Guild Wars 2

/forum bug 15chars

jcbroe.4329:

The seem weak and scattered in their effectiveness.

I mean, time will tell, but I’m finding the traits for this spec the least impressive out of almost every other spec so far with this expac, and thqose tooltips from pet skills are NOT inspiring damage numbers.

Exactly. They are mostly uncreative and uninspired. For starters, stance is a boring mechanic, so I waited to see the traits if they were going to be more exciting. They are not.

Fresh Reinforcement : Another type of WHaO. Doesn’t work the same, but kinda.
Live Fast : Most are long cooldown. Fury ? Ranger has plenty. Quickness ? Good, fine.
Unstoppable Union : Break Stun and Unblockable. PvP oriented.

Furious Strength : Buff, but boring. No flavor.

Essence of Speed : Who will keep spamming Quickness just to get 2 secs more on each boon ? Meh at best.
Second Skin : Oh yay, tanky spec. NM + WS. Good, but boring.
Predator’s Cunning : One with some flavor. It will work well with Dagger, SB and Vulture Stance.

Twice as Vicious : Boring and forgettable. 5% damage and 5% condi damage ? That’s it !? Just another buff like Furious Strenght. No flavor.

Eternal Bond : Save your life. Mostly PvP oriented. Meh about it.
Leader of the Pack : The only one with a strong flavor. Should be 75% duration, 50% is too small.
Oppressive Superiority : And another boring buff.

I get it that if you add all the buffs from Soulbeast to Ranger core traits, it becomes very big. I still find it boring and lazy. Soulbeast traits lack of identity.

Most of Beast traits are in BM (another one in NM) and there is only one in SBeast.
Stances have one trait.
BeastMode have 3 traits, which are mostly PvP oriented.
Dagger gets one indirect trait.

jcbroe.4329:

I mean, time will tell, but I’m finding the traits for this spec the least impressive out of almost every other spec so far with this expac, and those tooltips from pet skills are NOT inspiring damage numbers.

i dont think damage will be a problem though, at least not on power builds. one of our biggest problems before was simply whiffing all of our damage. Unstoppable Union takes care of that. if you want damage, I believe an unblockable combo of Maul/hilt bash/maul, Wordly Leap and Path of Scars + quickness and our high ferocity should give us a repeatable ~12-14k aoe burst on a fairly low CD. I guess I’m thinking that, high survivability, and stance sharing should make us good enough for frontline deeps in wvw.

i believe we will dominate pvp with sb/d/d bleed/poison + Griffon Stance builds. I’m really looking forward to a monster condi bunker once again.

pve is whatever. looking pretty good.

that being said, i get what you’re saying and I am looking forward to the Spellbreaker, Firebrand and Scourge as well. but then again we thought druid was looking weak relative to other e-specs, and we ended up dominating for 2 years. as you said, there’s really no way to tell until we get our hands on the SLB.

The order of the traits seems well off, I’m not sure the wiki is correct… Hopefully not, if the wiki is correct, the traits are definitely in weird spots.

Fresh Reinforcement and Unstoppable Union competing in the same tier is absurd.

I’d make the top trait row be Fresh Reinforcement, Unstoppable Union and then Eternal Bond.

Middle Row would be Live Fast, Essence of Speed and Leader of the Pack.

Bottom row would be Second Skin, Predator’s Cunning and Oppressive Superiority.

That way you can focus on top row for beast mode interaction, middle row for boon interaction and bottom row for condition interaction.

My $0.02

Its…really hard for me to give a good opinion here. On the one hand. Easy access to 100% boon duration+ a cat pet = nearly 100% quickness uptime self buffed. With the cat on a low cooldown.

On the other. Without trait interactions the pet skills seem bound entirely to there utility unless you are a condition build.

I think the big kicker for me will be how the pet mechanics (things like GS2) interact with the beast skills. As well as traits like the 20% reduced cooldown on pet abilities from Pack Alpha.

I can see it being a really strong and fun spec. But I can agree that at face value it doesn’t quite have that same OMG SOULBEAST SO COOL. It seems like a good…solid…E-Spec. But until I can see those other machanics. It almost looks….normal.

I think the biggest problem of Soulbeast is, regardless of mechanic or potential usefulness, it’s the least visual impressive/ unique out of all the new specialization.
Doesn’t matter how good it could be, it looks least interesting out of all the specialization.

Just go watch the animation of Spellbraker, Renegate and so on and you’d know what I mean.

Our new dagger animation looks like some old animation coming from thief’s dagger and that’s all there is for us . All we get is some fugly green aura that I wish it gone.
Stance, while useful, would hardly look visually impressive at all too.

Permanent quickness as selling point is not anything special in the new specialization.
Firebrand got more GROUP QUICKNESS that seems to have 100% up time if you spec for 100% boon duration.
Spellbreaker specialize in removing all your boons (including quickness) and gain lots of quickness himself out of it.

jcbroe.4329:

I’m not sure I’m excited for this elite spec. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of synergy between the GMs and the functionality of the rest of the traits within the line. None of the traits themselves seem particularly strong either.

I mean, aside from some of the more obvious interactions, like building for a pet swap offensive build to take advantage of the unblockable trait, going into beastmode and going for the big burst, and F2/beast skill based build, or the condi DPS spec that will probably see more PvE use than anything else, I’m not really seeing how this elite spec competes well with Druid, outside of PvE (and even then people will still want Druids.

