Guild Wars 2

In it’s current state, shouts are very lackluster.
Truth be told, they do not feel like worthwhile build-utilities at all.

When I was playing them they resembled like enhancements to current F1 and F3 abilities. In fact, I had to stop controlling my pet because I would have cancelled these abilities. In their current functionality, only Sick’Em and Protect me feel like real skills.
Guard is nothing but a Resounding Timbre trigger, Search & Rescue has way too long CD and Shout Build doesn’t really feel like fulfilling any role in particular since every build can do what Shout build does.

(I’d like to thank Wondrouswall.7169 for his Resounding Timbre boon idea that I tried to improve)
Proposed Changes:

• Sick’Em – Reveals your target and your pet’s damage is increased (40%)(6 sec). You and your pet receive Super Speed (4sec)
  Guard – Grants stealth <edit:to your pet> and protection (3sec) to you and your pet (5sec). Your pet’s next attack applies cripple. (Position Mechanic changed in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Change-Required-Pet-Management/)
  Protect Me – Instead of Attacking, your pet will grant you Aegis (10sec) and absorb all direct damage you would take for 6 seconds
  Search & Rescue – Your pet tries to revive the closest downed ally and grants you stability (5stacks) (6sec).
  Heal as One – Heals you and your pet. You gain regeneration (10sec).

• Resounding Timbre – Shouts now grant swiftness and their buffs affect 5 players. Shout recharge reduced.
  (Fury shared for Strength of the Pack)

Shouts are currently in a weak spot, and having them improved in this way sounds like a good idea. They would promote pet management (which is a high-skill cap with shouts) and would make pets something else than F2 trigger in PvP.
These changes would affect Guard Regen spamming builds but I believe few players sill run this build and we are already overcapped on regen via various sources. Game-play of spamming a utility skill for regen is a bad design and shout builds had more survivability glued with proposed changes as a compensation.

I didn’t use Quickness as a sharing buff for SotP because that would clearly push Companion’s Might out of the question. Shouts should be a utility support oriented spells and we need to take the fact that this is a low-tier trait.
Super Speed used on Sick’Em is what I’m especially proud of. This mechanic would make Rangers wanted in PvP with shouts since it’s the only counter against Stealthers (thieves and mesmers) and would provide a valuable utility skill – super speed for party (we sacrifice Blind spam for this = fair). Mobility in PvP is needed – and Ranger has access to almost none. Plus, super speed doesn’t give Rangers any access to port mechanics but is exactly the sort of escape that fit their Archetype. Plus it wouldn’t be OP because Quickening Zephyr does exactly that and is a Stun Breaker. I made sure to only bring it to the same level.
With this change – Rangers would finally have a clear role in PvP – anti-Stealth fighters (because Sick’Em would finally become a viable choice) and might appear in competitive as a counter to stealth mechanic even though they lack everything else needed for that environment.

Another +1 from me. Not sure what’s happened to you though. That’s 4 solid threads of proposed changes within the day. How much coffee did you have? Haha!

Wondrouswall.7169:

Another +1 from me. Not sure what’s happened to you though. That’s 4 solid threads of proposed changes within the day. How much coffee did you have? Haha!

Well, that kind of happened. Lots.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Guard – Grants stealth and protection (3sec) to you and your pet (5sec). Your pet’s next attack applies cripple. (Position Mechanic changed in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Change-Required-Pet-Management/)

They would promote pet management (which is a high-skill cap with shouts) […]

I am not sure to understand, so if Guard stealth you and your pet :

Stealthing both you and your pet with PBS and Guard requires a good timing, call it “high-skill” cap if you want and can be very rewarding while fighting an another player. Now, explain how stealthing you and your pet with only one skill is a higher skill cap ? (even with your new F5 wich is not needed for the said purpose)

Tragic Positive.9356:

These changes would affect Guard Regen spamming builds but I believe few players sill run this build and we are already overcapped on regen via various sources. Game-play of spamming a utility skill for regen is a bad design and shout builds had more survivability glued with proposed changes as a compensation.

You would still able to be perma regen using HAO with traits. What about “spamming” stealth for you and your pet every 9 sec ? Is this the skilled gameplay you’re talking about ?

