Guild Wars 2

So I play wvw and mainly pve ( Fractals and open world) , I been playing full zerker Lb and GS. So recently with the recent news of raids and so on It got me thinking. I wanna go full celestial armour with zerker weapons and trinkets or full celestial.
But never had experience with those stats and its very costly to change them, so wanted people who have use those stats opinion on them ?

I started to use sword and torch instead of lb and loving the whole full melee and with druid coming im excited xD pluss from the way Anet is describing the raid difficulty , zerker meta will be viable for certain classes but not all which got me thinking of changing stats.

So yeah I run full zerk gear and use s/t and gs so would celestial be a better option for stats ?

Celestial will give you a good amount of everything, so if you’re running a tankier, or supportive build or a jack of all trades build yes.

If you just plan on playing a damage oriented build though with very minor support is just stick with zerker, or swap to say Knights or Valk or a mix.

I’ve been thinking a lot about stats now as well. Very interested in hearing what people have to say on this. I really like Celestial but I’m not sure. Do you find you can survive ok with full zerker in wvw? For a full melee power damage build I was thinking of mixing cavalier and assassin to keep crit dmg high but work in some toughness but I’m not sure if something else would work out better.
Either way I’ll probably be waiting til druid reveal before buying/crafting anything.

I’d wait and see what HoT actually brings. So far there hasn’t been any reason to use defensive stats in PvE, you might be better off with a mix of zerk and sinister.

Spent a few minutes messing around with the build editor and came up with some decent stats for a hybrid build. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAV8fjEqQJL2tCurAVLGYEqv1X9WuH3OPE4C4yDgS2VBA-TlSAABJt/AFXAAsV+l+RAIgDCg06GwUlA1UCat6OA8AAIFwi6sA-w

Any of that could easily be changed, I was just goofing off.

well i pve more then anything and i do fractals more then anything in the game so wvw isnt that big of an issue for me haha never do dungeons because there not a challenge and are boring to me, Fractals for life haha

im just worried that the damage outcome if i swap to celestial is too low if that make sense, i know you can play any stats in pve.

im gonna wait for druid to be revealed aswel because if its mainly damage and healing/buffing, a mix of everything would be great.

UKADAM.3910:

well i pve more then anything and i do fractals more then anything in the game so wvw isnt that big of an issue for me haha never do dungeons because there not a challenge and are boring to me, Fractals for life haha

im just worried that the damage outcome if i swap to celestial is too low if that make sense, i know you can play any stats in pve.

im gonna wait for druid to be revealed aswel because if its mainly damage and healing/buffing, a mix of everything would be great.

If you’re worried about your damage dropping i’d recommend that whatever build you run with celestial is hybrid damage (both physical and condi), if you do that your damage wont be that low. However, if you try to run a pure condi or power build with celestial and just take celestial for the defensive stats you’re going to have a bad time.

There has been a nice calculation some time ago.

Celestial Armor is better only if you need every single stat of it minus 1.
If we take calculations of DPS and traits you need to split for the highest profit – do take celestial only if you can make a use of every single stat it offers.
Every single one.

Which may very likely happen when WvW is taken into consideration. Rangers offer nice regen uptime (healing with highest coefficient from Healing Power), and most of our weapons are hybrid with exception of LB and GS.

I personally made Celestial armor for my hybrid mesmer… And sooner realized that I never needed toughness nor healing power or condition damage, since all I needed was 3 seconds to blow anybody up, then stealth away and repeat if he managed to blind-dodged it.

So I’ll say it again. If you find at least 2 stats that you do not use in your build – do not take celestial.

Durzlla.6295:

If you’re worried about your damage dropping i’d recommend that whatever build you run with celestial is hybrid damage (both physical and condi), if you do that your damage wont be that low. However, if you try to run a pure condi or power build with celestial and just take celestial for the defensive stats you’re going to have a bad time.

This. Celestial got hit harder by the introduction of Ferocity than Berserker’s. Before, you only had to want 5 stats before Celestial was superior to mixing and matching armor sets. e.g. If you wanted 3 stats (pow, pre, crit dam), then Berserker’s was best. If you wanted 4 stats (say pow, pre, crit dam, toughness), then a mixed armor set was better. If you wanted 5 stats (one of them being crit dam), then Celestial was better than any mixed armor set you could come up with.

