Guild Wars 2

—Condition Cleanse
This has been mentioned several times. Rangers lack condition cleanse apart from traits. And both Condi cleansing options are in the same trait line and the same Grandmaster tier. That’s wrong and this needs to be addressed.
We either need more condi cleanse on our abilities/glued to other traits or we need Empathic Bond on a lower tier. It’s not worth the Grandmaster anyways.
~Consider adding condition removal to Invigorating Bond / Warhorn / Spirits and reconsider Empathic Bond with Wilderness Knowledge overlapping each other

—Survivability
Rangers are now in immense range of defensive options, tools, traits and utilities that have been addressed with nice precision. Good job on that one A-net. You really deserve a thumb up for these changes.

—Support Options
As the title says – we currently have the potential to keep 100% uptime of swiftness, regeneration and while in combat even Fury. We also provide unique 7% crit via Spotter.
But the question is… Is any of that a difference? Fury is provided by 3 other classes, swiftness is not really unique and we are not even best at applying it. Perma Regen sounds like the only thing that is unique and has potential for sPvP.
With the new spirits we lost our disruptive potential because you could activate the spirit 2 times. Casting the ability and on it’s death (and you can be sure it died fast). We lost our supportive nature (we can’t support anymore, we can only bunker a point and even that is nerfed because we lost the only reliable source of Rally – which was Elite Spirit dying).

Rangers need a defining way of supporting people, and if we get none – we at least need to be on the same level as other supporting classes in case we dedicate our whole build to it. We all know I’m talking about Eles and Engis here. They can support by speccing into offense.

Traits with wrong idea/value

• Moment of Clarity – this trait only works with Greatsword. It’s weak with other weapons including Longbow.
  ~Consider making this trait affect no auto-attacks but abilities only
• Strider’s Defense – this trait is not appealing. The abilities are used in times of need, not on cooldown. For PvE runs Spotter is still the answer which means this trait needs utility. 25% RNG deflect is just not worth and cooldown reduction is pointless. One of the biggest problems of the Sword is no gap closer. This is a wonderful place to hit the nail on the head.
  ~Consider giving 25% movement speed while wielding sword to it’s current functionality
• Light on Your Feet – the idea is good. The numbers are far below the grandmaster. It’s worth Adept at best. Consider increasing the duration to 7 seconds and ability to stack this effect (not per attack dodged but per dodge used) – than it’s going to be okay. We have high access to vigor and there are Sigils of Energy. But currently – the damage boost is a joke.
• Most Dangerous game – this trait is currently not worth a grandmaster. Under 50% health you are putting your life on the line and for this trait to work you need to stay below 50%. Enlargement is currently better this trait in functionality and value.
  ~Consider buffing this trait to add Ferocity in addition to Might every few seconds for better synergy with Remorseless
• Poison Master is not going to be picked. Ever. Reasons is that this is the only place for Condition Removal. And even the Poison Master got nerfed. This trait can be saved only if Rangers other issues are addressed.
• Invigorating Bond – explained in survivability. This trait has potential but needs more than 110 heal per second value. For a Grandmaster that is.
  ~Consider adding cleansing mechanic to it’s current functionality
• Honed Axes – I just don’t get why would anyone want Ferocity on this. No one’s ever going to focus on Direct Damage with Axes. And Ferocity is a Pure Zerk stat. The AoE part of the trait is fine.
  ~Consider changing Ferocity into Precision for synergy with other traits (bleeding & might for pet on crits)
  __________________________________________

I’d like to continue this thread with a calm and constructive manner to keep it as clear and easy to follow as possible. Any comments, ideas, shared proposals, intents or disagreements with my proposed changes are very welcome.

Let ArenaNet know they made a mistake but they still have plenty of ways to improve and fix their miscalculations. We, after all, are the ones who suffered through so many years of being inferior to other classes in positive attitude and objective views

Result of the changes

• Rangers are currently out of any competitive environment. We lack competitive PvP strengths.
• We have nothing to offer for WvW Zerg environment and we aren’t even best at roaming and we are weak at solo or scouting.
• Our class is still not the top tier in PvE.

• Every class should have a place in the current system, at least one. While Rangers didn’t have any single scene, there were classes that excelled in every single one (Eles, Warriors, Guardians). While other classes got buffed in every single scenario, we got nerfed at places we never were strong at.

Conclusion: If ranger as a class wants to hold more than 5% of GW2 population, changes need to be made. Currently as it goes – no one is going to appreciate the Ranger. Not even players who played the class for enjoyment.

Been waiting for you to post mate

And… After reading it all, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you have said.

I really hope ANet read this post as it is right on the money.

Agreed with everything. I still believe Poison Master should be merged with Refined Toxins and placed at a Master tier to compete with Ambidexterity. These traits should present hard choices and competition with one another to define builds.

Going for more general condition damage among all conditions vs focusing solely on poison application and damage should be the choice in the Master tier of Wilderness Survival for condition-based builds.

It will offer more diversity in terms of weapon choice, runes/sigils, and would allow those said condition builds to choose Empathic Bond or Wilderness Knowledge depending on if Survival utilities are taken.

My 2 cents to add to this thread.

I read through basically every classes changes already..

