Guild Wars 2

So, just like the topic says!?
Ivé heard melee over everything and bearbow bla bla. So pls if you know or think you know which build will let you do most damage – tell me!

Before the update i ran with LB and GS and full zerker gear…

I’ve always ran Sword/Warhon and GS or Longbow depending on if you need to range the boss (HotW troll) or other bosses. Obviously zerker gear is the way to go and the only required traits are spotter and some points to take Spirits (Frost Spirit). Otherwise you can take RaO for maximum dps but other than that, I haven’t heard of much…

Can anyone add on to that? I’m curious too

Sword based Spotter/Frost Spirit build is the best you can do in PvE.

Check out my guide in my sig.

Powah.1672:

So, just like the topic says!?
Ivé heard melee over everything and bearbow bla bla. So pls if you know or think you know which build will let you do most damage – tell me!

Before the update i ran with LB and GS and full zerker gear…

http://youtu.be/via57Pzvm58

Before I can give you the answer you are looking for – I need you to tell me what kind of player are you…
… Active (you like doing stuff and like mashing many buttons)
… Comfortable (doing solid damage without much effort)
… Melee / Ranged Oriented
?
By that time – the most build with highest damage output (AND burst) is definitely this one: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRnMqQrgWyCWsAXLGYPoWHANQEwMD6gnb73exUlIB-TBCFABPcEAAa/BkU+hwhAYhHAAAXAgCV/5KlgBAOA43f/93f/tUARMMC-e

Tragic Positive.9356:

Before I can give you the answer you are looking for – I need you to tell me what kind of player are you…
… Active (you like doing stuff and like mashing many buttons)
… Comfortable (doing solid damage without much effort)
… Melee / Ranged Oriented
?
By that time – the most build with highest damage output (AND burst) is definitely this one: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRnMqQrgWyCWsAXLGYPoWHANQEwMD6gnb73exUlIB-TBCFABPcEAAa/BkU+hwhAYhHAAAXAgCV/5KlgBAOA43f/93f/tUARMMC-e

This one looks interesting, ty for answer!
I would say im an “comfortable” player (age 31 and have stoped clicking everything as fast as i can..;))

One of the reasons i choose to be a ranger were just because i wanted to use ranged attacks (read Longbow)…

Tragic Positive.9356:

Before I can give you the answer you are looking for – I need you to tell me what kind of player are you…
… Active (you like doing stuff and like mashing many buttons)
… Comfortable (doing solid damage without much effort)
… Melee / Ranged Oriented
?
By that time – the most build with highest damage output (AND burst) is definitely this one: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRnMqQrgWyCWsAXLGYPoWHANQEwMD6gnb73exUlIB-TBCFABPcEAAa/BkU+hwhAYhHAAAXAgCV/5KlgBAOA43f/93f/tUARMMC-e

This is a terrible build for PvE and should not be recommended to anyone.

The good PvE builds are the ones that take the minimum amount of group support needed, and then optimize their damage from that point. Your builds do neither and are prioritizing burst so much that your sustained DPS plummets. Air, Intellgience and Rage sigils are terrible in PvE and more applicable in PvP, which makes me suspect you designed this build for PvP and just decided to use it in PvE.

Also, there’s zero reason to trade away group DPS for personal DPS on a ranger, because Rangers are bottom 4 dps anyways.

I run a similar build (LB/GS) give or take a trait point, and have a hard time believing it’s a max single-target DPS build. Burst damage… maybe… but DPS? Sword has GS beat in that respect by a large margin. Even burst, it’s arguable that you could outshine GS with Sword/Axe.

GS is amazing in it’s element, but it’s not a DPS weapon.

Powah.1672:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Before I can give you the answer you are looking for – I need you to tell me what kind of player are you…
… Active (you like doing stuff and like mashing many buttons)
… Comfortable (doing solid damage without much effort)
… Melee / Ranged Oriented
?
By that time – the most build with highest damage output (AND burst) is definitely this one: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRnMqQrgWyCWsAXLGYPoWHANQEwMD6gnb73exUlIB-TBCFABPcEAAa/BkU+hwhAYhHAAAXAgCV/5KlgBAOA43f/93f/tUARMMC-e

This one looks interesting, ty for answer!
I would say im an “comfortable” player (age 31 and have stoped clicking everything as fast as i can..;))

One of the reasons i choose to be a ranger were just because i wanted to use ranged attacks (read Longbow)…

You really should consider playing engineer or ele if you wanna range and have the best dps setup for your profession. Both classes also have decent party might stacking too.

The best maximum pve dps build for ranger doesn’t involve camping a ranged weapon while engi(grenade, some of your dps will come from 15+ stacks of bleed on the flip side your party will normally cap vuln even the other 4 guys aren’t exactly running the best vuln stacking dps builds) & ele(staff, camp fire attunement and just have 100% up time on lava font) does.