With the Ferocity change, the trade-off point for Celestial moved up to 6 stats. That is, of the 7 stats (pow, pre, ferocity, toughness, vit, condition damage, healing power), you have to want at least 6 of them before Celestial is better than a mix-and-match set.

I actually run Celestial armor on my ranger (out of sheer laziness – I got tired of swapping armor every time I changed traits; put Traveler runes on it to free up a utility skill from Signet of the Hunt). I moved ascended celestial trinkets from my ele to try out a pure celestial build (pure except for weapons). I would not recommend it. Celestial armor + berserker’s or sinister trinkets and weapons is ok, especially if you run a bloodlust or corruption sigil and build up a full stack. But its damage is still markedly less than a pure build.

The defensive stats simply don’t give enough benefit for the offensive stats you give up, even at the 1.85:1 trade-off ratio you get with Celestial (compared to a single armor type like Berserker’s, you’re giving up 41.9% of those 3 stats, for a gain of 77.5% to the other 4 stats, or a 1.85:1 ratio). If Anet makes changes to make the defensive stats more desirable, then this will increase the viability of Celestial. But with the current state of the game, I’d only recommend it if you want to be lazy or switch up builds a lot like me.

Edit: Here are the numbers for an ascended armor sets:

Berserker’s: 439 pow, 315 pre, 315 fer = 1069 total
Celestial: 207 to each stat
1 stat = 207
2 stats = 414
3 stats = 621
4 stats = 828
5 stats = 1035 (Berserker’s and thus a mix-and-match set is still better)
6 stats = 1242 (Celestial finally becomes better)
7 stats = 1449

Yeah, I currently use a full set of celestial armor and Zerker weapons and trinkets for the daily Fractal 50 run. The celestial mixes in nicely and compliments GS/LB. Celestial has the highest stat values and keeps pwr/pre/fer while adding defense. So it’s the best way to compliment a pure zerker build if you need to add defense.

That being said, don’t convert your zerker set. Just add celestial gear to your inventory. There are times when the full zerker set is certainly the best choice. Celestial is fantastic for fighting opponents with melle GS/ST. My strongest PvP uses this.

Dungeons are so easy you could run them without Armour and let your pet destroy everything so…

Archon.6480:

Yeah, I currently use a full set of celestial armor and Zerker weapons and trinkets for the daily Fractal 50 run. The celestial mixes in nicely and compliments GS/LB.

No, really, it doesn’t.

Celestial has the highest stat values and keeps pwr/pre/fer while adding defense. So it’s the best way to compliment a pure zerker build if you need to add defense.

I would be extremely cautious around this one. It offers the highest amount of stats that, sadly, are useless. Saying that it adds stats has vague meaning. Soldier’s Armor provides higher power and precision, and also offers more toughness – which means easier healing overall. See? That leads nowhere.
Every single second the NPC lives longer – your party suffers from damage. Celestial doesn’t belong to Fractals. Especially not those lvl 50.
By being selfish with defensive stats – you are harmful to whole party including yourself.

WvW/PvP are completely different from PvE and people shouldn’t mix those together. The only place in PvE where you can make use of Celestial is Mai Trin. Full stop and no exceptions.

As i already said – Celestial is not a bad choice for WvW roaming, especially if you have ways to stack might (which Rangers have).
But for PvE? God, please, no. Just don’t. For the sake of our community and your own.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Archon.6480:

Yeah, I currently use a full set of celestial armor and Zerker weapons and trinkets for the daily Fractal 50 run. The celestial mixes in nicely and compliments GS/LB.

No, really, it doesn’t.

Celestial has the highest stat values and keeps pwr/pre/fer while adding defense. So it’s the best way to compliment a pure zerker build if you need to add defense.

I would be extremely cautious around this one. It offers the highest amount of stats that, sadly, are useless. Saying that it adds stats has vague meaning. Soldier’s Armor provides higher power and precision, and also offers more toughness – which means easier healing overall. See? That leads nowhere.
Every single second the NPC lives longer – your party suffers from damage. Celestial doesn’t belong to Fractals. Especially not those lvl 50.
By being selfish with defensive stats – you are harmful to whole party including yourself.