While this “patch” fixes some of our weaknesses, I find that compare to other classes, this patch brings nothing new to the table for ranger in general. It is like a QoL changes that fix some of the mediocre and weird traits and skills, but unlike Engi, Mesmer, Ele, Necro, and Thief, which basically have their whole traits and many skills revamp entirely, Ranger remains almost the same as before patch, just less weaknesses… Mesmer ,Ele, and Engi have so many changes, that their core mechanic and many skills are completely reworked for the better, with so many detailed changes like granting completely new abilities. (Like time-warp grant slow, mimic changes)

Anet promises they’re going to rework spirits and traps so it’d be comparable to maybe Warrior’s banners and Dragon Hunter’s traps, but look at what it turns out. Basically it’s just increase in duration, add some cripple, add tiny bits of damage, and suddenly Anet thinks traps are comparable to DH’s special traps… Same goes to spirits, they’re virtually unchanged whatsoever, just that now their active is even worse than before (kill the spirit), and the passive has some very minor buff. They’re still frail like paper, and they’re even immobile now… No-one would ever waste any slot for spirits post patch in any PVP content…

I feel like Anet is VERY RELUCTANT on giving reasonably high numbers to ranger, while they can easily give Engi something like 50% condition duration and 100% condition for Necro’s Scepter. Basically classes that get buffed the most are Mesmer, Engineer, and Ele, and the funny thing is Engi and Ele are already at the top of food chain yet they get the most buff and most reworked. Sounds logical right?

Yeah, it’s good that we have a more polished power LB ranger , and potentially some melee ranger too post patch, but that’s about it.

Toxsa.2701:

…I feel like Anet is VERY RELUCTANT on giving reasonably high numbers to ranger, while they can easily give Engi something like 50% condition duration and 100% condition for Necro’s Scepter.

IKR, SB is so good already that it can only get a 5% condition duration increase for a GM? That is 0.15s on a 3s bleed btw.

Tragic Positive.9356:

- The Trap changes are a nerf we didn’t deserve. No one was using them before, no one will use them now.

I agree with the nerf / adjustment comment. However, I’m not sure I would say no one was using them before. From a WvW perspective they are very powerful when used with trapper runes and certain builds. In this case I can see why they did what they did although I don’t agree with it.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Toxsa.2701:

…I feel like Anet is VERY RELUCTANT on giving reasonably high numbers to ranger, while they can easily give Engi something like 50% condition duration and 100% condition for Necro’s Scepter.

IKR, SB is so good already that it can only get a 5% condition duration increase for a GM? That is 0.15s on a 3s bleed btw.

Yeah, and Engi will spam their LARGER NADE with 100% projectile speed enhancement, that causes cripple (wow ho, new trait), vulnerable, bleed, burning in one toss. Not to mention their pistol will be a pain for that 50% enhanced condition duration. Gotta move back to my condition nade spamming Engi post patch lol..

Crapgame.6519:

Tragic Positive.9356:

- The Trap changes are a nerf we didn’t deserve. No one was using them before, no one will use them now.

I agree with the nerf / adjustment comment. However, I’m not sure I would say no one was using them before. From a WvW perspective they are very powerful when used with trapper runes and certain builds. In this case I can see why they did what they did although I don’t agree with it.

The trapper rune made it out of balance. By itself they are average… Thus its why they get so many play in spvp or pve (sarcasm).

Back to the topic, what they failed once again is to give that profession an actual concept! They almost made it with the Opening Strike. Imo ranger would be better with lots of active defense rather than passive one. In my mind ranger are expert at camouflage and as nimble as an elf in the forest/nature. So my ideal would be the super speed class with few to none passive defense (protect me, signet of stone). Ranger could also fit the “duelist” class when it comes to melee. But they chose to give no flavour to the class… Everything seems to pull in its own direction. The best class is by far thief because everything is made to deal lots of dmg quickly and survive with teleports and stealth. Thats the way ANET needs to take for ranger.

Thats my opinion

This is a really great post.

The only new thing I’m actually a bit excited about is quick draw. The spirit changes are absolutely horrible, traps seem really bad too. I’m still not sure what they are thinking with Light on your Feet, it makes such a marginal difference, it’s pretty much the opposite what a grandmaster trait should be.

I get the feeling that they aren’t actually testing many of their changes against players that are actually capable to play the game on a high level. Projectiles have enough disadvantages already, it’d be okay to make some of them actually strong.

Why Ele and Engi need those buffs is beyond me anyway.

+1 to this post.

Hi, I see things differently on few topics on your post some I agree with some and I think you’re completely overlooking allot and want the best of both worlds rather then it being balanced.

First off I’ll start with.

Traps – They got major buff, now don’t take this wrong way but your complaining about Trap runes come on mate that is just plain stupid they have nothing to do with Ranger class there rune set. That aside now at first I figured losing being able to throw the traps would be a problem but when you take look at some of the other trait lines I can see some major combo’s you can pull off using the traps.

Traps will be doing more damage and buff to Spike/Frost trap was rather big, you can combo that with other trait lines rather well hint “beastmaster”. Traps will become meta again and be rather strong, they will lose their effectiveness I believe in team fight’s with buffs to Bunker Guard getting more condition remove and more effective ways to heal there team but that is fine its apart of the game.

Spirits – I honestly don’t know if they will be any better or worse off, terms of PvE don’t really care about PvE and WvW same goes there. In terms of SPvP well I’m unsure I can see them being useful but at same time useless can’t really say till they release the patch and it’s been tested.

Damage modifiers – This didn’t effect PvP side of the game, maybe PvE side but that’s about it, they gave us more damage with better trait synergy in terms of PvP.

