Guild Wars 2

Whats the best pvp amulet for condition (or hybrid/condition) rangers for the coming meta with the feature patch in your opinons? This applies to spirit, traps, and more niche survival/signet set ups

These are my experiences:

Carrion: streamers tend to like this one on traps/spirits as it helps against conditions and many of our weapons are hybridized.

Rabid: lower physical DPS is made up for greater bleed application from crit procs. It seems more viable on rangers than condition classes with slower attacks, because things like shortbow autoattacks are quick, and skills like poison volley, and splitblade hit 5 times at point black range, maximizing the amount of extra bleeds you can theoretically get in a single instance. When using it, troll unugent felt like a better heal, but my overall sustain felt worse because I was more vulnerable to burst and conditions. EB can only help so much.

Celestial: Currently the lack of might makes this a lower damage option as most of our weapons don’t have a strong power coefficient besides sword autos.

Settler: I wouldn’t use this with traps at all, only spirits and more regen focused builds (natures voice guard spam). It makes us tanky beyond belief, but it take a lot longer to kill anything than the other amulets.

Runes: These are some of the runes I think are the best for condition rangers

Balthazar runes: Usually seems to be taken with carrion on spirit or trap builds to maxmize burn damage and output

Krait runes: I think these are best on rabid trap builds with entangle for the cover condition condi bomb, and to maximize your mileage from the fast bleed stacks you can put out with a proper rotation.

Undead: near mandatory on settlers so they can have a decent level of condi damage.

Weapon combinations.

Shortbow. Its a boring weapon, but I think its okay for what it does, which is basically pew pewing enemies while flanking in team fights to overload them with bleeds. The volley is good too, and the other skills are a bit more situational, but have their uses.

Axe/dagger. MH axe is Lacklustre right now, but might with the auto, will be very good on builds that go into nature magic due to the boon duration and fortifying bond to make pets more useful. Splitblade at point blank range can be incorporated with condition “burst” roations so to speak with either shortbow or s/torch, and using all the cooldowns on this weapon set can overwhelm enemies quite quickly.

Sword/dagger/torch, the autoattack is only marginally useful on carrion/celestial but could stack bleeds on rabid. I mainly like this weapon as a defensive choice on condition builds for the evades, and the cool things I can do using the torch skills!

So what do you guys think will be the best type of condition build set up for the future meta after the patch?

Nice commentary/ideas. Thank you.
I have a Carrion set waiting, but haven’t yet seen a real benefit with Celestial armor.
Maybe post-update? …Maybe?

Slalom.3174:

Nice commentary/ideas. Thank you.
I have a Carrion set waiting, but haven’t yet seen a real benefit with Celestial armor.
Maybe post-update? …Maybe?

Yeah, I’m thinking more in terms of pvp amulet stats, in which celestial is a lot better these via relativity.

I personally like celestial because it gives decent durability while allowing you have fairly high outgoing DPS. With rabid you are susceptible to burst with low HP, and conditions will eat you as well. Carrion leaves you very vulnerable as well. Settlers isn’t even a good condi amulet, the only build I would use it for on a ranger is regen ranger, but with settlers you have no power or precision to get off crit procs.

Rabid is more of an all out type amulet. It’s the zerker of conditions kind of, while it may have high toughness you will still get killed fairly quickly against conditions and the low HP will only get you so far. For ranger I wouldn’t really ever take carrion over rabid, but it’s kind of a personal choice. I would rather have the toughness and bleed on crits than stronger attacks and more HP. However Carrion and Rabid especially leave you with really only one option of attack and that is conditions, and if the enemy has a high health pool or enough condi cleanses it can make for some hard fights. That’s why I like celestial, because even if somebody is cleansing your conditions, you’re not hitting for peanuts like you would with rabid, you have some other form of DPS, which you harder to counter.

Settler/Celestial: BM Regen/Condi – soloQ trolling.

Works just like it does in WvW roaming. Eats face all day long. I have settler on one ranger and celestial on another, not sure if the differences really matter (yet). Maybe with the axe might stacking Celestial may pull ahead.

