Guild Wars 2

So, based on my last thread, this is a comprehensive class change to the Ranger. There are many players who are tired of being tied to the pet 100% of the time. The changes I suggest here are aimed at making playing a beastmaster still viable, while opening option for people who want to play a medium armoured skirmisher without the pet. I went line by line through our traits, moving the most pet-centric ones to beastmastery, rearranging others to places that make more sense.

First off, changes to the F1-F4 skills. F1 will act as a toggle for attack/return. F2 is still the pet F2 skill (this should interrupt any other action the pet is performing). F3 will be pet swap, F4 is now Stow Pet. When a pet is stowed, it will NOT come back out till summoned by the ranger. Rangers with a stowed pet gain a 30% boost to weapon skill damage.

So, we have traits:

Marksmanship:

Major traits

A: Opening Strike – you and your pet cause vulnerability with your first strike when entering combat. Opening strike always critical hits.
M: Eagle Eye – Increase longbow, shortbow and harpoon gun range. Increase longbow, shortbow and harpoon gun damage by 5% (longbow 1500, shorbow 1200)
G: Precise Strikes – Need Idea for here.

1: Steady Focus – Damage is increased when endurance is full
2: Melandru’s Wrath – Spirits deal damage when summoned. (new trait)
3: Keen Edge – use Shapening Stone when you strike a foe below the health threshold
4: Signet Mastery – Reduces recharge on signets
5: Predator’s Instinct – Apply cripple to foes you hit while they are below the HP threshold
6: Quick Draw – Bow skills recharge 20% faster

7: Predatory Season – Deal 5% more damage when within 300 range of your target. (new trait)
8: Piercing Arrows – All arrow attacks pierce targets
9: Beastmaster’s might – Activating a signet grants might.
10: Signet of the Beastmaster – active effects of signets also affect your pet.

11: Read the Wind – Arrows travel 100% faster (new trait)
12: Remorseless – Regain Opening Strike whenever you kill a foe or gain stealth

I moved most of the bow-centric traits to Marksmanship. Other changes are simply moving things around to more sensible positions. Added new traits

Skirmishing:

Major Traits

A: Tail Wind: Gain Swiftness on weapon swap
M: Furious Grip: Gain fury on weapon swap
G: Hunter’s Tactics: Deal more damage while flanking

1: Pet’s Prowess – Pets do more damage on critical hits
2: Sharpened Edges – Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits
3: Offhand Training – Offhand weapon skills recharge 20% faster and have longer range.
4: Primal Reflexes – Gain vigor when struck by a critical hit
5: Companion’s Might – Pet’s gain might on critical hit
6: Disrupting Accuracy – 30% chance to interrupt on critical hits with bows.

7: Spotter – Increases precision of nearby allies.
8: Martial Mastery – Sword, greatsword and spear skills recharge 20% faster
9: Honed Axes – You deal more critical damage while wielding an axe in your main hand.
11:Bestial Fury – 10% chance to gain fury on critical hit.

11: Moment of Clairty – gain an attack of opportunity for you and your pet on interrupting a foe. Daze and stun durations you inflict last longer.
12: Practiced Stance – 15% increased critical chance when wielding a 1h weapon. (new trait)

Moved the skirmishing style traits to, surprise, skirmishing. Moved the trap traits to WS, since that’s the traitline that deals with condition damage. Added new traits.

Wilderness Survival

A: Natural Vigor – Increases endurance regeneration by 50%.
M: Companions Defense – You and your pet gain protection on dodge.
G: Peak Strength – Deal extra damage while you HP is above threshold.

1: Soften the Fall – Create Muddy Terrain when you take falling damage. You take less damage from falling.
2: Expert’s Focus – traps recharge 20% faster (new trait)
3: Shared Anguish – Incoming disables are transferred to your pet instead.
4: Vigorous Renewal – Gain vigor when using a healing skill.
5: Wilderness Knowledge – Reduce recharge on Survival Skills.
6: Survivalist – Using a survival skill blinds nearby foes. (new trait)

7: Trap Potency – Conditions applied by traps last longer and traps cover a greater area. (new trait)
8: Oakheart Salve – Gain regeneration when you suffer from bleeding, poison or burning.
9: Hide in Plain Sight – Applies camouflage when you are dazed, knocked down, launched, pushed back, or stunned.
10: Expert’s Dexterity – Survival Skills grant 5s Fury on use. (new trait)

11: Bark Skin – You and your pet take less damage while you HP is below threshold
12: Trapper’s Expertise – Traps now use ground targetting 900 range

I moved traps based traits here, because, well, conditions, duh. Added new traits revolving around survival skills, since they have the potential to be powerful, but as is are rather, meh.

