Guild Wars 2

Needs to happen, to allow for viable DPS specs again:

• Decrease celestial force gained from raw healing.
• Increase celestial force gained from dealing damage.
• Allow use of celestial avatar whenever enough force is present to swap in to it.

Right now celestial force gains too slow if you aren’t running beast mastery shout regeneration builds. Making the above changes would allow the beast mastery shout regeneration builds to gain just as quickly as before but also allow DPS specs that don’t run shout regeneration to build a practical amount of celestial force through dealing damage alone.

i do agree that Shouts are the Fastest way to gain AF energy but its not the only way to gain AF energy .

taking double pips of regen , Signet of the wild Cycling between increased damage+high ticks ontop of wilderness Regen boon , supported by Verdent etching glyphs is enough to charge AF energy too some times even more if a Minionmancer or clones are nearby as glyphs effect 5 targets per pop stacked with Staff AA it gives a much higher AF energy per Round than shouts so as those only effect 5 targets excluding minions going last.

the only part i agree with is the use of Celestial form at 50% AF energy rather than a Full bar its quite Restrictive if you haven’t built for Multipul healing sources (not just shouts alone)

even on my viper Druid i can still enter CA form every 18-25seconds which to me feels like enough window between damage/ survival to consisder it useful , though again we don’t want CA management to be too easy to obtain.

I wouldn’t mind being able to transform only at 100% if we didn’t lose half of our gathered AF every time we leave Celestial Avatar.

Euthymias.7984:

I wouldn’t mind being able to transform only at 100% if we didn’t lose half of our gathered AF every time we leave Celestial Avatar.

that too , if they lowered it to 50% requirement to entre then removed the AF loss upon leaving i;d be a very happy bunny thumper.

Why encourage people who want to use a dps build even more to use druid (a healing/support focused specialisation!) instead of something like a dps oriented traitline? Those still exist, you know, even though almost nobody uses them anymore (in PvP).

It is already incredibly easy to gain AF and enter CAF on CD, even on dmg oriented builds without staff, if you build arround it.

Ya it’s like why even bother having AFG if you just want to completely remove the effort in generating it lol.

They will double the recharge if it becomes any easier to get into caf. But hey that doesn’t bother me any as I don’t use it on cd in my play.

I would like to agree.

We need reliable CAF generation without one of these stuff:

• Staff
• Perma Regen
• SotW

It is really build limiting.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Why encourage people who want to use a dps build even more to use druid (a healing/support focused specialisation!) instead of something like a dps oriented traitline? Those still exist, you know, even though almost nobody uses them anymore (in PvP).

It is already incredibly easy to gain AF and enter CAF on CD, even on dmg oriented builds without staff, if you build arround it.

Uhmm because you can provide Poison Master builds an viable way of having sustain and Cleanses?

Even Dps builds too.

For Druid you are forced to roll either:
BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff

And it is actually very limiting. Not even Signet of the Wild helps much. And you are prohibited to use it’s active if you want to ever see your Astral Form again.

At least 1 of all the proposed changes needs to happen. This one is just as good as any.

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

I don’t think runes, sigils or consumables should be taken into consideration when it comes to how often we should be able to use our specialization mechanic. Also, don’t forget CA is already gated by icd.

OGDeadHead.8326:

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

I don’t think runes, sigils or consumables should be taken into consideration when it comes to how often we should be able to use our specialization mechanic. Also, don’t forget CA is already gated by icd.

Why not? runes, sigils or consumables are part of the game and can be part of a build. Its another options if you decide not to go one of the options above which are not runes, sigils or consumables. the 10 sec icd is only to denay some builds that can abuse some of the CA traits every 5 sec wich is possible if you build for it.

CA mechanic is not perfect, but its not due to lack of options to regenerate AF.

LughLongArm.5460:

OGDeadHead.8326:

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

I don’t think runes, sigils or consumables should be taken into consideration when it comes to how often we should be able to use our specialization mechanic. Also, don’t forget CA is already gated by icd.

