Guild Wars 2

Increase outgoing damage of nearby allies. (1/2 cast time; 20 cooldown)

10% Damage Glyph of Empowerment (5s): 10% Damage
Miscellaneous effect.png Number of Targets: 5
Radius.png Radius: 300
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Now let’s do the Maths.
This ability provides a straight 2,5% damage increase. This amount is insanely low when we think about the ability as a utility slot.

Comparison to Quickening Zephyr (Self boosting ability)
If we think about dividing Party DPS to equally fit players for easier math, our DPS would be around 20% (this number is a few tips lower than real numbers. Rangers belong to the higher DPS category classes).

Quickening Zephyr increases the DPS by roughly 45% for rangers (AA class) which results in increasing the 20% to 29%.
It means QZ boosts Party DPS by 9% for the duration fo 6(7) seconds alone.

A self-boosting ability beats the Party Support ability in party DPS
This is a huge flaw in design and needs to be addressed.
Time to compere it to already mediocre-considered Frost Spirit (that provides 7,5% DPS increase flat) for 1 minute or 70% uptime if we blow the spirit right on cast.

If this ability is supposed to fill a role of “Burn Phase Trigger” it needs it’s damage boost increased to at least 25%
By doing so, we’d bring the overall DPS to 6,25% which is still lower than the Frost Spirit but fulfilling it’s duty as a “Burst Phase” mechanic booster.
This is pure Maths talking.

This ability needs to be straight buffed. Not Band-Aided, not tweaked; but straight buffed.

In terms of PvP:
I don’t believe it’s going to be any OP at all.
It equals roughly to 10-15 might stacks that Elementalists and guardians are able to hold for much longer durations (and higher amounts) without sacrificing any utility slot for it.
Additionally, it only buffs direct damage. No conditions at all (unlike Guardian and Ele might)

That being said – Quickening Zephyr; Sick’Em; Signet of the Wild – these all will still hold their uses since Sick’Em is used mostly for Anti-Stealth purposes, Signet is used for combat stability/mobility, too, and Zephyr reduces counter-play reaction time window for the enemy.

Only thing that would be changed around game-play is that Druids would become excellent duo roamers with Zerk Classes (which balance approves).
Of course, ANet might think that it’s not allowed because we’d get on par with guardians… But with all due respect ANet, our community has had enough.

It’s time to get smart with balance changes.

don’t forget verdant etching. it also functions as a condi clear and small heal, as well as lowering the recharge.

i do agree it might still be a little weak, but traited versions should always be factored in

maybe it should be longer recharge but bigger effect, like 30-40s cooldown with 25% damage boost?

would also make the avatar version less tepid

Shoe.5821:

don’t forget verdant etching. it also functions as a condi clear and small heal, as well as lowering the recharge.

i do agree it might still be a little weak, but traited versions should always be factored in

maybe it should be longer recharge but bigger effect, like 30-40s cooldown with 25% damage boost?

would also make the avatar version less tepid

The trait has absolutely no effect on goal of the PvP use. Can’t tell for PvE, yet.
It still has absolutely nothing to do with the numbers as the trait increases the overall DPS to 7,5% – bringing it just exactly on par with Frost Spirit, while traited Frost Spirit brings another 3 might (roughly 6-7% damage increase). I was extra thoughtful about all things brought into consideration

This trait doesn’t need increased cooldown, neither be “tweaked” by other measures.
This is a pure support ability, and should feel like one.

Simply popping Frost Spirit does 75% of the glyph. But for 1350% duration (60 seconds + 15 from dead body).
This is balance talking. Not the assumptions or emotions that have ruled ANet balance changes for years.

I really don’t think that this particular glyph is ever going to be good for pvp without being extremely strong in pve.

IMO It’s okay if some skills arn’t that good in pvp.

Anyway, you can’t really compare it straight to a ‘maximum’ frost spirit because of all the difficult to quantify limitations on spirit lifetime (ranging from instadeath to moving away from it.) In the end you have to make an assumption on what a realistic frost spirit uptime actually is in order to compare the numbers.

I agree that a 10% damage boost over 5 seconds isn’t really interesting enough, but 25% is definitely overkill. You compare it to 10-15 might stacks, but it will be non removeable and a very quick cast and can be put on top of might. Also it would be stronger than frost spirit in longer fights, since frost spirit has a downtime after a minute (even if it doesn’t die). How about 15% and increase the duration of the buff to 8 seconds (making it a 50% uptime when traited)?

The thing is that I definitely think it would be extremely powerfull for Burst builds in PvP and WvW and I don’t think that would necessarily be a good thing. Although looking at some skills other classes are getting, your idea might be fine too, I mean chronomancer will basically provide perma quickness to groups if needed and just 2 days ago we learned that high quickness uptime would require a hotfix on rangers.

This skill is incredibly boring and needs to be redone completely regardless of balance, in my opinion. I wouldn’t take this even if it was good.

While I agree this glyph needs a buff(I like the idea fo 20% damage buff and 20% damage reduction while in celec form) The mathematics idications you gave are wrong in various aspects.