Also broke up the trap traits into different chunks, so that running traps would be viable without going full out into the line, and be very powerful when traited for fully. No more all-or-nothing. Now it would be “good – better!”

Nature Magic:

A: Rejuvenation – Gain regeneration when your health drops below the threshold.
M: Bountiful Hunter: You and your pet deal more damage when you have a boon
G: Natures Renewal: Gain healing power based on your vitality (new trait)

1: Circle of Life – Create a healing spring on your pet’s death. (new trait)
2: Concentration Training – Boons applied by your pets last longer.
3: Nature’s Bounty – Regeneration you apply lasts longer.
4: Vigorous Spirits – Spirits have increased health and a greater chance to trigger their benefits.
5: Strength of Spirit – Gain power based on your vitality.
6: Nature’s Protection – Receive protection when you take damage greater than a percentage of your maximum health.

7: Nature’s Vengeance – Activated skills of spirits are larger and trigger when the spirit is killed.
8: Evasive Purity – Dodging removes blind and one other condition from you
9: Two Handed Training – Greatsword and spear damage is increased
10: Melandru’s Boon – Using a signet grants 5s vigor. (new trait)

11: Spirit’s Unbound – Spirits can move and follow you.
12: Nature’s Voice – Shouts apply regenration and swiftness to allies.

Fewer changes here – mostly adjusting some traits, and adding new ones to replace traits moved to Beastmastery. Most notable would be the change to Evasive Purity.

Beastmastery:

A: Loud Whistle – Reduce rechage on pet swap
M: Zephyr’s Speed – Gain 4s quickness on pet swap
G: Empathic Bond – Pet’s periodically take conditions from you

1: Speed Training – Reduces recharge on pet skills
2: Master’s Bond – Your pets have a bond with you that increases their attirbutes each time you kill a foe – only resets when defeated.
3: Shout Mastery – Reduces the recharge on shouts.
4: Expertise Training – Pets deal extra condition damage.
5: Commanding Voice – Pet F2 skills recharge faster.
6: Agility Training – Pets move faster.

7: Rending Strikes – Pet’s cause bleed on critical hits with their basic attacks.
8: Beastmaster’s Bond – You gain might and fury when your pet’s health falls below 50%
9: Intimidation Training – Pet’s F2 abilities cause cripple when activated.
10: Thick Hide – Pet’s gain 5s protection when taking more than 10% of their HP in damage. (new trait)

11: Companionship – your pet gains 25% boost to Power/Toughness/Vitality/Precision (new trait)
12: Natural Healing – Your pets have native health regeneration.

Lots and lots of changes here. The pet based traits from other lines got moved here. Just did away with traits that (IMO) are completely useless. Made other’s (the training style traits) universal across pets.

Pet base functionality would always include alpha training (pets have opening strike) and Fortifying Bond (All boons are shared with your pet)

These are changes to make the focus on the ranger, rather than the pet, and to allow for some more variety in how we’re building our rangers. Just so it’s clear, the default behaviour of the signet Active will affect the Ranger, they’ll only affect the pet is you use the new Signet of the Beastmaster.

Skill changes.

Signets:

Signet of Renewal – Passive: Remove a condition from you and your pet every 10 seconds. Active: Remove all conditions. Cooldown 45 (forty five) s.
Signet of Stone – Passive: Improve toughness for you and your pet. Active: Gain 8s Stability. Cooldown 60s.
Signet of the Hunt – Passive: You and your pet move 25% faster. Active: Gain fury for 10s. Cooldown 40s.
Signet of the Wild – Passive: You and your pet have health regen. (200hp/s) Active: You gain protection for 5s. Cooldown 60s

The signet changes are all based on the warrior and guardian signets. If the signet effect isn’t OP on a warrior or guardian, it cannot be OP on a ranger.