Why not? runes, sigils or consumables are part of the game and can be part of a build. Its another options if you decide not to go one of the options above which are not runes, sigils or consumables. the 10 sec icd is only to denay some builds that can abuse some of the CA traits every 5 sec wich is possible if you build for it.

CA mechanic is not perfect, but its not due to lack of options to regenerate AF.

SO you are telling me, you also have to limit your sigil choices?

You want me to get sigils that generate AF and kitten a build?

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

Again still limited to NM and BM? Which the meta is already those two?

Who uses water spirit and Fern hound in competitive PvP? Yes! 0

StickerHappy.8052:

LughLongArm.5460:

OGDeadHead.8326:

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

I don’t think runes, sigils or consumables should be taken into consideration when it comes to how often we should be able to use our specialization mechanic. Also, don’t forget CA is already gated by icd.

Why not? runes, sigils or consumables are part of the game and can be part of a build. Its another options if you decide not to go one of the options above which are not runes, sigils or consumables. the 10 sec icd is only to denay some builds that can abuse some of the CA traits every 5 sec wich is possible if you build for it.

CA mechanic is not perfect, but its not due to lack of options to regenerate AF.

SO you are telling me, you also have to limit your sigil choices?

You want me to get sigils that generate AF and kitten a build?

One of the biggest issues with PvP and even WvW to an extent atm is that many builds can dip there hands into every pot without making sacrifices. Many of the Elite specs themselves are examples of this. Druid in its current form has very few relative limitations yet it provides massive sustain and control covering the core rangers only weaknesses without significant sacrifice.

There has to be a draw back when taking druid. At the moment the variance in astral force gain between different druid builds is the only variant. Which is why druid is in nearly every top ranger build at this time.

Don’t act like making a minor investment in order to gain access to druids massively powerful effects that cover the core classes weaknesses is some kind of huge drawback. Its not. If anything. Taking druid should FORCEFULLY cost you significant damage output. Maybe then we would see an actual difference between builds.

But since it doesn’t you can use any number of methods to generate AF. There are almost a dozen methods I can think of off the top of my head that will fill your AF nearly on cooldown. And more that will still provide you a steady stream (though they won’t be as fast). Take any of them. And give something up in return. Having everything you could ever want in a build is a bad design philosophy.

Edit: Edited to be less obnoxious to read.

Shadelang.3012:

StickerHappy.8052:

LughLongArm.5460:

OGDeadHead.8326:

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

I don’t think runes, sigils or consumables should be taken into consideration when it comes to how often we should be able to use our specialization mechanic. Also, don’t forget CA is already gated by icd.

Why not? runes, sigils or consumables are part of the game and can be part of a build. Its another options if you decide not to go one of the options above which are not runes, sigils or consumables. the 10 sec icd is only to denay some builds that can abuse some of the CA traits every 5 sec wich is possible if you build for it.

CA mechanic is not perfect, but its not due to lack of options to regenerate AF.

SO you are telling me, you also have to limit your sigil choices?

You want me to get sigils that generate AF and kitten a build?

One of the biggest issues with PvP and even WvW to an extent atm is that many builds can dip there hands into every pot without making sacrifices. Many of the Elite specs themselves are examples of this. Druid in its current form has very few relative limitations yet it provides massive sustain and control covering the core rangers only weaknesses without significant sacrifice.

There has to be a draw back when taking druid. At the moment the variance in astral force gain between different druid builds is the only variant. Which is why druid is in nearly every top ranger build at this time.

Don’t act like making a minor investment in order to gain access to druids massively powerful effects that cover the core classes weaknesses is some kind of huge drawback. Its not. If anything. Taking druid should FORCEFULLY cost you significant damage output. Maybe then we would see an actual difference between builds.

But since it doesn’t you can use any number of methods to generate AF. There are almost a dozen methods I can think of off the top of my head that will fill your AF nearly on cooldown. And more that will still provide you a steady stream (though they won’t be as fast). Take any of them. And give something up in return. Having everything you could ever want in a build is a bad design philosophy.

Edit: Edited to be less obnoxious to read.

