Guild Wars 2

I’ve said this before and so have others, this particular nerf hits Rangers the hardest because stacking crit was the only real way to put us on par (damage wise) with other classes. Other classes didn’t generally stack crit because they usually are in the front lines. At least with us in the back lines, our damage was now respectable and we could survive.

Whoa. On a class with fundamentally garbage power-based damage you thought stacking crit damage did more for you than it does for other classes?

There was no amount of crit damage stacking you could do as a Ranger that other classes couldn’t do the same and multiply up from better base values.

The change hits ALL power-based damage dealers and it hits them proportionally.

@op

For agrument’s sake let’s assume total DPS for ranger is 70% for the ranger, 30% for the pet.

When ascended weapons we’re introduced the 5% direct damage upgrade applied only to the ranger itself so in essence ranger was left behind because pet damage didn’t increase (70% x 1.05 + 30% = 103.5% dps vs 105% dps on other classes like Warr)

Now if we consider the 10% damage nerf from the current state, pet’s aren’t losing any DPS whatsoever, and if the fix to pet ai is significant enough, we’ll pull more DPS if they are attacking and buffing properly (70%x1.05×0.9 + 30% = 96.15% dps vs 94.5%(105% x 0.9) dps on other classes like warr)

This isn’t necessarily the exactly numbers, but the nerf on overall character DPS and keeping(or increasing) a pet’s damage actually brings ranger DPS closer to warr DPS.

I would like to point out that the amount of crit damage will be nerfed is not as much as it seems. The devs have pointed out that they are replacing current gear that ha CD with Ferocity stats and that those stats will equally currect CD gear but with a 10% decrease. This means that, say you have 100% crit damage on your ranger, after the patch it will have enough points to equall 90% crit damage. In overall its not a huge nerf to CD.

HoMaki.4813:

@nike please be real… while ppl have normal attack 2-3k, we are critting 2k… so now we will crit less than warriors normal att dmg… and still they think pet can replace – 20% splitted dmg.. what is more than a funny… what is HILARIOUS…

The multiplier is being reduced across all classes, see if you follow me:

• Now
  Ranger: 500 damage + 80% multiplier = 900 damage
  Others: 800 damage + 80% multiplier = 1440 damage

• After
  Ranger: 500 damage + 70% multiplier = 850 damage (-50 damage)
  Others: 800 damage + 70% multiplier = 1360 damage (-80 damage)

That mean weaker classes like rangers will be less punished.

It means you should be playing condi damage as a Ranger to begin with .

I personally loved my cond ranger build, but I usually play in PvE … so yeah, power or get out.
Hopefully after the update it will be easier to change traits from PvE to WvW, so I’ll use my cond set again.

Nike.2631:

Whoa. On a class with fundamentally garbage power-based damage you thought stacking crit damage did more for you than it does for other classes?

There was no amount of crit damage stacking you could do as a Ranger that other classes couldn’t do the same and multiply up from better base values.

The change hits ALL power-based damage dealers and it hits them proportionally.

Are you here just to pick fights? I swear this sub-forum is a toxic cesspool of both ranger hate and self ranger hate. I don’t get it.

I think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Nike.2631:

Whoa. On a class with fundamentally garbage power-based damage you thought stacking crit damage did more for you than it does for other classes?

There was no amount of crit damage stacking you could do as a Ranger that other classes couldn’t do the same and multiply up from better base values.

The change hits ALL power-based damage dealers and it hits them proportionally.

Are you here just to pick fights? I swear this sub-forum is a toxic cesspool of both ranger hate and self ranger hate. I don’t get it.

I think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Sorry, but Nike is correct.

Forzani.2584:

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Nike.2631:

Whoa. On a class with fundamentally garbage power-based damage you thought stacking crit damage did more for you than it does for other classes?

There was no amount of crit damage stacking you could do as a Ranger that other classes couldn’t do the same and multiply up from better base values.

The change hits ALL power-based damage dealers and it hits them proportionally.

Are you here just to pick fights? I swear this sub-forum is a toxic cesspool of both ranger hate and self ranger hate. I don’t get it.

I think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Sorry, but Nike is correct.

So why does everything have to be a permanent DPS race? Rangers can still utilize critical damage well, why does it matter if it’s slightly weaker than other classes (Which no one has provided evidence towards, mind you.)

Seriously, who cares? If you enjoy the class, keep playing. It’s not like this game has dps checks built in or anything.

Also, as a previous poster mentioned, everyone seems to forget the pet in the equation, for whatever reason.

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Forzani.2584:

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Nike.2631:

Whoa. On a class with fundamentally garbage power-based damage you thought stacking crit damage did more for you than it does for other classes?