1 Handed Sword:

Remove the leap/root function from the Auto Attack, change it to:

Slash – Slash your foe.
> Thrust – Cripple your foe
> Lunge – Stab your foe, your pet gains might

Monarch’s Leap – Leap to your foe, crippling them.

1H sword upsets a LARGE percentage of the ranger playerbase, due to the root on the auto-attack, and the inability to dodge. This is because of the animations that alter the foot position from basic movement. Do away with the leap/kick animation, and you’ve done away with the rooting problem. While some players (pvp folks) will complain, it would be, overall, a buff to the 1H sword.

Longbow:

Long Range Shot – remove range restriction.
Splinter Shot – Shoot an arrow at your foe – this arrow shatters, causing X damage to nearby foes. (new skill)
Hunter’s Shot – Shoot an arrow at your foe that grants you stealth when it hits an enemy. You gain Swiftness.
Point Blank Shot – Push back your foe with a point-blank shot. The closer they are, the farther it pushes them back.
Barrage – Barrage the target area with a hail of arrows that Immobilize for 1s.

The changes here are obvious ones – the range restriction on the LB is just bad, and devs should feel bad for putting it in game. Rapid fire, while fun, isn’t a huge DPS gain – replacing it with a small AoE can only improve our overall DPS. Putting the swiftness on the ranger instead of the pet via Hunter’s Shot is in line with making us more player-centric than pet-centric. Barrage get’s immobilize because, hey, it’s group utility.

Thanks for reading, and I’ll go through and update the OP’s as suggestions roll in. Also, I know there’s going to be people coming out of the woodwork defending the ranger as-is, but I’m going to ignore them, mightily. The ranger, as-is, is complete failsauce. There’s no excuse for this.

To compensate for a lack of a pet, the bow skills would need to be increased by more than 20%. Remember that pets account for about 40% of a given ranger’s damage. Therefore their overall damage would be 60 damage from weapon skills per 100 damage combined with a pet; so a 20% boost would put it to 72. That’s simply not enough considering the pet acts as an aggro soak, a healer, a form of DPS, AND has its own skills/effects.

Something like a 40% modifier is more or less necessary to compensate, especially when considering the pet HP buff, and the lack of synergy/buffs one can get from the pet/ranger interaction skills. This would put the ranger up to about 84% – a tolerable number, and one which compensates for downed pet time (as opposed to just going to the 100% area).

I honestly wouldn’t mind seeing Rapid Shot still around, but either acting as a DPS increase such as Hundred Blades, or simply having a reduced channel time with the same damage to apply stacks of vulnerability.

Immobilize duration would need to be short on Barrage. I think perhaps doing like 1s Immobilize on cast (before arrows come down to compensate for the delay), and then the standard cripple. I’d rather see a cooldown reduction on Barrage as to allow for better AOE potential, and therefore allowing Rapid Shot to be left as a skill without sacrificing the ability to more frequently tag and cripple larger groups. A long duration immobilize would simply be too strong in WvW/PvP.

Overall I support the thread and hope this gains some momentum/additional discussion.

Deceiver, I’m aware that the pet accounts for roughly 40% of our damage. I felt that a buff of 40% would be overkill though. I’m all for that level up buffing, but I know people would crawl out of the woodwork screaming about how OP that would make rangers. Depending on other’s feedback, I’ll edit the OP and change that particular value.

To see a 20% increase in damage throughput with no real changes involved in skills regarding play, and nothing really major regarding traits to help an archer build, I don’t see why increasing so heavily is an issue.

The ranger still faces from a 16% reduction in damage. While it’s great to make strides in trying to voice suggestions to help people get their point across, one must consider getting favorable opinions versus taking balance questions into account.

Now, if the trait lines and skill tree were to be significantly overhauled such that the dependency on pets for these bonuses’ effectiveness is dereased, thus allowing for bows to take such a hit to raw damage, then I’d be more in favor of sticking to lower numbers.

Going with only a 20% damage buff increase is just kind of silly, though. It makes the class more or less high-risk low-reward.