Please do provide a build that does not use NM or BM that can be used in competitive pvp matches and without staff. I am curious to see what other people’s ideas are.

WS is also required for core ranger because 2 of our best condition removal options is there. Which I think is one of the glaring problems for druid/core ranger.

You simply cannot afford to take any other trait other than Druidic Clarity if you do not take WS for removal.

StickerHappy.8052:

Shadelang.3012:

StickerHappy.8052:

LughLongArm.5460:

OGDeadHead.8326:

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

I don’t think runes, sigils or consumables should be taken into consideration when it comes to how often we should be able to use our specialization mechanic. Also, don’t forget CA is already gated by icd.

Why not? runes, sigils or consumables are part of the game and can be part of a build. Its another options if you decide not to go one of the options above which are not runes, sigils or consumables. the 10 sec icd is only to denay some builds that can abuse some of the CA traits every 5 sec wich is possible if you build for it.

CA mechanic is not perfect, but its not due to lack of options to regenerate AF.

SO you are telling me, you also have to limit your sigil choices?

You want me to get sigils that generate AF and kitten a build?

One of the biggest issues with PvP and even WvW to an extent atm is that many builds can dip there hands into every pot without making sacrifices. Many of the Elite specs themselves are examples of this. Druid in its current form has very few relative limitations yet it provides massive sustain and control covering the core rangers only weaknesses without significant sacrifice.

There has to be a draw back when taking druid. At the moment the variance in astral force gain between different druid builds is the only variant. Which is why druid is in nearly every top ranger build at this time.

Don’t act like making a minor investment in order to gain access to druids massively powerful effects that cover the core classes weaknesses is some kind of huge drawback. Its not. If anything. Taking druid should FORCEFULLY cost you significant damage output. Maybe then we would see an actual difference between builds.

But since it doesn’t you can use any number of methods to generate AF. There are almost a dozen methods I can think of off the top of my head that will fill your AF nearly on cooldown. And more that will still provide you a steady stream (though they won’t be as fast). Take any of them. And give something up in return. Having everything you could ever want in a build is a bad design philosophy.

Edit: Edited to be less obnoxious to read.

Please do provide a build that does not use NM or BM that can be used in competitive pvp matches and without staff.

WS is also required for core ranger because 2 of our best condition removal options is there. Which I think is one of the glaring problems for druid/core ranger.

You simply cannot afford to take any other trait other than Druidic Clarity if you do not take WS for removal.

That doesn’t mean we need to make AF more accessible. It means we need make the tools that AREN’T tied to druid comparable. Ive said it before and ill say it again. The more we balance under the assumption that druid is taken. The more druid becomes mandatory to get purely standard results. We don’t buff druid. We buff the OTHER playstyles so that maybe one day we can have more than one way to play this game at anything approaching a high level.

The dream for me would be having there be a significant difference when people say “Oh we need a ranger for this group” and “Oh we need a druid for this group” as it is there is only druid.

Editing rather than making another post: Instead of making druid more accessible for even MORE builds. We should make it so that the other builds don’t need druid to function at even a basic level of compotency.

Guess I’m at odds here. I would be fine with just an overall increase of 1% on damage (up from ¾%) and 2% on healing (up from 1½%). Everything else could remain the same, and the small % increase would have a greater impact and flexibility for DPS builds while retaining the favor towards gaining AF through support.

I would argue that Clarion Bond + Windborn Notes + Warhorn is a viable alternative (to staff, shouts, or healingspring) as well.

Razor.9872:

I would argue that Clarion Bond + Windborn Notes + Warhorn is a viable alternative (to staff, shouts, or healingspring) as well.

Still NM is required.

StickerHappy.8052:

Razor.9872:

I would argue that Clarion Bond + Windborn Notes + Warhorn is a viable alternative (to staff, shouts, or healingspring) as well.

Still NM is required.

If you could, what trait lines would you like to have (if NM or BM weren’t “required”)?

Razor.9872:

StickerHappy.8052:

Razor.9872:

I would argue that Clarion Bond + Windborn Notes + Warhorn is a viable alternative (to staff, shouts, or healingspring) as well.

