Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone,

in this thread I want to discuss and rework the ranger short bow skills. I know there’re a lot of threads about this topic already but most of them are outdated. Since Anet is currently trying to balance the game again (after introducing the elite specializations) this is probably the best time to give them feedback and hope for improvements.

First of all I really like the short bow for ranger. It offers offense, defense and utility in one (!) weapon set. Mainly the low damage makes it a bad choice.

So what should be changed? Let’s check the wiki first:

“Quick skirmishing weapon relying on movement, positioning, and conditions for quick kills.”

• Movement
  Evades, swiftness, etc.
• Positioning
  Lower damage and less utility if you don’t position yourself properly. Higher if you do.
• Conditions
  Main damage sources are conditions, direct damage is only a secondary option (condi weapon, hybrid possible).

So what does this mean for the skills?

Crossfire
Fire an arrow. Bleed your target if you hit them from behind or from the side.

Similar skill: Stone Shards
Stone Shards offers exactly the same except for higher, unconditional damage. This means we need to increase the auto attack damage while keeping the positioning component.

-> Fire an arrow. Bleed your target. Inflict additional bleeding if you hit them from behind or from the side. 3 sec bleeding + 3 sec bleeding if you hit them from behind or from the side.

Poison Volley
Fire a spread of five poison arrows.

Similar skill: Splitblade
Same skill. One deals poison damage, the other bleeding. Poison Volleys CD is much higher though (9 sec < 6 sec). Since it’s the only other main damage source of this weapon the CD needs to be lower. This increases the combo potential with Poison Master (which nobody uses atm) and poison debuff uptime for extra utility.

-> Lower CD to 6 sec.

Quick Shot
Fire a quick shot in an evasive retreat. Gain swiftness if the shot hits. This can be used while retreating.

Similar skill: Disabling Shot
Same skill. One offers swiftness, the other cripple. Quick Shot has a lower power coefficient though which means less hybrid potential.

-> 0.4 coefficient increased to 0.5.

Crippling Shot
Fire an arrow that cripples your target. Your pet’s next three attacks inflict bleeding.

Similar skill: Aimed Shot
Crippling Shot offers less cripple (3 sec < 5 sec) on a higher CD (12 sec < 10 sec) and lower range (900 < 1200). The only advantage is “Blood Thirst”. The goal is to improve the utility without increasing the damage.

-> 3 sec cripple increased to 6 sec (same uptime as Aimed Shot).

Concussion Shot
Daze your foe with an arrow. Stun them if you hit from behind or from the side.

Similar skill: Headshot
Concussion Shot offers higher damage, a longer daze and a conditional stun. On the other hand it has a very high CD (25 sec). This means it can’t be spammed (higher skill requirement) and also has a lower combo potential with traits like “Ancient Seeds” or “Moment of Clarity”.

-> Lower CD to 20 sec.

Let me know what you think about these changes. Please keep the discussion civilized for the best results. Also consider creating similar, updated threads for the other weapons and utility skills since I don’t have the time for all of them.Thanks.

Nobody interested in giving some feedback? Guess the thread can be closed then.

I agree this would be reasonable changes, but in your version of crossfire I’d bump up bleeds to 4 sec. And it will be great to see Torment from pet attacks after Quick Shot. (+QS must give swiftness not only to you but to your pet too)

Blackhat, Rangers in general are jaded due to lack of developer interest in the class. Shortbow in particular has had many threads suggesting changes/fixes, and these have been discussed at length, but nothing has changed. I think we’re all a bit exhausted at this point.

Back to your suggestions.

It might be best to just nix the positional requirements of Crossfire, IMO, considering how buggy the detection is at the moment. Increasing the attack speed to pre-nerf levels is a frequently requested change. Decrease the base power damage or coefficients if need be, but have guaranteed application of short-term bleeds and a slightly faster attack speed.

Poison Volley is at odds with maintaining range in a fight. It is also at odds with the single-target nature of Ranger Shortbow. Decreasing the CD and increasing the poison duration are good ideas, but increase the cast time slightly and move all the poison application to a single arrow.

Quick shot is underwhelming as a method of escape. Rather than seeing its power coefficient increased, I would rather see a) condition application, such as Torment and/or b) short-duration superspeed rather than swiftness—which Ranger already has very good access to. Chances are, your opponent has both a gap closer and swiftness, making the evade+swiftness combination less than useful for actual retreat.

Crippling Shot should absolutely have a longer Cripple duration, especially considering the surplus of abilities that reduce the duration of movement-impeding conditions. I would also rather see the bleeding damage moved to the Ranger’s attack, since pets have a different stat set than the Ranger and often do not hit reliably. Give the pet something else, such as Swiftness (I would suggest Fury, but I think that’s still bugged).

