Guild Wars 2

Ashrynn Grimm.8125:

Engineer QQing because they got spanked by a Power Ranger.

That said, if Rangers were fixed across the board or we just broke all the other classes so they are as poor as Rangers then I’d be happy to nerf Rapid Fire.

Until then WvW for more QQ!

Not to mention Engi is actually one of the best counters to ranger, right next to defensive condition necro, Knight set Warrior (Armor 3300+ high damage too), and perplex condition thief.

They have higher mobility than ranger, lots of block, and numerous condition to melt ranger down. Also their conditions are completely unaffected by the range, so they can go as close to ranger as possible.

Toxsa.2701:

Ashrynn Grimm.8125:

Engineer QQing because they got spanked by a Power Ranger.

That said, if Rangers were fixed across the board or we just broke all the other classes so they are as poor as Rangers then I’d be happy to nerf Rapid Fire.

Until then WvW for more QQ!

Not to mention Engi is actually one of the best counters to ranger, right next to defensive condition necro, Knight set Warrior (Armor 3300+ high damage too), and perplex condition thief.

They have higher mobility than ranger, lots of block, and numerous condition to melt ranger down. Also their conditions are completely unaffected by the range, so they can go as close to ranger as possible.

I’m just getting back into the game and the class has mostly gimmicky things in WvW or PvP from the Power Ranger to those Perma Chillers. The most effective spec seems to be SB/? with a focus on pure condition burst, but even that has some pretty hard counters to get past and most matches are very long – even then you are subpar to your other party members and are mostly there for back-up and support.

Engineers are one of the best counters to any Ranger and absolutely stomp and kitten on the class. Comparison wise we’re a joke – our ranged is inferior, our spirits to their turrets are a paper dolls and our pet system is very weak in most environments.

The fact that this was an Engineer coming here to complain is what made this whole thing so enjoyable to read. The only fun I see for a Ranger right now is to go Power Ranger and incite fits and rampages of QQ because they don’t have the skill to deal with one EASILY avoidable ability.

Apparently it isn’t that easy to avoid because these threads pop up almost daily. The only thing that happens next is you get infractions when you call them on their bull kitten.

Crapgame.6519:

Apparently it isn’t that easy to avoid because these threads pop up almost daily. The only thing that happens next is you get infractions when you call them on their bull kitten.

It’s very hard to avoid if you don’t know basic Stealth mechanics, how to use block/evasions or if you blew all your defensive CDs earlier and only use Zerk gear.

Basically if you played like a chump and got chumped then you come to the forums to QQ.

Rapid fire is blockable…

/closethread

Atherakhia.4086:

100b does like 40-45% more damage than Rapid Fire base. So really not sure what you’re going on about.

Not nearly as easy to hit as rapid fire. Face it this skill is broken, and I say this as a main ranger in wvw.

• Block it
• Reflect it
• Interrupt it
• LOS it

Plenty of options.
It’s just a great counter against a combination of:

• Taking no defensive abilities.
• Poor positioning.
• Being squishy.

Man OP your tears

At the risk of more trolling and toxicity:

yes, there are ways to counter RF: Dodging, blocking, interrupting or reflecting. However, the very short cooldown of RF in comparison to all these abilities on nearly every class means that you will be able to counter the first RF, but the second one is much more difficult. Not to mention that you have to dodge twice in order to avoid the entire RF, depleting all your energy.

If I’ve said it once here, I’v said it a thousand times: I personally do not have a huge problem with Rangers. The scenario I originally posted was an example of what the class is capable of, and not a situation that occurs with any sort of consistency for me personally. This is not a “QQ rangers OP nerf now pls!!!!!” thread. It was meant to attempt and have a mature discussion about an imbalance in the ranger class which I personally observed. Some of you rose to that challenge and provided well rounded and level minded feedback to respectfully disagree with me. Most of you did not, and only proved that the ranger community is the most toxic community in this game.

Gern, you are not trolling or adding to the toxicity.

I just think a majority of the players disagree. Well, those of us not on the receiving end of it anyway. Then again, I get my fair share of Rapid Fire from the opposing rangers.

Personally I feel it is a learning issue when there are so many ways to mitigate the damage. Not only by dodging twice but by making choices. The ranger has to make choices to increase the range and damage. Not only that, but also decide if they are going full power with berserker stats. By making that choice they leave very little room for defensive stats and abilities. This is the hard truth 90% of the people starting these types of threads don’t get and why we get so frustrated. No, we don’t have a 6/6/6/6/6 build This also isn’t unique to the Ranger class. I know without a doubt I have the same decisions on my Guardian when I trait / gear for DPS.

