Guild Wars 2

Ok, so I’ve been playing Warrior pretty much since release. I have an 80, have him all geared up in Exotics, and I use a Longbow as my primary weapon. Longbow on Warrior shoots two projectiles at once, and both are 100% finishers. They interact with a given combo field twice.

Now playing Ranger, the auto attack is down to a 20% finisher. Honestly I’m lucky if I can get a single combo proc from my auto attacks through my 3s flame field on the trap. I have a couple guaranteed finishers on shortbow, but this doesn’t even come close to proccing combos maybe 6 times through the same field on Warrior.

Honestly, I dont think Ranger needs a buff in this area, rather Warriors might need a nerf, even though it would break my build. The way my Warrior is built I build up a good 13-15 seconds of burning on my target with one round of combos through my field, but on Ranger I’m lucky to get 3 seconds.

Is this intended? What can a Ranger do that a Warrior can’t do better? I basically have my flame trap move except it’s radius is larger, it lasts longer, does more damage, I don’t have to wait for it to activate, and I can lay it down at 1200 range. It costs Adrenaline, but with Adrenaline-Building shouts and reduced burst cost it’s almost ALWAYS up. Should Warriors really be better at using Bows than a ranger?

People would argue that the Bow is not the only weapon that is best performed by a Ranger, and infact the Ranger’s abilities shines elsewhere.

The whole nature tree hugging concept for a ranger apparently doesn’t revolve around the mastery of the use of bows (apparently), even though its the most prefered choice for a weapon by most players. Maybe because of mainstream popularity.

I think the developers got too carried away with the lore of the profession, and not taking enough time to best design the weapon’s abilities that is most suited to the class.

However, I just don’t understand how other professions can use the same weapons, but produce better results with it compared to Rangers. I can’t even comprehend how frustrating and confusing that is.

Honestly it seems to be every class I play, maybe not exclusive to Rangers. I think I just have a build that needs nerfing, lol. Longbow on Warrior really shouldn’t combo two shots at 100% of the time AND be given a combo field I can keep up with gaps of 2 seconds every 10 seconds or something, craziness. :P No combos I’ve found playing around in sPvP comes close. Or at least give Shortbow 50% or even 75% finisher on it’s autoattack, same deal with Longbow. Maybe make it a trait? Idk… at 20% it feels very impotent in comparison.

I just wanna find SOMETHING on ANY OTHER class that feels as powerful, heh, so I can level and gear something else. Even if it means my Warrior build gets changed.

Warrior = favorite child
Ranger = red headed stepchild

It’s just par for the course.

Absolem.2941:

Should Warriors really be better at using Bows than a ranger?

Yes. The warrior is supposed to be the best with weapons. The ranger is a ‘jack of all trades’ in Anet’s own words, so like for like the ranger should be inferior in a straight up slogging match. Ranger =/= ‘ranged combat’ it gets the name from it wandering (or ‘ranging’) the wilderness.
Besides, the ranger gets pets, which compensates.

Loki.4871:

Absolem.2941:

Should Warriors really be better at using Bows than a ranger?

Yes. The warrior is supposed to be the best with weapons. The ranger is a ‘jack of all trades’ in Anet’s own words, so like for like the ranger should be inferior in a straight up slogging match. Ranger =/= ‘ranged combat’ it gets the name from it wandering (or ‘ranging’) the wilderness.
Besides, the ranger gets pets, which compensates.

K so back to my original question. What exactly does Ranger do that Warrior doesn’t do better?

*Dodging. A sword ranger essentially has 2 extra dodges.
*Ranger warhorn is better (in my opinion)
*The ranger pet allows a ranger to continue to contribute even when knocked down or otherwise cc’d
*Ranger pet allows a ranger to engage multiple targets out of traditional AoE range
*Ranger pets also have a very wide range of abilities, with a diffrent effect for just about every pet, from AoE fears, to AoE Regen
*Ranger spirit of renewal is capable of rallying everyone around not just once but twice (3 times with traits) per cooldown, as well as making a skill based self rally possible (the spirit has a short cast time on it’s rez, activate it right before you go down and it will rez you as well)

Absolem.2941:

Loki.4871:

Absolem.2941:

Should Warriors really be better at using Bows than a ranger?

