Guild Wars 2

I think the fact that this weapon is so underutilized is a tell-tale sign that it was very much overnerfed.

Perhaps people don’t remember what that means.

GS doesn’t have any damage, in Beta it was much the same except for the Auto-Attack. In Beta the GS 1 had exceptional scaling and base damage, this allowed it to crit for 5k or more making it an excellent melee dps weapon. The melee power-crit ranger was exceptional and allowed the class to stand up against other melee classes both pve dps wise and pvp wise.

The problem was that people were getting 3 shotted in sPvP, and there were a number of reasons for this. First off Crit Damage had not yet been nerfed in sPvP, second QZ like all other quickness abilities did not have a debuff associated with it, and finally the might stacks from Rampage as one had a duration that allowed you to gain an ungodly amount of might just by using the ability and letting your pet attack.

Needless to say a nerf came, however RaO was nerfed, along with sPvP crit damage. RaO has stability which used to NOT be a boon making it so you couldn’t boonstrip/corrupt/steal obviously this was nerfed along with the duration of the might stacks. For the GS they hit both the base damage of the ability AND the base damage changing the GS into the pool noodle that it is today. Had they only nerfed RaO and crit damage the GS would have been toned down enough in sPvP to no longer be a problem. However they completely gutted the weapon so that it can no longer be used in a power build.

I think that the base damage and scaling should be returned to the weapon giving rangers the option of being melee damage dealers once again.

Bring back the Melee Power Ranger!

I haven’t played a ranger during the beta. I rolled with a warrior all the time. Since i agree i would like to give some reasons:

- there should be at least two (melee and ranged) powerful physical weapons for every profession
- the greatsword with a pet should be devastating to compensate low armor

I would agree it should be set back as to what it was in beta.

I’ve always found it odd how my Greatsword damage is almost equal to my One-handed Sword damage. Melee damage is suppose to be higher than Ranged (because of the high risk involved) but it doesn’t feel that way at the moment with a Ranger’s GS.

I remember fearing GS damage in beta.

/signed

I agree with this. I want the GS to have the potential to be used as the primary raw damage weapon like it was in the beta. My dream ranger/huntsman would have a GS + dual axes. Let my dream be effective, Anet!

I use the greatsword all of the time, particularly in dub v dubs. Slightly off subject, but I also use the offhand axe all of the time. I leave DPS balancing up to ANET and top sPvP players results. Obviously, weapon choice is build dependent, but I’ve found both to do solid damage when you consider the fact that you get [Swoop] (extreme escapability / CD short enough & distance long enough such that it’s faster than running—plus it’s a leap finisher), as well as a stun and a daze. The swings do big AoE hits in a wide sweeping arc.

What more do you guys want again?

/signed never beta’d but I want my GS to kill things

raubvogel.5071:

- the greatsword with a pet should be devastating to compensate low armor

Rangers can’t equip a shield, so a greatsword or a 1h sword + off-hand weapon yields the same armor.

Right now greatsword does slightly less DPS than a 1h sword. It should be the other way around to compensate for GS locking you into 5 skills, while with 1h sword you can mix and match your off-hand weapon to suit your tastes.

I’ve been leveling a ranger from 1-40 now using GS as a main weapon, it’s been fine not too slow I thought, I turned of autoattack so it’s more involving. But then last night I thought I should unlock my shortbow skills. My jaw literally dropped as i autoattacked mobs to death so fast! The GS is crap, it hasn’t even got comparable damage to 1200 range weapons.. ridiculous.

While the greatsword does need a damage boost, the damage it had in beta was a tad overpowered. It was basically Hundred Blades on an auto-attack.

The greatsword has more uses then just dealing damage, though. Your auto-attack has an evade on it, you have Swoop as a great escape/chase/travel skill, you have Counterattack that’s both a block, a ranged cripple, and an interrupt if you block, and finally there’s Hilt Bash that interrupts and gives a 50% damage boost for your pets next attack. Much like the longbow, the greatsword is a great weapon that just needs a little damage boost.

You guys provided anecdotal evidence about GS being “weak” and I provided anecdotal evidence to the contrary. If anyone wants to make a solid case, they need to test it, record key figures of merit, and compare it to other classes. Also, weapon performance is trait/gear dependent too so you have to factor that in. I’m just chiming in again to basically say that without hard data, you’re in no position to criticize. Also, some damage comes from the pet so for any ranger damage calculation you have to include how much damage the pet is doing.

Also , terms need to be defined. What is the definition of weak weapon? Under what circumstances are other weapons better and why? Can you show this with data? Is your build up for discussion? There’s too many loose definitions and emotional based arguments being thrown around for us to come to any meaningful conclusion in this thread.

We are talking about the base damage. You may check the wiki for figures.

And the pet can’t be calculated in because it will never ever be a suitable component in regard to playing solo since the pet does what it wants to do. If i play solo i can lure 3-5 foes next to me and kill them difficult if not impossible with a pet due to the lack of control.

Therefore it’s better if we do the main damage and our pet is just supportive.

I don’t use a GS due to it’s low dmg, so yes ANet look into a fix for this.

