Guild Wars 2

This ought to cover necro minions and maybe illusions, but this is particularly egregious against rangers, because the kitten pet is 30-40% of the ranger’s damage. If you’re BM, the pet actually does more damage than you.

A pistol dagger gets permanent condition cleanse and on demand stealth opener spam by virtue of facing a ranger.

I know people will retort to call the pet to you, but ranger damage won’t scratch anything without an active pet— imagine any other class having to halve their damage just to avoid facilitating the enemy’s strategies.

Some will say to run ranged pets to make it less difficult, but ranged pets are terrible — their projectiles are slow and like the necro and guardian projectiles have trouble hitting targets compared to pistol shots. Most of all, even ranged pets will stand still in place shotting allowing for a thief to get only as close as he has to to hit it while hugging the safety of range.

This goes for all thieves, pistol thieves and sword/dagger thieves. You can use the skill to deny a cnd on yourself, but the thief can just turn around and hit the idiotic pet that will neither dodge or block.

I know the trouble with thieves is more than abusing pets, that they can abuse culling to close or create distance even after stealth breaks or to get away, that they have overpowered heals that remove conditions immediately baseline and everytime they stealth they remove conditions and continue to do so every 3 seconds. That they not only have shadowstep but another traited one and blinding powder stealth when cc’d so they can pretty much escape any spike attempt and retreat.

But this would go a long way to making encounters with thieves less annoying: Just make cnd not work on pets/minions. You are unjustly punishing a class with a mechanic they have no say over that happens to take away half of their contribution with bad ai, bad survivability, and on top of that actually helps the opponent many times instead of hurting them.

Don’t worry about it, it’s just Anets vision of balance and how things should be, I wouldn’t expect this to ever change.

It’s a horror show. No way to stow the pet when facing a thief and the f2 cast takes longer to get off than the thief is visible before he picks a free cloak and dagger from the pet and the pet resets once again wondering what happened.

Rangers should maybe just stick to gathering nodes in orr.

I just wish you could stow a pet during a battle, like not have it come out at the start of combat. This isn’t even a thief thing I just think it would be a nice feature to have.

That being said one option could be just to improve pet attacking so that when the thief is close enough to CnD the pet the pet can actually land a hit. It doesn’t seem like much but pets HURT when it comes to thieves.

Has anyone tried toggling the pet between passive/attack mode during the fight? I know this is a “band-aid fix” since it does not solve the problem, but it could at least get the pet out of the area and deny a CnD. Just offering as a possible, temporary, tactic.

Expiatus.4210:

Has anyone tried toggling the pet between passive/attack mode during the fight? I know this is a “band-aid fix” since it does not solve the problem, but it could at least get the pet out of the area and deny a CnD. Just offering as a possible, temporary, tactic.

Its easier to just call them back because once you press f3 the pet won’t attack at all unless you either tell them to or leave combat entirely and enter it again (iirc a thief entering stealth doesn’t drop your combat)

If they weren’t stealthing off your pet they would stealth off you. Atleast this way your not taking the inital damage.

I dont see you shutting down a thief ablity to go into stealth no matter what you class are.

Dante.3754:

Expiatus.4210:

Has anyone tried toggling the pet between passive/attack mode during the fight? I know this is a “band-aid fix” since it does not solve the problem, but it could at least get the pet out of the area and deny a CnD. Just offering as a possible, temporary, tactic.

Its easier to just call them back because once you press f3 the pet won’t attack at all unless you either tell them to or leave combat entirely and enter it again (iirc a thief entering stealth doesn’t drop your combat)

Ug. Passive/attack….that’s my WoW conditioning kicking in there. Call them back is what I was meaning to say. Thanks.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

If they weren’t stealthing off your pet they would stealth off you. Atleast this way your not taking the inital damage.

I dont see you shutting down a thief ablity to go into stealth no matter what you class are.

You can dodge CnD, your pet can’t. I’ve done it many times, and it kills me that even though I had the skill to pay attention to the animation and dodge it, the thief can just turn around and go cnd off a pet that won’t dodge.

Zenith.7301:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

If they weren’t stealthing off your pet they would stealth off you. Atleast this way your not taking the inital damage.

I dont see you shutting down a thief ablity to go into stealth no matter what you class are.

You can dodge CnD, your pet can’t. I’ve done it many times, and it kills me that even though I had the skill to pay attention to the animation and dodge it, the thief can just turn around and go cnd off a pet that won’t dodge.

Yeah this, it’s actually a pretty good tactic to use against thieves because it forces them to blow cooldowns to enter stealth. But as pointed out if you send in your pet any decent thief will use your pet to stealth and then hit you with the burst/opening conditions.

As pointed out though, BM specs loose a lot of DPS because of this.

capuchinseven.8395:

As pointed out though, BM specs loose a lot of DPS because of this.

Actually, all ranger specs loose a lot of dps if you’re forced to try and keep your pet passive, and you’re at a major disadvantage vs the thief for doing so, and at a major disadvantage if you try to use your pet on him as well – kitten if you, kitten if you don’t.

We’re balanced with the pet, you shouldn’t be able to take out a cloak and dagger thief at all if you don’t use your pet, if both players are of equal skill.

There are three major issues here:

- Cloak and dagger being able to gain stealth from pets
- Pets being so unresponsive to attack when the thief leaves stealth
- The time it takes for you to retarget the thief, while the thief on the other hand keeps you targeted all the time

Can we beat them? Of course, but the mechanics of the thief class annoys me like no other thing I’ve ever come across in any mmo before.

OGDeadHead.8326:

capuchinseven.8395:

As pointed out though, BM specs loose a lot of DPS because of this.

