Guild Wars 2

So every class has gotten improved with the the new trait system, except ranger and engi both of which have gotten worse and fallen by the way side. I’ve been hammering on the thieves and mesmers from ranged and they just heal and stealth right through it. FYI, a pet should be part of our control system, if you think they can be 30% of our damage, then find a new game! Note: I’ve been top 50 for the last 2 years, if u say L2P then F* off!

Start using our best dps weapon set. Your trying to play it safe with Lb and then complain its isn’t enough.

Using a weapon set that require a target against classes that stealth making them untargetable really isn’t the best way to play. You were at a disadvantage before you event started.

Your rank doesn’t mean anything there is always something to learn and to improve upon.

We all die. The thing is how. Did they have to chase you down a kill you like a dog. Did you just lay down and die. Did stand your ground and fight tooth and nail and take as many as you could with you. Even after being dispatch did you come back more determine, wiser after seeing their tactics and play style.

We don’t have it easy and ranger wouldn’t be my main if we did, but we rangers adapt we overcome. When we dispatch someone it’s us that does it. It not the class that carries us.

When a ranger is good he is kitten good. When its a thieve or Mesmer it very questionable.

I tried a power and condi build wtf else is there? If u can’t power down thief/mesmer, then ur screwed! Condi.: Next is necro/ medi guard, hello ur so screwed, u can’t disengage and ucant out condi. Soo….. u die!

So, we lose to thief, mesmer, necro, guard, what is left (forget ranger 1v1) all we have left is warrior and ele omg ur so f" again!

after the update some classes are a bit OP they already no this
but i agree ranger can use some serious more damage

and stile pets are crap in wvw/pvp
they stile get nerft when you enter those areas dunno why

other problem is way to much stack con damage just bring it back to 25
ore make builds so the more toughness/armor you have the less damage you get from con damage then ad least i no it works for tanky build players like me

Since the Update, I’ve played three classes pretty heavily. The Mesmer, the Thief, and the Ranger.

The Mesmer is too strong, but that happens when you rework how a class functions and provide it with the tools it needs amid a massive alteration to the landscape. It’s known that they’re too strong, and the very reason I switched off was due to the multiple nerfs they’d already put on the class was making it hard to get a feel for it. Even though it’s holding atm, I’ll wait until the game is a bit more stable to give it a try.

The thief… the thief honestly got it bad this last patch. Boosted condition gameplay in all modes at the same time their conditions clearance got severely toned down, a lack of immob or stun break w/o very specific builds, lowered spike damage while other classes got better burst resistance – I know many people rate Necro/Ranger as the bottom classes, but having played a thief in Dungeons/Fractals/WvW I can say they are certainly living down to the reputation.

As for the Ranger… we have bugs. Yes, I know every class has a few bugs here and there, but the ranger bugs appear in every build I’ve seen. Traits that do literally nothing. Skills that only function to half of what they’re supposed to. A class ability that seems to be taking itself offline when we use Golems…during a golem event. Promises on specific buffs and features that aren’t yet implemented despite a dire need.

However, aside from those bugs (and that’s a BIG aside, I admit) I feel like the class is in a great place. I was flipping a camp earlier that was boosted by Hyleks, only to be caught by a thief right as I was coming to the end of the battle. I was able to not only hold my own, but the battle ended with both of us in a downed state. Sadly, buggy pet AI prevented me from getting the kill, but I started at less than 50% HP and most of my skills on CD and still walked away. Later, I returned to that camp and managed the slip only to have a solid 5 man team come at me. I was able to break combat and change the locale, and when the lone ele came after me I was able to take the battle to her face until the rest of the party realized I was still around and joined in.

If you go to the Ele forums, there have been posts asking each other how to deal with these new melee builds.

Yes, we have some completely dead skill lines – Looking at you spirits – but so do Necros (Minions) and Engineers (Turrets).

Rangers aren’t dead.

We just have a bad stomach bug.

Terminator.8021:

I tried a power and condi build wtf else is there? If u can’t power down thief/mesmer, then ur screwed! Condi.: Next is necro/ medi guard, hello ur so screwed, u can’t disengage and ucant out condi. Soo….. u die!

So, we lose to thief, mesmer, necro, guard, what is left (forget ranger 1v1) all we have left is warrior and ele omg ur so f" again!

There is:
Celestial Decapper
Condi Trapper
Carrion Evade Survivalist
Minion point Holder
…

But before I’ll go on and on – I’ll tell you this.
You came into PvP to kill. Not to improve – and that’s your fault.
You came into PvP to win duels and fights. Not a game – and that’s your fault.
You picked a class that has highest skill cap in this game – and that’s your fault.

