Guild Wars 2

the title is rly it im just trying to use the 15 characters here.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_Stealth_Trapper

Bast Bow.2958:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_Stealth_Trapper

That build is just awful against anyone with half a brain.

@Op, there really isn’t a good condi build for wvw anymore. The last decent one (crit bleed) took a random nerf on the most recent balance patch.
Ranger condi builds really require you to be on top of your opponent and for them to be locked down, but most of the professions either have a passive cc immunity to ignore things like spike trap, or they have stun breaks on a really short cooldown. All the other roaming professions can easily shrug off immobilize.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Bast Bow.2958:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_Stealth_Trapper

That build is just awful against anyone with half a brain.

@Op, there really isn’t a good condi build for wvw anymore. The last decent one (crit bleed) took a random nerf on the most recent balance patch.
Ranger condi builds really require you to be on top of your opponent and for them to be locked down, but most of the professions either have a passive cc immunity to ignore things like spike trap, or they have stun breaks on a really short cooldown. All the other roaming professions can easily shrug off immobilize.

well said.

Condi Druid isn’t that bad because it’s carried by its immense sustain, but it isn’t really viable since it has no way to deal with resistance spam, and it gets beaten by condi Mesmer/Necro pretty easily, and you take a huge mobility hit when compared to Staff boon Druid..

I really wish they would give SB another buff, particularly the autoattack bleeds and perhaps causing SB2 to take off a boon per poison arrow.

roamzero.9486:

Condi Druid isn’t that bad because it’s carried by its immense sustain, but it isn’t really viable since it has no way to deal with resistance spam, and it gets beaten by condi Mesmer/Necro pretty easily, and you take a huge mobility hit when compared to Staff boon Druid..

I really wish they would give SB another buff, particularly the autoattack bleeds and perhaps causing SB2 to take off a boon per poison arrow.

Actually i think SB mostly needs the boost in range. 1200, fixing the quickshot so it’s not so useless and clunky, and increase the immo from crippling shot to 2 seconds so it’s noticeable.

Other than that Ranger in general needs more than just a lazy fix.

Quick shot needs the super speed that had been requested multiple times. They increased everyones mobility, having a little more swiftness isn’t helping a kittening thing.

But for a condi wvw build to truly be viable we still need a main hand condi weapon (not kittening hybrid) with a forward leap.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Quick shot needs the super speed that had been requested multiple times. They increased everyones mobility, having a little more swiftness isn’t helping a kittening thing.

But for a condi wvw build to truly be viable we still need a main hand condi weapon (not kittening hybrid) with a forward leap.

Those are words of wisdom.

i agree with all of that although quickshot needs more than just the superspeed. it need to become a leap so you can combo fields, a directional arrow so its not so wonky to use and could benefit greatly to cleanse immobile as the ranger doesn’t have access to either stability or cleanses immobilise, which is absurd for a single target class were positioning is supposed to be the defining aspect.

Axe mainhand should became our condi weapon, and dagger 5 should give a 1200 shadowstep with ground target in short cd.

But like if I were to do wvw on a condi druid/ranger, what would be the mostr optimal build

Moriyo.2465:

But like if I were to do wvw on a condi druid/ranger, what would be the mostr optimal build

Depends what you are trying to do.
The trap build will let you solo a camp really quickly but you’ll get wrecked by pretty much every decent roamer.

You could run something like sb, sword/x with skirmishing, WS/survival traits, and druid and you’d be extremely hard for any other condi builds to kill but you’d be vulnerable to burst damage. With that the bulk of your damage would be from bleeds so you’d need to build to add cover conditions. This means doing stuff like running a decent amount of precision and investing in a sigil of torment. For the second sigil you might consider frailty for another cover or nullification to hopefully strip resistance.

Both builds are pretty useless if you are planning to just hop in the pug zerg. Either will work in a small group but neither are optimal.

