Guild Wars 2

Why the kitten do you take retaliation from Barrage?

I took over 30k damage from 1 barrage today… nothing I could do about it.

I understand the placement of your barrage is important but still.

Dodge roll causes all retal to miss. Otherwise, don’t barrage the zerg.

Just another way in which staff ele is much better than longbow ranger.

Meteor Shower doesn’t suffer as much from retal and packs a far harder punch.

Don’t take it personally though. Grenade engineers kill themselves with retal on a zerg as well — retal from guardians is just too good and the current WvW group pvp meta is to pack lots of guardians for retal/burning/CC trains.

I usually just activate Troll Unguent right before Barrage and it prevents me from killing myself. It is obnoxious that our most useful contribution to a zerg fight results in us losing over half our HP, though.

At least you’ll tag a lot of people with the barrage and should be standing pretty far back so if you do down yourself on retaliation you have a good chance for a rally.

Stice.5204:

I usually just activate Troll Unguent right before Barrage and it prevents me from killing myself. It is obnoxious that our most useful contribution to a zerg fight results in us losing over half our HP, though.

At least you’ll tag a lot of people with the barrage and should be standing pretty far back so if you do down yourself on retaliation you have a good chance for a rally.

Healing Spring is mandatory for zerg combat

What I’m trying to get at is why do we even take retaliation damage (especially) that much damage from Barrage….

I’m not talking about what you can do to try and stay alive from 20-30k++ damage from one of your abilitys.

Retaliation dmg should scale based on the dmg done so one big hit would suffer as much as multiple small hits. As it is retaliation is horribly broken towards everyone that uses AoE.

Pvp.2758:

Healing Spring is mandatory for zerg combat

Depends on your style of zerg combat, I guess.

If you do organized guild fighting with all their focus on stacking and combo fields and blast finishers then I’m sure you’re right.

But I’m not in a guild that does that, so if I join a zerg it’s as a random unaffiliated badge-farmer and I’m probably not trying to do anything other than tag targets and avoid dying during fights. TU does help you not die when you barrage an enemy zerg.

Indoles.1467:

Dodge roll causes all retal to miss. Otherwise, don’t barrage the zerg.

Can anyone confirm this?
I tried everything to avoid damage while barrage was ticking tons of retaliation. I tried to dodge, block, huge distance, none worked.
I don’t think dodge will help since I did 2 dodges in a row and still was getting insane amounts of damage from barrage. I might be wrong but it would make me wonder.

another reason to use the shortbow.

Taku.6352:

Retaliation dmg should scale based on the dmg done so one big hit would suffer as much as multiple small hits. As it is retaliation is horribly broken towards everyone that uses AoE.

I have to agree with this.

Arpheus.6918:

Indoles.1467:

Dodge roll causes all retal to miss. Otherwise, don’t barrage the zerg.

Can anyone confirm this?
I tried everything to avoid damage while barrage was ticking tons of retaliation. I tried to dodge, block, huge distance, none worked.
I don’t think dodge will help since I did 2 dodges in a row and still was getting insane amounts of damage from barrage. I might be wrong but it would make me wonder.

At least that seemed to work a while back (haven’t tested it in months). What I meant was dodging causes retal to miss during the evade, but obviously once the roll ends you will take damage again if you are still hitting them. Maybe I’m wrong though.

Indoles.1467:

Dodge roll causes all retal to miss. Otherwise, don’t barrage the zerg.

Then what’s the point if you can’t use it to hit clustered players? Retal also eats my engineer for breakfast.

Retaliation is a cheesy skill that needs to be nerfed into the ground by a hard cap. Like 100 dmg per strike and capped at 3k in total.

You know why I know it’s a broken skill? Because on L2, one of the most unbalanced mmos ever, reflect aka retaliation is the most sought after augment on a person’s equipment. People would dump millions of adena into getting it from the RNG god. Skill like that has no place outside of 1 vs 1 since you cannot stop hitting your opponent because someone else is going to be hitting you if you just stand there.

Simple solution: Make retaliation return X% of damage taken, based on power. It reduces the pressure on AoE attacks like barrage, but increases the pressure on burst skills, like kill shot.