If ranged combat is the focus regarding LB, and buffs are worrysome regarding scaling due to the LB losing its damage reduction/scaling damage on range, then perhaps another possibility is to simply provide an immediate/non-scaling percentage penalty on LB damage when within close proximity (say, sword range). It therefore moves archers into their rightful place of trying to maintain a bit of distance (as the current design stands), and gives the LB archer a guaranteed weakness which must be overcome via good play, and with the number of readily-available, low-cooldown gap-closers in GW2, perhaps justifies such increased modifiers when making attacks at range.

Sorry for double post.
Although I’m not sure how to feel about Bestial Fury. Thief effectively has the same skill (Haste). With the quickness nerfs, nobody takes it due to its cooldown and real lack of benefit, however anything significantly better would put the trait being too strong.

Especially with Barrage, as each critical procs the chance to activate it. It effectively would guarantee a stack of quickness on barrage.

Totally agree with you guys, now all we need is Anet to agree too haha..

One can dream right?

I do like a lot of the changes here, though my personal nitpick is that we’d have to choose between Trapper’s Expertise or Bark Skin for the Grandmaster for Wilderness Survival. Lose that survivability at low health and gain the throwing of traps, or lose the throwing of traps but can survive a little longer…lose-lose IMO, at least for me.

Moving spotter to skirmishing would be more than fantastic …..

I dont think, that sorting the traits that way would be the best sollution. If I want to play a High damage bow/bow sniper-ranger I would need about 70 Points in Marksmanship.
And still the 300 precision and 30% crit damage of skirmishing.

I think some specific traits need to be in other traitlines, otherweise there will allways be a lose-lose situation.

Another Thread, another list of changes that seeks to totally redesign everything. Well, atleast you didn’t suggest to make the pet optional or completely redo the class mechanic in this thread. And also I agree with this person.

whyme.3281:

I dont think, that sorting the traits that way would be the best sollution. If I want to play a High damage bow/bow sniper-ranger I would need about 70 Points in Marksmanship.
And still the 300 precision and 30% crit damage of skirmishing.

I think some specific traits need to be in other traitlines, otherweise there will allways be a lose-lose situation.

I don’t like your trait changes. Just personal preference on current ones.
Besides, moving away pet is a bad idea. They just need some QoL fixes and more control over them by player and I think they’ll be perfectly fine. Honestly, I love having different pets. Giving them improvements and more variety/control make very unique mechanism. I’m after keeping pet with both hands, taking it away just decreases class overall skillcap which IMO even now is kind of low if you play certain builds.
On a side note: Why the hell would you give :
Predatory Season – Deal 5% more damage when within 300 range of your target. (new trait)

To a tree based on erm… “Marksmanship”? Made for Bows mostly (or at least, with idea of it) ? You know that erm… 5% is nothing and when playing with bows, you usually want to perform “Kiting” which, to shorten it up, is all about staying at max possible range, dealing damage with your bow all the time?
I think OP is mostly a PvE 1h sword/WH dungeon fast-runner

Don’t like your marks changes that much. I’m not convinced we should be required to take a trait to make signets work on us. With this trait still in marks after a redesign I’m really not changing much of anything if I want to continue using bows. I’ll need piercing arrows. I’ll want the signets for defense. I can’t really afford to try either of your grandmaster traits.

Also the grandmaster traits you suggested are incredibly weak. Remorseless seems like a strong trait on the surface but this class still lacks a hard hitting attack to use it on. The only option is Maul and until this class gets a trait to reduce the cooldown on weapon swap (I may have glanced over it if you suggested it?) that’s not a good solution. Arrow speed is also of no real value unless it comes with an attack speed increase too. While obstructed and missed arrows are a pain, I don’t miss too often. Certainly not enough to invest in a 30pt trait to reduce that chance and still only fire 1 shot every second.

Remorseless either needs to do much more, we need a way to swap back to a main weapon after using maul for burst, or we need a heavy hitting burst skill (either an aimed shot for longbow or a new skill to give us a new attack depending on the main hand weapon we are using).

Moment of Clarity also went unchanged with your revision. Much like remorseless, this trait is very underwhelming mostly because we don’t have a strong burst option. The only real value for this trait at all is to hiltbash + maul. But again, with no weapon swap cooldown this is almost never a good option because of how awful Greatsword’s damage is. Moment of Clarity either needs to be changed to increase damage for 5 seconds, it needs to trigger A LOT more often (any time you dodge/evade an attack), or we need more attacks added to our class to make better use of it.