Mature discussion has been attempted by explaining to the OP that something simple as a double tap (not killing any zombies here mind you, but avoiding rapid fire contact) will do wonders. We can not help when the ranger gets first strike but we all know for a fact that said player won’t go down by the initial hit. Won’t happen by a single ranger. Two rangers, assisting, sure.

Again, I’m all for discussion. But when it is one sided and feels like I am beating my head against the wall it is really time to just stop. Not toxic. I think I’d leave it with this:

1. Would you agree that dodge is a major component of the game?
2. Would you agree that in order to increase range and damage for Rapid Fire we have to use traits?
3. Would you agree that if we go berserker / power that we have less defense?
4. Would you agree that rapid fire by itself won’t kill you, even if upticked in WvW?
5. Would you agree that you can line of sight it the damage?
6. Would you agree that you can reflect it (certain classes) or retaliate it (certain classes)?

By you, it isn’t you per say just a general conversation because I believe you personally are aware of all six items.

Gern.2978:

At the risk of more trolling and toxicity:

yes, there are ways to counter RF: Dodging, blocking, interrupting or reflecting.

Wait… so rapid fire can be blocked!?

Gern.2978:

However, the very short cooldown of RF in comparison to all these abilities on nearly every class means that you will be able to counter the first RF, but the second one is much more difficult. Not to mention that you have to dodge twice in order to avoid the entire RF, depleting all your energy.

I know right? It’s such bullkitten you can’t completely negate a ranger’s damage. I know that with every other class I can block every one of their hard hitting skills for a good 5 minutes before I run out of counters… longbow rangers are just god mode with that 1 “burst” skill that takes 2.5 seconds to deliver its full damage.

Gern.2978:

If I’ve said it once here, I’v said it a thousand times: I personally do not have a huge problem with Rangers. The scenario I originally posted was an example of what the class is capable of, and not a situation that occurs with any sort of consistency for me personally. This is not a “QQ rangers OP nerf now pls!!!!!” thread. It was meant to attempt and have a mature discussion about an imbalance in the ranger class which I personally observed. Some of you rose to that challenge and provided well rounded and level minded feedback to respectfully disagree with me. Most of you did not, and only proved that the ranger community is the most toxic community in this game.

I mean I think it was pretty clear in your opening post that you don’t have a problem with rangers. I’m sure when you were talking about skills that are “blatantly overpowered” you weren’t talking about the ranger class. The whole complaint about a ranger rapid firing you from full health to zero while you were stealthed and… blocking… was probably just a fun story to share with the ranger community.

Don’t worry, I understood the real message you were trying to share when you said, “the PvP landscape will be reduced to an ocean of nothing but one class.” Clearly you were here to talk about how broken cele engi is and how there are far too many of them in PvP right now. I think it’s pretty obvious to everyone how broken engi is right now and how it is in desperate need of some nerfs to balance out the PvP scene.

I for one strongly support your cause of getting engi’s nerfed. +1 OP

Jim Hunter.6821:

I think it’s pretty obvious to everyone how broken engi is right now and how it is in desperate need of some nerfs to balance out the PvP scene.

I for one strongly support your cause of getting engi’s nerfed. +1 OP

I actually do believe engi’s need nerfed. I am absolutely aware of the overpowered nature of my class. I don’t know about cele engineers, but turret engineers are an abomination that A-net should destroy.

Gern.2978:

It was meant to attempt and have a mature discussion about an imbalance in the ranger class which I personally observed.

This is not true. You came here and emphatically stated that “Rapide Fire” is unbalanced while discrediting the Ranger sub-forum even before an answer. You could not wait a discussion, even less a mature one.

Gern.2978:

But, why then can my Engineer be dropped from full health to zero while stealthed and blocking by a ranger’s “Rapid Fire?” It can be dodged you might say, and that would be true if not for the ranger’s immobilize, which can’t be broken by any means other than damage
“Rapid fire” is an ability with damage that is comparable to a warrior’s “hundred blades” except it can be channeled while moving, has a range of 1200 (further if you arc it right), continues to hit a target if they stealth and move around, can be unblock-able.

I realize that I probably won’t get much support here on the Ranger sub-forum, but this thread would probably have been moved here if I posted it elsewhere.