Chopps.5047:

I use the greatsword all of the time, particularly in dub v dubs. Slightly off subject, but I also use the offhand axe all of the time. I leave DPS balancing up to ANET and top sPvP players results. Obviously, weapon choice is build dependent, but I’ve found both to do solid damage when you consider the fact that you get [Swoop] (extreme escapability / CD short enough & distance long enough such that it’s faster than running—plus it’s a leap finisher), as well as a stun and a daze. The swings do big AoE hits in a wide sweeping arc.

What more do you guys want again?

I love the GS and also my build is based on it. but a slight dmg iprove to it would be nice, dont you think so? I dont want it to deal 5k or 6k dmg on a glasscannon build, since our pets do (in theory) enough dmg to compensate the low base dmg from the GS. But, as I said, a slight dmg improve would be nice, in pvp I deal (full gc) 1.6k to 2k dmg with the auto attack on a critical (no buffs, just traits and runes). So maybe improve this to 2.5k on crit with full gc in pvp, that wouldnt be overpowered or am I wrong?

Lifeson.4352:

I’ve been leveling a ranger from 1-40 now using GS as a main weapon, it’s been fine not too slow I thought, I turned of autoattack so it’s more involving. But then last night I thought I should unlock my shortbow skills. My jaw literally dropped as i autoattacked mobs to death so fast! The GS is crap, it hasn’t even got comparable damage to 1200 range weapons.. ridiculous.

The shortbow is your premiere single-target DPS weapon. If you can get beside/behind your target to inflict bleeding, no other ranger weapon will touch its DPS against a single target (well, maybe longbow barrage if the target is stupid enough to stand in the barrage the full 5 seconds).

Against multiple targets though, even the axe will out-DPS the shortbow. The sword and greatsword are more for multiple target situations, and the other skills that come with the weapon.

It’s not enough to classify weapons on a single hierarchy of better to worse. Different weapons do better in different situations. You have to learn which weapons are a better choice in which situation.

Chopps.5047:

I use the greatsword all of the time, particularly in dub v dubs. Slightly off subject, but I also use the offhand axe all of the time. I leave DPS balancing up to ANET and top sPvP players results. Obviously, weapon choice is build dependent, but I’ve found both to do solid damage when you consider the fact that you get [Swoop] (extreme escapability / CD short enough & distance long enough such that it’s faster than running—plus it’s a leap finisher), as well as a stun and a daze. The swings do big AoE hits in a wide sweeping arc.

What more do you guys want again?

Damage. I don’t care if I can tickle my enemies in a wide arc.

To see that this weapon needs help one needs to look no further than the fact that the base tooltip damage for the greatsword Auto-Attack is a whole 1 damage higher than the base sword damage. Which means the GS has less dps than the sword as it swings slower.

Here’s another problem, in power builds every warrior melee weapon Auto-Attack deals more damage than the Ranger GS. Warrior weapons also have other options to deal damage besides the Auto-Attack, while as the ranger GS has only utility abilities and a useless bleed. The damage needs to come from the AA, but it just isn’t there. Rangers have less base armour and less health than a warrior, so there is no reason for the damage difference. If you build glass cannon you should be able to do damage, but with the greatsword you can’t.

Buffing the damage back to what it was in Beta is not a problem. I’ve already listed why it was nerfed and why it was a problem. The 25 might stacks from RaO made it overpowered, and the fact that RaO gave 30s of stability that was unable to be stripped plus the fact that you could obtain similar levels of crit damage to pve land.

All of that has been nerfed now, so the nerfing of the base damage/power scaling was uncalled for.

Honestly if you are a ranger player there is no reason to be against this. It gives a power, melee dps option with good AOE damage. All things that the Ranger is lacking and if you build for damage you should be able to do damage. Because of the nerf to RaO you won’t see the 5k crits anymore unless you have a friendly to buff you, but the current 2k of damage on a crit with a DPS build is not how it should be.

I am glad that there is support for this, but if you support this and haven’t voiced it make sure you do! Anet says they read these forums and the more people that voice their support the more attention this will be given, tell your friends!

Dantaeus Heardt.5730:

I don’t use a GS due to it’s low dmg, so yes ANet look into a fix for this.

Same. And anecdotal or emotional etc. as the arguments may be you can’t deny what you see out there, rangers using just about any other weapon the vast mjaority of the time. That has to say something.

It has good utility but that doesn’t justify making the autoattack completly worthless. I don’t want to have a weapon that I can only use to close the gap, then fail my stun because the target moves and wait for the timer to switch back to shortbow as soon as possible …

A slight buff won’t do here. They need to add atleast 50-70% of damage to the chain to make it worth using.

raubvogel.5071:

We are talking about the base damage. You may check the wiki for figures.

And the pet can’t be calculated in because it will never ever be a suitable component in regard to playing solo since the pet does what it wants to do. If i play solo i can lure 3-5 foes next to me and kill them difficult if not impossible with a pet due to the lack of control.

Therefore it’s better if we do the main damage and our pet is just supportive.

I control the pet just fine, in fact, I can target multiple enemies (kiting 3 sparks with my pet and 2 with myself in Arah path 4 simin fight is not out of the question, in fact, I’m certain that it can be done). We call this micro (1010 hours on ranger so far so I’ve had plenty of practice). Go ahead and neglect the pet; neglect it while it’s hitting you like a truck in dubs. We’ll see how much you want to ignore it then.

