Guild Wars 2

Here’s my reasoning:
Yes, condi has its disadvantages with stack limits and clearing, but here are its advantages:
-With Ranger, your dps is limited because you have a pet. So all the might and power you would get to increase your damage is less effective from the get go. But as far as I’m aware, your condi damage isn’t reduced compared to other classes and rangers apply conditions fairly well.
So you have full strength condi damage PLUS your pet damage.
-You also have two other attributes to play with since you only need one attribute for condition damage, whereas power builds need power, precision, and fury. So your survivability is much much better.
-Condition damage ignores toughness.
-Sure they can clear your conditions but you can just as easily apply more and if someone else is applying conditions as well you may be helping them keep theirs on or vice versa.
-Most fights against good players don’t end immediately and are generally longer than pve fights so burst isn’t always better and condi has time to work. It is also much more devastating for them to evade one of your mauls than one of your crossfires.
-Long bow sucks.

I hate to say it, but I think you are wrong.

Power ranger can work extremely well, I am talking high power, high armor, high health and good condition clearing. Its not the greatest dps class no, but it has some roles it will utterly crush others in. The longbow is central to that, you just have to think a little bit sideways in getting there.

I will post a build to show me workings as Mrs Taylor would say:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBjYDbkRlOWbZxkFuWDsHUrDgGoAaNEu3iDutLYTF-TpBBwAfOCAQ3fAwFAwcZgNHEAIPAAA

The Heal and the Sigils are pretty much up to you, although I would leave that sword rage on because it can really help grabbing a stomp (ele and mesmer excluded, but I have caught them off guard plenty of times).

You would use your longbow in groupfights, sitting back a bit and ripping the health from one target. Your choice is important as you need to really help the team to win. Warriors are a mixed bag as they will be immune to damage for a time and they can block etc, but auto attacking them is fine to help out. You really want to target eles with a staff, a good chance they are burst specced and harming your team. Mesmers are another good choice, anything squishy, remove the opponents ability to do damage.
Thats team fighting in the middle, over to the sides…

1v1 you will want to use your bow to lay down some slows and get rapid fire on them, knock back and stealth then pop out into sword, as yoru bow will be of little use close up. Your sword hits pretty hard, and if you proc the rage you will melt them pretty quick. Be sure whatever heal you use, use it correctly (so if troll pop it BEFORE you take the full damage, its meant to be more defensive, same with spring to a degree etc etc). The warhorn is a good choice as you need as much fury as you can get to keep your damage nice and spikey, plus the swiftness helps as you will be moving around an awful lot to get into position.

Stomping: I have covered the rage stomping, but your elite also has stability so you can use that to secure some class stomps. As you will be a damage and support build its up to you to help with the stomps, do not just sit back. You have some nice tools to get stomps so use them. Stealth as well can help, anything can. But make sure you provide support for the more tanky soldier type roles that will be soaking it up on the point.

COnditions will also be handled by your survival skills as its traited. Just remember that you want to clear the conditions once its fully on you. EG a warriors x/sword number 4, the throw sword for torment. Well if you look it stacks up to five and then is done. Popping your clear on the first means you will eat the next 4. Time it right and conditions are of little concern, as all your skills clear them. Plus you have a nice health pool and one of the heals removes conditions as well.

I am not saying this build is the greatest thing ever and I am still working the kinks out. I havent got the 13 on the power one just yet, I will grab that and test it out, but I am REALLY doing well with this build in soloQ, you bring a lot of support and damage.

Honestly, give it a shot, you may not hit big 10k hits like a thief, but overall you will do some very nice damage but its built around sustain. I am saying this, but I think a 2k crit on a ranged auto attack is kitten near criminal. Pop your frenzy and your nearing a pistol whip burst spec levels of damage, and your doing that from half way across the map whilst your wolf knocked that enemy down, then fear them, then your hound roots him and goes to trashing his face, all whilst your cosy in your ninja outfit and sitting on a point.