Condition Cleanse – I don’t understand this one, we have some of if not best self-condition remove in the game. With Trolls becoming Survival skill and Quickening Zephyr getting a change we will have killer Survival build with loads of condition remove.

Healing Spring changes as well “Trapper’s Expertise: Boons and conditions caused by your traps last 60% longer. Your traps recharge 20% faster and your offensive traps cause 2s of cripple.”

Just take look at all our options of condition remove honestly we got more.

Moment of Clarity – I agree is weak, with any other weapon but it’s no longer a grandmaster, so we don’t need to treat it the same anymore. From what I can see between trait line synergy they have given us some really strong builds for GS, both Predator’s Onslaught and Remorseless will fit into melee builds really well. I can see people rocking GS – S/H builds using Marksmanship/Wilderness Survival/Beastmaster. It will be one of many builds that will be able to run.

Strider’s Defense – Agreed.

Light on Your Feet – Agreed.

Most Dangerous game – This trait is a great trait we can combo it with Enlargement from marksmanship and Brutish Seals and Predator’s Onslaught, that’s a rather massive damage boost.

They have given us different options to apply burst damage. We won’t fully know the outcome until they release the patch but so far looks good.

Poison Master – Agreed it will never ever get used again.

Invigorating Bond – Agreed, also they need to improve the range to 600.

Honed Axes – Agreed. Trait won’t get used much maybe in niche build.

Going back to Damage modifiers, seen as almost every ranger is required to take Wilderness Survival now, you might want to take look at, Refined Toxins: While you are above 90% health your strikes inflict 6s of poison. While your pet’s health is above 90% its strikes inflict 6s of poison. This trait has a 10 second internal cool down. Can’t say if it will be super effective in some fight vs things like Retaliation, but we will see.

Sol.4310:

…

Traps – They got major buff, now don’t take this wrong way but your complaining about Trap runes come on mate that is just plain stupid they have nothing to do with Ranger class there rune set. That aside now at first I figured losing being able to throw the traps would be a problem but when you take look at some of the other trait lines I can see some major combo’s you can pull off using the traps.

Traps will be doing more damage and buff to Spike/Frost trap was rather big, you can combo that with other trait lines rather well hint “beastmaster”. Traps will become meta again and be rather strong, they will lose their effectiveness I believe in team fight’s with buffs to Bunker Guard getting more condition remove and more effective ways to heal there team but that is fine its apart of the game.

…

Some clarification on this.
Yes, it’s true that some traps were buffed. Ice Trap and Spike Trap are the example. But condition damage went down a lot. The “buffs” to condition traps were nothing else than a standardization to current condition system. By not being able to apply them from a safe distance – you risk a lot.

The point of trapper ranger is that you have to sacrifice all your utility skills to put them to work. And in melee range that’s a problem.

It’s not the numbers that were nerfed. It’s the use-in-practice that carries higher risk than reward for the changes.

Sol.4310:

…Condition Cleanse – I don’t understand this one, we have some of if not best self-condition remove in the game. With Trolls becoming Survival skill and Quickening Zephyr getting a change we will have killer Survival build with loads of condition remove…

…Most Dangerous game – This trait is a great trait we can combo it with Enlargement from marksmanship and Brutish Seals and Predator’s Onslaught, that’s a rather massive damage boost…

Sure, WK is good. Assuming you have a bar full of survival skills. And they didn’t mention TU becoming survival again. QZ change is good, yes, but what options do we have for non-WS condi clear?

MDG is terrible, how can you even think that staying below 50% health is a semi-viable thing to do? It is counter-intuitive and difficult to use MDG to its fullest. Not GM worthy. Look at Phalanx Strength, that is a good GM might trait. Look at Juggernaught, that is a good GM might trait (with stability) MDG is bad. Period.

@Tragic Positive.9356, for SB users it might be a problem, but I find you spend more time in melee range as 600 range is nothing and with all gap closer’s honestly placing traps at your feet really isn’t a problem. On how bad the change really is we will find out patch day.

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582, if you don’t want to Wilderness Survival you can take combo’s like Healing Spring, Natures Renewal, Lightning Reflexes, Evasive Purity, Spirit of Nature, there are also Sigils and Runes but I try to not include them.

MDG is really good skill for burst builds, the amount of times in PvP your below 50% health is very common, E.g. thief will put you below 50% in seconds of jumping you if there decent, normally you try to escape spamming skills now all you will do is hit signet of stone and counter burst them, remember Enlargement gives you 25% more damage and between bonus might between signets and MDG your going to murder targets rather fast. The counter combo I see is you will use Quickening Zephyr to clear any blinds or stuns which normally get applied on openers then follow with your Greatsword combo’s.

Now you don’t need to combo MDG with marksmanship you could completely forget about Skirmishing and go with Beastmaster and counter combo using the F2 traits and just maul them with fast petswap or you could take Zephyrs Speed on pet swap and rapid fire them.

There are many options start thinking outside the box, this time round they gave us some real trait synergy.

As someone who usually plays condi or bunker/beastmaster, I’m very excited for these changes.