Please, just change opening strikes! I feel like a traitline being based around a weakness is silly.

Also, if I may…. I think masters bond should be changed to be the minor traits. For example, 5 points into beast mastery activates the bond and you gain from there.

Keepers Bond – Every 15 seconds in combat your pet gains attributes based on its level up to a maximum of 25. Resets when out of combat. (Would reset at 1 point per 5 seconds)

Owners Bond- Every 10 seconds in combat your pet gains attributes based on its level up to a maximum of 25. Resets when out of combat. (Would reset at 1 point per 5 seconds)

Masters Bond- Every 5 seconds in combat your pet gains attributes based on its level up to a maximum of 25. Resets when out of combat. (Would reset at 1 point per 5 seconds)

Thanks Stale for putting such a remarkable documentation on how the ranger SHOULD be. Im hoping a dev would see this, although I feel it wont change anything.

Chrispy.5641:

Well, atleast you didn’t suggest to make the pet optional or completely redo the class mechanic in this thread. And also I agree with this person.

Seems to me like that’s one of the intended suggestions.

One must consider this, though: Why does an opinion supporting the requirement of pets matter more than an opinion disliking the mechanic and either asking for the possibility of not playing into it, or simply an alternative?

No opinion matters more than the other. Fact of the matter is that one of the opinions’ desired style of play isn’t accounted for in any class or build in the game.

This is the ideology I never understood about people who argue with the concept of the option of perma-stowing the pet; nobody’s asking for pet nerfs, just the ability to play in different ways. The easiest way of doing that is to simply modify the ranger tree/weapon skills, rather than implement either a whole new class or weapon paradigms with another existing class which makes sense (thief, ele).

But with proper discussion, if this thread stays maintained, I could see both groups of players (archers and beastmasters) appreciating the suggested changes.

Rym.1469:

I don’t like your trait changes. Just personal preference on current ones.
Besides, moving away pet is a bad idea. They just need some QoL fixes and more control over them by player and I think they’ll be perfectly fine. Honestly, I love having different pets. Giving them improvements and more variety/control make very unique mechanism. I’m after keeping pet with both hands, taking it away just decreases class overall skillcap which IMO even now is kind of low if you play certain builds.

I’m going to have to disagree with everything you’ve said here to be honest.
For one, your opinion supporting pets is no more significant than someone who dislikes them. Nobody’s asking for total pet removal; people are asking for the possibility to do so.

So in juxtaposition, based on those who prefer the archer style of play, the current tree and traits are underwhelming, and the playstyle is simply terrible.

I’d disagree regarding skill cap, too. Pets soak aggro and give a lot of utility. So much to the point where ANet realized that they failed to survive long enough due to them being aggro magnets, and therefore gave them more health.

This is what makes the ranger play too easily when using a bow. There’s literally no skill involved with maintaining distance or avoid getting hit/CC’ed to death, because the pet takes it all. I’d also even argue that the microing capabilities of the pet UI aren’t very substantial to call it a complex or high-skill class, either. The controls are simple, however there’s barely any control from this perspective. I genuinely suggest to people who talk about pet micro being a thing to play DoTA and try the character Meepo running maximum clones. That’s real micro, and THAT takes skill. Going in for an attack/f2, returning on low health, sending back out when you take aggro, and switching stances as to prevent you from getting into too much combat really doesn’t take any kind of microing skill.

Especially since the required pet lines are usually related to tanky builds with a lot of healing.

Hence why I suggested a penalty on ranged damage when in very close proximity. At least this requires the player to deal with the vast number of gap-closers and issues pertaining to multiple targets in the game, while effectively stacking mobility bonuses/reductions to keep kiting properly.

Aside from ele, I play every class in GW2 as 30/30/x/x/x with 10 points going somewhere else to maximize damage, running full berserker. I find myself not dying frequently and I believe I play on a level such that I don’t need a buffer of extra toughness, vitality, healing, or aggro soak to play better.