Maybe I need to get my hands on it but from the level of information we have, the mechanics are carrying the appeal, and the functionality in the traits is lacking.

I had the same feeling. I thought that if the wiki is correct on the order of traits, each trait tier are composed of good traits and I had a hard time choosing which one to use. (I think that is a good thing)

Aomine.5012:

Just go watch the animation of Spellbraker, Renegate and so on and you’d know what I mean.

this is just a matter of personal preference. I feel the Spellbreaker’s animations are mostly trash (as in unappealing, not low quality), other than the elite which looks stunning. Renegade, same thing. SB skills look fun, but the utilities I hate so much. I actually feel SLB has some of the better animations. Dagger looks great, Wordly Leap and Call Lightning are quite impressive to me. aaaand I happen to like the aura.

my 2c: I feel people are being a bit too harsh, possibly due to past traumas of ranger abuse by old devs. I feel ya. I see nothing but potential and a large variety of effective builds. For once, most traits look competitive and choosing will be more difficult.

Aomine.5012:

Spellbreaker specialize in removing all your boons (including quickness) and gain lots of quickness himself out of it.

not all your boons. he has to actually land his skills, and we can always reapply boons. in addition, look a Griffon Stance. how will a SB hit me if I’m chaining my invuln frames? sure, we’ll have to play around the elite, but it has a hefty CD. but the endurance regen bonus is not a boon.

Firebrand’s perma-quickness for the team will come at a price. this is more of a support e-spec, whereas the SLB is more of a duelist with a bit of support, as rangers tend to be.

I guess I’m just not seeing what you guys are seeing. I felt the same about the druid when everyone was crying about other better e-specs.

I’d like to see some counter to boon strip as well, not a “counter” as such but something to make it not completely destroy our boons without some repercussion, add to Essence of Speed since it’s pretty boring. Like; “Gaining quickness increases the duration of other boons affecting you. Whenever you lose a boon, Poison nearby foes.”

Only stripped boons, not ones ending on their own.

that would be pretty cool.

We onlty know place for Unstoppable union, Twice as vicious, Eternal bond, Oppressive superiority and Leader of the pack. All the rest is just guess some one made in reddit.

mistsim.2748:

Aomine.5012:

Just go watch the animation of Spellbraker, Renegate and so on and you’d know what I mean.

this is just a matter of personal preference. I feel the Spellbreaker’s animations are mostly trash (as in unappealing, not low quality), other than the elite which looks stunning. Renegade, same thing. SB skills look fun, but the utilities I hate so much. I actually feel SLB has some of the better animations. Dagger looks great, Wordly Leap and Call Lightning are quite impressive to me. aaaand I happen to like the aura.

my 2c: I feel people are being a bit too harsh, possibly due to past traumas of ranger abuse by old devs. I feel ya. I see nothing but potential and a large variety of effective builds. For once, most traits look competitive and choosing will be more difficult.

Aomine.5012:

Spellbreaker specialize in removing all your boons (including quickness) and gain lots of quickness himself out of it.

not all your boons. he has to actually land his skills, and we can always reapply boons. in addition, look a Griffon Stance. how will a SB hit me if I’m chaining my invuln frames? sure, we’ll have to play around the elite, but it has a hefty CD. but the endurance regen bonus is not a boon.

Firebrand’s perma-quickness for the team will come at a price. this is more of a support e-spec, whereas the SLB is more of a duelist with a bit of support, as rangers tend to be.

I guess I’m just not seeing what you guys are seeing. I felt the same about the druid when everyone was crying about other better e-specs.

I only brought up 2 classes for convenient sake.

My point is just look at the trait-line.
Compare to every other new specialization, their traitline is revolving around their new mechanic, like Renegate and their summon, Hollosmith and their heat, Mirage and their mirage image, Weaver and their dual attunement/ dual strike, Deadeye and their kneel/deathly mark, Firebrand and their tome, all of them have like 6 traits to modify their unique mechanic.

Soulbeast traits on the other hand seems completely random.
What’s so good about giving 10% bonus damage when foes has like 18k hp or less?
Also if you look it closely, NONE of the traits actually give any benefit that modify our unique f3 skills from merging with pets!
While most of the other specialization’s traits give 2~3 effect, Soulbeast traits tend to do exactly one thing, and that one thing is not always good too.
Like 10% damage when target is below your hp , really? It’s worse than a adapt trait.
60 sec cd death protection and small heal and no additional effect?
Siphon minimal hp when apply poison and no bonus stat/ modifier or anything unlike every other new specialization?
No trait that modifies dagger’s behavior/ effectiveness ?
Other than getting boons when entering beastmode, there’s nothing that modify the beastmode behaviour itself, like Deadeye’s malice/ Holosmith’s Heat, Mirage’s illusions and such.

I hope you take your time reading through every other classes’ skills and traits.
They’re all on wiki now.

Zorpi.5904:

We onlty know place for Unstoppable union, Twice as vicious, Eternal bond, Oppressive superiority and Leader of the pack. All the rest is just guess some one made in reddit.

Go check GW2 wiki.
Every traits and skills are out now.

No more guessing or speculation.

Aomine.5012:

Zorpi.5904:

We onlty know place for Unstoppable union, Twice as vicious, Eternal bond, Oppressive superiority and Leader of the pack. All the rest is just guess some one made in reddit.