WvW/PvP are completely different from PvE and people shouldn’t mix those together. The only place in PvE where you can make use of Celestial is Mai Trin. Full stop and no exceptions.

As i already said – Celestial is not a bad choice for WvW roaming, especially if you have ways to stack might (which Rangers have).
But for PvE? God, please, no. Just don’t. For the sake of our community and your own.

Interesting idea, but you are twisting what I said by generalizing. For PVE, the easiest game mode, why run anything but full sinister? Kill things fast and collect loot. Or, better yet, run in a chest farm train. The OP was talking about fractals and the possibly more challenging content, like raids, that comes with HoT.

So, assuming defense becomes a factor, what stat do you think is superior to celestial, to mix in with full zerker or full sinister? Please share your thoughts. I would also like you to clarify what stats are useless on Ranger because they are all useful.

Snipping

Every single second the NPC lives longer – your party suffers from damage.
By being selfish with defensive stats – you are harmful to whole party including yourself.

And most importantly, OP, don’t forget that dodge rolling to avoid damage is also being selfish with defence because that’s time you’re not spending mashing 1. Your party will and should hate you for it.

Archon.6480:

Interesting idea, but you are twisting what I said by generalizing. For PVE, the easiest game mode, why run anything but full sinister? Kill things fast and collect loot. Or, better yet, run in a chest farm train. The OP was talking about fractals and the possibly more challenging content, like raids, that comes with HoT.

So, assuming defense becomes a factor, what stat do you think is superior to celestial, to mix in with full zerker or full sinister? Please share your thoughts. I would also like you to clarify what stats are useless on Ranger because they are all useful.

I’m not really twisting anything. DPS is exactly the way to go for high level fractals and all challenging content. I’d dare to say a necessity.

Fractals and Raids are the PvE I’m talking about. Dungeons and open world content are too no-brainy that you can literally run full tank (Vanad was it?) and still feel good about yourself.

The truth is that the less DPS you have – the longer your enemy lives. Which is obviously far more dangerous on higher lvl content (you can literally tank dungeons whilst 50 fractals will result in a hit of 16K from auto-attacks). The more challenging the content gets – the more DPS you will need to reduce your damage long-term income.
It’s all about timing your Aegis, Evades and other mechanics to survive “during” dealing as much DPS as you can. Because Aegis and abilities have Cooldowns much higher than 1 hit from a boss that is able to take 80% of your HP. There’s no way you can outheal the damage, or mitigate the damage enough in order to be able to tank him. Period.

Celestial armor reduces your DPS by a huge margin and that is harmful for your group. You yourself asked

For PVE, the easiest game mode, why run anything but full sinister?

which sadly is exactly what you should do. You are supposed to bring as much DPS as you can for PvE because the goal of PvE is to kill the boss sooner than he kills you. The damage of bosses is far greater than yours and focusing on staying alive is not going to lead you anywhere because regardless of how much you try – you won’t be able to. That’s why Sinister / Zerk is the answer as clear as the day.

You mentioned that armor or dmg mitigation becomes part of the content – and I don’t see it coming at all. So by asking which stat choice beats celestial – I’d dare to say almost every single one that fits the situation and offers more of the stat you need.

The only possibilities to promote survival would be mechanics like these:
~ NPCs with huge health pools loosing their health in % passively
~ NPCs that can only be killed by their own AoE attacks (Mai Trin scheme)
~ NPCs that can be damaged only as a reward for surviving an assault wave for a set period of time
~ NPCs that reduce every single damage income to certain flat number (not by %)
~ NPCs with AoE aura that cannot be dodged, blocked or evaded that can only be negated by High HP pools (dealing more damage based on HP missing, flat amount), Reduced by Armor, or overhealed by sheer Healing Power stat.

And as far as I was able to see the beta – not a single one was designed, so far. Not a single NPC would promote staying alive, which leads me to conclusion that nothing of what are you trying to say is going to happen and that Killing your target sooner than it kills you will still be how this game works.
I haven’t seen the Raids, yet, but I can bet a few fingers on my arm that none of Raids would promote passive defense from stats, especially when everyone can heal himself, walk out of AoE, and actively evade or dodge incoming attacks.