If not, do you make Guard a better shout by reducing half the stealth and protection uptime time on the pet, giving him a poor cripple on the next attack, to gain 5 sec of protection ? I don’t think so.

Borya ^ makes a lot of redundant and menial points, would advise OP ignores them for the sake of keeping a useful thread on track.

Having Resounding Timbre sharing boons dependent on what shout you have been using is something I’ve been advocating for a long time. Every trait and rune in this game related to shouts is support oriented, the ranger shouts just happen to be a kitten attempt at being some sort of pet commands.

Bryzy.2719:

Borya ^ makes a lot of redundant and menial points, would advise OP ignores them for the sake of keeping a useful thread on track.

The OP is able to know what he has to do or not. I am discussing and asking questions, mostly about something that is not clear to me. Who do you think you are ?

Strengh of the Pack is a lasting effect, I think each shout should be redesigned to function like it (boons reapplied in intervals, pet buffing the Ranger, Ranger buffing the pet)

borya.2964:

Bryzy.2719:

Borya ^ makes a lot of redundant and menial points, would advise OP ignores them for the sake of keeping a useful thread on track.

The OP is able to know what he has to do or not. I am discussing and asking questions, mostly about something that is not clear to me. Who do you think you are ?

I am someone who will argue against drivel when he sees it. How about asking questions relating to the logistics of OP’s proposals rather than asking things about secondary non-issues? I am not replying to you any further for the sake of keeping this thread on track.

Bryzy.2719:

borya.2964:

Bryzy.2719:

Borya ^ makes a lot of redundant and menial points, would advise OP ignores them for the sake of keeping a useful thread on track.

The OP is able to know what he has to do or not. I am discussing and asking questions, mostly about something that is not clear to me. Who do you think you are ?

I am someone who will argue against drivel when he sees it. How about asking questions relating to the logistics of OP’s proposals rather than asking things about secondary non-issues? I am not replying to you any further for the sake of keeping this thread on track.

Good, cuz you’re the only one who want to derail the thread so far.

I don’t really like Aegis on “PM!” tbh.

I feel that it should grant 6s Retaliation for both you and the pet and 6s Protection for the pet as well as its current functionality. Protection for the Protect in PM and the Retaliation x 2 to punish someone who continues to attack the Ranger. If taken with RT, it would be a very good skill then and live on everyone’s bar when taking BM.

borya.2964:

Bryzy.2719:

Borya ^ makes a lot of redundant and menial points, would advise OP ignores them for the sake of keeping a useful thread on track.

The OP is able to know what he has to do or not. I am discussing and asking questions, mostly about something that is not clear to me. Who do you think you are ?

Borya is absolutely correctly on the right track here. I misspelled, or rather, said something completely different I wanted to say.
I’ll be correcting myself in a second.

EDIT:
The highlighted buffs were the ones meant to be shared. The stealth from Guard was supposed to keep only the pet.
All the changes I made I tried to keep their current functionality but make them more appealing and rewarding to be picked.

@Heimskarl
I agree on your point. I was mentioning exactly that some time ago but for these changes I didn’t really find it fitting thematically. Retaliation does not really protect you. It would be an amazing tool, but that we could achieve with off-hand Axe, too.
My points were strictly improving the former ideas of these skills without adding other uses.
For example, Sick’Em makes it harder for your enemy to escape from your pet, so handing it to ranger as well does not really change the goal or purpose of the skill.
Making Protect me a spiky armor – however – would. Aegis would actually protect you and your partners, which is still the same purpose, that’s why I went with that one.

I like these changes. +1

Soldier/trooper runes will thank you as well, haha.

Rediculous changes. Tacking on boons is not a fix, its a band aid.

The shouts should be focused on interesting mechanics, which they are, but they just need some adjustment.

The single good suggestion was “Guard” giving pet’s next attack cripple.

“Protect Me” should just drop the dmg immunity. For 10sec each foe that hits you is taunted by your pet for 2sec (10sec cd). 60sec cd.

“Search and Rescue” will be tough to ever put on a skill bar so long as its found on a trait. No matter how you buff the skill it will only buff the trait.