I’m still even thinking why did you start playing PvP with this attitude in the 1st place. I’m not even surprised that you keep losing every single match-up.
You already received lots of advice so I guess you have the space to fill the gaps now.

For me, only thing that is immensely wrong with ranger is the bloody pet mechanics. Either correct it or just remove it I say. Otherwise playing a ranger is the easiest thing you can do in this game. But learning how to play correctly is the hardest.

There are some op classes yes. And rangers need changes, yes. Pet is stupid, again yes. But rangers arent dead yet friend

alain.1659:

For me, only thing that is immensely wrong with ranger is the bloody pet mechanics. Either correct it or just remove it I say. Otherwise playing a ranger is the easiest thing you can do in this game. But learning how to play correctly is the hardest.

There are some op classes yes. And rangers need changes, yes. Pet is stupid, again yes. But rangers arent dead yet friend

This.
Rangers are the class to exploit the enemy. Our damage lacks high burst or immense utility, but we have enormous amount of evades and ways to counter the enemy.

That being said – we are the class that rewards you for playing good unlike other classes that reward you for clicking abilities in correct order.

I’m been playing a Power Ranger in PvP and WvWvW roaming (except this week… stupid golems…), and I got a huge buff from the patch.

Now I can remove 8 conditions on demand.

Now my pets blind and taunt in an area of effect when I use their F2.

Huge buffs to my control and survivability, and I couldn’t be happier.

MattyP.6954:

I’m been playing a Power Ranger in PvP and WvWvW roaming (except this week… stupid golems…), and I got a huge buff from the patch.

Now I can remove 8 conditions on demand.

Now my pets blind and taunt in an area of effect when I use their F2.

Huge buffs to my control and survivability, and I couldn’t be happier.

But you won’t explain this to people. They lost 5% dmg in pew pew builds.
<chuckle>

I run a LB – S/D – Shout/Survival ranger. I keep seeing threads popping up about people having trouble with their ranger and can only wonder, what exactly are they doing to have this trouble.

My pet can tank a champ like a boss, I can sit back and range it down. But then, I have always enjoyed being a LB sniper, so guess it all goes with personal play style.

Ranger now has a vast variety of choices that … Frankly sound viable (not OP, though, we have Warrs and Eles for this).

You see, plenty of Rangers play the class because you don’t have to do anything. Pet tanks the stuff, your DPS comes from 1 button… One can only wonder how that type of playstyle would bring them towards sunshine.

Eh there’s alot of bad rangers and there are good rangers… Try fighting Tanbin the guy is the best ranger I’ve ever come across or played against and he runs both power and condi builds insanely effectively.

There’s alot more to it than ‘pet tanking damage’ and ‘dmg from 1 button’ which is the most idiotic summary of a class I’ve seen. No classes are like that, even classes with bow abilities.

That’s like saying celestial carries: Ele, necro right now and their skills and the skill use means nothing because they run celestial. No skill at all, just amulet doing the work for them.

Or saying mesmer is carried by traits now, no , bad mesmers get wrecked, good mesmers use the skills given accordingly and appropriately to win fights based on who they fight.

It’s no different with ranger.. I’ve only played ranger personally a little bit and only in PVE but I play ele/thief at mid-top levels in PvP and play exceptionally well for zerker ele in WvW (sometimes ill put on cele if i duel great players as the sustain on d/d zerk isn’t nearly as good ) but I follow the forums alot and read from many class forums and I will say while ranger is the least powerful out of all classes currently, it still can be played extremely well. There’s a skill ceiling on the class sure, but it’s alot higher than people think.

@Situations
I might have been misunderstood, but what I meant is that players expect the “1 button game” to be as effective as the Ele’s full rotation. And of course – just like you already said – there’s much more there is to it.

I’ve always said that Ranger is the easiest class to play, but the most difficult one to master. The skill cap on our class is pushed the furthest.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Situations
I might have been misunderstood, but what I meant is that players expect the “1 button game” to be as effective as the Ele’s full rotation. And of course – just like you already said – there’s much more there is to it.

I’ve always said that Ranger is the easiest class to play, but the most difficult one to master. The skill cap on our class is pushed the furthest.

Oh! Sorry man, yea I totally misunderstood that. My bad haha

Thanks for clarifying

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Situations
I might have been misunderstood, but what I meant is that players expect the “1 button game” to be as effective as the Ele’s full rotation. And of course – just like you already said – there’s much more there is to it.