There was no amount of crit damage stacking you could do as a Ranger that other classes couldn’t do the same and multiply up from better base values.

The change hits ALL power-based damage dealers and it hits them proportionally.

Are you here just to pick fights? I swear this sub-forum is a toxic cesspool of both ranger hate and self ranger hate. I don’t get it.

I think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Sorry, but Nike is correct.

So why does everything have to be a permanent DPS race? Rangers can still utilize critical damage well, why does it matter if it’s slightly weaker than other classes (Which no one has provided evidence towards, mind you.)

Seriously, who cares? If you enjoy the class, keep playing. It’s not like this game has dps checks built in or anything.

Also, as a previous poster mentioned, everyone seems to forget the pet in the equation, for whatever reason.

After reading your comment I think quite possibly you misunderstood what he is saying.

Forzani.2584:

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Forzani.2584:

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Nike.2631:

Whoa. On a class with fundamentally garbage power-based damage you thought stacking crit damage did more for you than it does for other classes?

There was no amount of crit damage stacking you could do as a Ranger that other classes couldn’t do the same and multiply up from better base values.

The change hits ALL power-based damage dealers and it hits them proportionally.

Are you here just to pick fights? I swear this sub-forum is a toxic cesspool of both ranger hate and self ranger hate. I don’t get it.

I think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Sorry, but Nike is correct.

So why does everything have to be a permanent DPS race? Rangers can still utilize critical damage well, why does it matter if it’s slightly weaker than other classes (Which no one has provided evidence towards, mind you.)

Seriously, who cares? If you enjoy the class, keep playing. It’s not like this game has dps checks built in or anything.

Also, as a previous poster mentioned, everyone seems to forget the pet in the equation, for whatever reason.

After reading your comment I think quite possibly you misunderstood what he is saying.

Part of his comment insinuated that power based builds on rangers were worthless because they were mildly not optimal, which I don’t believe to be true. Obviously some classes are better at power builds, but I in no way believe we are at the bottom of the barrel.

Power based Sword/warhorn and GS builds work fine.

First thing. He was saying the nerf to crit damage hurts other classes more than Rangers …he was directing that at someone that was saying the opposite.

I am generally a Ranger advocate, but yes, Ranger power builds are the bottom of the barrel compared to other classes ….especially if the 70/30 ratio is accurate. It’s basic math.

….but yes, I also think a power build can work as I use one myself in WvW at times. The 70% rule still applies though.

The OP was complaining that Rangers were unfairly impacted by the reduction in Crit damage. REALITY compelled me to point out that A ) the reduction is absolutely proportional for EVERYONE, and B ) When you’re starting from a lower base (which Rangers do) the absolute magnitude of the loss is in fact smaller than other classes.

So, I am in fact against the “Ranger pity festival” this thread tried to throw.

Rangers have problems. The Ferocity change ISN’T ONE OF THEM.

Nike.2631:

The OP was complaining that Rangers were unfairly impacted by the reduction in Crit damage. REALITY compelled me to point out that A ) the reduction is absolutely proportional for EVERYONE, and B ) When you’re starting from a lower base (which Rangers do) the absolute magnitude of the loss is in fact smaller than other classes.

So, I am in fact against the “Ranger pity festival” this thread tried to throw.

Rangers have problems. The Ferocity change ISN’T ONE OF THEM.

See, I had it right !

HoMaki.4813:

Part of my first post in this thread was – what i am supposed to do with my gear and weapons? No chance, that i’m going to put my legendaries and ascended zerk gear in bank, and then craft new weapons and new ascended set just to adapt that ANET is forcing us to play melee style.
I’ve spent over a year farming to achive this what i got now, and im now forced to put that in a locker, and make new things.. No ty, it would be best to leave the game, than farm over 7-8k gold, which i ’ve invested in this ranger..
Because, they are, u want to confess or not, nerfing pure dmg, and forcing us to play condi-bunker-kittened melee style..
Thats the fact.

If you have a legendary like you are saying then well that can just simply change stats at anytime to what ever stat combo you want. As for ascended gear yeah you could make a new set or just have a exotic set or simply just not care and keep playing the class how you like if it works well that is.

Rangers are sustain, Others are burst.

Rangers can’t do huge numbers, others can.

That is why others will suffer more, because rangers deal huge damage through many small hits so while others suffer a 500 to 1000 damage reduction, Rangers only suffer 100-200 damage reduction.

solrik.6028:

Rangers are sustain, Others are burst.

Rangers can’t do huge numbers, others can.

That is why others will suffer more, because rangers deal huge damage through many small hits so while others suffer a 500 to 1000 damage reduction, Rangers only suffer 100-200 damage reduction.