“Sic em” if you buff this at all its going to be problems unless you nerf the Reveal duration. It really could get a rework. Pet does a rushing(1200?)attack(modest dmg)to target area that does a 4sec aoe (240?) Reveal and applies 10vulnerability, if it strikes. Reveal increased by 1sec per foe struck.

I like the ideas that the shouts should have some effect on the ranger also.

I like the idea of taunt on protect me, as posted by Justine above.

tbh they should just revamp shouts in general, the effects are bad and outdated.

the only decent shouts are (because originally they weren’t even shouts..) are the heal and the elite when traited for reg + cd reduction and swiftness.

protect me is a worse, capture point preventing version of signet of stone, guard me is completely useless and usually just a troll pick to have perm regen, search and rescue should be a trait only and not a shout, sic em could easily be turned into aoe might + fury or something more interesting (i admit that it’s the best legacy shout though).

another thing is that survival skills are just better in every aspect. condi cleanse? survival skills cleanse 2 and give you fury. if you want condi cleanse from shouts you need to pick the runes for it + the trait to make them worthwile.

I agree with Jekkt that the shouts need to be redesigned from the ground-up, except Heal as One and Rampage as One (don’t care for the new name) since they weren’t shouts initially.

I will say that TP’s suggestions are more along the lines of adding more to the shouts while staying within Anet’s vision of how they thematically designed them. Shouts are turds anyway, and unless they are going to be redesigned, they might as well be polished turds. It’s the best we can hope for.

OGDeadHead.8326:

I like the ideas that the shouts should have some effect on the ranger also.

I like the idea of taunt on protect me, as posted by Justine above.

I tagged onto the Protect Me Taunt train (not sure if I saw it or suggested it back then, probably the former) when it was up to date. And I am still the highest fan of that idea possible.

The problem is:
I’m just being absolutely realistic here, knowing what sounds like a real possibility for changes. Completely redesigning an ability is out of the question. We are Rangers, remember? Arena-Net believes Invigorating Bond is a useful GrandMaster trait that most likely competes with Mesmer’s Mantra Healing (adept).
Anything that involves more work than tweaks is out of the question.

I like the change to Sic Em although I would like to see pet stats brought up at least in pve or increase the dps burst from a skill like this to 50-75%. this would synergize well with quickness on swap or QZ and give ranger some burst potential.

I don’t care for the change to Guard, cripple is fairly weak in pvp, maybe 3s weakness on attack or something. also I don’t think we need anymore one time use skills. a short cripple on a long cd wouldn’t get used anymore than it does now.

Protect Me – Aegis is unnecessary, the pet should be able to absorb all damage for a few seconds and not die. unless your running a squishy pet and then you expect it.

Search & Rescue – This shouldn’t have any added effect but it would be nice if it wouldn’t go on cooldown if the pet can’t find someone to heal.

Heal as One – resistance please

Resounding Timbre – I really like this change

Prophet.1584:

Heal as One – resistance please

Yeah resistence would be good change. Anyone using a “pet takes x conditions from you every x seconds” skill/trait would benefit greatly from this.

In fact if they went the boon route they could redo the shout trait.

Trait, each shout now adds a unique boon. Tailor the boon choice to the shout. Ofcoarse I would remove the swift/regeneration from all shouts.

IMO, Protect me should grant RETAL and RESISTANCE to the pet for 6 seconds, then absorb all damage from the ranger. Then it would be worth taking.

Justine.6351:

Prophet.1584:

Heal as One – resistance please

Yeah resistence would be good change. Anyone using a “pet takes x conditions from you every x seconds” skill/trait would benefit greatly from this.

In fact if they went the boon route they could redo the shout trait.

Trait, each shout now adds a unique boon. Tailor the boon choice to the shout. Ofcoarse I would remove the swift/regeneration from all shouts.

I believe resistance is a boon too unique and powerful to be paired onto our 16 sec ability. If you see this from Developers perspective – it would tip the balance of the class by far.
The condition problem of the pet I tried to address with Pet Stow option. None of the Pet Problems stayed unaddressed with my Change Required topics, I believe.

