Guild Wars 2

i mean, axe mainhand is supposed to be a ranged hybrid weapon, that the weapon is really wonky, it has very long animations that make every single attack to take much more time that stated in the tooltip.

So if Aney decide for Christmas to be a good pal and rework all the ranger problems i think it would be good to make the axe our hybrid weapon.

Axe mainhand actually does a good condition damage, unfortunately is slower than the longbow but has a much shorter range.

So to make up for it the weapon should have better direct damage coeficients, in mainhand and offhand skills.

So you could use axe mainhand with axe off hand for direct damage or axe \ torch for condition.

A lot of weapons don’t make sense on some professions. I’m seriously of the opinion that Anet needs to release a MAJOR patch that looks into the design of every class and addresses the issues that the community have pointed out.

Axe has a more straightforward problem.

The weapon is not defined.
It’s a mid-range multi-target weapon that deals low direct damage and mediocre condi damage that even as a mid-range weapon deals noticeable damage in melee range and is useless as soon as there is 1 target only.

Long story short – the weapon has poor design.
Just like most of Ranger there is.

Why does our Grandmaster trait for goodness sake, give us Ferocity on a Condi-melee weapon?

I sometimes go in open pve quick draw with warhorn and axe trait, just for lulz. Easy might stacks and such, but still lacking and weird. It’s a mid range weapon, it’s supposed to do higher damage, no ? Same for SB ?

Beside LB and GS, I don’t think Ranger have weapon with good mechanics.

Yeah it really could use redefinition.

I’d call shortbow the true hybrid weapon though, not axe, despite axe having some of the components for hybrid.

I think the AA is OK, just needs to scale dmg based on range. Closer range = more dmg upto sword lvl.

Splitblade could have a similar closer range = more dmg in both physicaland bleed dmg. Well it does already in bleed dmg but I think it could go further with each axe producing more bleeds the closer the enemy is.

Winter’s bite seems strong as is with its short CD. Maybe toss in some vulnerability to assist the hybrid theme.

Honed axe trait should dump ferocity in favor of +% might duration per wielded axe.

Beside LB and GS, I don’t think Ranger have weapon with good mechanics.

I’m not sure what you mean there. LB and GS are power weapons to be sure. and they are the most favored by rangers but most of a rangers weapons have amazing mechanics.

Shortbow has amazing mechanics as a skirmish weapon. An extra evade on a relatively short cooldown, Daze (which combos nicely with Ancient Seeds), bleeding, poison and cripple?

Sword in my opinion is the ultimate hybrid weapon. It has quick strikes with 2 evades, condition damage, 2 gap closers, and the damage is perfectly middrange. It also combos well with three of the ranger’s four offhand weapons.

MH Axe: is pretty crappy, but it works well with the torch allowing you to apply ranged burns. Given, the shortbow does this as well but only if you have torch out first, and switch to shortbow.

OH Axe: yeah it sucks. I have yet to find a real use for it

Torch: okay, the torch has the best fire combo field in the game, it drops quickly, has multiple ways of using it, and inflicts burning. the torch throw is anti climatic but still in keeping with the ranger’s condi theme.

Dagger: An extra evade,bleed, poison and cripple. nothing too special, but it works perfect with the sword.

MH Axe feels like a really strange weapon type. I think its meant to be more focused on being the mid-ranged AoE/Condi weapon more than anything else, but does a so-so job at that role.
As for changes:

-The AA is fine
-Splitblade could probably use a slightly faster animation
-Winter’s Bite imo should be an AoE without traiting. Maybe remove the pet weakness and give it a slightly longer Chill?

Honed Axes trait could be changed to something like:

-Increase Might duration so long as you’re holding a MH Axe or something similar (Axe skills have a chance at giving additional stack(s) of Might)

-Condi duration increased while holding a MH Axe (similar to Light on your Feet).