I’ve always said that Ranger is the easiest class to play, but the most difficult one to master. The skill cap on our class is pushed the furthest.

this is only because our tools are pathetic. our best power set, LB/GS, is laughably clumsy in comparison to what other power builds bring to the table. playing a flawless ranger and never making a mistake doesn’t get you anywhere against a perfectly played Mesmer, warrior, d/p thief even, or d/d ele for example. all these guys can basically come to any fight and either spam pbaoe’s and cc’s while tanking 2 people like the ele, or instagib people repeatedly like the warrior and mes.

Thieves are of less concern than they have probably ever been for a ranger, a mesmer on the other hand is probably unbeatable now if played right, atleast for ranger but it’s not because of the stealth really they don’t need PU (although the 100% increase from PU is too much) to blow you up in 1 split second they do too much damage.

ive beaten plenty of good Mesmers 1v1 with my builds, but that’s not my point. the Mesmer simply contributes more damage and utility to a fight, and is much more effective against better players. so obviously, no need to bring a ranger over a Mesmer. we literally have zero utility. spirits are useless, cant slot traps without getting smoked, and beastly warden has been nerfed into near-uselessness for no kittening reason.

mistsim.2748:

this is only because our tools are pathetic. our best power set, LB/GS, is laughably clumsy in comparison to what other power builds bring to the table. playing a flawless ranger and never making a mistake doesn’t get you anywhere against a perfectly played Mesmer, warrior, d/p thief even, or d/d ele for example. all these guys can basically come to any fight and either spam pbaoe’s and cc’s while tanking 2 people like the ele, or instagib people repeatedly like the warrior and mes.

Only partly true.
Ranger has something that Mesmer lacks. Ranger with the right build is extremely difficult to focus, and I believe you know what I’m talking about.

We have been offered a huge loads of defensive and utility options that made our sustained damage more durable just like that. While mesmer will die for slipping a finger, Ranger will get 2-3 chances.
And I believe our bunker options were buffed a bunch.

I mean yea, lots of things changed and we can’t instakill people from stealth… But when it comes to contribution, I find Rangers in much better position now than we were before.

Tragic Positive.9356:

There is:
Celestial Decapper
Condi Trapper
Carrion Evade Survivalist
Minion point Holder
.

I play PvE and I believe I run that evade survivalist ^^
Skirmish, wilderness survival and marksmanship with sword/dagger, dagger (other offhand) right?

Pets. Major problem is the kitten -more stupid than a chipped rock with a mud on it- pets. Other changes, some are really good, some are bad, are debatable. But we can really do some serious damage, and could do more if the pet mechanics were actually working.

But the main problem is not the ranger, but the other professions. Some can not be killed , no matter how hard you try. Ranger used to be a hard counter for many professions, but now it is gone. So what do we have now?

Our skills. Now it is really hard and risky to play a ranger. Even what you call “pew pew”. But it is kitten fun.

Sarahfull.4930:

I play PvE and I believe I run that evade survivalist ^^
Skirmish, wilderness survival and marksmanship with sword/dagger, dagger (other offhand) right?

For PvE the way to go would be remorseless GS+S/A build.
For Sinister (condi) the A/D+S/T Poison Master trapper.

For open content the Evade survivalist might just be fun, though. I wasn’t using Marksmanship but BeastMastery instead. The quickness was really helpful.
S/D + SB was my setup. The rest is just the way you mentioned.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Sarahfull.4930:

I play PvE and I believe I run that evade survivalist ^^
Skirmish, wilderness survival and marksmanship with sword/dagger, dagger (other offhand) right?

For PvE the way to go would be remorseless GS+S/A build.
For Sinister (condi) the A/D+S/T Poison Master trapper.

For open content the Evade survivalist might just be fun, though. I wasn’t using Marksmanship but BeastMastery instead. The quickness was really helpful.
S/D + SB was my setup. The rest is just the way you mentioned.

*For open world PVE; for dungeons and fractals, you should be running this as your build for maximum damage.

I just dont have these problems. Granted I hated my ranger for a long time. After they added the trapper runes though I love it. I play a zerker build with trapper runes. I can engage or disengage at will. I put out some of if not the highest burst dmg. I play like a thief that almost seems better than a thief cus no innititive and I can stealth on demand anytime with a trap. The stealth durations stack so i can drop more than one trap for many seconds of stealth to help get away when needed or ambush somebody from stealth that they never saw coming.