It all comes down to preference. And the nice thing about sPvP is you can switch anytime. Power sniper ranger is fun, but my personal playstyle favors traps better. Using shortbow & sword/dagger, kiting around while my pet is on their heels, that’s how I like to play.

Both are viable. Comes down to what you’re better at.

I highly disagree. Please see channel for details.

Pibriamal.8719:

It all comes down to preference. And the nice thing about sPvP is you can switch anytime. Power sniper ranger is fun, but my personal playstyle favors traps better. Using shortbow & sword/dagger, kiting around while my pet is on their heels, that’s how I like to play.

Both are viable. Comes down to what you’re better at.

To add to this, some people like the active playstyle of power. Hiding behind your passive damage requires a much lower skill floor and just isn’t as fun. I get why people run conditions; it’s hard to be a successful power ranger. When you do figure it out though, it’s fun as hell.

Viking Jorun.5413:

I highly disagree. Please see channel for details.

Pibriamal.8719:

It all comes down to preference. And the nice thing about sPvP is you can switch anytime. Power sniper ranger is fun, but my personal playstyle favors traps better. Using shortbow & sword/dagger, kiting around while my pet is on their heels, that’s how I like to play.

Both are viable. Comes down to what you’re better at.

To add to this, some people like the active playstyle of power. Hiding behind your passive damage requires a much lower skill floor and just isn’t as fun. I get why people run conditions; it’s hard to be a successful power ranger. When you do figure it out though, it’s fun as hell.

My playstyle isn’t passive. Sword itself requires an active playstyle. Combine that with micromanaging your pet, it’s far from passive.

Pibriamal.8719:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I highly disagree. Please see channel for details.

Pibriamal.8719:

It all comes down to preference. And the nice thing about sPvP is you can switch anytime. Power sniper ranger is fun, but my personal playstyle favors traps better. Using shortbow & sword/dagger, kiting around while my pet is on their heels, that’s how I like to play.

Both are viable. Comes down to what you’re better at.

To add to this, some people like the active playstyle of power. Hiding behind your passive damage requires a much lower skill floor and just isn’t as fun. I get why people run conditions; it’s hard to be a successful power ranger. When you do figure it out though, it’s fun as hell.

My playstyle isn’t passive. Sword itself requires an active playstyle. Combine that with micromanaging your pet, it’s far from passive.

Conditions by definition are a passive playstyle. Sure, the application is active, but once applied you’re free to avoid damage as you please until the reapplication of your conditions is necessary. It doesn’t require the same risk to dish out the same amount of damage as it does when playing a power spec, which can’t passively tick away 1k+ health every second. Traps are an even more passive playstyle, because once thrown, you can mitigate even further damage while kiting your enemy into the traps. There’s just less risk with condition builds for the same reward.

True, power needs more skill but does skill equate to more effectiveness when using the same amount of skill with a condi toughness build? Sure I’m impressed when a person with 2/3rds of his appendages beats someone with all of his appendages but what if that second person was just as skillful?

I guess what I’m saying is a power Ranger is still 2/3rds effective and 1/3rds pet. But a condi Ranger is fully effective and tougher, also with an extra 1/3rds from the pet. If you treat the pet as a DoT with perks, then you’re a medium armor DoT master.

Both power and condi have their place. Both spec require you to be active just in different ways.

With power your in a more active offense mode (short bow bleeder build can be as active).

While with conditions your in a more active defensive mode. Our condition have a relative long cd.

While Ranger isn’t designed to spike it can deal 8 to 15k damage with a power set up. not including pet damage. While conditions can kind of spike in general it requires build up. 25 stack of bleed can really wreck someone’s day but, 2 to 3k tick is about the same as a powered buld average output.

The 2/3 damage loss from pet death or poor management isn’t in relation to other Rangers its in relation to other classes. An 8k attack by a ranger would have been a 12k attack by another class.

Power = Kill it before it kills you. Condition = Your dead and you don’t even know it yet. (tick tick boom).