Still NM is required.

If you could, what trait lines would you like to have (if NM or BM weren’t “required”)?

Skirm MM and WS.

StickerHappy.8052:

Shadelang.3012:

StickerHappy.8052:

LughLongArm.5460:

OGDeadHead.8326:

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

I don’t think runes, sigils or consumables should be taken into consideration when it comes to how often we should be able to use our specialization mechanic. Also, don’t forget CA is already gated by icd.

Why not? runes, sigils or consumables are part of the game and can be part of a build. Its another options if you decide not to go one of the options above which are not runes, sigils or consumables. the 10 sec icd is only to denay some builds that can abuse some of the CA traits every 5 sec wich is possible if you build for it.

CA mechanic is not perfect, but its not due to lack of options to regenerate AF.

SO you are telling me, you also have to limit your sigil choices?

You want me to get sigils that generate AF and kitten a build?

One of the biggest issues with PvP and even WvW to an extent atm is that many builds can dip there hands into every pot without making sacrifices. Many of the Elite specs themselves are examples of this. Druid in its current form has very few relative limitations yet it provides massive sustain and control covering the core rangers only weaknesses without significant sacrifice.

There has to be a draw back when taking druid. At the moment the variance in astral force gain between different druid builds is the only variant. Which is why druid is in nearly every top ranger build at this time.

Don’t act like making a minor investment in order to gain access to druids massively powerful effects that cover the core classes weaknesses is some kind of huge drawback. Its not. If anything. Taking druid should FORCEFULLY cost you significant damage output. Maybe then we would see an actual difference between builds.

But since it doesn’t you can use any number of methods to generate AF. There are almost a dozen methods I can think of off the top of my head that will fill your AF nearly on cooldown. And more that will still provide you a steady stream (though they won’t be as fast). Take any of them. And give something up in return. Having everything you could ever want in a build is a bad design philosophy.

Edit: Edited to be less obnoxious to read.

Please do provide a build that does not use NM or BM that can be used in competitive pvp matches and without staff. I am curious to see what other people’s ideas are.

WS is also required for core ranger because 2 of our best condition removal options is there. Which I think is one of the glaring problems for druid/core ranger.

You simply cannot afford to take any other trait other than Druidic Clarity if you do not take WS for removal.

If we are talking about top tier competitive pvp so we have like 2 possible builds, same as all other classess and thouse builds dont use BM/NM for the AF regen, they take it becuse they are the best traitlines beside druid. even a non druid build(ranger build) would use thouse 2 trait lines. If taking about playble builds(even in competetive pvp) you have lots of options outside of BM/NM. Condi builds that use WS/SKIRMISH/DRUID are out there. remorsless build using MM/WS/DRUID also exist. TU+fren hound = all the AF you can ask for, even without staff even when you 1v1.

LughLongArm.5460:

StickerHappy.8052:

Shadelang.3012:

StickerHappy.8052:

LughLongArm.5460:

OGDeadHead.8326:

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

I don’t think runes, sigils or consumables should be taken into consideration when it comes to how often we should be able to use our specialization mechanic. Also, don’t forget CA is already gated by icd.

Why not? runes, sigils or consumables are part of the game and can be part of a build. Its another options if you decide not to go one of the options above which are not runes, sigils or consumables. the 10 sec icd is only to denay some builds that can abuse some of the CA traits every 5 sec wich is possible if you build for it.

CA mechanic is not perfect, but its not due to lack of options to regenerate AF.

SO you are telling me, you also have to limit your sigil choices?

You want me to get sigils that generate AF and kitten a build?

One of the biggest issues with PvP and even WvW to an extent atm is that many builds can dip there hands into every pot without making sacrifices. Many of the Elite specs themselves are examples of this. Druid in its current form has very few relative limitations yet it provides massive sustain and control covering the core rangers only weaknesses without significant sacrifice.

There has to be a draw back when taking druid. At the moment the variance in astral force gain between different druid builds is the only variant. Which is why druid is in nearly every top ranger build at this time.