Usually I avoid official forums like the plague, or at best, just lurk.

However having sunk just over 280 hours into my ranger, all of that wielding a GS, I reckon I care enough about this to post.

I remember my Pow/Prec build in the betas; as others have pointed out, RaO was insanely powerful and was the primary reason for a majority of the big numbers that rangers managed to pump out. When nerfs hit, they hit hard brah.

I’ve tried many builds and gear combinations to make GS feel like it doesn’t blow, frankly, no matter how much I love the aesthetics and mechanics of the GS, part of me is aware that the weapon blows, and blows hard. The utility? Yeah, it is amazing; evade on auto, block, cripple, knockback, interrupt, daze, stun, escape and gap close. Easily the best weapon in terms of utility function.

Utility doesn’t mean much if you’re slapping your target with a wet noodle.

Somewhere down the track (~120ish hours into my ranger), I decided to level a warrior, once again, with a greatsword – hitting 80 at a breakneck speed (thank you signets), I decided to trait defensively for a change (tweaked the ‘Sonic Boon’ build a little). Even focused on defense and utility, with defensive gear, my warrior managed to pump out more damage, consistently, WHILE supporting my team mates with shouts and condition-removal than my full ’zerker ranger. P/V/T gear ranger? Warrior still out damaged, out-utilityed and out-meetshieleded my ranger.

I do keep my ranger as my main – I love my pet, I love the mechanics and the aesthetics. However all this time, part of me always knows that I could, and should be doing so much more

I am largely speaking of PvE content here; simply because the balance would be easier that sPvP (I say this, having the Champion Hunter title).

To sum up the above ramble-y mess. The greatsword is an amazing weapon that received an unreasonable and overzealous nerf. Will I keep using my GS regardless? Absolutely. Will it continue being a swiss-army knife noodle? For awhile.

Quick edit:
Having re-read the thread, I reckon I should mention pets. The primary issue I see with saying “don’t worry, you swing your noodle around, your pet will do hardcore deeps” is the volatile nature of AI controlled allies. I digress. Pets affect all rangers; we all have them. Pets have little to do with the issue of the Greatnoodle.

Chopps.5047:

raubvogel.5071:

We are talking about the base damage. You may check the wiki for figures.

And the pet can’t be calculated in because it will never ever be a suitable component in regard to playing solo since the pet does what it wants to do. If i play solo i can lure 3-5 foes next to me and kill them difficult if not impossible with a pet due to the lack of control.

Therefore it’s better if we do the main damage and our pet is just supportive.

I control the pet just fine, in fact, I can target multiple enemies (kiting 3 sparks with my pet and 2 with myself in Arah path 4 simin fight is not out of the question, in fact, I’m certain that it can be done). We call this micro (1010 hours on ranger so far so I’ve had plenty of practice). Go ahead and neglect the pet; neglect it while it’s hitting you like a truck in dubs. We’ll see how much you want to ignore it then.

Sorry but you disqualified yourself completly with the WvW statement. You need to be really bad at your class to get hit by the pet for anything more than 1-2 attacks. I have yet to see the day when my pet actually hits a decent thief or dagger ele and at no point I would call this hitting like a truck.
The pet isn’t useless and I would never neglect it because it applies pressure and may force them to use dodges/blocks/movement skills sometimes but pet dealing damage? You need to hit some very lucky CC at the right time of its animations to make that happen.

And the worst part it that you have zero reliability. Sometimes you just NEED those hits but exactly that is the time it suddenly hits air/stops/switches direction and so on. This is why the current concept of 30%+ of our strength being attributed to the pet is a bad one.

Dojo.1867:

Chopps.5047:

raubvogel.5071:

We are talking about the base damage. You may check the wiki for figures.

And the pet can’t be calculated in because it will never ever be a suitable component in regard to playing solo since the pet does what it wants to do. If i play solo i can lure 3-5 foes next to me and kill them difficult if not impossible with a pet due to the lack of control.

Therefore it’s better if we do the main damage and our pet is just supportive.

I control the pet just fine, in fact, I can target multiple enemies (kiting 3 sparks with my pet and 2 with myself in Arah path 4 simin fight is not out of the question, in fact, I’m certain that it can be done). We call this micro (1010 hours on ranger so far so I’ve had plenty of practice). Go ahead and neglect the pet; neglect it while it’s hitting you like a truck in dubs. We’ll see how much you want to ignore it then.

Sorry but you disqualified yourself completly with the WvW statement. You need to be really bad at your class to get hit by the pet for anything more than 1-2 attacks. I have yet to see the day when my pet actually hits a decent thief or dagger ele and at no point I would call this hitting like a truck.
The pet isn’t useless and I would never neglect it because it applies pressure and may force them to use dodges/blocks/movement skills sometimes but pet dealing damage? You need to hit some very lucky CC at the right time of its animations to make that happen.

And the worst part it that you have zero reliability. Sometimes you just NEED those hits but exactly that is the time it suddenly hits air/stops/switches direction and so on. This is why the current concept of 30%+ of our strength being attributed to the pet is a bad one.

