Guild Wars 2

In PvE, from some common wisdom somehow I thought that the tiers are something like:
1. Top ranged dps – Herald hammer
2. DH lonbow, Ele staff
3. Ranger lonbow, mesmer GS
4. Everybody else

However plying and testing seems that it is rather:
1. Ranger LB & jaguar, Ele staff
2. DH, Herald hammer
3. Everybody else

Didn’t test thief, necro, engie and the rest, because are not commonly cited as top ranged dps.

Am I doing something wrong, that my ranger has higher dps then DH and Heralds???

I main Ranger for now, but still managed to pile up hours on DH and revenant, maybe I am playing them wrong?

Sam.6483:

In PvE, from some common wisdom somehow I thought that the tiers are something like:
1. Top ranged dps – Herald hammer
2. DH lonbow, Ele staff
3. Ranger lonbow, mesmer GS
4. Everybody else

However plying and testing seems that it is rather:
1. Ranger LB & jaguar, Ele staff
2. DH, Herald hammer
3. Everybody else

Didn’t test thief, necro, engie and the rest, because are not commonly cited as top ranged dps.

Am I doing something wrong, that my ranger has higher dps then DH and Heralds???

I main Ranger for now, but still managed to pile up hours on DH and revenant, maybe I am playing them wrong?

Seeing big numbers =/= higher dps.
You have to consider CD and cast time and traits/boons too.
It also depend on hit box of foes.

Revenant’s hammer and Berserker’s Longbow currently has highest range dps because they can hit the same foes up to 2~5 times, depending on enemy’kitten box.
It could always hit up to 2 times though if the foe is in the right spot.

Also, under normal circumstances, Glint/Mallyx Revenant still has higher dps than ranger’s LB because perma boons + Mallyx 20% dps buff is really alot, plus hammer 2 has a CD of 2. Ranger has to utilize damage by using LB + LB and Marksman/Skirmish/BM + bristleback + SotP to come close to that damage)

Against stationary foes, Ele staff outdamage ranger’s sustain dps too. (But Ele has to trait for full dps of fire/air to do so, which sacrifices lots of survivability)

Fortunately, range dps-wise, ranger’s LB outdamage Guardian’s LB quite abit.

So my ranking of range dps in an organized set-up is as follow:
1. Revenant hammer / Berserker LB
2. Staff Ele
3. LB/LB ranger + pet
4. Everything else.

Dunno where these statistics come from.
I once won a 1v2 against 2 DragonHunters at the same time. With the Mighty Assassin build.

Which build are these numbers based on? I am aware Hammer Reve can be deadly, but my perspective is that he’s just much (much) more tanky. Not more deadly.

guys again, dont know were you take those numbers…
zerker lb ranger does on average 2,5K crits.
jaguar does around 2k crits that could put us in the top tier, unfortunately is impossible to hit consistently a player with swiftness, and that if the pet isn’t dead before at the begin of the fight. gosh that thing that the pet has to put itself in the “right” spot to hit passing through the target instead attacking as soon as it reaches the target really grind my gears. I wouldn’t count any other damage from pet that is not an smokescale or the brittleback.

in this video rev hammer AA is doing around 2.7-3.5 crits. hammer 2 does the same damage as the RF but with not channelling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9YLD08ervk

dragonhunters LB is the same:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CltZaG5tU7U
AA is doing around 3K, pure shot around 9K

so like seriously, its proven (i think some guild did the maths) that power ranger is not in the top dps even with the right rotation.

And that it is actually common knowledge.

@anduriell
My Bristleback has 1600 DPS unbuffed against a PvP golem.
… Alone
… Without me blinking an eye.

If I was supposed to run double Longbow with Quickdraw using Barrage – I’d say I’d beat the hell out of Revenants on ranged DPS. I’m sorry, but these are facts.

I’ve seen so many people doing the math in idiot form of way.
With all sincerity, I’ve seen the top people claiming 14K dps on Hybrid Granadier Engies (and yes, they dare to call it condition). Anyone who took that build into testing on a PvP golem couldn’t go past around 6K DPS unbuffed. Even the top players or streamers. With the proper rotation.
I peaked my numbers with a Remorseless GS build to 7500 per second on a 2 million damage test.