I just can’t

When people complain about my Ranger’s rapid fire when I play a powerbow build … then I switch to condition ranger … and they complain about condition burst.

Then I get on my Engineer and they just cry because the condition burst never ends as I cycle through 3 kits and my pistol :-p

After that I get on my Mesmer and Staff clones with elasticity and rabid gear are the next problem … and it’s “unfair” that killing my clones causes them to blow up and apply conditions.

There are counters. There is counterplay. There are plenty of us that love to eat Longbow Rangers with our Rangers (often as condition rangers). Other classes have plenty of options for dealing with it as well… and heavy forbid that my clones confuse them and/or I use one of my very few stealths as a Mesmer … then I’m playing a “coward build”.

I don’t see how you can say

• Yes, there are plenty of ways to counter it … it is still overpowered.

Is it effective? Yes.
Is it overpowered? No.

Rapid fire isn’t exactly OP it is however very strong for very little effort. The only problem I have with it is how much damage it can do at such a long range and with an odd cast time you have to dodge twice to evade the entire cast. My idea is reduce the damage by like 25% but make its cast time even lower like a 1.5 sec cast time at least this way if you dodge it you will dodge almost all of it save for a few hits. I am sure the numbers can be balanced to make it faster with the right amount of damage for the cast time.

It’s funny when ever i come to forum, i see one kid crying about how ranger pierced his candy build… Wanna know something? If ranger wants to win versus every class, he/she has to change their build for specific fight.

Why do you expect to run 1 build and own all?
Simple your build has nothing to defend yourself for rapidfire..

Sadly… there are way more OP skills then rapid fire in game and no1 cares about them…
But me personally, i addapt and counter the skill.

If you are warrior and you lost to ranger… ask yourself what can you do to improve, the time spend for this topic, would already give you the answer

Frightlight.3796:

My idea is reduce the damage by like 25% but make its cast time even lower like a 1.5 sec cast time at least this way if you dodge it you will dodge almost all of it save for a few hits. I am sure the numbers can be balanced to make it faster with the right amount of damage for the cast time.

and, NO.
Predicting enemy ranger is so easy.
You guys just have to learn one thing, IF you nerf rapid fire or anything about power ranger, i’ll 24/7 condi ranger, and trust me, you guys don’t want to make a deal with devil… Cuz when ranger changes to condi, there is no class to counter it.

Gern.2978:

but unlike almost every other ability in the game, Rapid Fire continues to track your target. Other abilities will hit a stealthed opponent, but the person who is stealthed can just move out of it.

Just to be clear, RF does not track the target. It will lead the target. That is, each arrow will be aimed at where the target will be if it continues at its current speed and direction.

But once the arrow is in the air, it will not track (follow) the target. Ranger arrows can be avoided without burning any defensive skills simply by juking (changing directions) or stutter-stepping.

The Read the Wind trait (makes arrows fly faster) makes this a lot harder, but the arrows never track the target like, say, thief Trick Shot (shortbow autoattack) or mesmer Spatial Surge (GS autoattack). Unlike ranger arrows, moving around will not help you avoid those tracking attacks. You need to burn a defensive skill (dodge, evade, block, etc.) or break line of sight to avoid them.

And all channeled targeted skills will continue to lead/track a stealthed target if the skill began channeling before the target stealthed. It’s a limitation of the game engine which Anet has decided to keep as a feature. Warrior Volley and mesmer Spatial Surge do the exact same thing.

The OP has a point but arguing with the wrong supporting facts. Then again, what isn’t considered overpowered in this game. Balance patches are so rare to the point that PvP is an obnoxious mess.

Here are some counter-points to the arguments made against a Rapid Fire balance:

“L2P, You can just dodge it.” Sure, you can dodge it, everything can be dodge, sometimes I wonder how is this even a counter argument. Dodging provides you a 1second window of invulnerability. Rapid Fire is channeled over period of 2.5seconds. From the moment you know you need to dodge from a Ranger casting the skill on you, to avoid the full damage means you need to double dodge. The underlining factor is double dodging for one skill is a pretty big investment.

“Oh but you can block/reflect/invul to negate the damage.” Those options often come with a hefty cooldown and isn’t always available. It’s about trade-off. If you’re going to utilize a lengthy cooldown to survive, you need to know you can finish off the Ranger within the next 8seconds else arrows will continue to rain down again.