Not only the ranger isn’t the class made for Might Stacking – but he doesn’t have anything special besides Frost Spirit that doesn’t have a cap (and this one wastes you 4 traits into defensive tree).
To sum it up – you all may be right, but you don’t answer the OP’s request.
- I have to admit that the sigils were from a former PvP build and I was lazy to replace them since they weren’t that bad.
But something to add: PvE consists of dungeons and World Bosses. Where Dungeons are BASED ON BURST DAMAGE and world bosses are a suicide for 1h Sword builds. Sword is a suicide in more cases – even dungeons since you are glued to your target and you can’t stop attacking when you need it. In my opinion the Sword is made for PvP.
__________________________________________________
GS is better in terms of reliability. Not only you provide MORE damage than 1h Sword(Maul gives you the advantage/The Warhorn gives you burst which isn’t exactly dps) but you gain evade and Stacks of Vulnerability on target AND you can save your life more frenquently (important for full Zerk Build!).

I’ll give you another build with a pretty safe constant damage that provides the party with 20 vulnerability stacks uptime. That should be more than enough supportive for the PvE party. But you won’t feel the “damage” in other way than statistically unlike the former full burst build I posted (Pet can crit for 17K in the burst phase in addition to your Zerk Stats).

This build provides Party:(5)Might, Fury, 10% damage chance, 20-25 vulnerability stack uptime. Also provides reliable constant damage of high values.
P.S. Switch to Sword + Warhorn if you feel safe in melee range (which you mentioned you don’t like and you prefer Longbow sniping).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRnMqQrgWyCuqAXLGYPQWHoRB2Z+My12Lu7EJ-TBCBABVcIAga/BIuAAVq+zZKBxS5HAPAAPOCABAOA43f/93f/tUARMMC-e

Tragic Positive.9356:

Not only the ranger isn’t the class made for Might Stacking – but he doesn’t have anything special besides Frost Spirit that doesn’t have a cap (and this one wastes you 4 traits into defensive tree).
To sum it up – you all may be right, but you don’t answer the OP’s request.
- I have to admit that the sigils were from a former PvP build and I was lazy to replace them since they weren’t that bad.
But something to add: PvE consists of dungeons and World Bosses. Where Dungeons are BASED ON BURST DAMAGE and world bosses are a suicide for 1h Sword builds. Sword is a suicide in more cases – even dungeons since you are glued to your target and you can’t stop attacking when you need it. In my opinion the Sword is made for PvP.
__________________________________________________
GS is better in terms of reliability. Not only you provide MORE damage than 1h Sword(Maul gives you the advantage/The Warhorn gives you burst which isn’t exactly dps) but you gain evade and Stacks of Vulnerability on target AND you can save your life more frenquently (important for full Zerk Build!).

I’ll give you another build with a pretty safe constant damage that provides the party with 20 vulnerability stacks uptime. That should be more than enough supportive for the PvE party. But you won’t feel the “damage” in other way than statistically unlike the former full burst build I posted (Pet can crit for 17K in the burst phase in addition to your Zerk Stats).

This build provides Party:(5)Might, Fury, 10% damage chance, 20-25 vulnerability stack uptime. Also provides reliable constant damage of high values.
P.S. Switch to Sword + Warhorn if you feel safe in melee range (which you mentioned you don’t like and you prefer Longbow sniping).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRnMqQrgWyCuqAXLGYPQWHoRB2Z+My12Lu7EJ-TBCBABVcIAga/BIuAAVq+zZKBxS5HAPAAPOCABAOA43f/93f/tUARMMC-e

Let’s not kid ourselves.

1. The sword does more damage than the GS, this is a fact based on math not opinion.

2. 20-25 vuln stack uptime is laughable. Rangers can burst a lot of vuln on trash and at the beginning of the fight, but other than that rangers are terrible at providing vuln. After your opening strike wears off, the only vuln you’ll be providing is from your cat and maul/rapid fire. You’re also forgetting about unshakeable, which halves vuln duration on anything noteworthy, so in reality you’ll have only around 6 stacks of vuln uptime and the vuln sources are from subpar and situational weapons.

3. I did answer the OP’s request, he asked for the maximum DPS ranger builds not for builds that contain LB and GS. The builds I mentioned have GS in them, and you can bring a longbow in them for Ranged encounters. You should never aspire to mediocre, pure GS is terrible and prevents you from learning how to play with the sword.

TurtleDragon.3108:

1. The sword does more damage than the GS, this is a fact based on math not opinion.

2. 20-25% vuln uptime is laughable. Rangers can burst a lot of vuln on trash and at the beginning of the fight, but other than that rangers are terrible at providing vuln. After your opening strike wears off, the only vuln you’ll be providing is from your cat and maul/rapid fire. You’re also forgetting about unshakeable, which halves vuln duration on anything noteworthy, so in reality you’ll have only around 6 stacks of vuln uptime and the vuln sources are from subpar and situational weapons.

3. I did answer the OP’s request, he asked for the maximum DPS ranger builds not for builds that contain LB and GS. The builds I mentioned have GS in them, and you can bring a longbow in them for Ranged encounters. You should never aspire to mediocre, pure GS is terrible and prevents you from learning how to play with the sword.