I won’t believe any numbers until I make them myself. That’s what I learned here in forums.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@anduriell
My Bristleback has 1600 DPS unbuffed against a PvP golem.
… Alone
… Without me blinking an eye.

If I was supposed to run double Longbow with Quickdraw using Barrage – I’d say I’d beat the hell out of Revenants on ranged DPS. I’m sorry, but these are facts.

I’ve seen so many people doing the math in idiot form of way.
With all sincerity, I’ve seen the top people claiming 14K dps on Hybrid Granadier Engies (and yes, they dare to call it condition). Anyone who took that build into testing on a PvP golem couldn’t go past around 6K DPS unbuffed. Even the top players or streamers. With the proper rotation.
I peaked my numbers with a Remorseless GS build to 7500 per second on a 2 million damage test.

I won’t believe any numbers until I make them myself. That’s what I learned here in forums.

i agree. PLEASE ANEY MAKE THE OTHER PETS AS THE SMOKESCALE AND THE BRISTLEBACK

anduriell.6280:

i agree. PLEASE ANEY MAKE THE OTHER PETS AS THE SMOKESCALE AND THE BRISTLEBACK

Screw derailing, this deserves the attention.

I’m not sure any of this is that relevant if we’re talking about fighting humans. DPS is one of a thousand parts of GW2 PvP combat.

Even in PvE, contrary to popular belief, pure personal DPS has never been the end goal. The much lamented dungeon running builds were never the highest possible personal DPS but rather the highest possible group DPS + support.

Fluffball.8307:

I’m not sure any of this is that relevant if we’re talking about fighting humans. DPS is one of a thousand parts of GW2 PvP combat.

OP was asking about PvE.
I used killing 2 dragon Hunters as an example of Ranged combat that I never could have handled if DH was superior in Damage/Burst/Dps/whatever.
And I used PvP gollem as an example since there are few Target Dummies for testing in PvE.
Sorry if I mislead you by doing so.

Tragic Positive.9356:

anduriell.6280:

i agree. PLEASE ANEY MAKE THE OTHER PETS AS THE SMOKESCALE AND THE BRISTLEBACK

Screw derailing, this deserves the attention.

Agreed, I miss my wolf. Only time I could see actually using a wolf effectively would be if they added a direwolf, similar to Garm, if they introduced a Northern Shiverpeaks expansion. Mainly since they actually are trying to make new pets good, lol.

On a not completely unrealated topic, we should also take in consideration of projectile absorb/reflect in this game. Attacks that prevent melee, also prevents range. On top of that there are many specific anti ranged skills that can cancel rangers lb damage easily. Theory vs Practice should also be discussed if you want to find out the best ranged dps.

so like seriously, its proven (i think some guild did the maths) that power ranger is not in the top dps even with the right rotation.

And that it is actually common knowledge.

Thats what I was refering to, a common knowledge, but I couldn’t find any dps charts or math that will show how the ranged weapons and the proffesions compare, so I tested a bit on dummies and Tequatl with same gear, DnT&Metabattle builds and I tried to do some basic math like reading the numbers from the logs in intervals of 60 sec and looks like the DH LB and Rev hammer are a bit weaker then LB ranger and then I thought that maybe I am doing their rotations wrong or something.

If anybody can point to some real math or charts, please.

I am talking PvE, bosses are largely static or predictable, VG let say.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@anduriell
My Bristleback has 1600 DPS unbuffed against a PvP golem.
… Alone
… Without me blinking an eye.

If I was supposed to run double Longbow with Quickdraw using Barrage – I’d say I’d beat the hell out of Revenants on ranged DPS. I’m sorry, but these are facts.

I’ve seen so many people doing the math in idiot form of way.
With all sincerity, I’ve seen the top people claiming 14K dps on Hybrid Granadier Engies (and yes, they dare to call it condition). Anyone who took that build into testing on a PvP golem couldn’t go past around 6K DPS unbuffed. Even the top players or streamers. With the proper rotation.
I peaked my numbers with a Remorseless GS build to 7500 per second on a 2 million damage test.