Go check GW2 wiki.
Every traits and skills are out now.

No more guessing or speculation.

That was just updated from the information provided via the datamine, so there is no way of knowing if it is accurate either.

Edit: I think they have been arranged correctly now that I look a the image here also.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Aomine.5012:

Zorpi.5904:

We onlty know place for Unstoppable union, Twice as vicious, Eternal bond, Oppressive superiority and Leader of the pack. All the rest is just guess some one made in reddit.

Go check GW2 wiki.
Every traits and skills are out now.

No more guessing or speculation.

That was just updated from the information provided via the datamine, so there is no way of knowing if it is accurate either.

Usually dataminers are correct.

Also numbers are not the thing you need to know right now.
You need to know the mechanic and things they do, which won’t easily be changed at this point since it’s finished.
All Anet can do now is tweak some numbers before next week testing.

I guess I’m just not seeing your point. if you want trait synergy for F1-F3, just take the BM line for reduced pet ability cooldowns (Pack Alpha). the SLB train line fills in the other gaps of the core ranger, such as unblockable attacks. in other words, we already have traits that synergize with the new e-spec mechanic, but theyre in vanilla.

I just think you and a few others are vastly underestimating our F1-F3 abilities. all of the F3’s are quite powerful, and many F2’s are OP…such as Defy Pain, Swoop, and a few others. You need to play around with the different pet combinations.

also, take a closer look at our stances. 3 are very powerful, and 2 are niche. there is a ton of synergy with our weapons.

lastly, you’re being completely biased and not looking at the weaknesses of the other e-specs (I’ve read all the posted trait lines).

I added some of them and arranged them on the wiki. I used the datamining info from reddit, screens from the preview and the leaked skill wheel.
Might not be 100% accurate so better wait till Friday

Earix.5684:

I added some of them and arranged them on the wiki. I used the datamining info from reddit, screens from the preview and the leaked skill wheel.
Might not be 100% accurate so better wait till Friday

Cheers for adding them to the wiki and also letting us know.

mistsim.2748:

I guess I’m just not seeing your point. if you want trait synergy for F1-F3, just take the BM line for reduced pet ability cooldowns (Pack Alpha). the SLB train line fills in the other gaps of the core ranger, such as unblockable attacks. in other words, we already have traits that synergize with the new e-spec mechanic, but theyre in vanilla.

I just think you and a few others are vastly underestimating our F1-F3 abilities. all of the F3’s are quite powerful, and many F2’s are OP…such as Defy Pain, Swoop, and a few others. You need to play around with the different pet combinations.

also, take a closer look at our stances. 3 are very powerful, and 2 are niche. there is a ton of synergy with our weapons.

lastly, you’re being completely biased and not looking at the weaknesses of the other e-specs (I’ve read all the posted trait lines).

I kinda agree with you mostly. Some of the traits are geared towards SB+ Poison master But guess what? No one uses that trait in competitive PvP (I think I am the only one) that’s why you get so much hate with the recent SLB spec.

A lot of the traits are meh on the surface (I agree) but if you haven’t theorycrafted and played a lot of builds with competitive players and MMR, then you will dismiss a lot of them.

The only two traits that are weird to me was The protection trait – You have to build around it, and as rangers we don’t have a lot of sources that are reliable, one is dependent on a trait line (2 if you count the dodge one) and one is a shout.
The next weird one is Oppressive Superiority, this is just a flat out increase in damage which is also conditional. They could’ve done better with this one.

Eternal bond could use a 30 sec CD reduction. Like 60 cd. 90 is too much.

Stances:

Bear stance and Dolyak Stance is amazing. The other 2 not so much.

The elite could’ve been amazing but its on a global ICD. If its per target then this would be super good.

The OP stuff you mentioned are not OP at all. Like the black bear, yea immunity? sure. But outside of that, the bear is completely useless in PvE. So its such a good trade off.

StickerHappy.8052:

The only two traits that are weird to me was The protection trait – You have to build around it, and as rangers we don’t have a lot of sources that are reliable, one is dependent on a trait line (2 if you count the dodge one) and one is a shout.

Yep, it’s 3 core traits lines so you won’t have all the few sources of protection when picking soulbeast in the first place. You probably want the new Bark Skin trait for a good synergy, so you’ll have to choose between NM (for only one trait ?) and BM (with Protect Me and shouts traited + reduced CD with Beast skills). WS / BM / SB is the way to go to me for now (in a wvw roaming purpose).

Essence of Speed is absolutly useless (unless you gain 2 sec every sec of quickness, and still) and it’s a Master trait. With all the concentration around how Anet could have think this is a good Master trait ?

While i can see the synergy between SoulBeast and pretty much all the core ranger traits lines (rather than the synergy between traits inside the line), i fail to see the real purpose of the spec outside of the mechanic. It seems like it’s very boon sharing focused (nice everybody loves boons) but druid and core ranger can already have plenty of boons. The GM trait is too weak to make a Stances sharing build a thing.

Also i am concerned with the total lack of new mobility skills outside of few shorts (interruptible) leaps we’ll need to chain.

borya.2964:

StickerHappy.8052:

The only two traits that are weird to me was The protection trait – You have to build around it, and as rangers we don’t have a lot of sources that are reliable, one is dependent on a trait line (2 if you count the dodge one) and one is a shout.