On a training dummy – yes.
In a risky GlassCannon position at bosses that wipes whole parties – hardly.
Sword doesn’t deal more damage. Sword + Warhorn (or probably OH Axe) definitely. Don’t mistake the expressions.

By the way – Ranger IS the class with the best vulnerability applies in the game. You all either say the build doesn’t deal damage or doesn’t apply vulnerability or isn’t supportive enough. Get your ideas together – you can’t have everything.

And I believe it’s not that hard to swap one trait for regaining the opening strike on Hunter’s Shot – but I’m rarely the only one applying vuln. and the raid bosses are flooded with it – so I end up wasting the trait most of the time. By the way – I’m able to keep 15 myself with Rapid Fire and Maul alone.
You all sound like you try to throw the people’s ideas… But if you were smart enough – you’d realize that the OP doesn’t probably want the build for getting world first kill on a raid that aspires to get it and need more damage – but a build that feels responsive and user friendly. That is hardly going to be a Sword build that cost me my life a nice bunch of times and I got sick of switching weapons every other encounter.

Tragic Positive.9356:

On a training dummy – yes.
In a risky GlassCannon position at bosses that wipes whole parties – hardly.
Sword doesn’t deal more damage. Sword + Warhorn (or probably OH Axe) definitely. Don’t mistake the expressions.

Analysis of the sword doesn’t factor in the additional DPS from offhands and tests it in a vacuum with optimal conditions. Sword by itself does more damage, and allows you to bring warhorn which is by far the best offhand in terms of group utility.

Not everyone is terrible with the sword and can play it in “risky GlassCannon” boss fights, for very few of them I would say it’s a bad idea. There are plenty of target dummy styled fights in this game in terms of how “difficult” it is to use sword with.

By the way – Ranger IS the class with the best vulnerability applies in the game. You all either say the build doesn’t deal damage or doesn’t apply vulnerability or isn’t supportive enough. Get your ideas together – you can’t have everything.

This is incorrect, engineer is the best vuln stacker in the game. You can’t have everything is true, which is why you should specialize in the things you are strong at. In the rangers case, it’s Spotter, Frost Spirit, and group Fury. After that, you throw the rest of your points into damage.

And I believe it’s not that hard to swap one trait for regaining the opening strike on Hunter’s Shot – but I’m rarely the only one applying vuln. and the raid bosses are flooded with it – so I end up wasting the trait most of the time. By the way – I’m able to keep 15 myself with Rapid Fire and Maul alone.
You all sound like you try to throw the people’s ideas… But if you were smart enough – you’d realize that the OP doesn’t probably want the build for getting world first kill on a raid that aspires to get it and need more damage – but a build that feels responsive and user friendly. That is hardly going to be a Sword build that cost me my life a nice bunch of times and I got sick of switching weapons every other encounter.

Here’s the thing, open world is easy and does not require min maxing (except for maybe wurm). You can run whatever you want there because there are like 40 other people to make up for your contributions. This is not the case in dungeons where each individual matters a lot more. Generally, PvE builds are in actuality “Dungeon/Fractal” builds.

You’re also just making assumptions on the other details of what the user wants. He did ask for “Best” and “maximum dps”, but let’s not turn this arguement into interpreting what the OP wants.

Don’t be lazy, switching weapons, traits and utilites is a necessity for PvE. There is no one build fits all, but certain builds are much stronger at it than others. You should always be thinking “what weapons and utilities should I bring for this next encounter?” and as of the latest patch, that includes traits as well.

Sword is single target oriented weapon. It cannot compare to GS’s AoE Maul. Not even once. Also – one of it’s AA sequence is a single target ability too, which gives advantage to GS again.
I am aware of what are you trying to say – but I’ve been a Class Leader of one of the largest guilds in another MMO game. I could say I try to keep my perspective as wide as possible.

But what are you totally right about is that you need to switch traits for every other encounter, which means there is nothing like the “best” DPS build.
But I spent my finest moments giving the highest crits with the BM build I provided
Also… Remorseless + Rapid fire + gives 15 vuln at all times. With Piercing shots this applies to nice amount of targets. If I add OffHand axe – I can bring the number to 25 every 25 seconds(20 if traited for offhand recharge CD).

The OP specifically asked for the maximum damage PvE build, not one that feels the most user friendly. The 1h sword build Turtle posted is the correct answer.

Fluffball.8307:

The OP specifically asked for the maximum damage PvE build, not one that feels the most user friendly. The 1h sword build Turtle posted is the correct answer.

You’d notice he said he is a LongBow user. Also – if he is asking for the best DPS, I’d say he wanted a personal DPS. If I wanted a supportive DPS build – I’d specify my request.

But I guess the OP has more than enough of possibilities here. He has enough of material to choose from.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Sword is single target oriented weapon. It cannot compare to GS’s AoE Maul. Not even once. Also – one of it’s AA sequence is a single target ability too, which gives advantage to GS again.
I am aware of what are you trying to say – but I’ve been a Class Leader of one of the largest guilds in another MMO game. I could say I try to keep my perspective as wide as possible.