I won’t believe any numbers until I make them myself. That’s what I learned here in forums.

My Glint Mallyx Rev often do 18k~20k x 2 damage on a target with a 2 sec CD.

My fully ascended zerk ranger never even come close. Bristleback is nice and all but it has a long cd too. Plus ranger trades ALOT of survivability for the dps while Rev keep
everything while doing top range dps.

Btw 7.5k dps in melee range is nothing. Cond Berserker is doing like 30k dps in raid group. Glint/Jiro Sword Rev is doing like 20k+ dps raid too. (With perma quickness from Chrono)

You really need to try more classes before you make the claim. I have all classes fully geared and FULLY ASCENDED on all of them.

Aomine.5012:

My Glint Mallyx Rev often do 18k~20k x 2 damage on a target with a 2 sec CD.

In how much Damage Per Second that translates? Also, is it hammer?

Since you are obviously ahead of me in regard of profesions knowledge, how would you rank the ranged weapons from the different profs and builds? If possible with aproximate DPS, Thanks.

Sam.6483:

Aomine.5012:

My Glint Mallyx Rev often do 18k~20k x 2 damage on a target with a 2 sec CD.

In how much Damage Per Second that translates? Also, is it hammer?

Since you are obviously ahead of me in regard of profesions knowledge, how would you rank the ranged weapons from the different profs and builds? Is possible with aproximate DPS, Thanks.

Read my previous post.
I did give a small ranking between each classes and explain the situation requirement.

As to dps, it’d be lower than 36k dps ofc because hammer 2 still has a 2 secCD. But you’re still doing some damage when hammer 2 is not ready though. Also when swap to Glint, despite a dps lost, you can keep up more might/fury and spam a ground target high damage skill (facest) when your Mallyx is on CD.

Roughly speaking maybe you can expect a 22k range dps from hammer, providing you know the location of hitting foes twice with hammer 2.

Aomine.5012:

Sam.6483:

Aomine.5012:

My Glint Mallyx Rev often do 18k~20k x 2 damage on a target with a 2 sec CD.

In how much Damage Per Second that translates? Also, is it hammer?

Since you are obviously ahead of me in regard of profesions knowledge, how would you rank the ranged weapons from the different profs and builds? Is possible with aproximate DPS, Thanks.

Read my previous post.
I did give a small ranking between each classes and explain the situation requirement.

As to dps, it’d be lower than 36k dps ofc because hammer 2 still has a 2 secCD. But you’re still doing some damage when hammer 2 is not ready though. Also when swap to Glint, despite a dps lost, you can keep up more might/fury and spam a ground target high damage skill (facest) when your Mallyx is on CD.

Roughly speaking maybe you can expect a 22k range dps from hammer, providing you know the location of hitting foes twice with hammer 2.

Something seems bugged on my browser, couldn’t see your answer. I understand now. Just couple of questions more. LB warr, condition or power buid (I also wonder why its not commonly cited as one of the highest ranged dps)? And how much you think ranger can get in ideal situation, ie double LB, best pet, static target? Thanks again.

Condi war is off the charts DPS and is probably getting nerfed next update. It hasn’t been listed in common knowledge because it’s relatively new and the average player is apparently too stupid to see what anet gave us.

It’s taken over the raid meta though after nike called attention to the blatantly obvious build.

Hi Guys, again I’m gonna go slightly off-topic, because I’m slightly stunned.

Here I have learned, that it is actually possible, to make very powerfull strikes, if you time your skills. Anyway, a hit with 44k damage earns my awe. So, I also think 36k to be pretty neat. But what robs me of my speech is, that you are actually talking about dps, not a single/a few hit(s).

Do you really mean 36k dps, as in 36000 damage per second? It’s not a burst, but something you can keep up?

Edit: I might add, that don’t know other classes very well, having only a ranger/druid and a engi that I actively play.

Yes, sustained damage. Maul is actually used in one of ranger’s sustained damage builds via quickdraw, but colossal max damage mauls aren’t practical.

edit: the DPS is also an average. If you could do a 44k hit every 4 seconds, you’d be doing like 17k DPS.

