Ranger//Necro
Critique of Ranger changes
Wilderness Survival
I. Soften the Fall: I’m in favor of removing these fall damage traits altogether, but thats a personal opinion I guess. They have extraordinarily limited use and rarely have an effect on gameplay in PvP or PvE.
II. Ambidexterity: Good trait.
III. Expertise Training: This is a beastmastery trait. Consider changing the line. I’d suggest placing the old Stability training trait here that’s worded as such: When your pet is disabled, you and your pet gain 3 stacks of stability, 5 second duration, 10 second ICD. This fits the “Survival”/defensive aspect of the line better and synergizes well with Shared Anguish. Stability training also promotes high skill-cap maneuvers such as sending your pet into a Ring of Warding first, granting yourself 3 stacks of stability so you can escape or enter.
IV. Oakheart Salve: Good trait.
V. Peak Strength: This trait isn’t that bad, but I feel like it’s out of place in the Survival line. Consider additional functionality like, Healing Skills remove weakness and cripple from you and your pet.
VI. Shared Anguish: Still a strong trait, if albeit passive and boring.
VII. Empathic Bond: Now that this trait competes with Survival of the Fittest for condi clear, I’d highly suggest changing the functionality to just having your pet remove the conditions instead of transferring them to your pet. Pets are already pretty squishy and killing your pet with this trait goes against the spirit of the Ranger class.
VIII. Wilderness Knowledge: Extremely strong.
IX. Poison Master: Feels like a Skirmishing trait. However, I’d suggest increasing the poison damage from 50% to 75% or 100% for this trait to be able to compete against EB or Wilderness Knowledge. You could also consider adding a leeching effect, such as 30% of your poison damage heals you. This would encourage multidotting in fights with poison, something Ranger is very good at, and could open up new builds just by itself for PvP.
Nature Magic
I. Bountiful Hunter: Decent Adept trait. Not insane, because Rangers have limited boon application compared to other classes.
II. Nature’s Wrath: Tooltip too vague for me to comment.
III. Healer’s Celerity: Add Protection or some additional functionality, currently appears far too weak compared to the other Adept’s,
IV. Evasive Purity: Good as is.
V. Vigorous Training: A bit weak compared to IV/VI, I’d increase the Vigor base duration to 8 seconds.
VI. Windborne Notes: Decent. I’d still like to see Warhorn give 3 stacks of might instead of 1.
VII. Nature’s Vengeance: Decent.
VIII. Protective Ward: In its current state, the definition of an OP faceroll defensive trait. *Modify it so it only occurs when the Ranger or the pet takes damage more than 10% of their health in a single hit.
IX. Invigorating Bond: Increase the healing or add additional functionality, or make it so the ICD is tied to individual pets rather than both at the same time. This trait has potential, but it’s currently too weak.
Beastmastery
I. Companion’s Might: Decent.
II. Rending Attacks: Must be combined with Expertise Training or else it will always be too weak. Pets do not crit that much, they have no base condition damage, and 1 stack of bleed is a puny damage modifier.
III. Resounding Timbre: Quite strong. Totally superior to the current iteration of Rending Attacks, even with 1 shout.
IV. Wilting Strikes: Has potential.
V. Two-Hand Training: Very strong now, when combined with Remorseless. A bit concerned that it’s in the Beastmaster line along with the Axe trait.
VI. Natural Healing: Kind of weak looking. It needs something, but I don’t know what. Possibly move this trait to the Adept line and move Resounding Timbre to Master.
VII. Beastly Warden: Too vague currently for comment.
VIII. Zephyr’s Speed: Decent.
IX. Honed Axes: Add +150 Ferocity for each Axe you wield This at least slightly buffs the rarely used Sword/Axe and Axe/Axe sets. Plus, Axe/Axe is a very Beastmaster feeling set.
Ranger//Necro
I agree with just about every suggestion you’ve made, very reasonable. Invigorating bond should just not have an ICD, period. That would make it decent.
Agreed about Enlargement totally
Regarding poison master, you do know that poison will be stacking in intensity now right? It might be fine.
I agree with just about every suggestion you’ve made, very reasonable. Invigorating bond should just not have an ICD, period. That would make it decent.
Agreed about Enlargement totally
Regarding poison master, you do know that poison will be stacking in intensity now right? It might be fine.
