Guild Wars 2

MashMash.1645:

They should fire whoever was responsible for the Ranger changes. Or at least replace them with someone who actually understands the class. They are absolutely appalling.

youre are new and likely have little understanding of the profession. no one blames you for that as this is a safe environment. do try to keep your feedback constructive though. rangers will be very strong with these changes, and most experienced rangers will agree with that.

mistsim.2748:

MashMash.1645:

They should fire whoever was responsible for the Ranger changes. Or at least replace them with someone who actually understands the class. They are absolutely appalling.

youre are new and likely have little understanding of the profession. no one blames you for that as this is a safe environment. do try to keep your feedback constructive though. rangers will be very strong with these changes, and most experienced rangers will agree with that.

Obviusly you haven’t read the forum were all the experienced rangers are complaining about the balance.
I agree with the MashMash. They should put someone that actually play with the ranger to redesign the profession. A guy that only seems to play with engie is not suitable for the job.

Very nice post and i agree with all of it.
Just one reminder:
We lost several trait that also were used because they were very impportant:

Off hand training Now off hand axe lost all the range. Also the split the weapons traits so now if you only want the CD redunction and larger range in torch and dagger you has to chosse two different trait lines.
This is a nerf considering that other classes even got the opposite. Mediguardian only need to use 1 trait point to have all the bennefits of 3 actual traits.

Keen Edge We lost the bleeds it could give on crits.
Speed Training this basic trait to make pets faster is lost. At least i can’t find it and it is one of the most important for pets.
Commanding Voice is this one available after the patch? I mean having a lot of new effects when F2 and not being able to reduce the CD (that could be even 40 secs) is silly.

Those ones are the ones i can think of right now. But i’m pretty sure they deleted more.
Instead they give us some shiny trash and expect us to not notice (like the +150 point in pets attributes)

They might have not mentioned it but it seems like off-hand weapon range was buffed baseline. Someone said that database had those increased numbers. If it isn’t the case, that’s pretty sad.

Speed for pets is a 3rd minor trait in Beast Master hand in hand with +30% crit damage.

mistsim.2748:

Klonko.8341:

Actually the MoC dmg bonus is pet exclusive now…

“When you interrupt a foe, you and your pets’ next attack deal 50% more damage. Your daze and stun durations are increased by 100%.” before it said 150% but that was an error. it was always 50%, so MoC is basically unchanged.

My bad I read that wrong…

Tragic Positive.9356:

They might have not mentioned it but it seems like off-hand weapon range was buffed baseline. Someone said that database had those increased numbers. If it isn’t the case, that’s pretty sad.

Speed for pets is a 3rd minor trait in Beast Master hand in hand with +30% crit damage.

They bring Pet Prowess your pets move faster.
I mean we miss the two most important BM traits in game right now: the one that reduce the CD in pet skills (F2) and the ones that make our pets attack faster.
Adept – Speed Training – Reduces recharge on pet skills.

ANOTHER MASSIVE NERF

anduriell.6280:

Tragic Positive.9356:

They might have not mentioned it but it seems like off-hand weapon range was buffed baseline. Someone said that database had those increased numbers. If it isn’t the case, that’s pretty sad.

Speed for pets is a 3rd minor trait in Beast Master hand in hand with +30% crit damage.

They bring Pet Prowess your pets move faster.
I mean we miss the two most important BM traits in game right now: the one that reduce the CD in pet skills (F2) and the ones that make our pets attack faster.
Adept – Speed Training – Reduces recharge on pet skills.

ANOTHER MASSIVE NERF

None made the pet attack faster, only the recharge on their ability… Which was a bit lackluster since they get them back after a pet swap…

Klonko.8341:

anduriell.6280:

Tragic Positive.9356:

They might have not mentioned it but it seems like off-hand weapon range was buffed baseline. Someone said that database had those increased numbers. If it isn’t the case, that’s pretty sad.

Speed for pets is a 3rd minor trait in Beast Master hand in hand with +30% crit damage.

They bring Pet Prowess your pets move faster.
I mean we miss the two most important BM traits in game right now: the one that reduce the CD in pet skills (F2) and the ones that make our pets attack faster.
Adept – Speed Training – Reduces recharge on pet skills.

ANOTHER MASSIVE NERF

None made the pet attack faster, only the recharge on their ability… Which was a bit lackluster since they get them back after a pet swap…

Ok i agree and probably the trait was also bugged. But in theory this could make your moas to cast the healing streech more often, the canines the charge to knockdown and so on.
So I think it like something missing so another nerf. And this one having in mind they give a lot of addictions to the effect from the F2 skill also it is a nerfing ranger 101

anduriell.6280:

Tragic Positive.9356:

They might have not mentioned it but it seems like off-hand weapon range was buffed baseline. Someone said that database had those increased numbers. If it isn’t the case, that’s pretty sad.

Speed for pets is a 3rd minor trait in Beast Master hand in hand with +30% crit damage.

They bring Pet Prowess your pets move faster.
I mean we miss the two most important BM traits in game right now: the one that reduce the CD in pet skills (F2) and the ones that make our pets attack faster.
Adept – Speed Training – Reduces recharge on pet skills.

ANOTHER MASSIVE NERF

Not that massive. Our pets were buffed in predator’s onslaught, sharpened edges affect our pet now, too. Our pets will deal 10% more damage while we are above 90% hp.

And I don’t remember our pets attacking faster. There is no trait even today that makes our pet attack faster (except quickness). If you mean F2, I already told you to look at Minor Traits. http://imgur.com/a/xr2FQ

EDIT: If the ability had 40 second cooldown before the trait, it would have 36 second after the trait. The difference is so unbelievable that I might not fall asleep tonight. I don’t think I’ll miss it.

anduriell.6280:

Very nice post and i agree with all of it.
Just one reminder:
We lost several trait that also were used because they were very impportant:

• Off hand training Now off hand axe lost all the range. Also the split the weapons traits so now if you only want the CD redunction and larger range in torch and dagger you has to chosse two different trait lines.
  This is a nerf considering that other classes even got the opposite. Mediguardian only need to use 1 trait point to have all the bennefits of 3 actual traits.

• Keen Edge We lost the bleeds it could give on crits.
• Speed Training this basic trait to make pets faster is lost. At least i can’t find it and it is one of the most important for pets.
• Commanding Voice is this one available after the patch? I mean having a lot of new effects when F2 and not being able to reduce the CD (that could be even 40 secs) is silly.

Those ones are the ones i can think of right now. But i’m pretty sure they deleted more.
Instead they give us some shiny trash and expect us to not notice (like the +150 point in pets attributes)

Offhand Skill Ranges
They didn’t include the baselined 1,500 range on the Longbow in those notes either, but they had shown last time that Longbow and the off-hand weapons were getting those increased ranged baselined. I assume that hasn’t changed and think they just did a sloppy job of gathering the changeset for Ranger in this regard … but I can somewhat understand given the large amount of changes occurring.

If I’m wrong, I can see some rather angry rangers … myself included

Keen Edge
Yep, this trait disappeared. However, it was 5 bleeds once every kitten … averages to 1 bleed every 9s. That’s not much to cry over.