Actually IMO i think they just should make axe a pure power based weapon and sword a pure condi weapon or vice versa. Hybrid weapons are are problematic to design and gives this disadvanced class even more problems.
To make the offhands more diverse give the dagger some utility, like a shadowstep to the enemy abbility and a backwards evade.
-> mainhand: Axe (power), sword(condi)
->offhand: Torch(condi) , axe(power), dagger(utility), horn(support)

As someone who love using Axe. I gotta agree that the Axe AA damage is way too low. Probably the weakest AA in game? It would be nice to see raw damage buff for the AA.

The Might stack is really useless because Axe scale really poorly or you would get the Might stack from someone else. I would rather have it stack Vulnerability on targets. Same effect but synergy much better with condi.

As for the skills, they are fine but need some small tweak.

The Spitblade barely ever hit all 5 blades unless you stand right in the melee range (you can test vs the golem in hotm) and it’s even worse if you are moving. The hitbox on those thing need to be bigger.

Winter’s Bite could have Unblockable. God I wish Ranger have ANY thing unblockable. Or maybe Boon rip/convert. At the very least this could be Projectile finisher.

Axe damage is only low if you use it wrong. Axe main hand aa can do more damage that lb closes up (of course two or more targets).

Some of you call axe a hybrid weapon but split blade is only good at close range and the projectile finisher on the aa is the same lb gets. Chill and vulnerability don’t real get any thing out of raw condition damage.

Rangers really needed a main hand condition weapon which is why I find druid so disappointing.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Axe damage is only low if you use it wrong. Axe main hand aa can do more damage that lb closes up (of course two or more targets).

Some of you call axe a hybrid weapon but split blade is only good at close range and the projectile finisher on the aa is the same lb gets. Chill and vulnerability don’t real get any thing out of raw condition damage.

Rangers really needed a main hand condition weapon which is why I find druid so disappointing.

axe aa doing more dmg than LBs weakest aa dmg is not really saying much at all. Certainly not when its 2nd weapon skill is not even the same dmg type where as LBs is.

its not a hybrid weapon, but it could be if they increased the shortrange dmg on the aa. The might build up would affect the aa power dmg and also the splitblade condi dmg.

Vulnerability affects power and condition dmg.

If your long bow aa damage at 1000 plus range is 930 your axe damage aa based on the same stats would be 485 × 3 = 1455 even with two hits on the same target you looking at 970. Now if arrow are piecing then the damage comes out better.

Don’t be dazzled by the bigger numbers on the long bow.

I’m all up for swapping Sword into condition based weapon and Axe into Power weapon.

Double Axe meta would definitely look appealing from visual point of view.

If ranger existed in a vacuum, all of our weapons would be in a decent spot. They’ll all interesting. I like axe; if you were playing single player Diablo II and found a weapon like an axe, you’d hold on to it because “I can definitely use that in some situations.” All of our weapons have interesting pros and cons.

Unfortunately this is GW2 and there are 8 other professions, with lots of pros and a couple cons.

I would not be in favor of giving up sword for condi and nothing wrong with running dual axe on a power build

Serraphin Storm.2369:

I would not be in favor of giving up sword for condi and nothing wrong with running dual axe on a power build

There’s actually a lot of wrong with running Axe on a power build.
Efficiency, for example.

>Condi Sword
I cant agree with this. That sort of thing would be better fit to a Dagger MH (speaking of which, why cant we have that? We can already equip it as an offhand weapon….)

Tragic Positive.9356:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

I would not be in favor of giving up sword for condi and nothing wrong with running dual axe on a power build

There’s actually a lot of wrong with running Axe on a power build.
Efficiency, for example.

Sure against a single target but two or more its a non issue.

Axe/Axe would look appealing from an aesthetic point of view. If they made Axe a melee power weapon, and sword a condi weapon, that would look really cool.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

If your long bow aa damage at 1000 plus range is 930 your axe damage aa based on the same stats would be 485 × 3 = 1455 even with two hits on the same target you looking at 970. Now if arrow are piecing then the damage comes out better.