Disqualified myself? That’s absurd. We’re equally qualified to say things but you’re not qualified to choose your own reality. My argument is just as good as yours: it’s all right here in the forum. All I can offer are arguments based on data I’ve obtained in the past.

Pet isn’t hitting the target enough?

1) Then use 30% pet run speed trait or cripple your foe more.

2) Maybe you aren’t running enough cripples. Rangers have a passive skill that cripples enemies when below 25% health on a 15 second cooldown.

3) You could have run axe and thrown the chilly axe. You could have run Runes of Grenth to get more chills on the enemy.

4)You could have leaped with ice leopard to chill. You could have run a pet that cripples.

5) We have a trait that makes hounds automatically cripple on the pet utility skill.

6) The shortbow has cripples.

7) The greatsword has a gigantic leap plus a stun where you throw it.

8) The longbow has the potential to shoot ~1500 yards.

9) Signet of the Hunt

10) About face + lightning reflexes

11) about face + hornet’s sting + about face + monarch’s leap

12) Entangle

13) warhorn for speed and might and fury

All I’m saying is there’s a multitude of methods to slow someone down and/or reach them from a distance. Everyone has trouble hitting a moving target, pets included—so cope it with the way everyone else does: by either moving faster than your target or slowing it down more than you.

Disqualified myself? Come on, that’s a joke! Don’t joke with your play either. Use those tips, practice, and come back here and talk about how well it works.

Alright this is the first time I’ve bothered to post here but I can’t help but speak up on this topic. The rangers greatsword might as well not exist. I like greatswords but now that my rangers nearly 80 I can’t keep lying to myself anymore. I use a hawk and an eagle as my pets because they attack fast and hit hard but when I noticed that my pets are criting for more than double my greatswords crit I just lost faith in the weapon completely. My average crit with my greatsword at level 72 is around 600 thats it thats all, but I’ve seen my birds on the other hand crit for as much as 1500-1600. These numbers should be reversed I should not be forced to pray that my mindless AI companion will deem me worthy of some damage while I stand there tickling my opponent with my feather duster disguised as a weapon.

Chopps.5047:

You guys provided anecdotal evidence about GS being “weak” and I provided anecdotal evidence to the contrary. If anyone wants to make a solid case, they need to test it, record key figures of merit, and compare it to other classes. Also, weapon performance is trait/gear dependent too so you have to factor that in. I’m just chiming in again to basically say that without hard data, you’re in no position to criticize. Also, some damage comes from the pet so for any ranger damage calculation you have to include how much damage the pet is doing.

Also , terms need to be defined. What is the definition of weak weapon? Under what circumstances are other weapons better and why? Can you show this with data? Is your build up for discussion? There’s too many loose definitions and emotional based arguments being thrown around for us to come to any meaningful conclusion in this thread.

Oh holy kittens, spoken like a true scientist. Chopps, have I told you how much I love you?

@Chopps.5047

Sure you can slow a foe but the thing I wanted to point out is that you can not position your pet as good as your own charackter.

If you lure 3 foes with a warrior or another melee even ranger you can position yourself so you hit all 3 targets but your pet hits maybe 1 or 2 or even 3. So if i’m in melee i can optimize my position and i don’t have to count on the luck that my pet positions intelligent.

Another point regarding AI/positioning. Lets say you face 2 enemys and your pet runs to the one thats far away from the other foe you are attacking. So you have to order it back (F1 if not done at the start of the fight) or follow your animal. Thats bad positioning again due to the control mechanism. It should attack what i attack. It should ignore if i ignore. Okay that would be a genius AI. And yes I know that there is a F1 key. And F3 and everything. Above all that it doesn’t do any damage in this case since it is running. Maybe its absorbing the damage, maybe it’s luring other enemys that you would not lure since you can’t take them all.

Melee means high risk therefore you should deal highest damage.

raubvogel.5071:

@Chopps.5047

Sure you can slow a foe but the thing I wanted to point out is that you can not position your pet as good as your own charackter.

If you lure 3 foes with a warrior or another melee even ranger you can position yourself so you hit all 3 targets but your pet hits maybe 1 or 2 or even 3. So if i’m in melee i can optimize my position and i don’t have to count on the luck that my pet positions intelligent.

Another point is the AI. Lets say you face 2 enemys and your pet runs to the one thats far away from the other foe you are attack. So you have to order it back (F1 if not done at the start of the fight) or follow your animal. Thats bad positioning again due to the control mechanism. It should attack what i attack. It should ignore if i ignore. Okay that would be a genius AI. And yes I know that there is a F1 key. And F3 and everything. Above all that it doesn’t do any damage in this case since it is running. Maybe its absorbing the damage, maybe it’s luring other enemys that you would not lure since you can’t take them all.

>>>If you lure 3 foes with a warrior or another melee even ranger you can position yourself so you hit all 3 targets but your pet hits maybe 1 or 2 or even 3. So if i’m in melee i can optimize my position and i don’t have to count on the luck that my pet positions intelligent.

Nah, use any one of our combo fields or if you don’t want to do that, use the bouncing axe autoattack; if you don’t want to do that, use the greatsword. In fact, I argue a ranger is better in this situation because you can command your pet to attack one enemy while you AoE several others. I’m good enough at pet micro such that I can precisely target anything on my screen and continually order my pet to attack it and come back or switch targets. Meanwhile I’m rolling with my sword from target to target and leaping from target to target. As soon as one target dies, I command my pet to attack something else.