Yes. The warrior is supposed to be the best with weapons. The ranger is a ‘jack of all trades’ in Anet’s own words, so like for like the ranger should be inferior in a straight up slogging match. Ranger =/= ‘ranged combat’ it gets the name from it wandering (or ‘ranging’) the wilderness.
Besides, the ranger gets pets, which compensates.

K so back to my original question. What exactly does Ranger do that Warrior doesn’t do better?

Not sure but warrior bored me so I play ranger. And we drop combo fields better. Just wish we had a blast finisher somewhere to go with em until then steal a warriors banner….

Absolem.2941:

K so back to my original question. What exactly does Ranger do that Warrior doesn’t do better?

Generally speaking, they have more utility in terms of kiting and condition damage. A ranger can quite easily bleed, poison, chill and cripple on the same build with their pets.
Note that last word: pets. The ranger’s damage and utlility is ‘split’ between the pet and the ranger, which has it’s pros and it’s cons. The obvious con is if either get downed then your damage takes a big hit. On the other hand, if a warrior goes down that’s it. The ranger (or it’s pet) can keep fighting, to an extent.

Back to that longbow; 20% chance, yes. If you’ve got a devourer next to you, that’s 3 projectiles with a 20% chance each, so you’ve got a 60% chance for something, along with the chance to poison (devourer’s attacks) bleed (one of the devourer species and longbow). There’s also the traps. They get sneered at for not being grenades, but if you’re standing on a spike trap, anyone that tries to get you is in for a rude shock. They jump it, you point blank them with a longbow, and hey presto, they’re away from you and crippled.
The longbow’s rapid fire is also very good at stacking conditions, so if you drop, say, a frost trap and rapid fire, you force them to use their condition removal or sloooooowly waddle along.

Greiger.7092:

*Dodging. A sword ranger essentially has 2 extra dodges.
*Ranger warhorn is better (in my opinion)
*The ranger pet allows a ranger to continue to contribute even when knocked down or otherwise cc’d
*Ranger pet allows a ranger to engage multiple targets out of traditional AoE range
*Ranger pets also have a very wide range of abilities, with a diffrent effect for just about every pet, from AoE fears, to AoE Regen
*Ranger spirit of renewal is capable of rallying everyone around not just once but twice (3 times with traits) per cooldown, as well as making a skill based self rally possible (the spirit has a short cast time on it’s rez, activate it right before you go down and it will rez you as well)

Actually, we have 3 dodges in sword (2 on the number 2), and the spirit can Rez us 4 times with trait, first as soon as it spawns, second 30s into spawn, 3rd right before it dies(it lives a LITTLE longer then 60s allowing u to get off a 3rd) and then it does it again on death, he also purges all conditions from all allies in range.

Oh yeah, we can, you know, actually control enemies with our bows and just about every weapon we have whereas the warrior just goes RAWRZ SMASH!! With everything minus the shield and warhorn.

Durzlla.6295:

Greiger.7092:

*Dodging. A sword ranger essentially has 2 extra dodges.
*Ranger warhorn is better (in my opinion)
*The ranger pet allows a ranger to continue to contribute even when knocked down or otherwise cc’d
*Ranger pet allows a ranger to engage multiple targets out of traditional AoE range
*Ranger pets also have a very wide range of abilities, with a diffrent effect for just about every pet, from AoE fears, to AoE Regen
*Ranger spirit of renewal is capable of rallying everyone around not just once but twice (3 times with traits) per cooldown, as well as making a skill based self rally possible (the spirit has a short cast time on it’s rez, activate it right before you go down and it will rez you as well)

Actually, we have 3 dodges in sword (2 on the number 2).

Leap away works like dodge.
Leaping back does not provide any dodging.

So its still 2 dodges on main hand sword.

YumCHA.8706:

People would argue that the Bow is not the only weapon that is best performed by a Ranger, and infact the Ranger’s abilities shines elsewhere.