But what are you totally right about is that you need to switch traits for every other encounter, which means there is nothing like the “best” DPS build.
But I spent my finest moments giving the highest crits with the BM build I provided
Also… Remorseless + Rapid fire + gives 15 vuln at all times. With Piercing shots this applies to nice amount of targets. If I add OffHand axe – I can bring the number to 25 every 25 seconds(20 if traited for offhand recharge CD).

All you have there is anecdotal evidence that your build does heavy deeps.

You can be the president of murica and still be incorrect simply because the math has already been done, 1h Sword offers alot higher dps(damage per second) than GS.

You see high numbers on GS because the attack rate is slow, whether it be trash or bosses, 1h sword does more damage given x amount of time unless they can be melted in like 1-2 seconds, which makes arguing which does more dps moot.

Strictly speaking, a typical damage rotation does involve Maul at the start but you switch to 1h sword right after that to achieve “Best PVE ranger maximum dps”.

Both weapons cleave and do aoe damage so that isn’t the point of using a GS over a 1h sword in certain fights.

GS is simply for fights where you are forced to stand in max melee range or fights that it isn’t ideal to push the boss forward.

Izaya.2906:

You can be the president of murica and still be incorrect simply because the math has already been done, 1h Sword offers alot higher dps(damage per second) than GS.

Then feel free sticking to someone else’s math =D
Normally I’d even give you a numerical explanation – but your straight close-minded attitude isn’t worth my effort – since regardless of evidence you’d say someone else’s “Sword=best”.
My golden rule is “Adaptation”. You should try it sometimes – you’ll realize some nice interesting thingies, too.

I want to see your evidence and math that GS does more damage. If you can prove it, you’ll completely change the PvE meta.

Aznspeed.6730:

Longbow depending on if you need to range the boss (HotW troll) or other bosses.

Ranging that boss is the worst thing you can do. A well timed melee dodge will dodge both the landing and the following tremor.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Izaya.2906:

You can be the president of murica and still be incorrect simply because the math has already been done, 1h Sword offers alot higher dps(damage per second) than GS.

Then feel free sticking to someone else’s math =D
Normally I’d even give you a numerical explanation – but your straight close-minded attitude isn’t worth my effort – since regardless of evidence you’d say someone else’s “Sword=best”.
My golden rule is “Adaptation”. You should try it sometimes – you’ll realize some nice interesting thingies, too.

You’re the one with the close-minded attitude here sir. You keep dismissing sword for GS and claim you do heavy deeps with GS.

You keep on insisting the greatsword does higher dps(read: DAMAGE PER SECOND) but you haven’t even seen or done computations with regards to this.

You claim that sword is single target oriented, when if fact 2 out of 3 hits on its chain are PBAoE.

Anyway, here are actual videos so you can see for yourself damage numbers :

Sword:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA66L-0hQnU

GS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFdhxATw2Jw

Izaya.2906:

You keep on insisting the greatsword does higher dps(read: DAMAGE PER SECOND) but you haven’t even seen or done computations with regards to this.

And this is exactly where you are wrong. It’s kinda sad, but I guess that experience is something that people are too lazy about.

While I have been testing all possible builds on all kinds of situations – I came to some conclusions and results. Since you are not even interested in them – it’s a waste of time to share them.

But it’s interesting to say “maths say” when you didn’t provide any, either. I tested the possibilities myself, hence I’m comfortable by the “best” I tested. If you are not – it’s a personal matter.
I suggest both of us to enjoy the personal “best” for our own. This conversations became pointless a nice time ago, since seemly everyone expects the “meta” to win in every possible scenario.
The difference in straight-minded between us is that I HAVE TESTED your sword versus GS – while you denied it by someone else’s math (who might have wanted GS to be worse). But let me ask you… What has higher probability of truth? A man who says something is impossible, or someone who says he already did the exact same thing… ?
If you didn’t manage to do it – don’t claim it’s impossible.

It is pretty widely accepted that 1h sword does more damage than GS. If you have proof otherwise, you need to post the math. The excuse that people don’t want solid proof because we’re closed minded is getting old. Prove your point or stop telling the entire GW2 community only you know the truth. If you can prove it, no one is going to argue with math.

Hi guys, Guang popping in just to let you know that sword is way, way more DPS than greatsword. The math’s been done and it isn’t even remotely ambiguous. We’re talking in the range of almost 25-30% more depending on how you choose to slice it.

GS isn’t bad to the point where it’s unusable like LB is, but you really shouldn’t be camping it. Keep it on hand for the opening burst/short-CD block/auto-attack evade and you’ll be fine, and use a sword when it’s DPS time.

Tragic Positive.9356:

You’d notice he said he is a LongBow user. Also – if he is asking for the best DPS, I’d say he wanted a personal DPS. If I wanted a supportive DPS build – I’d specify my request.

The funny thing is, the supportive DPS build also has better personal DPS. A simple Effective Power analysis will tell you this.