I feel the Glyphs are only really good when traited. Which seems to be the Ranger theme.

• 10% damage for 5s on a 20s cooldown is bad
• 300 range knockback on a 20s cooldown is meh.
• 4s weakness and 4s cripple on a 20s cooldown is meh

But traited with Verdant Etching and they all remove 2 conditions + a small heal and all on a low 16s cooldown. (However, there does seem to be a delay in it removing conditions, unlike survival skills.)

So Glyphs could replace survival skills for condition removal, especially traited Glyph of Unity.

But then again, Glyph of Empowerment would still be the bad compared to Alignment and Tides.

Holland.9351:

I feel the Glyphs are only really good when traited. Which seems to be the Ranger theme.

• 10% damage for 5s on a 20s cooldown is bad
• 300 range knockback on a 20s cooldown is meh.
• 4s weakness and 4s cripple on a 20s cooldown is meh

But traited with Verdant Etching and they all remove 2 conditions + a small heal and all on a low 16s cooldown. (However, there does seem to be a delay in it removing conditions, unlike survival skills.)

So Glyphs could replace survival skills for condition removal, especially traited Glyph of Unity.

But then again, Glyph of Empowerment would still be the bad compared to Alignment and Tides.

Like you saied, Glyphs are desnighed(aspire ) to be effective in group content(wvw zerg fights, spvp(?), raids etc..) so running first line(glyphs radius) with cast time abilities, no stun break, no stability source, condi removal with ~2.5 sec delay after activvation just wont cut it. I think the low CD glyphs should be instant cast, stun break and while traited, the seed of life shoud also bring like 2 stability for 3(?) sec. Ofc also the effects and CDS should be improved.

I don’t really see why Glyphs should be balanced around a Glyphs-only build. They don’t need a stunbreak and it makes zero thematic sense.

…Except checking the wiki i see an Elementalist glyph with stun break. Well, kitten it then. Give em a stun break! Other than the Celestial one.

I think Glyph of Equality looks pretty hilarious when combined with Moment of Clarity. One trait, one skill, and a greatsword is potentially 7 seconds of daze. Also, gaining Attacks of Opportunity!

I’d make this Glyph 20% damage with 2.5s duration, instant cast time and shave the CD a bit.

Shoe.5821:

Anyway, you can’t really compare it straight to a ‘maximum’ frost spirit because of all the difficult to quantify limitations on spirit lifetime (ranging from instadeath to moving away from it.) In the end you have to make an assumption on what a realistic frost spirit uptime actually is in order to compare the numbers.

That’s human factor that has nothing to do with results.
I believe you can still find both cases (of maximum potential and the least, ranging from ~73 duration on 80 second cooldown or 70% uptime when killing spirit instantly; spirits provide effects for ~15 seconds after death)

Those all are realistic numbers that I have been able to apply in practice for years.
If other players can’t do that, or didn’t figure that out – it still has nothing to do with balance.
We can’t balance the game around lazy/unskilled/unaware players. That doesn’t make sense. We can, however, balance it around facts and reality.

LughLongArm.5460:

While I agree this glyph needs a buff(I like the idea fo 20% damage buff and 20% damage reduction while in celec form) The mathematics idications you gave are wrong in various aspects.

I had a whole wall of maths on this thread previously.
It had been close to being the double the in length, so I decided to edit it, cut most of the unimportant and low-in-change results in order to make it more complex, easy to follow and still make sense.

If it is needed, I can demonstrate it additionally to prove my point, but I believe no one’s interested in it anyways. The core numbers are already held here.

Should be no less than a 10% group damage buff to merit a utility slot. Why would you ever slot it for any other utility.

Frost Spirit is essentially a 7% group damage buff with a 1200 range. Glyph of Empowerment, as with most glyphs, is a puny 330 range.

Just increase the uptime. 15% extra damage for 15 seconds.

I’d rather the buff have higher uptime so it’s valuable in PvE, because if we increase the percentage, then the PvP garbage crowd will get it nerfed due to burst concerns in no time and as we know Arenanet developers have some moral objection to splitting PvE/PvP balance nowadays.

Zenith.7301:

Should be no less than a 10% group damage buff to merit a utility slot. Why would you ever slot it for any other utility.

Frost Spirit is essentially a 7% group damage buff with a 1200 range. Glyph of Empowerment, as with most glyphs, is a puny 330 range.

Just increase the uptime. 15% extra damage for 15 seconds.

I’d rather the buff have higher uptime so it’s valuable in PvE, because if we increase the percentage, then the PvP garbage crowd will get it nerfed due to burst concerns in no time and as we know Arenanet developers have some moral objection to splitting PvE/PvP balance nowadays.

This concept seems better if you ask me. It’s just that Devs mentioned they wanted it to be the “Get ready everyone, I’m gonna use this glyph!”.
For math’s purposes, having it on 10% damage increase for 15 seconds (20 CD)
or 15% damage for 10 seconds (20 CD) would be fine.

Anything if it makes a valid choice for killing a utility slot.