The problem with Invigorating Bond not having an ICD is that some pets have like, 6 second recharge on their F2s (Hawks) and some have 40, like certain Bears. Without an ICD that could be 2k healing every 6 seconds which would be almost certainly overpowered, it would also make the trait worthless to run with pets with longer CD f2s.
About Poison Master, that’s definitely true, it appears both Poison and Burning are going to be changed dramatically, but it still seems lackluster compared to the other two GM traits in that line. The devs also said that Poison would stack in healing reduction, and that that was an error in the tooltip. If poison actually did scale to -66% healing duration, then the trait would have been very strong.
Ranger//Necro
I have to say that I don’t sympathize with most of the proposed changes.
Only a few of them are well thought over and justified.
I won’t go over all of them, but some to point out.
Steady Focus… You’d like such as 10% flat damage boost (that is a lot, actually on par with Predator’s Onslaught) to be penalized less.
Enlargement is a 25% damage boost. You are reading that right, 25%. That’s a table turner. Stating objections like “we want to have full reward from it all the time” is ridiculous.
About Strider’s defense… This is the very trait that is going to put us into WvW zergs. Front Line ranger will negate roughly 50% of the enemy projectiles. And you want it swapped. I’m saluting to you, Sir.
Most Dangerous game… You do realize… That you are asking for 12 might when below 50%HP? Nope, that doesn’t feel right.
About spike trap … It’s a day and night difference to ress your teammates with this one. I believe you didn’t forget about the synergy with Rune of the Trapper.
And so forth.
Some of the points you made are really good, though…
… But some like these I pinpointed out … It’s clear that you want to justify rangers too much. Not only we will have unique mechanics that will put us at a rightful place, we’ll get more team support that we needed, we got everything we asked for concerning longbow …
… And you still want it without any single risk or trade-off whatsoever?
Nope, I’m not fine with that.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
^youre pretty disconnected from reality and I’ll explain why.
- who’s gonna slot runes of the trapper? Also spike trap doesn’t protect you from cleave and ranged damage in any way. rezzing against coordinated teams will remain suicidal.
- who’s gonna stay under 50% HP for more than a few seconds? MDG is lackluster in current form
- how will strider’s defense put you in wvw zergs? Damage in wvw comes mostly from ground targeted aoe’s, not projectiles. Rifle warriors are nonexistent, glassbows were never an issue, and that’s most of the projectiles.
- when you hit 25% HP, you’re basically dead anyway. SoW needs to activate at 50%
Half the rangers in wvw use rune of the trapper…
^youre pretty disconnected from reality and I’ll explain why.
- who’s gonna slot runes of the trapper? Also spike trap doesn’t protect you from cleave and ranged damage in any way. rezzing against coordinated teams will remain suicidal.
- who’s gonna stay under 50% HP for more than a few seconds? MDG is lackluster in current form
- how will strider’s defense put you in wvw zergs? Damage in wvw comes mostly from ground targeted aoe’s, not projectiles. Rifle warriors are nonexistent, glassbows were never an issue, and that’s most of the projectiles.
- when you hit 25% HP, you’re basically dead anyway. SoW needs to activate at 50%
Damage comes from Aoes? Gwen is no more , its more like GWRENEM everyone can take part , yes Aoes deal the most damage but vs all those squishy Roamers trying to flank , WvW tactics are Redesigned so the point of Aoes do the most damage is Nul and void because they are also a lot Easier to avoid making Projectiles just as Effective.
So this is where Striders defence comes in a Driver ranger with GS can soak up most incomming fire and then block with skill 4 , the skill on its own prevents Ranged KB’s, throw cripples , PATH OF SCARs combos and 50% of RF damage.
because oh boy its nice to shoot a Melee ranger with Rf currently, this striders change means you won’t be killed so easly between swoops and blocks.
I’m just laughing at the idea of taking 1 handed sword in WvW. You’ll just end up somersaulting into the middle of an enemy zerg trying to activate the trait. Evade on GS auto attack is still going to work much better.
I have to say that I don’t sympathize with most of the proposed changes.
Only a few of them are well thought over and justified.
I won’t go over all of them, but some to point out.Steady Focus… You’d like such as 10% flat damage boost (that is a lot, actually on par with Predator’s Onslaught) to be penalized less.