I think we might start seeing a build like : 20606 celestial signet beastmastery a/t s/d pop up in solo queue as a homepoint defender or attacking far point. This build would have extremely high survivability due to signet of stone & renewal, as well as the passive regen from

Shortbow doesn’t have enough damage to be able to deal with elementalist/warrior sustain currently

I think celestial w/axe will be the no brainer post patch. The only thing yet to be seen is if it can stack might in a 1on1.

Sube Dai.8496:

I think celestial w/axe will be the no brainer post patch. The only thing yet to be seen is if it can stack might in a 1on1.

In a 1v1 might stacking is pretty easy with strength runes and battle sigils and even sigil of strength. Although if you add axe to that, with the might duration, might on crit and might on swap you could get some really high stacks.

infantrydivEU.9670:

I think we might start seeing a build like : 20606 celestial signet beastmastery a/t s/d pop up in solo queue as a homepoint defender or attacking far point. This build would have extremely high survivability due to signet of stone & renewal, as well as the passive regen from

Shortbow doesn’t have enough damage to be able to deal with elementalist/warrior sustain currently

I think when using axe and a pet spec, that picking up NM’s Fortifying bond will be the key. while we may only be getting 3s of might on hit our pet will be getting 10s of might on hit and we will be able to stack might on our pets in to the realms of ridiculousness. The options I’m considering are 0/0/6/3/5, 0/4/0/6/4, 0/2/6/6/0, you get the pitcure. what I’m realy look foreword to trying is something like this

and to address the OP I’m a big fan of celestial builds for YOLOq I almost always use Celestial over the condi amulets and i only use Settlers in tPvP when I’m playing home point bunker.

Eggyokeo.9705:

infantrydivEU.9670:

I think we might start seeing a build like : 20606 celestial signet beastmastery a/t s/d pop up in solo queue as a homepoint defender or attacking far point. This build would have extremely high survivability due to signet of stone & renewal, as well as the passive regen from

Shortbow doesn’t have enough damage to be able to deal with elementalist/warrior sustain currently

I think when using axe and a pet spec, that picking up NM’s Fortifying bond will be the key. while we may only be getting 3s of might on hit our pet will be getting 10s of might on hit and we will be able to stack might on our pets in to the realms of ridiculousness. The options I’m considering are 0/0/6/3/5, 0/4/0/6/4, 0/2/6/6/0, you get the pitcure. what I’m realy look foreword to trying is something like this

and to address the OP I’m a big fan of celestial builds for YOLOq I almost always use Celestial over the condi amulets and i only use Settlers in tPvP when I’m playing home point bunker.

Why celestial over carrion or rabid?

I’m also greatly interested in making a trap build, but theres no way I could take empathatic bond, trapper’s potency, and fortifying bond all in the same build. I could make due with healing spring and SotF for removal, but I’d only have enough room for lighting reflexes and entangle in such a build, plus no offhand training… so I guess I’m stuck playing BM, regen, or spirits.

warriorjrd.8695:

Sube Dai.8496:

I think celestial w/axe will be the no brainer post patch. The only thing yet to be seen is if it can stack might in a 1on1.

In a 1v1 might stacking is pretty easy with strength runes and battle sigils and even sigil of strength. Although if you add axe to that, with the might duration, might on crit and might on swap you could get some really high stacks.

If it was that easy people would run it already. I think the new axe alone needs to add a significant amount of stacks, in a 1v1 scenario, or it won’t be any better than what we can currently do (which is not good enough).

nearlight.3064:

Why celestial over carrion or rabid?

Fair question part of it is the type of builds i play and the way i play. I don’t like carrion much as it relies on protection for damage reduction, if you don’t have a high up time of protection or it gets striped you die to direct damage to quick. Also high vitality makes healing less efficive. rabid is a good set and there are builds that i do use it for (krait rune, bleed proc’ing type builds) but with any all out condi/bleed builds if you opponent can handle condis well then your out of luck.

Celestial with the appropriate builds is less rock/paper/scissors then all out power or condi builds, and you run in to all-sots of strange stuff in soloQ. Also a lot of our weapons are very hybrid in nature, SB, MH Axe, 1H sword dagger all hit ok on power and condi. Celestial for me is a case of the longer the fight goes on the more in you favor the battle becomes.

nearlight.3064:

I’m also greatly interested in making a trap build, but theres no way I could take empathatic bond, trapper’s potency, and fortifying bond all in the same build. I could make due with healing spring and SotF for removal, but I’d only have enough room for lighting reflexes and entangle in such a build, plus no offhand training… so I guess I’m stuck playing BM, regen, or spirits.

making a trapper beast-master build would be a struggle

I honestly think Celestial is just the way to go right now, especially compared to other amulets.