1) Shortbow skill 2 is super strong now. At melee it’s 5 stacks of poison for 4 seconds. This puts Splitblade to shame.
2) With poison stacking intensity, Poison Master’s damage boost is actually good. Rangers can realistically burst 10+ stacks of poison on people.
3) Remorseless got a HUGE buff. Opening strike whenever you gain fury. You gain fury on weapon swap for one, and greatsword gives you fury every 10 seconds. Add a few more and you’re suddenly dropping huge amounts of vuln on people.
4) Quick Draw works great with Moment of Clarity. GS + LB using their interrupt skills after swap. Tons of interrupts, great for bunker decap ranger.
5) Quick Draw is also great on condi burst builds. Use it with SB 2 and Axe 2. You get two of those skills in per swap instead of 1.
6) Nature Magic got some nice stuff (instead of just survival/condi removal from before). 20% boon duration from a minor is TONS. Quickness when your health drops below 50% (it’s a boon now, too). 100% regeneration uptime with the Marksmanship trait. Protective Ward is also great value for defensive builds. Lots to love here.
7) Beastmaster tree is good now too. The adept traits cover all the essentials that made pets feel awkward before, along with a good damage boost. The F2 traits are all absurdly good, depending on ICD. Some pets have 8s F2 cooldowns. That’s 5s of blind and 4s of weakness every 8 seconds. Most of all though:
8) ALL PETS ARE NOW WOLVES. 2s taunt on F2 usage with only a 15s cooldown. Wolf CC has a 45 second cooldown. Now you get it with additional effects from other pets at 15s cooldown.

There’s some stuff I don’t like:
1) Honed axes looks unappealing. Winter’s Bite is one of the best weapon skills in the game, but making it AOE doesn’t really improve much. It probably doesn’t effect the weakness part of the skill either. I’d rather this add some effect to Splitblade that makes it more appealing to a non-condi build.
2) Shouts are still really unappealing. Removing the cast time on Guard makes the perma swiftness + regen build a little less tedious, but the skill still doesn’t do anything. The fact you can get perma regen with the warhorn trait now probably means the build is dead.
3) Invigorating Bond has always been pretty bad and boring. Why can’t it provide boons to go along with Lingering Magic? AOE boon depending on pet type would actually be pretty sweet for support.
4) Most Dangerous Game looks super awesome until you realize that it’s a lot of work/risk for just 8 stacks of might on 100% uptime. Maybe with Strength Runes it’s something, but I’d like to see the duration a bit more.
5) Light On Your Feet looks decent, but it sucks that it competes with Quick Draw, which is a fantastic shortbow trait.
6) Putting the two condition removal traits together is a huge nerf, but I think it’s better for build diversity. It was pretty hard to justify not running survival skills when you could use both, but now that it’s one or the other, you aren’t losing too much by taking Empathetic Bond over Wilderness Knowledge.

Overall, I think the changes are great and I’m excited to try out new builds. I usually play Ele or Ranger, so I have a good grasp on the impact of the changes for those classes, and Ranger made out much better.

All the changes seemed alright. There were 2 things I didn’t like:

1. We are pigeon holed into Wilderness Survival once again since its the only trait line that contains any decent condition clear trait.

2. SoTF/Wilderness Knowledge has been nerfed. You no longer gain Sharpening Stones when your foe is below 50% hp.

I think I am really gonna hold off judgment until it goes live, to see how my build that I just reworked is effected by the changes.

After upgrading to the Verata’s LB, S, and D, as well as all 6 pieces of Verata’s gear….I’m hoping for not too many tweaks.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that I will be pleasantly surprised.

Reading through the changes is a bit disheartening, but I need to see how they are in action.

Sol.4310:

~snip~
There are many options start thinking outside the box, this time round they gave us some real trait synergy.

There is plenty of synergy, yes. Like rejuvenation and MDG, perfection right there…
If MDG was a proc at 50% for multiple might stacks, it would be good for pvp, as it is, you need to stay under 50% for 8s to get the most out of it, and the most you get is only 8 stacks. Far too much risk for reward. If a thief can put you at 50% in seconds, he will also just kill you in a few seconds more. Which is why you want to heal up above 50% as fast as possible. Absurdity. You don’t actually want to stay under 50% to use a GM trait. A GM should function well on its own and not need others to synergize with merely to make it useful, like Enlargement or Instinctive Reaction. Don’t get me wrong, they are great together, but MDG on its own is bad, which means it is not GM worthy.

I think outside of the box more than anyone in the history of boxes mate it’s just not a GM trait, its Adept at best.

1. Merge Predator’s Instinct with Predator’s Onslaught. Open slot for an adept trait that doesn’t suck

2. Add back the opening strike on signet like they showed us in the AMA livestream. The revamp of Remorseless is a great way of playing around with the minor traits, but we’re pidgeon holed in to this one trait if we want any use out them outside the start of a fight. OS on signets was a great idea – OS would have been stronger, and SotH would have benefited massively from it.

3. Revert the shortbow trait LOYF. The old one was okay, there was no reason to make it worse or trying to make it “more interesting” or whatever the added damage after dodging is supposed to be.

4. MDG isn’t GM worthy. Period. I wasn’t even a fan of it as an adept trait, but as an adept trait it wasn’t nearly as underwhelming as it is now. I don’t see why anyone would pick it over Quick Draw, or even LOYF if you’re running shortbow. The concept is allright, but what they’re doing is the exact the same thing they did when adding Strider’s Defense back in the days. It isn’t build defining, it’s just a niche yolo trait that is nowhere good enough to defend a spot as a GM – just like Strider’s Defense was.

5. Strider’s Defense: quick fix, add back the damage modifier and the projectile block proc and swap it with MDG. Probably better alternatives, but it’s an obvious improvement nevertheless.