You asked which stat is useless for a PvE Ranger?
1. Vitality
2. Healing Power
3. Toughness
Will we need some of those in the new content? Not likely. If so – the boss/NPC/Raid will be specifically mentioning this stat or stat combination. Nothing of HoT content forced you into defensive stats, so far.

By the logic of defensive stats – they don’t help you achieve anything. Staying alive is not the goal of any PvE content so far. They only make dealing damage more comfortable. Let’s call it training wheels. But we all know that training wheels are a handbrake because no one will run a bike with training wheels not even for sport, I’m not even mentioning competitive scene.

If you still feel like skeptically doubting the PvE system that has been held for several years, I’m afraid I won’t make your day brighter. I always go by the facts regardless of how much it goes against anyone’s expectations. If you can’t explain where am I wrong by real numbers and not assumptions and feelings – you may as well accept that you are playing PvE the wrong way – which might as well mean that you should refrain from advising people about playing high-level PvE content.

Rashagar.8349:

Snipping

Every single second the NPC lives longer – your party suffers from damage.
By being selfish with defensive stats – you are harmful to whole party including yourself.

And most importantly, OP, don’t forget that dodge rolling to avoid damage is also being selfish with defence because that’s time you’re not spending mashing 1. Your party will and should hate you for it.

I’m screenshotting this for how true it is lol

Durzlla.6295:

Rashagar.8349:

Snipping

Every single second the NPC lives longer – your party suffers from damage.
By being selfish with defensive stats – you are harmful to whole party including yourself.

And most importantly, OP, don’t forget that dodge rolling to avoid damage is also being selfish with defence because that’s time you’re not spending mashing 1. Your party will and should hate you for it.

I’m screenshotting this for how true it is lol

It’s as true as saying that we shouldn’t breathe because Oxygen is toxic (because it is).
This is about efficiency. Defensive armor reduces your DPS by roughly 30-40%. Dodge roll postpones your damage rotation by 0,75 second and may prolong your life just as much as the stats would have. 1 more boss attack.

Tragic Positive.9356:

If you still feel like skeptically doubting the PvE system that has been held for several years, I’m afraid I won’t make your day brighter. I always go by the facts regardless of how much it goes against anyone’s expectations. If you can’t explain where am I wrong by real numbers and not assumptions and feelings – you may as well accept that you are playing PvE the wrong way – which might as well mean that you should refrain from advising people about playing high-level PvE content.

Well, I disagree with your sentiments. And, if you bother to read the OP, I responded directly to what was asked. Your facts are wrong when you say Ranger does not make use of vitality, healing, and toughness. Every time you are hit, you make use of toughness, and vitality. Every time you heal you make use of healing power. You can’t unequip your healing skill, so it will always be there.

The only scenario where these stats are useless, is when you don’t take damage. And that, by definition, is not challenging.

im happy to see i wasnt the only one thinking of cele on ranger. since the hints of druid looking like a support elite spec for rangers makes me want to switch but i was worried i’d get hammered by the zerker only meta supporters. switching is alot easier now aswell since they made it possible to change ascended gear at the forge. the major issue about cele is you drop quite abit of offensive stats for abit of everything (nothing wrong with that since you get more defense in return). just if you plan on joining some dungeons most people (for some odd reason) like you to link your armor etc and if its not say zerker or something that gives some sort of high power or prec stats usually involves with you getting kicked. so my opinion is wait till we know more about HOT you never know they might change ranger abit.

Archon.6480:

Every time you are hit, you make use of toughness, and vitality.

Every time you are hit you most definitely did something wrong. Sword has 2 evades and you have 2 dodge rolls. You should have blinded the boss or should have been defended by Aegis. If you have enough DPS – that’s all you need to survive before being hit by any fatal strike.

Archon.6480:

Every time you heal you make use of healing power.

If you make use of healing power – it means you sacrificed a portion of your DPS. Which means you’ll need more evades and other mechanics since your enemy will live longer – and the more you need – the higher the possibility of running out of them.
Plus you strayed from your goal – to kill.
Analyze the situation and tell me… Which part of healing power helps you kill your target (that’s your only goal in PvE anyways)?

Archon.6480:

The only scenario where these stats are useless, is when you don’t take damage. And that, by definition, is not challenging.