Like, evaluating it versus Carrion and Rabid, you lose some condition damage and about 100 stats off of the secondary amulet stats with Celestial, but end up with an overall more offensive build with the right setup due to having every stat you need on the build, and easily more tanky builds with having all of the defensive stats on the same build and the beneficial relationship of healing power/toughness/vitality and how they affect each other.

You honestly don’t even need might stacking right now. You can just run Celestial with Runes of the Pirate (like the meta staff ele build) with a Shortbow and Sword/Dagger and you’re set.

I left out comparing it against Settlers because Settler’s ACTUALLY has a slight advantage in one area over celestial, and that’s bunkering. However, people in general would argue that by the time you go that route in PvP, you may as well take a different profession. Though I don’t personally agree and believe that, and especially after the update, Settler’s bunker support tanks (if running spirits) are going to be pretty great at sidepoint assault and self/teamfight support.

All of the celestial talk assumes a hybrid build though (running Shortbow and Sword/Dagger).

After the patch, Longbow/Greatsword will ACTUALLY be an option, though I don’t think people see it because they are thinking of playing it differently role wise than how it will actually perform.

jcbroe.4329:

I honestly think Celestial is just the way to go right now, especially compared to other amulets.

Like, evaluating it versus Carrion and Rabid, you lose some condition damage and about 100 stats off of the secondary amulet stats with Celestial, but end up with an overall more offensive build with the right setup due to having every stat you need on the build, and easily more tanky builds with having all of the defensive stats on the same build and the beneficial relationship of healing power/toughness/vitality and how they affect each other.

You honestly don’t even need might stacking right now. You can just run Celestial with Runes of the Pirate (like the meta staff ele build) with a Shortbow and Sword/Dagger and you’re set.

I left out comparing it against Settlers because Settler’s ACTUALLY has a slight advantage in one area over celestial, and that’s bunkering. However, people in general would argue that by the time you go that route in PvP, you may as well take a different profession. Though I don’t personally agree and believe that, and especially after the update, Settler’s bunker support tanks (if running spirits) are going to be pretty great at sidepoint assault and self/teamfight support.

All of the celestial talk assumes a hybrid build though (running Shortbow and Sword/Dagger).

After the patch, Longbow/Greatsword will ACTUALLY be an option, though I don’t think people see it because they are thinking of playing it differently role wise than how it will actually perform.

longbow/GS builds are meh to me.

Anyway, I like settlers with undead runes because with might from axe it should be equalish in condition DPS to carrion with krait/balth runes. I like it becuase, even now, its damage isn’t much lower than the condi amulets and it has so much more sustain, except against conditions. I think celestial will be good as long as it doesn’t get nerfed somehow.

infantrydivEU.9670:

Shortbow doesn’t have enough damage to be able to deal with elementalist/warrior sustain currently

Yes it does, and it always has.

With Krait runes you can maintain 9 stacks of bleeds with shortbow without any crit based help. That is alone is enough to counter their regen and win the fight, and is significantly more than what mainhand axe can maintain (though axe frees up your offhand for dagger or torch, and has the awesome winters bite). With good precision, earth sigil and sharpened edges, 12-14. With keen edges and sharpening stone you almost cap out.

Not holding a flanking position is not a fault of the weapon. Especially against clumsy cleaving classes like warriors and eles.

nearlight.3064:

jcbroe.4329:

I honestly think Celestial is just the way to go right now, especially compared to other amulets.

Like, evaluating it versus Carrion and Rabid, you lose some condition damage and about 100 stats off of the secondary amulet stats with Celestial, but end up with an overall more offensive build with the right setup due to having every stat you need on the build, and easily more tanky builds with having all of the defensive stats on the same build and the beneficial relationship of healing power/toughness/vitality and how they affect each other.

You honestly don’t even need might stacking right now. You can just run Celestial with Runes of the Pirate (like the meta staff ele build) with a Shortbow and Sword/Dagger and you’re set.