I love whittling down opponents while staying at full hp and then using the pet skills to burst ’m down. Lightning drake ftw.

My reasoning is that emphatic bond is mandatory for any effective high tier ranger build. We always have to have that 300 condi dmg, so viable builds make use of it.

Survival of the fittest was a mistake, power builds need the condi removal from the trait but cannot sacrifice the traits to bring it. Ideally it should be a grandmaster skirmishing trait. Condi builds could not make use of the trait with a practical build and power builds could have effective condi clear without losing significant damage.

Ryan.9387:

My reasoning is that emphatic bond is mandatory for any effective high tier ranger build. We always have to have that 300 condi dmg, so viable builds make use of it.

Survival of the fittest was a mistake, power builds need the condi removal from the trait but cannot sacrifice the traits to bring it. Ideally it should be a grandmaster skirmishing trait. Condi builds could not make use of the trait with a practical build and power builds could have effective condi clear without losing significant damage.

I really wish people would test things before spreading information like this. Any ranger taking Healing Spring is going to have 10 seconds of the best condition removal in the game. For the next 30 seconds, however, you’re forced to play on the defensive or carefully at the very least. It’s a trade off.

Condition builds have always had the benefit of being able to build tanky while outputting the same DPS passively that power builds require active input to achieve at a much greater risk. All that said, I rarely have issues against condition builds. Conditions only become an issue for my power build when facing more than one opponent who can overload you with conditions (i.e. 2 engineers, necromancers), which most classes have a high weakness against.

DaliIndica.9041:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBjYDbkRlOWbZxkFuWDsHUrDgGoAaNEu3iDutLYTF-TpBBwAfOCAQ3fAwFAwcZgNHEAIPAAA

I would however,, take read the wind over eagle eye. Or drop 10 points out of marksman and put them in either Skirmish (Primal Reflexes) or Wilderness Survival (Oakhearth salve/Off-hand training).

Good to see others playing power-ranger in PvP.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Ryan.9387:

My reasoning is that emphatic bond is mandatory for any effective high tier ranger build. We always have to have that 300 condi dmg, so viable builds make use of it.

Survival of the fittest was a mistake, power builds need the condi removal from the trait but cannot sacrifice the traits to bring it. Ideally it should be a grandmaster skirmishing trait. Condi builds could not make use of the trait with a practical build and power builds could have effective condi clear without losing significant damage.

I really wish people would test things before spreading information like this. Any ranger taking Healing Spring is going to have 10 seconds of the best condition removal in the game. For the next 30 seconds, however, you’re forced to play on the defensive or carefully at the very least. It’s a trade off.

Condition builds have always had the benefit of being able to build tanky while outputting the same DPS passively that power builds require active input to achieve at a much greater risk. All that said, I rarely have issues against condition builds. Conditions only become an issue for my power build when facing more than one opponent who can overload you with conditions (i.e. 2 engineers, necromancers), which most classes have a high weakness against.

Without it you WILL lose to any strong condi player 1v1 regardless of your other traits.

Healspring is our berserker stance.
Emphatic bond is our cleansing ire.

i like the power build. its similar to the power survival build that dante posted on reddit some time ago. but i prefer berserk amulett instead of soldier, cqnt imagine that soldier works really well.
with that change u could use better sigils. on longbow fire/air works well.
but all in all that build is more fun to play then the 6/6/2 setup

It’s definitely fun to play power and I don’t doubt you get kills in pvp but is it optimal compared to other professions? Is the value of power in the Ranger equal to the value of power in the Warrior? If pets scaled to our stats then I’d say yes, but they don’t. That is a disadvantage for power Rangers but a major advantage for condi rangers. Their pets don’t get weaker with no power investment.

I guess I shouldn’t tell you how to play but I think condi Ranger maximizes a Ranger’s strengths and adds room for survivability whereas power Ranger almost always has to be glass just to try to compensate so you make average instead of sucky damage.

