Guild Wars 2

Prophet.1584:

I went back and looked at my numbers as well and we didn’t loose much of anything, it’s probably going to be a PVE buff with new builds instead of hanging on to old power build setups.

We most definitely got a PVP buff, with a bit of work i could see rangers being one of the go to PVP professions. Some of these builds will work for WvW roaming as well.

@Natfrog
Ranger out DPS warrior pre patch. flat out. Math doesn’t lie
ranger has access to the best invuln in the game, it’s called dodging. we have very high vigor uptime too
if LB is supposed to be for range why would you want the fight to get close and still use it? that statement makes no sense
Fact: this isn’t GW1.

You cannot keep an enemy at range so range is not really a factor at all. Sure if you hit an AFK player MAYBE it will help but if they are fighting back not so much. Invuln is not a viable go to with the mass amounts of condis you find on higher tier servers. Venom builds can gank you almost instantly through sig of stone.

Natfrog.4310:

Tragic Positive.9356:

ATTENTION
Everyone who keeps talking about the “loose” of damage modifiers…
… We didn’t loose a single one. We got one for PvE in return.

Before the changes you couldn’t afford to take all the steroids and boosts. Yes, you had a choice to take them – but by doing so you lost the access to the rest.

Currently you have better access to steroids than before. This is a fact.

Master Trait X.png Eagle Eye Increases longbow and harpoon gun range. Longbow and harpoon gun damage is increased.

Grandmaster Trait ranger.png Hunter’s Tactics Deal more damage while flanking.
You were saying?

You mean that Eagle Eye that had ZERO place in PvE meta, and Deal more Damage while flanking that is the even higher steroid in PvE meta than before?
(10% crit with 200% Crit Damage is the same as 10% flat damage boost. But you see, I currently have 219% crit damage on my ranger. This is a buff to both direct and condi builds)

Sir, you have no idea how Ranger and his mechanics work. I’d like you to stop being skeptical if you have no idea what the outcome is.

Prophet.1584:

I went back and looked at my numbers as well and we didn’t loose much of anything, it’s probably going to be a PVE buff with new builds instead of hanging on to old power build setups.

We most definitely got a PVP buff, with a bit of work i could see rangers being one of the go to PVP professions. Some of these builds will work for WvW roaming as well.

@Natfrog
Ranger out DPS warrior pre patch. flat out. Math doesn’t lie
ranger has access to the best invuln in the game, it’s called dodging. we have very high vigor uptime too
if LB is supposed to be for range why would you want the fight to get close and still use it? that statement makes no sense
Fact: this isn’t GW1.

Math on paper is not correct. Put it in practice. Use the in game mechanics and test it. Even with 80% crit chance and over tripple crit damage I CANNOT get the number over time as I can with EITHER ele or warrior.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Natfrog.4310:

Tragic Positive.9356:

ATTENTION
Everyone who keeps talking about the “loose” of damage modifiers…
… We didn’t loose a single one. We got one for PvE in return.

Before the changes you couldn’t afford to take all the steroids and boosts. Yes, you had a choice to take them – but by doing so you lost the access to the rest.

Currently you have better access to steroids than before. This is a fact.

Master Trait X.png Eagle Eye Increases longbow and harpoon gun range. Longbow and harpoon gun damage is increased.

Grandmaster Trait ranger.png Hunter’s Tactics Deal more damage while flanking.
You were saying?

You mean that Eagle Eye that had ZERO place in PvE meta, and Deal more Damage while flanking that is the even higher steroid in PvE meta than before?
(10% crit with 200% Crit Damage is the same as 10% flat damage boost. But you see, I currently have 219% crit damage on my ranger. This is a buff to both direct and condi builds)

Sir, you have no idea how Ranger and his mechanics work. I’d like you to stop being skeptical if you have no idea what the outcome is.

Maybe I do not “stack here”. Maybe I stack off to the “FLANK” while my pet is in the stack. Flat 10% dmage from flanking is WAY more because it influences your damage before the crit applies further boosting said damage. I am a RANGER not a warrior. I do not stand on a stack.

you have the same impression a lot of players seem to have. looking at the numbers on screen tells you a lot less than math does. warrior is a spike damage class, same as ele and thief. Ranger is a sustain damage class. depending on the length of a fight in pve is how damage calculations get done and the longer the fight goes the more a ranger can out dps a warrior.

in wvw it’s different, like in pvp, and spike helps down opponents quickly but that’s where defensive utilities come in like SoS, Protect me and such, they help you mitigate the spike so you can out dps your opponent.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Natfrog.4310:

Tragic Positive.9356:

ATTENTION
Everyone who keeps talking about the “loose” of damage modifiers…
… We didn’t loose a single one. We got one for PvE in return.

Before the changes you couldn’t afford to take all the steroids and boosts. Yes, you had a choice to take them – but by doing so you lost the access to the rest.

Currently you have better access to steroids than before. This is a fact.

Master Trait X.png Eagle Eye Increases longbow and harpoon gun range. Longbow and harpoon gun damage is increased.

Grandmaster Trait ranger.png Hunter’s Tactics Deal more damage while flanking.
You were saying?

