Guild Wars 2

Anyone know which of these two traitlines will produce higher dps for ranger and pet in the upcoming patch?

Short answer – BM. NM is not so much about damage….
But, you can find some builds that might will be want make use of NM over BM.

Fortifying Bond is about the only reason to take it for DPS.

Taking BM gives your pet an additional 150 main stats, +10% damage when you are above 90% health, 300 ferocity, -20% to swaps and F2 recharge and you get access to companions might to replace the might stacks lost from fortifying bond and get the bonus 6s of bleed on crit from companion’s might. Then you can grab Natural Regeneration to help it stay alive and Zephyr’s Speed for more DPS.

imo, BM is light-years ahead of NM now.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Fortifying Bond is about the only reason to take it for DPS.

Taking BM gives your pet an additional 150 main stats, +10% damage when you are above 90% health, 300 ferocity, -20% to swaps and F2 recharge and you get access to companions might to replace the might stacks lost from fortifying bond and get the bonus 6s of bleed on crit from companion’s might. Then you can grab Natural Regeneration to help it stay alive and Zephyr’s Speed for more DPS.

imo, BM is light-years ahead of NM now.

The 20% CD reduction isn’t just for their F2, but ALL pet skills, that means canine leap, Drake tail whip, etc.

@OP, Nature Magic isn’t what I’d take for damage, not that it can’t be used for SOME damage benefit, but it won’t be close to BM now.

I see very little reason other than Protective Ward to bother with Nature Magic now. As Heimskarl said, there’s Fortifying Bond for pet DPS but BM can just take Companion’s Might and benefit from all the other cool pet damage bonuses.

Nature Magic is still better. 25 stacks of might is 750 power- that’s more than 50% of a cat pet’s base power. You also get Bountiful Hunter, which increases you and your pet’s damage by 1% per boon. Seeing as you get 4 boons just from swapping pets with call of the wild (also in nature magic), that’s at least 4% damage for both.

The might stacking on crit will never reach that high because we can’t crit 25 times in 5 seconds.

150 base power helps make up for it, but it’s still lower than Fortifying Bond. Add 10% damage, and say, on average, 5-10 stacks of might, and it’s still not near the power of Fortifying Bond. Fortifying Bond also transfers other buffs such as Fury, and presumably Quickness when that becomes a boon.

Zephyr’s Speed sounds good in theory, but in execution it’s not very great. You have to keep swapping your pet off cooldown to get the most out of it, which, combined with the lower pet swap cooldown, totally screws with Call of the Wild on pet swap cooldowns, which in turn messes up Remorseless proccing.

Pets also have a tendency to just spaz and not attack for a second after swapping, so you’re losing DPS there.

You’re also swapping the pet more, which while it seems nice to be able to keep them alive more often, also means that they lose their boons that much faster.

So Nature Magic, to me, is the clear winner.

i going to have see how it plays out but I’m in the nm camp at the moment
Fortifying bond, bountifully hunter and lingering Magic are nothing to sneeze at. Also we don’t know what the boon FS is going to proc with Natures vengeance yet it could be quickness (though i doubt it)

From what I see so far NM seems more pve/group support and BM is more pvp/solo open world.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Fortifying Bond is about the only reason to take it for DPS.

Taking BM gives your pet an additional 150 main stats, +10% damage when you are above 90% health, 300 ferocity, -20% to swaps and F2 recharge and you get access to companions might to replace the might stacks lost from fortifying bond and get the bonus 6s of bleed on crit from companion’s might. Then you can grab Natural Regeneration to help it stay alive and Zephyr’s Speed for more DPS.

imo, BM is light-years ahead of NM now.

The 15 CD aoe weakness + protection seems nice though. Maybe you can go for beastmaster again, picking WS, NM, and BM for all the tankiness + pet traits.

Sevans.4619:

I see very little reason other than Protective Ward to bother with Nature Magic now. As Heimskarl said, there’s Fortifying Bond for pet DPS but BM can just take Companion’s Might and benefit from all the other cool pet damage bonuses.

we’re talking pvp right? Allies’ Aid is strong, rejuvenation, Evasive Purity is gonna be huge to counter poison stacking, and Protective Ward gives us the prot and weakness we badly need.

Companion’s Might is a horrible pick, unless youre zerker or something. i’ll be running settler stats, so I wont be critting. for me to stack 25 might on my pet, i’ll need to spam Axe 1. there is no better way to stack might on your pet.