“You can try side stepping to avoid the arrows.” This one is questionable. ‘Read the Wind’ trait makes the arrow projectile move too fast to be side stepped with the battle mode movement speed. Distance is a factor, further away you are, easier it is to sidestep projectiles. Overall, most of the shots should still find its mark from the speed bonus if you’re within 1200 range.

“Line of Sight.” This is the best solution as a counter to not only Rangers but all other classes out there. It’s ultimately the second best method (after dodge) to avoid a lot of damage in PvP if you don’t need to be on node to keep it capped/neutral.

Akikaze.1307:

you need to know you can finish off the Ranger within the next 8seconds else arrows will continue to rain down again.

In that case you’re allowing a fully invested power ranger to use RF on cooldown, in other words you’re doing it wrong.

I quite like the idea of Rapid Fire rooting you like other multi-hit skills such as Hundred Blades, Blurred Frenzy, Pistol Whip etc.

But I really think Ranger needs some immobilise sources on their weapon skills so there’s less reliance on Entangle/kitteny pet skills. Just throwing out an idea – maybe Point Blank Shot should immobilise instead when hitting a target from behind. Monarch’s Leap could also do with a short immobilise possibly. Pfft just a little more control.

Simonoly.4352:

I quite like the idea of Rapid Fire rooting you like other multi-hit skills such as Hundred Blades, Blurred Frenzy, Pistol Whip etc.

You would have to compensate it. Pistol Whip stuns, Blurred Frenzy gives distortion, 100b does more damage.

We got several reliable sources of immobolize. We only got one on-demand knockback. Changing PBS to an immobolize? No thanks.

Lazze.9870:

Akikaze.1307:

you need to know you can finish off the Ranger within the next 8seconds else arrows will continue to rain down again.

In that case you’re allowing a fully invested power ranger to use RF on cooldown, in other words you’re doing it wrong.

That’s why it’s called a trade off. Focus down the ranger as it’s a big threat and using your big cooldowns whilst doing so. Then comes the problem that you blew blocks/invul for rest of the fight.

Btw there is no point stating allowing a “fully invested power ranger”. Almost all of the meta zerker builds are all heavily invested into offensive setup. Any zerker were given free realm will cause serious pain.

Lazze.9870:

Simonoly.4352:

I quite like the idea of Rapid Fire rooting you like other multi-hit skills such as Hundred Blades, Blurred Frenzy, Pistol Whip etc.

You would have to compensate it. Pistol Whip stuns, Blurred Frenzy gives distortion, 100b does more damage.

I rather like that idea.

If they made RF root the ranger in place like all the other channeled high damage skills, they could also make it strike an entire area instead of just the ranger’s target, kind of like 100b and pistol whip. I’m not saying that they make RF a ground target ability, but rather that they remove it’s ability to track the target (yeah I know a lot of you insist that it doesn’t do that, but it does, I even tested it myself) and instead make it sort of rain down arrows where the target was when RF was cast, with a cleave range similar to 100b and pistol whip. I think that would solve a lot of mechanical problems of RF without nerfing the ranger’s damage.

LOL ok you want to make Rapid Fire aoe and turn it into a low cooldown, stronger version of Barrage. Great idea, it will definitely NOT start up even more QQ about how one glass ranger just downed 5 people trying to rez someone.
__________________________________________________________________

And for the rest of us rangers, when I find someone QQing about rangers on the forums, I add them in game, spec for the build they complained about, find them in a match, and proceed to kill them as much as possible LOL

I still cannot believe these threads. We never had these prior to the animation change for RF…it has ALWAYS worked the same way. It just has a chance to actually hit something now if you trait right for it.

Where were you people in 2012 demanding RF and LB nerfs? LOL.

shadowpass.4236:

LOL ok you want to make Rapid Fire aoe and turn it into a low cooldown, stronger version of Barrage. Great idea, it will definitely NOT start up even more QQ about how one glass ranger just downed 5 people trying to rez someone.

Technically, you could trait Rapid fire to pierce. That is already considered a straight line aoe and could down players ressing another.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Where were you people in 2012 demanding RF and LB nerfs? LOL.

Your answer: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/September_2014_Feature_Pack/Balance_changes#Ranger_.5B3.5D
Clearly there was threads for nerf in 2012 when it was changed in 2014. Time Travel.

He’s saying that due to it doing the exact same damage since 2012, that there should have been people QQing back then also. All the QQ has come since they removed 2s from the cast time.

Gern.2978:

Well. I’ve certainly found the most toxic community in the game.