Don’t be dazzled by the bigger numbers on the long bow.

Yes but lb nor axe are about skill 1, they are heavily centered around skill 2.

I do not want condi sword and power axe. I would like seeing axe hybrid improved upon but yeah that is another “problem”. Offhand axe is truely power with only a slightly possible hybrid when stacked with high precision and sharpened edges. But that doesn’t even come close to the dmg of just running any condition dmg and torch.

" problem" but really so long as the trait for axes favors both power/condi/hybrid there is nothing saying you have to be able to run axe/axe in same build. +might duration would favor an improved mainhand axe with an AA that scales better with power. Not sure how much it would improve offhand axe though but perhaps the CDR would balance that out as it favors the offhand axe more than mainhand.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

I would not be in favor of giving up sword for condi and nothing wrong with running dual axe on a power build

There’s actually a lot of wrong with running Axe on a power build.
Efficiency, for example.

Sure against a single target but two or more its a non issue.

False.
Axe may be at ~90% of the damage when 2 targets are present but it still doesn’t beat Sword at DPS. And when there are 3 targets, Sword wins by a long term again.

Range damage is always inferior to melee. Yes in the back of my mind axe is melee but we know its not. Sword only wins when they stack. Yes in theory sword does more damage on multiple targets. The fact is in wvw and open world pve overall damage output will be high simply because you don’t have to waste time running target to target and will hit maximum targets a lot more often making up for the damage deficit.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Range damage is always inferior to melee. Yes in the back of my mind axe is melee but we know its not. Sword only wins when they stack. Yes in theory sword does more damage on multiple targets. The fact is in wvw and open world pve overall damage output will be high simply because you don’t have to waste time running target to target and will hit maximum targets a lot more often making up for the damage deficit.

thinking range damage should be lower than melee is simply wrong.
a well designed weapon has in mind speed, range and utility.

for example, player complain about the greatsword. i think greatsword AA is fine, it is an utility weapon, not a dps one. offers blocks, evades and mobility.
i would increase the damage in the maul though that skill is too telegraphed and slow casting to have the damage it actually has.

Axe mainhand being slower and shorter range than the longbow it does less damage overall. The animations are really weird, having some skills long aftercast other skill takes like 1 second to cast (like splitebade).
My choice would be without changing the actual damage just reduce by half the casting time that would make the weapon a real choice.

if Aney wont make it faster at least they should increase the power damage to be in line of Longbow max range. somehow make each hit to count for something.

just one note, this weapon would be fantastic to hit enemies on the walls in wvw. but with the actual speed and lack of damage the weapon is just not rewarding or useful

I don’t think range damage should be lower its just the way it is in Gw2. The Dev talked about it being risk vs reward. So any long time Gw2 player should know it really isn’t far to compare range vs melee. There are exceptions but its a general rule.

There are inequalities in how single target and aoe range skills are handled. But as someone pointed out even the staff aa is capable of dealing more damage than lb (more so with axe). Then you take in the healing component and it doesn’t seem bad at all. However like the axe the staff need to be used against multiple targets to realize any of its potential (allied and/or enemy targets).

Split blade like rf once was results in a dps lose.

One person standing on a wall that you can hit with a long bow then use the long bow. That same person standing behind a mortor (or using it), the axe is the way to go.

There are things that are general rules that we do because in a lot of situation they are a decent or good choice that doesn’t mean they are the best choice.