Aomine.5012:

My Glint Mallyx Rev often do 18k~20k x 2 damage on a target with a 2 sec CD.

My fully ascended zerk ranger never even come close. Bristleback is nice and all but it has a long cd too. Plus ranger trades ALOT of survivability for the dps while Rev keep
everything while doing top range dps.

Btw 7.5k dps in melee range is nothing. Cond Berserker is doing like 30k dps in raid group. Glint/Jiro Sword Rev is doing like 20k+ dps raid too. (With perma quickness from Chrono)

You really need to try more classes before you make the claim. I have all classes fully geared and FULLY ASCENDED on all of them.

I don’t think I do.
You missed the most important part. And that was a SELF PvP dummy dps test.
Without banners, 25 might or Food / nourishment.
Not a word about Raid DPS.
Raids are just one part of PvE. I can deal tripple damage on tequatl with Longbow. Does that count into this pointless “I’m the best” mindfest?

Moreover, seeing that you make a huge importance of cooldowns … Do you use DPS meter or do you assume the DPS by seeing the number?
With all due respect, 30K DPS in any kind of raid is a nonsense.
I’ve seen 34K ticks myself, but it has a long way to be called a damage per second.

With 30K DPS you could literally defeat Vale Guardian in 2 people and still manage the enrage in time. I’m sorry, but from here on I’ll call BS on your math.

You never counted cast times, after-cast or delay to match reality. Your DPS are assumptions. I’m sorry to disappoint.
You won’t convince me about DPS just because your ability has a 2 second cooldown.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Aomine.5012:

My Glint Mallyx Rev often do 18k~20k x 2 damage on a target with a 2 sec CD.

My fully ascended zerk ranger never even come close. Bristleback is nice and all but it has a long cd too. Plus ranger trades ALOT of survivability for the dps while Rev keep
everything while doing top range dps.

Btw 7.5k dps in melee range is nothing. Cond Berserker is doing like 30k dps in raid group. Glint/Jiro Sword Rev is doing like 20k+ dps raid too. (With perma quickness from Chrono)

You really need to try more classes before you make the claim. I have all classes fully geared and FULLY ASCENDED on all of them.

I don’t think I do.
You missed the most important part. And that was a SELF PvP dummy dps test.
Without banners, 25 might or Food / nourishment.
Not a word about Raid DPS.
Raids are just one part of PvE. I can deal tripple damage on tequatl with Longbow. Does that count into this pointless “I’m the best” mindfest?

Moreover, seeing that you make a huge importance of cooldowns … Do you use DPS meter or do you assume the DPS by seeing the number?
With all due respect, 30K DPS in any kind of raid is a nonsense.
I’ve seen 34K ticks myself, but it has a long way to be called a damage per second.

With 30K DPS you could literally defeat Vale Guardian in 2 people and still manage the enrage in time. I’m sorry, but from here on I’ll call BS on your math.

You never counted cast times, after-cast or delay to match reality. Your DPS are assumptions. I’m sorry to disappoint.
You won’t convince me about DPS just because your ability has a 2 second cooldown.

dude, people are telling you are wrong, the dps from the longbow is not the highest by far.
There was a guild that did the math and before hot when we still had a chance still the dps output was very average.

i know you want to believe the pewpew ranger ia any good, but if in something was the ranger ever good was in condi damage. not the best but much better than pewpew ranger.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Aomine.5012:

My Glint Mallyx Rev often do 18k~20k x 2 damage on a target with a 2 sec CD.

My fully ascended zerk ranger never even come close. Bristleback is nice and all but it has a long cd too. Plus ranger trades ALOT of survivability for the dps while Rev keep
everything while doing top range dps.

Btw 7.5k dps in melee range is nothing. Cond Berserker is doing like 30k dps in raid group. Glint/Jiro Sword Rev is doing like 20k+ dps raid too. (With perma quickness from Chrono)

You really need to try more classes before you make the claim. I have all classes fully geared and FULLY ASCENDED on all of them.