I left out comparing it against Settlers because Settler’s ACTUALLY has a slight advantage in one area over celestial, and that’s bunkering. However, people in general would argue that by the time you go that route in PvP, you may as well take a different profession. Though I don’t personally agree and believe that, and especially after the update, Settler’s bunker support tanks (if running spirits) are going to be pretty great at sidepoint assault and self/teamfight support.

All of the celestial talk assumes a hybrid build though (running Shortbow and Sword/Dagger).

After the patch, Longbow/Greatsword will ACTUALLY be an option, though I don’t think people see it because they are thinking of playing it differently role wise than how it will actually perform.

longbow/GS builds are meh to me.

Anyway, I like settlers with undead runes because with might from axe it should be equalish in condition DPS to carrion with krait/balth runes. I like it becuase, even now, its damage isn’t much lower than the condi amulets and it has so much more sustain, except against conditions. I think celestial will be good as long as it doesn’t get nerfed somehow.

Yeah Longbow/GS is an “acquired taste” and running it before the patch is a pretty bad idea unless you are dead set on playing the setup, knowing full well that it does get outclassed in pretty much every area it outputs.

After the patch though, if people are smart enough to not gear their builds as full glass and instead, for PvP, push more towards running a tanky style build the way warriors tend to build, it does have potential. It’ll just never play like the high mobility, ranged sniper thief that people seem to want the class to play (without dying to a breeze).

Pushing passed that though, yeah, Settler’s has always been my favorite condi-based build. The only issues it runs into currently is far point warrior builds (tanky eviscerate builds) that know how to camp their LB for cleansing ire procs, and eles that are good at rotating their cooldowns.

I know of certain players that already bypass issues with builds like that by running Settler’s and going semi-BM investment for direct damage output as well (they usually run hybrid spirits, so like, 0/0/6/4/4 or 0/0/6/5/3) so that they can deal with certain classes that have extreme healing.

In fact, the only reason builds like this aren’t “meta” is because the game pushed towards a swiss army knife, need to be able to do everything gameplay style where builds try to push for as much dueling AND teamfight potential as possible and ranger weapons/pets are lacking in teamfights due to the singular factor of lack of AoE/cleave.

That’ll still be our biggest issue post patch actually; the inability to compete with other classes AoE/cleave. The Warrior/Engi/Ele (necros and mesmers will probably still be a pick up for boon countering. Thieves will occur less frequently with their sustain build basically being neutered and having to go back to pistol whip/backstab. Guardians are less of a necessity on team comps but still useful so never pushed into obscurity) core will remain untouched really, so the biggest challenge rangers have is to figure out how to beat out against those classes or accomplish useful functions beyond or benefiting the scope of what those classes cover.

Personally I’m a huge fan of a comp that highly benefits rangers which would be the 3 teamfight/tanky, 2 side point duelist comp, in which the duelists can rotate in and out of a teamfight to add bodies but are designed to contest and take the opponents homepoint, while are mobile enough to get in and out of teamfights and retake homepoints (if necessary) or stop home pushes.

Rangers have always shined at that role, and the changes hurt other classes just enough for rangers to retake our title of “king of the sidepoint.”

Those are my current thoughts on it anyways. I wouldn’t even place Carrion/Rabid in the running though as long as Celestial exists. Options for PvP are basically Zerkers/Soldiers/Celestial/Settlers as far as I can tell for rangers.

@jcbro, yeah thats basically why I’ve been running traps, to have more AoE condition pressure for both bunkering and team fights. I know I’m doing it wrong, but I basically just use my pet as a meat shiled to take conditions and the occasional CC.

@raven, I honestly haven’t used the shortbow much over axe/dagger. To me it seems only good for focusing bleeds on a target from the sidelines in a team fight. I think axe/dagger w/sword torch pulls ahead for 1v1s and settler builds in general because it has greater benefits to being on or near a point instead of the sidelines. Plus the might will let you match the match the condition damage level of carrion w/krait/balth runes on a trap or spirit set up. Right not I’m using a streamer’s settler trap/regen build and its great, for having nearly the sustain of a bunker but the condition pressure and “team support” of a trap build.

jcbroe.4329:

Those are my current thoughts on it anyways. I wouldn’t even place Carrion/Rabid in the running though as long as Celestial exists. Options for PvP are basically Zerkers/Soldiers/Celestial/Settlers as far as I can tell for rangers.