Speed Training
Look under Beastmastery minor traits at “Pack Alpha”. It says “Pet Skills”, not “Pet F2 Skills”. I believe it affects all pet skills; both F2 and non-F2.

Commanding Voice
Same as with Speed Training … Look under Beastmastery minor traits at “Pack Alpha”. It says “Pet Skills”, not “Pet F2 Skills”. I believe it affects all pet skills; both F2 and non-F2.

+150 Points to Pet Attributes
This isn’t “shiny trash”. This is part of removing stats from the Specializations.
With the current trait system, we gained +50 to those pet attributes per point put into Beastmastery. So putting 3 points into Beastmastery gave you +150 to each of those pet attributes. 6 points into Beastmastery gave you +300.

You may have noticed they reduced the cooldowns on other classes mechanics by 15% and reduce them by another 15% if they take that specialization? They are doing the same thing with Beastmastery. You now get those +150 baselined and just receive the additional +150 if you take Beastmastery.

It is a nice buff for those builds that never took Beastmastery. It is also a buff for any build that took beastmastery before but didn’t put 6 points into it.

Please figure out the logic behind changes before you run your mouth. Again, you provided an opinion without actually understanding the changes. This is why I dislike your posts. Focus on understanding more than on typing. Your posts throughout the forums continue to display an obvious lack of understanding of the Ranger class.

anduriell.6280:

Klonko.8341:

anduriell.6280:

Tragic Positive.9356:

They might have not mentioned it but it seems like off-hand weapon range was buffed baseline. Someone said that database had those increased numbers. If it isn’t the case, that’s pretty sad.

Speed for pets is a 3rd minor trait in Beast Master hand in hand with +30% crit damage.

They bring Pet Prowess your pets move faster.
I mean we miss the two most important BM traits in game right now: the one that reduce the CD in pet skills (F2) and the ones that make our pets attack faster.
Adept – Speed Training – Reduces recharge on pet skills.

ANOTHER MASSIVE NERF

None made the pet attack faster, only the recharge on their ability… Which was a bit lackluster since they get them back after a pet swap…

Ok i agree and probably the trait was also bugged. But in theory this could make your moas to cast the healing streech more often, the canines the charge to knockdown and so on.
So I think it like something missing so another nerf. And this one having in mind they give a lot of addictions to the effect from the F2 skill also it is a nerfing ranger 101

Yeah but if you want to apply alot of time the condis from BM trait times, you better go with an hawk/eagle to put this to work because of the short cd.

As for the moas and such, the 20% on attack was only if you dont pet swap alot. Which is not really viable in pvp/wvw (what i do mainly). And moas as well as bear healing ability only trigger when their health is low and not when the ranger is low. That would be one thing to improve and making it a water field. Like when ranger reach 50% → healing screech + water field for 1-2 sec, the time to blast it, thus improving pet/ranger synergie.

Sebrent.3625:

anduriell.6280:

Very nice post and i agree with all of it.
Just one reminder:
We lost several trait that also were used because they were very impportant:

• Off hand training Now off hand axe lost all the range. Also the split the weapons traits so now if you only want the CD redunction and larger range in torch and dagger you has to chosse two different trait lines.
  This is a nerf considering that other classes even got the opposite. Mediguardian only need to use 1 trait point to have all the bennefits of 3 actual traits.

• Keen Edge We lost the bleeds it could give on crits.
• Speed Training this basic trait to make pets faster is lost. At least i can’t find it and it is one of the most important for pets.
• Commanding Voice is this one available after the patch? I mean having a lot of new effects when F2 and not being able to reduce the CD (that could be even 40 secs) is silly.

Those ones are the ones i can think of right now. But i’m pretty sure they deleted more.
Instead they give us some shiny trash and expect us to not notice (like the +150 point in pets attributes)

Offhand Skill Ranges
They didn’t include the baselined 1,500 range on the Longbow in those notes either, but they had shown last time that Longbow and the off-hand weapons were getting those increased ranged baselined. I assume that hasn’t changed and think they just did a sloppy job of gathering the changeset for Ranger in this regard … but I can somewhat understand given the large amount of changes occurring.

If I’m wrong, I can see some rather angry rangers … myself included

Keen Edge
Yep, this trait disappeared. However, it was 5 bleeds once every kitten … averages to 1 bleed every 9s. That’s not much to cry over.

Speed Training
Look under Beastmastery minor traits at “Pack Alpha”. It says “Pet Skills”, not “Pet F2 Skills”. I believe it affects all pet skills; both F2 and non-F2.

Commanding Voice
Same as with Speed Training … Look under Beastmastery minor traits at “Pack Alpha”. It says “Pet Skills”, not “Pet F2 Skills”. I believe it affects all pet skills; both F2 and non-F2.

+150 Points to Pet Attributes
This isn’t “shiny trash”. This is part of removing stats from the Specializations.
With the current trait system, we gained +50 to those pet attributes per point put into Beastmastery. So putting 3 points into Beastmastery gave you +150 to each of those pet attributes. 6 points into Beastmastery gave you +300.

You may have noticed they reduced the cooldowns on other classes mechanics by 15% and reduce them by another 15% if they take that specialization? They are doing the same thing with Beastmastery. You now get those +150 baselined and just receive the additional +150 if you take Beastmastery.

It is a nice buff for those builds that never took Beastmastery. It is also a buff for any build that took beastmastery before but didn’t put 6 points into it.

Please figure out the logic behind changes before you run your mouth. Again, you provided an opinion without actually understanding the changes. This is why I dislike your posts. Focus on understanding more than on typing. Your posts throughout the forums continue to display an obvious lack of understanding of the Ranger class.

The +150 points in pets attributes is because the trait line will not give those stats points you get now with the trait line. Simple as that. 300 total, same as the actual trait line. So nothing new there.

They did talk about the 1500 range during the ready up, almost at the begining. They did not say anything about offhand training range so please keep droping i imagine like they are facts. Once someone from Anet let us know i’ll believe.

They talk about Pets Skills, right. I can assure you they are talking about F2 and not the pets skills itself. In my deffense i didn’t see that detail but again i miss something it was there before, although in this case is not that massive (is woas only 10%) it is still a nerf.

Again you keep misleading with your comments with wrong information. As i said before you don’t like ppl correcting you and that’s fine by me. You can show yourself as much sore about my comments as you may enjoy.

Kiddo, when you correct me with an actual fact, then you can talk. Until then, you keep saying that without a single instance of it ever happening.

My dislike is strictly due to the fact that you constantly complaining about things with incorrect info … like a lack of evades on ranger skills … or a lack of ranger sustain.

Or you simply post doom and gloom with nothing to back it up.

If you disagree, feel free to provide a link to something that disproves this … your post history says it all and very strongly supports what I’m saying.

The +150 is something new and quite nice.

• Any build that doesn’t take Beastmastery will still have +150 to all pet stats.
• Any build that does take Beastmastery will have +300 to all pet stats (150 + 150)

For several builds never put 0 to 2 points into Beastmastery, they all get a stronger pet. Even if they don’t take Beastmastery now.