Wow ur very bad at doing the Maths. It doesn’t matter how many hits make the damage. Since it’s percentual it affects rangers the exact same way.

Forzani.2584:

First thing. He was saying the nerf to crit damage hurts other classes more than Rangers …he was directing that at someone that was saying the opposite.

I am generally a Ranger advocate, but yes, Ranger power builds are the bottom of the barrel compared to other classes ….especially if the 70/30 ratio is accurate. It’s basic math.

….but yes, I also think a power build can work as I use one myself in WvW at times. The 70% rule still applies though.

depends. I made a build that goes 20/20/0/0/30 and ran cats and birds while in full zerker. Passive regen from traits or quickness on swap + pet hitting like a truck should not be underestimated. This build was a PvE build though. But +30% crit damage on pets, +10% crit damage on MH axe and spotter + 10% damage when 100% endurance gave me quite a bit of DPS.
Sure the build made you, the player, hit less, but it made your 30% from the pet shine.
This was during queens pavillion, and that build carried me through all bosses short of liadri. None of those bosses lasted more then 20 seconds at best.

It’s easy for Ranger to stack Vulnerability.

HoMaki.4813:

Part of my first post in this thread was – what i am supposed to do with my gear and weapons? No chance, that i’m going to put my legendaries and ascended zerk gear in bank, and then craft new weapons and new ascended set just to adapt that ANET is forcing us to play melee style.
I’ve spent over a year farming to achive this what i got now, and im now forced to put that in a locker, and make new things.. No ty, it would be best to leave the game, than farm over 7-8k gold, which i ’ve invested in this ranger..
Because, they are, u want to confess or not, nerfing pure dmg, and forcing us to play condi-bunker-kittened melee style..
Thats the fact.

Though it’s frustrating investing much in a class, you “should” already know the ranger class pretty well before investing expensive cosmetic (legendary) or ascended armor on the class. The ranger class hasn’t changed much – it’s still low DPS (pet dependent), and lack of “OMG abilities” as it ever was. The ferocity change affects all classes – if anything it affects other zerker dps classes MORE (numerical wise) reducing more damage on non-ranger classes (assuming zerker/dps build).

That is – I am not necessary saying the ranger is “completely” garbage. The class has two nice team-oriented DPS support that may be useful in a group play scenario:
1) spotter (grants 150 precision to party members)
2) frost spirit (with trait -70% chance increase of group’s damage by 10%)

Do I think ranger is fine the way it is? No it’s not. It’s still lacklsuter and the dreaded forced pet system (divided DPS) is terrible. The pet system is a major flaw…. and unfortunately I think it’s our developer’s goal to somehow make the system work but failing short on balance.

DeadlySynz.3471:

I’ve said this before and so have others, this particular nerf hits Rangers the hardest because stacking crit was the only real way to put us on par (damage wise) with other classes. Other classes didn’t generally stack crit because they usually are in the front lines. At least with us in the back lines, our damage was now respectable and we could survive.

Ranger DPS is 70% ranger, 30% pet, the 70% part will be nerfed but not the 30%. This patch affect the ranger the least. On the other hand, class with high crit rate will be nerfed the most: thieves, sword guardians with Right-Hand Strength, warriors with Heightened Focus.
Berserker will still be the best gear to use and Assassin will never be used again.

The pet gets “ferocity nerfed” too .

Assassin is fine if you’re a crit-proc build. True before, true now.

Prysin.8542:

Forzani.2584:

First thing. He was saying the nerf to crit damage hurts other classes more than Rangers …he was directing that at someone that was saying the opposite.

I am generally a Ranger advocate, but yes, Ranger power builds are the bottom of the barrel compared to other classes ….especially if the 70/30 ratio is accurate. It’s basic math.

….but yes, I also think a power build can work as I use one myself in WvW at times. The 70% rule still applies though.

depends. I made a build that goes 20/20/0/0/30 and ran cats and birds while in full zerker. Passive regen from traits or quickness on swap + pet hitting like a truck should not be underestimated. This build was a PvE build though. But +30% crit damage on pets, +10% crit damage on MH axe and spotter + 10% damage when 100% endurance gave me quite a bit of DPS.
Sure the build made you, the player, hit less, but it made your 30% from the pet shine.
This was during queens pavillion, and that build carried me through all bosses short of liadri. None of those bosses lasted more then 20 seconds at best.

Sounds good. Since I never PvE, but I bet that does a lot of damage. I am only concerned with WvW…and no matter what build or weapon set it always comes down to thieves for me. The pet is almost a liability for that encounter. Takes to long for the pet to realize where the Thief is after popping from stealth, and is a ready made source to help the Thief reenter stealth.