I always run my pet on passive mode yet it is always attacking things—and yet with the control such that it attacks only when I want to. With practice, great things can be done. This isn’t a warrior. This is ranger. You aren’t just going to hit adrenaline, yell “hurah” and do a bunch of damage. Basically, you need micro for this profession.

>>>Another point is the AI. Lets say you face 2 enemys and your pet runs to the one thats far away from the other foe you are attack. So you have to order it back (F1 if not done at the start of the fight) or follow your animal. Thats bad positioning again due to the control mechanism. It should attack what i attack. It should ignore if i ignore.

My pet is always on passive. When I want to kite, it kites. When I want to attack, I’m constantly ordering it to attack, come back to avoid AoE, attack, attack something else, attack a target different from me, use utility, etc, all while moving myself. I just don’t have this problem. It takes practice, it really does.

Ranger greatsword auto attack chain does less damage by a significant amount than Warrior’s, at a slightly slower attack rate (I would accept lessened damage because of the built in evade, but it’s been rolled back a bit too far). Between my Ranger and my Warrior, both built to as much perceivable personal damage as I can, the Warrior is twice as strong, hit for hit, without counting in Hundred Blades.

The auto attack chain does less damage than Guardian greatsword chain as well, although not as ginormous a gap as between Ranger and Warrior. Guardian’s chain (again, built for damage as best as possible) is about 1.5x as strong, perhaps a smidge more for nearly the same attack rate. Guardian greatsword damage is more what I’d perceive Ranger’s should be.

Even a Mesmer’s greatsword (which is a ranged weapon, benefiting from further distance like ranger long bow) does more damage from auto attack, at higher rate of fire (unless the Mesmer was standing point blank, in which case you should be picking a different Mesmer weapon).

tasbury.3674:

Perhaps people don’t remember what that means.

GS doesn’t have any damage, in Beta it was much the same except for the Auto-Attack. In Beta the GS 1 had exceptional scaling and base damage, this allowed it to crit for 5k or more making it an excellent melee dps weapon. The melee power-crit ranger was exceptional and allowed the class to stand up against other melee classes both pve dps wise and pvp wise.

The problem was that people were getting 3 shotted in sPvP, and there were a number of reasons for this. First off Crit Damage had not yet been nerfed in sPvP, second QZ like all other quickness abilities did not have a debuff associated with it, and finally the might stacks from Rampage as one had a duration that allowed you to gain an ungodly amount of might just by using the ability and letting your pet attack.

Needless to say a nerf came, however RaO was nerfed, along with sPvP crit damage. RaO has stability which used to NOT be a boon making it so you couldn’t boonstrip/corrupt/steal obviously this was nerfed along with the duration of the might stacks. For the GS they hit both the base damage of the ability AND the base damage changing the GS into the pool noodle that it is today. Had they only nerfed RaO and crit damage the GS would have been toned down enough in sPvP to no longer be a problem. However they completely gutted the weapon so that it can no longer be used in a power build.

I think that the base damage and scaling should be returned to the weapon giving rangers the option of being melee damage dealers once again.

Bring back the Melee Power Ranger!

sounds like thieves (and warriors a little) minus the stealth. but i guess that’s OP for a ranger but not an invisible character.

Ive been using the gimped gs for months. In full berserker gear it’s kinda decent in pve but in pvp it’s nothing more than a utility/mobility weapon. Either boost the base damage of 1 and 2 or add a bleed on every first attack of 1. This would make it an interesting condition hybrid weapon.

Gs is very viable in spvp bunker builds but is very limiting in wvw and pve.

nerva.7940:

Ive been using the gimped gs for months. In full berserker gear it’s kinda decent in pve but in pvp it’s nothing more than a utility/mobility weapon. Either boost the base damage of 1 and 2 or add a bleed on every first attack of 1. This would make it an interesting condition hybrid weapon.

Gs is very viable in spvp bunker builds but is very limiting in wvw and pve.

Even I’ll agree the greatsword needs to be restored to its former glory, but I still find plenty of viable uses for it, even in dungeons. It’s great for attacking large numbers of enemies while keeping up your health. One example would be AC path 1, where you have to take out graveling mounds. The GS works wonders at keeping the graveling hatchlings from escaping your reach, while still whittling down the mounds.

As I said it’s decent in pve with zerker gear.

I run bezerker GS in paids…. A little more base dmg like 100 more point of dmg would make it a lot more worthwile over the 1 handed sword and warhorn combo. I am losing swiftness, fury, and might by using GS, It might as well hit a little harder.

Lifeson.4352:

I’ve been leveling a ranger from 1-40 now using GS as a main weapon, it’s been fine not too slow I thought, I turned of autoattack so it’s more involving. But then last night I thought I should unlock my shortbow skills. My jaw literally dropped as i autoattacked mobs to death so fast! The GS is crap, it hasn’t even got comparable damage to 1200 range weapons.. ridiculous.