For several builds that only put 3 points into Beastmastery, they get the same strength pet but now don’t have to take Beastmastery to get it.

For several builds that put 3 to 5 points into Beastmastery, they all get a stronger pet if they continue to take Beastmastery.

It isn’t nothing and it isn’t trash. Feel free to look back at my very old post on Beastmastery Math:

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Beastmastery-Math/first

This will explain to you how nice those extra points are for our Ranger Pets … though I’m sure you won’t look, won’t read, and will continue to complain without actually understanding the stuff you’re complaining about … par for the course and all.

Sebrent.3625:

Kiddo, when you correct me with an actual fact, then you can talk. Until then, you keep saying that without a single instance of it ever happening.

My dislike is strictly due to the fact that you constantly complaining about things with incorrect info … like a lack of evades on ranger skills … or a lack of ranger sustain.

Or you simply post doom and gloom with nothing to back it up.

If you disagree, feel free to provide a link to something that disproves this … your post history says it all and very strongly supports what I’m saying.

The +150 is something new and quite nice.

• Any build that doesn’t take Beastmastery will still have +150 to all pet stats.
• Any build that does take Beastmastery will have +300 to all pet stats (150 + 150)

For several builds never put 0 to 2 points into Beastmastery, they all get a stronger pet. Even if they don’t take Beastmastery now.

For several builds that only put 3 points into Beastmastery, they get the same strength pet but now don’t have to take Beastmastery to get it.

For several builds that put 3 to 5 points into Beastmastery, they all get a stronger pet if they continue to take Beastmastery.

It isn’t nothing and it isn’t trash. Feel free to look back at my very old post on Beastmastery Math:

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Beastmastery-Math/first

This will explain to you how nice those extra points are for our Ranger Pets … though I’m sure you won’t look, won’t read, and will continue to complain without actually understanding the stuff you’re complaining about … par for the course and all.

I’ve been correcting you all the time with actual facts, it’s you who is denying the reality.

Don’t get me wrong the best trait line we have now it seems to be BM. Only because of the new traits that affect F2 in pets. And with that i don’t mean that line is even good compared to the other professions.

The increase attributes i see like shiny trash. Why? because is like the 1500 + speed baseline for LB. It is something it should be there from the beginning. Increase attributes should improve our pets same way as Marksmanship, they should be meaningful. The new taunt could be a good example of what we need.

Probably most rangers will find out that we will be lock in WS and BM because the other trait lines or skills associated to them simply don’t work against other professions that are all rounded up.

I actually see a lot of competitive value to the changes and really think that rangers are getting overall buffed, even though, just as I had no hope for traps or spirits, I was right in that regard because neither option is even remotely competitive now.

I actually haven’t even finished writing out all the new potential build combinations that would have decent enough working parts to work in competitive play, but I do think that I’ve been able to see the most promising options available so far so I’ll list those off as examples:

Power: While there will be higher damage builds, the reason why zerker ranger (and mesmer and necro and etc) struggle in the metagame is the prevalence of the (now superbuffed) Panic Strike thief build combined with the thieves insane, untouched mobility, allowing thieves to eat most zerker builds alive and keep them constantly dead and out of the match. Rangers, however, compared to the other classes that will still be held out of the meta by thieves, will be able to use:
6/0/6/6/0:
Clarion Bond Moment of Clarity Remorseless
Oakheart Salve Shared Anguish Wilderness Knowledge
Bountiful Hunter Windborne Notes Protective Ward

We’re looking at a build that covers that weakness of why zerker ranger is currently not a part of the meta, which is the ability to survive and even 1v1 common zerker metabuilds if necessary (thief and guardian), and bring the team utility that’s been lacking, ESPECIALLY perma-fury. It definitely has the tools it needs to compete within the current and potential future metagame (which won’t really see many builds change on any of the meta classes with the next patch except for engis). The weapons for this could be LB and blade (GS, Sword/Warhorn, Sword/Dagger, etc).

On the other hand, we have a few options for conditions, especially with Skirmishing making “evasion tank” builds so capable:
6/6/6/0/0
Clarion Bond Brutal Seals Remorseless
Sharpened Edges Hidden Barbs Quickdraw
Oakheart Salve Ambidexterity Wilderness Survival

This is the new bleeder build, and it has some serious potential between Hidden Barbs and the changes to vulnerability. If not running Rabid, switch Sharpened Edges to Primal Reflexes. Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch or the reverse (Sword/Dagger Axe/Torch). Quickdraw makes evasive weapon skills abundant, and if taking primal reflexes, the amount of sheer evasion is going to be incredibly potent. And if somehow, this build doesn’t have enough survival:
0/6/6/6/0
Primal Reflexes Hidden Barbs Quickdraw
Oakheart Salve Ambidexterity Wilderness Survival
Bountiful Hunter Vigorous Training Protective Ward

Honestly, what’s going to be able to kill you on something like this? The other build is the more optimal split between offense and defense, but really, the NM investment pretty much solidifies that no other individual should be able to kill you, assuming equal skill.

I see these builds having a fighting chance at team slots in the metagame.

@anduriell.6280:
If you’ve been correcting me all the time, it should be trivial to provide a link as evidence then, eh? I can think of one time you tried and said Natural Regeneration only heals the Ranger Pet … despite the fact that that’s a tooltip error and it actually does heal the Ranger … which myself and several others informed you of.

There’s also that time you said Ranger’s didn’t have much evade on their weapons and I provided you with a list of all our evades on our weapons … seems that you have things in reverse … but I’m not surprised.

Beastmastery provides the highest up-time on Quickness (aside from Possibly Mesmer with Quickness on Interrupt) via pet swapping. I’ve shown the math for this before in several Ranger threads.

Beastmastery provides stronger pets and can make pets even stronger or more provide regen/swiftness or provide more CC. It is quite powerful.

What precisely are you talking about that the other classes have as options that makes you think the Ranger options are so abysmal? You don’t specify. You just make a broad stroke statement with nothing to support it … as usual.

<edit>
Look at jcbroe’s post here.

He provides his opinion and logical reasons for it.

@jcbroe:
I look forward to seeing what other builds you come up with … though I think we’ll have to see how the meta shifts (or possibly even have some Ranger builds shift it) to see where things ultimately settle and what they means for us. Agree?

Sebrent.3625:

What precisely are you talking about that the other classes have as options that makes you think the Ranger options are so abysmal? You don’t specify. You just make a broad stroke statement with nothing to support it … as usual.

I’ll explain this because i see you are blind to arguments from others:
Because the point is not complain about other classes, the other professions are fine and after the balance will be better. The point here is to get as good as them, not better and absolutely not as crappyas we are right now.
About the Nature healing, if it’s written like that and Anet didn’t change it there is no reason that i should take what you say as official. Even you can understand that point i hope.

I play with guard also (medi-guard) and with the lastes changes (talking about i remember):
With 1 triat (GM) i take the value of 3 actual traits (1 GM as well) so i have the rest of the line free to choose another traits like strengh in numbers that is very nice (spotter but with toughness)
Now in Zeal i can have the buff of damage in scepter(in form of might) AND buff in GS. Right now i have to choose.
The change the tomes for a shout (very usefull and nice) and a signet (healing AoE and full healing AoE in active)
And so on i don’t remember now.