Of course I am just theorycrafting. I’ve no clue how much dps a condi Ranger does in pvp vs a power Ranger.

But for other professions I’d assume they would try to make condi equivalent to power in terms of viability. But for rangers they only seemed to handicap Ranger power abilities but not condi abilities.

KevlarZero.6849:

Of course I am just theorycrafting. I’ve no clue how much dps a condi Ranger does in pvp vs a power Ranger.

But for other professions I’d assume they would try to make condi equivalent to power in terms of viability. But for rangers they only seemed to handicap Ranger power abilities but not condi abilities.

Ranger conditions aren’t nearly as good as that of warriors, thieves and necromancers. Just look at the bleed duration for weapon attacks. Shortbow Ranger, only when flanking or behind, 1 bleed stack for 2-3 seconds I think it was. Even with serious bleed-duration increases you won’t come anywhere near the maxed out 17 second bleeds of the warrior’s sword auto-attack. Or the death blossom with 17 seconds, 3 stacks of bleeding. I mean rangers shortbow bleeding is almost comparable to the bleeding done by warriors rifles. or the pistol auto-attack from thieves. Doesn’t offer more than 500 sustained dps and the ranger only gets that while flanking or from behind.

Then there is the condition burst. A good thief can stack 25 bleeds in a small aoe for 10-17 seconds in 4-6 seconds + many other conditions but lets just focus on bleeds for now.
Necromancer can then transfer any conditions applied to him or his allies to the targetted opponent with either dagger-4, staff-4 or their signet.
Warriors can stack around 11 stacks of bleeding consistently and then burst it up to somewhere in the 20’s.

Of course conditions will work better than power in spvp. Not just for ranger, for any class, condition spam is broken atm.

If you want a 1 v 1, you must go condi ranger as condi ranger has the potential to beat everything 1 v 1 while power ranger cannot. For a team fight in the current meta, power ranger is better.

The best of both worlds. Do it.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJAVRjMq0xaLL+rw1aABhaVA0uGShWgd9WBTwBzS1A-TpRAABA8AA24QAEyRAojLAwYlBMc/BA

Timing your mauls after your stuns/swaps for guaranteed 150% bonus damage and crit on top does around 5.5k in celestial, all the meanwhile pressuring with condi pressure from devourer/sb. Darting in and out and following your stuns with your burst gives great damage, on top of being tanky, with tasty condi pressure.

Eurantien.4632:

If you want a 1 v 1, you must go condi ranger as condi ranger has the potential to beat everything 1 v 1 while power ranger cannot. For a team fight in the current meta, power ranger is better.

condi ranger is absolutely not beating a skilled d/d ele or bunker engi or necro dude.
If they totally suck and have no clue how to play their class you might beat the, but please.. a skilled D/D ele will cleanse anything you throw at it all while pummeling you…. bunker engis have an entire nest of turrets, gl surviving that… necro lol , 2x hp bar, WAY more condis than you can handle… you not beating team.

You will also have tough time beating a well skilled warrior…

you SHOULD be able to wreck thieves, probably guardians and staff glass eles.

I personally prefer a mix with LB/ sword+dagger…. plenty of evades and solid sustain damage.. being able to engage at range for a some decent damage than swap into your melee range mode and go to town on your target with drakehound/wolf is pretty hard to beat out.

Going all out condi is just meh imo.. such a boring playstyle, even though it absolutely does work…

unfortunately this is the downfall of ranger… our full condi build doesnt even compare to what a condi mesmer/necro/engi can do. and our full power builds doesnt hold a candle to full zerk theives,warriors, guards, eles.

SkiTz.4590:

Eurantien.4632:

If you want a 1 v 1, you must go condi ranger as condi ranger has the potential to beat everything 1 v 1 while power ranger cannot. For a team fight in the current meta, power ranger is better.

condi ranger is absolutely not beating a skilled d/d ele or bunker engi or necro dude.
If they totally suck and have no clue how to play their class you might beat the, but please.. a skilled D/D ele will cleanse anything you throw at it all while pummeling you…. bunker engis have an entire nest of turrets, gl surviving that… necro lol , 2x hp bar, WAY more condis than you can handle… you not beating team.