1) You can’t dodge while immobilized
2)Yes, 100b has more damage, I never said it didn’t. But the damage of 100b and RF is very close, plus RF has 1200 range and tracks the target.
2) Yes, you can dodge RF under normal cercumstances, but it takes all your initiative because you have to dodge twice.

I am not a turret engineer (decap engi’s are an abomination that need to be destroyed). I alternate between this build http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUp+qlcxWLseNSdBNqoA6LEgCI6FOkYA-TJBHwAAeAAd2fo8FAAZZAA

And this build: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUp+qlcxELseRCbBNqxAqUIyNWlPHhAkUA-TJBHwAAeAAt2fo8FAAZZAA

And I am actually quite good with both builds. I don’t get roflstomped by rangers, nor did I say that I do. I was voicing my opinion about one specific ability (two if you count the ranger’s immobilize) Nothing more.

You aren’t getting immobilized by a ranger from 1200 range, so stop claiming that this ‘ultimate combo’ of yours has 1200 range. It does not. Second, 100B doesn’t get reflected or LoSed.

Second, if that ability doesn’t make rangers unfairly difficult to beat, why are you advocating nerfing it in the first place? It’s the only thing keeping longbow rangers almost viable; are you seriously claiming that removing them from play entirely would be more balanced than the current situation?

This is why you don’t look at one specific skill to determine balance. Having one or two powerful skills on an overall underpowered class is not unacceptable, and nerfing those skills would only make an already weak class even weaker, making the game less balanced.

So much bias. I can’t wait for the tears when they ‘nerf’ warrior again, And by nerf I mean they make some sort of universal change that warrior’s believe was specifically targeting them alone.

It will be just like, quickness/pies/ferocity. The shortsightedness of the warriors amazes me, but then again the neromancers when they aren’t all pity-party are starting to try dragging down other profession as they’ve lost all hope for ‘real’ improvements.

Gern.2978:

Manekk.6981:

Gern.2978:

You are all making some pretty big asumptions about my abilities. Yes there are ways to mitigate the damage of rapid shot (when it is used by itself) but they are limited when compared with other abilities of other classes, such as 100b. These abilities are even more limited when rapid shot is used in conjunction with “Entangle.”

And yes, actually, RF does track the target. Go and see for yourself.

And when did I ever say that my class doesn’t need changes? I called decap engineers abominations that need to be destroyed.

Wouldn’t you just aswell feel any high damage skill is OP if it’s bursted in your face while you are immobilized? 100b would be much worse for you if immobilized? yes it would, it’s the immob making you angry and in my honest opinion it shouldn’t stack duration.

Cleanse.

Yes, immobilize makes RF worse, as well as 100b. However, unlike 100b, RF can be channeled while moving and tracks the target. Now being a ranged ability, it would be stupid to remove the tracking aspect of the attack. As annoying as it is, such a change would make the attack completely useless. However, it makes sense to remove the ability to move while channeling RF to bring it in line with almost every other high damage channeled attack in the game, including 100b.

It’s really funny how you complain about rapid fire when immobilized, then defend 100b on the basis of “but they can’t move when channeling it!” Guess what? Against an immobilized target, Hundred Blades is better than Rapid Fire!

Second (regarding your claim that the ranger community is particularly toxic), if you’re going to call for a nerf to an already underpowered and underused build*, and support this call with blatant, outright lies, victims of this intended nerf will become…upset…with you. Does that surprise you? Anyways, rapid fire cannot hit through blocking. Its arrows do not track the target; once an arrow leaves the bow, it does not deviate from its projected path in order to follow the target. It keeps its target through stealth, but so does every other channeled ability in the entire game. And, if you got hit with entangle, the ranger was shooting you from within 600 range, so you can stop claiming 1200 range there. The combo you’re whining about has 600 range, which is too close for a longbow to deal its highest DPS.

Also, I’ve seen people point out that a dodge will only negate half of rapid fire’s damage. So what? The ranger is already giving up defense, probably stability, mobility, condition cleanse, boons, boon stripping, AoE, and short range effectiveness, and in return they get that little bit of extra damage from RF. If you’re in melee range of the ranger, you will be outdamaging them almost certainly, and that 5k ‘free’ damage isn’t going to swing the fight in their favor.

