Guild Wars 2

Hi.
Recently i’ve been considering a major gear and build update on my ranger but i don’t know what direction i should take, as i’m not up-to-date with recent game changes, updates and trends. Currently i’m running mostly condi dmg build:

Rampager’s gear
Runes of Grenth
Chrysocola trinkets
SB/LB
Traits: 20/30/20/0/0
2 bears

I feel it’s a bit messy and chaotic, thus it’d be nice to make some improvements. I really like traps and stuff, i’ve been doing quite well with those, but i wonder if there are any other, probably more viable builds. My major concerns are:

1. If Condi build is still a good option, what should i do to make it more effective?
2. What is the current Ranger’s FotM?
3. Is it really that necessary to boost your pets with BM traits?

Thanks in advance.

luq.2786:

1. If Condi build is still a good option, what should i do to make it more effective?
2. What is the current Ranger’s FotM?
3. Is it really that necessary to boost your pets with BM traits?

1. Condi is always a good option.. My condition damage build used the TA armor set (Power/Precision/Condition dmg and Nightmare runes: increased cond duration and dmg). However, I would switch of the LB (since not so many conditions can be applied with that) and use a Torch in offhand (mainhand Axe/Sword, feel free to choose there).
2. We recently got a shortbow nerf in range (but a little boost in dmg) and the leach distance of the pet has significantly decreased also.. So you’ll be seeing a lot of whining on the ranger forums.. Nevertheless, whatever you choose to build, if you enjoy it, it’s your FotM
3. Nope, not needed at all.. I don’t think I ever invested any points in BM with all my builds..

Now-a-days I switch weapons and pets a lot. Usually I’m running a sword/horn or axe/horn or gs in combo with a shortbow or longbow with either ppMF gear or ppcondi gear. My traits I have settled on 20/30/20/0/0. With most of it concentrating on upping DPS. I don’t have the game infront of me but I know I use the cool down traits for bows and swords. I will switch out to the trappers expertise when I need to do some tagging (like @ Claw of Jormag). I use QZ, Sharpen Edges (the one with the bleed for the next five hits), and the condi removing signet or the speed increasing signet both of which I only use for the passive. I use entangle or roa depending situation as well. It’s not like my warrior that I have kitted up for dungeons and that’s pretty much where he stays traits and equipment wise. For my ranger, the jack of all trades and master of none, I’m going all celestial so my weapons and traits determine the build type. I think it’s going to work out well in most situations since being melee gets the most DPS gotta have some survivability… but doing that with traits I give up too much DPS. Of course, I may end up being wrong or I may end up really loving it. Don’t know until I get there I guess. Then again I am one of those that wants a perma-stow then gain buff option from pets. If I got that I’d be too busy playing the game to ever get on the forums again. Speaking of pets, I normally run with stalker, jag, red moa, or devourers. Stalker and moa usually stay on passive as I just need them for those F2 abilities.

And I really don’t like the condition build. I’ve been testing it out the past few weeks and overall it takes longer to kill things than direct damage. I just can’t get the numbers pour off. I guess it goes back to the jack of all trades and master of none deal. Well, I guess would could be considered the masters of regen??? For whatever that is worth.

Please listen to this guy. If you want to run a build you like, then do whatever you want. But if you care about efficiency – thats the way to go.

Think direct damage says it all: u can’t take damage away. Make sure u have enough power and toughness and u can do all high level pve stuff. I use red moa to boost fury and the other pet depends on circumstances. I would try out other pets than bears. I prefer to use pets that give something to party. Running 30 30 10 0 0. Can do melee without any problem. Attack and toughness bit more than 3 K. health 21 k something. Using runes of the soldier and ascended gear. Most important is that u get a balanced build: have enough durability and enough damage output.

Molch.2078:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Bjq1vcnhpQ

Please listen to this guy. If you want to run a build you like, then do whatever you want. But if you care about efficiency – thats the way to go.