The challenge is in not dying – which is achieved by mechanics. Your challenge is not in staying alive for 5 minutes. Neither it is to soak up 20 500 damage. Your challenge is to dodge/block/prevent the fatal damage. Those stats are useful only if you and your party are bad. Sorry to spoil it for you – but that’s how it is.

It’s not a secret that Full Zerk parties have 50lvl fractals a breeze. But once a celestial or healer or whoever joins the party – they all keep dying, naturally blaming the one who is not Zerk (even though he is usually the only alive).
Why? Because the boss didn’t die (lack of DPS) while they still had CDs for their survival skills. When they ran out of them – they died.

If you had LFG, you’d realize that nothing but Zerks are being requested for every content apart from open world events. You might consider asking why.

But to show you how wrong your ideology is.
You don’t really need any stat at all. None.
Just pick 5 thieves, keep perma stealthing and applying caltrops from stealth. You won’t get hit even once – and you will keep bleeding your target to death. You can do this naked without a single stat. This bulletproof tactic works. And there were guyz who already tried it. It took them 10 hours to complete 1 part of Arah, I think.

If you believe you need Armor and Healing Power – than you don’t. You just need a group of 5 thieves as I mentioned. And you’ll be more successful because you can’t screw up with Stealth-bleeding, but you can with full Tank-Healer setup.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Durzlla.6295:

Rashagar.8349:

Snipping

Every single second the NPC lives longer – your party suffers from damage.
By being selfish with defensive stats – you are harmful to whole party including yourself.

And most importantly, OP, don’t forget that dodge rolling to avoid damage is also being selfish with defence because that’s time you’re not spending mashing 1. Your party will and should hate you for it.

I’m screenshotting this for how true it is lol

It’s as true as saying that we shouldn’t breathe because Oxygen is toxic (because it is).
This is about efficiency. Defensive armor reduces your DPS by roughly 30-40%. Dodge roll postpones your damage rotation by 0,75 second and may prolong your life just as much as the stats would have. 1 more boss attack.

It was satirical.

Rashagar.8349:

It was satirical.

Sorry, from all what he wrote I couldn’t really tell. He seems pretty sure about it.

NOIP.1208:

im happy to see i wasnt the only one thinking of cele on ranger. since the hints of druid looking like a support elite spec for rangers makes me want to switch but i was worried i’d get hammered by the zerker only meta

I wouldn’t really be happy about Cele PvE supporters. It kind of only makes me sad. The most of us, actually.

We already provide a role of support. Spotter combined with Sun and Frost Spirits in Sinister is a heavy AoE DPS role that boosts group damage by lots.
People constantly keep misunderstanding support with healing, for some reason.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Rashagar.8349:

It was satirical.

Sorry, from all what he wrote I couldn’t really tell. He seems pretty sure about it.

Don’t get me wrong, i think defensive stats are worth investing in if the content is going to be challenging, but if the content remains as is (IE everything that can kill you is easily dodgeable), then no you shouldn’t invest in defensive stats if you are going for the most optimal route.

That being said, I do use Cele on my ranger because neither I, nor anyone i run with care for the fastest clear time and cele stats are better for when i want to WvW and I have no room for a second set of armor. But that doesn’t mean i’ll be spreading false information about how defensive stats are super great in the current PvE meta. I do think that raids will kill the full zerker meta, but i doubt zerker as a whole will die (IE the group may require having 3 non zerkers or something).

Durzlla.6295:

Don’t get me wrong, i think defensive stats are worth investing in if the content is going to be challenging, but if the content remains as is (IE everything that can kill you is easily dodgeable), then no you shouldn’t invest in defensive stats if you are going for the most optimal route.

That being said, I do use Cele on my ranger because neither I, nor anyone i run with care for the fastest clear time and cele stats are better for when i want to WvW and I have no room for a second set of armor. But that doesn’t mean i’ll be spreading false information about how defensive stats are super great in the current PvE meta. I do think that raids will kill the full zerker meta, but i doubt zerker as a whole will die (IE the group may require having 3 non zerkers or something).

Yep, I believe that with the introduction of Nomad, there might be a need for a person going full tank. Like holding a switch in dmg aura AoE while the others pass a phase?