Sadly, Skirmishing is such an OP trait line. Hidden Barbs and Quickdraw hugely buff the ranger’s capabilities. if Beastly Warden works out, I’ll be keeping BM and experimenting between Skirm and NM. im very torn.

@ mistsim I’m talking about PvE here. But honestly, it applies to both. Except the Companions Might part, unless you were running sin/zerk/rabid maybe. Also, please stop saying OP and too strong etc about our traits, its time we got something good.

@ NM is better krewe
The additional utility brought to the pet with BM is too good to pass up for me. Being able to AoE Blind and Weaken every 4.75s (Taunt every 15s) with my Hawk is simply amazing and orders of magnitude better than a bit more damage. As well as that, the pet will have 600 more toughness and 150 more vit/prec/power than a pet without BM. The precision almost makes up for not having fury transferred via FB. In fact, its probably better because its only 2% crit chance lost and its perma, fury from FB only lasts a few seconds.

Remember Sword AA – Pounce has pet might on it, so with Companion’s Might, you will be able to hit quite a bit. You couldn’t do the blind then though. With the additional 150 power and +10% damage, CD reductions etc, I can’t see FB being in front.

For PvE, beastmastery for sure.

Nature magic only has 2 traits that will be of strong benefit to you, the 1% damage for each boon on you, and boons you receive are also shared with your pet. Nothing else in this line is worth mentioning.

Beastmastery is, frankly, not that great either, but its the best choice of what we have. I think a lot of people are swayed by all the stat bonuses it gives to your pet, but pets are only a portion of your damage, so it won’t be a huge DPS increase. I haven’t done the numbers, but I’d be surprised if it was much larger than a 15% increase. To put this in perspective, that wouldn’t be much stronger than what the Predator’s Onslaught trait alone would give you.

Bri.8354:

For PvE, beastmastery for sure.

I think that for PvP, BM is pretty much mandatory too, the amount of utility it brings is just off the charts compared to what we had.

Ltomato.8649:

Pets also have a tendency to just spaz and not attack for a second after swapping, so you’re losing DPS there.

About that. I did some testing when you mentioned that earlier in another thread. Though it does happen, this issue can actually be corrected by pressing [F1] immediately after [F4].

Wondrouswall.7169:

Ltomato.8649:

Pets also have a tendency to just spaz and not attack for a second after swapping, so you’re losing DPS there.

About that. I did some testing when you mentioned that earlier in another thread. Though it does happen, this issue can actually be corrected by pressing [F1] immediately after [F4].

Did you test this with Zephyr’s Speed? That would be interesting. I would, but I cannot play atm.

Yes, I also tested it with Zephyr’s Speed. Rest assured, as long as you press [F1] immediately after the pet swap [F4] – the pet does not “spaz” and there is 0 DPS loss.

Nice.

If you use something like a canine or drake, they should do their KD or blast skill immediately after swap (assuming target in range) so the quickness should make the cast time faster for those.

You are correct. Coincidentally, these tests were done with a Marsh Drake, Alpine Wolf (chose for cosmetic reasons), and a Raven. The KD and Tail Swipes (when available) were immediately casted once the pet appeared.

I’ve been tinkering around with Zephyr’s Speed lately in prep for the updates. It took me awhile to “roll” [F4] > [F1] while making sure I’m light on my feet (intended) during combat.

[F2] is also an option after the swap. Same thing applies. As long as it is pressed immediately after [F4], there is no delay on the cast or spazzing.

ZS with Stalker looks nice then.

I’d say that at this point, since groups will still want Frost Spirit, the only way NM even has a shot is if Nature’s Vengeance is somehow amazing.

Other than that, BM has the more efficient opportunity cost (it honestly still will even if Vengeance is amazing from an individual standpoint).

jcbroe.4329:

I’d say that at this point, since groups will still want Frost Spirit, the only way NM even has a shot is if Nature’s Vengeance is somehow amazing.

Other than that, BM has the more efficient opportunity cost (it honestly still will even if Vengeance is amazing from an individual standpoint).

Nature’s Vengeance could potentially be good if one of the spirits pulsed Fury every 3 seconds, combined with Remorseless we might get some decent vuln stacking going.

Let’s add up the effective power against a single target, assuming a group situation, so, like, a boss. Assuming 25 stacks of might on the player, perma fury, swiftness, regen, and protection/stability/aegis on rotation.