Carrion is a very strong amulet for trappers who are getting toughness and precision (+fury) from traits already. Rabid is a very strong amulet for any condition build that doesn’t invest significantly in skirmishing.

nearlight.3064:

@raven, I honestly haven’t used the shortbow much over axe/dagger. To me it seems only good for focusing bleeds on a target from the sidelines in a team fight. I think axe/dagger w/sword torch pulls ahead for 1v1s and settler builds in general because it has greater benefits to being on or near a point instead of the sidelines. Plus the might will let you match the match the condition damage level of carrion w/krait/balth runes on a trap or spirit set up. Right not I’m using a streamer’s settler trap/regen build and its great, for having nearly the sustain of a bunker but the condition pressure and “team support” of a trap build.

The beauty of shortbow is that you can be on the sidelines but you dont have to be.

If you are in a fight as a mainhand axe ranger, you have to be in melee every 6sec in order to shotgun your spitblade. Failure to shotgun spitblade means you are only applying on crit bleeds on a 1second attack rate (only .5 sec in the lucky cases where you have exactly 2 targets, and even then that can be bad because your sigils have a good chance to proc on the wrong target).

The shortbow can be in melee, it can be at range, its equally effective at either distance, and if for some reason you cant flank your target you are still firing every .5sec getting tons of bleed on crit procs.

As far as axe might, i doubt its going to be a game changer. axe rangers are getting all excited for it, but a 3 sec base duration of might on a 1sec cast time auto attack is terrible for any single target situation, and all those stacks will wear off completely within less than 6 seconds with even the booniest-durationest build possible.

the strength of axe is in winter’s bite and customizing offhand abilities for your build.

Raven.9603:

jcbroe.4329:

Those are my current thoughts on it anyways. I wouldn’t even place Carrion/Rabid in the running though as long as Celestial exists. Options for PvP are basically Zerkers/Soldiers/Celestial/Settlers as far as I can tell for rangers.

Carrion is a very strong amulet for trappers who are getting toughness and precision (+fury) from traits already. Rabid is a very strong amulet for any condition build that doesn’t invest significantly in skirmishing.

Except that in any circumstance you’ll almost always benefit more at this point from just choosing celestial, because the combination of offensive and defensive stats on celestial gives most builds much more benefit than the focus that either Rabid or Carrion give.

The loss of any “focused” stats is made up for many times over by being able to pick up other stats that have a relationship with the “focused” stats, like instead of having just power or precision, you now have power/precision/ferocity, and instead of just toughness or vitality, you now have toughness/vitality/healing power, all of which directly benefit from one other and can increase each others efficiency/effectiveness more than what most existing amulets provide to builds.

The only true loss ends up being Condition Damage, but with the minimal scaling in condition damage, the loss of ~300 condition damage is only really felt on burning, and regardless you’ll make up for it in power damage anyhow. Most classes are currently bypassing this problem by might stacking so they can have the best of both worlds, but Rangers, like Engi builds, can just run a condition damage rune and be fine.

I’m not saying that ANY amulet is useless, I’m saying that by the time factoring in the losses matters in a real time situation, celestial will have more than made up for any shortcomings through sheer damage output alone, not to mention it’s understated defensive capabilities.

And it isn’t to say other options are weak either. It’s that celestial is just dominating the game right now because the tradeoff between picking celestial versus picking another amulet with more specialized stats is far too miniscule of a trade off to dissuade people from using celestial over most other options, especially with everything you gain just by having the particular stat combinations celestial gives.

Raven.9603:

jcbroe.4329:

Those are my current thoughts on it anyways. I wouldn’t even place Carrion/Rabid in the running though as long as Celestial exists. Options for PvP are basically Zerkers/Soldiers/Celestial/Settlers as far as I can tell for rangers.