You will also have tough time beating a well skilled warrior…

you SHOULD be able to wreck thieves, probably guardians and staff glass eles.

I personally prefer a mix with LB/ sword+dagger…. plenty of evades and solid sustain damage.. being able to engage at range for a some decent damage than swap into your melee range mode and go to town on your target with drakehound/wolf is pretty hard to beat out.

Going all out condi is just meh imo.. such a boring playstyle, even though it absolutely does work…

unfortunately this is the downfall of ranger… our full condi build doesnt even compare to what a condi mesmer/necro/engi can do. and our full power builds doesnt hold a candle to full zerk theives,warriors, guards, eles.

a bunker condi-ranger still has a chance though. I tend to beat most D/D eles with it. Just the constant pressure and staying at 100% hp while the pet hits for 3k dmg. With a small burst of about 4-7k dmg not counting the condition damage even.
Have been dueling a bit with it and won around 85% of all the duels but whenever another one joined in I lost almost instantly.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

SkiTz.4590:

Eurantien.4632:

If you want a 1 v 1, you must go condi ranger as condi ranger has the potential to beat everything 1 v 1 while power ranger cannot. For a team fight in the current meta, power ranger is better.

condi ranger is absolutely not beating a skilled d/d ele or bunker engi or necro dude.
If they totally suck and have no clue how to play their class you might beat the, but please.. a skilled D/D ele will cleanse anything you throw at it all while pummeling you…. bunker engis have an entire nest of turrets, gl surviving that… necro lol , 2x hp bar, WAY more condis than you can handle… you not beating team.

You will also have tough time beating a well skilled warrior…

you SHOULD be able to wreck thieves, probably guardians and staff glass eles.

I personally prefer a mix with LB/ sword+dagger…. plenty of evades and solid sustain damage.. being able to engage at range for a some decent damage than swap into your melee range mode and go to town on your target with drakehound/wolf is pretty hard to beat out.

Going all out condi is just meh imo.. such a boring playstyle, even though it absolutely does work…

unfortunately this is the downfall of ranger… our full condi build doesnt even compare to what a condi mesmer/necro/engi can do. and our full power builds doesnt hold a candle to full zerk theives,warriors, guards, eles.

a bunker condi-ranger still has a chance though. I tend to beat most D/D eles with it. Just the constant pressure and staying at 100% hp while the pet hits for 3k dmg. With a small burst of about 4-7k dmg not counting the condition damage even.
Have been dueling a bit with it and won around 85% of all the duels but whenever another one joined in I lost almost instantly.

you dropping 7k bursts as a full condi ranger? would love to see that lol. not saying its impossible but… unless the target is just wrecked with vuln stacks + light armor, I dont see how you pump that kind of damage unless your using gs maul/swop combo or rapid fire on longbow but most condi rangers dont use those weapons, sounds like you might by a hybrid power/condi, which I could see dropping some decent, sustainable bursts

Rangers have some good 1v1 hybrid variants, but they tend to take a lot of build crafting to work out and a majority of players prefer stacking “all of something” playstyles.

If we’re talking about strictly 1v1 encounters, full condi ranger isn’t as superior as some here are making it sound.

Both power and condi ranger are viable, they just have different role in pvp. If you go full power, you are rather supporter, place yourself in safe spot and nuke ppl down 1by1 with your longbow. But for that you need team mates who will be holding enemies until you snipe them down. In solo arena I wouldn’t go for power since you don’t know builds of your team mates, their role they want to play and there is lack of coordination in general. If you go full condi, you can’t do anything wrong. Condi ranger is one of the strongest 1v1 classes in game. You can bunker point, you can cap, you can offer some boons to allies, you are good in anything, best in nothing. Power ranger is more fun to play though, very effective, but barely useful.

