Guild Wars 2

jcbroe.4329:

I don’t think traps are going to see competitive play for a team slot at all when you look at how it compares to things like the revamped bomb engi. .

jcbroe.4329:

I just really don’t see Beastly Warden on the changes to the BM having any of the answers rangers needed at a competitive level.

for BW, im assuming at least 300 range, instant cast, does not require target, 3-5 target limit. if it’s anything less than this, I will join our other fellow rangers and cry in a corner.

i’ll briefly explain why 0/0/6/6/6 may be competitive. firstly, barkskin. it helps with various openers. secondly, Protective Ward as it also helps with surviving burst without popping defensive cd’s. thirdly, an aoe taunt that will force people to blow their defensive CD’s or eat my bird’s F2 (which eats through light and medium armor) in addition to a chain of condi stacks. and it’s just an aoe CC to take the pressure off.

basically, we’re taking the already strong settler condi bunker, giving it significantly more survivability against openers/burst, buffing its condi damage (poison stacking), and if that’s not enough giving it survivable and responsive pets (birds) with pbaoe blind, weakness and taunt on F2. that’s also a lot of utility that we previously didn’t have. we can interrupt rezzes and heals, and peel for our teammates.

regarding traps, I guess we’ll have to wait and see. I just feel the knockdown on spike trap is too good, and trap condi damage got buffed.

mistsim.2748:

jcbroe.4329:

I don’t think traps are going to see competitive play for a team slot at all when you look at how it compares to things like the revamped bomb engi. .

jcbroe.4329:

I just really don’t see Beastly Warden on the changes to the BM having any of the answers rangers needed at a competitive level.

for BW, im assuming at least 300 range, instant cast, 3-5 target limit. if it’s anything less than this, I will join our other fellow rangers and cry in a corner.

i’ll briefly explain why 0/0/6/6/6 may be competitive. firstly, barkskin. it helps with various openers. secondly, Protective Ward as it also helps with taking burst damage. thirdly, an aoe taunt that will force people to blow their defensive CD’s or eat my bird’s kitten F2 (on light and medium armor respectively). and it’s just an awesome aoe CC to take the pressure off. basically, we’re taking the already strong settler condi bunker, giving it significantly more survivability against openers/burst, buffing its condi damage (poison stacking), and if that’s not enough giving it survivable and responsive pets (birds) with pbaoe blind, weakness and taunt on F2.

regarding traps, I guess we’ll have to wait and see. I just feel the knockdown on spike trap is too good, and trap condi damage got buffed.

Just made an edit by the way to the post you’re responding to. Don’t know if you saw it yet or not but it might add some hopefully helpful clarity.
The follow-up/tl;dr version would be me saying that I completely understand the theory behind the build and am definitely not discounting it, but it will for sure be something I have to test to see how exactly it functions first.
Some of these options, like Quickdraw and Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch don’t need any testing. You can just look at them and go “yeah, that’s strong” hahaha.

Heck, I still remember back in the day when an “old pro” Battosai told me to run offhand dagger because the “it’s so many evasion frames it’s OP for its cooldown,” and now we have quickdraw to reduce that cooldown lol.

Stalker’s Strike is the smoothest, most beautiful evade in the game. i like Quick Shot as well. and indeed, quickdraw will give us so much survivability and utility. it’s definitely in the top 10 GM’s across all professions imo.

and now you got me nervous because im thinking of ways they could kitten up BW for us.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I support removing damage modifiers.
It helps close the gap between Power and Condition building, especially since they were careful to replace them with things like Crit-chance and Might that straddle the line between.

I also wanted to say your Trait comments seem really on point, for the most part:

- Attack of Opportunity is weak and niche, and by extension, ‘Moment of Clarity’ is too.

- ‘Strider’s Defense’ getting some kind of closing is sensible and even suits the name better. ….Bonus points for somehow swinging that.

- AOE Condi Cleanse is exactly what is needed for Invigorating Bond and Nature Magic (and heck even Poison Master in a round-about way).

- Stacking ‘Light on Your Feet’ seems like a natural call.
One stack downplays the choice of purposefully burning defense for offense.
As one stack is so commonplace you may as well wait for it to come naturally, but dodging back-to-back is unusual and requires conscious commitment to trade it off for more offense. Gameplay about making use of a damage increase on your opponent’s terms isn’t bad – but it’s not nearly as deep as having the trait make you choose between pre-emptive risk/reward and reactive twitch tactics.