I also tried to keep possibilities of Perma Regen builds (that people still might consider) with Heal as One and I avoided adding any overpowered mechanics to places that could be considered powerful or overpowered.
The changes I’m mentioning are all realistic changes that might end up considered by developer teams without any negative reactions. You can tell that Resistance on 16 second cooldown would be instantly blown by the community saying how OP it is.

warrior healing signet is 16sec cd(traited) with 6sec resilience. And that resilience is part of the signet, not trait tied.

In combat pet stow is not a fix, its another band aid. This is putting it politely.

Justine.6351:

warrior healing signet is 16sec cd(traited) with 6sec resilience. And that resilience is part of the signet, not trait tied.

In combat pet stow is not a fix, its another band aid. This is putting it politely.

You can’t compare classes’ abilities. Warrior’s healing abilities shouldn’t be the very same as Ranger’s. The classes work different and so does their abilities. The signet itself provides 1/3 heal of the Rangers. That argument is not really valid.

About the band aid… Well, every single Change Required topic proposes a band aid. That’s why the changes are required. Because the live versions are awful.

Justine.6351:

Rediculous changes…

I really wish people were tactful.

Justine.6351:

…In combat pet stow is not a fix, its another band aid. This is putting it politely.

Care to provide changes or suggestions that are not band-aides then? As for boons being a band-aide… They are a major part of the game and the main reason certain classes are considered OP or Meta.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Justine.6351:

Rediculous changes…

I really wish people were tactful.

Justine.6351:

…In combat pet stow is not a fix, its another band aid. This is putting it politely.

Care to provide changes or suggestions that are not band-aides then? Boons are a major part of the game and the main reason certain classes are considered OP or Meta.

I did suggest. Not giving all shouts baseline boons. Give them unique mechanics and then add boons to a trait affecting shouts.

Traits/boons should add to a skill, not make it viable. If the addition of a boon is what makes it viable then the skill is likely trash in the first place.

Justine.6351:

I did suggest. Not giving all shouts baseline boons. Give them unique mechanics and then add boons to a trait affecting shouts.

Traits/boons should add to a skill, not make it viable. If the addition of a boon is what makes it viable then the skill is likely trash in the first place.

Sir, with all due respect, you have no idea how Ranger development here works. If you want a class with completely different spells – play a different class.

That’s all there is to it. For the rest of us – will to find a realistic way to improve Ranger viability/versatility or usable build variety is important.
We didn’t come here to mock people for having realistic ideas like you do. Believing that 3 our utility skills will become something completely different is blindfolded.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Justine.6351:

I did suggest. Not giving all shouts baseline boons. Give them unique mechanics and then add boons to a trait affecting shouts.

Traits/boons should add to a skill, not make it viable. If the addition of a boon is what makes it viable then the skill is likely trash in the first place.

Sir, with all due respect, you have no idea how Ranger development here works. If you want a class with completely different spells – play a different class.

That’s all there is to it. For the rest of us – will to find a realistic way to improve Ranger viability/versatility or usable build variety is important.
We didn’t come here to mock people for having realistic ideas like you do. Believing that 3 our utility skills will become something completely different is blindfolded.

ok

Justine.6351:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Justine.6351:

Rediculous changes…

I really wish people were tactful.

Justine.6351:

…In combat pet stow is not a fix, its another band aid. This is putting it politely.

Care to provide changes or suggestions that are not band-aides then? Boons are a major part of the game and the main reason certain classes are considered OP or Meta.

I did suggest. Not giving all shouts baseline boons. Give them unique mechanics and then add boons to a trait affecting shouts.

Traits/boons should add to a skill, not make it viable. If the addition of a boon is what makes it viable then the skill is likely trash in the first place.

How would you fix pets ruining skipping or agroing things or being 1 shot because they cannot get out of the way of certain AoEs then? A perma stow is the perfect fix for that, not a Band-Aid. I cannot think of another option that would not end up being OP.

Anyway, what is it about +40% more damage and +40% faster run speed that is not unique and non-viable? What would RaO be without boons? Non-viable. Remember how HaO was non-viable before it was made a shout?

Adding boons to the shouts adds to the skills. I would like to see your suggestions for boon-less shouts for Ranger that are “viable” as you said.

To be honest the shout effects should be shared baseline. It’s not like even those effects you proposed are that great in PvE for the single player.