Right now, a warrior can hit 3 people for 11-12k damage with kill shot, and only take 800-900 damage from retaliation. While a ranger can kill themselves with a single barrage, and not even come close to reaching that 12k damage.

Retaliation should be affected by range. Either with a hard cap or a damage falloff.

NemesiS.6749:

another reason to use the shortbow.

I prefer even axe to LB. LB is the worst ranger weapon by far.

The formula for retaliation seems solid as of right now at first glance to most, until you see one thing in open combat. As of right now the formula for it is the following, with the power based on whatever gave the person retaliation.

198.45 + (0.075 * Power)

While the flaw isn’t immediate, the following should tell you where the flaw lies. Last night I wakittenting a guardian who had retaliation on. I was taking 394 damage with each hit when the hits I were dishing to said guardian with a longbow were only 280 damage.

Anybody else see the problem here? It’s that the retaliation damage can OUTDO the damage you’re inflicting to the opponent, and stays at that amount regardless of whether or not you burst them down or not. This is the main problem with retaliation, that it’s not a set percentage of damage YOU do, making it somewhat overpowered against players who have low attack, and underpowered against those with high attack.

I say make it so that you’re taking anywhere from 25% to 50% of the damage you dealt to them back at you (I’m leaning towards 33%). This can be considered a nerf and a buff to it at the same time. Condition users like myself need not worry about shooting ourselves down by getting hit with more than we’re hitting for, while at the same time making it a worry for somebody who is a glass cannon, like a thief, who pulls off a 8-9K damage burst.

RyuDragnier.9476:

The formula for retaliation seems solid as of right now at first glance to most, until you see one thing in open combat. As of right now the formula for it is the following, with the power based on whatever gave the person retaliation.

198.45 + (0.075 * Power)

While the flaw isn’t immediate, the following should tell you where the flaw lies. Last night I wakittenting a guardian who had retaliation on. I was taking 394 damage with each hit when the hits I were dishing to said guardian with a longbow were only 280 damage.

Anybody else see the problem here? It’s that the retaliation damage can OUTDO the damage you’re inflicting to the opponent, and stays at that amount regardless of whether or not you burst them down or not. This is the main problem with retaliation, that it’s not a set percentage of damage YOU do, making it somewhat overpowered against players who have low attack, and underpowered against those with high attack.

I say make it so that you’re taking anywhere from 25% to 50% of the damage you dealt to them back at you (I’m leaning towards 33%). This can be considered a nerf and a buff to it at the same time. Condition users like myself need not worry about shooting ourselves down by getting hit with more than we’re hitting for, while at the same time making it a worry for somebody who is a glass cannon, like a thief, who pulls off a 8-9K damage burst.

+1

I never really connected that it was a flat amount before even though it was so obvious, and now that I see it, I think it’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen in my life in a game. It should have a reflect x% damage back function AT THE VERY MOST, although retaliation is already ridiculously mindnumbingly stupid, because it’s the only thing in the game where you can self buff, have no target selected, not even know an enemy is around, and still deal damage to them.

Kinda makes you sit back for a moment and think “wow, what were they thinking…”

I think they should use a modified version of the formula used in Pain Inverter in GW.

It was based on the damage done to the person (starting at 100-140%) but with an upper limit of how much one tick of damage from it could do (80 per tick).

The maximum damage per tick would have to be raised or eliminated because HP max is so much higher in GW2 than it was in GW1, as are the numbers that some classes can deal as damage. I would, personally, make the percentage be 50-110% based on the applier’s power. That way, you COULD deal a large amount of damage with it, but you’d have to spec heavily for power, which would make you less survivable.

I agree currently retaliation is currently OP. They could do the coding different like mentioned in this thread or even move it from being a “boon” so boon duration won’t be keeping it at 100% uptime on people(Much like stealth isn’t a boon).

Rangers never get any love so I doubt they will fix this

Lol im glad you brought this up because i run a 30k hp Engie with perma retal and a Ranger unloaded on me with Rapid Fire and Barrage and he lost 95% of his before i can even shoot him O.o

why not a 1+ second internal cooldown?

Should just be 1 retaliation hit per barrage.

12 × 3 = 3600 damage taken (if you hit someone with retaliation each barrage)

3600 damage seems fair to me…. more fair than 36000 damage