Moriyo.2465:

But like if I were to do wvw on a condi druid/ranger, what would be the mostr optimal build

you don’t, we are not talking about optimal here but to be able to survive (not even win) if you roam (the only reason you would take a condi over healer in wvw).

The problem with ranger\druid is you are stuck with just one build\gameplay.
you may choose WS over NM but the gamestyle is the same, you only bring more cleanses in exchange for tankiness.

If you want condi archer you should try DH. if you want condi healer Rev with ventari\malix is the choice. Druid is not.

anduriell.6280:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Bast Bow.2958:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_Stealth_Trapper

That build is just awful against anyone with half a brain.

@Op, there really isn’t a good condi build for wvw anymore. The last decent one (crit bleed) took a random nerf on the most recent balance patch.
Ranger condi builds really require you to be on top of your opponent and for them to be locked down, but most of the professions either have a passive cc immunity to ignore things like spike trap, or they have stun breaks on a really short cooldown. All the other roaming professions can easily shrug off immobilize.

well said.

Hm ok. Haven’t really looked at it and assumed it was fine. Most metabattle PvE builds are fine.

Big Kiss for little anduriell

Quite curious how noone mentions/knows of Gladomers Dire-Druid build.
http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNMQRAnY8fjEqQNL2yC+rAVLW4EM4W6Ntn683GAHumhVfLAUxKpA-TRiAABJ8AASU/AAHEgl2f4U1f44IAIpSwKOBAip8LAACwMLzysMDO6RP6RP6RjUAwMNC-e
He plays it a lot on his stream, and he rocks with it. It seems like a fightingstyle that takes a bit getting used to, but it’s a good condi ranger build.
It’s also manages to make this build a hell for the condi stealth trapper thieves.
I have not tried it myself yet, but I want to do it at some point.

Ranys.4028:

Quite curious how noone mentions/knows of Gladomers Dire-Druid build.
http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNMQRAnY8fjEqQNL2yC+rAVLW4EM4W6Ntn683GAHumhVfLAUxKpA-TRiAABJ8AASU/AAHEgl2f4U1f44IAIpSwKOBAip8LAACwMLzysMDO6RP6RP6RjUAwMNC-e
He plays it a lot on his stream, and he rocks with it. It seems like a fightingstyle that takes a bit getting used to, but it’s a good condi ranger build.
It’s also manages to make this build a hell for the condi stealth trapper thieves.
I have not tried it myself yet, but I want to do it at some point.

No one mentioned it because it contains all the same weaknesses that have already been discussed. It has no chase potential and requires you to lock down and be on top of your enemy, and the build lacks the tools to lock down any decent roamers.

It’s basically an outdated dueling build.

Dunno, I see a lot of lockdown/Chase potential in it, but I guess I’ll see it when I try it out myself.

Ranys.4028:

Dunno, I see a lot of lockdown/Chase potential in it, but I guess I’ll see it when I try it out myself.

how do you trigger ancient seeds not rng based?
how do you generate boons for the adept trait in nm?
you dont have any leaps (sword 2 its the same as go running), how do you chase anything that is not a necro?
Also damage is probably crap as your only source of might is the axe. You heal is bad with mich healing , TU will be eaten by just the condis or any burst they land on you.

A burn guardian can and will put on you 16 burning stacks from range. Tell me how that can compete with the melee aoe bonfire.

Ranys.4028:

Dunno, I see a lot of lockdown/Chase potential in it, but I guess I’ll see it when I try it out myself.

It’s most glaring flaw that makes it out dated is signet of renewal over quickening zephyr.

anduriell.6280:

how do you trigger ancient seeds not rng based?

He’d be relying on the wolf’s brutal charge which is pretty unlikely to land, the terrifying howl which has a very long cooldown (and still misses moving targets pretty often), or lunar impact/natural convergence which is something he will have to save for emergency situations since he doesn’t have great access to astral force regen.