I don’t think the player needs super speed on sick em. I think a shout that increases critical damage for 5 players by 20% for 10-15 seconds is more appropriate (for reference, assassin’s presence from revenant is a 100% uptime 10% crit damage bonus aura).

I think Guard should give 4-5 seconds of protection instead and apply aegis on use.

Search & Rescue should be reverted to its old form of working on defeated players. It was used then, it is never used now.

I will quote myself from more than month ago:

Rym.1469:

I really enjoyed playing Beastmastery after the patch.

From me, couple things:

1. Fortifying Bond should’ve been baseline or as one of Beastmastery minors. It’s incredibly important for any build with Pet as Damage role in mind. To achieve really good BM build, we need 4 traitlines together.

2. I haven’t tested if all the bugs with “Sic’ Em” were adressed in the patch, yet to see it for myself, but in case they weren’t, that needs fixing. Shout itself could use some love, like small CDR.

3. “Protect Me!” should keep it’s cooldown, apply Protection and Ranger should just gain bonus health equivalent of Pet’s max health for the period of Shout, similar to how Plague adds health.

4. “Guard!” and “Search and Rescue!” need to be changed:

1) Shout similar to this one – “Enraged Lunge”: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Enraged_Lunge_.

Shout. Immobilize the foe (1s) and apply Might (5s). Your pet’s next successful strike removes 1 condition and does +25% damage for each of your recharging shouts.

2) Shout similar to this one – “I Will Avenge You!”:
http://tinyurl.com/pyudhgo – in memory of W/R

“Shout. Apply Quickness (3s), Protection (3s) to your allies and Slow (2s) to foes for each downed ally within the range. Ressurect your Pet. If your Pet was ressurected, this Shout recharges 50% faster.”

As a bonus:

“Sic ’Em!” – As stated above, possibly small Cooldown reduction (35s untraited?) and 40% bonus speed simply turned into superspeed.

Enraged Lunge-like skill described above could alternatively be ground-targeted attack with long-range Leap for pet instead of “on next attack” effect, probably with it’s own damage scalling from Player or Pet.

Heal as One and Ramp..Strenght of the Pack are absolutely nuts already and don’t need any more changes.

Well, if I believed there is a chance our shouts would become useful, I’d definitely go with my former list of Shout Changes that were:

• Search & Rescue: Your pet looks for the closest downed ally and brings him to you trying to revive him. 85 sec CD.
• Guard: Your pet guards an area. If an enemy enters this area, your pet will blink to the target and apply blind and cripple. Your pet gains stealth and protection. 15 sec CD.
• Protect Me: Your pet actively protects you from harm, taunting (2 sec) any foe that hits you for next 6 seconds. 3 sec ICD. 60 sec CD.
• Sick’Em: No change except movement converted into Super Speed.

Shouts have never been designed to especially neither give boons nor to be support skills, this is even more obvious with the Reaper and Tempest. Shouts are mostly useful when traited and often, so far, with a specific set of runes. Ranger’s shouts have a purpose, but some doesn’t work.

Guard for example have 2 functions, 3 when traited: pet management, pet survivability and boons (swiftness and regen) in a short CD. Whether some people like it or not, the skill works. Period. When I sometime see some rangers complaining about pet management or ranger’s mobility while I am perma speed with a strong pet all in one utility without to lose anything I need (power ranger roamer), I seriously doubt about the way some players think about the class.

The new F5 is not a bad idea, actually it’s a good one. Problem is that Guard lose all the purpose, you lose pet management, you lose pet survivability (stealth and protection are greatly decreased). Grant 5 sec of protection to the ranger have literally no purpose.

Tragic Positive.9356:

• Guard: Your pet guards an area. If an enemy enters this area, your pet will blink to the target and apply blind and cripple. Your pet gains stealth and protection. 15 sec CD.

That’s the kind of changes Shouts need and i like it. We really need few things to make them better or work, larger issues are tied to our core mechanic anyways.

Shadowstep on a “Sic Em!” is what is needed, like Strike as One from GW1. They addressed the issue of pets not being able to catch players 7 years ago. Add a shadowstep and the super speed too.

What about :

“Sick ’Em!” : Your pet gain Super Speed, rushes at your foe, reaveling them and dealing more damage.

