Guild Wars 2

Salutations folks, I have observed something over the past month or so now that my ranger is my main. Every time i see a Ranger with a bow they go down super fast. regardless of the skills the use it just doesnt seem to matter.

does running the bow require you to make a super squishy build to be “viable”? Im quite interested in hearing some opinions on this because i have fought bow rangers from DR,IoJ,GoM,NSP and so on and it seems to be the same.

for a point of reference i am running my Condi-gen313 build with S/D A/T

i was thinking about trying out a bow just for fun..but id like to hear some thoughts of our base first.

Thank you in advance.

Jaxx of [GRIM]

If your target goes ‘down super fast’ they have low effective health as in low mitigation. The weapon used has stats on it and that contributes and some weapons are more defensive in nature but in general its your stats that make the mitigation. Above and beyond thakittens a function of timing dodge and utility abilities.

Now having said all that, in my opinion -random stranger opinion in the internet lol- the best survival build for this class is:

0/10/30/0/30 -you obviously can move some points around but you get my drift. Geared with a mix of cleric and soldier for power builds and its condition counter part for conditions.

Funny whenever I see an enemy Ranger who doesn’t have a bow they go down fast

Just sayin’

To answer your question, no Bow does not equate to squishy. Falling in love with your DPS tends to equate to squishy.

Simple approach I use is whats the best DPS I can get out of my High Survival setup, and rather than use my pets to set up my DPS I do the inverse. I use my bow skills to set up my Pets superior DPS.

All this to say Archer may not be ideal, but it is viable and fun.

Most of a ranger’s damage mitigation comes from the s/d and gs weapon sets because of the evades, block, and engage/disengage.

That said if one is running bows then one will lose alot of this survivability. SB is a good kiting weapon but not as good as s/d and gs. LB has practically no defense other than a knockback which is useless most of the time because of stability.

Furthermore, in order to get damage alot of bow rangers run 30/30/x/x/x which causes us to lose alot of survivability in the form of toughness, vitality, healing power. Bow rangers will also have a very tough time removing conditions, as they will probably only have 1 cleanse most of the time.

Overall an effective bow ranger will probably have to be super squishy to be viable, and this may be what you have experienced so far. We can hit pretty hard like thieves, its just that they have stealth so they can escape easily while everyone sees a glass bow ranger and laughs seeing a free kill.

Um

Signet build with Hoebrak Runes and lemongrass food with SoR for passive removal stun break makes me pretty beasty vs Conditions.

20K Hits, 2200 Tougness, 32XX Armor, 3 Vigor Sources and Energy Sigils (12-15 dodges/minute), protection on Dodge and Barkskin (kicks in at 5K hits) with 2 passive regens (600-700 healing power)

I do not require evades/Blocks from my weapons as I have enough dodging to sustain me without relying on weapons to do it, but snares, stuns and knock back on the bow allows me to keep people off me to allow my regen to sustain me.

I have been double bow from Day 1….you can say many things about my setup but having poor survival and weak to conditions are not among them.

There is a value to being able to apply and keep pressure from Range at all times.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/My-ranger-movie/first#post2012815

Maybe I’d be better in BM bunker or trapper, but I’m far from being not-viable.

Terkov.4138:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/My-ranger-movie/first#post2012815

Maybe I’d be better in BM bunker or trapper, but I’m far from being not-viable.

I know you can bring the Heat Terkov, just tired of these inaccurate blanket statements about the class….

To actually answer the post^^
The rangers you have met most likely runs berserker builds where they forsake thoughness and survival for power and crit. This meens they can kill you fast if they hit you first…but they cant take hits themselves.

There are lots of good builds for bows if you like to run with that.

Well thanks for all the replies .i was really curious about the viability of bow rangers as it seemed to me they were quite squishy.

So let me ask this. Do y’all feel a condition/regen bow build would work.or would the lack of s/d take away too much of the defensive ability?