Miyu.8137:

snip

Alright, let’s get one thing straight people: Power =/= Burst, ranged or melee. I run power with a celestial amulet and hit decently while being both durable and able to swap my playstyle to both offensive and defensive, and serve as a roamer. I can burst with quickness swap combos, but burst isn’t the build’s main intent.

Burst does not inherently infer long range. You’re not helping your team by playing off-point, so don’t do that. If you insist on playing burst, a GS MoC build is what you should be going for. Outside of that, ranger is about sustained melee damage, not burst. We aren’t thieves, so get that mindset out of there.

The bias toward condition builds with no insight on how power works is rank in these forums.

What is this great condi bunker 1v1 build with condi because with 2/6/6/0/0 traps sb/sw/torch undead rune, bleeder sigils, rabid amulet I’m finding the setting of the trap or even bonfire makes me very vulnerable to stop and cast. I might as well be on necro to be so vulnerable and throw stronger condi stacks through boon conversion as well and contribute more.

In power, even in zerk builds I can do sustained zerk damage through extreme kiting and making most classes without teleports have to spend so much effort to come after me they wasted their time also off point and frequently dead. I feel that so much more of my survival comes from evades and positioning than the amulet choice it’s not going to matter much survival wise to switch off zerk in power..for longbow user that is. Except that I can’t be as much of a threat and make them run sometimes = less survival.

On the power side I feel I can beat a lot of builds and I’m not so sure sniping off point is “not helping the team” because if a power ranger can just throw 100% of their damage at max range + stomp protection with KBs it’s pretty effective and I’ve seen many “2v3” and even “1v3” with 1-2 guys on point and me off turned around this way. However certain thief builds (really just inf strike builds, most others are not bad to me now) can just roll over power ranger and plus the off point sniping is a lot like what a thief would be doing to contribute anyway and bursting people down with easier stealth stomps mid point so it’s hard for me to judge the overall contribution of power ranger against thief anyway in soloque.

For team queue to me the stronger meta comps are like dual hambow bunker guardian thief and one lighter off class like triple med guard or condi necro, shatter mes, or second thief. Ranger just doesn’t seem to fit into that puzzle well because he’s going to miss the buffs off point sniping in power or not apply condi as well in condi, or not sync up with thieves and general melee play as well unless he’s melee himself and then ..why not bring a necro instead.

Longbow may be a terrible weapon for the meta but it is decent in 1v1s, and this carries over to soloq a bit.

SkiTz.4590:

Eurantien.4632:

If you want a 1 v 1, you must go condi ranger as condi ranger has the potential to beat everything 1 v 1 while power ranger cannot. For a team fight in the current meta, power ranger is better.

condi ranger is absolutely not beating a skilled d/d ele or bunker engi or necro dude.
If they totally suck and have no clue how to play their class you might beat the, but please.. a skilled D/D ele will cleanse anything you throw at it all while pummeling you…. bunker engis have an entire nest of turrets, gl surviving that… necro lol , 2x hp bar, WAY more condis than you can handle… you not beating team.

You will also have tough time beating a well skilled warrior…

Shouldn’t use absolutes
http://www.twitch.tv/blu42/b/537916025
1:09:14
I beat a good d/d ele
I beat a good necro
I beat a good engi
(the engi is nades, tool kit, and s. Not bunker, but bunker engi’s are way easy).

So ranger can beat these classes with a condi build.

That being said, most rangers won’t, these fights are hard, and only specific builds can handle these classes. In the end, ranger isn’t viable in the current meta. The pet is too restrictive and might stacking/all in one packages from war, ele, engi (terms of survivability, mobility, aoe, and damage) is just too much. Ranger cannot compete in a node based game atm.

Still, great class on open terrain.

in wvw it’s probably true but not in pvp.

if your opponent is not full glass and have decent cleaning ( rotate cleaning well too ).
not many run Generosity but i do i personally dont have much problem with condi.

Ranger is one of the worst class to play condi though. I rather play condi warrior.