6. Condi and WS: I actually don’t mind their placement (although I see why most people do), but EB is still underwhelming as a GM trait and WK lost sharpening stones for no reason. Poison Master is dead at its current location.

7. Invigorating Bond: No, Anet, for the last time, a 2k heal on a 20 second cooldown isn’t GM worthy. It never was.

I wanna see traps and spirits in action before making up my mind, but I’m not too excited about the spirits. Traps might be good.

The BM line is actually pretty decent at this point compared to the current one. Thumbs up. The removal of 20 % recharge on pet skills from one of the minors kinda sucks, but oh well.

I’d be more comfortable with how mediocre this all is if they updated the range on pc and pet interaction. 600 just doesn’t cut it.

If Predator’s Instinct functionality is merged with Predator’s Onslaught, they can change PI’s functionality to; Whenever you hit with an Opening Strike, you lose one condition. And I would be very happy.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If Predator’s Instinct functionality is merged with Predator’s Onslaught, they can change PI’s functionality to; Whenever you hit with an Opening Strike, you lose one condition. And I would be very happy.

An adept trait dependent on a GM trait for working at all isn’t really that good.. at all. Needs something else.

I still hope that one day Maul will become a blast finisher.

• for spirits I disagree that the movement change is bad for them in pve, on the contrary, I think it is superb. You can now place your spirit in a safe spot then when the engagement is over, sacrifice it away to be resummoned on the next big fight. yes if you’re doing a min/max speed clear team they aren’t going to wait on you and you won’t be welcome, but how is that different than now? That problem lies in the players, not the mechanics of the class. I do think their effect areas need to be increased drastically as a baseline now, but maybe we can petition for that change before release. The actives on them were always “meh” anyway so I care not for changes on those. I do agree that sacrificing the elite spirit was a big mess up. It should not be sacrificeable unless they chop that cd on it by a huge margin.

• Traps…well overall the initial changes aren’t bad. I really don’t even mind an arming time because it puts them back into the old style of trap play from GW1 where you had to plan out your fights instead of just spamming out the skills for nukes. I was not happy with removal of ground target, we’ll have to see how badly it hurts this build. I too agree each trap needs some extra mechanic to ensure they actually get to work rather than the person just walking out of them unscathed. Puting a KD on spike trap was a smart move in the right direction.

• Our survivability and support are through the roof now- minus the elite spirit- especially with all those warhorn traits. Very nicely done.

• condi cleanse is the only weak spot with survivability, and the main glaring problem ranger has suffered from for far too long. I can understand them wanting to keep it as a risk vs reward thing for the traits, but if we could get another condi removal pet besides that stupid bear this might not be such an issue.

• striders change was nice, I still don’t think that trait warrants grandmaster but i have no viable solutions for swapping it around.

• Moment of clarity- For anyone crying about the tooltip change: it was not nerfed, only reworded to be more accurate. It NEVER gave +150% damage, it just increased your total damage to 150%- so in other words you got a 50% boost, exactly how they reworded it. As far as it being in the line mainly meant for longbow, I relaly don’t see the problem with that but I do feel this could have been bundled with the Lb/Sb recharge trait rather than reworking that trait entirely

• Honed axes- yeah this one still makes me scratch my head. Why it still only gives ferocity is beyond me. Needs to be precision or just a flat crit chance increase.

• Overall the wilderness survival line changes are great, aside from the condi clear issue we are all aware of. I can find ways around it I’m sure but life would be much better if they would address that.

• Allies aide is gonna be HUGE. You can either stay there and double res with your pet for stoopid fast rezzes, or start it, let the pet finish while you defend. Much more viable option than either fumbling with that clumsy shout skill that rarely works right, or letting the pet “defend” while you rez someone which is laughable. I will be bringing this in a multitude of my builds.

• Invigorating bond….nope still not gonna take it, ever. Even on my pet support build. That ICD combined with low helaing is what kills it. Gotta choose one or the other. Lower the ICD or increase healing done per pulse.

• I love almost every single change to beastmastery line. Very well done indeed! One thing that does concern me though, and perhaps I missed it and someone can point me to it, but the stability trait for pets is gone now. There were builds that actually used that believe it or not. Not sure why it was removed?

• could have used a lot more Sb love.

Those were the biggest ones that stood out to me, wasn’t going to nitpick every single change until we can play it but overall it looks pretty solid. Some popular builds might come down a tad, not a huge issue but many more previously nonviable builds might now see some play.

edit: I mistakenly typed I wanted spirit ranges reduced…I may have played necro for far too long but I’m not THAT masochistic lol

can we wait to see druid specialization before we go crazy about what we do and don’t have?

Zatoichi.1049:

can we wait to see druid specialization before we go crazy about what we do and don’t have?

I suspect that druid specialisation will have a huge synergie with the nature magic one… or I hope so haha. Lingering magic is the minor trait that will be the key I think. Thats only if the druid goes with a supporting aproach that is…

I split my time fairly evenly between pvp and pve and I agree with almost all the things that have been said on this thread. The part I personally have a problem with is this(not with you but with Anets design choices):

Sol.4310:

Damage modifiers – This didn’t effect PvP side of the game, maybe PvE side but that’s about it, they gave us more damage with better trait synergy in terms of PvP.