But those will be specifics like I mentioned. If it is needed – it will be specified, not a requirement for everybody to invest into.
If they want to promote those defensive stats – they have to reduce damage and make it unavoidable. And that I don’t really think is going to happen.
You already get insta-killed if you fail to dodge in 50 fractals. Making content more challenging is not going to be a damage reduction on NPCs.

But if they do implement the mechanics that I stated – we might need it. It’s exactly like that. But I haven’t seen any sign of that, so far.

If anyone cares to read what I actually posted, instead of listening to the voices in their head, they would see I am not actually saying Celestial is “The way to go in PvE” or am I promoting defensive stats in brain-dead-easy PvE content. Those arguments are just silly. Rosetta Stone? English 101 maybe? Troll school, perhaps?

If you need to do damage and survive (in actual difficult content, like when you fight other players) defense is important and mixing celestial or going full out celestial is certainly a great way to go, if you understand the mechanics of the game.

IF PvE BECOMES DIFFICULT, similar to PvP, then I think having a set of celestial gear in your inventory might be a good idea. If you are smart, you’ll be able to make use of all your stats and be able to wreak havoc. If you are a button mashing troll noob, that doesn’t know how to make use of all your skills, I am sure you will find a way to waste some of your stats.

And finally, I run a mix of celestial and zerker in the daily 50 fractal because I usually only end up running with one or two friends and we don’t like wasting time in the LFG queue, waiting to get just the right people to join. We usually run a mix and we can finish the 50 run in under 30 minutes, regardless of teammates. With just a little mix-in you can still have high damage and enough survivability (wait for it) to revive teammates or handle situations where the team composition stinks. In this way we can queue up fast and don’t have to worry about the team wiping (the biggest, most annoying, waste of time imaginable). With a little defense, and brains, you should be able to 2-man any of the fights and finish in under 30 minutes, even if your teammates are not that great. This is smart, not selfish.

The largest factor in finishing the fights fast, is to keep 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vulnerability on the baddies. It’s like magic! Wow! Everything melts!

Tragic Positive.9356:

Durzlla.6295:

Don’t get me wrong, i think defensive stats are worth investing in if the content is going to be challenging, but if the content remains as is (IE everything that can kill you is easily dodgeable), then no you shouldn’t invest in defensive stats if you are going for the most optimal route.

That being said, I do use Cele on my ranger because neither I, nor anyone i run with care for the fastest clear time and cele stats are better for when i want to WvW and I have no room for a second set of armor. But that doesn’t mean i’ll be spreading false information about how defensive stats are super great in the current PvE meta. I do think that raids will kill the full zerker meta, but i doubt zerker as a whole will die (IE the group may require having 3 non zerkers or something).

Yep, I believe that with the introduction of Nomad, there might be a need for a person going full tank. Like holding a switch in dmg aura AoE while the others pass a phase?

But those will be specifics like I mentioned. If it is needed – it will be specified, not a requirement for everybody to invest into.
If they want to promote those defensive stats – they have to reduce damage and make it unavoidable. And that I don’t really think is going to happen.
You already get insta-killed if you fail to dodge in 50 fractals. Making content more challenging is not going to be a damage reduction on NPCs.

But if they do implement the mechanics that I stated – we might need it. It’s exactly like that. But I haven’t seen any sign of that, so far.

I think they’ll keep instakill mechanics, but I feel like they’re going to have enough unavoidable (well MOSTLY unavoidable) damage that you’ll need to have defensive stats present on at least a few of the raid members so they either 1) tank mobs for the squishier members 2) can live long enough to Rez the squishier members or 3) to do something common in other MMOs where you have to stack to absorb a hit (damage spread equally)

I feel like we will see at least one of those used enough to stop the WHOLE raid from running zerker. I do hope they allow zerkers to still be a thing though. I personally like to play Jack of All trades res builds (celestial + mercy runes) which work really well at babysitting zerkers (at the moment in PvE it only helps bad ones) , which may become a real thing in the “raid meta” if they make much needed changes.

Also, didn’t they say they were changing fractals to be less instakill? I thought I read that in the blog, but I could be mistaking what people are hoping for with what’s been said.