You mean that Eagle Eye that had ZERO place in PvE meta, and Deal more Damage while flanking that is the even higher steroid in PvE meta than before?
(10% crit with 200% Crit Damage is the same as 10% flat damage boost. But you see, I currently have 219% crit damage on my ranger. This is a buff to both direct and condi builds)

Sir, you have no idea how Ranger and his mechanics work. I’d like you to stop being skeptical if you have no idea what the outcome is.

Eagle eye that had no place in said META? Exactly my problem with this META. If a classes main use is not viable it is in fact BROKEN. Thank you for making that even more clear. A RANGER that has it’s SPECIALIZED weapon be ineffective means it is in fact broken.

Natfrog.4310:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You know nothing, Natfrog.

This is how you come back? I could care less what you sit at your desk and type I have done the physical effort to compare these things. You only claim you have which is how I know you are wrong. I want a ranged class on my ranged class. I’ve never said get rid of swords. If you like that then by all means but we both know there is no REAL great bow class in this game. It’s completely ok that an ele can blast you for 4k per hit with meteor shower but as soon as a ranger hits 1.5k per hit with Barrage it’s OP right? It’s ok in ~5 seconds a warrior can thousand blades you for 2.5k per hit but as soon as a ranger hits you for 1.5k per rapid fire it’s OP right? Never mind a single dodge will evade 4-5 of those shots or that the projectiles can be reflected or destroyed or the entire rapid fire can be blocked with a shield right? Warriors defenately do not have a mechanic to use adrenaline for a single 5-8k hit right? They cannot close the gap with a sword rush and smack me in the face for another 4k right? Lets not even talk about eviscerate.

At this point you should probably just stop.
1.5k rapidfire? What kind of stats are you using? Settlers?
If you have problems with warriors hundred blading you, the problem isn’t Hundred Blades, it’s you. That skill should never be a problem in pvp since you can just walk away/dodge/knockback/block it.
Also, who would’ve guessed, Eviscerate has a pretty obvious animation that is entirely dodgeable. Did I mention ranger has plenty of evades/dodges?

You totally can’t knock back that gap closing warrior, right? you totally can’t stealth and reposition yourself, right? you can’t use GS4 to block and knockback them, right? you can’t immobilize them, especially not with entangle thorugh their shield block, right? You can’t fear them away with a wolf, right?

It’s a l2p issue. Not a balance issue. Get over it.

Prophet.1584:

you have the same impression a lot of players seem to have. looking at the numbers on screen tells you a lot less than math does. warrior is a spike damage class, same as ele and thief. Ranger is a sustain damage class. depending on the length of a fight in pve is how damage calculations get done and the longer the fight goes the more a ranger can out dps a warrior.

in wvw it’s different, like in pvp, and spike helps down opponents quickly but that’s where defensive utilities come in like SoS, Protect me and such, they help you mitigate the spike so you can out dps your opponent.

There was a reason skills were split in GW1 between PvP and PvE. Players react differently and have different skills but yet because a RANGER is FORCED to be mele it has to be balanced around mele? Maybe other classes need to be FORCED to make changed to deal with ranged for a change. Instead of taking that increased might trait maybe they need to take a movement trait instead. This game is all about choice but yet it’s “unfair” that a ranger can shoot you from range? It’s ok a thief can drop half your bar in one strike and this is ok? My warrior can easily tank a thief but my ranger cannot.

coax.2951:

Natfrog.4310:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You know nothing, Natfrog.

This is how you come back? I could care less what you sit at your desk and type I have done the physical effort to compare these things. You only claim you have which is how I know you are wrong. I want a ranged class on my ranged class. I’ve never said get rid of swords. If you like that then by all means but we both know there is no REAL great bow class in this game. It’s completely ok that an ele can blast you for 4k per hit with meteor shower but as soon as a ranger hits 1.5k per hit with Barrage it’s OP right? It’s ok in ~5 seconds a warrior can thousand blades you for 2.5k per hit but as soon as a ranger hits you for 1.5k per rapid fire it’s OP right? Never mind a single dodge will evade 4-5 of those shots or that the projectiles can be reflected or destroyed or the entire rapid fire can be blocked with a shield right? Warriors defenately do not have a mechanic to use adrenaline for a single 5-8k hit right? They cannot close the gap with a sword rush and smack me in the face for another 4k right? Lets not even talk about eviscerate.

At this point you should probably just stop.
1.5k rapidfire? What kind of stats are you using? Settlers?
If you have problems with warriors hundred blading you, the problem isn’t Hundred Blades, it’s you. That skill should never be a problem in pvp since you can just walk away/dodge/knockback/block it.
Also, who would’ve guessed, Eviscerate has a pretty obvious animation that is entirely dodgeable. Did I mention ranger has plenty of evades/dodges?

You totally can’t knock back that gap closing warrior, right? you totally can’t stealth and reposition yourself, right? you can’t use GS4 to block and knockback them, right? you can’t immobilize them, especially not with entangle thorugh their shield block, right? You can’t fear them away with a wolf, right?

It’s a l2p issue. Not a balance issue. Get over it.

1.5k = per hit yes for Zojja’s full ascended armor… Strength runes… Full ascended zerker trinkets/etc Full marks,and skirm. Using the food buff for 200 power after kill only jumps me up to MAYBE 1.8k per hit

can’t down a thief? 1.8k per hit???? l2p.
/drops mic
i’m out.

coax.2951:

Natfrog.4310:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

You know nothing, Natfrog.