Nike.2631:

The OP was complaining that Rangers were unfairly impacted by the reduction in Crit damage. REALITY compelled me to point out that A ) the reduction is absolutely proportional for EVERYONE, and B ) When you’re starting from a lower base (which Rangers do) the absolute magnitude of the loss is in fact smaller than other classes.

So, I am in fact against the “Ranger pity festival” this thread tried to throw.

Rangers have problems. The Ferocity change ISN’T ONE OF THEM.

Wow, I’m really impressed with your confidence. The word “Knights” keeps popping into my head when I consider these changes.

Nike.2631:

The OP was complaining that Rangers were unfairly impacted by the reduction in Crit damage. REALITY compelled me to point out that A ) the reduction is absolutely proportional for EVERYONE, and B ) When you’re starting from a lower base (which Rangers do) the absolute magnitude of the loss is in fact smaller than other classes.

So, I am in fact against the “Ranger pity festival” this thread tried to throw.

Rangers have problems. The Ferocity change ISN’T ONE OF THEM.

Wow, I’m really impressed with your confidence. The word “Knights” keeps popping into my head when I consider these changes. We don’t always play like they expect.

Yeah knowing anything about math, ranger should lose the same % of damage as any other class.
If you compare the total damage lose to a class that hits harder, say the warrior. The warrior will lose more damage compared the to ranger overall, but the warrior will still hit ~ 30% harder then the ranger.

Remember that the pet will not be affected at all by ferocity since they have no crit damage bonus to begin with. So no DPS loss here.

BobbyT.7192:

Yeah knowing anything about math, ranger should lose the same % of damage as any other class.
If you compare the total damage lose to a class that hits harder, say the warrior. The warrior will lose more damage compared the to ranger overall, but the warrior will still hit ~ 30% harder then the ranger.

arkealia.2713:

Remember that the pet will not be affected at all by ferocity since they have no crit damage bonus to begin with. So no DPS loss here.

These math examples make my eyes gloss over but here goes.

Damage:
Warrior 1000 damage
Ranger 1000 damage (700 from Ranger, 300 from pet)

10% crit damage nerf

Damage:
Warrior – 1000 x90% = 900 damage post nerf
Ranger – 700 Ranger damage x 90% =630 +300 pet damage = 930

so post nerf Warrior hits for 900 damage, Ranger+ pet will hit for 930 damage.

Crit damage Ranger is effected less than other crit damage classes.

Forzani.2584:

Prysin.8542:

Forzani.2584:

First thing. He was saying the nerf to crit damage hurts other classes more than Rangers …he was directing that at someone that was saying the opposite.

I am generally a Ranger advocate, but yes, Ranger power builds are the bottom of the barrel compared to other classes ….especially if the 70/30 ratio is accurate. It’s basic math.

….but yes, I also think a power build can work as I use one myself in WvW at times. The 70% rule still applies though.

depends. I made a build that goes 20/20/0/0/30 and ran cats and birds while in full zerker. Passive regen from traits or quickness on swap + pet hitting like a truck should not be underestimated. This build was a PvE build though. But +30% crit damage on pets, +10% crit damage on MH axe and spotter + 10% damage when 100% endurance gave me quite a bit of DPS.
Sure the build made you, the player, hit less, but it made your 30% from the pet shine.
This was during queens pavillion, and that build carried me through all bosses short of liadri. None of those bosses lasted more then 20 seconds at best.

Sounds good. Since I never PvE, but I bet that does a lot of damage. I am only concerned with WvW…and no matter what build or weapon set it always comes down to thieves for me. The pet is almost a liability for that encounter. Takes to long for the pet to realize where the Thief is after popping from stealth, and is a ready made source to help the Thief reenter stealth.

it does do a ton of damage, however it has some issues, namely survivability.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQNAnXRjUqUyaHLWsQ1agoVgTsHHqQL69YWqv9XMRJSA-zUyAYLBRCCIRBiwAk8KiGblsIasqFMVJRUt3oIa1kCIihRA-w

i ran that in WvW not long ago. If you can just bind someone, so you can use Signet of the Wild to increase damage, and Quickening Zephyr for the pet so that the jaguar can just maul people down while you do your thing with the GS or axe offhand. The build is not easy to play, but with you, the player producing 4-6k crits with maul and pet doing 4-6k crits on its attacks, it is not a bad setup.

Prysin.8542:

Forzani.2584:

Prysin.8542:

Forzani.2584:

First thing. He was saying the nerf to crit damage hurts other classes more than Rangers …he was directing that at someone that was saying the opposite.