- Precision to ‘Most Dangerous Game’ is…alright.
But honestly I kind of think this trait needs to feature something at the ‘end’ or otherwise increase non-linearly. :01 shouldn’t be exactly as rewarding as :08 ; the latter is alot harder to get to. And, honestly I’d likely unload while I still had SotW and Quickness from other traits, so getting to the full stack might actually feel anticlimactic as most things I’d want to ‘do’ with it would still be on cooldown.

Strange, why ranger is ok to “remove damage modifier” to close the gap between condition and power, whereas other classes are allowed to have all kinds of easy 20% (like after using burst) and 10% modifier across the board.

Toxsa.2701:

Vox Hollow.2736:

I support removing damage modifiers.
It helps close the gap between Power and Condition building, especially since they were careful to replace them with things like Crit-chance and Might that straddle the line between.

I also wanted to say your Trait comments seem really on point, for the most part:

- Attack of Opportunity is weak and niche, and by extension, ‘Moment of Clarity’ is too.

- ‘Strider’s Defense’ getting some kind of closing is sensible and even suits the name better. ….Bonus points for somehow swinging that.

- AOE Condi Cleanse is exactly what is needed for Invigorating Bond and Nature Magic (and heck even Poison Master in a round-about way).

- Stacking ‘Light on Your Feet’ seems like a natural call.
One stack downplays the choice of purposefully burning defense for offense.
As one stack is so commonplace you may as well wait for it to come naturally, but dodging back-to-back is unusual and requires conscious commitment to trade it off for more offense. Gameplay about making use of a damage increase on your opponent’s terms isn’t bad – but it’s not nearly as deep as having the trait make you choose between pre-emptive risk/reward and reactive twitch tactics.

- Precision to ‘Most Dangerous Game’ is…alright.
But honestly I kind of think this trait needs to feature something at the ‘end’ or otherwise increase non-linearly. :01 shouldn’t be exactly as rewarding as :08 ; the latter is alot harder to get to. And, honestly I’d likely unload while I still had SotW and Quickness from other traits, so getting to the full stack might actually feel anticlimactic as most things I’d want to ‘do’ with it would still be on cooldown.

Strange, why ranger is ok to “remove damage modifier” to close the gap between condition and power, whereas other classes are allowed to have all kinds of easy 20% (like after using burst) and 10% modifier across the board.

I disagree with the idea of “closing the gap”.
Direct damage is supposed to be a double edged weapon. Deadly but fragile.
Conditions were … Safe and sound. But without burst.

Well Rangers have been the only class I can think of ever since I’ve been playing this without bursty direct damage. And no, Rapid fire is still not a burst, just as Maul isn’t a true burst either. Yep, the cooldowns are to be noted too.

If you “close the gap” this way – there won’t be any competition whatsoever. Conditions will just overwrite Direct Damage and you won’t see a single Zerk. Just as you don’t see conditions today.

And Ranger’s direct damage is still worse than conditions. A condition you have to apply and wait. Ranger has to keep pressing #1 over and over and over again to maintain the damage. Not to mention that his damage stops if he has to dodge by any chance.
As the only class with direct damage without burst – Rangers need their direct damage to be higher than other classes. And I can’t see it coming with these changes.

Funny thing to note, if you trait into BM the pet will get so many good things for free or with far less investment then before its hilarious. Most of the things previously were distributed all over the trait tree.

Free stuff:
-20% CD reduction on all skills
-30% movement speed and 20% critical damage (300 extra ferocity translates into 20%, used to be 450 ferocity into 30%; not sure if that is a typo or an intended change)
-10% extra damage if the ranger is over 90% HP

Stuff that can be traited:
-Go for the eyes, 300 extra toughness and blind on hit (if there is no ICD then hawk spam YOLO, or if it affects multiple enemies AOE BLIND YOLO)
-Natural healing, very solid for both ranger and pet.
-Expertise training, 300 condition damage and 20% duration

I really can see a BM ranger that goes for Wilderness mastery and 00666.