This is how you come back? I could care less what you sit at your desk and type I have done the physical effort to compare these things. You only claim you have which is how I know you are wrong. I want a ranged class on my ranged class. I’ve never said get rid of swords. If you like that then by all means but we both know there is no REAL great bow class in this game. It’s completely ok that an ele can blast you for 4k per hit with meteor shower but as soon as a ranger hits 1.5k per hit with Barrage it’s OP right? It’s ok in ~5 seconds a warrior can thousand blades you for 2.5k per hit but as soon as a ranger hits you for 1.5k per rapid fire it’s OP right? Never mind a single dodge will evade 4-5 of those shots or that the projectiles can be reflected or destroyed or the entire rapid fire can be blocked with a shield right? Warriors defenately do not have a mechanic to use adrenaline for a single 5-8k hit right? They cannot close the gap with a sword rush and smack me in the face for another 4k right? Lets not even talk about eviscerate.

At this point you should probably just stop.
1.5k rapidfire? What kind of stats are you using? Settlers?
If you have problems with warriors hundred blading you, the problem isn’t Hundred Blades, it’s you. That skill should never be a problem in pvp since you can just walk away/dodge/knockback/block it.
Also, who would’ve guessed, Eviscerate has a pretty obvious animation that is entirely dodgeable. Did I mention ranger has plenty of evades/dodges?

You totally can’t knock back that gap closing warrior, right? you totally can’t stealth and reposition yourself, right? you can’t use GS4 to block and knockback them, right? you can’t immobilize them, especially not with entangle thorugh their shield block, right? You can’t fear them away with a wolf, right?

It’s a l2p issue. Not a balance issue. Get over it.

Why would I go MELE on a RANGER? Haveing access to that is one thing but frocing me to use it is another. I play a ranger because it is “supposed” to be the best at ranged combat. If I was going to use a GS I would just go Warrior. Why bother with a sub class for GS like ranger?

Prophet.1584:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzOx4eReKUM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYAYEScDwhg

can’t down a thief? 1.8k per hit???? l2p.
/drops mic
i’m out.

1st video 2014… seems viable?
2nd video thief almost completely dead fighting a SENTRY?
Bring better evidence or GTFO. Obvious troll is obvious… Brushes off mic hands it back

Natfrog.4310:

Why would I go MELE on a RANGER? Haveing access to that is one thing but frocing me to use it is another. I play a ranger because it is “supposed” to be the best at ranged combat. If I was going to use a GS I would just go Warrior. Why bother with a sub class for GS like ranger?

Because maybe a longbow isn’t the best choice of weapon once your opponent is standing literally in front of you.

Weapon swaps are a thing, you know? A thing that lets you adapt to different situations, you know? So why not, you know, start with longbow and swap to GS when he gets close? Or maybe if you really like your longbow, try and immobilize or knockback every once in a while?

Natfrog.4310:

Bring better evidence or GTFO. Obvious troll is obvious… Brushes off mic hands it back

You are the troll my friend. If you want to be ignorant about everything this class is exept for the longbow, go and vent your incompetence somewhere else.

coax.2951:

Natfrog.4310:

Why would I go MELE on a RANGER? Haveing access to that is one thing but frocing me to use it is another. I play a ranger because it is “supposed” to be the best at ranged combat. If I was going to use a GS I would just go Warrior. Why bother with a sub class for GS like ranger?

Because maybe a longbow isn’t the best choice of weapon once your opponent is standing literally in front of you.

Weapon swaps are a thing, you know? A thing that lets you adapt to different situations, you know? So why not, you know, start with longbow and swap to GS when he gets close? Or maybe if you really like your longbow, try and immobilize or knockback every once in a while?

But that is exactly the point. I had ZERO issues using a bow in GW1 at ANY range but yet in GW2 the programming for up close combat is just bad. It needs to be fixed.

Natfrog.4310:

coax.2951:

Natfrog.4310:

Why would I go MELE on a RANGER? Haveing access to that is one thing but frocing me to use it is another. I play a ranger because it is “supposed” to be the best at ranged combat. If I was going to use a GS I would just go Warrior. Why bother with a sub class for GS like ranger?

Because maybe a longbow isn’t the best choice of weapon once your opponent is standing literally in front of you.

Weapon swaps are a thing, you know? A thing that lets you adapt to different situations, you know? So why not, you know, start with longbow and swap to GS when he gets close? Or maybe if you really like your longbow, try and immobilize or knockback every once in a while?

But that is exactly the point. I had ZERO issues using a bow in GW1 at ANY range but yet in GW2 the programming for up close combat is just bad. It needs to be fixed.

Back to GW1 with you then.

coax.2951:

Natfrog.4310:

Why would I go MELE on a RANGER? Haveing access to that is one thing but frocing me to use it is another. I play a ranger because it is “supposed” to be the best at ranged combat. If I was going to use a GS I would just go Warrior. Why bother with a sub class for GS like ranger?

Because maybe a longbow isn’t the best choice of weapon once your opponent is standing literally in front of you.

Weapon swaps are a thing, you know? A thing that lets you adapt to different situations, you know? So why not, you know, start with longbow and swap to GS when he gets close? Or maybe if you really like your longbow, try and immobilize or knockback every once in a while?