Condition and bows don’t mix…beyond poison you don’t have any…

Valin.4527:

Condition and bows don’t mix…beyond poison you don’t have any…

SB + sigil of earth? It makes loads of bleeds.

I prefer Bows in a Direct Damage build, it can work condition with the right Sigils but it lends better to DD build.

I consider the bow to be the fallback weapon. You should swap from melee to your bow once you are taking too much damage. This let’s you continue dealing damage while regaining health. The bows themselves are not as viable as melee in wvw because the lack of AoE.

If You are going with zerg – bow with good built supporting it is viable option.
If You are going to roaming as “solo-player”…
hey where is that guy from only-bows build that made that funny vid when he was masacrating many ppl with sb/lb setup?
also good used bow have one advantage – for example when I’m taking the camp in wvw with no or nearly no help – shortbow is a good friend – well used I can dmg any npc defending the camp and take no dmg (only a little from those scouts but main dmg dealers like guard or supervisor cannot even reach me )

let me guess… that guys had a bear as their pet?

I’m that ranger on the battle field that carries Shortbow/Longbow & runs a full glass cannon build. I actually have far more survivability than if I used either a Greatsword, or Sword/dagger/torch combo.

As some have mentioned, it depends on how you intend to play. If your a solo roamer or small group, then probably your best with sword/dagger or torch, or even a GS. If you like to follow zergs, then IMO your far better with with Sb/Lb.

I’ve played every which build in WvW, and by far the most lucrative is the Sb/Lb combo, like by a long shot. Running this type of build though, you have to learn to read your enemies on when/if they rush. Done properly, you’ll rarely die, unless your running solo trying to reach your zerg.

Well, just for fun I’m going to try a sb/lb build to do some comparison. I’m pretty certain that for the skirmish grups I run my condi-gen313 build will be far superior. But bench testing is what makes the wvw world spin.

What build would y’all suggest for a roam/sm scale skirmish build based on lb-sb..?

@DeadlySynz – noone told about glass canon
guy had named that movie something like “kitten but determined” or something….
@hyjaxxx ask autor of that “kitten but determined” vids – he was somewhere here

That’s me, its not Kitten though, its a 4 letter word beginning in G and ending in P but the filter wont let it through =)

all three vids are in my Sig

Only think I can think of is how fast I eat LB Rangers and I assume other people who run heavy retaliation based builds also do as well. SB rangers also have to watch their auto attack on me because it hit fast and weak.

Hexxen.7216:

Only think I can think of is how fast I eat LB Rangers and I assume other people who run heavy retaliation based builds also do as well. SB rangers also have to watch their auto attack on me because it hit fast and weak.

I know a few people have complained about retaliation in relation to either barrage or the rapid fire. I’ve never found it to do that much damage. I have just over 16K hp, and a full barrage on 5 targets hitting at least 6-8x a piece, I maybe lose 4-5K hp if that. Not sure why people have such a problem with retaliation..

If I have three phantasms out which I usually do while attack a tower that is 4 targets that have very high toughness and very high power with a retaliation hit hitting for about 390 damage. 390 * 5 targets * 5 times per target = 9750 damage in a very short amount of time. Then there is the massive amounts of reflections I can put up as well. It isn’t the only thing that kills them but it is a major factor.

Hexxen.7216:

If I have three phantasms out which I usually do while attack a tower that is 4 targets that have very high toughness and very high power with a retaliation hit hitting for about 390 damage. 390 * 5 targets * 5 times per target = 9750 damage in a very short amount of time. Then there is the massive amounts of reflections I can put up as well. It isn’t the only thing that kills them but it is a major factor.