Which means unless he is in a group he might get lucky and proc ancient seeds 1 time per fight which will give him the opportunity to watch them instantly teleport, cleanse, dodge, or just walk out of it.

You guys make it sound like condi builds are totally obsolete rather than sub optimal. Many people, myself included, occasionally run condi druid and do absolutely fine. Glad still wins like 95% of his encounters despite usually playing half afk.

SB also solves ancient seeds and swiftness problems.

Anything not using staff is slightly hampered, but slightly hampered still obliterates most roamers.

Fluffball.8307:

You guys make it sound like condi builds are totally obsolete rather than sub optimal. Many people, myself included, occasionally run condi druid and do absolutely fine. Glad still wins like 95% of his encounters despite usually playing half afk.

SB also solves ancient seeds and swiftness problems.

Anything not using staff is slightly hampered, but slightly hampered still obliterates most roamers.

Suboptimal is exactly what we’ve been saying.
Nothing we’ve stated is untrue, we are just explaining to the op what the builds weaknesses are since he is new to it.

For a druid condi build to be successful you need to count on your opponent being unprepared or over committing. It works for dueling but a good roaming build needs more mobility to chase people down and to escape from zergs. It is far too easy for solo players to just ignore you and run on by if they feel like they can’t handle the fight.

Running from zergs isn’t a big deal. If they want to chase a roamer I think that’s a huge win for your team. Most are smart enough to run past, and if a few drop off to hunt you, well good look killing a dire druid. Beside that’s what you’re probably looking for anyway.

They also do enough condi burst to kill anyone that is killable to begin with. Berserker mesmers and thieves will explode from a condi burst. Many professions are running obnoxious builds that can’t be kill by a power druid as well, and there is no point worrying about those. They won’t kill you either, so just wander around until you find a friend or they get bored.

What condi burst? 10-15 stacks of bleed from Split Blade + Sharpening Stone, that doesn’t only require the enemy to sit right in your face, but is barely ticking for 2k? To “condi burst” your opponent you have to lock him down as Jim Hunter said, unless it is somebody who is afk or who decides to facetank you for no reason. Good luck locking down any halfways decent players with metabuilds. Especially thieves should never die to a condi ranger. Of course you can still kill all those bad players that are plenty in wvw, but those tend to die to almost everything, so that’s not a measurement of a good build.

I was sometimes messing arround with different condis builds, but found them a lot weaker than most power builds. Even compared to my full melee core ranger build that i usually ran and that isn’t optimal either.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

. . Of course you can still kill all those bad players that are plenty in wvw, but those tend to die to almost everything, so that’s not a measurement of a good build.
.

^So much this.

Fluffball.8307:

…Berserker mesmers and thieves will explode from a condi burst…

i havent seen a zerker mesmer for a long time and condi druid will die faster than be able to kill any DD. Druid manly output bleeds, that is only one condition and one condition can be cleanse really easy.

Condi druid is not only bad for wvw but for open world (aka grinding) it is as well. Unless you are fighting an static world\raid boss the condi druid\ranger is utterly useless.

Ranger would need a revamp of the skirmish and wilderness trait line to offer an actual condi build were the ranger can output more than one condi at a time.

Not a new spec, (this is unbelievable, even the forums can’t work properly and censure “until”) until base ranger is a competitive class for any game mode, no spec will make it good and balanced.

Jeez, an awful lot of hostility about what you guys are calling a “slightly suboptimal” build.

Krait runes, CC lock, burning, bleeding, poison, chill, cripple, immob…. and basically unkillable at the same time. It’s extremely forgiving because even if you totally miss a dodge it’s barely going to scratch you.

Once you reduce the drama, it’s really not a terrible spec. It’s not the best possible option, but you guys are acting like people don’t have near 100% success rate running condi druid. I enjoy running it for a change of pace and it does well.