-TU, zephyr, LR, SoS, entangle

Traits:
-oakheart/expertise training, ambidexterity, wilderness knowledge
-dual res, evasive purity, protective ward
-go for the eyes, natural healing, quickening zephyr

@Chokolata:
Shhhh! Don’t let them in on our Eagle/Hawk spam! :-p
You can take both, they don’t share CDs, they both have the same F2 with an awesomely low cooldown, and are both birds (more reliable hits in PvP, swiftness, etc.).

These two excellent birds allow you to continue to enjoy the benefits you’d take just one for while still being able to benefit from on-pet-swap traits if you take them … otherwise, you might have more incentive to take two different pets depending on your goals.

If [Go For The Eyes] and [Wilting Strike] don’t have ICDs, these birds will be a pain in the butt for opponents; particularly power builds given that Weakness bothers them far more than it does condition builds.

Seb, was just talking about it before, but… Refined Toxins, GfTE, Wilting Strike, Beastly Warden and Sharpened Edges is going to be a killer combination on pets. Imagine those traits with a Hawk… It will have 1674 power, 2361 precision, 1974 toughness and 2361 vitality. Birds are the pick here. http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgUCdAOoBVQ~

Refined Toxins will also be very nice for spiders too, imo.

Sebrent.3625:

@Chokolata:
Shhhh! Don’t let them in on our Eagle/Hawk spam! :-p
You can take both, they don’t share CDs, they both have the same F2 with an awesomely low cooldown, and are both birds (more reliable hits in PvP, swiftness, etc.).

These two excellent birds allow you to continue to enjoy the benefits you’d take just one for while still being able to benefit from on-pet-swap traits if you take them … otherwise, you might have more incentive to take two different pets depending on your goals.

If [Go For The Eyes] and [Wilting Strike] don’t have ICDs, these birds will be a pain in the butt for opponents; particularly power builds given that Weakness bothers them far more than it does condition builds.

Dont forget weakness also reduce by 50% energy regen. Now it will totally nullify vigor. The only problem i will see with them is their low defense stats and also the eternal chase pet are use to do.

Klonko.8341:

Sebrent.3625:

@Chokolata:
Shhhh! Don’t let them in on our Eagle/Hawk spam! :-p
You can take both, they don’t share CDs, they both have the same F2 with an awesomely low cooldown, and are both birds (more reliable hits in PvP, swiftness, etc.).

These two excellent birds allow you to continue to enjoy the benefits you’d take just one for while still being able to benefit from on-pet-swap traits if you take them … otherwise, you might have more incentive to take two different pets depending on your goals.

If [Go For The Eyes] and [Wilting Strike] don’t have ICDs, these birds will be a pain in the butt for opponents; particularly power builds given that Weakness bothers them far more than it does condition builds.

Dont forget weakness also reduce by 50% energy regen. Now it will totally nullify vigor. The only problem i will see with them is their low defense stats and also the eternal chase pet are use to do.

Don’t forget that if you take those traits, the pet gets a +600 buff to Toughness, +300 to Vitality, Power and Precision. Also, Birds AA has a 300 range and they have 30% run speed now too from BM

… and birds bring their own Swiftness (that they share with allies)

+300 to Ferocity as well :-)

It is definitely a way to make pets something that shouldn’t be ignored.

That 300 melee range on bird skills is exactly what all pets need, but, for now, these two birds fit the bill if we don’t have those ICDs holding us back on some of the traits.

I think the Weakness and +600 Toughness will help the birds survive. If you take Wilderness Survival, they’ll have Barkskin as well.

Now … all this is well and good, but it’s time for the most serious, most important part … you can run around with an Eagle named “Merica”. I do :-)

Sebrent.3625:

… and birds bring their own Swiftness (that they share with allies)

+300 to Ferocity as well :-)

It is definitely a way to make pets something that shouldn’t be ignored.

That 300 melee range on bird skills is exactly what all pets need, but, for now, these two birds fit the bill if we don’t have those ICDs holding us back on some of the traits.

I think the Weakness and +600 Toughness will help the birds survive. If you take Wilderness Survival, they’ll have Barkskin as well.

Now … all this is well and good, but it’s time for the most serious, most important part … you can run around with an Eagle named “Merica”. I do :-)

Personnally I would go with " ’MURICA". But my concern is more if they can survive in a node combat in spvp with all the aoe going on in a 2m² (haha metrics).