Going back to Damage modifiers, seen as almost every ranger is required to take Wilderness Survival now, you might want to take look at, Refined Toxins: While you are above 90% health your strikes inflict 6s of poison. While your pet’s health is above 90% its strikes inflict 6s of poison. This trait has a 10 second internal cool down. Can’t say if it will be super effective in some fight vs things like Retaliation, but we will see.

We were just starting to get over the constant ranger hate in dungeons/fractals and now it’s going to come roaring back. we lost 35% in damage modifiers…25% of that we can get back with remorseless but only on one strike and it can only be refreshed on fury activation. we’re left with a whopping 10 modifier from steady focus.

Rangers been my main since Launch day and I’ve gone through all the changes with it and always said we had a place. This is the first time in all that time I’m seriously thinking of switching to an alt. we’re most likely going to get even better in pvp with the condi synergy and pet buffs so there’s something.

Hopefully Druid brings some damage but I seriously doubt it.

edit: predator’s onslaught is unchanged so you can choose between 10% on movement impeding conditions which bosses wipe of quickly or 25% on fury.

I didn’t even think about that, Prophet, since I don’t really PvE anymore.

I don’t understand why Anet hates us so much. Not hyperbole, I just don’t see how these updates can be viewed as anything other than a nerf and massive buffs to other professions. If we were the overwhelming meta in every game mode it might make more sense, but we’re not.

I think you need to go and theorycraft a little more Tragic, and run your numbers again. your paragraphs on traps and condi cleansing don’t make much sense to me.

Traps are going to be nasty. when complaining about traps, you guys conveniently leave out that we’re getting a spammable knockdown. you also leave out the fact that their condi damage was slightly buffed. finally you leave out the fact that everything you need to make traps useful is within one adept trait. Traps, wilderness survival, and pets are going to synergize beautifully. obviously u guys cant even fathom what we’ll be able to do running a standard condi bunker with a/d + s/t, in addition to having a 2s aoe stun and a scary pet, plus quickdraw, an aoe knockdown, strider’s defense with all the evades on sword, the poison stacks… all this within ONE build. if you cant see the strength in this, just delete your rangers guys. stop embarrassing yourselves.

I will also say again – it’s non-sensical to throw traps if they have a half second arming time. you just wont hit anyone as people will see the trap coming and move. it made sense when they exploded instantly like grenades, but that’s not a trap then is it? just place the trap down when youre on top of someone, you can chain-cc people with Spike + Beastly Warden, and if you run SB you can even stun them, and on top of those 3 you can finish it up with Entangle. otherwise, use the traps for area denial. place them down before the enemy sees you.

regarding condi cleanses, as Sol said, we have too much. no good ranger has ever needed WK + EB in the same build. ive been running Oakheart Salve instead of EB on live for about 6 months, Eurantian does the same im pretty sure. any additional condi cleansing is excessive and it gimps your build. WK now includes TU, and if that’s not enough you can go with SoR.

as ive stated multiple times, EB is basically for rangers who wont be able to equip any survival utilities. that’s why it’s there. im not saying IB doesn’t need buffs, it does. but EB cant and shouldn’t be available with WK in any build. it’s just ridiculous.

Other thoughts:

Strider’s Defense is actually good now, as a master. nothing underwhelming about 20% CD reduction on sword.

MDG and IB are probably the biggest fails. and I imagine LOYF was nerfed only because SB was probably way too strong with traps.

The problem we all have with it, mistsim, is not that we can’t run too different condi clear grandmasters, but that it forces a traitline on us.

I posted some off the top of my head solutions to “we have too much condi clear” a while back (which doesn’t even make sense to me, if you want to waste 2 grandmasters on condi clear, go for it.) Things like sprinkling 4 or 5 lesser condi clears throughout the trees and removing or changing the grandmasters. I can’t remember what else I came up with.

agreed. pvp-wise we’ll probably be in a good place with BM bunker builds and trap builds becoming really strong.
wvw won’t be bad either if your running one of these types of builds as well.
it’s going to get tough to run a zerk ranger in any game mode

20s with trait is hardly a spammable KD…

You are continually going on about condi bunker, by far the most boring way to play anything. That is why we do not like the changes. Boring play.

Sure, there is synergy, but it is hardly worth talking about when you look at all the nerfs we also got, then compare it all to what the other classes got. We were in need of the biggest buff of all.

There are a couple of nice builds now, good for some competitive play, PvE damage is totally nerfed, though.

EB and WK in the same build is hardly OP when you look at warrior or ele PvP meta.

Prophet.1584:

it’s going to get tough to run a zerk ranger in any game mode

there are no glassbows any more. now we’ll have quickdraw/WK LB rangers and there’s nothing glassy about em.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

20s with trait is hardly a spammable KD…

You are continually going on about condi bunker, by far the most boring way to play anything. That is why we do not like the changes. Boring play.

traps/BM: 0/6/6/0/6
condi bunker/BM: 0/0/6/6/6
power ranger/BM: 0/0/6/6/6
Remorseless Bearsword: 6/0/6/0/6 (your favourite right?)
new glassbow/BM: 6/6/0/0/6
quickdraw power LB (or GS frontline): 6/6/6/0/0
tanky traps: 0/6/6/6/0

im not going on about condi bunker at all. but yes it would be silly to not take the WS line. and 20s CD is basically spammable aoe KD. I think the only and best in the game.