Huh, only if there was a class that offered a main-hand power axe and sword main-hand condi option… Oh wait, there already is, Warrior! If I were to see sword be converted into a pure condi weapon and axe into power, I would be a sad Doogy

Serraphin Storm.2369:

I don’t think range damage should be lower its just the way it is in Gw2. The Dev talked about it being risk vs reward. So any long time Gw2 player should know it really isn’t far to compare range vs melee. There are exceptions but its a general rule.

is it yet a thing that crap about the risk vs reward?
i thought it was we already realize that aney was using one of their marketing sentences:

• risk vs reward
• much sinergy
• such situational
• we want the players to be aware of their surroundings
• strategic positional

was only when they knew they were just about to crap all over the place (not only with the ranger, other classes as well, or even the event.. do you remember the mordrem invasion? same all same all)

so let’s forget from now on about this bs of self balancing, will we?
Axe doesnt work, needs rework. Lets first get it right, how we would love to play with. if its op Aney can tweak numbers later, they always do and always do it really fast.
but for the love of god, we should stop nerfing ourselves,

Axe can have more damage that lb. You can say it marketing but there is evidence to support it.

If you insist that axe is condi its no wonder you find it lacking.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

…

If you insist that axe is condi its no wonder you find it lacking.

It’s not called “insist”. It’s called maths.

What math. Are we talking how condi in general scales better. Some of the math people use to say axe is a condi weapon would also suggest that lb is as well.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

What math. Are we talking how condi in general scales better. Some of the math people use to say axe is a condi weapon would also suggest that lb is as well.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tuDz1x50hIhREdfWni7Eim9MbG8cDRkIuuIsioXdruc/edit#gid=0

Assuming that Axe is the only melee main hand weapon that deals considerable condition damage on a semi-short Cooldown – it’s obviously the condition weapon since you need Torch with Quickdraw in order to be called a condi DPS.

Plus from the spreadsheet you can calculate the direct damage yourself since you don’t believe.
If 2 targets are present, sword’s chain would hit:
1: 2 targets
2: 1 target
3: 2 targets
Which results in 3,2 (2×0,6+1x0,6+2x0,7) coefficient damage in 1,8 seconds.

Axe on 2 targets would still deal 2×1,5 coefficient (0,5 per target hit, 2 into main target, 1 into secondary) in 2 seconds.

I’m sorry, Sir. You won’t neglect reality. Even in the most favorable scenario – Axe is not a power weapon.
It might be a weapon used for hybrid builds but thanks to being the only condi option – it’s obviously classified as our main condi weapon.

Tragic Positive.9356:

deals low direct damage and mediocre condi damage

Well … that is the GW2 definition of hybrid weapon, and that is how it was designed.

Sadly, I don’t see axe being good in PvE ever because hybrid will never be good in PvE, axe is only used in the ranger meta cond build because it is the only option (torch is the main weapon in the build and between sword and axe, axe has pierce finisher to spread more burn).

Ranger are in dire need of good 1h weapons, sword is used in power build mainly because the AA is fast, the other 2 skills is pretty niche at best, and axe is the mess we are discussing here.

I can’t wait future elite specs that can give either a good power or cond 1h weapon (dagger or scepter would be my wish list )

Belzebu.3912:

Tragic Positive.9356:

deals low direct damage and mediocre condi damage

Well … that is the GW2 definition of hybrid weapon, and that is how it was designed.

By that design or definition, Torch is a hybrid weapon, too.

Wow just wow. This is a perfect example of why you actually have to do things and not just make spreadsheets.

Axe would actually deliver 6 impact in 2 seconds 4 to the first and two to the second.

Spread those two targets out to 300 unit and axe would still deliver 6 impacts while sword would complete its chain and only damage one. The strength of the weapon is its range the strength of the sword is its speed.

Do the same for the other range weapons: two targets spaced 300 units apart even with rapid fire one would only deal 1500 damage in 2.50 second with a long bow (1800 damage with aa in 2 seconds) . Calculate the axe dps yourself.

Anything greater than 1000 units on a single target and lb is the clear choice.

the effectiveness of axe main hand in a condi build is more about defense on both the rangers part and his target.

Lb is seeing more action in hybrid build 20% projectile finisher isn’t great at all in a condi build its the other weapons that make the condi aspect workable.

Tragic Positive.9356:

By that design or definition, Torch is a hybrid weapon, too.