*underpowered and underused in structured PvP, which is the basis for balance in this game; also, it is completely absent from the highest level tournaments

Unholy Pillager.3791:

*underpowered and underused in structured PvP, which is the basis for balance in this game; also, it is completely absent from the highest level tournaments

Surprisingly, Ranger is actually utilized more than Necromancers. Ranger isn’t completely absent from high level tournaments. Instead they’re often played tied in to map exclusiveness, mainly for Legacy of Foefire.

the only class with a legit complaint against rangers are necros they have 0 defence or mitigation against them.

Firelysm.4967:

It’s funny when ever i come to forum, i see one kid crying about how ranger pierced his candy build… Wanna know something? If ranger wants to win versus every class, he/she has to change their build for specific fight.

Why do you expect to run 1 build and own all?
Simple your build has nothing to defend yourself for rapidfire..

Sadly… there are way more OP skills then rapid fire in game and no1 cares about them…
But me personally, i addapt and counter the skill.

If you are warrior and you lost to ranger… ask yourself what can you do to improve, the time spend for this topic, would already give you the answer

Frightlight.3796:

My idea is reduce the damage by like 25% but make its cast time even lower like a 1.5 sec cast time at least this way if you dodge it you will dodge almost all of it save for a few hits. I am sure the numbers can be balanced to make it faster with the right amount of damage for the cast time.

and, NO.
Predicting enemy ranger is so easy.
You guys just have to learn one thing, IF you nerf rapid fire or anything about power ranger, i’ll 24/7 condi ranger, and trust me, you guys don’t want to make a deal with devil… Cuz when ranger changes to condi, there is no class to counter it.

Dire thief says hi and bring the condi on. You stand no chance.

Condi Ranger has so much condition removal that no condition build can duel it easily. 10x more condi removal than the thief and also much more condi burst.

Akikaze.1307:

Btw there is no point stating allowing a “fully invested power ranger”. Almost all of the meta zerker builds are all heavily invested into offensive setup. Any zerker were given free realm will cause serious pain.

There are several variations of the power ranger build, some with less survivability than others. Refering to a fully invested power ranger is refering to one that has spent two master traits and one grandmaster trait to enhance the longbow.

No other meta builds has such a heavy investement into one single weapon. And it’s far less forgiving when forced into melee when compared to the common survival of the fittest variant.

That’s the point of saying it is “fully invested”. Because it is.

That so-called trade off of having to blow all my cooldowns to take down a power ranger rarely occurs to me.

Lazze.9870:

Akikaze.1307:

Btw there is no point stating allowing a “fully invested power ranger”. Almost all of the meta zerker builds are all heavily invested into offensive setup. Any zerker were given free realm will cause serious pain.

There are several variations of the power ranger build, some with less survivability than others. Refering to a fully invested power ranger is refering to one that has spent two master traits and one grandmaster trait to enhance the longbow.

No other meta builds has such a heavy investement into one single weapon. And it’s far less forgiving when forced into melee when compared to the common survival of the fittest variant.

That’s the point of saying it is “fully invested”. Because it is.

That so-called trade off of having to blow all my cooldowns to take down a power ranger rarely occurs to me.

“ALMOST” all. Yes, there are variants that offer more defensive capabilities. However it doesn’t deny the fact that they’re still heavily 6 points traited into power. Other classes might not invest heavily for one weapon but they still suffer as much in losing defensive capabilities due to favouring offensive traits. D/P Thief, Shatter Mesmer, Fresh Air Ele etc.

As for using trade-off cooldowns explanation. Distortion on Mesmer for example is a 45+ second cooldown but it can be used offensively when traited to reflect, it’ll pretty much ensure a kill on rangers who chooses to Rapid Fire into it. Then you’re left without defensive Distortion if another fight occurs.

Akikaze.1307:

As for using trade-off cooldowns explanation. Distortion on Mesmer for example is a 45+ second cooldown but it can be used offensively when traited to reflect, it’ll pretty much ensure a kill on rangers who chooses to Rapid Fire into it. Then you’re left without defensive Distortion if another fight occurs.

First of all, there is nothing biased about anything I just said. I see you edited it away, but I just wanna point it out anyway. I main ranger, but I rarely ever touch the longbow builds.

Secondly. I didn’t ask for an explanation for cooldown trade-off. I know perfectly well what you meant. I stated that I rarely blow off cooldowns against power rangers. Period. there is nothing more to it.

To me power rangers are one of the easiest matchups. They’re usually predictable and they got obvious weaknesses. Anyone who plays ranger on this forum will tell you the same thing.