Necro got nice changes as well although i didn’t look deep enough to make up a build (i haven’t touched necro from a long time) .

None of them got the same nerfs we got, and all of them got a very necessary buffs to compete against the new professions.
Seeing the changes they did to ranger to make it competitive against its new specialisation i foresee the druid will be an utterly rubbish

Now again i’ve proven you are wrong and you misinformation is not beneficial to anyone. I know you are happy with all the buffs in your engie (have you seen the new medkit?) and i’m happy for you too. Just please stop saying trash and focus in the actual reality.

How in the world did your jibberish “prove me wrong” ?

You mentioned some trait changes other classes got, that you don’t remember them all at the moment, and then just stated that they weren’t nerfed like Ranger. There was not logic. No reasoning. No real even facts other than stating something and then making a conclusion without any real connection between the two.

All you did is what you always do … provide nothing but a fart in the wind.

Just as other classes, like those you mentioned, had multiple traits combined into single traits … so too did the Ranger? Look at Ranger traits for Survival, Longbow, Greatsword, Pets Movement/Ferocity/Swap_Recharge/Skill_Recharge, etc.. These are just a few of the example of traits that used to be several disparate traits that are now single traits that combine them all.

Sebrent.3625:

How in the world did your jibberish “prove me wrong” ?

You mentioned some trait changes other classes got, that you don’t remember them all at the moment, and then just stated that they weren’t nerfed like Ranger. There was not logic. No reasoning. No real even facts other than stating something and then making a conclusion without any real connection between the two.

All you did is what you always do … provide nothing but a fart in the wind.

Just as other classes, like those you mentioned, had multiple traits combined into single traits … so too did the Ranger? Look at Ranger traits for Survival, Longbow, Greatsword, Pets Movement/Ferocity/Swap_Recharge/Skill_Recharge, etc.. These are just a few of the example of traits that used to be several disparate traits that are now single traits that combine them all.

Again i’ve shown you how mediguard got much more powerfull rigth now and you keep talking trash. You are free to go back to your main engie.

anduriell.6280:

• Speed Training this basic trait to make pets faster is lost. At least i can’t find it and it is one of the most important for pets.

Beastmaster, adept trait, Pet’s Prowess: Your pets move 30 faster and gain up to 300 ferocity.

anduriell.6280:

Again i’ve shown you how mediguard got much more powerfull rigth now and you keep talking trash. You are free to go back to your main engie.

(1)
How did you “prove” how mediguard is more powerful right now? You showed no proof whatsoever. You just stated some trait changes … nothing more.

(2)
Engineer is most definitely not my main. How many times do I need to show that I’ve been here playing Ranger since 2013?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Beastmastery-Math/first

Can you read that? It’s from April 4th, 2013.
I assume you can’t do the math, but that’s over 2 years ago and there are several others buried in this subforum’s history by me that are from back then and even earlier.

Mercy runes are my favourite terrible rune decision and the revival rate with Allies’ Aid will simply be amazing. Normally I run it with Healer’s Celerity in a Beastmaster build, go about picking up my allies without stopping my main damage/pressure. If the trait doesn’t suffer search and rescue’s cooldown it’ll be so much better than healer’s celerity, but if it does the situation where I need and can get my pet to res someone with me won’t be very often.

Similarly, while I appreciate the theme of most dangerous game, it seems like instinctive reaction and enlargement are better suited to the turnabout strategy. They seem like they have synergy with MDG, but MDG doesn’t really do anything until you’ve sat below 50% health for long enough to lose the quickness, by which point the enlargement is nearly over. The turnabout Ranger is cool, but it’s better suited to using Quickdraw and moment of clarity to burst someone down with a remorseless double mauling as soon as you hit 50%.

Spirits I definitely want to play with before I make a judgement, but my first thoughts are simply that a 30 seconds cooldown is way too long.

@Sebrent;

While I do agree in the sense that nothing is certain until it’s certain, looking through all of the changes, I think we can readily predict what each individual classes meta-build will be, at least to the degree that we’ll be able to kitten the competition.
Eles: Arcane and Water will still be cookie cutter. The choice of the 3rd will depend on weapon choice, but the builds won’t ultimately play different than how the builds currently perform.
Guardians: Valor and Virtues with the optional 3rd, still mediguard. It’ll be a bit more potent, but it will still be the same build we’re used to seeing.
Mesmer: still Domination and Dueling shatters with an optional 3rd depending on weapon choice (chaos for staff, illusions for sword/torch, and of course always GS)
Necro: power will probably be spite, blood magic, and soul reaping. Condi will be Curses and Soul Reaping for certain, with an optional third.
Thief: Deadly Arts and Trickery with either Shadow Arts or Acrobatics, although an argument could be made for Critical Strikes, even though that sacrifices much needed condi-removal. Still backstab, although an gimmicky S/D build could arise, but either will play equivalently to currently.

Warrior and Engineer are where it gets interesting.
Warrior: Shoutbow will be stronger than ever utility wise, but loses some of its capabilities from the celestial nerf. However, it will have more utility potency with Tactics, Defense, and Discipline than ever. BUT, it gets more damage options from traits to the point where power/zerk warrior can make a real comeback with Strength, Defense, and Discipline. It could potentially return us to a double warrior meta.
Engineer: Engineer, on the other hand, has their options more spread out than previously and is the biggest wildcard imo. Firearms is almost a certainty regardless of the final build, but are engis going to go power or condi, is HGH coming back or are kit heavy builds here to stay. Really, engineers are the biggest variable right now.

The biggest unknown is team composition though. Is it going to be more damage oriented or more tanky oriented.

Regardless, Rangers definitely have a fighting chance this time around, really no matter where the meta settles.

It’s just that people here seem to think that this was supposed to be some huge, crazy, foundation of the game shaking balance patch, when all it’s ever been is a revamp to lay down the groundwork for the arrival of elite specializations with HoT, and THEN I think we’ll see some real shake-ups in the metagame.

I will openly admit though that I’m just speculating and providing and opinion lol. I mean, I remember laughing at spirit builds and then without any additional buffs or changes from that point, spirit builds shocked me and went on to become meta and the most despised build in competitive play lol, so anything can happen.

I 100% don’t see full trap builds getting any high end play though. I mean… Bonfire is STILL better than flame trap lol, and spike trap seems like the only one worth anything.

@jcbroe: what do you think about where the ranger will fall in the dungeon meta? I definitely agree with you on the idea that ranger is going to be in a good place in pvp. I can see a few builds already that’ll have strong synergy and team support however a lot of that is gained by sacrificing power damage. I’m not sure if those builds or anything like it will transfer to pve.

jcbroe
There is one build, though that I believe has more potential then ever.

Sniper Ranger, that is.
You already know that our only weakness are teleporting classes that can sneak behind your back. Well guess what happens if they (by any chance) step on a spike trap that slaps them with a knockdown that will allow you to smack the hell out of them with Quick Draw Greatsword options.