The lower CD on Concussion Shot seems fair and in line with other classes’ abilities.

In my opinion the main problem of the shortbow is the fact that its damage is too low. It is considered to be a condi weapon, but in just a regular 1v1 you are almost always facing the opponent, so the bleeds from the autoattack are often not applied. I would rather see that the shortbow #1 skill becomes a chain attack, in which for example the first attack does not inflict bleeding and the second attack does.

skill #2 is fine I think, although the poison duration can be increased a little.

skill #3 is meh at the moment. The evade is nice, but your arrow has to hit, otherwise it wont apply swiftness. Maybe this requirement should be removed, so that the arrow will apply swiftness no matter if it hits. A longer CD or a shorter swiftness duration in exchange would be OK I guess.

skill #4, indeed as suggested above, the next ranger attacks should inflict the bleeding and not the pets attacks. This is way more reliable.

skill #5, a small reduction of the CD would be nice yes.

Although I agree that the shortbow is not in a good position at the moment, I made a build (PvP) with it in which it seems to be quite useful. Anyone can send me a letter in-game if you wanna know more about that.

bump. Irenio can you look into the shortbow?

Allow crossfire to shoot 3 arrows per second instead of almost 2, and I would start using the weapon again. Oh, and give back 1200 range please.

(Skill #3 should grant superspeed instead of swiftness.)

>Crossfire
Needs to be sped up a little or apply bleeding on frontal shots (with additional if flanking)

>Poison Volley
Should be something like Rapid Fire imo. 5 straight piercing shots that can help stack poison against one target and any additional ones behind them.

>Quickshot
I like the idea of torment/super speed on use. Another alternative would be +50% maximum endurance recovery.

>Crippling shot
Just needs a longer duration.

>Concussion shot
A second or two shorter in terms of CD.

Shortbow doesnt really need to much work other than modifying how #1 applies bleed, you have pets to assist you, ex: Smokescale has a 0.25 sec AA that applies bleed, a knockdown, a high burst attack, and a smokefield. Yes you can make the argument that 3 out of 4 of the pets abilities are AI controlled but they are none the less 4 abilities available to you without weapon/kit/transformation/attuement swapping or clone building and shattering. Thus meaning that at anygiven time you technically have 3 more abilities active over all the other professions.

Jasper Defthand.3018:

Shortbow doesnt really need to much work other than modifying how #1 applies bleed, you have pets to assist you, ex: Smokescale has a 0.25 sec AA that applies bleed, a knockdown, a high burst attack, and a smokefield. Yes you can make the argument that 3 out of 4 of the pets abilities are AI controlled but they are none the less 4 abilities available to you without weapon/kit/transformation/attuement swapping or clone building and shattering. Thus meaning that at anygiven time you technically have 3 more abilities active over all the other professions.

Yeah, assuming a pet doesn’t have issues tracking, keeping up with a target or dealing with terrain/obstruction differences. Either way, our pets abilities have nothing to do with Shortbows being kinda lacking.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Allow crossfire to shoot 3 arrows per second instead of almost 2, and I would start using the weapon again. Oh, and give back 1200 range please.

(Skill #3 should grant superspeed instead of swiftness.)

I can throw my axe just as far as I can shoot my arrow………
Nothing to see here.

This isn’t a rework. You’re just asking for every skill to be straight buffed. I don’t necessarily disagree with your buff suggestions, but let’s call them when they are.

I honestly stopped reading at the “bleeding from the side or behind” part. I’m sorry.

@Blaine Tog.8304
Good point. Since I’m not a native English speaker I couldn’t think of a better description. I didn’t want to use “buff” because that word (“nerf” as well) usually attracts the wrong kind of forum user. Feel free to suggest a new word though so I can change it.

@Swagger.1459
I don’t understand your point tbh. Is the text too long to read for you? Or is my English not understandable? Please explain so I can help you.

We have been complaining about the bleed restriction for years… Fist things first is get rid of bad mechanics, not keep them in. There, I helped you instead.

Removing the positioning part completely is against the design guideline Anet tried to follow to make the short bow a unique weapon. That’s why I wrote the long first part explaining everything before posting any suggestions.

An auto attack with just bleeds would be pretty boring. Instead we should try to keep the skill the way it was designed and balance the numbers to make the short bow a viable weapon again.

Whatever you say.

Blackhat.4016:

Removing the positioning part completely is against the design guideline Anet tried to follow to make the short bow a unique weapon. That’s why I wrote the long first part explaining everything before posting any suggestions.

An auto attack with just bleeds would be pretty boring. Instead we should try to keep the skill the way it was designed and balance the numbers to make the short bow a viable weapon again.