Killshot Sniper is far far far worse burst than rapid fire when fully traited into damage. I don’t get why people don’t complain about it more often. Probably because it isn’t seen all that much comparatively.

It’s seen plenty, it’s just much less visible when a single bullet instantly hits you than when a Ranger channels 10 shots into you over 2.5s. Many people don’t even bother to look at their combat log(s).

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Killshot Sniper is far far far worse burst than rapid fire when fully traited into damage. I don’t get why people don’t complain about it more often. Probably because it isn’t seen all that much comparatively.

Go tell that to the warrior community. There are a couple threads in that sub-forum about how terrible the rifle is. If you tell most warriors that a warrior rifle is as good or better than a LB ranger, they will laugh at you and tell you how dumb you are. I am most certainly not agreeing with those people, only pointing out that it’s easy to perceive an ability on a class you play most as underpowered or even worthless, when that may not be the reality.

I am not, nor have I ever suggested that A-net nerf RF. I have, in fact, said several times that they should buff it’s damage. What I am suggesting is that they alter the mechanics of the ability: remove the ability to channel RF while moving, remove the ability of RF to track the target (I’m not saying the arrows track the target, RF tracks the target. Go fire at a moving target and you will see what I mean) and instead make RF an AOE attack that covers the area where the target is/was when RF was cast with a radius equal to the cleave radius of 100b, blurred frenzy, and pistol whip. Those changes would bring RF in line with other channeled high damage attacks without causing the ranger to lose any DPS.

Think people just get complacent about things until something changes and then OMGWTF occurs.

I’ve always generally played a Power Ranger but as a Ranger GS block turns enemy RF into a pointless skill and most of the time they still channel the ability while I’m blocking.

I’d still like to know how the hell an engi has had a problem with such a basic channeled skill. I thought most channeled skills in PVP were bad ideas. O.o

I think that change would be a rather large nerf given how the meta involves large amounts of mobility. Now you’ve added “move” to the already sizeable list of ways to counter rapid fire.

There are plenty of other skills in the game that track just the same but can’t be reflected. Many are also channeled and allow the user to move while channeling them as well.

The Rifle probably isn’t as good 1v1 as the Longbow. Longbow does have both stealth and a ranged knockback which help considerably. The Rifle is better for being that shot out of nowhere in the middle of fights when you can’t keep your eyes on the warrior the whole time to see if he’s kneeling with his gun pointed at your head.

Sebrent.3625:

….Now you’ve added “move” to the already sizeable list of ways to counter rapid fire.

Yes, which brings it in line with every other channeled, high damage attack. Currently, you can counter 100b, blurred frenzy, etc., in all the same ways as RF, except that with all those other abilities you only need to dodge once and you can also simply move out of them. Yet, those abilities are still viable in PvP, you just have to get some sort of stun/immobilize off first. You still wont likely get the full attack off, but that is why these attacks are such high damage, and why RF should get a damage buff if the changes I suggested were implemented.
If my suggested changes were implemented, it would make RF just like the other high damage channeled attacks. Except that unlike the others, it can be used at 1500 range. Maybe they should also increase the knockback range of “Point Blank Shot” as well.

Sebrent.3625:

There are plenty of other skills in the game that track just the same but can’t be reflected. Many are also channeled and allow the user to move while channeling them as well.

Like what? I know of none that are damaging attacks, let alone damaging attacks that are high damage like 100b.

Gern, I know you already know this but we can channel all we want, run, walk, whatever but at the end of the day it isn’t a issue because players can dodge. So we can channel, players can dodge. It really is a moot point.

Its sort of like me telling a warrior they can’t run or leap if they have their big kitten sword or hammer out.

Sebrent.3625:

I think that change would be a rather large nerf given how the meta involves large amounts of mobility. Now you’ve added “move” to the already sizeable list of ways to counter rapid fire.

There are plenty of other skills in the game that track just the same but can’t be reflected. Many are also channeled and allow the user to move while channeling them as well.

The Rifle probably isn’t as good 1v1 as the Longbow. Longbow does have both stealth and a ranged knockback which help considerably. The Rifle is better for being that shot out of nowhere in the middle of fights when you can’t keep your eyes on the warrior the whole time to see if he’s kneeling with his gun pointed at your head.