Don’t act like making a minor investment in order to gain access to druids massively powerful effects that cover the core classes weaknesses is some kind of huge drawback. Its not. If anything. Taking druid should FORCEFULLY cost you significant damage output. Maybe then we would see an actual difference between builds.

But since it doesn’t you can use any number of methods to generate AF. There are almost a dozen methods I can think of off the top of my head that will fill your AF nearly on cooldown. And more that will still provide you a steady stream (though they won’t be as fast). Take any of them. And give something up in return. Having everything you could ever want in a build is a bad design philosophy.

Edit: Edited to be less obnoxious to read.

Please do provide a build that does not use NM or BM that can be used in competitive pvp matches and without staff. I am curious to see what other people’s ideas are.

WS is also required for core ranger because 2 of our best condition removal options is there. Which I think is one of the glaring problems for druid/core ranger.

You simply cannot afford to take any other trait other than Druidic Clarity if you do not take WS for removal.

If we are talking about top tier competitive pvp so we have like 2 possible builds, same as all other classess and thouse builds dont use BM/NM for the AF regen, they take it becuse they are the best traitlines beside druid. even a non druid build(ranger build) would use thouse 2 trait lines. If taking about playble builds(even in competetive pvp) you have lots of options outside of BM/NM. Condi builds that use WS/SKIRMISH/DRUID are out there. remorsless build using MM/WS/DRUID also exist. TU+fren hound = all the AF you can ask for, even without staff even when you 1v1.

I do not know what 2 builds you are talking about

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Ranger

6/7 builds here use NM and BM. which utilize the regen on shouts (perma) + Staff. You cannot say that it is not used for AF, this is simply absurd. Regen plays majority of the AF part.

Regen on shouts also heal allies so I do not know why you wouldn’t think this alone do not generate a lot of AF.

Let’s see those builds and run untraited shouts and no staff. I wouldn’t think you will still gain AF reliably

StickerHappy.8052:

LughLongArm.5460:

StickerHappy.8052:

Shadelang.3012:

StickerHappy.8052:

LughLongArm.5460:

OGDeadHead.8326:

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

I don’t think runes, sigils or consumables should be taken into consideration when it comes to how often we should be able to use our specialization mechanic. Also, don’t forget CA is already gated by icd.

Why not? runes, sigils or consumables are part of the game and can be part of a build. Its another options if you decide not to go one of the options above which are not runes, sigils or consumables. the 10 sec icd is only to denay some builds that can abuse some of the CA traits every 5 sec wich is possible if you build for it.

CA mechanic is not perfect, but its not due to lack of options to regenerate AF.

SO you are telling me, you also have to limit your sigil choices?

You want me to get sigils that generate AF and kitten a build?

One of the biggest issues with PvP and even WvW to an extent atm is that many builds can dip there hands into every pot without making sacrifices. Many of the Elite specs themselves are examples of this. Druid in its current form has very few relative limitations yet it provides massive sustain and control covering the core rangers only weaknesses without significant sacrifice.

There has to be a draw back when taking druid. At the moment the variance in astral force gain between different druid builds is the only variant. Which is why druid is in nearly every top ranger build at this time.

Don’t act like making a minor investment in order to gain access to druids massively powerful effects that cover the core classes weaknesses is some kind of huge drawback. Its not. If anything. Taking druid should FORCEFULLY cost you significant damage output. Maybe then we would see an actual difference between builds.

But since it doesn’t you can use any number of methods to generate AF. There are almost a dozen methods I can think of off the top of my head that will fill your AF nearly on cooldown. And more that will still provide you a steady stream (though they won’t be as fast). Take any of them. And give something up in return. Having everything you could ever want in a build is a bad design philosophy.

Edit: Edited to be less obnoxious to read.

Please do provide a build that does not use NM or BM that can be used in competitive pvp matches and without staff. I am curious to see what other people’s ideas are.

WS is also required for core ranger because 2 of our best condition removal options is there. Which I think is one of the glaring problems for druid/core ranger.

You simply cannot afford to take any other trait other than Druidic Clarity if you do not take WS for removal.