- your next attack knock down your foe, or
- your next attack immobilize your foe, or
- Your next attack chill your foe

Guard could use a knockdown component imho, and Sic’em would be good with shadowstep like Heimskarl said. I also would drop the reveal from the skill in exchange for a 0,5 – 1 second stun.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Guard could use a knockdown component imho, and Sic’em would be good with shadowstep like Heimskarl said. I also would drop the reveal from the skill in exchange for a 0,5 – 1 second stun.

Nope. That reveal is clutch when dealing with troll dire PU mesmers.

Puck.9612:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Guard could use a knockdown component imho, and Sic’em would be good with shadowstep like Heimskarl said. I also would drop the reveal from the skill in exchange for a 0,5 – 1 second stun.

Nope. That reveal is clutch when dealing with troll dire PU mesmers.

Would an aoe, non targeted reveal be too op? 600 range?

I still don’t think the reveal is necessary on this shout. A far more interesting mechanic would be for the pets to be able to keep attacking foes that are currently in stealth. Also, by doing that, Anet could buff the skill in other ways, like adding shadowstep, knockdown, duration, whatever.

well actually imo the biggest issue of rangers shouts is that they’re not actually shouts even when labeled as shouts.

why?

Shouts from the beginning by default did not required any animation by themselves and coul be casted always – whenever in the middle of channeled skill or knocked down – as far as I can tell only protect me and search and rescue – 2 out of 6 ranger shouts works so – any other requires animation that breaks casting of current skills (oh and maybe sick ‘em but I’m not sure right now if it wasn’t using the same animation as guard)

Lord Trejgon.2809:

well actually imo the biggest issue of rangers shouts is that they’re not actually shouts even when labeled as shouts.

why?

Shouts from the beginning by default did not required any animation by themselves and coul be casted always – whenever in the middle of channeled skill or knocked down – as far as I can tell only protect me and search and rescue – 2 out of 6 ranger shouts works so – any other requires animation that breaks casting of current skills (oh and maybe sick ‘em but I’m not sure right now if it wasn’t using the same animation as guard)

They also still don’t affect your allies when using trooper runes. GG anet.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Puck.9612:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Guard could use a knockdown component imho, and Sic’em would be good with shadowstep like Heimskarl said. I also would drop the reveal from the skill in exchange for a 0,5 – 1 second stun.

Nope. That reveal is clutch when dealing with troll dire PU mesmers.

Would an aoe, non targeted reveal be too op? 600 range?

I always thought that’s how it should have worked. Give us a counter to that 10 second mass invis or when they drop shadow refuge to power rez.

Puck.9612:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Puck.9612:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Guard could use a knockdown component imho, and Sic’em would be good with shadowstep like Heimskarl said. I also would drop the reveal from the skill in exchange for a 0,5 – 1 second stun.

Nope. That reveal is clutch when dealing with troll dire PU mesmers.

Would an aoe, non targeted reveal be too op? 600 range?

I always thought that’s how it should have worked. Give us a counter to that 10 second mass invis or when they drop shadow refuge to power rez.

I did originally want an AoE reveal, but thought having it on a shout may be OP. Then I thought why not make it a pet F2? A Bat pet with “Echo Locate” F2 that is an AoE reveal.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Puck.9612:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Puck.9612:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Guard could use a knockdown component imho, and Sic’em would be good with shadowstep like Heimskarl said. I also would drop the reveal from the skill in exchange for a 0,5 – 1 second stun.

Nope. That reveal is clutch when dealing with troll dire PU mesmers.

Would an aoe, non targeted reveal be too op? 600 range?

I always thought that’s how it should have worked. Give us a counter to that 10 second mass invis or when they drop shadow refuge to power rez.

I did originally want an AoE reveal, but thought having it on a shout may be OP. Then I thought why not make it a pet F2? A Bat pet with “Echo Locate” F2 that is an AoE reveal.

I’m pretty sure I asked for that exact thing a few years ago but pets are just too unreliable. Even if you micromanage the hell out of it you still get pathing issues, and I occasionally still get the issue (mainly in WvW) where my pet will decide to auto target and run towards an enemy to use its f2 instead of using it on the spot or on the enemy I have selected.