But here is the twist. If you pay close attention, you’ll notice that Marksmanship… Does not really offer that much for Longbow apart from it’s Last Grandmaster trait.

Think of it this way: Full Zerk setup, Longbow + Greatsword
Skirmishing: Trapper’s Expertise, Spotter, Quick Draw
Nature Magic: Instinctive Reaction, Evasive Purity, Protective Ward
BeastMastery: Go for the Eyes, Wilting Strike, Zephyr’s Speed

Abilities: Healing Spring ; Spike Trap, Quickening Zephyr, Lightning Reflexes ; Entangle

The only thing to keep in Mind is all the reflects and stuff. But a Zerk build that actually capitalizes on people who try to come close is another story.
But well, having a healing spring sit under our feet while our CD is getting back with the same scenario on Spike Trap is what I call a safe Zerk.

Tragic Positive.9356:

jcbroe
There is one build, though that I believe has more potential then ever.

Sniper Ranger, that is.
You already know that our only weakness are teleporting classes that can sneak behind your back. Well guess what happens if they (by any chance) step on a spike trap that slaps them with a knockdown that will allow you to smack the hell out of them with Quick Draw Greatsword options.

But here is the twist. If you pay close attention, you’ll notice that Marksmanship… Does not really offer that much for Longbow apart from it’s Last Grandmaster trait.

Think of it this way: Full Zerk setup, Longbow + Greatsword
Skirmishing: Trapper’s Expertise, Spotter, Quick Draw
Nature Magic: Instinctive Reaction, Evasive Purity, Protective Ward
BeastMastery: Go for the Eyes, Wilting Strike, Zephyr’s Speed

Abilities: Healing Spring ; Spike Trap, Quickening Zephyr, Lightning Reflexes ; Entangle

The only thing to keep in Mind is all the reflects and stuff. But a Zerk build that actually capitalizes on people who try to come close is another story.

Do note many of the teleportation break-stun and can be casted while CCed.
It does nothing to blink Mesmer and Shadow-step thief anyway.

For mesmer, it’s even worse cause they’d most like summon clones/ phantasm to waste your trap first.

anduriell.6280:

• Keen Edge We lost the bleeds it could give on crits.
• Speed Training this basic trait to make pets faster is lost. At least i can’t find it and it is one of the most important for pets.
• Commanding Voice is this one available after the patch? I mean having a lot of new effects when F2 and not being able to reduce the CD (that could be even 40 secs) is silly.

This made me laugh.

@jcbroe:
I don’t see a single thing there I disagree with except a very tiny thing … I think wherever the meta shifts to could actually change some of the meta builds from the current “obvious” choices to something else. In fact, I’m hoping they do, or at least help open up some build diversity for those classes.

As things are now, in my opinion we have classes that are part of the meta but don’t have much build diversity and we have classes that have build diversity because they’re not part of the meta. My hope is that the changes and/or expansion will open up build diversity for those in the meta and allow those with build diversity to bring that into the meta. Heck, two meta builds per class would be a feat and I’d be very happy with that.

Prophet.1584:

@jcbroe: what do you think about where the ranger will fall in the dungeon meta? I definitely agree with you on the idea that ranger is going to be in a good place in pvp. I can see a few builds already that’ll have strong synergy and team support however a lot of that is gained by sacrificing power damage. I’m not sure if those builds or anything like it will transfer to pve.

I’m going to be honest and say upfront that I’m not the most well-versed at the PvE aspects of the game lol.

That being said, although some modifiers have been lost, I think that PvE won’t end up changing for rangers all that much, in the sense that groups will still want Spotter and Frost Spirit.
My best guess is that it will go 6/6/0/6/0 with Sword/Axe and either GS or LB depending on preference/content:
Clarion Bond Steady Focus Predator’s Onslaught
Sharpened Edges Spotter Quickdraw
Bountiful Hunter Windborne Notes/Vigorous Training Nature’s Vengeance

Ideally, Clarion Bond remains a blast for blasting fields so you can get in combat and immediately buff everybody with a pet swap while blasting any fields. If not, it shouldn’t be a problem in the long run, it’s still utility. Sharpened Edges even without condition damage because bleed stacks to 1500 now so any added damage output from it should help. Quickdraw can be used on the axe skills for faster cooldowns and damage boosts as well as the GS swap for Maul or the LB swap for Barrage or Rapid Fire. Bountiful Hunter for maximizing damage output on you and your pet. Vigorous Training would be the worse of the options for overall DPS since you wouldn’t want to swap too often because you’re beefing up the pet with might stacking, but the other trait is a swap trait as well, and Evasive Purity is the least potentially useful, so I’d say its really up to long regen or short vigor support for the group. Lastly, we have to cross our fingers and hope the boon pulses are strong for frost spirit, otherwise, I’d say for NM you wind up using Protective Ward, which has it’s benefits, but overall there would be better things.

Now, if the spirit changes prove to be too much or Nature’s Vengeance is too awful, somebody might do the math and potentially discover that the new BM line is more beneficial line to take for damage output, but I’ll let Brazil or somebody else figure all the actual stuff out.

Overall though I don’t see how the changes are going to change that much about where rangers fit into the PvE spectrum, which is that while we don’t bring the highest tier options to a group, we do have options, and that it’s more of a community perspective than anything that really hurts rangers outside of speed run builds which I seriously doubt ranger has gained any ground at becoming more optimal than the current top tier speed running classes/builds haha.

That image isn’t helped by the fact that when I whisper a Ranger with ~700 AP to say “hey, most people hate it when you use Point Blank Shot for no reason because it gets the mob(s) out of position)” I receive a reply saying “I didn’t ask for your opinion. No one has complained about it before.”

A facepalm didn’t even begin to cover what all was wrong there.

It was worse in that not only were they just hitting PBS every time it was off CD, they were doing the same with Hunter’s Shot. Hunter’s Shot a mob right in their face (yes, Longbow in melee range too) and immediately break the stealth while still staying in melee with the mob.

Sadly, the class does enable that bad of a player to succeed in open world which then hurts the image of the Ranger class when that bad of a player tries to run dungeons.

Toxsa.2701:

…

Do note many of the teleportation break-stun and can be casted while CCed.
It does nothing to blink Mesmer and Shadow-step thief anyway.

For mesmer, it’s even worse cause they’d most like summon clones/ phantasm to waste your trap first.

Point taken. I just remembered Mesmers will reflect the CC back to me after the changes. Shame on me.
But I will come up with a valid build one day! Mark my words!

jcbroe.4329:

I actually see a lot of competitive value to the changes and really think that rangers are getting overall buffed, even though, just as I had no hope for traps or spirits, I was right in that regard because neither option is even remotely competitive now.