The whole nature tree hugging concept for a ranger apparently doesn’t revolve around the mastery of the use of bows (apparently), even though its the most prefered choice for a weapon by most players. Maybe because of mainstream popularity.

I think the developers got too carried away with the lore of the profession, and not taking enough time to best design the weapon’s abilities that is most suited to the class.

However, I just don’t understand how other professions can use the same weapons, but produce better results with it compared to Rangers. I can’t even comprehend how frustrating and confusing that is.

Lets hope the 15th changes that. Buffs should be coming and Im praying they address the longbow.

Why would you EVER main a longbow? Especially as a warrior?

Jay.3284:

Why would you EVER main a longbow? Especially as a warrior?

Ranger’s 4 and 5 on Longbow have some use. Especially 5. Otherwise you’re correct.

Honestly the 2 and 3 on Ranger LB aren’t bad either, it’s just that the damage on LB in general is poor and the autoattack is far too slow with mediocre damage.

Warrior longbow got 20% like the ranger longbow, not 100%

Loki.4871:

Back to that longbow; 20% chance, yes. If you’ve got a devourer next to you, that’s 3 projectiles with a 20% chance each, so you’ve got a 60% chance for something

Probability doesn’t work like that :p

Ranger shortbow generally does projectile finishers per second better than Ranger Longbow. Warrior longbow does projectile finishers better than Ranger longbow, too.

Warrior fires 2x with each attack. This is an effective 40% combo finisher rate per attack.

Da Poolp.6809:

Warrior longbow got 20% like the ranger longbow, not 100%

Loki.4871:

Back to that longbow; 20% chance, yes. If you’ve got a devourer next to you, that’s 3 projectiles with a 20% chance each, so you’ve got a 60% chance for something

Probability doesn’t work like that :p

In some regards, it does work like that.

In this example, 3 projectiles fired, each with 20% chance to proc.

First one, 20% chance proc. 80% chance no proc.

Same with the second… and the third. But, what combination of possibilities does that leave us with, and what are the chances of those outcomes? because they could all proc, or none..or one, two… stuff can happen here, and we need to calculate it by god!

.2 × .2 = .04 (2)
.2 × .8 = .16 (1)
.8 × .2 = .16 (1)
.8 × .8 = .64 (0)

.04 × .2 = .008 (3)
.04 × .8 = .032 (2)
.16 × .2 = .032 (2)
.16 × .8 = .128 (1)
.16 × .2 = .032 (2)
.16 × .8 = .128 (1)
.64 × .2 = .128 (1)
.64 × .8 = .512 (0)

Oh noes Rav! Why the wall of numberz?

Those represent the rate the different combinations of possible proc/noproc would occur. We have a 0.8% chance to proc all three shots, for example. While we have a 51.2% chance to not proc any of the three shots. Which means we have a 48.8% chance to proc at least one in those three shots.

But the tricky part, is that knowing the rate we proc at least one isn’t very helpful, not really. What we’re after is a little different. We are looking for the effective proc rate over time, of having fired 3 shots at 20% compared to just one. (That was the original point, if you remember)

To do that, we need to weight our probabilities based on the number of procs it results in.

So, that 0.8% chance to give us 3 procs becomes 2.4% rate to give us 1 proc (on average, over time ofc)

If we do that, for every probability or potential outcome, we end up with… whoa 60%.

Ravnodaus.5130:

Da Poolp.6809:

Warrior longbow got 20% like the ranger longbow, not 100%

Loki.4871:

Back to that longbow; 20% chance, yes. If you’ve got a devourer next to you, that’s 3 projectiles with a 20% chance each, so you’ve got a 60% chance for something

Probability doesn’t work like that :p

In some regards, it does work like that.
snip

Just have to jump in here and say that yes, while you’re looking at the effective proc rate, you’re not taking into account the attack rate of the different projectiles.

Ravnodaus.5130:

Da Poolp.6809:

Warrior longbow got 20% like the ranger longbow, not 100%

Loki.4871:

Back to that longbow; 20% chance, yes. If you’ve got a devourer next to you, that’s 3 projectiles with a 20% chance each, so you’ve got a 60% chance for something

Probability doesn’t work like that :p

In some regards, it does work like that.