Durzlla.6295:

I think they’ll keep instakill mechanics, but I feel like they’re going to have enough unavoidable (well MOSTLY unavoidable) damage that you’ll need to have defensive stats present on at least a few of the raid members so they either 1) tank mobs for the squishier members 2) can live long enough to Rez the squishier members or 3) to do something common in other MMOs where you have to stack to absorb a hit (damage spread equally)

I feel like we will see at least one of those used enough to stop the WHOLE raid from running zerker. I do hope they allow zerkers to still be a thing though. I personally like to play Jack of All trades res builds (celestial + mercy runes) which work really well at babysitting zerkers (at the moment in PvE it only helps bad ones) , which may become a real thing in the “raid meta” if they make much needed changes.

Also, didn’t they say they were changing fractals to be less instakill? I thought I read that in the blog, but I could be mistaking what people are hoping for with what’s been said.

I somewhat believe that if defense becomes relevant – conditions will become the source of damage. Those only need 1 stat to do their job to the fullest unlike Direct.
If Power builds find themselves in need of defense – I believe mix of crusader-like stats would be the answer (Power>Tough>Fero>healing). Especially for Necros and Rangers since they don’t really need much precision.

If they make content where you need healing – you’ll need lots of it. That amount from Celestial would not be enough (we are talking about raids difficulty, let’s be real).
Vitality is not really helping at all. It’s job and role is taken by Toughness.
The only place where Vitality might seem relevant is conditions – and cleanse just beats it to the ground.

So one way or another, I still don’t really see celestial any worth since that’s already 2 stats that you “waste”.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Durzlla.6295:

I think they’ll keep instakill mechanics, but I feel like they’re going to have enough unavoidable (well MOSTLY unavoidable) damage that you’ll need to have defensive stats present on at least a few of the raid members so they either 1) tank mobs for the squishier members 2) can live long enough to Rez the squishier members or 3) to do something common in other MMOs where you have to stack to absorb a hit (damage spread equally)

I feel like we will see at least one of those used enough to stop the WHOLE raid from running zerker. I do hope they allow zerkers to still be a thing though. I personally like to play Jack of All trades res builds (celestial + mercy runes) which work really well at babysitting zerkers (at the moment in PvE it only helps bad ones) , which may become a real thing in the “raid meta” if they make much needed changes.

Also, didn’t they say they were changing fractals to be less instakill? I thought I read that in the blog, but I could be mistaking what people are hoping for with what’s been said.

I somewhat believe that if defense becomes relevant – conditions will become the source of damage. Those only need 1 stat to do their job to the fullest unlike Direct.
If Power builds find themselves in need of defense – I believe mix of crusader-like stats would be the answer (Power>Tough>Fero>healing). Especially for Necros and Rangers since they don’t really need much precision.

If they make content where you need healing – you’ll need lots of it. That amount from Celestial would not be enough (we are talking about raids difficulty, let’s be real).
Vitality is not really helping at all. It’s job and role is taken by Toughness.
The only place where Vitality might seem relevant is conditions – and cleanse just beats it to the ground.

So one way or another, I still don’t really see celestial any worth since that’s already 2 stats that you “waste”.

I think it really depends on the build, for example, a build that has AoE regen or invigorating bond could benefit from the healing power by making the healing not as bad (it’s certainly not a focus of the build otherwise you’d use clerics or nomads), not to mention healing power ALWAYS benefits you as a ranger, every point of healing power is another point of health you get from your HP since our heals pretty much all have a 1:1 ratio.

Vitality helps a little since our condi removal is pretty bad in most builds, so it can give you just a little bit more health to help deal with it and allow your AoE condi cleanses to not have to be blown just because you may have kittened up and got hit by condis when the rest of the group hasn’t and you know you’ll want the cleanse(s) later or something.

Essentially, celestial is a solid choice if your build actually takes advantage of all the stats, i think you need to utilize at least 5 of them for it to be worth thinking about, and then if you utilize ALL of them it’s better than everything else. But those builds aren’t that common, and normally require you to be pretty jack of all tradesy, which MOST people don’t even like to play, let alone actually play.

That being said, i’m pretty sure you’re right with the stat our damage builds would use, hell we might even be able to get away with zerker even if there IS unavoidable damage just by using a longbow build. I mean we can already outrange most dangers, and i’m almost positive a full zerker longbow build would outdamage a more melee focused build that has to use mixed stats.