Natfrog.4310:

Bring better evidence or GTFO. Obvious troll is obvious… Brushes off mic hands it back

You are the troll my friend. If you want to be ignorant about everything this class is exept for the longbow, go and vent your incompetence somewhere else.

It seems to me we have a warrior in a ranger thread. I am, unlike you, a dire hard ranger fan of the Guild Wars universe and I’m ashamed of where the ranger is in this game. Traps that hit only 3 targets. Bows that do minimal damage at closer ranges. AoE skills that lack punch. You see a barrage you literally stand in it and laugh in WvW. You see meteor shower and you move ASAP as it will kill you off 1 cast! This is not balanced by any means.

coax.2951:

Natfrog.4310:

coax.2951:

Natfrog.4310:

Why would I go MELE on a RANGER? Haveing access to that is one thing but frocing me to use it is another. I play a ranger because it is “supposed” to be the best at ranged combat. If I was going to use a GS I would just go Warrior. Why bother with a sub class for GS like ranger?

Because maybe a longbow isn’t the best choice of weapon once your opponent is standing literally in front of you.

Weapon swaps are a thing, you know? A thing that lets you adapt to different situations, you know? So why not, you know, start with longbow and swap to GS when he gets close? Or maybe if you really like your longbow, try and immobilize or knockback every once in a while?

But that is exactly the point. I had ZERO issues using a bow in GW1 at ANY range but yet in GW2 the programming for up close combat is just bad. It needs to be fixed.

Back to GW1 with you then.

Or maybe I can voice my opinion and MAYBE it will get seen. Your arguement of going back to GW1 is invalid as I still play quite frequently. I just also like the ideas behind this game but feel certain aspects need to get back in line.

Seems to me the only people argueing are the people that do not want ranger in the top tier period. Maybe the problem is you cannot deal with the elite players that are above and beyond the threshhold so making the class ACTUALLY good would mean instant death for you? All I want is for the playing field to be even across the board. If they not going to buff ranger then nerf the other classes that ALREADY FAR out preform the ranger.

I am, unlike you, a dire hard ranger fan of the Guild Wars universe and I’m ashamed of where the ranger is in this game.

My ranger is still my main character in this game and I’ve spent countless hours on it. With the upcoming trait rework we should be in a great spot for PvP. For PvE ranger works just fine, just because you don’t see rangers in record runs very often doesn’t mean the class is completely useless for PvE. They don’t have a set spot in groups like thiefs, eles or warriors do, but they sure as hell aren’t useless. Compare to necro, that class is even worse off for PvE. In WvW zerging ranger will still be lackluster, true. Decent for roaming though.

Traps that hit only 3 targets.

Traps are lackluster, I give you that.

Bows that do minimal damage at closer ranges.

Maybe because it’s a ranged weapon. Ranged. Melee weapons are a thing.

AoE skills that lack punch.

Ranger = single target ranged damage, Ele = AoE
That’s the way it is and it won’t change.

Seems to me the only people argueing are the people that do not want ranger in the top tier period.

So what you are asking is to make longbow the best dps weapon in the game, from what you’ve posted so far. That’s not going to ever happen. Ever. Get over it.

For PvP you should wait for the upcoming trait changes. They are buffing ranger a lot for PvP, will see if it’s enough to push them into the meta. Time will tell.
PvE ranger, well, won’t be part of record runs anytime soon, but S/A + LB frost spotter can easily be a good addition to most dungeon groups, and lots of people know this.

Here’s a goodie for you: the new pve build after the patch will probably include longbow as a set part of the rotation, so you will actually use it for more than the inital opening burst.

If the only thing you want (and it sure looks like it from what you’ve posted here) is rangers purely running longbow for every gamemode and situation ever, while still having the best dps in the game, you will be disappointed. Take the time to actually give the other ranger weapons and playstyles a try.

And if you absolutely refuse to do that, just open your own groups and voila, you can now enjoy pew pewing stuff with your longbow from range all day long and nobody will disturb you.

coax.2951:

I am, unlike you, a dire hard ranger fan of the Guild Wars universe and I’m ashamed of where the ranger is in this game.

My ranger is still my main character in this game and I’ve spent countless hours on it. With the upcoming trait rework we should be in a great spot for PvP. For PvE ranger works just fine, just because you don’t see rangers in record runs very often doesn’t mean the class is completely useless for PvE. They don’t have a set spot in groups like thiefs, eles or warriors do, but they sure as hell aren’t useless. Compare to necro, that class is even worse off for PvE. In WvW zerging ranger will still be lackluster, true. Decent for roaming though.

Traps that hit only 3 targets.

Traps are lackluster, I give you that.

Bows that do minimal damage at closer ranges.

Maybe because it’s a ranged weapon. Ranged. Melee weapons are a thing.

AoE skills that lack punch.

Ranger = single target ranged damage, Ele = AoE
That’s the way it is and it won’t change.

Seems to me the only people argueing are the people that do not want ranger in the top tier period.

So what you are asking is to make longbow the best dps weapon in the game, from what you’ve posted so far. That’s not going to ever happen. Ever. Get over it.

For PvP you should wait for the upcoming trait changes. They are buffing ranger a lot for PvP, will see if it’s enough to push them into the meta. Time will tell.
PvE ranger, well, won’t be part of record runs anytime soon, but S/A + LB frost spotter can easily be a good addition to most dungeon groups, and lots of people know this.