I played pvp with somebody new to the game. Gave him a ranger shout build. Dude was holding his own.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

I just dont have these problems. Granted I hated my ranger for a long time. After they added the trapper runes though I love it. I play a zerker build with trapper runes. I can engage or disengage at will. I put out some of if not the highest burst dmg. I play like a thief that almost seems better than a thief cus no innititive and I can stealth on demand anytime with a trap.

I KNOW, right? If an activated trap didn’t break the stealth, I’d almost say the runes are too powerful. Especially against AI; resetting the targets is just too good.

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

*For open world PVE; for dungeons and fractals, you should be running this as your build for maximum damage.

I’m not twice sure about that.
For dungeons I have been doing far better with GS + S/A than Longbow.
Better burst, Better cleave for thrash, higher DPS (lover initial tunnel, though), higher Vuln uptime, better mobility…
I use a variation of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ljux9o5FGM

For higher level Fractals I run the Longbow version, though. Single Target tunnel there has the priority.

Tragic Positive.9356:

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

*For open world PVE; for dungeons and fractals, you should be running this as your build for maximum damage.

I’m not twice sure about that.
For dungeons I have been doing far better with GS + S/A than Longbow.
Better burst, Better cleave for thrash, higher DPS (lover initial tunnel, though), higher Vuln uptime, better mobility…
I use a variation of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ljux9o5FGM

For higher level Fractals I run the Longbow version, though. Single Target tunnel there has the priority.

Originally, the Remorseless build seemed better, but another DnT member named Pernix released this build that does 10-15% more damage compared to the Remorseless. The extra vulnerbility is nice, but the vulnerbility stacks usually isn’t needed to be focused since a party can keep the vulnerbility up through traits and weapons. The higher DPS seems it is there, but Predator’s Onslaught is better since it is usually kept static through movement debuffs caused by other part members and yourself. There are too few fury procs you can achieve to make Remorseless worth it, and other outside fury procs don’t really help its damage even. I did recorded the results and put them up here that shows Remorseless isn’t all too viable. The auto attack chain with sword is also critical since we don’t have Fortifying Bond anymore to help with might uptime on the pet to boost its damage, not having that might for our pets hurts us since our pet damage is tied to our overall damage… Even with a Phalanx Strength Warrior, the pet doesn’t receive the might since the trait distributes might to 5 players, also including the Warrior, so the boons share will prioritize the players over the pet.

Thanks but no thanks.

I’m running zerk sword/dagger offhand dagger survival ranger in fractal 50 and I’m doing great.

I do run frost spirit although not spotter. I like my lower cd on sword skills as I love my evades ( yes all of them ).

Sarah

Sarahfull.4930:

Thanks but no thanks.

I’m running zerk sword/dagger offhand dagger survival ranger in fractal 50 and I’m doing great.

I do run frost spirit although not spotter. I like my lower cd on sword skills as I love my evades ( yes all of them ).

Sarah

I can understand taking Wilderness Survival for more survivalbility; although, I don’t understand why you would take Strider’s Defense for a minuscule recharge on sword skills over Spotter, one of our few group utilities.

@DoogySnowStalker
Both builds are completely viable.
But for the casual Zerk dungeon runs (except for Arah, I use mesmer there) I found Remorseless better. Simply because you are constantly on the move and you can’t deny the power of burst on mobs that won’t live longer than for 2 seconds.

The build you showed is definitely better for bosses that die in 8-15 seconds. For the overall run, it’s less effective (or so I found).

I made a thread about in in the early stages of the changes and I came to the same conclusion that LB>S/A would still be the meta. I can totally agree on that – but the effectiveness of Quick Draw and Remorseless is not to be underestimated in “Hit&Run” groups.

moonstarmac.4603:

I run a LB – S/D – Shout/Survival ranger. I keep seeing threads popping up about people having trouble with their ranger and can only wonder, what exactly are they doing to have this trouble.

My pet can tank a champ like a boss, I can sit back and range it down. But then, I have always enjoyed being a LB sniper, so guess it all goes with personal play style.

You know what is the key difference here?

No offense but its the MMR. You might facing baddies.

This is the same for all players saying that rangers are OP or decent in top tier.

Ranger is a dead fish atm, fun to play that’s about it.

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

Sarahfull.4930:

Thanks but no thanks.

I’m running zerk sword/dagger offhand dagger survival ranger in fractal 50 and I’m doing great.