Yep, it’s 3 core traits lines so you won’t have all the few sources of protection when picking soulbeast in the first place. You probably want the new Bark Skin trait for a good synergy, so you’ll have to choose between NM (for only one trait ?) and BM (with Protect Me and shouts traited + reduced CD with Beast skills). WS / BM / SB is the way to go to me for now (in a wvw roaming purpose)…

It’s a shame the Spirits have 1s cast time, do not move, do not have ammo charges for the mediocre active skills or are viable at all for PvP or WvW because Nature’s Vengeance and Stone Spirit would be pretty awesome with Second Skin and Rugged Growth.

Essence of Speed could do with 2s of Super Speed too.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Essence of Speed could do with 2s of Super Speed too.

Well, i was thinking something like :

- Fresh Reinforcement is the Minor Grandmaster Trait (new room for Minor Adpet, hello Stances !)
- Merge Twice as Vicious & Essence of Speed : when you gain Quickness you gain Vicious thingy (1% direct and condi damage) up to 5 stacks 1/3 sec CD.

borya.2964:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Essence of Speed could do with 2s of Super Speed too.

Well, i was thinking something like :

- Fresh Reinforcement is the Minor Grandmaster Trait (new room for Minor Adpet, hello Stances !)
- Merge Twice as Vicious & Essence of Speed : when you gain Quickness you gain Vicious thingy (1% direct and condi damage) up to 5 stacks 1/3 sec CD.

Sounds good to me, I’ll take that, tyvm!

100% hope I’m wrong, but I really don’t see this being good at anything in wvw. Not enough condi clear to make it roaming and not enough group support with traited stances to take a spot from a guard in groups.

Looks fun to play though…

zedapoc.1493:

100% hope I’m wrong, but I really don’t see this being good at anything in wvw. Not enough condi clear to make it roaming and not enough group support with traited stances to take a spot from a guard in groups.

Looks fun to play though…

Not enough condi clear?

10 condis removed @ 25s cd (Bear Stance + WK + StF)
2 condis removed @ 32s cd (LR) & 40s cd (QZ)
All movement impeding condis removed @ 35s cd (Unflinching Fortitude)
All condis removed @ 40s cd (SoR)
7 condis removed @ 48s cd, 5 converted to boons (Entangle + Lyssa runes)
-33% condi damage with Protection (Second Skin) which you get 2s of each dodge and 30% up time of vigor and +25% endurance regen via Natural Vigor. Then you can pick Eternal Bond for more Protection.

That’s likely enough condi clear.

mistsim.2748:

I guess I’m just not seeing your point. if you want trait synergy for F1-F3, just take the BM line for reduced pet ability cooldowns (Pack Alpha). the SLB train line fills in the other gaps of the core ranger, such as unblockable attacks. in other words, we already have traits that synergize with the new e-spec mechanic, but theyre in vanilla.

I just think you and a few others are vastly underestimating our F1-F3 abilities. all of the F3’s are quite powerful, and many F2’s are OP…such as Defy Pain, Swoop, and a few others. You need to play around with the different pet combinations.

also, take a closer look at our stances. 3 are very powerful, and 2 are niche. there is a ton of synergy with our weapons.

lastly, you’re being completely biased and not looking at the weaknesses of the other e-specs (I’ve read all the posted trait lines).

If Swoop is OP then why isn’t GS OP?

mistsim.2748:

jcbroe.4329:

I mean, time will tell, but I’m finding the traits for this spec the least impressive out of almost every other spec so far with this expac, and those tooltips from pet skills are NOT inspiring damage numbers.

i dont think damage will be a problem though, at least not on power builds. one of our biggest problems before was simply whiffing all of our damage. Unstoppable Union takes care of that. if you want damage, I believe an unblockable combo of Maul/hilt bash/maul, Wordly Leap and Path of Scars + quickness and our high ferocity should give us a repeatable ~12-14k aoe burst on a fairly low CD. I guess I’m thinking that, high survivability, and stance sharing should make us good enough for frontline deeps in wvw.

i believe we will dominate pvp with sb/d/d bleed/poison + Griffon Stance builds. I’m really looking forward to a monster condi bunker once again.

pve is whatever. looking pretty good.

that being said, i get what you’re saying and I am looking forward to the Spellbreaker, Firebrand and Scourge as well. but then again we thought druid was looking weak relative to other e-specs, and we ended up dominating for 2 years. as you said, there’s really no way to tell until we get our hands on the SLB.

Druid during the BWEs WAS weak though lol, until they realized that Celestial needed to work like Life Force instead of Adrenaline.

Yeah I don’t think it’ll be weak, I just think the traits lack a unique identity. It’s like they rounded up all the ideas that they wanted to add to Skirmishing and Wilderness Survival and threw them all together in a traitline then said “well we need to make sense of boons with this mechanic, so here’s this trait, here’s this Soulbeast version of a Berserker trait, and here’s a trait for stances.”

It’s inarguably strong and I don’t think people will be able to enjoy core Ranger anymore once they feel the mechanical improvements and depth Soulbeast will bring on that mechanical/functional front.

But that is also the weakness of the spec to me; it’s just a QoL upgrade to core ranger, with basically all of the traits being things we really should have and could have had to begin with.