Rym.1469:

On a side note: Why the hell would you give :
Predatory Season – Deal 5% more damage when within 300 range of your target. (new trait)

To a tree based on erm… “Marksmanship”? Made for Bows mostly (or at least, with idea of it) ? You know that erm… 5% is nothing and when playing with bows, you usually want to perform “Kiting” which, to shorten it up, is all about staying at max possible range, dealing damage with your bow all the time?
I think OP is mostly a PvE 1h sword/WH dungeon fast-runner

I’m inclined to agree here. It belongs more in skirmishing.

DeceiverX.8361:

Chrispy.5641:

Well, atleast you didn’t suggest to make the pet optional or completely redo the class mechanic in this thread. And also I agree with this person.

Seems to me like that’s one of the intended suggestions.

One must consider this, though: Why does an opinion supporting the requirement of pets matter more than an opinion disliking the mechanic and either asking for the possibility of not playing into it, or simply an alternative?

No opinion matters more than the other. Fact of the matter is that one of the opinions’ desired style of play isn’t accounted for in any class or build in the game.

This is the ideology I never understood about people who argue with the concept of the option of perma-stowing the pet; nobody’s asking for pet nerfs, just the ability to play in different ways. The easiest way of doing that is to simply modify the ranger tree/weapon skills, rather than implement either a whole new class or weapon paradigms with another existing class which makes sense (thief, ele).

But with proper discussion, if this thread stays maintained, I could see both groups of players (archers and beastmasters) appreciating the suggested changes.

I think that what I said went over your head a little. If you frequent the forums and read on how many people want a simple “Stow pet, give rangers more DPS” option, you would understand why I made that comment.

Also, no, I do not like the trait suggestions.

• Moving the Traps into Wilderness survival now forces me to choose between traps, and survival options, as opposed to what I do now, with a Rabid build, and pick both.
• I now have to invest into a grandmaster trait to get ground target traps instead of a master.
• In order to be good with Traps, I now have to take 3 traits instead of 2, instead of getting to invest that trait into something else.
• Empathic bond was moved to Beastmastery, so, If I want the passive condition removal, I now have to invest into beastmastery instead of just wilderness survival.
• The reason why Spotter was in Marksmanship is so that way you can’t just get 150 points of free precision,…by investing into precision.
• which brings me to this….Why Practiced Stance? Sure the 15% increased critical chance is pretty good, but that is the equivelant of 315 extra points of precision, just for using the sword or axe? uh…I know I’ve suggested OP stuff before, but, that’s, kind of insane.
• Where the heck is Nature’s Wrath? While you might not think it was that useful, It is for certain builds (like with Cleric gear, or getting some extra power (because its nonexistent) with Apothecary or Magi gear). Removing a Trait because you don’t use it is not enough justification for suggesting that we get rid of it.
• I like Zephry’s Speed. You made it a Master-Minor trait instead of a Grandmaster-Major trait like it was before, and also gave us 1 more second of quickness than before. You made it more powerful while requiring less investment….Probably too OP(even for me!).

I like some trait suggestions, like Melandru’s Wrath, but for almost everything else…I could go on for a week if I had the time to, but I can’t…until tonight that is. But, here’s a few already, which I think are all very reasonable concerns for the suggestions made (especially since the suggestions seem to favor bows and pets mostly, while screwing everything else in the process.)

Fair enough. I interpreted it as you being directly opposed to any kind of alterations being made/vouching for the belief that pets should not be stow-able by stating this was “another thread.”

I’ll agree 15% crit chance is a bit high. Toning it down to like 5% might be more… fair. Perhaps crit damage is what should really become of this trait.

Traps in Wild Survival makes more sense conceptually, so I’m not so much opposed to the idea as perhaps leaning towards streamlining it a tad. I will agree with you in that ground target range on traps should be increased on the major-master level rather than master-grandmaster. Or possibly doing minor-major to reduce the necessary investment as to prevent said issues with it.

I believe Emphatic Bond doesn’t deserve to be a grand-master trait for what it currently is. Condi removal is too hard to come by without deep investment. Perhaps the healing skill Troll Unguent could be modified to cure conditions upon cast and then apply regeneration? I’m thinking something along the lines of a thief heal such that an occasional condi won’t wreck the ranger, but getting into a fight with a condi build will pretty much result in a challenge without investment in BM or nature magic.