How?
Torch has no direct damage and both skills burn really good, can’t be more cond than that.
Dagger is our hybrid off hand, less direct damage than axe, less cond than torch, but more cond than warhorn.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Wow just wow. This is a perfect example of why you actually have to do things and not just make spreadsheets.

If you knew how to use math, or how to read comments of people who did the math for you, you’d know that what I tried to tell you.
(sword does (5) hits in 1,8 seconds against 2 targets, all attacks with higher coefficients)
(axe does 6 hits in 2 seconds against 2 targets, all attacks with same lower coefficients)

At this point, anything further would be pointless. You have nothing to support your opinion with. I’m sorry, but you don’t.

Belzebu.3912:

Tragic Positive.9356:

By that design or definition, Torch is a hybrid weapon, too.

How?
Torch has no direct damage and both skills burn really good

It has direct damage. Very low one but it has. You can go check it.
The burning has long CD. The weapon is not that powerful alone.
Quick Draw is what does the magic. Not torch itself.

I’m just trying to demonstrate where the flaw in your statement is.
Torch is not used as Power weapon (even though it has direct damage and low coefficients) because of efficiency.
Axe falls into the very same category.

anyone trying to say axe is a power weapon because its aa compares to lb aa shouldn’t be saying anything.

at best its a hybrid weapon with sinister/rampager/celestial gear and that’s only when you have 2-3 targets to get the aa full potential.

Justine.6351:

anyone trying to say axe is a power weapon because its aa compares to lb aa shouldn’t be saying anything.

at best its a hybrid weapon with sinister/rampager/celestial gear and that’s only when you have 2-3 targets to get the aa full potential.

^This.

Although i like the mechanic of the weapon, it gives a reason for the people to not stack, the axe needs an improvement. We need more skills in this department, the skills to get more stronger the more targets it hits.

Attack speed for me would be the best to hit at least every 1/2 second instead every 1 1/2 second like now. And the spill-blades to cast at least twice as fast as now, when the blades go out the target is already moved and far away. Axe 3 should become AoE by baseline and the trait Honed Axes needs a rework.

anduriell.6280:

Justine.6351:

anyone trying to say axe is a power weapon because its aa compares to lb aa shouldn’t be saying anything.

at best its a hybrid weapon with sinister/rampager/celestial gear and that’s only when you have 2-3 targets to get the aa full potential.

^This.

Although i like the mechanic of the weapon, it gives a reason for the people to not stack, the axe needs an improvement. We need more skills in this department, the skills to get more stronger the more targets it hits.

Attack speed for me would be the best to hit at least every 1/2 second instead every 1 1/2 second like now. And the spill-blades to cast at least twice as fast as now, when the blades go out the target is already moved and far away. Axe 3 should become AoE by baseline and the trait Honed Axes needs a rework.

I think it should just do more dmg to closer targets. If at melee range it did sword dmg it would help fill another 1handed melee weapon need and finnaly end all the sword AA crying, maybe.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Belzebu.3912:

Tragic Positive.9356:

By that design or definition, Torch is a hybrid weapon, too.

How?
Torch has no direct damage and both skills burn really good

It has direct damage. Very low one but it has. You can go check it.
The burning has long CD. The weapon is not that powerful alone.
Quick Draw is what does the magic. Not torch itself.

I’m just trying to demonstrate where the flaw in your statement is.
Torch is not used as Power weapon (even though it has direct damage and low coefficients) because of efficiency.
Axe falls into the very same category.

Do the same math vs any ranger ranged weapon. What was your point even trying to compare sword to axe?

I agree that MH Axe needs some work. Maybe buff the self-Might of Ricochet from 3s to 5s, make Winter’s Bite AOE by default, lower the cast time of Splitblade from ¾s to ½s for starts.