I don’t think I do.
You missed the most important part. And that was a SELF PvP dummy dps test.
Without banners, 25 might or Food / nourishment.
Not a word about Raid DPS.
Raids are just one part of PvE. I can deal tripple damage on tequatl with Longbow. Does that count into this pointless “I’m the best” mindfest?

Moreover, seeing that you make a huge importance of cooldowns … Do you use DPS meter or do you assume the DPS by seeing the number?
With all due respect, 30K DPS in any kind of raid is a nonsense.
I’ve seen 34K ticks myself, but it has a long way to be called a damage per second.

With 30K DPS you could literally defeat Vale Guardian in 2 people and still manage the enrage in time. I’m sorry, but from here on I’ll call BS on your math.

You never counted cast times, after-cast or delay to match reality. Your DPS are assumptions. I’m sorry to disappoint.
You won’t convince me about DPS just because your ability has a 2 second cooldown.

VG has different mechanic and certain phases that he splits that you can’t dps him all the time. As far as raid meta go, which is 2 PS War 3 Berserkers, 1 Druid, 2 Chrono 1 Herald, 1 Tempest, you can see that only 5 classes in such composition does significant damage. Yet they sitll manage to kill it in around THREE MINUTES, despite VG does has time which he splits and you can’t damage him, so realistically they only spend around half of that time dpsing VG.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3xubpi/vc_vale_guardian_312_and_gorseval_322_speedkills/

How about you prove me wrong with your pewpew LB/LB ranger in VG record run then? If it’s as good as you claimed, I’d like to see an even faster run with your 5~6 rangers composition. You can even try to grab your LB/LB ranger in a proper group and see the dps difference. If people know LB/LB does more damage, they’d have take it in the first place.

As for Teq, lol, my Revenant can hit Teq 5 times consistently with each hammer 2. Teq has the largest hit-box ever. Ranger doesn’t even come close (Do note I used to always run my ranger in Teq, now I only run Revenant because I tested and find out significant dps differences)

Boon and buff-wise, both Revenant and Berserkers are giving out lots of boons/ mights/fury, as well as unique buff like banners. You actually make your argument weaker by bringing out boons as argument because Rev and Berserker are 2 main boon bot classes, just slightly below the OP Chrono.

One more thing, people do manage to beat VG within enrage timer with FIVE people only. Your 2-man argument is actually possible if VG doesn’t has so many additional mechanics. But since VG has other mechanics, 2 man is still not doable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3xhs8k/king_5_man_vale_guardian_kill/

You can stay ignorant and pretend not to see, while other people run much more powerful builds.

you shouldn’t try to compute dps in a bubble, if you’re going to assume buffs for a revenant then you should do the same for the ranger whether or not they can generate them themselves. assuming buffs means that you’re assuming group dps increases.

ele and berserker warrior most likely outdps ranger lb by a great deal. Being able to combine a strong condition plus strong direct damage makes them great at range. They also have the added bonus of doing a lot of their damage AoE.

ranger LB most likely outdamages revenant LB even with 2-3 targets because rangers do more direct damage at range. viper/sinister has increased the gap between condi and pure direct damage classes because it buffs all their dps not just part of it. Ranger and Revenant hammers suffer from not doing hybrid damage.

DH likely falls just behind these four as they can apply quite a bit of burning through traits and also do a good amount of direct damage. DH is probably the slowest attacker of the group using a ranged weapon though.

Prophet.1584:

you shouldn’t try to compute dps in a bubble, if you’re going to assume buffs for a revenant then you should do the same for the ranger whether or not they can generate them themselves. assuming buffs means that you’re assuming group dps increases.

ele and berserker warrior most likely outdps ranger lb by a great deal. Being able to combine a strong condition plus strong direct damage makes them great at range. They also have the added bonus of doing a lot of their damage AoE.

ranger LB most likely outdamages revenant LB even with 2-3 targets because rangers do more direct damage at range. viper/sinister has increased the gap between condi and pure direct damage classes because it buffs all their dps not just part of it. Ranger and Revenant hammers suffer from not doing hybrid damage.

DH likely falls just behind these four as they can apply quite a bit of burning through traits and also do a good amount of direct damage. DH is probably the slowest attacker of the group using a ranged weapon though.