Actually, all ranger specs loose a lot of dps if you’re forced to try and keep your pet passive, and you’re at a major disadvantage vs the thief for doing so, and at a major disadvantage if you try to use your pet on him as well – kitten if you, kitten if you don’t.

We’re balanced with the pet, you shouldn’t be able to take out a cloak and dagger thief at all if you don’t use your pet, if both players are of equal skill.

There are three major issues here:

- Cloak and dagger being able to gain stealth from pets
- Pets being so unresponsive to attack when the thief leaves stealth
- The time it takes for you to retarget the thief, while the thief on the other hand keeps you targeted all the time

Can we beat them? Of course, but the mechanics of the thief class annoys me like no other thing I’ve ever come across in any mmo before.

Doesn’t bother me when not in BM spec, I use conditions and crits to apply them, while I keep moving and evading keeping back at all times until they close on me and I can then apply my pets burst when I have them in a nice little circle dancing around trying to hit me. When they close on me and I let them in, that’s when I hit them with my pets burst. As fast as they can drop conditions I can re-apply them.

In BM spec it’s much harder for me to land conditions and I hit like a noodle without the pet in constant combat.

Is the pet important for all rangers? Yes I agree and I’m not making light of the issue, but in my skirmish build I only apply the pet at the right moment, it’s not as much of an issue for me to hold back the pet, in fact that’s pretty much my basic 101 tactic to beating thieves.

Once you are experienced enough and have a solid BM build, defeating thieves starts to become exponentially easier, even after they use your pet as a free CnD. However, there are still those P/D thieves who are literally murder to deal with, these kinds really exploit that CnD on the pet and there is nothing you can do to stop them other than to pull your pet away… which is a serious disadvantage to BM builds, because you really need that pet to land hits on the thief.

That being said, what can you do against it? If the thief is melee then their next actions are highly predictable, meaning some kind of burst that any experienced ranger can work around. However, P/D thief? forget it. In my honest opinion, something needs to be done with regards to this. I can accept that every class has some kind of class that is pretty good at countering them, but who can counter a P/D thief efficiently and how? I would very much like to know, so I can adjust appropriately.

P/D are about the only thieves to give me trouble anymore but I find them killable but I’m not running BM right now.

That said I DO find it so annoying that they can use bunnies and other white mobs to enter stealth. Stealth has been handled very badly by ANet.

capuchinseven.8395:

Zenith.7301:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

If they weren’t stealthing off your pet they would stealth off you. Atleast this way your not taking the inital damage.

I dont see you shutting down a thief ablity to go into stealth no matter what you class are.

You can dodge CnD, your pet can’t. I’ve done it many times, and it kills me that even though I had the skill to pay attention to the animation and dodge it, the thief can just turn around and go cnd off a pet that won’t dodge.

Yeah this, it’s actually a pretty good tactic to use against thieves because it forces them to blow cooldowns to enter stealth. But as pointed out if you send in your pet any decent thief will use your pet to stealth and then hit you with the burst/opening conditions.

As pointed out though, BM specs loose a lot of DPS because of this.

Blow cooldowns ? you realise theifs have NO cooldowns on 1 to 5 skills right? It isn’t even a waste of innitative as during the stealth duration 50 to 100% of inniative used is restored depending on the build of the thief.

Kakeru.2873:

capuchinseven.8395:

Zenith.7301:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

If they weren’t stealthing off your pet they would stealth off you. Atleast this way your not taking the inital damage.

I dont see you shutting down a thief ablity to go into stealth no matter what you class are.

You can dodge CnD, your pet can’t. I’ve done it many times, and it kills me that even though I had the skill to pay attention to the animation and dodge it, the thief can just turn around and go cnd off a pet that won’t dodge.

Yeah this, it’s actually a pretty good tactic to use against thieves because it forces them to blow cooldowns to enter stealth. But as pointed out if you send in your pet any decent thief will use your pet to stealth and then hit you with the burst/opening conditions.

As pointed out though, BM specs loose a lot of DPS because of this.

Blow cooldowns ? you realise theifs have NO cooldowns on 1 to 5 skills right? It isn’t even a waste of innitative as during the stealth duration 50 to 100% of inniative used is restored depending on the build of the thief.

I don’t think you understand.

capuchinseven.8395:

Kakeru.2873:

capuchinseven.8395:

Zenith.7301:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

If they weren’t stealthing off your pet they would stealth off you. Atleast this way your not taking the inital damage.

I dont see you shutting down a thief ablity to go into stealth no matter what you class are.

You can dodge CnD, your pet can’t. I’ve done it many times, and it kills me that even though I had the skill to pay attention to the animation and dodge it, the thief can just turn around and go cnd off a pet that won’t dodge.

Yeah this, it’s actually a pretty good tactic to use against thieves because it forces them to blow cooldowns to enter stealth. But as pointed out if you send in your pet any decent thief will use your pet to stealth and then hit you with the burst/opening conditions.

As pointed out though, BM specs loose a lot of DPS because of this.

Blow cooldowns ? you realise theifs have NO cooldowns on 1 to 5 skills right? It isn’t even a waste of innitative as during the stealth duration 50 to 100% of inniative used is restored depending on the build of the thief.

I don’t think you understand.

That’s right, he’s clearly trying to say that if they miss a CnD they would blow through that amount of initiative and have to resort to other stuff. Although dodging CnD does not precisely get you out of trouble, it all depends on the skill of the thief. Putting that aside, pets have the greatest of all disadvantages against thief, I wonder if something will be done about this? Perhaps ranger pets will be the only thing they cannot CnD to in order to express fairness? I cannot speak for ANet, an opinion on their part would be amazing, or they can simply answer by remaining silent and have us ‘suck it up’… I don’t like it either ways.

Yes exactly, if you make them miss C/D or totally deny them it they have to use cooldowns from other abilities to gain stealth.