I am generally a Ranger advocate, but yes, Ranger power builds are the bottom of the barrel compared to other classes ….especially if the 70/30 ratio is accurate. It’s basic math.

….but yes, I also think a power build can work as I use one myself in WvW at times. The 70% rule still applies though.

depends. I made a build that goes 20/20/0/0/30 and ran cats and birds while in full zerker. Passive regen from traits or quickness on swap + pet hitting like a truck should not be underestimated. This build was a PvE build though. But +30% crit damage on pets, +10% crit damage on MH axe and spotter + 10% damage when 100% endurance gave me quite a bit of DPS.
Sure the build made you, the player, hit less, but it made your 30% from the pet shine.
This was during queens pavillion, and that build carried me through all bosses short of liadri. None of those bosses lasted more then 20 seconds at best.

Sounds good. Since I never PvE, but I bet that does a lot of damage. I am only concerned with WvW…and no matter what build or weapon set it always comes down to thieves for me. The pet is almost a liability for that encounter. Takes to long for the pet to realize where the Thief is after popping from stealth, and is a ready made source to help the Thief reenter stealth.

it does do a ton of damage, however it has some issues, namely survivability.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQNAnXRjUqUyaHLWsQ1agoVgTsHHqQL69YWqv9XMRJSA-zUyAYLBRCCIRBiwAk8KiGblsIasqFMVJRUt3oIa1kCIihRA-w

i ran that in WvW not long ago. If you can just bind someone, so you can use Signet of the Wild to increase damage, and Quickening Zephyr for the pet so that the jaguar can just maul people down while you do your thing with the GS or axe offhand. The build is not easy to play, but with you, the player producing 4-6k crits with maul and pet doing 4-6k crits on its attacks, it is not a bad setup.

Sounds like a ton of fun. My skill level isn’t high enough to pull it off though. My dodging and opponent skill recognition is really bad

Edit: What do you have instead of Shout Master. I assume that was an error

arkealia.2713:

Ranger DPS is 70% ranger, 30% pet, the 70% part will be nerfed but not the 30%. This patch affect the ranger the least. On the other hand, class with high crit rate will be nerfed the most: thieves, sword guardians with Right-Hand Strength, warriors with Heightened Focus.

This. Forzani gave a numerical example which demonstrates it quite clearly.

Think of it the other way around. If Anet were increasing crit damage, we’d be complaining that it benefits rangers the least because part of our damage comes from the pet and our pets don’t crit much. It’s the same thing. If a crit damage boost helps rangers the least, then a crit damage nerf hurts rangers the least.

Berserker will still be the best gear to use and Assassin will never be used again.

Assassin armor (prioritizes precision over power) alters a different aspect of damage than crit damage (which is what’s being nerfed).

When you have low precision, your damage has a tight distribution around regular damage.

When you have high precision, your damage has a tight distribution around crit damage.

When you have 50% precision, your damage has a broad, even distribution ranging from the lowest regular damage to the highest critical damage.

Assassin armor is about damage consistency. If you’re in that 50% range and want to increase the consistency of your damage, assassin armor can help you do that. Your average (mean) will go down slightly, but the tightening up of your damage distribution may be worth it for the more consistent result. (Likewise, if you have low precision, assassin armor makes your damage less consistent on top of improving average damage less than berserker.)

Because the nerf is moving the entire high crit damage range down, yes it will nerf assassin armor damage more than berserker. But if you got assassin armor for damage consistency, that aspect of it will be unchanged.

arkealia.2713:

Remember that the pet will not be affected at all by ferocity since they have no crit damage bonus to begin with. So no DPS loss here.

That depends on how they implement Ferocity. Yes pets don’t have a crit damage bonus. But everyone (including pets) automatically gets 50% extra damage on a crit. That is, if you have 0% crit damage, you do not do regular damage on a crit, you do 150% damage.

I’m really hoping Anet runs the numbers and implements Ferocity right. If it’s just a flat 10% reduction in crit damage across the board, it actually does the opposite of what they’re trying to do (make other builds beside berserker viable) and nerfs non-berserker builds more than berserker builds.

e.g. Cat with 59% crit rate and 0% crit damage does 1 + (.59 * .5) = 1.295
Post-nerf, pet loses 10% crit damage for 1 + (.59 * .4) = 1.236
Reduction is 1.236 / 1.295 = 0.9544 or a 4.56% reduction

Warrior with 59% and 100% crit damage does 1 + (.59 * 1.5) = 1.885
Post-nerf, warrior does 90% crit damage for 1 + (.59 * 1.4) = 1.826
Reduction is 1.826 / 1.885 = 0.9687 or a 3.13% reduction