It’s just…. disappointing to me I guess that my hype ended with the mechanics. Not trying to say it’s bad; how would I know, on top of it looking like a great improvement to Ranger lol.

I just really hope that when we get our hands on it first hand, somebody shows me something I’m missing with the traits.

Also if we don’t share those boons on the stances with the actual stance effect itself, we’re dead in the water in WvW groups as a Soulbeast. WvW has powercreeped so much that if you don’t bring everything that a group could possibly want in one build, you’re going to be replaced by something that can (which is why the core organized groups run Guard/Rev/Necro/Mesmer, elite specs on everything but Guard ofc).

All it really boils down to is me fingerscrossed wanting to be wrong about the impression the traits give me lol.

mistsim.2748:

I guess I’m just not seeing your point. if you want trait synergy for F1-F3, just take the BM line for reduced pet ability cooldowns (Pack Alpha). the SLB train line fills in the other gaps of the core ranger, such as unblockable attacks. in other words, we already have traits that synergize with the new e-spec mechanic, but theyre in vanilla.

I just think you and a few others are vastly underestimating our F1-F3 abilities. all of the F3’s are quite powerful, and many F2’s are OP…such as Defy Pain, Swoop, and a few others. You need to play around with the different pet combinations.

also, take a closer look at our stances. 3 are very powerful, and 2 are niche. there is a ton of synergy with our weapons.

lastly, you’re being completely biased and not looking at the weaknesses of the other e-specs (I’ve read all the posted trait lines).

Until next weekend we don’t know anything for sure, even then It can be nerfed/changed (look at lingering light) before even the release.

I get you are excited and probably new to the ranger but this white knigthing is tiresome. And there is no princess involve here.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

zedapoc.1493:

100% hope I’m wrong, but I really don’t see this being good at anything in wvw. Not enough condi clear to make it roaming and not enough group support with traited stances to take a spot from a guard in groups.

Looks fun to play though…

Not enough condi clear?

10 condis removed @ 25s cd (Bear Stance + WK + StF)
2 condis removed @ 32s cd (LR) & 40s cd (QZ)
All movement impeding condis removed @ 35s cd (Unflinching Fortitude)
All condis removed @ 40s cd (SoR)
7 condis removed @ 48s cd, 5 converted to boons (Entangle + Lyssa runes)
-33% condi damage with Protection (Second Skin) which you get 2s of each dodge and 30% up time of vigor and +25% endurance regen via Natural Vigor. Then you can pick Eternal Bond for more Protection.

That’s likely enough condi clear.

That’s a neat list, but what build capable of killing someone/fighting outnumbered would ever take most of that? 40s SoR isn’t good to use, ever. It remains to be seen, but I don’t see protection being good enough vs. all the boon hate.

I guess the best hope with bear is that it lets you skip SoS for more clears? But then you’re stuck with a trash pet that can’t utilize quickness (still doesn’t work on old pets afaik) outside of beast mode.

zedapoc.1493:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

zedapoc.1493:

100% hope I’m wrong, but I really don’t see this being good at anything in wvw. Not enough condi clear to make it roaming and not enough group support with traited stances to take a spot from a guard in groups.

Looks fun to play though…

Not enough condi clear?

10 condis removed @ 25s cd (Bear Stance + WK + StF)
2 condis removed @ 32s cd (LR) & 40s cd (QZ)
All movement impeding condis removed @ 35s cd (Unflinching Fortitude)
All condis removed @ 40s cd (SoR)
7 condis removed @ 48s cd, 5 converted to boons (Entangle + Lyssa runes)
-33% condi damage with Protection (Second Skin) which you get 2s of each dodge and 30% up time of vigor and +25% endurance regen via Natural Vigor. Then you can pick Eternal Bond for more Protection.

That’s likely enough condi clear.

That’s a neat list, but what build capable of killing someone/fighting outnumbered would ever take most of that? 40s SoR isn’t good to use, ever. It remains to be seen, but I don’t see protection being good enough vs. all the boon hate.

I guess the best hope with bear is that it lets you skip SoS for more clears? But then you’re stuck with a trash pet that can’t utilize quickness (still doesn’t work on old pets afaik) outside of beast mode.

You said it didn’t have enough condi clear, so I threw together a build that has virtual condi immunity, SoR for the investment is the best clear around!

Although that build is lacking speed boosts, you still have plenty of room to move in adding some, like WH. I wouldn’t run Bear, I’d go Alpine Wolf and Smokey for lots of CC or drop one of those for Owl with swiftness and Spiritual Reprieve. Whatever you want. I was just illustrating that the options are all there.

Caeledh.5437:

I saw the traits in the wiki just now.

And so died the hope that shapeshifting might be one of the unrevealed ones.

That’s two for two in disappointing elite specs for ranger.

Shapeshifting will never be a simple trait, we may get an elite spec and get “kits” that shapeshift us, but there’s no way Anet is going to put all the resources needed for a player character to be able to shapeshift into every pet we can get.

Keep your hopes reasonable, we could get 6 shapeshifts if Anet is feeling generous and goves the “shapeshifter” espec “kits”, but more realistically I think it’d probably function more like Firebrands Tomes, where they’d get a set amount (likely no more than 3) useable without giving up a utility.

Durzlla.6295:

Caeledh.5437:

I saw the traits in the wiki just now.

And so died the hope that shapeshifting might be one of the unrevealed ones.