I think it either needs to be sped up if the restriction’s kept, or just made so that you get more/stronger bleeds while flanking and less if you’re not. Either way, Auto attack is improved and flanking still has some value with it.

Euthymias.7984:

Blackhat.4016:

Removing the positioning part completely is against the design guideline Anet tried to follow to make the short bow a unique weapon. That’s why I wrote the long first part explaining everything before posting any suggestions.

An auto attack with just bleeds would be pretty boring. Instead we should try to keep the skill the way it was designed and balance the numbers to make the short bow a viable weapon again.

I think it either needs to be sped up if the restriction’s kept, or just made so that you get more/stronger bleeds while flanking and less if you’re not. Either way, Auto attack is improved and flanking still has some value with it.

That’s exactly what I suggested in the very first post.

Blackhat.4016:

@Blaine Tog.8304
Good point. Since I’m not a native English speaker I couldn’t think of a better description. I didn’t want to use “buff” because that word (“nerf” as well) usually attracts the wrong kind of forum user. Feel free to suggest a new word though so I can change it.

I suggest you use the word “buff,” because that’s the correct word to use in this situation. You’re asking for buffs, so be upfront about that. The only alternative would be to think harder about what the Shortbow needs and actually suggest sweeping-enough changes so the word “rework” can apply.

For my part, I like the change to the autoattack, though I’d probably change it to a 1 sec Bleed + a 2-sec Bleed if you strike from behind our the side. No need to double the damage when we could instead just normalize it and put power into other skills.

I’m indifferent to your other suggestions. They don’t solve any problems, they just buff for the sake of buffing.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Blackhat.4016:

@Blaine Tog.8304
Good point. Since I’m not a native English speaker I couldn’t think of a better description. I didn’t want to use “buff” because that word (“nerf” as well) usually attracts the wrong kind of forum user. Feel free to suggest a new word though so I can change it.

I suggest you use the word “buff,” because that’s the correct word to use in this situation. You’re asking for buffs, so be upfront about that. The only alternative would be to think harder about what the Shortbow needs and actually suggest sweeping-enough changes so the word “rework” can apply.

For my part, I like the change to the autoattack, though I’d probably change it to a 1 sec Bleed + a 2-sec Bleed if you strike from behind our the side. No need to double the damage when we could instead just normalize it and put power into other skills.

I’m indifferent to your other suggestions. They don’t solve any problems, they just buff for the sake of buffing.

Changed it to “buffs” now since your argument makes sense. I just hope the trolls stay away from this thread.

The numbers on the AA and other skills are pretty much all buffs because that’s what the short bow needs imo. The skills themself make sense but the numbers are too low compared to other professions. That’s why I listed all the similar skills. Changes to numbers instead of entire skills are also easier to implement for Anet.

yep, the shortbow need some work, i love the fast pace of the weapon, sadly you have to go extreme condi to make this weapon do an average damage.
which leave you really in disadvantage compared to the other classes.

Swagger.1459:

We have been complaining about the bleed restriction for years… Fist things first is get rid of bad mechanics, not keep them in. There, I helped you instead.

I disagree that the flanking effects on shortbow are bad mechanics, I personally think that they are what makes the shortbow interesting, and should be expanded to include a flanking mechanic on every skill. Doing that would actually give the shortbow an identity. I also think that our old +10% damage when flanking trait should be rolled into the shortbow.

Personally I think that if flanking effects and a +10% damage boost were added, the skills wouldn’t need to be overhauled all that much, with a couple of possible tweak improvements like giving the crippling shot bleed to the player, and making poison volley into a PBT AoE rather than a cone AoE.

e.g.

Crossfire
- 1s bleed added when not flanking. +10% damage when flanking
Normal: Dmg:134, 1s bleed, 20% projectile
Flanking: Dmg:150, 3s bleed, 20% projectile

Poison Volley
- Converted from Cone AoE to PBT AoE. Poison field and +10% damage when flanking
Normal: Dmg:170, Targets:5, AoE Radius:120, 4s poison
Flanking: Dmg:190, Targets:5, AoE Radius:120, 4s poison, 2s poison field

Quick Shot
- +10% damage and 2s quickness when flanking
Normal: Dmg:118, 2s swiftness, 0.5s evade, projectile finisher
Flanking: Dmg:130, 2s swiftness, 0.5s evade, projectile finisher, 2s quickness

Crippling Shot
- bleeding moved from pet to player (1 stack normal, 3 stacks flanking). +10% damage and +3s torment when flanking
Normal: Dmg:118, 3s crippled, 1 stack 6s bleed, projectile finisher
Flanking: Dmg:130, 3s crippled, 3s torment, 3 stacks 6s bleed, projectile finisher

Concussion Shot
- 3s confusion and +10% damage when flanking
Normal: Dmg:118, 1s daze, 1s stun, projectile finisher
Flanking: Dmg:130, 1s daze, 1s stun, 3 stacks 3s confusion, projectile finisher

How about giving it 20% more damage and truly make it a condition pressure weapon by making it bleed from the front too… Maybe it will see some use in meta builds then…

How about we have a better functioning sword, get rid of the root, get rid of the wonky movements and make it a more direct moment weapon that doesn’t root you and hones in on the target…

How about we remove the root on axe 5.