Edit: Also anduriell in another thread you were advocating for roaming with a tank druid. If a tank druid can be successful then dire obviously can. Dire is going to put out a hundred times more damage than tanky staff.

anduriell.6280:

Condi druid is not only bad for wvw but for open world (aka grinding) it is as well. Unless you are fighting an static world\raid boss the condi druid\ranger is utterly useless.

This is an extreme exaggeration. Condi works for WvW despite not being the best…and in open world/any pve it works exceptionally well.

Kerivek.5740:

anduriell.6280:

Condi druid is not only bad for wvw but for open world (aka grinding) it is as well. Unless you are fighting an static world\raid boss the condi druid\ranger is utterly useless.

This is an extreme exaggeration. Condi works for WvW despite not being the best…and in open world/any pve it works exceptionally well.

not it does not, try to go condi build with a leather farming zerg in lake doric or any zerg bigger than 20 and tell me how it goes.

Condi druid outside from some raids bosses there is not real use for it as it is extremely bad for moving\low hp targets. And in wvw is even worst but for other reasons.

All professions’ condi builds are bad in leather farming, it doesn’t even have anything to do with druid, and it has absolutely nothing to do with WvW roaming.

I think you just want to write angry dramatic things, anduriell.

If you truly wanna farm open world events and be effective, just run Guardian and bring your ‘loot stick’.

With regards to WvW roaming, I advocate running a more tanky set-up (I solo roam and fight outnumbered alot).

Condi or Power? That depends on your priorities as a roamer, do you want to be more effective at flipping camps/towers or do you want to be more effective fighting other players. If you want to be more effective flipping camps, condi will serve you better as the NPCs are imo, stationary targets. If you want to fight other players that are decent/good while being outnumbered mostly, go power for consistent damage vs moving targets.

It’s really as simple as that.

Fluffball.8307:

All professions’ condi builds are bad in leather farming, it doesn’t even have anything to do with druid, and it has absolutely nothing to do with WvW roaming.

I think you just want to write angry dramatic things, anduriell.

anduriell.6280:

not it does not, try to go condi build with a leather farming zerg in lake doric or any zerg bigger than 20 and tell me how it goes.

Condi druid outside from some raids bosses there is not real use for it as it is extremely bad for moving\low hp targets. And in wvw is even worst but for other reasons.

so no farming then? Whats left in pve? jumping puzzles? do we need condi for that?
Other than that condi druid is bad because the only condition it can apply reliably is bleeds the weakest of all which you need like 20 stacks to do some damage which is going to take like 20 seconds to build up if you are lucky.

Even the chrono got the fancy buff to confusion and now is a condition that have better multipliers for passive damage than bleeds.
And they can stack better as they stack more conditions at the same time for longer duration.

and as i said, condi druid is really bad in wvw for other reasons… not only the actual lack of damage compared to other classes.

Now if they would allow the ranger to throw traps like in the old days, this conversation would be taking a different route.

mulzi.8273:

Now if they would allow the ranger to throw traps like in the old days, this conversation would be taking a different route.

Yeah that was a kittenty change, so was the nerf to sharpened edges, removing the mobility on spirits, the range reduction on shortbow, the list goes on….

There were so many build defining things that got nerfed for absolutely garbage reasons.

Fluffball.8307:

Jeez, an awful lot of hostility about what you guys are calling a “slightly suboptimal” build.

Krait runes, CC lock, burning, bleeding, poison, chill, cripple, immob…. and basically unkillable at the same time. It’s extremely forgiving because even if you totally miss a dodge it’s barely going to scratch you.

Once you reduce the drama, it’s really not a terrible spec. It’s not the best possible option, but you guys are acting like people don’t have near 100% success rate running condi druid. I enjoy running it for a change of pace and it does well.

Edit: Also anduriell in another thread you were advocating for roaming with a tank druid. If a tank druid can be successful then dire obviously can. Dire is going to put out a hundred times more damage than tanky staff.

Agreed, personally love the BM condi build, but the current power staff builds gets the job done with more survivability and mobility, which is probably better in a wvv situation.