Carrion is a very strong amulet for trappers who are getting toughness and precision (+fury) from traits already. Rabid is a very strong amulet for any condition build that doesn’t invest significantly in skirmishing.

nearlight.3064:

@raven, I honestly haven’t used the shortbow much over axe/dagger. To me it seems only good for focusing bleeds on a target from the sidelines in a team fight. I think axe/dagger w/sword torch pulls ahead for 1v1s and settler builds in general because it has greater benefits to being on or near a point instead of the sidelines. Plus the might will let you match the match the condition damage level of carrion w/krait/balth runes on a trap or spirit set up. Right not I’m using a streamer’s settler trap/regen build and its great, for having nearly the sustain of a bunker but the condition pressure and “team support” of a trap build.

The beauty of shortbow is that you can be on the sidelines but you dont have to be.

If you are in a fight as a mainhand axe ranger, you have to be in melee every 6sec in order to shotgun your spitblade. Failure to shotgun spitblade means you are only applying on crit bleeds on a 1second attack rate (only .5 sec in the lucky cases where you have exactly 2 targets, and even then that can be bad because your sigils have a good chance to proc on the wrong target).

The shortbow can be in melee, it can be at range, its equally effective at either distance, and if for some reason you cant flank your target you are still firing every .5sec getting tons of bleed on crit procs.

As far as axe might, i doubt its going to be a game changer. axe rangers are getting all excited for it, but a 3 sec base duration of might on a 1sec cast time auto attack is terrible for any single target situation, and all those stacks will wear off completely within less than 6 seconds with even the booniest-durationest build possible.

the strength of axe is in winter’s bite and customizing offhand abilities for your build.

Yeah I can agree with that, which is why I think axe/dagger is better for more bunkery builds. I need to try out the shortbow more, but I keep getting into the mindset that its a sucky and boring weapon tbh.

nearlight.3064:

Raven.9603:

jcbroe.4329:

Those are my current thoughts on it anyways. I wouldn’t even place Carrion/Rabid in the running though as long as Celestial exists. Options for PvP are basically Zerkers/Soldiers/Celestial/Settlers as far as I can tell for rangers.

Carrion is a very strong amulet for trappers who are getting toughness and precision (+fury) from traits already. Rabid is a very strong amulet for any condition build that doesn’t invest significantly in skirmishing.

nearlight.3064:

@raven, I honestly haven’t used the shortbow much over axe/dagger. To me it seems only good for focusing bleeds on a target from the sidelines in a team fight. I think axe/dagger w/sword torch pulls ahead for 1v1s and settler builds in general because it has greater benefits to being on or near a point instead of the sidelines. Plus the might will let you match the match the condition damage level of carrion w/krait/balth runes on a trap or spirit set up. Right not I’m using a streamer’s settler trap/regen build and its great, for having nearly the sustain of a bunker but the condition pressure and “team support” of a trap build.

The beauty of shortbow is that you can be on the sidelines but you dont have to be.

If you are in a fight as a mainhand axe ranger, you have to be in melee every 6sec in order to shotgun your spitblade. Failure to shotgun spitblade means you are only applying on crit bleeds on a 1second attack rate (only .5 sec in the lucky cases where you have exactly 2 targets, and even then that can be bad because your sigils have a good chance to proc on the wrong target).

The shortbow can be in melee, it can be at range, its equally effective at either distance, and if for some reason you cant flank your target you are still firing every .5sec getting tons of bleed on crit procs.

As far as axe might, i doubt its going to be a game changer. axe rangers are getting all excited for it, but a 3 sec base duration of might on a 1sec cast time auto attack is terrible for any single target situation, and all those stacks will wear off completely within less than 6 seconds with even the booniest-durationest build possible.

the strength of axe is in winter’s bite and customizing offhand abilities for your build.

Yeah I can agree with that, which is why I think axe/dagger is better for more bunkery builds. I need to try out the shortbow more, but I keep getting into the mindset that its a sucky and boring weapon tbh.

SB is a bit lackluster but with celestial it’s quite useful, celestial is a hybrid amulet and SB is a hybrid weapon, they compliment each other. One thing I really like about SB is that it makes up for its fairly weak AA by having a high rate of fire, and with bleed on crit + flanking, that high rate of fire can stack up some serious bleeds. Those bleeds add a considerable amount of DPS to the weapon over all.

I run a bleed stacking build. with empathetic bond and sotf conditions aren’t a problem for me so; after trying all amulets, decided on rabid. With sb, s/d build and Krait runes you can melt people while still having great toughness/ condi clears.

It’s only going to get better with the patch