!!!
Especially when you go dungeons, fotm. Don’t be a “I have a bear and play LB”-burden. It’s a pain for the whole group.

Thanks for shedding some light on this matter. I am going to think it over again.

the end.2039:

Especially when you go dungeons, fotm. Don’t be a “I have a bear and play LB”-burden. It’s a pain for the whole group.

I use a longbow in dungeons. I also never use a one handed sword.

Quarktastic.1027:

I use a longbow in dungeons. I also never use a one handed sword.

Before answering, some questions:

Do you have greatsword?
Do you use berzerker stats?
What pets do you use?

In PvE, as long as I used our beloved brown bear, and had at least 10 points into BM for that bond, I was never in danger of dying. With that, i’ve found glass cannon to be the most effective as I don’t have the patience for long drawn out battles. I’m not speaking from a dungeon perspective as I dont play them

the end.2039:

Quarktastic.1027:

I use a longbow in dungeons. I also never use a one handed sword.

Before answering, some questions:

Do you have greatsword?
Do you use berzerker stats?
What pets do you use?

Yes.
No.
Whatever suits my fancy, but mostly drakes.

1. Why staying range sucks in PvE – a mathematical approach

1.1 Gear, Dmg. Ratio, Eff. HP

To explain some stuff i need to define (if unknown) what is damage ratio (dmg rat) and effective HP (eff HP)

Damage is calculated by the following:

damage done = weapon damage * power * (skill specific coefficient / targets armor)

We see that one important point is power. But how do we get critchance and critical dmg in this?

With the following:

adjusted power = power * ((critchance*(1,5 + critdmg))+1-critchance)

So if looking at what the gear does to your damage, you can look how big the adjusted power is in comparison to having no gear (base power with no gear 916). This is what the damage ratio tells you…

damage ratio = ((power + 916) * ((critchance*(1,5 + critdmg))+1-critchance)) / 916

To make it easy: the higher the damage ratio is, the higher all of your skills gonna hit.

The effective health points is a way to try to express how armor interacts with your life pool. It’s quiet easy to calculate with

effective health points = health points * toughness

Now lets look at the ranger with a base health of 15082 HP and 1064 armor. A full berzerker armor + 2H weapon without runes/orbs and traits gives you extra to your base attributes:

1002 Power
698 Pre
61 Crit

This transfers for a ranger to:

2,96 dmg rat
29862 eff HP

We want a bit more defense and change rings, chest, head, and leg armor to knight stats. The rest stays zerker.

You get:

903 Power
698 Pre
347 Tough
45 Crit

->
2,69 dmg rat
35069 eff HP

Full knight

898 Power
1009 Pre
1081 Tough

2,14 dmg rat
41943 eff HP

You are loosing about 30% dmg just from zerker to knight, but you gain about 40% eff HP. So this was the basic explanations of how i quantify damage.

1.2 Range sucks for the obvious reason

To make a long story short: there’s a simple rule in GW2

range DPS < melee DPS

I think every melee weapon in this game has a bigger average DPS, a lot of them can cleave (good against trash mobs). So only for this reason you should go melee, because in PvE

dmg >>>>> rest (has to do with the terrible design of the dungeons, but this is a other chapter)

1.3 Range sucks for the not so obvious reasons

To use the longbow effective you need to be at max range. So lets say you have a 20+x/20+x/x/x/x build and a knight/zerk mix-gear (just did this for example, it’s to show trends). You are able to maintain permanent fury on yourself and 1 stack of might. Lets look at the adjusted power:

Attributes:

1138 Pow
898 Pre
347 Tough
65 Crit

=>

3,96 eff dmg
35096 (just for info, is irrelevant, because it won’t change in further calculations)

Lets say you wouldn’t stay at max range (because you use a melee weapon) and near a guardian with empowering might. Lets say he’s able to give you 4 another stacks of might. What does this change?

1278 Pow
898 Pre
347 Tough
65 Crit

=>

4,23 eff dmg (+ 7%)

7% more damage just because of standing near a guardian? Not bad… But lets look what would happen if you are in range of a banner of discipline and a warrior with empower allies?