Zephyr superspeed on pet

Am I missing something about Frost spirit? It got a 5 second longer cooldown, but 5% more chance to proc, you’ll still probably have it up for every fight? What’s the duration of it if you don’t use the active skill? Swapping it after a fight for something else, then back at the next mob was always the modus operandi. Is this “frost spirit destroyed argument” only because of the lowered health, since the trait probably won’t be used any more?

I could see some interesting setups with my old BM Bunker build with this…Wish Moment of Clarity was Adept….would of had fun with that.

Incoming bird meta.

@Gotejjeken:
Depending on the traits taken, we may see all sorts of other pets taken now.
If some of those traits have ICDs on the pet F2, we might see people taking pets with F2 cooldowns that are quite similar (if not exactly the same).

Having CC on F2 from a trait is big in that it means any pet can now CC with their F2 instead of just a select few.

im sure theyre gonna add ICD’s on Go For the Eyes and Wilting Strike. it would be dumb to abuse hawk f2.

You’re probably right … but I’ve seen worse things make it into the game :-p Maybe we’ll get this one.

If they do, the next question will be “what are the ICDs” … if sufficiently short, pets with similar cooldowns on their F2s would suffice … or if it is a multiple of the Eagle/Hawk F2 they could still be F2 spammed to trigger it something like every other time.

Didn’t read the whole thing through but I want to say this;

Spirits for PvE won’t and aren’t broken.

Slotting Spirits Unbound trait was a waste of DPS and never ever a good choice to have. Part of being a good ranger was knowing how to manage your skills – that includes how to minimize the cooldown time of your spirits by either swapping skills or timing the placement.

60 second lasting Spirit is more than enough to kill any dungeon boss with the current state of game and with current content.

Aww, come on guys, we need something a bit OP to compete with what everyone else got

imo, the pets with CC are not the ones that work best with Beastly Warden and it works best with Wilting Strike and GFTE as well so the pet takes no damage from the taunt as well, which is why it will work so nice with birds imo. Hawk will be glued to my bar for sure since it will have a 4.75s CD on its F2.

Although, an Alpine Wolf with Refined Toxins, Poison Master, GFTE, Wilting Strike, Beastly Warden and Clarion Bond would be pretty hilarious for swapping for KD, then hitting F2. That is a lot of CC with condi stack right there. 3 Poison, chill, blind, weakness, taunt. A lot of investment though.

0/0/6/6/6 BM Shout Ranger with Trooper Runes is the future of PvP!

6/0/6/0/6 with great sword/longbow with defender rune and the divinity armor type set (one that gives all stats) might be interesting.

Thinking of trying it with moment of clarity and technobabble for the 75% bonus damage on maul.

Some people didn’t like my suggestion of Shortbow/Greatsword with Moment of Clarity so let me do some math to explain this.

(a) Swap to Greatsword
(b) 3 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
© 8 second cooldown thanks to Quick Draw
(d) 3 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
(e) Swap to Shortbow
(f) 2 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
(g) 8 second cooldown thanks to Quick Draw
(h) 2 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
… back to step (a)

So, at best, you have 10 seconds of stun/daze out of 28s; or 35.7% of the time. That’s not bad. At best, you can lock down your target for 1/3 of the fight … before factoring in any possible CC from pets or any utilities.

Now, obviously, that’s at best. You’re going to likely get less coverage than that, but your opponent isn’t always casting non-stop either.

I’ve been playing around with these two weapons together with Celestial stats and stacking strength and bleeds on-crit with the shortbow’s fast attack speed and it’s been doing well … despite not having the extra goodies we’re about to get.

I think it might be something to look into with the new specializations once they are released.

I was looking forward to SB/GS until they wrecked LOYF and gutted the SB damage bonus. I think SB’s power damage is very underwhelming.

The 50% more Frost Spirit cooldown is HUGE for PvE. That is an effective 50% longer downtime on one of our best utilities, in exchange for an effective .5% boost to team damage. This is absolutely insane. It’s not a small change, it’s a gigantic one, and it’s really really not good for Rangers in PvE, where they already have a bad reputation.

Beastly warden will be one of the best group traits in the game. It’s basically a pbae pull from games like warhammer for example

I don’t think shortbow’s damage is that bad:

• https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tuDz1x50hIhREdfWni7Eim9MbG8cDRkIuuIsioXdruc/edit#gid=0

I do think it’s a very different weapon than others though … it’s about sustained damage instead of burst … though the condi changes have introduced some potential burst with Poison Volley since Poison now stacks.