Here’s a goodie for you: the new pve build after the patch will probably include longbow as a set part of the rotation, so you will actually use it for more than the inital opening burst.

If the only thing you want (and it sure looks like it from what you’ve posted here) is rangers purely running longbow for every gamemode and situation ever, while still having the best dps in the game, you will be disappointed. Take the time to actually give the other ranger weapons and playstyles a try.

And if you absolutely refuse to do that, just open your own groups and voila, you can now enjoy pew pewing stuff with your longbow from range all day long and nobody will disturb you.

What you are trying to do is make me play your way… If I want to play with mele I will play warrior. If I want to use condis I’ll play necro. If I want to heal I’ll play ele/engi/warrior/guard. They are best at those things. I cannot say if I want to play ranged I’ll play Ranger… I just can’t. Warrior is just as good if not better with a bow. Ele can dish out more damage and more consistantly with both single and multiple targets along with huge party buffs. Where does the ranger fit? What does the ranger offer? He offers nothing that isn’t already outclasses. Period why can you not understand what the rangers community wants is what should be natural to the class that has NOTHING?

Warrior is just as good if not better with a bow.

I don’t even. Warrior bow certainly is a good weapon, but it serves entirely different purposes compared to ranger’s longbow.

Period why can you not understand what the rangers community wants is what should be natural to the class that has NOTHING?

Ranger has plenty of things going for it, yet you choose to ignore most of them and then complain about it.
You should go ahead and complain in the warrior forums that you demand mainhand mace to now be as much of a dps weapon than greatsword or axe since you feel warrior should be the class that wields maces and every other weapon feels wrong when you play warrior.

coax.2951:

Warrior is just as good if not better with a bow.

I don’t even. Warrior bow certainly is a good weapon, but it serves entirely different purposes compared to ranger’s longbow.

Period why can you not understand what the rangers community wants is what should be natural to the class that has NOTHING?

Ranger has plenty of things going for it, yet you choose to ignore most of them and then complain about it.
You should go ahead and complain in the warrior forums that you demand mainhand mace to now be as much of a dps weapon than greatsword or axe since you feel warrior should be the class that wields maces and every other weapon feels wrong when you play warrior.

If that were true it would be a go to class when running dungeons,PvP, or WvW which it is not. I see maybe a TOTAL of 5 rangers the entire zerg or roaming as other classes outclass them in their usefulness. PvP you see the occasional ranger here and there and they do ok but when they are doing good all it takes is one decent OTHER class and they just die. Dungeons are just laughable and you said your self you NEVER see them in SPEED runs because their DPS is MUCH lower than other classes can put out. You keep running circle around your own posts because no matter what the META is EXACTLY that. It IS the META because it IS the BEST way to something. Ranger is in NO META build anywhere and that is just FACT. When you see the ranger or hear them on TS they always say I’m getting on my OTHER character. Why would they do this if the class is in a good spot?

coax.2951:

Warrior is just as good if not better with a bow.

I don’t even. Warrior bow certainly is a good weapon, but it serves entirely different purposes compared to ranger’s longbow.

Period why can you not understand what the rangers community wants is what should be natural to the class that has NOTHING?

Ranger has plenty of things going for it, yet you choose to ignore most of them and then complain about it.
You should go ahead and complain in the warrior forums that you demand mainhand mace to now be as much of a dps weapon than greatsword or axe since you feel warrior should be the class that wields maces and every other weapon feels wrong when you play warrior.

Why would I dare say a mele character feels wrong wielding a mele weapon? I have said it feels wrong being better than a ranger with a bow… I’ll grant you that.

Natfrog.4310:

coax.2951:

Warrior is just as good if not better with a bow.

I don’t even. Warrior bow certainly is a good weapon, but it serves entirely different purposes compared to ranger’s longbow.

Period why can you not understand what the rangers community wants is what should be natural to the class that has NOTHING?

Ranger has plenty of things going for it, yet you choose to ignore most of them and then complain about it.
You should go ahead and complain in the warrior forums that you demand mainhand mace to now be as much of a dps weapon than greatsword or axe since you feel warrior should be the class that wields maces and every other weapon feels wrong when you play warrior.

Why would I dare say a mele character feels wrong wielding a mele weapon? I have said it feels wrong being better than a ranger with a bow… I’ll grant you that.

…. could you go make a new thread where you ask people to teach you how to play ranger? Your opinions on how you “feel” a ranger “should” be played have nothing to do with this thread. Get back on topic or leave it alone.

The point I am making is I do not need to talk about sword as it does great where it is. I don’t need to talk about traps as they preform where they need to especially with the knockdown. What I am saying is the weapon designated to be a pure damage output does not preform well where it is at. The auto attack is fine. Rapid fire when compared to comparable skills (IE. Hundred blades) falls short by a BUNCH. Same with Barrage when compared to compareable skills (IE. Meteor storm). On paper they all seem very similar with the longbow skills causeing more damage but sadly in the game it is not the case at all. Thousand blades consecutively hits for 40k over about 9 hits. While rapid fire hits for 18k over 8 shots. Barrage on paper shows MASSIVE damage if calculated out but in reality only hits for about 10k on a single target start to finish. Meteor storm even though it is random it averages out to about 25k. These are MASSIVE differences in damage. While these are stationary targets that is even more reason to buff the damage as we all know players are NOT stationary very long. The arguement that you can simply walk out of thousands blades is kinda redundant because all you have to do is dodge roll and you evade MOST of the arrows and the ones that do hit are like flea bites and barely hurt even from a full zerk ranger.

please don’t feed the trolls
It is unkind and unnecessary.