In this example, 3 projectiles fired, each with 20% chance to proc.

First one, 20% chance proc. 80% chance no proc.

Same with the second… and the third. But, what combination of possibilities does that leave us with, and what are the chances of those outcomes? because they could all proc, or none..or one, two… stuff can happen here, and we need to calculate it by god!

.2 × .2 = .04 (2)
.2 × .8 = .16 (1)
.8 × .2 = .16 (1)
.8 × .8 = .64 (0)

.04 × .2 = .008 (3)
.04 × .8 = .032 (2)
.16 × .2 = .032 (2)
.16 × .8 = .128 (1)
.16 × .2 = .032 (2)
.16 × .8 = .128 (1)
.64 × .2 = .128 (1)
.64 × .8 = .512 (0)

Oh noes Rav! Why the wall of numberz?

Those represent the rate the different combinations of possible proc/noproc would occur. We have a 0.8% chance to proc all three shots, for example. While we have a 51.2% chance to not proc any of the three shots. Which means we have a 48.8% chance to proc at least one in those three shots.

But the tricky part, is that knowing the rate we proc at least one isn’t very helpful, not really. What we’re after is a little different. We are looking for the effective proc rate over time, of having fired 3 shots at 20% compared to just one. (That was the original point, if you remember)

To do that, we need to weight our probabilities based on the number of procs it results in.

So, that 0.8% chance to give us 3 procs becomes 2.4% rate to give us 1 proc (on average, over time ofc)

If we do that, for every probability or potential outcome, we end up with… whoa 60%.

There is no “tricky part”, the probability is like you said 48.8%. If you add the “0.8%”, you count the same probability more than 1 time. And like Lediath said, if you want to do that, you need to take care about the attack rate, and the devourer attack rate is low.

Absolem.2941:

Should Warriors really be better at using Bows than a ranger?

Yeah, melee rangers! <3

Greiger.7092:

*Dodging. A sword ranger essentially has 2 extra dodges.
*Ranger warhorn is better (in my opinion)
*The ranger pet allows a ranger to continue to contribute even when knocked down or otherwise cc’d
*Ranger pet allows a ranger to engage multiple targets out of traditional AoE range
*Ranger pets also have a very wide range of abilities, with a diffrent effect for just about every pet, from AoE fears, to AoE Regen
*Ranger spirit of renewal is capable of rallying everyone around not just once but twice (3 times with traits) per cooldown, as well as making a skill based self rally possible (the spirit has a short cast time on it’s rez, activate it right before you go down and it will rez you as well)

It’s so apparent you’ve never played Ranger (or at least mained one), it’s not even funny !

some classes doesnt even have finishers with one or another weapon but only fields
or they are with longer CD while all our attacks can trigger the finisher effect and they do it a lot also for some fields the chance is 100%
i dont see where the problem with the 20% is

Each classes got finishers, the one that has the least is necro with 4

Loki.4871:

Absolem.2941:

Should Warriors really be better at using Bows than a ranger?

Yes. The warrior is supposed to be the best with weapons. The ranger is a ‘jack of all trades’ in Anet’s own words, so like for like the ranger should be inferior in a straight up slogging match. Ranger =/= ‘ranged combat’ it gets the name from it wandering (or ‘ranging’) the wilderness.
Besides, the ranger gets pets, which compensates.

The ranger class description on the GW2 website, (with a picture of a ranger with BOW in hand):

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

See on the ranger forums we have to make all these weird excuses for why warrior and thief do bows better than us.

BTW Loki in case you are not a native English speaker “Unparalleled” means “the best at”. So “in ANET’s own words” Rangers are the best archers in this game.

Yasha.5963:

Loki in case you are not a native English speaker “Unparalleled” means “the best at”. So “in ANET’s own words” Rangers are the best archers in this game.

Damage alone doesn’t make something the best.

Most auto-attack ranged finishers are 20% chance. Then you have specials which have 100% finisher.

If Warriors have a 100% ranged finisher on their auto attack, then it seems that needs to be nerfed, rather than Longbow autoattack needing to be boosted to 100% for Ranger.