I can see SB/GS being very powerful with quickdraw. not sure what stats id run.

and yes xsorus, I feel the same about BW. if it’s designed properly, i.e. instacast with a decent aoe.

With regard to shortbow celestial stat’s with sigil of earth and air do a good job of complimenting the mixed stat’s on cele and bring shortbow power damage to a descent level

My favourite roaming build uses shortbow/greatsword and 0/6/4/0/4 for this setup

Sebrent.3625:

Some people didn’t like my suggestion of Shortbow/Greatsword with Moment of Clarity so let me do some math to explain this.

(a) Swap to Greatsword
(b) 3 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
© 8 second cooldown thanks to Quick Draw
(d) 3 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
(e) Swap to Shortbow
(f) 2 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
(g) 8 second cooldown thanks to Quick Draw
(h) 2 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
… back to step (a)

So, at best, you have 10 seconds of stun/daze out of 28s; or 35.7% of the time. That’s not bad. At best, you can lock down your target for 1/3 of the fight … before factoring in any possible CC from pets or any utilities.

Now, obviously, that’s at best. You’re going to likely get less coverage than that, but your opponent isn’t always casting non-stop either.

I’ve been playing around with these two weapons together with Celestial stats and stacking strength and bleeds on-crit with the shortbow’s fast attack speed and it’s been doing well … despite not having the extra goodies we’re about to get.

I think it might be something to look into with the new specializations once they are released.

But honestly GS+ SB seems like an awkward combination, but it may work though.

Sebrent.3625:

Some people didn’t like my suggestion of Shortbow/Greatsword with Moment of Clarity so let me do some math to explain this.

(a) Swap to Greatsword
(b) 3 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
© 8 second cooldown thanks to Quick Draw
(d) 3 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
(e) Swap to Shortbow
(f) 2 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
(g) 8 second cooldown thanks to Quick Draw
(h) 2 second daze/stun thanks to Moment of Clarity
… back to step (a)

So, at best, you have 10 seconds of stun/daze out of 28s; or 35.7% of the time. That’s not bad. At best, you can lock down your target for 1/3 of the fight … before factoring in any possible CC from pets or any utilities.

Now, obviously, that’s at best. You’re going to likely get less coverage than that, but your opponent isn’t always casting non-stop either.

I’ve been playing around with these two weapons together with Celestial stats and stacking strength and bleeds on-crit with the shortbow’s fast attack speed and it’s been doing well … despite not having the extra goodies we’re about to get.

I think it might be something to look into with the new specializations once they are released.

Sometimes I wish they left the bleeds on the GS for hybrid builds like this. The GS/SB is a nice combo actually, the SB is your main damage and GS becomes defense with even more utility.

Sinister armor (Aristocracy Runes) and SB (Air/Strength) with Celestial trinkets and a Cavalier GS (Battle/Intelligence) looks like nice numbers to me, for that combo. Mostly because I already have half of it
Gear & Traits

This is an excellent post.

After finally getting to watch the stream (as reading the notes can be lacking), here is some things that I found odd.

Predator’s Intinct, a trait so bad they didn’t even bother talking about it. Next is the time they wasted on on evade trait activation being more skill (while it may be the case) then leaving LoYF and companion’s defense in the ‘unskilled’ just dodge to use.lastly is the use of the word ‘interesting’ as in traits changed to be more interesting that is a very subjective term and until they define it more clearly it leaves me wondering what is the overall plan is.

The next thought is meant as a joke, I repeat a joke, with all this focus on tankiness on ranger they might as well just increase its health pool to the high rating then there would be medium armored profession with that rating. Joke has ended carry on.

Bran.7425:

After finally getting to watch the stream (as reading the notes can be lacking), here is some things that I found odd.

Predator’s Intinct, a trait so bad they didn’t even bother talking about it. Next is the time they wasted on on evade trait activation being more skill (while it may be the case) then leaving LoYF and companion’s defense in the ‘unskilled’ just dodge to use.lastly is the use of the word ‘interesting’ as in traits changed to be more interesting that is a very subjective term and until they define it more clearly it leaves me wondering what is the overall plan is.