Consider the following scenario:
Suppportive build: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBMhF6kRFaVxSWwVQ4axA7B1yAIg5mBdg3qYLy4nTk9A-TBSBABPt/Alq/YmSwrU+hn+mFOECA8kCy7EAEA4AggwDCYUA-e
personal build (the one you linked earlier): http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRnMqQrgWyCuqAXLGYPQWHoRB2Z+My12Lu7EJ-TBCBABVcIAga/BIuAAVq+zZKBxS5HAPAAPOCABAOA43f/93f/tUARMMC-e
Both are using longbows (which will bias the analysis into the favor of your build because of the presence of an additional modifier) on a single target under optimal conditions doing the same rotation.

Support:
Modifiers = 2.31 (Ranger, night/force, dungeon potion, vuln, steady focus, flanking, nature magic, traited frost spirit)
EP = 27119

Personal:
Modifiers = 2.23 (Ranger, night/force, dungeon potion, vuln, steady focus, flanking, eagle eye, untraited frost spirit)
EP = 24361

Result:
Personal dps is 10% worst while also decreasing your group dps by 11.5%

I don’t have a link to Nike’s old spreadsheet, but this one should still do:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H8FwevtNHMhoBQ7QkxYJF1W7DLTDkuKtA_oNSk4OOes/edit#gid=1347975015

Obviously, if you’re running a 2 ranger party and the support ranger is buffing you then you’re going to do more DPS. I consider this an extreme and selfish scenario because 2 ranger compositions are bad and impractical.

Summary: If you’re the only ranger in the party, you’ll do more DPS with the support (meta) build.

Edit: I made a mistake with the critical damage modifier, but I did the same mistake in both builds so it’ll still be the same result, just lower EP numbers,

I think sword is ultimately a better weapon for damage, but I can definitely appreciate the GS as well. It works a lot better for short periods, though – just the way it goes, which I can find annoying.

I wonder why they let sword be so good. It requires no traits, or indeed build to come up on top in raw damage, as long as you have power. I’m not hating on it or so, just curious.

Amethyst Lure.5624:

I wonder why they let sword be so good. It requires no traits, or indeed build to come up on top in raw damage, as long as you have power. I’m not hating on it or so, just curious.

Because the GS has an evade on the autoattack. Greater self preservation means you need to do less damage or no one would ever use a 1h sword for anything.

Amethyst Lure.5624:

I think sword is ultimately a better weapon for damage, but I can definitely appreciate the GS as well. It works a lot better for short periods, though – just the way it goes, which I can find annoying.

I wonder why they let sword be so good. It requires no traits, or indeed build to come up on top in raw damage, as long as you have power. I’m not hating on it or so, just curious.

It’s either that or GS since it’s basically a rule that melee has to be stronger than ranged. Normally the GS would be stronger than 1HS due to its cooldowns (see: warrior, guardian) but in this case the ranger’s GS has a ton of defensive stuff built in that would make it being the highest DPS weapon a bit unfair.

I personally wouldn’t be against a buff to GS putting it at least on par with 1H sword (a 10% buff to auto-attack damage and a cooldown reduction on Maul to 6s would do it, but it’s probably not going to happen.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I personally wouldn’t be against a buff to GS putting it at least on par with 1H sword (a 10% buff to auto-attack damage and a cooldown reduction on Maul to 6s would do it, but it’s probably not going to happen.

Maul is already on 6 sec CD O.o
I’d personally buff some of the Ranger’s Burst damage.
Ranged (Rapid Fire) oriented and warhorn’s 4 buffed (it’s very low dmg for 25sec CD that can be negated even by LoS, evades and many other things).
Rangers are practically made for doing DPS – but we still cannot match any Ele/Warrior/Engineer build in full Zerk. Not even our constant dps can match their burst dps (not dmg – but dps).

I’ve found it’s more practical to have a general sense of things and be somewhat flexible, than endlessly splitting hairs.

For instance, in the wilds of actual gameplay it’s not uncommon to come across a party with spotty vulnerability and fury coverage. So, sometimes I run offhand axe and sometimes I run with horn depending on what the group is deficient in. However well warhorn parses out on napkin math, it doesn’t amount to hill a of beans if the group has fury and needs vulnerability.

The funny thing is, the supportive DPS build also has better personal DPS.

I swear to god, this game sometimes.

I’ve actually been having great results with this build: http://intothemists.com/guides/82-moon_moon_the_swordhorn_pve_guide

Granted it hasn’t been updated in a while but for PvE and Dungeons I’ve found it works well. I’ve changed a few things based on the information in the comments at the bottom because what was said made sense.

Fluffball.8307:

It is pretty widely accepted that 1h sword does more damage than GS. If you have proof otherwise, you need to post the math. The excuse that people don’t want solid proof because we’re closed minded is getting old. Prove your point or stop telling the entire GW2 community only you know the truth. If you can prove it, no one is going to argue with math.

Hint: The highest damage output of Sword is sequence of (1). with a 1.5 sec cast time altogether.
The GS filler (1) is made of 1.75 cast time with approximately 8% lower damage than Sword’s sequence. The filler is then almost 18% off of the Swords Highest output for the higher cast times.