If we are talking about top tier competitive pvp so we have like 2 possible builds, same as all other classess and thouse builds dont use BM/NM for the AF regen, they take it becuse they are the best traitlines beside druid. even a non druid build(ranger build) would use thouse 2 trait lines. If taking about playble builds(even in competetive pvp) you have lots of options outside of BM/NM. Condi builds that use WS/SKIRMISH/DRUID are out there. remorsless build using MM/WS/DRUID also exist. TU+fren hound = all the AF you can ask for, even without staff even when you 1v1.

I do not know what 2 builds you are talking about

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Ranger

6/7 builds here use NM and BM. which utilize the regen on shouts (perma) + Staff. There is no other reason for it, it is for the AF.

Let’s see those builds and run untraited shouts and no staff. I wouldn’t think you will still gain AF reliably

Our role in competitve pvp is to be a healer, ofc we we emphesise out ability to heal…………. players take staff becuse it pireces and give mobility and some defence and and good range undeflactble damage and heal…. AF is not that of a problem its a non issue, just try going survival build with TU, you wont be a healer but you will have enough AF regen for self sustain.

all vriation of the same build type, its the same with every meta build for every class, all will share atleast 2 tritlines.

In many cases, asking for strong AF generation without the dps loss of taking NM or BM is like asking for strong defensive countermeasures in addition to greater offensive application. From a balance standpoint, that is simply too powerful a combo.

CA form = strong defensive recovery + suppresive enemy pressure.

If you want the greater damage utility acquired from MM or SK, you will have to sacrifice the frequency to your access to CA form.

WS is slightly different, and I can’t put my finger on the exact reason it doesn’t synergize well with AF.

Razor.9872:

In many cases, asking for strong AF generation without the dps loss of taking NM or BM is like asking for strong defensive countermeasures in addition to greater offensive application. From a balance standpoint, that is simply too powerful a combo.

CA form = strong defensive recovery + suppresive enemy pressure.

If you want the greater damage utility acquired from MM or SK, you will have to sacrifice the frequency to your access to CA form.

WS is slightly different, and I can’t put my finger on the exact reason it doesn’t synergize well with AF.

But again, BM is mainly DPS. we all know that.

Here is the solution.

Let’s give other traitlines options to generate AF too?

so we could have X/X/Druid Builds other than NM or BM.

But leets first move EB out of WS.

StickerHappy.8052:

Razor.9872:

In many cases, asking for strong AF generation without the dps loss of taking NM or BM is like asking for strong defensive countermeasures in addition to greater offensive application. From a balance standpoint, that is simply too powerful a combo.

CA form = strong defensive recovery + suppresive enemy pressure.

If you want the greater damage utility acquired from MM or SK, you will have to sacrifice the frequency to your access to CA form.

WS is slightly different, and I can’t put my finger on the exact reason it doesn’t synergize well with AF.

But again, BM is mainly DPS. we all know that.

I would say otherwise. As it stands, the only offensive contributions from BM in the meta build is Zephyr’s Speed and the minor pet-buff traits (which are arguably just as defensive as offensive when it comes to the Ranger’s survivablity). BM is more hybrid if anything.

Both NM and BM offer offense and defense. Which is imo the main reason, why those 2 traitlines are meta.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Both NM and BM offer offense and defense. Which is imo the main reason, why those 2 traitlines are meta.

BM is the most reliable ticket to Astral Form, and Nature Magic is just the traitline that goes best with it. It offers durability and gives pets something they should have had baseline ever since release – boons you have. Plus it can be nicely abused via WHaO.
So technically yes. Both offense and defense.
Hands down, I never needed beast-mastery for DPS. I always used it for Resounding Timbre (I don’t remember when did I use other trait from the list).

Sure, traited shouts are one of the main reasons to take BM. But not only for druid. Best heal, best elite, decent utilities, pretty much every build benefits from those. I’m not saying, the regen for charging AF doesn’t play an important role – it obviousely does. But if another traitline would offer much more than BM, people would take it instead and find another way to charge AF.