Or if he’s an asura in wich case you can’t tell the diffrence of any of his skills or movement lol xD

@Gern:
Fight a good scepter+X Elementalist. Channeled air hurts. It hurts even more given their traits and sigils have it constantly proccing nastiness on you. Then add to that they can cast Lightning Strike every 5s without interrupting it and it really hurts. It also can’t be reflected. Sure, it doesn’t hurt as much as a single Rapid Fire, but it just stays on you continuously while they hit you with other things uninterrupted.

@Manekk:
Lol, aye.

Sebrent.3625:

@Gern:
Fight a good scepter+X Elementalist. Channeled air hurts. It hurts even more given their traits and sigils have it constantly proccing nastiness on you. Then add to that they can cast Lightning Strike every 5s without interrupting it and it really hurts. It also can’t be reflected. Sure, it doesn’t hurt as much as a single Rapid Fire, but it just stays on you continuously while they hit you with other things uninterrupted.

@Manekk:
Lol, aye.

That’s not really relevant here. Just because there are other abilities that may or may not be overpowered, doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t work on RF or we can’t suggest changes to other abilities. Also this fact: “Sure, it doesn’t hurt as much as a single Rapid Fire..” kind of negates your point. LS is neither a channeled ability nor hits as hard as RF. You will have to refresh me on what channeled air is, I am not familiar with ele’s abilities too much.

Arc Lightning. It is a constant … as opposed to a 2.5s channel that can be cast every 8 to 10s at most … so 10.5 to 12.5s. It’s not interrupted by their other damage which has no telegraph and simply smacks you in the face.

It also stacks with their abundance of ways to proc on-crit.

Let’s look back at counters to Rapid Fire:

• Daze
• Stun
• LOS
• Block
• Reflect
• Dodge
• Invuln

Plenty of ways to mitigate Rapid Fire. We don’t need to add “move slightly to the side” to this list.

A buddy of mine was trying Dagger+Pistol Thief. He didn’t know what to do about Rapid Fire at first and died to it quite a bit. Then I pointed out to him that his #4 is an interrupt and it was never an issue again. Add to that that his Steal dazes and it’s even less of a problem.

Later he was trying Sword+Dagger Thief. He can still daze with steal every ~21s so roughly every other Rapid Fire and can easily LOS with intelligent use of Infiltrator’s Strike/Return.

Mesmer has daze via shatters and plenty of weapons also interrupt in one way or another.

Warrior has plenty of blocks as well as interrupts depending on their weapon sets.

… and the list goes on and on.

Complaining about Rapid Fire is like complaining about conditions when you don’t bring any condition removal.

At least it does its damage with a telegraph and over 2.5s from an interruptible channel. There are other abilities with no telegraph that do the damage instantly and from range.

Sebrent.3625:

Arc Lightning. It is a constant … as opposed to a 2.5s channel that can be cast every 8 to 10s at most … so 10.5 to 12.5s. It’s not interrupted by their other damage which has no telegraph and simply smacks you in the face.

It also stacks with their abundance of ways to proc on-crit.

Let’s look back at counters to Rapid Fire:

• Daze
• Stun
• LOS
• Block
• Reflect
• Dodge
• Invuln

Plenty of ways to mitigate Rapid Fire. We don’t need to add “move slightly to the side” to this list.

A buddy of mine was trying Dagger+Pistol Thief. He didn’t know what to do about Rapid Fire at first and died to it quite a bit. Then I pointed out to him that his #4 is an interrupt and it was never an issue again. Add to that that his Steal dazes and it’s even less of a problem.

Later he was trying Sword+Dagger Thief. He can still daze with steal every ~21s so roughly every other Rapid Fire and can easily LOS with intelligent use of Infiltrator’s Strike/Return.

Mesmer has daze via shatters and plenty of weapons also interrupt in one way or another.

Warrior has plenty of blocks as well as interrupts depending on their weapon sets.

… and the list goes on and on.

Complaining about Rapid Fire is like complaining about conditions when you don’t bring any condition removal.

At least it does its damage with a telegraph and over 2.5s from an interruptible channel. There are other abilities with no telegraph that do the damage instantly and from range.

I very much disagree. Yes there are ways to mitigate RF, but no build/class has access to even half of those abilities at any given time, let alone all of them at all times as everyone seems to be making it sound. In fact, given the short cooldown of RF, you are realistically only going to be able to counter the first RF, you then have to eat the second or dodge twice to avoid it, which then leave you having to eat all the rest of the ranger’s damage.

Im not saying that RF is the most OP ability in the game, only that it needs changes to it’s mechanics, and a damage buff, in order to balance it out with other high damage channeled attacks.