That’s two for two in disappointing elite specs for ranger.

Shapeshifting will never be a simple trait, we may get an elite spec and get “kits” that shapeshift us, but there’s no way Anet is going to put all the resources needed for a player character to be able to shapeshift into every pet we can get.

Keep your hopes reasonable, we could get 6 shapeshifts if Anet is feeling generous and goves the “shapeshifter” espec “kits”, but more realistically I think it’d probably function more like Firebrands Tomes, where they’d get a set amount (likely no more than 3) useable without giving up a utility.

I can’t see shapeshifting ever happening because there would be too much QQ about fashion wars and it would be too similar to Soulbeast now.

Although…. Petless shapeshifter, 3 “forms” like elementalist attunements; F1: Ursan Blessing, F2: Volfen Blessing & F3: Raven Blessing. Could be cool. Doubt its gonna happen heh.

anduriell.6280:

mistsim.2748:

I guess I’m just not seeing your point. if you want trait synergy for F1-F3, just take the BM line for reduced pet ability cooldowns (Pack Alpha). the SLB train line fills in the other gaps of the core ranger, such as unblockable attacks. in other words, we already have traits that synergize with the new e-spec mechanic, but theyre in vanilla.

I just think you and a few others are vastly underestimating our F1-F3 abilities. all of the F3’s are quite powerful, and many F2’s are OP…such as Defy Pain, Swoop, and a few others. You need to play around with the different pet combinations.

also, take a closer look at our stances. 3 are very powerful, and 2 are niche. there is a ton of synergy with our weapons.

lastly, you’re being completely biased and not looking at the weaknesses of the other e-specs (I’ve read all the posted trait lines).

Until next weekend we don’t know anything for sure, even then It can be nerfed/changed (look at lingering light) before even the release.

I get you are excited and probably new to the ranger but this white knigthing is tiresome. And there is no princess involve here.

I’m not quite as optimistic as Mistsim here, but the guy has been playing Ranger and posting in these very forums for at least four years; I find it funny that he’s being accused of being new to the class because he sees merit in the elite spec.

Soulbeast will have its place, I’m sure.

14 straight seconds of unblockable attacks lol.

I’m sorry but this spec is absolutely insane.

DeceiverX.8361:

14 straight seconds of unblockable attacks lol.

I’m sorry but this spec is absolutely insane.

Until Anet nerf it to the ground like they did to Druid back when HoT launch lolz..
(In beta they were the last to be tested , too op, so they nerf it right at launch because there’s no time for testing cuz they test Druid way too late)

Tis the fate of ranger. It’s unavoidable.

Druid was completely and totally overpowered and broken, and still can be a a strong pick. It needed those nerfs, not that other specs arent undeserving, either.

Even if they cut the unblockable in half that’s still insane. With the amount of synergy in MMS and the kiting potential on birds the kit still looks bonkers strong.

Thief elite spec can remove reveal.

Come back when that gets removed and then we can talk about if Soulbeast is OP.

What if the bird skill requires a target? Those sorts of details aren’t ever in tooltips.

Probably too early to tell if anything is overpowered.

Where’s the strong synergy like other elites have? It needs some tweaking and focus. I’d prefer this kind of layout and changes.

Levetty.1279:

If Swoop is OP then why isn’t GS OP?

because it takes up an entire weapon slot. this is just an ability you can have on top of a full loadout. you can build a bunker Soulbeast with Swoop to disengage if you want, for example.

Aomine.5012:

Until Anet nerf it to the ground like they did to Druid back when HoT launch lolz..

what the hell are you talking about? you realize druid remains in the pvp A tier as we speak? the minstrel druid is in the B tier as support in wvw. druid has been one of the strongest picks in pvp for two years now, and all the adjustments it received were necessary due to how broken it was.

Sevans.4619:

I’m not quite as optimistic as Mistsim here, but the guy has been playing Ranger and posting in these very forums for at least four years; I find it funny that he’s being accused of being new to the class because he sees merit in the elite spec.

Soulbeast will have its place, I’m sure.

appreciate this. I don’t necessarily enjoy saying that I’ve put out multiple well received guides and clips under my main Ikiro, or played at the top mmr for years, and did gvg with some of the top guilds in the game (not on the ranger). it’s all good though, maybe I’ve gotten bad. I just feel the rangers forums are especially dominated by a handful of really negative, doomsaying, out of touch players with questionable experience in pvp… I don’t have to point fingers here. and I appreciate the pessimist as well, as long as you’re reasoning your thoughts, and are backed up with experience like Jcbroe and a few others here.

in the end, it doesnt matter. the forums are here for everyone to express their concerns or praises, just dont be rude while doing so.

so I’m not trying to white-knight anything, I’m just optimistic and excited by the possible builds (and I’ve been posting a lot because I’m stressed about exams atm). I have also made it clear that I have almost complete faith in Irenio because I’ve enjoyed his consistent work since the druid was announced. and I see Soulbeast delivering on many levels.

mistsim.2748:

Levetty.1279:

If Swoop is OP then why isn’t GS OP?

because it takes up an entire weapon slot. this is just an ability you can have on top of a full loadout. you can build a bunker Soulbeast with Swoop to disengage if you want, for example.

No it just takes up our pet slot and then stows our pet.

jcbroe.4329:

Kreed.2768:

Caeledh.5437:

I saw the traits in the wiki just now.