Puck.9612:

Natfrog.4310:

coax.2951:

Warrior is just as good if not better with a bow.

I don’t even. Warrior bow certainly is a good weapon, but it serves entirely different purposes compared to ranger’s longbow.

Period why can you not understand what the rangers community wants is what should be natural to the class that has NOTHING?

Ranger has plenty of things going for it, yet you choose to ignore most of them and then complain about it.
You should go ahead and complain in the warrior forums that you demand mainhand mace to now be as much of a dps weapon than greatsword or axe since you feel warrior should be the class that wields maces and every other weapon feels wrong when you play warrior.

Why would I dare say a mele character feels wrong wielding a mele weapon? I have said it feels wrong being better than a ranger with a bow… I’ll grant you that.

…. could you go make a new thread where you ask people to teach you how to play ranger? Your opinions on how you “feel” a ranger “should” be played have nothing to do with this thread. Get back on topic or leave it alone.

See that there is the problem you and I have. You assume I am not good with “Ranger”. If you read I do not think the Longbow is balanced with other forms of similar damage. I’m not asking for everything to be buffed. I simply stated it’s a shame I must play something other than LB for the class to be good. I have no issue with GS having a dodge. I have no issue with sword having a double dodge and a flanking dodge. I have a problem with the weapon that has NONE of that and was ALWAYS meant to be the damage dealer for the ranger being subpar at best and out damaged by the one handed weapon with the greatsword being next and the Longbow being almost outclasses by every other weapon the ranger has. It is a ranger for a reason.

If you don’t like Ranger, go elsewhere.

I’ll say it again,
Ranger does better damage than Warrior with melee.
Ranger does the best Ranged damage in the game.

If you think melee rangers in GW1 were not a thing, you didn’t play much competitively.

You realise you can use RF 3 times for every Meteor Shower? So, using your numbers, it does better DPS. Just saying.

Ranger is not called Ranger because of range, as in distance a projectile flys, it is the verb; to pass over or through (an area or region) in all directions, as in exploring or searching.

I stick by my assertion that, you know nothing

This thread started out so nice…

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If you don’t like Ranger, go elsewhere.

I’ll say it again,
Ranger does better damage than Warrior with melee.
Ranger does the best Ranged damage in the game.

If you think melee rangers in GW1 were not a thing, you didn’t play much competitively.

You realise you can use RF 3 times for every Meteor Shower? So, using your numbers, it does better DPS. Just saying.

I stick by my assertion that, you know nothing

Why would you compare Rapid Fire to Meteor shower? I compared Barrage to Meteor Shower bro L2R.
Meteor shower has about a 3 second cast time stationary. Barrage about a 2.5 second cast time stationary. One hits like a truck every hit one roars like a kitten, you think they are equals?

Lets just all take a breather, eat a cookie, and get back to civilized discussion.

My mistake. Didn’t read properly.

Still, other points valid.

Also, you posted before I finished editing; Ranger is not called Ranger because of range, as in distance a projectile flys, it is the verb; to pass over or through (an area or region) in all directions, as in exploring or searching.

On topic (sorry for derailing/troll feeding….):

PvE ranger should be about the same, although the increased cooldown on spirits hurts.
One thing I would be interested in is that new spirit grandmaster trait. As others have already said, if it would pulse fury every 3 seconds, you could rack up a lot of vulnerability with remorseless, a role that’s currently occupied by engis. If rangers were to combine superior vuln stacking with party buffs from spotter/frost spirit, they could be in a better spot for pve.

PvP gets a lot of buffs, really exciting stuff.
Good buffs to survivability and utility. I assume lots of builds will run quick draw, simply because it offers so many situational combos. One of the best trait ideas they had in a while in my opinion.
Beastly Warden is soooo good and actually allows you to run something else than wolf for a change.

The “Traits with wrong idea/value” section is spot on.

Poison Master will never get picked at the moment. Just an idea though, why not make it increase the healing penalty from poison instead (maybe 33% -> 50%). That would make it a really strong trait with a defined niche, but you would lose out on your only condi remove traits. Either that or it needs to be moved, no sane person would pick the current poison master over wilderness knowledge.

Honed Axes proposed change is spot on, the ferocity just feels way misplaced and precision would be way more useful.

For MDG, either ramp up the might gain to be quicker or maybe give us a toughness boost depending on health% ? If they want us to stay under 50% for longer amounts of time we should get something that helps us survive at low health.

Light on your feet. I really want this trait to work since I like the idea, but as you said, the numbers are lackluster for a grandmaster trait. 5% and 4 seconds are way too low, longer duration and a stacking buff sounds like a reasonable idea to make it better.

I’ve always found invigorating bond to be a lackluster trait and to be honest, I don’t think it ever will be good if they keep the concept of it.