Speaking of nature magic, I could certainly see Nature’s Wrath being the grandmaster bonus over Renewal. Makes sense to give some bonus damage to someone who invests so heavily in vitality.

ZS is interesting, though I don’t think it merits an increase in duration. It’d certainly put pet builds in a more competitive area for burst damage while not needing to invest too deeply into it.

OK, going to try to take all of these in one fell swoop, so bear with me.

Ryu – I personally never used the ranged trap option, but the other trap traits, to me, should be available with far less investment into a trait line. A little lose-lose in choosing is standard. To me, the ability to set a trap from range is extremely powerful, and deserves the grandmaster ranking – same with bark skin.

Sina – thank you. It seems to fit there better, in terms of flavour, anyway.

Whyme – with this trait setup, 30/20/x/x/x gets you every possible bow related trait.

Rym – I was running low on sleep, and just outright stole a trait from the ele traitline. If you can suggest something that’s not OP, but makes sense (and probably not bow related – remember, it’s also the power tree)

Chirspy – based on your views in previous threads, you and I will never agree on things. I say ranger, as it is, is hopelessy broken – you’re one who disagrees.

Atherakhia.4086 – I changed the signets to always affect US, and only affect the pets if you take the signet of the beastmaster. Read the Wind is to offset the fact that you can side-step and avoid all the longbow attacks. Increased projectile speed = harder to dodge. The other grandmaster traits you mentioned I didn’t alter because they seem to have niche uses. That, and it’s seems presumptuous to alter everything.

Chrispy/DeceiverX – the 15% crit chance is taken DIRECTLY from guardians. If it’s not OP for them as a grandmaster trait, it’s not OP for us either.

I’ve also spread more condition removal around – just the changed signet does that.

Re: nature’s wrath. I literally couldn’t think of one situation where it was better than the alternatives. Ever. Possibly I’m missing something from the 5v5 playstyle – I only do PvE (champs and dungeons) WvW and guild stuff. I admit I’ll have blind spots.

Also, for the record, when I do play my Ranger (which is rare, these days) it’s as a longbow/greatsword setup. I’m aware of the different playstyles though, and have no urge to neuter them.

Aden Celeste – thanks for the praise.

As I’ve set things up, anything should be viable with minimal investment. Want to be a bow wielder? 30/x/x/x/x. One handed weapons more your style? /x/30/x/x/x. Traps and survival? x/x/10-30/x/x. Even a build that’s 20/20/20/10/0 gets decent bow use, team support, survival with decent PBAoE traps, and spirits.

My goal was to make the 30 pt investment make good options great, while lesser investment still is worthwhile – something lacking from the current setup. Right now, each of our traitlines is essentially go 30 or go home.

Once I have more coffee in me, I’ll try to think of some decent changes based on criticism – but I’ll be working all weeekend as well, so I probably won’t do many updates till Monday.

Keep the discussion going, folks!

Deciever, right now condition removal (with my traits) are Evasive purity (20pt investment) Signet of Renewal (removed the active that kills your pet – clears all conditions instead) or, the expected Empathic Bond. I never used it, doesn’t seem worth the 30pt investment to me, but I know that many many bunkers use it. There’s also Healing Spring. I agree we need more on-demand condition removal, but I thought these were a step in the right direction.

Hedgehog – what would you change Opening Strikes to?

Also, just redid something from my notes – I’d meant to consolidate Opening Strike and Precise Strikes – but that leaves me with a unfilled 25pt Grandmaster slot. Suggestions?

OK – for the nasty, NASTY PM claiming I’m trying to ruin your bows. (work on vocabulary too – 11 motherhumpers in 5 sentences is too much. I’ll post reply here instead of just reporting/deleting it – and I won’t post your PM, since you’re generally a nice guy on the forums)

Take my traits, and build 30/20/20/0/0

You get:

Marksmanahip:

All the major traits. Opening strike, Eagle eye, and yet-to-be-determined.
6. Quick Draw – bow skills recharge 20% faster.
8. Piercing Arrows – your arrows pierce Targets.
11. Read the Wind – your arrows travel 100% faster. (that’s twice as fast)

Skirmishing:

Tailwind and Furious Grip
6: Disrupting Accuracy – 30% chance to interrupt on critical hits with bows.
7: Spotter – Increases precision of nearby allies.