Enlargement is a 25% damage boost. You are reading that right, 25%. That’s a table turner. Stating objections like “we want to have full reward from it all the time” is ridiculous.
About Strider’s defense… This is the very trait that is going to put us into WvW zergs. Front Line ranger will negate roughly 50% of the enemy projectiles. And you want it swapped. I’m saluting to you, Sir.
Most Dangerous game… You do realize… That you are asking for 12 might when below 50%HP? Nope, that doesn’t feel right.
About spike trap … It’s a day and night difference to ress your teammates with this one. I believe you didn’t forget about the synergy with Rune of the Trapper.
And so forth.
Some of the points you made are really good, though…
… But some like these I pinpointed out … It’s clear that you want to justify rangers too much. Not only we will have unique mechanics that will put us at a rightful place, we’ll get more team support that we needed, we got everything we asked for concerning longbow …
… And you still want it without any single risk or trade-off whatsoever?Nope, I’m not fine with that.
I feel like your post is from the perspective of a person who literally only zergs in WvW and nothing else.
First of all, do you realize how fast you will die in actual PvP or even PvE never dodging any attacks? You will very rarely be at 100% of Endurance unless the enemy is just ignoring you entirely. That 10% uber-powerful buff would probably be up around 10-20% of the time in real fights.
As for the numbers on Enlargement, 25% damage increase every 60 seconds for 8 seconds maximum. Meaning essentially 3.3% extra damage if it’s constantly proccing exactly on time. So no, what I suggested was not unreasonable at all.
Strider’s Defense is an RNG defensive trait with horrible design. “Oh, I randomly destroyed the enemy’s killshot!” Yeah, sound’s skillful. “Oh, I randomly destroyed half that thief’s unload!” Again, really skillful. And no, this trait won’t make Rangers good in zergs. And you are the one telling me I want the class to be too forgiving? >.>
As for Most Dangerous Game, for a year now we’ve had two classes running around stacking 20+ might stacks on themselves for almost the entire duration of PvP games. And you will complain about 9-12 might stacks when you drop below 50% health?
I’ve never used Runes of the Trapper. Unfortunately, the balance team doesn’t really consider WvW, since the mode is pretty broken with food buffs and whatnot. Spike Trap on revive is a horrible trait in PvP, and useless for PvE as well.
Ranger//Necro
(edited by infantrydiv.1620)
As for MDG I was saying in another thread that it is near pointless to get 6 might while under 50% as if you are under 50%, you just want to get back above it again. It would be a great trait if it were a cross between Sharpening Stone and Leeching Venoms so it stole health with X attacks once you hit 50%.
^this. MDG needs to ‘tick’ for more, of simply more often. 2 stacks of might per second, each lasting 5 seconds. 5 seconds is a reasonable amount of time to be under 50% HP, so at best you’ll peak at 8-10 stacks without might duration. Investing in might duration should be rewarding as staying below 50 is risky. I don’t recall warriors and eles needing to take this risk, and they tend to finish fights with 20 stacks and full HP by basically facerolling.
Anyone saying current MDG is useful needs a reality check. So if Peters moves this to GM, it better be at least as effective as I suggested above, hopefully even more effective. Remember, in pvp, we can’t actually stack might effectively with RaO because our pets can’t make contact. This is the reality of it.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
I’m just laughing at the idea of taking 1 handed sword in WvW. You’ll just end up somersaulting into the middle of an enemy zerg trying to activate the trait. Evade on GS auto attack is still going to work much better.
I couldn’t live without 1H sword in WvW. The mobility alone is worth taking it.
This doesn’t mean that strider’s defense is any better…trying to matrix move projectiles is pretty stupid.
Sword is completely non-viable in zergs because it separates you from the group… it’s a skirmishing weapon.
I see strider’s defense as a way of dealing with us blowing up when 1-1-1’ing with the sword. It’s near useless because we are mostly killed by cleave, ground-targeted aoe’s, pbaoe’s and non-projectile ranged attacks. I think SD should simply give a flat defensive bonus while meeleing someone. Forget destroying projectiles, I give zero kittens about that situational scenario. -10-15% damage taken while in mêlée should be good.
Sword is completely non-viable in zergs because it separates you from the group… it’s a skirmishing weapon.