Ltomato.8649:

The 50% more Frost Spirit cooldown is HUGE for PvE. That is an effective 50% longer downtime on one of our best utilities, in exchange for an effective .5% boost to team damage. This is absolutely insane. It’s not a small change, it’s a gigantic one, and it’s really really not good for Rangers in PvE, where they already have a bad reputation.

The spirit effects linger, for several seconds after the spirit is gone. It won’t be a 50 % longer downtime as long as you are smart about when to use the active. We can kill it off before going out of combat now, that has it perks when the CD is increased.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

My mistake. Didn’t read properly.

Still, other points valid.

Also, you posted before I finished editing; Ranger is not called Ranger because of range, as in distance a projectile flys, it is the verb; to pass over or through (an area or region) in all directions, as in exploring or searching.

I’m still sorry the other point is not valid.
GW1=Rangers are unique in their ability to succeed with the help of, or even in spite of, their environment. Nature rituals allow them to manipulate the environment to hinder their enemies, or borrow the very power of creation to heal and aid their allies. They favor long-range combat, the bow being their weapon of choice, and can be especially effective from elevated locations such as bridges and cliffs. They are the only profession with the ability to charm animals, which then accompany them on their travels and assist them in battle, gaining experience and levels over time. Rangers are also blessed with survival skills that help keep them alive by causing regeneration of health.
GW2 =Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.
You have adapted to using mele because the class is NOT where it SHOULD be.
Again you are showing skills from the sword in you attachment and this isn’t an issue with those weapons.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger#Traits
You can put whichever spin you wish to put on it but my links are truth! Ranger is supposed to have the “go to weapon” be a bow and if I “feel” I’m better suited using a weapon of any other name the class is in fact misguided (at the very least) or broken.

I just don’t understand how we have the same dev team working on rangers and engi’s and engi’s are getting so much more love. Go take a look at all the red posts in their forum right now. People were upset about the nerf to speedy kits (even though they could still easily keep up perma swiftness) and they pretty much said, “Woops, let me take care of that for you. Okay, speedy kits now gives 20 seconds of swiftness.”

Could we get a dev to drop by here and discuss some of our concerns? Like how they stuck 2 GM condi removal traits in the same spot which pretty much ensures no one will use poison master.

I used melee ranger in HA for donkeys years, so no, I have not adapted to it in GW2.

Dude, you gotta stop reading the ANet Ranger description, it is half a decade old. Not to mention, still fairly accurate.

Natfrog.4310:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger#Traits
You can put whichever spin you wish to put on it but my links are truth! Ranger is supposed to have the “go to weapon” be a bow and if I “feel” I’m better suited using a weapon of any other name the class is in fact misguided (at the very least) or broken.

Get back on topic or go away. This is my last response to you unless you have something relevant to add to the conversation.

Natfrog.4310:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Natfrog.4310:

Tragic Positive.9356:

ATTENTION
Everyone who keeps talking about the “loose” of damage modifiers…
… We didn’t loose a single one. We got one for PvE in return.

Before the changes you couldn’t afford to take all the steroids and boosts. Yes, you had a choice to take them – but by doing so you lost the access to the rest.

Currently you have better access to steroids than before. This is a fact.

Master Trait X.png Eagle Eye Increases longbow and harpoon gun range. Longbow and harpoon gun damage is increased.

Grandmaster Trait ranger.png Hunter’s Tactics Deal more damage while flanking.
You were saying?

You mean that Eagle Eye that had ZERO place in PvE meta, and Deal more Damage while flanking that is the even higher steroid in PvE meta than before?
(10% crit with 200% Crit Damage is the same as 10% flat damage boost. But you see, I currently have 219% crit damage on my ranger. This is a buff to both direct and condi builds)

Sir, you have no idea how Ranger and his mechanics work. I’d like you to stop being skeptical if you have no idea what the outcome is.

Eagle eye that had no place in said META? Exactly my problem with this META. If a classes main use is not viable it is in fact BROKEN. Thank you for making that even more clear. A RANGER that has it’s SPECIALIZED weapon be ineffective means it is in fact broken.

Rangers main use in PvE is Spotter Trait and Frost Spirit. And that’s viable. Sir, please reconsider your replies. You fall into category of people with lack of knowledge and you keep misleading other people.

Your numbers are wrong, so are your “facts” and opinions. Even after being explained where is the mistake in your thought process, you keep being bullheaded without any argument whatsoever.

If you want to prove something – do it by proving it, not repeating something that has already been proven wrong.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I used melee ranger in HA for donkeys years, so no, I have not adapted to it in GW2.

Dude, you gotta stop reading the ANet Ranger description, it is half a decade old. Not to mention, still fairly accurate.

While as a Ranger only you used mele? I’m sure you did not as not bonus damage was recieved nor could you have used any of the higher required weapons. Again you miss the entire point. A Ranger was never a mele expert even though you could cross profession to use a mele weapon.

Poison master could stay there or go into skirmishing, Empathic Bond should probably be in BM.
MDG makes no sense as it is, 8+ seconds is a long time to be below 50% health. Also it’s hard to plan around a trait that only kicks in if your getting your butt kicked. adding in the new resistance(?) boon would be great so condi’s wouldn’t tick once you drop below 50%.
I kind of like LoYF but i don’t get the shortbow buff other than that it’s a skirmishing type weapon. a sword buff along with a strider’s defense sword buff would have been awesome.
invigorating bond is garbage. it needs to heal for double the amount to even be considerable. besides why take that when you can use HaO, TU or just Natural Regeneration.

edit: with the improved pet stats + Natural regeneration buffing healing power, would that make the invigorating bond heal worthwhile?