But you can add a rotation of 3/4 cast time Maul with almost as high damage as 75% of rotation of Sword’s (1) – you can check wiki for the damage and coefficients. Sword sequence has 1.9 altogether, maul has 1.5 with less than half cast time (if we take animation delays into account).
If you use Swoop in melee range it’s cast time is very close to being 1/2 with a coefficient 1.
You can also add Throw from (4) with 3/4 cast time and 1.0 coefficient on a 15 sec CD with a Physical projectile finisher.
If you throw these into a rotation – you’ll gain a DPS in comparison to Sword’s in value of almost 90% (took 45/48/43/46/48 seconds with Swords WITH warhorn to kill a certain high HP NPC; 48/51/48/49/52 seconds with GS).
You also gain a Leap Finisher that can add damage in some cases but nothing noticeable.

But what is important that while only a bit more than two thirds of Sword’s damage is AoE – ALL OF GS’S DAMAGE IS AoE. You also provide 7 vulnerability in average if you use GS – so you can add 7% of everyone’s damage to your calculation, or you can take 7% damage from yours if there is 25 vuln on target from other people.

If we come up with a 3K dps number (may be any) … Sword with warhorn will deal around 7100 (3K+ a bit more than 2/3 of that amount) dps, while GS will deal a full amount of 3x 2700 – which is somehow around 8100.
If 2 targets are present – Sword will deal around 5050 damage, while GS will deal 5400.

So the summary is that GS can be on par with Sword (even better on 1 target if vuln. stacks are not capped) and will ALWAYS be better if there are at least 2 targets present.

P.S. I can’t imagine I wasted so much time sharing something that will surely get doubted by whichever reasons. Anyways – I hope someone will have a use of it of any kind.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Izaya.2906:

You keep on insisting the greatsword does higher dps(read: DAMAGE PER SECOND) but you haven’t even seen or done computations with regards to this.

And this is exactly where you are wrong. It’s kinda sad, but I guess that experience is something that people are too lazy about.

While I have been testing all possible builds on all kinds of situations – I came to some conclusions and results. Since you are not even interested in them – it’s a waste of time to share them.

But it’s interesting to say “maths say” when you didn’t provide any, either. I tested the possibilities myself, hence I’m comfortable by the “best” I tested. If you are not – it’s a personal matter.
I suggest both of us to enjoy the personal “best” for our own. This conversations became pointless a nice time ago, since seemly everyone expects the “meta” to win in every possible scenario.
The difference in straight-minded between us is that I HAVE TESTED your sword versus GS – while you denied it by someone else’s math (who might have wanted GS to be worse). But let me ask you… What has higher probability of truth? A man who says something is impossible, or someone who says he already did the exact same thing… ?
If you didn’t manage to do it – don’t claim it’s impossible.

I didn’t say I based it solely on “someone else’s math”. You assumed that I or other people haven’t verified it or tested it ingame.

People have accepted “some else’s math” because it has alread been verified to be true. It’s like arguing “Why are you using pythagorean theorem in your textbook? Have you manually checked it to be correct? The proofs for it are invalid because I did my own tests and it is wrong!”

I’ve played rangers heavily in dungeons to know which actually does more DPS, I don’t record runs though but feel free to check the links I posted of other rangers doing somewhat controlled DPS tests on an actual dungeon boss on my previous post.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Fluffball.8307:

It is pretty widely accepted that 1h sword does more damage than GS. If you have proof otherwise, you need to post the math. The excuse that people don’t want solid proof because we’re closed minded is getting old. Prove your point or stop telling the entire GW2 community only you know the truth. If you can prove it, no one is going to argue with math.

Hint: The highest damage output of Sword is sequence of (1). with a 1.5 sec cast time altogether.
The GS filler (1) is made of 1.75 cast time with approximately 8% lower damage than Sword’s sequence. The filler is then almost 18% off of the Swords Highest output for the higher cast times.

But you can add a rotation of 3/4 cast time Maul with almost as high damage as 75% of rotation of Sword’s (1) – you can check wiki for the damage and coefficients. Sword sequence has 1.9 altogether, maul has 1.5 with less than half cast time (if we take animation delays into account).
If you use Swoop in melee range it’s cast time is very close to being 1/2 with a coefficient 1.
You can also add Throw from (4) with 3/4 cast time and 1.0 coefficient on a 15 sec CD with a Physical projectile finisher.
If you throw these into a rotation – you’ll gain a DPS in comparison to Sword’s in value of almost 90% (took 45/48/43/46/48 seconds with Swords WITH warhorn to kill a certain high HP NPC; 48/51/48/49/52 seconds with GS).
You also gain a Leap Finisher that can add damage in some cases but nothing noticeable.

But what is important that while only a bit more than two thirds of Sword’s damage is AoE – ALL OF GS’S DAMAGE IS AoE. You also provide 7 vulnerability in average if you use GS – so you can add 7% of everyone’s damage to your calculation, or you can take 7% damage from yours if there is 25 vuln on target from other people.