Puck.9612:

They also still don’t affect your allies when using trooper runes. GG anet.

well technically trooper rune set bonus says that shout remove conditions from AFFECTED allies – and since there is no ally beside you and your pet affected in the first place…..

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Puck.9612:

They also still don’t affect your allies when using trooper runes. GG anet.

well technically trooper rune set bonus says that shout remove conditions from AFFECTED allies – and since there is no ally beside you and your pet affected in the first place…..

Then technically Ranger isn’t affected either.
Guard and Sick’Em only affect your pet.

I really believe making them scale as a result of Resounding Timbre is only logical in terms of balance.

Puck.9612:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Puck.9612:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Puck.9612:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Guard could use a knockdown component imho, and Sic’em would be good with shadowstep like Heimskarl said. I also would drop the reveal from the skill in exchange for a 0,5 – 1 second stun.

Nope. That reveal is clutch when dealing with troll dire PU mesmers.

Would an aoe, non targeted reveal be too op? 600 range?

I always thought that’s how it should have worked. Give us a counter to that 10 second mass invis or when they drop shadow refuge to power rez.

I did originally want an AoE reveal, but thought having it on a shout may be OP. Then I thought why not make it a pet F2? A Bat pet with “Echo Locate” F2 that is an AoE reveal.

I’m pretty sure I asked for that exact thing a few years ago but pets are just too unreliable. Even if you micromanage the hell out of it you still get pathing issues, and I occasionally still get the issue (mainly in WvW) where my pet will decide to auto target and run towards an enemy to use its f2 instead of using it on the spot or on the enemy I have selected.

Maybe it’s time to introduce ground-targeted F2?

Me using a shout build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj00lmH4ZHY
Hardly seems lackluster. Just watch those green numbers.
If you want to talk about bad shouts try using the necro ones. I been begging for them to just atleast give the necro shout trait something usefull like regen and swiftness from ranger.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Me using a shout build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj00lmH4ZHY
Hardly seems lackluster. Just watch those green numbers.
If you want to talk about bad shouts try using the necro ones. I been begging for them to just atleast give the necro shout trait something usefull like regen and swiftness from ranger.

Blocked for copyright, dude.

Still, seeing green numbers for 280 will aesthetically be the very same way as seeing them for 130 (you only see the visuals of the color, for the efficiency or amount you have to use logic and calculations).

Do you have any idea about numbers you see as a Necro with Leeching Trait using Shroud skills #4 #5 ?
Let’s get real with this one.

Ok lets use logic and calculations. With the build editor using cleric gear its easy to get 350 hp per second regen and 175 hp per second from singet of the wild. Thats 525 healing per second to mysef. The regen can hit 5 total targets for a total of 1925 total healing per second mostly all from shouts. The heal skill alone on 16 second cd is another 482.5 healing per second in spvp. There is the calculations. Now for the logic your always gonna be have regen on yourself and singet of the wild and your gonna hit allies often with the regen. Your removing up to 5 condis every time you use a shout which some have very short cool downs.

Now for necro transfusion can do a decent spike heal of like 5k to up to 5 targets. Thats 25k healing on a 34 second cd or 734.29 healing per second if and only if you hit all 5 targets. All other life stealing traits like soul eater or vampric presence are garbage and dont heal for crap. There really isnt even a comparison here.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Ok lets use logic and calculations. With the build editor using cleric gear its easy to get 350 hp per second regen and 175 hp per second from singet of the wild. Thats 525 healing per second to mysef. The regen can hit 5 total targets for a total of 2625 total healing per second. There is the calculations. Now for the logic your always gonna be have regen on yourself and singet of the wild and your gonna hit allies often with the regen. Your removing up to 5 condis every time you use a shout which some have very short cool downs.

Now for necro transfusion can do a decent spike heal of like 5k to up to 5 targets. Thats 25k healing on a 34 second cd or 734.29 healing per second if and only if you hit all 5 targets. All other life stealing traits like soul eater or vampric presence are garbage and dont heal for crap. There really isnt even a comparison here.

Trooper runes only remove condi’s from you and your pet on rangers, and of you’re running full clerics your damage will be terrible.