Wilderness Survival:

Natural Vigor, Companions Defense
5: Wilderness Knowledge – Reduce recharge on Survival Skills.
6: Survivalist – Using a survival skill blinds nearby foes. (new trait)

To me, that would give us a far more powerful archer than what is currently possible.

Also, for the added bonus, with some trait swapping, you could be a sword/WH wielding trap setting monster, or a signet using greatsword wielding Aragorn type.

Believe me, I tried to think of all the possible builds while I was doing this. Really, I gave beastmasters the least thought of any, since it’s a style of play that doesn’t appeal to me, but I didn’t even ignore them.

EDIT: without coffee, my math is bad, and I feel bad. fixed.

Where do you get that extra 10 trait points from?

Yeah – no coffee, my math is bad

so drop it to 30/20/20, and lost “hide in plain sight”. still ahead of where we are now.

stale.9785:

OK – for the nasty, NASTY PM claiming I’m trying to ruin your bows. (work on vocabulary too – 11 motherhumpers in 5 sentences is too much. I’ll post reply here instead of just reporting/deleting it – and I won’t post your PM, since you’re generally a nice guy on the forums)

Take my traits, and build 30/20/20/0/0

You get:

Marksmanahip:

All the major traits. Opening strike, Eagle eye, and yet-to-be-determined.
6. Quick Draw – bow skills recharge 20% faster.
8. Piercing Arrows – your arrows pierce Targets.
11. Read the Wind – your arrows travel 100% faster. (that’s twice as fast)

Skirmishing:

Tailwind and Furious Grip
6: Disrupting Accuracy – 30% chance to interrupt on critical hits with bows.
7: Spotter – Increases precision of nearby allies.

Wilderness Survival:

Natural Vigor, Companions Defense
5: Wilderness Knowledge – Reduce recharge on Survival Skills.
6: Survivalist – Using a survival skill blinds nearby foes. (new trait)

To me, that would give us a far more powerful archer than what is currently possible.

Also, for the added bonus, with some trait swapping, you could be a sword/WH wielding trap setting monster, or a signet using greatsword wielding Aragorn type.

Believe me, I tried to think of all the possible builds while I was doing this. Really, I gave beastmasters the least thought of any, since it’s a style of play that doesn’t appeal to me, but I didn’t even ignore them.

EDIT: without coffee, my math is bad, and I feel bad. fixed.

Your proposed Ranger is by far weaker than my current 20/20/30/0/0 one. Arrows flying 50% faster? No, thank you. It could be side effect of one of the spirits, same like in GW1, but GM trait? Please.
Other thing : Moving Quick Draw means that I have to give up either on Steady Focus, which is great damage boost when sniping or Malicious Training, absolutely amazing trait if you run double paralyzation spider.
You move EB to BM, which neutralizes my passive condition removal to SoR, which is crap and just too little+takes space on utility bar.
Overall, I’m sure that I perform better now on W3 rather than I’ after your changes.
As I look upon traits, I’d have to go another boring sword or condition build. None of them is effective enough, none of them utilizes kiting, none of them requires you to think. Sorry, but I’ll keep my current traits and wait for better times

stale.9785:

Chirspy – based on your views in previous threads, you and I will never agree on things. I say ranger, as it is, is hopelessy broken – you’re one who disagrees.

Chrispy/DeceiverX – the 15% crit chance is taken DIRECTLY from guardians. If it’s not OP for them as a grandmaster trait, it’s not OP for us either.

(1) – Darn right I disagree! I don’t think the ranger is hopelessly broken, but it does need some tweaks to its traits here and there.

For example, why does Two Handed Training only increase damage by 5% when wielding Greatsword and Spears, but, the Warrior’s Slashing Power trait increases it by 10%? (Guardian’s trait is only 5%, but also has an added effect) What reason could there be? (mesmers in my opinion are even worse off than we are as far as greatswords go, just saying…)

(2) – oops….yeah I actually did forget about that one…

I would like to see Healing Power bonus moved to natures magic and vitality moved to beastmastery as most of the traits in natures magic have to do with healing and regen. Strength of Spirit trait would need to be moved as well since its more power based on vitality. A perfect fit would be to swap it for shout mastery.