I do run frost spirit although not spotter. I like my lower cd on sword skills as I love my evades ( yes all of them ).

Sarah

I can understand taking Wilderness Survival for more survivalbility; although, I don’t understand why you would take Strider’s Defense for a minuscule recharge on sword skills over Spotter, one of our few group utilities.

Personal preferance. I find when I am going toe to toe with mossmand and achi, those few seconds really count.

Sarah

Not to derail, but if it is generally known that boon share is as needed (as it seems in the limited target system) how is it not a baseline thing?

Bran.7425:

Not to derail, but if it is generally known that boon share is as needed (as it seems in the limited target system) how is it not a baseline thing?

Because the people who do the balancing for Ranger have no idea what to do with it due to the lack of experience with the class…

Interesting responses the last 24 hours, Tragic Positive.9356 is clueless, but most everyone realizes where rangers rank in the current PVP environment. I spend 90% of my time in spvp, so not finding any build that is really competitive is truly disheartening! Yes, playing a LB ranger at a high level did take a lot of skill, but now most any class will beat you. Playing a survival build will help you last longer but you don’t have enough dps to take anyone down. I really hope we get some love before HOT, ranger is a fun class to play!

You can play a power build without being totally glassy (knight amulet work fine). S/A is better single target damage than the gs.

Rangers are great for single target. Take your target down quick and move to the next. With quick draw I don’t see how you say u don’t have enough damage. As both path of scar and rapid fire can do 8k damage each and you get two of them at least within 10 seconds. Couple this with quickness and its clearly not dps that’s the problem.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

You can play a power build without being totally glassy (knight amulet work fine). S/A is better single target damage than the gs.

Rangers are great for single target. Take your target down quick and move to the next. With quick draw I don’t see how you say u don’t have enough damage. As both path of scar and rapid fire can do 8k damage each and you get two of them at least within 10 seconds. Couple this with quickness and its clearly not dps that’s the problem.

I can assure you that anyone worth their salt will kill a sword/axe ranger in no time.
Sword 1 (yes, even when you disable autoattack) prevents you from dodging in time for many skills, meaning you’ll just sit there and eat it. GS is taken for the combination of burst damage + utility, and it’s good at that.

Pure straight up dps doesn’t work as well as burst damage in pvp, even more so at higher skill levels.

That being said, ranger got nice improvements, and if the bloody bugs get fixed it’s certainly in a better place than before.
Class balance is off at the moment, mesmers currently being the worst offender, might take a while for them to get it right with a few nerfs/buffs.

OP is complaining about not having the damage to kill his target. Knight amulet will give you about 3.4k toughness if memory serves me. Yes at times damage wont help but he was mainly talking about thief and Mesmer which will be the real difference in that fight.

Strictly speaking damage isn’t a problem we have. When passive blocks and retal are common. Being able to dish out 18k damage in 3 1/2 seconds isn’t going to matter your right, but neither is evading everything for the next ten second while not dealing real damage.

We don’t have passive defenses like most of the other classes do. Mesmer can put you down quick but you can do the same to them. It just comes down to who see who first. Mesmer having they advantage since they can stealth.

Building with lots of regen and toughness and vitality at the cost of damge will just cause you to lose heart like OP. While other classes can do just take and make up the damage with passive and semi-passive skill.

I dont understand many of these ranger is done/bad posts. LB/GS you can stun lock many classes and the classes that you cant you have enough to kite them around as your “SUSTAINED DAMAGE” burns them down. From my experience, proper LB/GS play only struggles against three things:
- D/D Ele
- Warrior who can pop rampage effectively and you cant kite
- Reflect mesmers (most mesmers dont run this however as it only counters rangers)

You absolutely need to be skilled to run LB/GS build and you ABSOLUTELY need to be able to use your pets properly and Ranger is one of the few classes that you have to know all of the ins and outs against every class you face or you can get exposed. This is not a face roll sit in LB the whole time pew pew class.

I have been super busy and dont want to put the time into streaming lately, but i am on lots and if you dont believe me i have no problem dueling you. Add me in game and give it a go.

How is 1.5s of stun every 20/25s stun locking?

Padapwn.5924:

I dont understand many of these ranger is done/bad posts. LB/GS you can stun lock many classes and the classes that you cant you have enough to kite them around as your “SUSTAINED DAMAGE” burns them down. From my experience, proper LB/GS play only struggles against three things:
- D/D Ele
- Warrior who can pop rampage effectively and you cant kite
- Reflect mesmers (most mesmers dont run this however as it only counters rangers)

You absolutely need to be skilled to run LB/GS build and you ABSOLUTELY need to be able to use your pets properly and Ranger is one of the few classes that you have to know all of the ins and outs against every class you face or you can get exposed. This is not a face roll sit in LB the whole time pew pew class.