Welcome to GW2 Ranger 2013

But yea it was the same for me actually. My first ranger, I really enjoyed using GS but the damage just isn’t justifiable. If i’m wrong then i’d gladly like to hear the explanation from Anet, but until then GS rightfully should get another increase in damage. And not just a slight increase

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

nerva.7940:

Ive been using the gimped gs for months. In full berserker gear it’s kinda decent in pve but in pvp it’s nothing more than a utility/mobility weapon. Either boost the base damage of 1 and 2 or add a bleed on every first attack of 1. This would make it an interesting condition hybrid weapon.

Gs is very viable in spvp bunker builds but is very limiting in wvw and pve.

Even I’ll agree the greatsword needs to be restored to its former glory, but I still find plenty of viable uses for it, even in dungeons. It’s great for attacking large numbers of enemies while keeping up your health. One example would be AC path 1, where you have to take out graveling mounds. The GS works wonders at keeping the graveling hatchlings from escaping your reach, while still whittling down the mounds.

Fine point but that is taken into consideration whether GS was reverted back to its good damage or not. Yes the GS general purpose for us is to attack multiple mobs while keeping health at a reasonable amount, but the damage (currently) is still not at an ideal place. I can’t see how Anet would think otherwise.

I’m not one of those who wants everything for the Ranger to be OP, but i’m just trying to make a case that when you evaluate the Ranger’s use of the GS, then you can see why there’d need to be an increase in damage.

1. Ranger has medium armor
2. Ranger’s skills for Greatsword aren’t high dps skills
3. Ranger’s pet cannot be used as an excuse for why the GS damage should not be increase.

I use point number 3 only because it would be a point brought up and it’s truly a fallacy. Our pets are alright at best, but not good. There’s still work to be done and if the pets’ damage are increase then fine, but that is not the case.

Either increase damage on our weapons or improve our traits and pets for more viable builds and versatility. It has to be one of the two and i’d prefer the former

I have tried GS but it lacks damage compared to one-handed sword, and one-handed sword also has movement skill and an evade, plus whatever I bring on the second weapon. There is really little reason to use it apart from aesthetics.

I think increasing the damage and making maul into a burst skill would make it shine.

Another thing I find, and this is common to a degree among all ranger weapons, is that they lack synergy with each other.

Take the guardian GS. It has good utility and damage. You can binding blades, symbol of wrath, and whirling wrath (no combo like this on ranger weapons) then switch to hammer and use various skills to take the combo further. Same with warrior.

For example its not like you can take great advantage of the GS stun by following up with some devistating burst ability. The best ranger can do is switch to sword, quickness, and auto-attack.

Ranger damage is so tied to auto-attack and its pet. Only LB has some interesting CD “burst” (not even sure if it qualifies as burst), but that weapon also needs a bit of a damage buff imo.

So I think it is like tasbury said- at one time ranger GS got a lot of synergy from other aspects of the game and skills that combined to make it really strong, but nerfing all the things that made it OP has had a compounded effect and now rangers have a greatnoodle instead of a greatsword.

raubvogel.5071:

Another point regarding AI/positioning. Lets say you face 2 enemys and your pet runs to the one thats far away from the other foe you are attacking. So you have to order it back (F1 if not done at the start of the fight) or follow your animal. Thats bad positioning again due to the control mechanism. It should attack what i attack. It should ignore if i ignore.

That’s not how it works, and it’s not how it should work. Having the pet attack only what you attack is terribly limiting.

How it currently works: The pet attacks your current target if you give it the attack command (or hit the #1 skill once). If you switch targets, you have to hit #1 again to start attacking. This forces the pet to change to your new target even if you don’t want it to. I’ve only been able to get around this horrible limitation by equipping an AOE weapon like a greatsword or sword, and keeping my target locked on what I want the pet attacking. I then move around and hit #1 to swing my sword manually to damage other mobs, never targeting them directly. It’s clumsy and horribly limiting, but it lets me do things like have my pet take down a flame turret while I help kill mobs my party is fighting. Note that this doesn’t work at all with a bow because bows always fire at your current target.

How it should work: You target a mob and hit F1. Your pet attacks that target and keeps attacking that target. You are free to change targets and attack other things. The pet will stay on its initial target until one of two things happens. You hit F1 with a different target selected, in which case the pet will change targets. Or the pet’s current target dies, in which case the pet will automatically switch to attacking your current target. 1 is your attack. F1 is the pet’s attack. The only people who should be happy with the way they’re currently linked together are lazy folks who can’t be bothered to hit F1 every time they want the pet attacking a different target.

Expansive.3716:

3. Ranger’s pet cannot be used as an excuse for why the GS damage should not be increase.

I use point number 3 only because it would be a point brought up and it’s truly a fallacy. Our pets are alright at best, but not good. There’s still work to be done and if the pets’ damage are increase then fine, but that is not the case.

As it currently stands, roughly half the ranger’s damage comes from the pet. So having a GS which works as well as warrior GS but adding a pet would be overpowered. I’ve been racking my head thinking how this could be mitigated but I’m drawing a blank. The only thing I can think of is to make the autoattack as good as a warrior’s autoattack, but to make the 2-5 skills less powerful/useful to compensate for having pet damage. But right now the main reason to use GS is because of the 2-5 skills, and nerfing them would generate a tremendous outcry among ranger players (myself included).