1533 Pow
1048 Pre
347 Tough
80 Crit

=>

5,24 eff dmg (+ 33%)

So just because of the decision to not stack with your fellow group members you are losing in this example 33% (!!!) damage. It’s just an example but the trend will be always the same. You gonna loose a lot of potential damage, and your group is also loosing damage because they don’t get “spotter”. What would happen with a Mesmer and time warp? Another banner? Some other boon stacking professions (ele?)?

1.4 Conclusion

Reasons that speak against range combat:

- less DPS because of the way the GW2 mechanic works
- you are throwing away a lot of potential damage because you don’t get the boons, buffs from your group, because you’re 1200-1500 units away from them
- you are also throwing away potential damage potential of your group, because they can’t benefit from “spotter”, spirits.

P.S.: Sorry for bad english and/or calculation mistakes… Tired, just want to show trends.

the end.2039:

- you are throwing away a lot of potential damage because you don’t get the boons, buffs from your group, because you’re 1200-1500 units away from them
- you are also throwing away potential damage potential of your group, because they can’t benefit from “spotter”, spirits.

While yes this is true, this isn’t really the fault of players wanting to stay ranged, it’s a design flaw. If party support was actually group support and not just support to whoever happens to stand next to you this wouldn’t be an issue. Also saying range flat sucks because of the lower dps is disregarding other factors.

@OP, if you like traps and condis then go for it. There’s nothing wrong with having 1 condi player in group, the problem is multiple condi players (as they compete for condi cap).

Zorby.8236:

While yes this is true, this isn’t really the fault of players wanting to stay ranged, it’s a design flaw. If party support was actually group support and not just support to whoever happens to stand next to you this wouldn’t be an issue.

I don’t like the game design in this point either (especially the point “dmg >>> rest” in PvE). But for the moment it’s that way.
And yes, if you know all this, it’s your decision (therefore also your fault) to stay range and do less damage, party support. Like playing in GW1 a Wammo with mending. You can do it, you can decide to do it, but in the worst case you are the reason why your group fails. “Yeah, but i wanted to play a Paladin like class” Just be aware of it.

Zorby.8236:

Also saying range flat sucks because of the lower dps is disregarding other factors.

In PvE?
Personally i think longbow is quiet strong in WvW i have no real idea about sPvP/tPvP, but i think for the moment there’s this working spirit ranger build out there, where they use shortbow. So yes range has a meaning there. But nearly none in PvE (ok, in openworld events to stay range, go autoattack and make you a coffee).

This is the best high level FOTM build I know of—I really like the synergy from companion’s might, sigil of strength, high precision, and last but not least: fortyfing bond boon sharing (you basically end up with 25 might stacks on pet that are basically always up during combat). Also, it gives many group buffs; I really think this is approaching optimal. Enjoy!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Mighty-Ranger-High-Level-FOTM-7-12-2013/first#post2287031

^ 25 stacks on a heavily nerfed damage source, with flawed AI to boot.

2 bears

…

uggghhhh…..

…

</loop>

.

At the same time though…. I’d strongly caution against listening to some of these guys who will tell you damage is the only thing that matters. YOU ARE NOT A WARRIOR. ….it’s simply not in you. Your traits aren’t compressed enough. And Any time you see someone post some really big damage number with Ranger…. it’s b/c they stacked up damage buffs that any other Class can stack not only MUCH more often, but can typically share with the rest of their Party as well. (Fury & Regen is the only thing we can keep a constant duration running on and NEITHER OF THOSE STACK. )

Ilr, what you and everyone else doesn’t understand is that ranger brings DPS. You’re telling me the ranger isn’t massively raising DPS with +150 precision aoe and +7% damage? And aoe regen/condi removal plus protection and aoe chill/cripple to boot? Plus weakness on the boss? You don’t think that’s all synergizing to make the boss fight trivialized? Don’t forget the flame field for might blasts. I’m starting to wonder if you’ve ever tested this build.