warrior and ele pvp meta? and what is there to look at? i regularly kill shoutbows and cele d/d’s on my condi bunker build, theyre not OP just annoying. we do more damage than shoutbows, which is why being immune to condis with WK + EB + SoR would be OP.

mistsim.2748:

Prophet.1584:

it’s going to get tough to run a zerk ranger in any game mode

there are no glassbows any more. now we’ll have quickdraw/WK LB rangers and there’s nothing glassy about em.

but they won’t do nearly as much damage. ranger stopped being completely sub-optimal in dungeons when our lb+s/a damage became competitive AND we brought group buffs with spotter and frost spirit. Frost spirits nerfed to almost uselessness and our overall damage is going to go down considerably.

the added survivability might be great for the new content, we’ll have to wait and see, but the majority of the content that exists and isn’t likely to change is still all about how much damage you can dish out.

edit: basically we’re back to being a selfish profession

@Mistsim
I can see your point but the idea still persists.
Why isn’t anyone speccing for traps in sPvP now?
Because you were too vulnerable if you did. You couldn’t choose utilities for Condi Clear or Signet of the Stone, neither Lightning Reflexes because you were glued to traps and you couldn’t afford both Empathic Bond and Wilderness Survival.

And guess what’s going to be the very same problem again. Except the choice of both Wilderness Knowledge and Empathic bond now goes for every ranger out there.

It’s not like that AoE conditions and slight disruption isn’t good looking on paper. It’s just that I still can’t see it anywhere near competing the immortal elementalist with 4 blast finishers, AoE damage of the same (if not higher) scale but much better sustain and mobility. CC too. Elementalist just has to choose a weapon to get every single mechanic he might have wished for.

If you want one, you just have to dedicate 2 trait lines, 3 utilities, a pet, an Identity Card and a Bank Account and Last Will to get something that doesn’t even compare to stuff that meta classes already have baseline and you wouldn’t believe but it’s getting buffed further this update.

but with these changes you can go TU, 2 traps, Entangle and LR. between all the evades you have, short CD aoe stun, and the 3 survival skills, condis shouldn’t be a problem. all the while your pet is wrecking faces. it’s viable now to go bear as well for the extra condi cleanse and you still get the stun. you can go settler stats, rabid, or even dire. you can get HS for even more condi cleansing.

so explain to me how we’re vulnerable speccing into traps?

people aren’t doing traps now because you need 3 traits to make them functional, they do less damage, you don’t get the knockdown, you don’t have Beastly Warden, and you don’t have the buffed healing skills. does that make sense?

mistsim.2748:

Prophet.1584:

it’s going to get tough to run a zerk ranger in any game mode

there are no glassbows any more. now we’ll have quickdraw/WK LB rangers and there’s nothing glassy about em.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

20s with trait is hardly a spammable KD…

You are continually going on about condi bunker, by far the most boring way to play anything. That is why we do not like the changes. Boring play.

traps/BM: 0/6/6/0/6
condi bunker/BM: 0/0/6/6/6
power ranger/BM: 0/0/6/6/6
Remorseless Bearsword: 6/0/6/0/6 (your favourite right?)
new glassbow/BM: 6/6/0/0/6
quickdraw power LB (or GS frontline): 6/6/6/0/0
tanky traps: 0/6/6/6/0

im not going on about condi bunker at all. but yes it would be silly to not take the WS line. and 20s CD is basically spammable aoe KD. I think the only and best in the game.

warrior and ele pvp meta? and what is there to look at? i regularly kill shoutbows and cele d/d’s on my condi bunker build, theyre not OP just annoying. we do more damage than shoutbows, which is why being immune to condis with WK + EB + SoR would be OP.

Except the stats you will loose from traits. Because i overheard they will remove the stats you get from the traits line and give it back to equip. I dont know when it will hit.

@mistsim
Now that you mention it, you have the regeneration from Healing Spring buffed too. Okay, I take my words back. What you said makes perfect sense.

For a strange reason I didn’t think of the fact that with current functionality you invested into Prec and Fero stats and all the traits were blown there.
Yup, I can see the potential. I’ll correct myself in a second.

Few things:

(1)
Moment of Clarity also works with Shortbow’s #5. It mainly benefits from the +100% duration on the daze/stun as it doesn’t have any strong single-hit attacks … but you could interrupt with it, swap to Greatsword, Maul, Hilt Bash, Maul again … I have actually been playing around with non-standard builds lately on my Ranger and having such long dazes/stuns is really nice … people definitely don’t expect Shortbow / Greatsword, lol.

(2)
We don’t know how much more damage the traps are going to be doing directly per pulse yet … need to wait and see about that.

(3)
We still don’t know what the changes are going to be for getting stats only from gear. This could have some unforeseen effects. Without focusing on condition damage gear, getting 700 condition damage is not that difficult even with the current stats from gear.

(4)
I disagree that we will never see anything but WK as the GM for WS. I could see some people being fine with just Healing Spring and/or SoR for condition removal. Not everyone feels like 6,7,8,9, and 0 all need to be condition removal.

(5)
We’re not some “great support class” yet, but we did get some additional support options in the form of

• Marksmanship : Clarion Bond
• Skirmishing : Spotter
• Nature Magic : Vigorous Training
• Nature Magic : Windborne Notes
• Nature Magic : Nature’s Vengeance
• Nature Magic : Invigorating Bond

They vary in power, but they are options that can be improved via simple number tweaks … though I agree about spirits. I’m also very disappointed in what we’re seeing for them right now. On paper, it isn’t looking any better.