If we come up with a 3K dps number (may be any) … Sword with warhorn will deal around 7100 (3K+ a bit more than 2/3 of that amount) dps, while GS will deal a full amount of 3x 2700 – which is somehow around 8100.
If 2 targets are present – Sword will deal around 5050 damage, while GS will deal 5400.

So the summary is that GS can be on par with Sword (even better on 1 target if vuln. stacks are not capped) and will ALWAYS be better if there are at least 2 targets present.

P.S. I can’t imagine I wasted so much time sharing something that will surely get doubted by whichever reasons. Anyways – I hope someone will have a use of it of any kind.

Yes, that maybe true for trash mobs, but the current best DPS rotation is starting off with GS maul & swoop then switching to 1h sword autto-attacks(trash should be killed before the time maul is off CD).

Izaya.2906:

Yes, that maybe true for trash mobs, but the current best DPS rotation is starting off with GS maul & swoop then switching to 1h sword autto-attacks(trash should be killed before the time maul is off CD).

Well, the best DPS is switching between them – to be fair =D. Fire off all the GS’s cooldowns – then swap to Sword+Horn – blow it, wait for like 12 seconds – blow GS’s CDs again – repeat.

Also – to reply to the “previous videos”. There was no using GS’s rotation (only blasting (2) on cooldown) – therefore if I am able to beat the video’s numbers – I don’t have to be tied up by it’s results, either, do I?

I took the time to spreadsheet it.
Sword: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V3c75gsux4vMd8tGB28NB8SzIstczqoG3eLLrRyD9QU/edit?usp=sharing

16.66 sword AA chains in 30 seconds =
( 17(0.6) + 17(0.6) + 16(0.7) ) / 30 = 1.053

Sword: 6471.44 DPS

GS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E28jWhkDoxE https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12rFV22W8oUfXb0gEFY8yhbUUgRs8qLJf_uS9qYpHDO4/edit?usp=sharing

Now, this one is a lot harder to model, so I tried my best to do the rotation perfectly. Feel free to submit your own rotation or critique this one.

#of skill uses
swoops: 3(1.0)
Mauls: 4 (1.5)
Crippling throw: 2(1.0)

Slash: 11(0.55)
Slice: 7(0.55)
Power stab: 5(0.65)

( 3(1.0) + 4(1.5) + 2(1.0) + 11(0.55) + 7(0.55) + 5(0.65) ) / 30 = 0.805

GS: 5442.03 DPS

100(( 6471.44 / 5442.03) – 1) = 18.9%

Sword is better by 19% on single target.

You don’t need to math or spreadsheet that GS is better on 2 or 3 targets, that’s obvious, but in general single target boss dps is the most important thing.

Best part is, you can’t use #3 on some of the fights you need to GS on and using #4 for dps is not a good idea.

hopefully not too dumb question -

as I understand, Rangers have a reduced damage coefficient to compensate for the pet.

So would that mean that Force, Night and other % modifiers give less bang than they would on another prof (say a War) with the same Power?

Also, would Air &/or Fire be just as good on a Ranger, as on any other class?
Or are their coefficients based on the Ranger’s reduced damage?

Not dumb at all

Bad news is; Ranger does get less out of percentage based direct damage multipliers.
Good news is; Air and Fire are their own independent attacks with their own damage coefficients.

TurtleDragon.3108:

You don’t need to math or spreadsheet that GS is better on 2 or 3 targets, that’s obvious, but in general single target boss dps is the most important thing.

Best part is, you can’t use #3 on some of the fights you need to GS on and using #4 for dps is not a good idea.

Just like you can’t use Sword at some fights either. It has the same mechanic as Sword’s last sequence attack.
Also – for bosses the highest DPS output is still BM version since not only you can deal your stated damage but your pet’s damage is improved significantly too (if your pet dies – you’ll probably die on melee too). For Dungeons – the burst version of BM on Signet of the Hunt build seemed the way.
For personal DPS – that is.

Alacrity.4312:

hopefully not too dumb question -

as I understand, Rangers have a reduced damage coefficient to compensate for the pet.

So would that mean that Force, Night and other % modifiers give less bang than they would on another prof (say a War) with the same Power?

Also, would Air &/or Fire be just as good on a Ranger, as on any other class?
Or are their coefficients based on the Ranger’s reduced damage?

Modifiers sigils like Force are stronger than Air once you start to get buffs like might.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Also – for bosses the highest DPS output is still BM version since not only you can deal your stated damage but your pet’s damage is improved significantly too (if your pet dies – you’ll probably die on melee too). For Dungeons – the burst version of BM on Signet of the Hunt build seemed the way.
For personal DPS – that is.

No. If you’re putting points into BM, then you’re also lowering your “stated damage” and/or decreasing your contribution to group DPS. The increase in pet DPS would not be worth the trade-off.

I think I’m done wasting my time here in this thread.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Not only the ranger isn’t the class made for Might Stacking -

What??
My ranger that can solo stack 25 might, and share this with a pet, in seconds says hello!