I see strider’s defense as a way of dealing with us blowing up when 1-1-1’ing with the sword. It’s near useless because we are mostly killed by cleave, ground-targeted aoe’s, pbaoe’s and non-projectile ranged attacks. I think SD should simply give a flat defensive bonus while meeleing someone. Forget destroying projectiles, I give zero kittens about that situational scenario. -10-15% damage taken while in mêlée should be good.
A flat defensive bonus would still be better than its current iteration. They could possibly do something like “Dodging a projectile grants you a buff that reduces damage taken by 15% for 5 seconds” 5 second ICD. This would at least be controllable and skillbased, although it might need balancing.
Ranger//Necro
I’m just laughing at the idea of taking 1 handed sword in WvW. You’ll just end up somersaulting into the middle of an enemy zerg trying to activate the trait. Evade on GS auto attack is still going to work much better.
ok read striders while performing a Melee attack , you do not have to hit anything.
Sword is completely non-viable in zergs because it separates you from the group… it’s a skirmishing weapon.
I see strider’s defense as a way of dealing with us blowing up when 1-1-1’ing with the sword. It’s near useless because we are mostly killed by cleave, ground-targeted aoe’s, pbaoe’s and non-projectile ranged attacks. I think SD should simply give a flat defensive bonus while meeleing someone. Forget destroying projectiles, I give zero kittens about that situational scenario. -10-15% damage taken while in mêlée should be good.
A flat defensive bonus would still be better than its current iteration. They could possibly do something like “Dodging a projectile grants you a buff that reduces damage taken by 15% for 5 seconds” 5 second ICD. This would at least be controllable and skillbased, although it might need balancing.
This would indeed be very very cool. I hope they read our suggestions and dont waste the opportunity to create a fun new GM mechanic.
I’m just laughing at the idea of taking 1 handed sword in WvW. You’ll just end up somersaulting into the middle of an enemy zerg trying to activate the trait. Evade on GS auto attack is still going to work much better.
ok read striders while performing a Melee attack , you do not have to hit anything.
Swinging at air would make this trait a bit more interesting, if not sillier. But I doubt it works this way… likely you have to be hitting something.
I feel like your post is from the perspective of a person who literally only zergs in WvW and nothing else.
Than it’s just justified that that’s my least played environment… Not even close.
First of all, do you realize how fast you will die in actual PvP or even PvE never dodging any attacks? You will very rarely be at 100% of Endurance unless the enemy is just ignoring you entirely. That 10% uber-powerful buff would probably be up around 10-20% of the time in real fights.
I am. How about taking some of the PvP talents for PvP, then? Did you think about it? How about some for burst, or higher stun duration instead of on-paper statistical damage increase? Clarity sounds familiar?
Also… I’ll be a kitten and state your favorite statistics and say that by evading (3/4 sec.) you are only able to lower the statistical damage taken by 7,5% (once per 10 seconds). Don’t sweat it
Did you know that in PvE, you can evade with sword/greatsword (GS provides close to 30% statistical damage mitigation)? Or probably that Longbow has close to Sword damage output if used into full potential – meaning you can use this trait for Ranged combat to stay on par permanently?
Well, I can’t blame you if you didn’t.
As for the numbers on Enlargement, 25% damage increase every 60 seconds for 8 seconds maximum. Meaning essentially 3.3% extra damage if it’s constantly proccing exactly on time. So no, what I suggested was not unreasonable at all.
Bringing PvE statistics into PvP that is again, decided by burst. I still can’t blame you for not realizing the best use for a talent and using statistics.
Strider’s Defense is an RNG defensive trait with horrible design. “Oh, I randomly destroyed the enemy’s killshot!” Yeah, sound’s skillful. “Oh, I randomly destroyed half that thief’s unload!” Again, really skillful. And no, this trait won’t make Rangers good in zergs. And you are the one telling me I want the class to be too forgiving? >.>
Now is my time to throw dirt and blame. You kept clinging to your statistical (and not practice) use for so long, and when you can passively negate 50% of enemy ranged damage AS SUCH, NOT TO YOU, you start to overlook it? … I feel strange.
As for Most Dangerous Game, for a year now we’ve had two classes running around stacking 20+ might stacks on themselves for almost the entire duration of PvP games. And you will complain about 9-12 might stacks when you drop below 50% health?