I actually haven’t even finished writing out all the new potential build combinations that would have decent enough working parts to work in competitive play, but I do think that I’ve been able to see the most promising options available so far so I’ll list those off as examples:

Power: While there will be higher damage builds, the reason why zerker ranger (and mesmer and necro and etc) struggle in the metagame is the prevalence of the (now superbuffed) Panic Strike thief build combined with the thieves insane, untouched mobility, allowing thieves to eat most zerker builds alive and keep them constantly dead and out of the match. Rangers, however, compared to the other classes that will still be held out of the meta by thieves, will be able to use:
6/0/6/6/0:
Clarion Bond Moment of Clarity Remorseless
Oakheart Salve Shared Anguish Wilderness Knowledge
Bountiful Hunter Windborne Notes Protective Ward

We’re looking at a build that covers that weakness of why zerker ranger is currently not a part of the meta, which is the ability to survive and even 1v1 common zerker metabuilds if necessary (thief and guardian), and bring the team utility that’s been lacking, ESPECIALLY perma-fury. It definitely has the tools it needs to compete within the current and potential future metagame (which won’t really see many builds change on any of the meta classes with the next patch except for engis). The weapons for this could be LB and blade (GS, Sword/Warhorn, Sword/Dagger, etc).

On the other hand, we have a few options for conditions, especially with Skirmishing making “evasion tank” builds so capable:
6/6/6/0/0
Clarion Bond Brutal Seals Remorseless
Sharpened Edges Hidden Barbs Quickdraw
Oakheart Salve Ambidexterity Wilderness Survival

This is the new bleeder build, and it has some serious potential between Hidden Barbs and the changes to vulnerability. If not running Rabid, switch Sharpened Edges to Primal Reflexes. Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch or the reverse (Sword/Dagger Axe/Torch). Quickdraw makes evasive weapon skills abundant, and if taking primal reflexes, the amount of sheer evasion is going to be incredibly potent. And if somehow, this build doesn’t have enough survival:
0/6/6/6/0
Primal Reflexes Hidden Barbs Quickdraw
Oakheart Salve Ambidexterity Wilderness Survival
Bountiful Hunter Vigorous Training Protective Ward

Honestly, what’s going to be able to kill you on something like this? The other build is the more optimal split between offense and defense, but really, the NM investment pretty much solidifies that no other individual should be able to kill you, assuming equal skill.

I see these builds having a fighting chance at team slots in the metagame.

1 i do love the Bark skin combos with those traits you listed for the 0,6,6,6,0 that 83% pet damage reduction with fortifying bond , protection33%50% from barkskin, your team mates can make your pet a killing power house while you , yourself does not need to build for Generating boons apart from the normal regen,fury,swiftness,stability.

jaguars will be very deadly.

Prophet.1584:

@jcbroe: what do you think about where the ranger will fall in the dungeon meta? I definitely agree with you on the idea that ranger is going to be in a good place in pvp. I can see a few builds already that’ll have strong synergy and team support however a lot of that is gained by sacrificing power damage. I’m not sure if those builds or anything like it will transfer to pve.

Dungeoneers will want to run 6/6/x/x/x, but it will be weaker than before.
The Marksmanship Adept choices are not very convincing and a slightly buffed Predator’s Onslaught is competing with Remorseless.
The Skirmishing Adept is simply useless for a zerker Ranger and the only really good thing is the Quick Draw trait.
We lose atleast one 10% damage modifier, which means that the Ranger will drop even further on the scorebord.

Actually, it is sort of ironic I suppose that I complain forever about the old “create a spike trap when you start reviving an ally trait” only for the trait to have been more useful with the buffed up Spike trap knocking people down.

I mean, it still wouldn’t have been the MOST optimal, but with the new knockdown, that trait would have finally made sense lol.

Wuselknusel.4082:

Prophet.1584:

@jcbroe: what do you think about where the ranger will fall in the dungeon meta? I definitely agree with you on the idea that ranger is going to be in a good place in pvp. I can see a few builds already that’ll have strong synergy and team support however a lot of that is gained by sacrificing power damage. I’m not sure if those builds or anything like it will transfer to pve.

Dungeoneers will want to run 6/6/x/x/x, but it will be weaker than before.
The Marksmanship Adept choices are not very convincing and a slightly buffed Predator’s Onslaught is competing with Remorseless.
The Skirmishing Adept is simply useless for a zerker Ranger and the only really good thing is the Quick Draw trait.
We lose atleast one 10% damage modifier, which means that the Ranger will drop even further on the scorebord.

i’m kind of looking at running a 0/6/0/6/6 or 6/6/0/0/6 build…it looks like the pets going to be outputting a lot more damage after the patch and it just seems to make sense to roll with the changes. i’ll also most likely go full melee which means shelving my kudzu(sigh) time to make bolt!

jcbroe.4329:

Actually, it is sort of ironic I suppose that I complain forever about the old “create a spike trap when you start reviving an ally trait” only for the trait to have been more useful with the buffed up Spike trap knocking people down.

I mean, it still wouldn’t have been the MOST optimal, but with the new knockdown, that trait would have finally made sense lol.

I said almost exactly this in another thread It is hilarious to me that they added the KD, then removed the trait just when it had synergy lol.

jcbroe.4329:

I actually see a lot of competitive value to the changes and really think that rangers are getting overall buffed, even though, just as I had no hope for traps or spirits, I was right in that regard because neither option is even remotely competitive now.

I actually haven’t even finished writing out all the new potential build combinations that would have decent enough working parts to work in competitive play, but I do think that I’ve been able to see the most promising options available so far so I’ll list those off as examples:

Power: While there will be higher damage builds, the reason why zerker ranger (and mesmer and necro and etc) struggle in the metagame is the prevalence of the (now superbuffed) Panic Strike thief build combined with the thieves insane, untouched mobility, allowing thieves to eat most zerker builds alive and keep them constantly dead and out of the match. Rangers, however, compared to the other classes that will still be held out of the meta by thieves, will be able to use:
6/0/6/6/0:
Clarion Bond Moment of Clarity Remorseless
Oakheart Salve Shared Anguish Wilderness Knowledge
Bountiful Hunter Windborne Notes Protective Ward

We’re looking at a build that covers that weakness of why zerker ranger is currently not a part of the meta, which is the ability to survive and even 1v1 common zerker metabuilds if necessary (thief and guardian), and bring the team utility that’s been lacking, ESPECIALLY perma-fury. It definitely has the tools it needs to compete within the current and potential future metagame (which won’t really see many builds change on any of the meta classes with the next patch except for engis). The weapons for this could be LB and blade (GS, Sword/Warhorn, Sword/Dagger, etc).

On the other hand, we have a few options for conditions, especially with Skirmishing making “evasion tank” builds so capable:
6/6/6/0/0
Clarion Bond Brutal Seals Remorseless
Sharpened Edges Hidden Barbs Quickdraw
Oakheart Salve Ambidexterity Wilderness Survival

This is the new bleeder build, and it has some serious potential between Hidden Barbs and the changes to vulnerability. If not running Rabid, switch Sharpened Edges to Primal Reflexes. Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch or the reverse (Sword/Dagger Axe/Torch). Quickdraw makes evasive weapon skills abundant, and if taking primal reflexes, the amount of sheer evasion is going to be incredibly potent. And if somehow, this build doesn’t have enough survival:
0/6/6/6/0
Primal Reflexes Hidden Barbs Quickdraw
Oakheart Salve Ambidexterity Wilderness Survival
Bountiful Hunter Vigorous Training Protective Ward

Honestly, what’s going to be able to kill you on something like this? The other build is the more optimal split between offense and defense, but really, the NM investment pretty much solidifies that no other individual should be able to kill you, assuming equal skill.