The next thought is meant as a joke, I repeat a joke, with all this focus on tankiness on ranger they might as well just increase its health pool to the high rating then there would be medium armored profession with that rating. Joke has ended carry on.

You point out something quite interesting.

Heavies have a High HP (War), Med Hp(Rev), Low HP(Guard) classes.
Lighties have High HP(Nec), Med HP(Mes), Low HP(Ele)

How come medium armor has no High Hp class?
Ranger might as well be the candidate for it since Anet removes lots of damage modifier to it and focus on buffing the defensive aspect of ranger.

Bran.7425:

…with all this focus on tankiness on ranger they might as well just increase its health pool to the high rating then there would be medium armored profession with that rating…

Whoa, don’t you think that would be OP? I mean, come on!

;)

Dave Pare.2069:

Just wanted to add my voice to the discontent about the future changes. With the last patch ranger was going in the right direction but now…

There are so many things wrong in this patch I don’t even know where to start but at this point I just don’t care: after 3 years the devs kept to do what they wanted even when the whole community was displeased; I’m just going to say that I despise the work they’ve done for the next patch and I’m saying this as a customer who bought a product that no longer resembles the thing paid for.

I’m tired of being asked to reroll for dungeons, tired of playing other classes with my guild mates in WvW (both raiding and roaming) and in PvP.

There is no instance in this game where I would ever CHOOSE to take my ranger over my warrior…. I main Ranger… Ranger was my first… But let’s be honest here… Phalanx strength + full zerk is just broken. When I can pull off higher numbers in exotic gear/trinkets on my warrior than my full out ascended gear/trinkets with Kudzu something is SERIOUSLY wrong!

I’m just going to throw this out there btw…. Whenever a rangers sword damage is HIGHER than his BOW damage the class is effectively broken. This is the Guild Wars world we are speaking of and a ranger is very well defined in Guild Wars 1. This is not a subject of divesity or of theory that is just FACT. Ranger was the bow wielding profession and a specialist of said weapon. Why has this been lost in the 200+ years? Now they are going even farther away from it making GS a more viable weapon in almost EVERY top teir build? This needs to change… Rangers need to be feared and all I see is them being the laughing stock of the game.
EDIT: Maybe they should just change the pictures of rangers from now on to be holding swords instead of bows?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger
Ranger
A male and female ranger
“
Rangers are unique in their ability to succeed with the help of, or even in spite of, their environment. Nature rituals allow them to manipulate the environment to hinder their enemies, or borrow the very power of creation to heal and aid their allies. They favor long-range combat, the bow being their weapon of choice, and can be especially effective from elevated locations such as bridges and cliffs. They are the only profession with the ability to charm animals, which then accompany them on their travels and assist them in battle, gaining experience and levels over time. Rangers are also blessed with survival skills that help keep them alive by causing regeneration of health.
— The Guild Wars Manuscripts
Ranger
An agile and wily survivor, the Ranger specializes in archery, beast mastery, and attunement to nature.

Natfrog.4310:

There is no instance in this game where I would ever CHOOSE to take my ranger over my warrior…. I main Ranger… Ranger was my first… But let’s be honest here… Phalanx strength + full zerk is just broken. When I can pull off higher numbers in exotic gear/trinkets on my warrior than my full out ascended gear/trinkets with Kudzu something is SERIOUSLY wrong!

Difference of full exotic compared to full ascended is a little more than 10% dps, a tiny difference compared to other factors. Also higher numbers =/= higher dps. Just because you can push out 50k hundred blades doesnt mean your dps is the best.

I’m just going to throw this out there btw…. Whenever a rangers sword damage is HIGHER than his BOW damage the class is effectively broken. This is the Guild Wars world we are speaking of and a ranger is very well defined in Guild Wars 1. This is not a subject of divesity or of theory that is just FACT. Ranger was the bow wielding profession and a specialist of said weapon. Why has this been lost in the 200+ years? Now they are going even farther away from it making GS a more viable weapon in almost EVERY top teir build? This needs to change… Rangers need to be feared and all I see is them being the laughing stock of the game.

You seem to have no idea about how this game is balanced. Ranged weapons generally do less damage compared to melee, to balance risk/reward. Bows are already a strong single target ranged option.