And so died the hope that shapeshifting might be one of the unrevealed ones.

That’s two for two in disappointing elite specs for ranger.

Considering how many different pets we already have and will get in the future, shapeshifting would have been too huge an undertaking to achieve visually. And why are some people so hung up on the whole shapeshifting thing anyway? I’m honestly curious here.

They want the game to sacrifice it’s identity so that they can play a ripoff WoW shrugs

Let’s not seriously pretend that our Druid wasn’t heavily inspired by WoW’s druid with it’s focus on healing and zapping moonbeams and lunar energy all over the place.

We even turn into a spirit wisp with our staff.

Now Mistsim made me feel like I need to clarify my position to everybody else passing through reading lol.

I’m SUPER hyped for Soulbeast, regardless of my happiness with the traits at this point.

Aside from me needing to confirm some mechanical things, the spec has TONS of interaction with existing traits like Remorseless and new traits like the new Skirmishing fury trait (Ferocious Quarry? I’ll learn names sooner or later). I mean, we’re talking insane burst potential here with that unblockable trait plus pet swap traits plus Remorseless. Things like popping into Beastmode to land the GS combo, traiting for taunt on Beast skill, using idk, the Smokescales Beastmode Beast skill, swapping to LB and comboing into Rapid Fire while their taunted, leave Beastmode, Fury procs Remorseless again on the Knockback and as you Knockback you F1 your Smokescale onto the enemy for the boon empowered smoke assault.

Or with Condi Builds, the Dagger is going to be a strong tool, especially with Quickness. I know people are excited for D/D SB, but we also have the serious potential to revive the old A/D S/T playstyle here by replacing that sword with a dagger, along with more combo ability. Double leap through a fire field, condi burst on both sets, Beastmode skills with condi scaling on player stats.

I know I’ve spoken mostly about my concerns so far, but that’s mostly because I need to ground myself in reality or otherwise my hype will push my expectations beyond the actual implementation in the live game.

Realistically, there are so many potentially viable combinations of builds for the different gamemodes that it’s impossible to see what isn’t effective right now until it faces off against the content and against other players.

zedapoc.1493:

100% hope I’m wrong, but I really don’t see this being good at anything in wvw. Not enough condi clear to make it roaming and not enough group support with traited stances to take a spot from a guard in groups.

Looks fun to play though…

A: Did you miss the balance pass on Tuesday? The one that lets a traited troll’s remove 4 conditions every cast?

B: I’ve almost never seen a squad that had “enough guards”. It just doesn’t happen. If I can still manage a pity place as a Druid, being able to bring team stab and resistance, even at a small duration, is going to make us much better. To say nothing of the pet no longer dying on “Inc!”.

I’m already seeing commanders in teamspeak say Soulbeast looks promising and these are the same people who explicitly request ranger players bring a different class if able.

As for roaming I really don’t know how you can look at the tank bears bring or the movement Swoop gives us and say this won’t be good for roaming.

The only place Soulbeast falls flat is PvE power builds. It’s very solid for every other game mode and will likely have more flexibility than Druid.

Substance E.4852:

jcbroe.4329:

Kreed.2768:

Caeledh.5437:

I saw the traits in the wiki just now.

And so died the hope that shapeshifting might be one of the unrevealed ones.

That’s two for two in disappointing elite specs for ranger.

Considering how many different pets we already have and will get in the future, shapeshifting would have been too huge an undertaking to achieve visually. And why are some people so hung up on the whole shapeshifting thing anyway? I’m honestly curious here.

They want the game to sacrifice it’s identity so that they can play a ripoff WoW shrugs

Let’s not seriously pretend that our Druid wasn’t heavily inspired by WoW’s druid with it’s focus on healing and zapping moonbeams and lunar energy all over the place.

We even turn into a spirit wisp with our staff.

Are you sure it wasn’t DnD? Or literally any other Role-playing game even before the era of digital gaming that had Druids?

Alright, I’ll use GW2 lore instead of being dismissive; outside of “potions/concoctions/etc,” the only PC race that can transform (Dervishes in GW1 took on Godly Avatars, but thematically channeling that sort of magic has translated into the Revenant’s area of expertise already) is Norns. Similarly to those Dervish Avatars, Norn transformations can occur because of the bond they have with their “gods,” ie Nature Spirits.

Assuming we even used those transformations as a basis for the argument of transformations, you’d have to use different animals/spirits than the Norn so it’s applicable to all PC races, without also “stealing” Revenant’s motif.

And even then, it doesn’t explain how or why or what all the PC races would be able to unanimously align to and subsequently transform into that doesn’t violate or weaken the PC race lore rules.

And if you want to make the potions argument, well, Engineer, especially seeing as how they already have a transforming elixir, would be a more likely candidate. BUT this would be the only logical, reasonable explanation, although you’d functionally want them to to function more like kits than elixirs. And even then, from a visual balance standpoint, ANet reserves transformations for “big” effect skills, as in, they’re all elites.

If anything the closest thing you’d get is the equivalent of a weapon conjure and maybe a pallette swap.

Substance E.4852:

The only place Soulbeast falls flat is PvE power builds. It’s very solid for every other game mode and will likely have more flexibility than Druid.

Soulbeast looks very promising in PvE as well as a condition build. The recent changes have lowered condition damage from the pets like Lynx and Bristleback, which brings them more in-line with power-focused pets like the Jaguar and Tiger.