Nature Magic:
Pet: 750 power →~50% more damage, fury →20% more crit chance, 5 boons → 5% damage from Bountiful Hunter =
55% more damage with 20% higher chance to crit.
Player: 5%damage from bountiful hunter

BM
Pet: 150 power ~10%, 150 prec 7% more crit chance, 10% more damage, 8 might stacks (3 from swap, 5 from crits), 240 power, ~16%, 20% more crit damage, 12.5% more damage from quickness = 48.5% damage with +7% crit chance to do 20% more damage on crits, plus bleed on crits (minimal, given the condi damage nerf).
Player: 12.5% damage from quickness but only when the pet is alive.

It actually seems like a toss up, unless you get more boons than 5.

What other considerations are there?
NM: Call of the Wild on 24 sec cd, pet swap on 20
BM: Call of the Wild on 30 sec cd, pet swap on 16

I’d say Nature Magic wins this- It has the more efficient Call of the Wild proccing, I believe. i.e. wait 4 seconds after pet cd is off and proccing every swap vs swapping off cooldown (which you’ll need to do for BM in order to get that 25% quickness uptime) )and only proccing Call every other swap.

So Nature Magic actually has the MUCH better uptime for Call of the Wild- 24 sec vs 30/32 sec.

It’s better than that too, since you get 20% longer boon duration from Nature Magic. And boons your pet applies- moa fury, jungle stalker might, get 50% longer durations!
Beastmastery gives 20% cooldowns, but, Nature Magic wins out by a couple seconds for boons. Beastmastery would win for Jaguar stealth time though. Or would it? You’re going to swapping off cooldown, so that’s every 16 seconds. Jaguar stalk cooldown goes down to 24 seconds. However, that’s still long enough that even if the Jaguar cooldown were 30 seconds, you’d still have to swap the same number of times, and it will be up on the same swap. And if you’re not swapping, as I’ve said before, you’re not getting the 12.5% damage from quickness.

There’s also the matter of the pet being alive. If the pet dies and you’re running Beastmaster (say, from mai trin, or alpha, archdiviner, mossman, bloomhunger,or SE, or anything with AoEs, pretty much) then you lose a lot of the benefit from Zephyr’s Speed until your pet comes back up- 48 seconds. In that case, the 5% from Bountiful Hunter will be better.

Then there’s Nature Magic’s “mystery grandmaster”. Quickness is becoming a boon, so if the boon provided by ANY of the spirits is quickness, that’ll be the way to go. Otherwise, it won’t really be worth it.

I still like Nature Magic more- the more Call of the Wild procs and less dependence on pet AI is very tempting for me; but I’ll admit that Beastmastery is pretty snazzy.

For the record – is there any reason we can’t go with a WS/BM/NM build? I get that you lose out on marksmanship’s DPS setup, but that’s only super relevant when you’re doing extremely high end damage dealing. It’d be an incredibly potent setup for keeping you and your pet alive in the face of overwhelming odds, which happens an unfortunate amount in pvp, where a single extra crit and a few vuln stacks don’t really matter much.

Harnel.6810:

For the record – is there any reason we can’t go with a WS/BM/NM build? I get that you lose out on marksmanship’s DPS setup, but that’s only super relevant when you’re doing extremely high end damage dealing. It’d be an incredibly potent setup for keeping you and your pet alive in the face of overwhelming odds, which happens an unfortunate amount in pvp, where a single extra crit and a few vuln stacks don’t really matter much.

That is kinda the point we are discussing, how to do the most DPS.

WS/NM/BM is a bunker build and will be very popular as well.

Ltomato.8649:

BM
Pet: 150 power ~10%, 150 prec 7% more crit chance, 10% more damage, 8 might stacks (3 from swap, 5 from crits), 240 power, ~16%, 20% more crit damage, 12.5% more damage from quickness = 48.5% damage with +7% crit chance to do 20% more damage on crits, plus bleed on crits (minimal, given the condi damage nerf).
Player: 12.5% damage from quickness but only when the pet is alive.

Calculating only 8 might stacks seems a little unfair to me versus the assumed 25 you gave Nature Magic. If there are any trash mobs around, you will have a much higher number and if you’re concerned about DPS, you’ll be using sword and it grants might on every third hit (something you have to consider when you have quickness up often.)

Just a thought.