Traps and spirits…2 aspects that made me love ranger.
Now they are gone…and the end for my ranger is near

Sebrent.3625:

(3)
We still don’t know what the changes are going to be for getting stats only from gear. This could have some unforeseen effects. Without focusing on condition damage gear, getting 700 condition damage is not that difficult even with the current stats from gear.

Ya we do. It’s a 30% increase for exotics, and ascended will have another 10%.

link

Sebrent.3625:

Few things:

(1)
Moment of Clarity also works with Shortbow’s #5. It mainly benefits from the +100% duration on the daze/stun as it doesn’t have any strong single-hit attacks … but you could interrupt with it, swap to Greatsword, Maul, Hilt Bash, Maul again … I have actually been playing around with non-standard builds lately on my Ranger and having such long dazes/stuns is really nice … people definitely don’t expect Shortbow / Greatsword, lol.

…

Do you see the point here? You yourself said Shortbow doesn’t benefit from the trait. The stun duration is a stun duration. It would work regardless of the weapon. The trait has close to zero effect. 50% damage bonus damage is like bonus 200 bonus damage on shortbow on a 25 sec. CD. No point in having the bonus damage in the 1st place.

Maul and Path of Scars are the only abilities that can be considered a burst and are useful with this. Path of Scars cannot be triggered within the weapon set (and will trigger on useless low damage auto-attacks) and Maul has it’s own weapon interrupt.

The damage portion of the trait is wrong-made. However much you’ll try to defend it, it needs a change.

Fluffball.8307:

Sebrent.3625:

(3)
We still don’t know what the changes are going to be for getting stats only from gear. This could have some unforeseen effects. Without focusing on condition damage gear, getting 700 condition damage is not that difficult even with the current stats from gear.

Ya we do. It’s a 30% increase for exotics, and ascended will have another 10%.

link

So you tell me that ascended will be even more powerfull now?? Ewww… That sound like WvW will be a “pvp” mode(more like gear mode)…

Tragic Positive.9356:

Sebrent.3625:

Few things:

(1)
Moment of Clarity also works with Shortbow’s #5. It mainly benefits from the +100% duration on the daze/stun as it doesn’t have any strong single-hit attacks … but you could interrupt with it, swap to Greatsword, Maul, Hilt Bash, Maul again … I have actually been playing around with non-standard builds lately on my Ranger and having such long dazes/stuns is really nice … people definitely don’t expect Shortbow / Greatsword, lol.

…

Do you see the point here? You yourself said Shortbow doesn’t benefit from the trait. The stun duration is a stun duration. It would work regardless of the weapon. The trait has close to zero effect. 50% damage bonus damage is like bonus 200 bonus damage on shortbow on a 25 sec. CD. No point in having the bonus damage in the 1st place.

Maul and Path of Scars are the only abilities that can be considered a burst and are useful with this. Path of Scars cannot be triggered within the weapon set (and will trigger on useless low damage auto-attacks) and Maul has it’s own weapon interrupt.

The damage portion of the trait is wrong-made. However much you’ll try to defend it, it needs a change.

Actually the MoC dmg bonus is pet exclusive now…

Klonko.8341:

Actually the MoC dmg bonus is pet exclusive now…

“When you interrupt a foe, you and your pets’ next attack deal 50% more damage. Your daze and stun durations are increased by 100%.” before it said 150% but that was an error. it was always 50%, so MoC is basically unchanged.

We lost the 10% flat damage bonus when flanking from Hunters tactics but got a 10% critical chance increase. Its a bit worse for a pure power build, but also different as it has more uses across multiple build setups.

For a normal PvE build you never got the 5% bonus from boons in NM or went into WS anyway, so who cares. But now with barkskin working off of your HP the pet is in a much better place for large scale world events.

The spike got buffed massively with Quick draw and Zephyr speed.

For dungeon runs i forsee- MM, Skirmishing and BM

-Clarion bond, steady aim, predators onslaught/remorseless

-Trappers expertise (For HS and maybe one more trap), spotter and quick draw

-Companions might, GS trait/wilting strike, zephyr speed

We will see how the math goes on remorseless and PO to see which is better. Remember that RaO gives you fury every 3 seconds so thats a potential to refresh Opening strikes , which would be 100% crits every 3 seconds, and the OStrikes would do 25% more damage (not counting 25 vuln stacks as anyone can do it pretty much nowadays)

They should fire whoever was responsible for the Ranger changes. Or at least replace them with someone who actually understands the class. They are absolutely appalling.

Very nice post and i agree with all of it.
Just one reminder:
We lost several trait that also were used because they were very impportant:

• Off hand training Now off hand axe lost all the range. Also the split the weapons traits so now if you only want the CD redunction and larger range in torch and dagger you has to chosse two different trait lines.
  This is a nerf considering that other classes even got the opposite. Mediguardian only need to use 1 trait point to have all the bennefits of 3 actual traits.

• Keen Edge We lost the bleeds it could give on crits.
• Speed Training this basic trait to make pets faster is lost. At least i can’t find it and it is one of the most important for pets.
• Commanding Voice is this one available after the patch? I mean having a lot of new effects when F2 and not being able to reduce the CD (that could be even 40 secs) is silly.

Those ones are the ones i can think of right now. But i’m pretty sure they deleted more.
Instead they give us some shiny trash and expect us to not notice (like the +150 point in pets attributes)