How about we make daggers more interesting.

How about we up the greatsword damage.

bump………………………..

What is Shortbow even supposed to do? It sucks at Condition damage, it’s not a Power Ranged weapon (Longbow is vastly superior in every way), it’s not for CC, it’s not aoe…. I don’t get it.

Kain Francois.4328:

What is Shortbow even supposed to do? It sucks at Condition damage, it’s not a Power Ranged weapon (Longbow is vastly superior in every way), it’s not for CC, it’s not aoe…. I don’t get it.

shortbow should be our superior condition weapon.
how its designed it should apply a rapidly growing condition damage to be able to make up for the weak phisical damage.

unfortunately like anything the ranger has is badly designed by Aney.

• flanking is almost impossible in this game in pvp. a player only need to use AA and let the system do the rest.
• flanking in pve is also extremely dangerous not making up one stack of bleed for the fact that you have to be behind enemy lines.
• the weapon has very little utility, being the #3 only attack that could be considered. anfortunately too many constrains to be able to use it (it has to hit) and too little reward (swiftness+very short evade) make it not useful in most situations.

Shortbow like many of the ranger weapons still keep the design from the first gw2 beta. And while the other classes evolved and adjusted their weapon skills if needed, the ranger kept this wonky and not rewarding weapon system.

i would make this:

• reduce the phisical damage for the shortbow at the same level as the staff.
• increase the condition presure of this weapon in every single skill.

I’d really love to see the shortbow range returned to 1200. I know they originally lowered it to be less than the longbow, but they’ve since increased longbow to 1500… so…

anduriell.6280:

Kain Francois.4328:

What is Shortbow even supposed to do? It sucks at Condition damage, it’s not a Power Ranged weapon (Longbow is vastly superior in every way), it’s not for CC, it’s not aoe…. I don’t get it.

shortbow should be our superior condition weapon.
how its designed it should apply a rapidly growing condition damage to be able to make up for the weak phisical damage.

unfortunately like anything the ranger has is badly designed by Aney.

• flanking is almost impossible in this game in pvp. a player only need to use AA and let the system do the rest.
• flanking in pve is also extremely dangerous not making up one stack of bleed for the fact that you have to be behind enemy lines.
• the weapon has very little utility, being the #3 only attack that could be considered. anfortunately too many constrains to be able to use it (it has to hit) and too little reward (swiftness+very short evade) make it not useful in most situations.

Shortbow like many of the ranger weapons still keep the design from the first gw2 beta. And while the other classes evolved and adjusted their weapon skills if needed, the ranger kept this wonky and not rewarding weapon system.

i would make this:

• reduce the phisical damage for the shortbow at the same level as the staff.
• increase the condition presure of this weapon in every single skill.

Flanking is very possible in pvp.. even better in pve since you have access to cripple sources from sigils.

It’s just learning to kite.

But again SB suck so bad…

I say this in every thread, but shortbow is not a ‘primarily condition’ weapon. In fact, it is considered a bad weapon because everyone assumes it’s a condi weapon, and compares it to Axe/torch.

SB does alot of physical damage, especially when you can factor in quickness. It has great dynamics with sword, and can allow you to run zerk amulet and rely on evades to survive.

I think SB should be buffed, but not in the sense that the condition aspects of the weapon are buffed.

If the skills #1, #2 and #4 intend to apply condition damage, you should consider it a condi weapon. If it is not a condi weapon as you suggest, it is even more useless.

Getting the 1,200 range back would make a ton of sense given the range was only reduced to give the longbow a niche. Now that the longbow’s base range has been bumped to 1,500, I see no reason why the shortbow shouldn’t be returned to 1,200.

darksilklips.3165:

I’d really love to see the shortbow range returned to 1200. I know they originally lowered it to be less than the longbow, but they’ve since increased longbow to 1500… so…

yeah that could make easier to flank at least.
apply bleeds always and might(same as axe) if you flank would be a solution for the sb#1

there is the wonky mechanic for the rest of the skills though.