Barrage hits max 5 targets, so, unless you are alone, it won’t hit only you and your phtantasms (some hits will ignore them to hit others). Also, I’m not sure what’s their hp, but iirc they will die before last hits, so number will be lower. Add to it retal is nerfed on EB. I agree it’s strong and can be annoying, but it’s not like every barrage I use on enemies at gate hits me for 9k

Bow in zerg? Tbh it’s totally opposite imho. It can work in small groups/solo, but in zerg you need GS (some make it with sword) for melee charge. Bow works only for first few shots and then to kill running enemies. Or if you mean pug zergs, then ok, but there you can even run naked with brown bear…

If it’s only about the observation of “bow-rangers”, I have to admit that it’s something I also noticed. Just recently I fought a ranger with SB/GS, he kept hitting me with this legendary SB, I didn’t bother to catch him at this moment, non-crits with ~250-300 damage…My healthbar doesn’t even move with this incoming damage. Plus he immobilizied me with the krytan dog, entangled me, stunned me, but couldn’t do anything. Makes me sad somehow.
I’m sure there are good rangers out there using bows, but most of the time they aren’t a threat.
It was mentioned here several times that our damage scales really bad with “power”, maybe with bows this is even worse, don’t know…

e: just saw that there are some bow-ranger vids here, gonna watch them when I’m at home, maybe there is still hope

I’m running a traps/condition damage build with carrion (some berserker pieces in trinkets). I’m at 22k5 hp, 2300 armor. Not what you’d call squishy, that’s much more than my zerker thief.

The shortbow works very well with condition builds, it’s much better than the longbow. However, my main weapons are axe/torch and that’s what i use most of the time.
I use the shortbow on switch when everything else is on cooldown and i want to finish some fleeing guys or downed opponents but in a zerg or while following a commander i mainly stick to axe/torch (lots of AoEs and you can use axe 2 without targetting).
Not sure why people think only greatsword work in zerg rushes though, maybe they’re just obsessed by the combat log, which doesn’t show condition damage x)

He has 3 clips, this is the 3rd. He decided to play a pure Bow WvW Ranger back when the forums were filled with whine about how weak Ranger is in the game….

Fenrir.6183:

Not sure why people think only greatsword work in zerg rushes though, maybe they’re just obsessed by the combat log, which doesn’t show condition damage x)

Because it hits more targets and hits harder. Most conditions are useless in ZvZ coz of AoE removal everywhere. Outside of few specific condition bomber builds, meta is power dmg. Also, GS 1. chain gives you evade that works great in middle of enemy blob.

Grayback.7148:

If it’s only about the observation of “bow-rangers”, I have to admit that it’s something I also noticed. Just recently I fought a ranger with SB/GS, he kept hitting me with this legendary SB, I didn’t bother to catch him at this moment, non-crits with ~250-300 damage…My healthbar doesn’t even move with this incoming damage. Plus he immobilizied me with the krytan dog, entangled me, stunned me, but couldn’t do anything. Makes me sad somehow.
I’m sure there are good rangers out there using bows, but most of the time they aren’t a threat.
It was mentioned here several times that our damage scales really bad with “power”, maybe with bows this is even worse, don’t know…

e: just saw that there are some bow-ranger vids here, gonna watch them when I’m at home, maybe there is still hope

he has to be very weak ranger – When I’m on Shortbow so turning back to me is last mistake of all my enemies – in that point they are already dead – just don’t know its yet..
there are ofc some exception – for example thief that will stealth and while under that will manage to run from range of my bow – and then He can have some hope to survive
power of shortbow are amassing big numbers of bleeding stacks in short time – If You have low vitality that is very deadly – otherwise dmg from sb is rather slow

Shortbow is viable in a trapper build but i wouldnt use that for zerging.

Terkov.4138:

Hexxen.7216:

If I have three phantasms out which I usually do while attack a tower that is 4 targets that have very high toughness and very high power with a retaliation hit hitting for about 390 damage. 390 * 5 targets * 5 times per target = 9750 damage in a very short amount of time. Then there is the massive amounts of reflections I can put up as well. It isn’t the only thing that kills them but it is a major factor.