(I agree the pet damage is often lacking. They really need to work on that if they want to keep ranger weapon damaged gimped. Pets need agony resistance, have to be able to dodge/survive AOEs, etc.)

Maul needs to be a blast Finisher.

It needs another condition added to it to make it viable for Condition builds, that one bleed simpy is blah.

Xsorus.2507:

Maul needs to be a blast Finisher.

It needs another condition added to it to make it viable for Condition builds, that one bleed simpy is blah.

I like this idea. Maul always feels like it should be a Blast finisher; It would also open up a World of more possibilities. I mean, you are smashing a giant bear on their face. (Guardian #2 on Hammer is a “soft leap” and Blast finisher on a 5 sec CD).

In addition, as a second condition, I could totally see Weakness being added somewhere on the Greatsword (maybe on the auto attack for a cleave 1-2s Weakness?)

To me, that would make the Greatsword feel more “complete” if they didn’t want it to be a “DPS” weapon.

I could see a very fun and viable Greatsword + Spirit “support/tank” build if Spirit’s had more survivability. Gah! Now I want this. :[

Solandri.9640:

Expansive.3716:

3. Ranger’s pet cannot be used as an excuse for why the GS damage should not be increase.

I use point number 3 only because it would be a point brought up and it’s truly a fallacy. Our pets are alright at best, but not good. There’s still work to be done and if the pets’ damage are increase then fine, but that is not the case.

As it currently stands, roughly half the ranger’s damage comes from the pet. So having a GS which works as well as warrior GS but adding a pet would be overpowered. I’ve been racking my head thinking how this could be mitigated but I’m drawing a blank. The only thing I can think of is to make the autoattack as good as a warrior’s autoattack, but to make the 2-5 skills less powerful/useful to compensate for having pet damage. But right now the main reason to use GS is because of the 2-5 skills, and nerfing them would generate a tremendous outcry among ranger players (myself included).

(I agree the pet damage is often lacking. They really need to work on that if they want to keep ranger weapon damaged gimped. Pets need agony resistance, have to be able to dodge/survive AOEs, etc.)

Well that’s the crux of the whole issue really. I’m not asking for the damage to be at the level of a warrior, but rather to have some type of compensation for the lack of damage in the current state of GS or the current state of our pets.

Our pets do not hit targets in an efficient manner and the hit rate in general is not in a good place. I’d rather Anet not so much focus on improving the pets’ hit rate and just give an increase to their damage. So that way when they do hit, it will make up for the times that they often aren’t able to attack targets.

Either do that, or improve the damage of the Ranger. And honestly, as often as the pet dies, i’d rather have the Ranger get the damage increase on the weapon. And playing devil’s advocate, people will say that you’d need to learn to keep your pet alive. Believe me, I do that, but the topic of discussion goes beyond keeping your pet alive.

Pets are not a reason for the damage to be wimpy, they are a class mechanic as such they should not have a bearing on Auto-Attack Damage.

As I mentioned before the damage is below the warrior’s auto-attack, this should not be the case because they have other abilities that do damage besides their auto-attack. In many cases this is THEIR class mechanic (kill shot, eviscerate).

The thread has been quite de-railed let me repeat, pets are not an excuse for GS damage being so low. They are a class mechanic, and they have their own issues associated with them. Do pets excuse the fact that GS damage is the same as 1h Sword damage? Should SB be nerfed because our pets can do damage? Additionally, consider that the sword has a leap associated with its auto-attack, AND allows for an offhand to be equipped making it much more flexible than the GS.

I’m not asking for Rangers to become god-mode here, I just want them to have a competitive melee-dps option. Wouldn’t you guys like to see more people asking for Rangers as a melee dps in their groups?

Solandri.9640:

As it currently stands, roughly half the ranger’s damage comes from the pet. So having a GS which works as well as warrior GS but adding a pet would be overpowered. I’ve been racking my head thinking how this could be mitigated but I’m drawing a blank. The only thing I can think of is to make the autoattack as good as a warrior’s autoattack, but to make the 2-5 skills less powerful/useful to compensate for having pet damage. But right now the main reason to use GS is because of the 2-5 skills, and nerfing them would generate a tremendous outcry among ranger players (myself included).

Simple, provide a trait that grants a damage buff upon pet stowage. Problem solved for WvW.

Maul being blast finisher would be awesome.

The other thing people need to keep in mind is that pets are not a factor when discussing inter-ranger weapons and their respective damage.

The claim “ranger’s pets do our damage” doesn’t hold water when comparing any of the ranger’s weapons to one another; both due to our pets being a volatile externality, as well as the fact that they are a ‘constant’ (using the term loosely) – that is, your pet is out regardless of what weapon you are using (y’know, If if didn’t die in AoE or something) – it does not negate the dismal damage of the greatsword.

If anything, mentioning pets should be a moot point.

On a side/related note – I’ve spent all day today tinkering around with my own and my missus’ ranger (spvp, dungeons and events, mostly); seemed regardless of what combination of traits, gear, pets or builds that the greatsword was lackluster regardless of the roll I tried to fill with it. Even in terms of the apparent defensive capabilities, I found that a x/x/30/30/x S/D ranger felt a lot more defensive, while managing to keep the dps similar or higher (the evades on Hornet Sting (w/ cripple!), Serpent’s Strike (with poison!) and Stalker’s Strike (more poison!), especially when traited). Though that does not mean that I won’t continue to use the greatsword.