Yes, ranger has crappy traits and utility for might, but so what. Use might stacking sigils with might sustaining runes and you are good to go. Oh, and there is a group might stacking pet as well, if you need more might.

I run a 5/6/0/3/0 zerker build with runes of Hoelbrak. Weapons are sword/xx with secondary axe/axe. Sigils of strength in MH, sigils accuracy in OH. If I need to go ranged, I swap to 6/5/0/3/0 , both bows have sigils of battle.

I haven’t done the maths to determine how high my DPS is, but suffice to say I have seen 10+k crits often enough

This is the build I use with my guild mates for basically any dungeon speed-run:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQRBMhx+0JjKUyitqgrgw1iB2DqlBQAzND6AvbRVcxT7NB-TxBEwAJOJAMV+xS9nU7P0R/AgHAwWlgAA-e

Runes of the ranger or scholar works good as well. You want to switch to GS only in situation where you know you have to dodge proprely (ex some dungeon bosses) or to LB in World Events.

Rather then that you go with Sword/horn + Sword/Axe to mantain your highest DPS possible, which is the auto-attack of the Sword. Pets skills are useful to the party for a little bit of extra might with the stalker (especially if your party lacks of ele) and fury with the red moa. Frost spirit is a must to have along with spotter while Sick’em, Quickening Zephyr and RaO are the best option to boost your DPS (or the one of your pet) through your utilities. Healing Spring is just OP and the best healing skill in the game for group support.

Hope that helped you^^

Usually when someone claims to be doing DPS “math” but then reveals that he’s using the tooltip’s ACTIVATION time and not the actual attack speed, that’s a good place to stop.

I would like you to get on your guardian (or roll one if you have to) and get on your scepter and tell me if it looks anything like you’re shooting four orbs per second (since the activation time is listed as 1/4th second).

The actual attack speed of a ranger sword chain is about one every 1.85s, while the GS chain is little bit over 3s total. Feel free to go back and revise your math for that and tell me how kitten GS looks after that.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Usually when someone claims to be doing DPS “math” but then reveals that he’s using the tooltip’s ACTIVATION time and not the actual attack speed, that’s a good place to stop.

I would like you to get on your guardian (or roll one if you have to) and get on your scepter and tell me if it looks anything like you’re shooting four orbs per second (since the activation time is listed as 1/4th second).

The actual attack speed of a ranger sword chain is about one every 1.85s, while the GS chain is little bit over 3s total. Feel free to go back and revise your math for that and tell me how kitten GS looks after that.

Than it also means you can stop attending Ranger forums… ? I mentioned the animation times – you just ignored it. You wanted Math – which I provided.
The animation cast times are not stated in any database that can be accessed. You simply want me to check the exact animation time for every ability I use experimentally – which is more of a Physics method than Maths – based on measuring the time… Which is even more precise in longer time periods – which (correct me if I’m wrong) I stated.

Maybe this is time for both of us to play what we are better at. 6 years of Math on Hunter class was more than enough for me to apply some of it Ranger scenario (1 year). Let’s say I don’t need to spend my time sharing my effort to players who are clearly better at Maths and Testing than me, shall we.
This is going to be my last reply for this thread. I wish all of you an enjoyable day.

On the subject of hidden cast time caused by the animation blending system;

If you’re going to use GS, I’d try a tempo without Crippling Throw. There’s a bit of a hidden timesink in it and honestly the cooldown just seems to come at awkward times. Personally I would use something that you can get into a good groove with that doesn’t clip your autoattack so much.

More like;
Sw_SSP_Ma_SSP_SSP(+F2)_Hb_Ma_Sw_SSP_SSP_Ma_SSP_SSP_Sw_SSP_SSP_Ma_Sw_…..

Also, while I have no objections to the overarching hypothesis that Sword> GS on single targets, I do think we have a tendency to misrepresent the Sword a bit.

On a practical level you wouldn’t just be sitting on the autoattack; offhand skills and SS tends to get used to some extent.* Moreover, despite our perceptions that Sword is an aggressive weapon and Greatsword is a defensive one, in PvE if you break the autoattack chain to use another skill on Sword it’s usually for defensive/tactical reasons and Greatsword it’s for aggressive reasons. So, if I clip Powerstab that’s on my own head, but if I clip Kick/Pounce I probably couldn’t help it because it’s a reaction to something.

*YMMV; DV Battle length.

/edit:
TP;
I get where you may have gotten the idea actual scientific method isn’t required to talk about this stuff, given passing off hypothesis as theory is sort of the standard practice of theorycraft. But this game’s an odd case in that the tooltips don’t have a true representation of the time spent on animations, so you need to run some test cases to simply access the information that would be available in other games on the wiki.

He’s been playing Hunter for 6 years man, clearly he’s better at math than us non-Hunter noobs.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

He’s been playing Hunter for 6 years man, clearly he’s better at math than us non-Hunter noobs.

I totally had something witty about hunter intelligence and math, but then I had a flashback about huntards yelling for heals and pets with taunt on and just got sad.