I’ve been testing out a double staff trailblazer build for lolz and thought it’d suck o_O but its not toooo bad. I try not to bring any hard CCs to the build except for primal echos. You’re basically kiting around and proccing aoe ancient seeds every 9s.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNQQJAWWjEqQNL2yCmsAVLWYEM4o6UtryEuucBgmx1GIEUynOD-TFiHQBJR5j8U/BE7PIOdBA4KAIQlQxRJoAeEABAQAm5MTmzMw4Fv4Fv4FP7W36W36W3kCYRlVA-w

I like to open with sharpening stone first, make them use up a condi cleanse. Get close and swap weapons for ancient seed proc. Continue to kite and swap weapons. Use bristleback F2 for a small burst when theyre finally caught. Avoid fighitng builds with high stability uptime.

Planning to do a power variation later on~

Hi there. I have recently came back from a few months. I played bleed ranger for years so immediately went to work on finding something that would work in the current state of the game. I would go with this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAV8YjEqQNL2wCusAVLWMEsm31JoFwEAGdNA4s6YNtWwqG-TVSAABIp+THHBgxU+19FAYSlg9s/AAPAgc0N4xBBgUALKNC-w

Sadly you have to take krait runes which means (at least for me) I’m torn between Natural Stride and Celestial Shadow. The latter being, arguably, our most powerful trait. On the other had, no speed in wvw means death.

I also am thinking full dire because of the nerf to sharpened edges. Which is still a head-scratcher but that is another topic. With a steady flow of fury and hunter’s tactics you get pushed to 40% crit.

The play-style is a lot of fun. You can constantly evade while applying bleeds, poisons, and soft cc. There is a lot of room for flexibility in trait lines as well, depending on how offensive/ defensive you want to be.

Here’s to hoping for some short bow buffs in the future

Shortbow has seen nothing but buffs since the game’s release, it honestly amazes me how its still subpar compared to even other condi options — not to mention the zerk alternatives.

~ Kovu

Kovu.7560:

Shortbow has seen nothing but buffs since the game’s release…..

……not counting the huge nerf to its range, attack speed….

@kiwituatara.6053 yeah that’s the fundamental problem with ranger, if you want cleanses (and you want to have them) you can’t go for condi because you are locked into WS.
Which means you always miss something very important and you are not free to play as you want.
Well mostly this game is like this, if you play ranger you are locked into power shoutbow or die horribly… always.

Kovu.7560:

Shortbow has seen nothing but buffs since the game’s release, it honestly amazes me how its still subpar compared to even other condi options — not to mention the zerk alternatives.

~ Kovu

Shortbow is the perfect example in how Anet needs actual game designers backed by actual developers that know how to code.

The weapon is simply bad in skills design and overall usefulness.

As i’m saying from years ago: all single ranger weapon sets needs to have available a burst skill, a CC skill and disengage skill at least. And depending if the weapon is melee or ranger also a gap closer and defensive skill.
Ranger’s only weapon choices follow that philosophy, look at the LB or GS.

This must to be like that simply because ranger utility skills don’t do damage, those are only utility.

And even if we had something we couldn’t use it as we need as many stun breaks as possible because lack of defenses and stability.

Ranger, core ranger, is simply very badly designed and should get redone frome the ground up, from what is actually the role of the pet in the class to what is the class supposed to be the best at.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Kovu.7560:

Shortbow has seen nothing but buffs since the game’s release…..

……not counting the huge nerf to its range, attack speed….

Only the auto had its attack speed reduced iirc, unless you’re counting the quickness nerf. Velocity was actually increased, to connect more reliably. But yes, they nerfed the range, its now on par with thief shortbow except the former can be traited. That said…

anduriell

The weapon is simply bad in skills design and overall usefulness.

Pretty much my feeling on the matter. Ranger’s shortbow desperately need a condition-based burst option to be viable in a competitive environment.

~ Kovu