Barrage hits max 5 targets, so, unless you are alone, it won’t hit only you and your phtantasms (some hits will ignore them to hit others). Also, I’m not sure what’s their hp, but iirc they will die before last hits, so number will be lower. Add to it retal is nerfed on EB. I agree it’s strong and can be annoying, but it’s not like every barrage I use on enemies at gate hits me for 9k

My iDefender has ~9500HP and my other Phantasms have ~3,800. That on top of them having my toughness (1939) on top of the constant regen that they give each other. Yeah they will live just fine. ^^ Also when I am with a larger group of people I get out Signet of Inspiration and share retaliation with everyone around me. Yes, I have killed many many rangers like this.

Terkov.4138:

Fenrir.6183:

Not sure why people think only greatsword work in zerg rushes though, maybe they’re just obsessed by the combat log, which doesn’t show condition damage x)

Because it hits more targets and hits harder. Most conditions are useless in ZvZ coz of AoE removal everywhere. Outside of few specific condition bomber builds, meta is power dmg. Also, GS 1. chain gives you evade that works great in middle of enemy blob.

I strongly disagree. Even with condition removal (which isn’t anywhere near enough to remove all the conditions applied by 30 to 50+ people), i’m pretty sure traps do much more damage than the greatsword. Remember you’re not ONLY using traps, i’m also using my axe which can do quite some damage as well (crits for 1000+ with just 50% crit dmg).
Still, it’s without doubt better than a bow, but not the only viable option

he was talking about weapon not utilities nobody told that You cannot use traps with GS did he?
after somebody pointed me to combat log I started to watch them more carefully while in combat – sadly is – many thing are not pointed there – nor Our pet dmg/ nor condi dmg – nor even our own dmg agains for example, gate/siege/world boss

but still after this – only thing that 1hsword could have bigger overall dmg than gs is might for our pet (and maybe poison but bleeding are more violate condi in case of just dmg) – and in that case with zerging – while zerging there is extremely hard to keep pet alive so he could deal his dmg.

and that’s why I have guardian fo zerging :P – ranger in small groups/overall things like exploring world bosses etc. and guardian for zerging in wvw

These discussions would be much more constructive if this game provided accurate combat logs that display direct damage, condition damage, and some indication of various forms of control like stun, immobilize, elapsed time, etc.

Without this hard data, so many of these discussions just turn into lists of anecdotes about how I play my _ build well etc.

My experience with bows is that the damage is slow and sub par unless you go complete glass cannon, by stacking power and crit, which on a Ranger means neglecting toughness, HP, vitality and your pets via the BM trait line. This will bring your individual direct damage up somewhat, but it comes at a high cost of severely limiting how you play. To survive versus good other players you have to do a lot of kiting and be willing to break off when conditions are not perfect.

You may very well use a bow in WvW to have your way with various inexperienced new players, but eventually you will hit some that have the bows number and they will know how to close the distance, control you, and lay some serious melee damage on you before you realize what hit you.

Personally I found that once you get to know how to use them, either GS or Sword/Dagger will bring down enemies, in PVE and PVP, faster than bows. You spend far too much time for my tastes with bows, kiting and maneuvering for position.

That is not to say bows are not viable. They work quite well, but it is a very different play style and experience.

I find running either GS or Sword/Dagger, AND Axe/Torch gives you the best of both ranged and melee combat. Granted, the Axe/Torch are short range and not suitable in long distance siege, but with siege you always have the option to break off and swap to a bow of choice or simply grab a siege weapon.

For WvW roaming and running with a zerg I find the melee/short range set up to be the most flexible, and the melee side can be very successful in both 1 on 1 and large group battles.

In general PVE content is so easy, you can get by with practically any weapon set you choose, unless you fret about shaving seconds off COF speed runs, in which case you probably should just roll a Warrior or Mesmer.

I agree with some of above. Just 1 thing: “using bow” doesn’t mean I keep shooting with LB to a warrior who is in melee range already I have bow-oriented build, but I know how to use GS I have on swap and in some fights I use only it.

SB is a godly weapon and should never be underestimated. Even good players can be kited with it, perhaps not indefinately but warriors (as the prime example of a melee warrior) are really easily outplayed by a skilled SB user.