I see these builds having a fighting chance at team slots in the metagame.

You, I like your way of thinking! Mostly like mine

Quick draw will be THE trait to have

Just wanted to add my voice to the discontent about the future changes. With the last patch ranger was going in the right direction but now…

There are so many things wrong in this patch I don’t even know where to start but at this point I just don’t care: after 3 years the devs kept to do what they wanted even when the whole community was displeased; I’m just going to say that I despise the work they’ve done for the next patch and I’m saying this as a customer who bought a product that no longer resembles the thing paid for.

I’m tired of being asked to reroll for dungeons, tired of playing other classes with my guild mates in WvW (both raiding and roaming) and in PvP.

I think it is all depending on what boons the Spirits pulse and what range they have, because if the boons are fury/protection/stability/retaliation/resistance they could be very good.

I just want to point out that if you don’t actually give details about what you think is wrong with the given patch … you aren’t providing anything more than “I don’t like it” … which isn’t really helpful to anyone and isn’t something that can really even be discussed … the “why” is a rather essential part of this topic.

I support removing damage modifiers.
It helps close the gap between Power and Condition building, especially since they were careful to replace them with things like Crit-chance and Might that straddle the line between.

I also wanted to say your Trait comments seem really on point, for the most part:

- Attack of Opportunity is weak and niche, and by extension, ‘Moment of Clarity’ is too.

- ‘Strider’s Defense’ getting some kind of closing is sensible and even suits the name better. ….Bonus points for somehow swinging that.

- AOE Condi Cleanse is exactly what is needed for Invigorating Bond and Nature Magic (and heck even Poison Master in a round-about way).

- Stacking ‘Light on Your Feet’ seems like a natural call.
One stack downplays the choice of purposefully burning defense for offense.
As one stack is so commonplace you may as well wait for it to come naturally, but dodging back-to-back is unusual and requires conscious commitment to trade it off for more offense. Gameplay about making use of a damage increase on your opponent’s terms isn’t bad – but it’s not nearly as deep as having the trait make you choose between pre-emptive risk/reward and reactive twitch tactics.

- Precision to ‘Most Dangerous Game’ is…alright.
But honestly I kind of think this trait needs to feature something at the ‘end’ or otherwise increase non-linearly. :01 shouldn’t be exactly as rewarding as :08 ; the latter is alot harder to get to. And, honestly I’d likely unload while I still had SotW and Quickness from other traits, so getting to the full stack might actually feel anticlimactic as most things I’d want to ‘do’ with it would still be on cooldown.

Sebrent.3625:

I just want to point out that if you don’t actually give details about what you think is wrong with the given patch … you aren’t providing anything more than “I don’t like it” … which isn’t really helpful to anyone and isn’t something that can really even be discussed … the “why” is a rather essential part of this topic.

I just didn’t want to waste time on something no one from Anet will ever read…I already did that multiple times but you’re right I basically said “I don’t like it” so let me clarify:

1. Increasng the CD of spirits to 30 sec, removing the possibility to have them moving and the fact that they will die after the activated skill is enough to annihilate the spirit build for a simple reason: their duration is only 60 seconds and this does not allow you to position them strategically before a fight like you would do with engis turrets; moreover their health will be the same which means spirits will be easely killed by any AOE like they do now; plus, even if the boons they will share are going to be good, 1 sec of them every 3 is a joke unless the boons are something like stability, resistance, quickness, fury and protection.

2. Not being able to throw traps anymore will allow high moblity classes (thief, mesmer for example) to kite you around while they attack you safely from ranged. The point is that ranger moblity is not that good anyway so traps could be the most OP 1 shot kill skills of all…but you need to be able to land them: all that your opponent has to do is simply not to step on them and kill you from a distance.

3. Predator’s Onslought on the same line of Remorseless is not fair considering the lack of damage modifiers that ranger already has

4. Same for Emphatic Bond and Wilderness Knowledge. First of all, considering all the buffs condition damage gets in this patch forcing us to chose one between the ONLY two ways ranger has to cleanse conditions is a terrible idea. Second, have you ever tried to face 1v1 a full condi perplexity Mesmer/thief/necro/engi? It’s already hard to do right now as a ranger with both of those tratis on…I cannot imagine how it will be after the patch.

5. Giving us a damage reduction when we have regeneration sounds good (Oakheart Salve) but in reality 5% isn’t going to do much even if the core idea is good: something like a 10% would be acceptable, not less, even with perma regen via shouts.

6. Light on Your Feet is garbage, a joke compared to what they initially presented us. The 5% condition damage and duration increse after a dodge (for 4 sec only) is ridiculously weak: give us back the 10% while moving and this trait would be worth consdering to take instead of Quick Draw or Most Dangerous Game.

7. Honed Axe: this trait clearly demonstrate devs knowledge about ranger (even if they created it). The main hand axe IS a condi weapon and the only stat you cannot include in a condi build is ferocity; even power would be more useful than that.

That’s what I came up at the moment and I hope I gave you at least an idea of why I’m displeased. Anyway these are just my thoughts and even if I hope I’m wrong and ranger will be actually very good after the patch, I don’t believe it right now.

Thanks for elaborating, Dave.

1. I agree … unless there is something they simply aren’t telling us or isn’t clear from what they have told us … spirits look potentially worse (you already gave the reasons why) … and we didn’t think that it was possible for spirits to get worse … lol.

2. I somewhat disagree. Not throwing them does give some less control/options, but few classes (if any) want to fight a Longbow ranger from range so I could see traps having a place with Longbow builds as it puts enemies in a conundrum where they don’t want the longbow pain from max range but they don’t want the trap pain from closing in on the ranger either. I can also see some tactical use of traps in WvW and use of traps for helping hold points in sPvP. Traps in PvE are just another source of AoE damage and combo fields in my book.

3. I’m not sure this is the issue … I think the issue is what you touched on … Ranger does seem to have a lack of damage modifiers … though we have quite an abundant access to Quickness. I could be wrong though. I have nothing but my opinion for this one :-p

4. I’m not a fan of Empathic Bond so don’t have the same issue with this as you do (and others have voiced having that same issue), but I do see the validity behind it. Condition cleansing options from traits were reduced when they placed them in the same tier of the same specialization … could be better.

5. I see that Oakheart in several lights. First, 5% over time is nice. Second, 5% combined with armor, protection, etc. is very nice. These things add up. Third, taking less damage multiplies the effectiveness of healing as it tries to mitigate the damage you have/are taken/taking. Healing 100 per second does less versus damage with 0% mitigation than it does versus damage with 5% mitigation. If I wasn’t clear enough on this, please let me know and I’ll try to clear it up.

6. I don’t think its complete garbage, but comparatively the +5% for a very short duration only after evading and it doesn’t even stack is rather mind-boggling.