Assuming we were viable even now, got lots and lots of love we needed in every direction I can think of, the bonus damage of this amount seems about right. You can realize that we are going to have 2 pets for blasts, 2 blasts on 30 second cooldown that even grants Swiftness and Fury (can be traited for Regen) – which means that we are totally able to get 20 might by ourselves anytime if you decide to play it that way. You might want to remember Axe, too.
I’ve never used Runes of the Trapper. Unfortunately, the balance team doesn’t really consider WvW, since the mode is pretty broken with food buffs and whatnot. Spike Trap on revive is a horrible trait in PvP, and useless for PvE as well.
This only proves most of my thoughts. Not only you want the ranger to be as easy to be played as he is, but as easy to master as well… But you even play false accusations based on nothing but personal feelings. You just said that you didn’t even bother trying the rune. How do you know if you never tried?
I’m aware that the trait is still underpowered. But your self-centered point of view is what I have in mind, because you go by it in most of your ideas.
P.S.
Swinging at air would make this trait a bit more interesting, if not sillier. But I doubt it works this way… likely you have to be hitting something.
It does. You don’t have to hit a thing. If I remember correctly, you only have to be in combat.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
Annoyingly passive aggressive and vague, and you make almost no real points about the class.
You fail to point out how anything I’m suggesting makes the class actually ‘easier’. And you remain in favor of silly RNG passives like Strider’s Defense.
As for Enlargement, you still haven’t specified what about having this proc at 50% instead of 25% would make it as overpowered and as forgiving as you pretend it would be. Other classes have extremely powerful 50% health procs for example Necromancer’s spectral Armor, which is even a minor trait. Mesmer has Illusionary Invigoration which recharges all Shatter skills when your health drops below 50%, this is a huge damage and utility increasing trait, and it would probably not be taken if it was at 25%. Having automatic procs when you are almost dead greatly reduces their value, and in reality, when you have say, 4-5K health left as a Ranger, the fight is almost over the majority of the time.
And no, it doesn’t matter at all that I haven’t tried Runes of the Trapper. They are not in PvP and don’t affect PvE. WvW is home to a number of things that are ridiculous like food buffs, Perplexity Runes, and Shadow Arts Thieves, etc. The mode is not considered by Arenanet seriously when implementing balance decisions. Its almost as though they treat it as a test area for PvP.
Ranger//Necro
Annoyingly passive aggressive and vague, and you make almost no real points about the class.
Yep, this is how people who I don’t agree with see my realistic nature. The question is: Is there a rule that says it’s you who made real points about the class? If so, wasn’t it you who made it? You haven’t proven me wrong, either.
You fail to point out how anything I’m suggesting makes the class actually ‘easier’. And you remain in favor of silly RNG passives like Strider’s Defense.
Silly RNG passives that are unique, powerful and useful, as well as rewarding are fine by me. But you seem to be just the guy who wants every class in the game to have the same spells with different names. “There’s a guy who has this and that on 10 second cooldown, I want my stuff on 10 second cooldown, too!” is how it sounds.
And I’m against it. A class should be looked at as a whole, not from a single spell’s point of view.
About enlargement… I’ve been using it for quite a long time. And I won lots and lots of fights thanks to that, just as I was able to survive and escape lots of them at the same time. Think out of the box of PvP=Zerk and find other combinations that it can be useful at. It gives you 5 stability, almost super speed, and 25% damage increase.
Which means it’s easier for you to run away, or easier for you to turn the table in case you and your enemy are on similar health level.
And I failed to explain how it makes the class easier? You want to make it an almost free stuff. Just like lots of other things.
You haven’t seen a single teeny bit of it in practice. You didn’t even THINK of possibilities or combinations where it could end up overpowered. The only thing you did was to look at different classes, their mechanics, and wanted the same system.
You might have thought that A-net did some research on their own. If their results die in practice, it’s never too late to update the numbers afterwards.
If you ask me, I thought of a combination of the Most Dangerous game, Enlargement, Remorseless, Knight’s Armor, and Greatsword used under Rampage as one.
Edit: I’d probably pair it with Runes of the Forge. I can see it working.
I would dare you to bring me under 25%. Not only you’d still have trouble getting me down through those 6K (daze, block, 30% evade), but every maul I hit will hurt you for mountains lot.
Here, it fits just fine. Starting at 50% would be overpowered. But did you think about it? If I’m correct, you stopped at comparing Rangers to Eles who can stack might, as well as current meta.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)