Not to mention instant 20 stack vulnerability on the boss if you prefer longbow. In b4 you cry about longbow: just use it for the vuln stacks then melee. Gosh, that’s so hard. Longbow hits extremely hard now too so it’s actually a great choice.

>can you tell I’m sick of QQ from whiners who haven’t even tried this build?

Honestly, if you’re not taking spirits or fortyfing bond in a dungeon, you’re doing it wrong. In a 5 person party, only way pet gets boons is with the bond since there’s a cap of 5 on boons.

Second of all, I dont run two bears. That’s odd to say since my post doesn’t show that at all. TBH you’re making it harder not taking zerk with boons into high level fotm. You get 1 shotted anyways, reflection/dodge/protection/kill stuff fast keeps you safe. Finally, your presumption that pets don’t do damage is false. Pet damage was toned down but they still hit hard, especially with roughly +850 power from 25 might stacks.

Try it—with drakes not bears! Read the post bro

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82923-the-sword-and-board-dps-ranger-build/

This is basically everything you need to know about PvE rangers for dungeons. Brazil basically copied my build as far as I can tell. Use his version if you’re lazy, read through mine after for all the details.

I’d reccomend a knights emblazoned armor set. It increases your toughness thus allowing survival and your precision so you do more criticals. Then get some sigils that inflict bleeding on every crit and BAM. You can survive and have a large DPS

twinkletoes.9538:

I’d reccomend a knights emblazoned armor set. It increases your toughness thus allowing survival and your precision so you do more criticals. Then get some sigils that inflict bleeding on every crit and BAM. You can survive and have a large DPS

You don’t want knights because toughness will draw aggro and ranger dies in aggro. You want to avoid aggro if possible, especially if you run Gaunglai’s build with nothing in wilderness survival.

If you want to live, trait signet of stone with signet of beastmaster (grandmaster in marks). Knights armor will just slow you down and get you killed. It’s counter-intuitive but that’s the game ANET made. The reason is because everyone will be in berserker and if you have toughness, the bosses will think you’re the “tank”. You will likely die more due to killing things slower while having more aggro.

Also, don’t spend gold on emblazoned when you can run a dungeon for armor. You should be able to get berserker rares cheaply with maybe one or two exotics from map completion. Then hit up one of the dungeons that give berserker armor.

And, please, take spotter and a vigorous frost spirit. If people are going down, use a stone spirit too.

Chopps.5047:

twinkletoes.9538:

I’d reccomend a knights emblazoned armor set. It increases your toughness thus allowing survival and your precision so you do more criticals. Then get some sigils that inflict bleeding on every crit and BAM. You can survive and have a large DPS

You don’t want knights because toughness will draw aggro and ranger dies in aggro. You want to avoid aggro if possible, especially if you run Gaunglai’s build with nothing in wilderness survival.

I dunno if you’d want to use knight’s armor. But if there’s one class which could survive aggro even if naked, it’s ranger. We get so many evades, vigor regens, and cripples I could kite most things all day long if my partner in crime were dishing out the damage. I generally do fine if I get aggro on boss fights. It’s when I get swarmed and can’t pick out the individual attack animations to time my dodges that I go down.

ilr.9675:

^ 25 stacks on a heavily nerfed damage source, with flawed AI to boot.

At the same time though…. I’d strongly caution against listening to some of these guys who will tell you damage is the only thing that matters. YOU ARE NOT A WARRIOR. ….it’s simply not in you. Your traits aren’t compressed enough. And Any time you see someone post some really big damage number with Ranger…. it’s b/c they stacked up damage buffs that any other Class can stack not only MUCH more often, but can typically share with the rest of their Party as well. (Fury & Regen is the only thing we can keep a constant duration running on and NEITHER OF THOSE STACK. )

That’s interesting contribution ilr. I looked through the thread, and I didn’t see your recommendation for a build, though…so what would you recommend?