Also you might not have noticed, but ranger gets significant buffs for PvP (in the form of more utility/survivability) as well as PvE. Yes, you lose out on a couple of damage modifiers, but make up for it with better rotations thanks to Quick Draw.

I’m getting tired of these “hurr durr ranger = ranged just remove sword/greatsword buff bows” posts. Also this game is not Guild Wars 1. If you want Guild Wars 1, go play that instead.

coax.2951:

Natfrog.4310:

There is no instance in this game where I would ever CHOOSE to take my ranger over my warrior…. I main Ranger… Ranger was my first… But let’s be honest here… Phalanx strength + full zerk is just broken. When I can pull off higher numbers in exotic gear/trinkets on my warrior than my full out ascended gear/trinkets with Kudzu something is SERIOUSLY wrong!

Difference of full exotic compared to full ascended is a little more than 10% dps, a tiny difference compared to other factors. Also higher numbers =/= higher dps. Just because you can push out 50k hundred blades doesnt mean your dps is the best.

I’m just going to throw this out there btw…. Whenever a rangers sword damage is HIGHER than his BOW damage the class is effectively broken. This is the Guild Wars world we are speaking of and a ranger is very well defined in Guild Wars 1. This is not a subject of divesity or of theory that is just FACT. Ranger was the bow wielding profession and a specialist of said weapon. Why has this been lost in the 200+ years? Now they are going even farther away from it making GS a more viable weapon in almost EVERY top teir build? This needs to change… Rangers need to be feared and all I see is them being the laughing stock of the game.

You seem to have no idea about how this game is balanced. Ranged weapons generally do less damage compared to melee, to balance risk/reward. Bows are already a strong single target ranged option.

Also you might not have noticed, but ranger gets significant buffs for PvP (in the form of more utility/survivability) as well as PvE. Yes, you lose out on a couple of damage modifiers, but make up for it with better rotations thanks to Quick Draw.

I’m getting tired of these “hurr durr ranger = ranged just remove sword/greatsword buff bows” posts.

I could care less if you are tired of hearing it… It is facts that I have stated above that have ruined the RANGER gameplay. If you want swords and kitten by all means you have classes for that. Give me back mine. Link is above if you can read it go try it out. I’m tired of being subjigated to WoW, DnD,EverQuest, and on and on. The Guild Wars Ranger was very specific and I’d like it back

Compare Eles meteor storm with barrage on a damage calculator over lets say 60 seconds. Compare rapid fire with thousands blades over 60 seconds and compare the number on the dummies to get a full representation of the “solid” numbers. Ranger just does not compete. I’ve tested it. Maybe you should try it. Yes I know they are stationary targets but that is the best representation to make sure EVERY hit connects.

@ Natfrog
Fact: Ranger out DPSs warrior, especially a PS warrior (for personal DPS)
Fact: Melee is more risk, therefore more reward.
Fact: Ranger LB is the highest ranged damage weapon with the longest range.
Fact: Melee Rangers in GW1 were immensely popular, most HA builds that ran them were considered ‘cheese’ because they were so effective. Ever play R/A or R/D?

You have displayed your ignorance of Ranger, move along.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

@ Natfrog
Fact: Ranger out DPSs warrior, especially a PS warrior (for personal DPS)
Fact: Melee is more risk, therefore more reward.
Fact: Ranger LB is the highest ranged damage weapon with the longest range.
Fact: Melee Rangers in GW1 were immensely popular, most HA builds that ran them were considered ‘cheese’ because they were so effective. Ever play R/A or R/D?

You have displayed your ignorance of Ranger, move along.

FACT: Ranger out DPS warrior is just a flat out lie and you know it.
FACT: Mele is not more risk when gap closers are REAL. Mele usually has more access to survivability in the form of invulns and blocks AND as much endurance as the ranged class
FACT: Ranger LB is the highest damage ranged weapon until said weapon is forced into close combat and is then almost ineffective
FACT: There was no mele ranger in GW1… That said there were cross professions that utilized ranger as main for the better energy management.

ATTENTION
Everyone who keeps talking about the “loose” of damage modifiers…
… We didn’t loose a single one. We got one for PvE in return.

Before the changes you couldn’t afford to take all the steroids and boosts. Yes, you had a choice to take them – but by doing so you lost the access to the rest.

Currently you have better access to steroids than before. This is a fact.