I’m assuming buffs for ranger’s LB too, because with SotP and bristleback, I can maintain 25 stacks of mights for quite some time, yet that dps still fall short of Rev’s hammer, especially against bosses with larger hit box.

Aomine.5012:

One more thing, people do manage to beat VG within enrage timer with FIVE people only. Your 2-man argument is actually possible if VG doesn’t has so many additional mechanics. But since VG has other mechanics, 2 man is still not doable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3xhs8k/king_5_man_vale_guardian_kill/

You can stay ignorant and pretend not to see, while other people run much more powerful builds.

That’s still … More than DOUBLE the DPS of what was achieved. And they avoided the green circles damage. Which means the mechanics are doable.

I’m not saying Longbow DPS is better than other classes.
I’m saying Ranged DPS on single target is better, including having the pet and being self sufficient on might stacking.

None of you have ever specified under what circumstances, under which buffs or against which enemies, or how many of them.

I didn’t question your experience. I questioned your sense of Maths. And I never stopped. You are still way off.

So essentialy, we have good educated guesses about the ranking of the dps of the ranged weapons in ideal PvE settings (all buffs, minimal movement, etc), but its only guesses and there is no yet hard math to crunch and show real numbers?

This means that there is no much point of heated debate, because it boils down to trying to prove feelings without real data to back it up.

I love it when we all get along

Sam.6483:

So essentialy, we have good educated guesses about the ranking of the dps of the ranged weapons in ideal PvE settings (all buffs, minimal movement, etc), but its only guesses and there is no yet hard math to crunch and show real numbers?

This means that there is no much point of heated debate, because it boils down to trying to prove feelings without real data to back it up.

Rangers are currently the top tier solo roamers for Ranged combat.
They have easy access of full 25 might uptime for both pet and yourself – having the highest DPS.

Other classes with niche mechanics like double/tripple hitting with 1 ability can beat it according to hit box.

Nearly everyone beats Ranger in ranged DPS if all buffs from all classes are available.
Rangers lack scalings and would require the buffs to affect both pet and himself.

Since we are still living in stacking meta (until 90+ fractals), you’d basically be alone at range with personal buffs only. In majority of PvE content.

About the Maths … Well … How would you like to calculate it? For every single encounter alone? For every situation alone?
That’s way too troublesome for anyone to answer that part of the question.

Tragic Positive.9356:

About the Maths … Well … How would you like to calculate it? For every single encounter alone? For every situation alone?
That’s way too troublesome for anyone to answer that part of the question.

No, just for one specific case, like I said, ideal set up, best gear, all buffs, static boss, some fixed most common value for armor like heavy armor golem, etc. My feeling is that somehow the ranger with longbow is on par or better then herald hammer, but its only feeling and poor math, and I couldn’t find anything to back me up with facts and give real numbers and likely it will stay only feeling, because the GW2 community lacks the number nerds of WoW and other games. I don’t say better, useful or anything, I simply wonder about the theorycrafting if anybody bothered to do it, but seems no.

@Sam

Well, I believe everyone answered you already, then.
It’s not like GW2 community lacks the Math nerds. In contrast to WoW – we are forced to sit back for 20 minutes and do it all manually without any proper Testing dummies, DPS meters and alike.
And frankly, even I who did it countless of times will think twice about a challenge like this.

In ideal setup – rangers are behind. There’s no way around it. If that’s the answer you was looking for, then others already told it long time ago. They never specified the circumstances but they did answer your question.

does it matter that much anymore? 3 years in to this game and people are still talking about how ranger (or insert profession here) sucks so hard and can’t do x content. what most people have found is that All the professions are viable in all game modes and the only thing you really need to look for are filling specific roles to improve play. You need buff bots, for raids you need a support person and a tank, you also need to fill dps roles with either power or condi dps. sure some classes do better than others but if you’re playing with friends it shouldn’t matter what you bring. If your playing with pugs bring what they need.

Another thing that should be taking into consideration is Piercing when in a multi-target context. Ranger has the advantage in this case compared to DH.