As for Ricochet, maybe add a condition on it so if the bounce strikes another target, all targets struck will be afflicted with 1 stack of bleeding. Very similar to Puncture Shot on the Dragonhunter Longbow, so that it punishes enemies for grouping up together.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Do the same math vs any ranger ranged weapon. What was your point even trying to compare sword to axe?

How about you’d be the one to do the math this time?
I already did my part. I’m here to help people. Not to serve the lazy ones.

My point was that Axe is not a Power weapon even in the most favorable situation against sword in the least favorable situation.
Your argument was invalid.

How does showing that sword has better dps than another weapon prove its a condi weapon.

That isn’t even a valid argument. My argument is axe often times produces more damage than the long bow (clearly a power weapon) in situation were there are more than one target.

We were talking about ranged weapons showing that gs or sw does more dps is exactly how you use math to deceive. Did you prove axe condi is superior to short bow or torch. Could you even prove axe condi is superior to long bow condi (hyperbole).

Using axe as a condi weapon is like using butter with jelly because you have no peanut butter. Yes we don’t have a better choice that does make it a good choice.

In group events with lots of trash mobs power axe performs better than long bow. Vs bosses with multiple hit boxes axe does better than long bow.

It would take dual lb and quick draw with piecing damage and superior positioning to do what axe does with causual axe throws.

If the damage is so close to our best power range weapon and there is no math to support it condi damage. How does that make it a condi weapon.

Yes your math shows that the best weapon rangers have is the sword, funny how few of us run 1h sword. If we think about how we play your math also shows that axe can be better in a lot of situations over the other ranged weapons.

Tragic Positive.9356:

It has direct damage. Very low one but it has. You can go check it.
The burning has long CD. The weapon is not that powerful alone.
Quick Draw is what does the magic. Not torch itself.

I’m just trying to demonstrate where the flaw in your statement is.
Torch is not used as Power weapon (even though it has direct damage and low coefficients) because of efficiency.
Axe falls into the very same category.

I meant no direct damage as in not relevant damage, it is negligible.
My statement is that, for Anet, an hybrid weapon have low damage of both types, torch have decent cond damage and extremely low power damage, it makes torch a cond weapon, maybe not a good one by itself, but you can’t make it work at all as a power weapon.

Axe, differently from torch, you can make it work in both builds, maybe not THAT effectively, but viable for sure. I used axe/axe in a power build for a long time and it was fine, torch you don’t use in a power build because you just can’t, literally any other off hand would be a better power weapon, why? Because torch was designed as a cond weapon.

Thread derailed so badly, why even bother asking Irenio to look at main-hand axe. Who knows, maybe he’ll give it the “Gee” treatment and tweak it a bit. I’d really like to see what he would come up with if he did modify it.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Thread derailed so badly, why even bother asking Irenio to look at main-hand axe. Who knows, maybe he’ll give it the “Gee” treatment and tweak it a bit. I’d really like to see what he would come up with if he did modify it.

It would be reverted within 24 hours if some change showed itself

Justine.6351:

Honed axe trait should dump ferocity in favor of +% might duration per wielded axe.

Replace Ferocity with Precision for each axe wielded, add 10 % attack speed when wielding an axe. Make the aoe Winter’s Bite thing baseline, it’s ridiculous how this thing wasn’t added as an axe buff in the first place.

Would be nice if axe had more ummph to it, wouldn’t complain.

As a thief main back then afraid for nerfs I kept it secret (you know Anet jumps on a lot of stuff to nerf that shouldnt be nerfed, like shortbow of ranger).

The thing is TRICK shot is waaaaaaaaaaay better then axe auto. It has barely for/aftercast (is like 33% faster almost), and the arrow fly further. And I think the damage modifier is also higher. Pet or no pet, Shortbow thief is just better then axe for ranger (apart from heavy bleed aplication).

But with thief/ranger being on bottom of dps barrel atm (especially thief) for raids, it shouldn’t hurt to much to say this.

Axe AA should be at least as good as trick shot (either faster, or more damage).