Tragic Positive.9356:

ATTENTION
Everyone who keeps talking about the “loose” of damage modifiers…
… We didn’t loose a single one. We got one for PvE in return.

Before the changes you couldn’t afford to take all the steroids and boosts. Yes, you had a choice to take them – but by doing so you lost the access to the rest.

Currently you have better access to steroids than before. This is a fact.

Master Trait X.png Eagle Eye Increases longbow and harpoon gun range. Longbow and harpoon gun damage is increased.

Grandmaster Trait ranger.png Hunter’s Tactics Deal more damage while flanking.
You were saying?

You know nothing, Natfrog.

Natfrog.4310:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

@ Natfrog
Fact: Ranger out DPSs warrior, especially a PS warrior (for personal DPS)
Fact: Melee is more risk, therefore more reward.
Fact: Ranger LB is the highest ranged damage weapon with the longest range.
Fact: Melee Rangers in GW1 were immensely popular, most HA builds that ran them were considered ‘cheese’ because they were so effective. Ever play R/A or R/D?

You have displayed your ignorance of Ranger, move along.

FACT: Ranger out DPS warrior is just a flat out lie and you know it.
FACT: Mele is not more risk when gap closers are REAL. Mele usually has more access to survivability in the form of invulns and blocks AND as much endurance as the ranged class
FACT: Ranger LB is the highest damage ranged weapon until said weapon is forced into close combat and is then almost ineffective
FACT: There was no mele ranger in GW1… That said there were cross professions that utilized ranger as main for the better energy management.

Actually, the only reason warriors are taken in every pve party isn’t their dps but their party buffs in the form of banners. Yes, ranger produces smaller numbers and you won’t see as many BIG NUMBERS, yet damage per second is definitely up there with warrior if you would actually take the time to learn how to use Sword/Axe.

A longbow not being a good close quarters weapon? Oh really? Who would’ve guessed?

Melee ranger not being a thing in GW1 isn’t a reason at all why it shouldn’t exist in GW2.

Natfrog.4310:

Tragic Positive.9356:

ATTENTION
Everyone who keeps talking about the “loose” of damage modifiers…
… We didn’t loose a single one. We got one for PvE in return.

Before the changes you couldn’t afford to take all the steroids and boosts. Yes, you had a choice to take them – but by doing so you lost the access to the rest.

Currently you have better access to steroids than before. This is a fact.

Master Trait X.png Eagle Eye Increases longbow and harpoon gun range. Longbow and harpoon gun damage is increased.

Grandmaster Trait ranger.png Hunter’s Tactics Deal more damage while flanking.
You were saying?

We get quick draw instead, and being able to use Path of Scars and Rapifire twice every rotation makes up for the lost damage modifiers. Also Hunter’s tactics now increases crit chance, so it’s still a slight dps boost for pve.

I went back and looked at my numbers as well and we didn’t loose much of anything, it’s probably going to be a PVE buff with new builds instead of hanging on to old power build setups.

We most definitely got a PVP buff, with a bit of work i could see rangers being one of the go to PVP professions. Some of these builds will work for WvW roaming as well.

@Natfrog
Ranger out DPS warrior pre patch. flat out. Math doesn’t lie
ranger has access to the best invuln in the game, it’s called dodging. we have very high vigor uptime too
if LB is supposed to be for range why would you want the fight to get close and still use it? that statement makes no sense
Fact: this isn’t GW1.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You know nothing, Natfrog.

This is how you come back? I could care less what you sit at your desk and type I have done the physical effort to compare these things. You only claim you have which is how I know you are wrong. I want a ranged class on my ranged class. I’ve never said get rid of swords. If you like that then by all means but we both know there is no REAL great bow class in this game. It’s completely ok that an ele can blast you for 4k per hit with meteor shower but as soon as a ranger hits 1.5k per hit with Barrage it’s OP right? It’s ok in ~5 seconds a warrior can thousand blades you for 2.5k per hit but as soon as a ranger hits you for 1.5k per rapid fire it’s OP right? Never mind a single dodge will evade 4-5 of those shots or that the projectiles can be reflected or destroyed or the entire rapid fire can be blocked with a shield right? Warriors defenately do not have a mechanic to use adrenaline for a single 5-8k hit right? They cannot close the gap with a sword rush and smack me in the face for another 4k right? Lets not even talk about eviscerate.