That said, Soulbeast is a solid candidate for replacing Beastmastery in the condition Ranger build. Seeing how team caps prevent boons and buffs from being applied to pets, with regards to previously mentioned changes – it’s a safe bet that Soulbeast will see play in PvE as well.

PvE power builds for Ranger probably won’t ever be a thing, but a Griever build might surface in PvE with Marksmanship-Skirmishing-Soulbeast.

jcbroe.4329:

Substance E.4852:

jcbroe.4329:

Kreed.2768:

Caeledh.5437:

I saw the traits in the wiki just now.

And so died the hope that shapeshifting might be one of the unrevealed ones.

That’s two for two in disappointing elite specs for ranger.

Considering how many different pets we already have and will get in the future, shapeshifting would have been too huge an undertaking to achieve visually. And why are some people so hung up on the whole shapeshifting thing anyway? I’m honestly curious here.

They want the game to sacrifice it’s identity so that they can play a ripoff WoW shrugs

Let’s not seriously pretend that our Druid wasn’t heavily inspired by WoW’s druid with it’s focus on healing and zapping moonbeams and lunar energy all over the place.

We even turn into a spirit wisp with our staff.

Are you sure it wasn’t DnD? Or literally any other Role-playing game even before the era of digital gaming that had Druids?

I’ve played DnD before, zapping moonbeams around wasn’t really what they did. Frankly, they didn’t do much of anything useful for a longtime compared to other casters.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/druidSpells.htm

Wondrouswall.7169:

PvE power builds for Ranger probably won’t ever be a thing, but a Griever build might surface in PvE with Marksmanship-Skirmishing-Soulbeast.

The changes Tuesday make it much better though probably still not as good as condi.

I guess my point was that the current form of SB is really not even worth slotting on a power build. The traits don’t look like they would offset the damage boost from any of the three power lines and beastmode doesn’t offer enough dps over just leaving a cat out the whole fight.

I don’t even really get what they thought they were doing. This was their chance to make both types fairly even and all they did was give a massive boost to the spec that was already better.

Substance E.4852:

jcbroe.4329:

Substance E.4852:

jcbroe.4329:

Kreed.2768:

Caeledh.5437:

I saw the traits in the wiki just now.

And so died the hope that shapeshifting might be one of the unrevealed ones.

That’s two for two in disappointing elite specs for ranger.

Considering how many different pets we already have and will get in the future, shapeshifting would have been too huge an undertaking to achieve visually. And why are some people so hung up on the whole shapeshifting thing anyway? I’m honestly curious here.

They want the game to sacrifice it’s identity so that they can play a ripoff WoW shrugs

Let’s not seriously pretend that our Druid wasn’t heavily inspired by WoW’s druid with it’s focus on healing and zapping moonbeams and lunar energy all over the place.

We even turn into a spirit wisp with our staff.

Are you sure it wasn’t DnD? Or literally any other Role-playing game even before the era of digital gaming that had Druids?

I’ve played DnD before, zapping moonbeams around wasn’t really what they did. Frankly, they didn’t do much of anything useful for a longtime compared to other casters.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/druidSpells.htm

Druids in reality have a huge focus on lunar cycles and astral bodies, so I assumed that’s where they kinda got the moon laser things from.

And as someone who plays DnD Druids quite excessively I can safely say they focus way more on transforming into things, summoning stuff, and then spells to utilize plants or the elements.

Kinda upset our Druid doesn’t do any of the non astral stuff with staff/human form glyphs.

Durzlla.6295:

Substance E.4852:

jcbroe.4329:

Substance E.4852:

jcbroe.4329:

Kreed.2768:

Caeledh.5437:

I saw the traits in the wiki just now.

And so died the hope that shapeshifting might be one of the unrevealed ones.

That’s two for two in disappointing elite specs for ranger.

Considering how many different pets we already have and will get in the future, shapeshifting would have been too huge an undertaking to achieve visually. And why are some people so hung up on the whole shapeshifting thing anyway? I’m honestly curious here.

They want the game to sacrifice it’s identity so that they can play a ripoff WoW shrugs

Let’s not seriously pretend that our Druid wasn’t heavily inspired by WoW’s druid with it’s focus on healing and zapping moonbeams and lunar energy all over the place.

We even turn into a spirit wisp with our staff.

Are you sure it wasn’t DnD? Or literally any other Role-playing game even before the era of digital gaming that had Druids?

I’ve played DnD before, zapping moonbeams around wasn’t really what they did. Frankly, they didn’t do much of anything useful for a longtime compared to other casters.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/druidSpells.htm

Druids in reality have a huge focus on lunar cycles and astral bodies, so I assumed that’s where they kinda got the moon laser things from.

And as someone who plays DnD Druids quite excessively I can safely say they focus way more on transforming into things, summoning stuff, and then spells to utilize plants or the elements.

Kinda upset our Druid doesn’t do any of the non astral stuff with staff/human form glyphs.

I mean it’s definitely possible but WoW is the 30 million active player elephant in the room and lunar themes play heavily into their druid via the connection to Night Elf lore the class has.

It’s likely not the only influence but it’s hard to say that there was no influence either. I’d even go so far as to say the WoW Death knight probably helped shape what Reaper became (at least while wielding a GS).