7. Aye, I have been rather confused by this. To my knowledge, we don’t see viable Ranger builds taking Axe with Zerker gear. Perhaps some great player(s) have been doing this and are just not very talkative/social … but it seems contrary to how we see the weapon used.

That being said … perhaps they are trying to get this Hybrid weapon to be used in more ways than just as a condition weapon.

jcbroe.4329:

I actually see a lot of competitive value to the changes and really think that rangers are getting overall buffed, even though, just as I had no hope for traps or spirits, I was right in that regard because neither option is even remotely competitive now.

you really aren’t right about traps. at all. and all of your builds seem to exclude Beastly Warden, which is really silly.

I think he is right about traps and spirits.

Prophet.1584:

@jcbroe: what do you think about where the ranger will fall in the dungeon meta? I definitely agree with you on the idea that ranger is going to be in a good place in pvp. I can see a few builds already that’ll have strong synergy and team support however a lot of that is gained by sacrificing power damage. I’m not sure if those builds or anything like it will transfer to pve.

Prophet, you and I are seeing it the same and why it’s sad to see Rangers going back to a terrible place. Those PVP builds won’t transfer over just like they don’t now with old content like dungeons and fractals (which is the vast majority of what I do besides WBT) without them revamping dungeons and fractals into new content. A real shame considering Rangers were in not too bad of a place, and I dare say pretty good… Now, seeing what they are doing… Man, I will just feel bad for bringing my Ranger into a group again.

Wuselknusel.4082:

I think he is right about traps and spirits.

im sure you think so. you and anduriell have done nothing but cry about everything since the patch notes got released.

I can actually foresee trapper as a viable build. The only thing that bothers me is the fact that you have to choose between Trap trait and Sharpened edges.

Out of all of the class changes where things were made baseline, I think the Rangers got the most.

You needed to go into a pretty bad trait selection only to make LB usable. Now you do not, and if you spec into MM there are options that make you overall better and thus the tree will not be as worthless but necessary as before (Looking at you Remorseless)

Quick draw will make for some rather interesting builds, and the change to Hunter tactics is not a nerf per se. It is a nerf in damage for pure dungeon running, but overall the trait minor becomes usable both in power and condition builds.

Everything else, other then EB and WSMastery being in the same spot is an overall buff compared to the current situation.

Now back to Trapper.

-Trap mastery, Barbed whatyoumaycallit 33% bleed damage bonus, Quick draw
-Oakheart Salve, Ambidexterity, EB
-Go for the Eyes, Natural regeneration/Wilting strike, Beastly warden(to keep em in the traps)

Also, remember that you can precast HS now, this compacting 2 casts into a short period of time. Spike trap will get much better as will Vipers nest.

^you’ve got the right idea I think. the synergy between Beastly Warden, Spike trap and quickdraw is incredible. add Entangle to that and you can essentially keep people pinned down until they blow all their defensive CD’s, or die. we can go rabid or settler stats. survivability shouldn’t be a problem considering we’re kittenting cc everywhere.

im actually very surprised more people aren’t seeing this, but oh well, more glory for me.

Looking forward to trying out a modified Remorseless build I’ve been theory crafting, depending on what boons spirits get with Nature’s Vengeance. Support, burst, sustain and tons of mobility. Weak point is condi removal.
6/0/0/6/6
Marks: Clarion Bond, Brutish Seals, Remorseless
Nature: Allies Aid, Windborne Notes, Nature’s Vengeance
BM: Resounding Timbre, 2 Handed Training, Zephyr’s Speed
Valkyrie Amulet, Altruism Runes
GS-Battle/Intel, S-Battle, WH-Energy
“HaO”, Stone Spirit, SoTW, SoR, Entangle
Owl/Wolf for bulk damage/CC
I’m assuming (!) Stone Spirit gets a decent boon from NV and also retains its protection proc. You can place it in LoS away from a point while you are defending, I think they will be usable if the boons are good from NV and the spirit has a decent range. If they are forced off the point to kill your spirit, you trigger it. It has served its purpose imo.

So, using your heal (16s CD) gives you and allies; 3 might for 10s, 12s Regen, 12s Swiftness, 6s Fury. Swapping pets gives you and allies 1 might 18s, 18s fury, 18s swiftness, 12s Regen. You also gain an additional 3 might for 18s and 3.6s Quickness. Using warhorn #5 gives the same as Clarion Bond, both WH#5 and Clarion Bond have 24s CD. 75% chance to get protection for 3/10s, plus 30% up time on one other boon from NV. Your pet gains all boons you get. Imo, very nice.

mistsim.2748:

jcbroe.4329:

I actually see a lot of competitive value to the changes and really think that rangers are getting overall buffed, even though, just as I had no hope for traps or spirits, I was right in that regard because neither option is even remotely competitive now.

you really aren’t right about traps. at all. and all of your builds seem to exclude Beastly Warden, which is really silly.

I don’t think traps are going to see competitive play for a team slot at all when you look at how it compares to things like the revamped bomb engi. It isn’t that I don’t think they are good, it’s that I honestly don’t think a build built around them is comparatively good enough to be taken over a different classes options.

As for Beastly Warden, I didn’t include it because there just isn’t enough known about it as far as the actual range of the skill and when exactly it fires off on the animation or if things like Expertise Training are going to affect it (they should but you never know how it’ll be coded). It also doesn’t synergize well with most of the pets currently used at a competitive level, which means another layer of testing has to then be done on how well the new traits work with the viable pets (birds) that can take advantage of the trait often enough for it to be worth it’s opportunity cost.

The entire concept of traiting for BM still relies on the idea that pets are both consistent and reliable, and the honest truth is that pets are neither of those things against skilled players, and then the factor on top of that is that even if we assume perfect reliability and consistency, what about adding a short control effect and a few other functionally minor effects to our current condition builds output makes it competitive with any of the things other builds can do.

I just really don’t see Beastly Warden on the changes to the BM having any of the answers rangers needed at a competitive level.

That doesn’t mean I’m right though lol. Like Sebrent said, there’s a lot of assumptions being made at this point.

Beastly Warden and traiting for the new BM line in general is one of those things I’d just have to see work for top level competitive play to believe it. I KNOW it will be good for duels or 1v1s or even 2v2s, but Rangers have never had issue with either of those things. The two main things our builds have struggled with are team fighting and/or staying alive against common zerker hardcounters for power builds like thief/guardian.

I think that regardless, the changes have addressed those weaknesses.

Edit: Also, those were just the builds I chose to share lol. I have quite a few splits in mind, I just chose to talk about the ones I think are the most promising. But here, my list so far:
6/6/6/0/0
6/0/6/6/0
6/0/6/0/6
0/6/6/6/0
0/6/6/0/6
0/0/6/6/6
Basically all of them have either the option of power or condition, and I didn’t think me posting my 5+ page list breakdown of condition formulas for level 80 damage, potential builds on other classes, all of our new traits and all of the best in slot or competing slot options, and then all of the builds I’ve theorycrafted out so far with much too much detail on all of the choices made and the focus on how to play the build lol.

I mean, clearly I’ll get around to sharing all that eventually, but I have to save some of it for when the podcast starts back up and then refine it through testing when the patch drops lol.