However changing Maul to a blast finisher would be more than welcome – it wouldn’t fix all the problems, but the utility function? yespls.

Nurse.1085:

Xsorus.2507:

Maul needs to be a blast Finisher.

It needs another condition added to it to make it viable for Condition builds, that one bleed simpy is blah.

I like this idea. Maul always feels like it should be a Blast finisher; It would also open up a World of more possibilities. I mean, you are smashing a giant bear on their face. (Guardian #2 on Hammer is a “soft leap” and Blast finisher on a 5 sec CD).

In addition, as a second condition, I could totally see Weakness being added somewhere on the Greatsword (maybe on the auto attack for a cleave 1-2s Weakness?)

To me, that would make the Greatsword feel more “complete” if they didn’t want it to be a “DPS” weapon.

I could see a very fun and viable Greatsword + Spirit “support/tank” build if Spirit’s had more survivability. Gah! Now I want this. :[

Yea, Weakness would probably be best to have somewhere in the line…either on the Charge or the Auto attack.

and Maul of course being Blast Finisher..that’d shore up the weapon pretty good and make it viable for Conditions/Power users Maul Being a Blast Finisher would actually make the weapon instantly one of the weapons used in Trap Based Builds I imagine.

Expansive.3716:

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

nerva.7940:

Ive been using the gimped gs for months. In full berserker gear it’s kinda decent in pve but in pvp it’s nothing more than a utility/mobility weapon. Either boost the base damage of 1 and 2 or add a bleed on every first attack of 1. This would make it an interesting condition hybrid weapon.

Gs is very viable in spvp bunker builds but is very limiting in wvw and pve.

Even I’ll agree the greatsword needs to be restored to its former glory, but I still find plenty of viable uses for it, even in dungeons. It’s great for attacking large numbers of enemies while keeping up your health. One example would be AC path 1, where you have to take out graveling mounds. The GS works wonders at keeping the graveling hatchlings from escaping your reach, while still whittling down the mounds.

Fine point but that is taken into consideration whether GS was reverted back to its good damage or not. Yes the GS general purpose for us is to attack multiple mobs while keeping health at a reasonable amount, but the damage (currently) is still not at an ideal place. I can’t see how Anet would think otherwise.

I’m not one of those who wants everything for the Ranger to be OP, but i’m just trying to make a case that when you evaluate the Ranger’s use of the GS, then you can see why there’d need to be an increase in damage.

1. Ranger has medium armor
2. Ranger’s skills for Greatsword aren’t high dps skills
3. Ranger’s pet cannot be used as an excuse for why the GS damage should not be increase.

I use point number 3 only because it would be a point brought up and it’s truly a fallacy. Our pets are alright at best, but not good. There’s still work to be done and if the pets’ damage are increase then fine, but that is not the case.

Either increase damage on our weapons or improve our traits and pets for more viable builds and versatility. It has to be one of the two and i’d prefer the former

Out of all your points, I agree with 1 the most. 2 could actually offer a solution, maybe just vastly increase the damage of certain skills (maul again?) But as it stands, the fact that a ranger is going into a fight with less armor than a warrior or guardian should be a reason to make the Greatsword do more damage.

Would you guys be willing to trade away the ‘evade’ on autoattack in exchange for more damage?

I know I would.

Nurse.1085:

I’ve always found it odd how my Greatsword damage is almost equal to my One-handed Sword damage. Melee damage is suppose to be higher than Ranged (because of the high risk involved) but it doesn’t feel that way at the moment with a Ranger’s GS.

I remember fearing GS damage in beta.

Yep me too, I’ve been playing 1 hand sword and war horn, then I wanted to give a try to the GS, and I see the dmg its almost the same than the 1h sword, they should improve the damage, I feel sad when I see my wife’s tanky guardian build can critic for 3k and I’m happy with I critic for 1.5k -.-

Miguel.2653:

Yep me too, I’ve been playing 1 hand sword and war horn, then I wanted to give a try to the GS, and I see the dmg its almost the same than the 1h sword, they should improve the damage

The dual wield mechanism in this game isn’t like in other RPGs. When you dual wield weapons in this game, your damage doesn’t go up. Autoattacking with just 1h sword equipped will do the same damage as autoattacking with sword + dagger equipped (aside from stat bonuses). All the second weapon gets you is your choice of the #4 and #5 skills. It’s not like you’re attacking with both weapons at the same time. All you’re doing is splitting up the same number of attack opportunities between the two weapons.

So it’s not a case where the GS needs to do more damage than the 1h sword like in other games. From a balance perspective, they should do about the same damage. GS maybe a little bit more because it locks you into 5 skills (with 1h sword, you have three choices for your #4 and #5 skills). i.e. What you lose in flexibility, you gain in damage.

I’d rather see the Greatsword reworked a bit. Maul just sticks out as a boring, generic skill that doesn’t really add much to the set and none of the skills particularly synergize in more than an arbitrary way.