I still think that the current way to gain AF is pretty stupid. A zerker build spreading some more or less useless regen gains more AF than a cleric druid healing the whole team for 4k with waterfield + staff 3. Doesn’t make much sense.
Making AF gain dependent on the actual amount of healing instead of healing ticks would solve this problem. Healing/support focused builds could still charge AF quite well, for other builds it would become harder. I would be fine with this, if non-druid build were viable, but i know many people hate the idea of focusing on healing to get the most out of druid.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Making AF gain dependent on the actual amount of healing instead of healing ticks would solve this problem.

As much as that has been stated, I don’t trust Anet enough to balance around that. It might cause more problems than solve it; especially since the change of generating AF only when healing an ally under 100% health.

Because at that point, healing a target – whether a player has 0 healing power or 1500 – means nothing if their target can only be healed for a minor amount due to being near full health (like 50hp away). Percentage-wise, how to balance healing 5 allies with 12k worth of heals vs 4k vs small regeneration ticks of 175.

As much as some people might not like the on heal/damage % system Anet has laid out, it works rather well for being simplified and exclusive to a single traitline. Just my 0.02 on this.

StickerHappy.8052:

Please do provide a build that does not use NM or BM that can be used in competitive pvp matches and without staff. I am curious to see what other people’s ideas are.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRjEqQLLWxCmsAVLW+DM4zac9u20vqB7glXXGIAUi0PD-TpBFABNcEAEvMgO7PQwFAghDBAAPAAA

Played this through legendary, that is competetive enough for the majority of people on this forum.

Lazze.9870:

StickerHappy.8052:

Please do provide a build that does not use NM or BM that can be used in competitive pvp matches and without staff. I am curious to see what other people’s ideas are.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRjEqQLLWxCmsAVLW+DM4zac9u20vqB7glXXGIAUi0PD-TpBFABNcEAEvMgO7PQwFAghDBAAPAAA

Played this through legendary, that is competetive enough for the majority of people on this forum.

Top tier power build, in some aspects i think its superior the shoutbow build, better condi defence and combat mobility. In condi meta this build is probably even better.
Also, TU+SOTW will regen AF as fast as the normal prema regen+natural healing, somtines even faster , as its not a boon which can stolen/corrupted. Great example.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Sure, traited shouts are one of the main reasons to take BM. But not only for druid. Best heal, best elite, decent utilities, pretty much every build benefits from those. I’m not saying, the regen for charging AF doesn’t play an important role – it obviousely does. But if another traitline would offer much more than BM, people would take it instead and find another way to charge AF.

I still think that the current way to gain AF is pretty stupid. A zerker build spreading some more or less useless regen gains more AF than a cleric druid healing the whole team for 4k with waterfield + staff 3. Doesn’t make much sense.
Making AF gain dependent on the actual amount of healing instead of healing ticks would solve this problem. Healing/support focused builds could still charge AF quite well, for other builds it would become harder. I would be fine with this, if non-druid build were viable, but i know many people hate the idea of focusing on healing to get the most out of druid.

^This
/15Charrzookas

Shout builds aren’t the only option, they are just the best and the easiest option.

With Staff and traited Glyphs, you can still generate astral force enough to get it back on cooldown.

Same with Survival skills.

BM/NM lets you maintain 9 might stacks and swiftness. That alone is more utility than most builds have. BM/MM does more damage on bursts. Sk/NM is probably the best overall support setup between ally and self support, though Sk/WS or NM/WS would be close.

The thing is, especially when it comes to PvP, there is just so much defense against rangers best weaponsets, that it shoehorns us into supporting and poking while passively building up our pets for pressure/bursts. Sidepoint denial Druid is arguably one of the better builds in PvP, but nobody runs it because it doesn’t carry teams.

Really, the current state of Druid has the potential for almost any combination of traitlines to be effective, it’s more that the current state of PvP forces Druid into what is considered the optimal build because it is the best performing build against the other metabuilds, but if those builds changed, it would actually allow for some breathing room for other builds that are more offense oriented to step up.