I have been super busy and dont want to put the time into streaming lately, but i am on lots and if you dont believe me i have no problem dueling you. Add me in game and give it a go.

Yea just land 3 stuns in a row on top tier pvp players, it’s so easy , i’m surprised EVERYBODY isn’t doing it by now!

Please…

LB ranger is a free kill for anyone prepared for it. Put the bow down, and pick up a sword and torch. Aragorn never used a bow! I think flesh golems put up a better fight.

If you dont land them.. then they are blowing something.. and if they arent ur bad at playing lb/gs.. if you think lb is a free kill.. minus the builds i listed it wont be a free kill for you.. please enlighten me

Bow Rangers are always free kills, horribly outmatched by the current Meta, easily squashed. Flesh golems puts up better fight. I have never had trouble with dispatching them. They have no counter to stability and gap closers so are useless. Bow ranger = free win.

Archon.6480:

…Aragorn never used a bow!…

Off topic, but yeah, better read that book again mate…

Tragic Positive.9356:

MattyP.6954:

I’m been playing a Power Ranger in PvP and WvWvW roaming (except this week… stupid golems…), and I got a huge buff from the patch.

Now I can remove 8 conditions on demand.

Now my pets blind and taunt in an area of effect when I use their F2.

Huge buffs to my control and survivability, and I couldn’t be happier.

But you won’t explain this to people. They lost 5% dmg in pew pew builds.
<chuckle>

I dont really know where U got those numbers 5% since last I checked it was a bit more then that more like 20% I would like 2 see which build you were runing since U only lost 5% dmg I could learn some from U since like I said I lost more like 20% if not more

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Archon.6480:

…Aragorn never used a bow!…

Off topic, but yeah, better read that book again mate…

+1+1 I never even read the books and even I know the answer to that hint hint xD

Redemer.2601:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Archon.6480:

…Aragorn never used a bow!…

Off topic, but yeah, better read that book again mate…

+1+1 I never even read the books and even I know the answer to that hint hint xD

Um, what? You guys put too much faith in Hollywood. There is no reference to Aragorn using a bow in the books. He only carried a broken sword called Narsil (that eventually gets fixed). Hollywood added the bow.

All joking aside, there are currently too many good counters to bows, so I earnestly believe we are better off sticking mostly with the other weapons, for the time being. I have been experimenting with LB as an alternative in some compositions on Hyrbid builds, when Ranged control is important—as a secondary weapon. It seems to work well like this. The high damage Bow builds have been pretty much squashed by this meta.

I’m not sure if you’re aware (I’m honestly not, I’m using the statement as a literal and not to represent hyperbole) but the ranger has been “dead” in competitive play since pretty much the celestial meta.

Now, that isn’t to say that good builds didn’t exist, and good players didn’t exist, and that sentiment still holds true even right now. But the ranger class isn’t being help back by itself, as a matter of fact, most of the changes are, and will be overwhelmingly positive for the class when the bugs finally get addressed.

The thing is, Ranger doesn’t really bring much to a team right now OUTSIDE of damage, and that will always be the forefront of the problem. Mesmers have insane “slipperiness” with incredible “get out of jail free” cards and can take portal for amazing team plays and moa for shutting down bunker targets and rampage warriors on top of their damage.

There is never a circumstance in this game I could imagine, both then, and now, where you would ever want to take a power based ranger over a mesmer or thief.

Condi ranger on the other hand is strong, but will always have weaker output than other classes, and because of the lack of targeted AoE, the build gets heavily pushed towards sidenodes/1v1s where the other classes can do both small scale fights and larger teamfights with the same build effectively.

Really, our weak utility skill selection is a huge part of the problem, and our biggest competitors, Mesmers and Engineers (don’t really seeing other classes performing within the scope these two do, and while people would also be tempted to cite thief, thief will always have the niche mobility that nothing in the game can match or compete with), overall just have the better tools (although even Engineers are considered pretty bottom barrel tier at the moment, and guess what rangers and engineer share in common? If you guess design dev, you’d be correct).

We are just in desperate need of some cleave/AoE, and the ability to do something other than damage (or damage while bringing suboptimal utilities compared to another class who can bring more optimal options that do more things while doing similar/same/more damage).