Natfrog.4310:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger#Traits
You can put whichever spin you wish to put on it but my links are truth! Ranger is supposed to have the “go to weapon” be a bow and if I “feel” I’m better suited using a weapon of any other name the class is in fact misguided (at the very least) or broken.

Actually, you’re misguided for not understanding the simple basics of how this game works.

And for that matter, the only reason rangers had bows as it main weapon in the first game was due to how the game was built around professions having weapon specific attributes. Several META ranger builds didn’t use bows at all in the first game. Staff for spirit spammers, hammer for the famous bunny thumper build, staff for touch rangers etc. etc. And vice versa, other professions like assassins and ritualist had working builds using a bow.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Natfrog.4310:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Natfrog.4310:

Tragic Positive.9356:

ATTENTION
Everyone who keeps talking about the “loose” of damage modifiers…
… We didn’t loose a single one. We got one for PvE in return.

Before the changes you couldn’t afford to take all the steroids and boosts. Yes, you had a choice to take them – but by doing so you lost the access to the rest.

Currently you have better access to steroids than before. This is a fact.

Master Trait X.png Eagle Eye Increases longbow and harpoon gun range. Longbow and harpoon gun damage is increased.

Grandmaster Trait ranger.png Hunter’s Tactics Deal more damage while flanking.
You were saying?

You mean that Eagle Eye that had ZERO place in PvE meta, and Deal more Damage while flanking that is the even higher steroid in PvE meta than before?
(10% crit with 200% Crit Damage is the same as 10% flat damage boost. But you see, I currently have 219% crit damage on my ranger. This is a buff to both direct and condi builds)

Sir, you have no idea how Ranger and his mechanics work. I’d like you to stop being skeptical if you have no idea what the outcome is.

Eagle eye that had no place in said META? Exactly my problem with this META. If a classes main use is not viable it is in fact BROKEN. Thank you for making that even more clear. A RANGER that has it’s SPECIALIZED weapon be ineffective means it is in fact broken.

Rangers main use in PvE is Spotter Trait and Frost Spirit. And that’s viable. Sir, please retire. You fall into category of people with lack of knowledge and you keep misleading other people.

Your numbers are wrong, so are your “facts” and opinions. Even after being explained where is the mistake in your thought process, you keep being bullheaded without any argument whatsoever.

If you want to prove something – do it by proving it, not repeating something that has already been proven wrong.

My numbers are wrong because I see them in game? Or my numbers are wrong because not one person can show me a single hit that matches said damage they THINK they are doing? I have hit low levels for a ton of damage with long range shot so the 7k he showed is not a guarenteed value nor can he hit that on a decent warrior. If I have 25 stack of might and they have 25 stacks of vuln and I hit an opening strike sure I can hit 7k on a low level easy. That is not a practicle application though.

Prophet.1584:

with the improved pet stats + Natural regeneration buffing healing power, would that make the invigorating bond heal worthwhile?

I don’t know about that. Even if Natural Regeneration’s Healing Power was buffed, it doesn’t make Invigorating Bond any more worthwhile. IB needs something more attached to it, be it condition cleanse, conversion, or supplying a specific strong boon like Resistance, Aegis, or Stability.

Prophet.1584:

edit: with the improved pet stats + Natural regeneration buffing healing power, would that make the invigorating bond heal worthwhile?

This is hard to say, but the Invigorating scales of your healing power, not your pet’s. But then again, things can change.
But I can see some interesting sustain thing going on with Invigorating Bond and Sylvan Hound paired. But then again… It’s just the combination that goes interesting. Not the trait itself.

Lazze.9870:

Natfrog.4310:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger#Traits
You can put whichever spin you wish to put on it but my links are truth! Ranger is supposed to have the “go to weapon” be a bow and if I “feel” I’m better suited using a weapon of any other name the class is in fact misguided (at the very least) or broken.

Actually, you’re misguided for not understanding the simple basics of how this game works.

And for that matter, the only reason rangers had bows as it main weapon in the first game was due to how the game was built around professions having weapon specific attributes. Several META ranger builds didn’t use bows at all in the first game. Staff for spirit spammers, hammer for the famous bunny thumper build, staff for touch rangers etc. etc. And vice versa, other professions like assassins and ritualist had working builds using a bow.

Now why would a game that had a specific mechanic for a specific class not be the correct way to play the class? Better yet why continue the class at all if not to accel at said mechanic?

true, i’m way more curious about the combo than the the trait in any way lol. basically the same as I am about LoYF, as it stands it’s just not good enough to see real use.

I’m just hoping natural regeneration continues to heal us as well as our pet. You’d think with all the trait changes they are making they could take the 2 seconds to correct the tool tip.

Any thoughts on if zerk is still going to be the go to gear set for PVE rangers? the same goes for ranger runes vs scholar runes. Maths will have to be done once the patch actually hits and things are more permanent. If axe or sb did more direct damage i could see rampagers competing with zerk for best dps.