AGHCAHVC2wFAgU1fA4BA4xRAwMlf5pJQPdABAQAu5NDAH9oH9oH9odzbezbezbWKAzEaB-e

As u correctly pointed out the difference is not that great, the only stat that concerns me is condition damage since this build does not focus on that. However with the survival skills you can take a little advantage of it.

If you don’t want to head in that direction then I recommend you to switch it for Rampage as one as well as change Lightning reflexes for signet of stone. You will also have to adjust the traits from Wilderness knowledge to Shared anguish and SteadyF ocus to Signet Mastery. Good luck with your build and I hope to hear about your findings soon.

It’s worth pointing out you don’t need to use every attribute to make Celestial numerically worth it. You can use 6 out of the 7 attributes and have more overall stats than you would have using other armour sets. By this I mean, an Ascended chest piece gives 258 stats spread over it’s major attribute and 2 minors, whereas Celestial gives 50 to every attribute, totalling 350. So even using 6 attributes you are getting 300 useful stats over the usual 258. It only becomes numerically ineffiecent when you drop 2 attributes, because then, clearly, you’re only making use of 250 of the stats Celestial is giving you which is fewer than another chest piece would give you.

Rangers do struggle to use all 7 attributes well in a build (unlike Elementalists), so usually Celestial build end up dropping either Healing Power or Condition Damage. These 2 are picked because you can’t not use all the other attributes.

Thanks for tips on build.

Well your build isn’t a full celestial, only the armor and some trinkets.

If you ran full celestial including weapons and armor with LB/GS, I think the build would be weak.

I would think celestial could work better with the shortbow, sword or the main hand axe used in condition builds. Sword and Axe autoattacks don’t do any condition damage so they would benefit from celestial. And while SB1 bleeds from the flank, its autoattack is pretty fast.

In your build, you don’t need condition damage, and healing really only benefits regen builds. So if you eliminate those 2 stats, you’re only getting 110 in stats vs 115 for the helm. And according to the stats guys, power > precison or ferocity, not equivalent to them.

In my opinion, you’re better off mixing and matching some knights, valk, soldiers in with your zerker gear.