Guild Wars 2

Hey guys. I have played Ranger since beta. I have played enough of the other classes to know the extent of what they can do. However, with so much time spent on the Ranger I believe I have tried every build out there. I mean every build. Seriously, I’ve run GS/spirits in PvP before (it was decent).

So besides the fact that spirits suck in PvE for the most part and axe offhand isn’t Ideal. What problems do you have with the ranger? I will help you solve them.

Why do I keep getting kicked from dungeon groups ._.

why does no one wants to play with me, party or invite me to groups and events?

Florgknight.1589:

Why do I keep getting kicked from dungeon groups ._.

Probably because the other rangers they have run with didn’t know what they were doing or were doing something silly like LB with a condition build. I have never been kicked from a dungeon group, I do a significant amount of group dmg and I am one of the last alive most of the time often saving the day.

Guess this goes for nemesis too. Bad rangers are bad and make a bad name for us. Rangers don’t bring a whole lot to the table but kitten the good rangers are good and I don’t think any group would want to give one of those up.

Pets are pretty much ins-ta death on a boss. If they last 15 seconds it a miracle. Pets are as dumb as rocks. They wonder off and aggro everything in the room. Pets are 30% of a rangers DPS and since they are dead most of the time on a boss DPS suffers big time. I could go on but I have a feeling you will try and claim I am wrong, that’s OK you are as they say entitled to your opinion.

Hillaan.6904:

Pets are pretty much ins-ta death on a boss. If they last 15 seconds it a miracle. Pets are as dumb as rocks. They wonder off and aggro everything in the room. Pets are 30% of a rangers DPS and since they are dead most of the time on a boss DPS suffers big time. I could go on but I have a feeling you will try and claim I am wrong, that’s OK you are as they say entitled to your opinion.

1. Use a tankier pet (Insta-death).
2. Use sig of stone? (don’t use sig of stone) (Insta-death).
3. Call your pet off with F3 when boss is winding up. (Insta-death).
4. Either stow pet, put on avoid combat, or use better F3 control and keep your pet from aggroing (No more wondering/aggroing).
5. Use a ranged pet. Devourers are pretty tanky actually (Insta-death).

Worst case scenario: Use a high dmg pet if you KNOW the pet is going to die so you can still hit hard at least for a bit. However, I think proper pet control with F3 is key and would solve the majority of your problems.

Eurantien.4632:

Hey guys. I have played Ranger since beta. I have played enough of the other classes to know the extent of what they can do. However, with so much time spent on the Ranger I believe I have tried every build out there. I mean every build. Seriously, I’ve run GS/spirits in PvP before (it was decent).

So besides the fact that spirits suck in PvE for the most part and axe offhand isn’t Ideal. What problems do you have with the ranger? I will help you solve them.

Warrior brings more dps to dungeon runs and ele/mesmer bring more utility.

Why bring a ranger if you can bring a warrior or mesmer instead? I mean, if you can’t fine one of those a guardian or ele is still better than a ranger.

Even if the ranger goes melee, they still can’t touch the dps of a warrior and are a lot squishier unless they trait enough survival talents and lose even more dps.

Hillaan.6904:

Pets are pretty much ins-ta death on a boss. If they last 15 seconds it a miracle. Pets are as dumb as rocks. They wonder off and aggro everything in the room. Pets are 30% of a rangers DPS and since they are dead most of the time on a boss DPS suffers big time. I could go on but I have a feeling you will try and claim I am wrong, that’s OK you are as they say entitled to your opinion.

Oh please, c’mon. That is not fair to rocks. Rocks have a use.

@ Dahkeus

A power/crit ranger will do more dmg than a mesmer. A condition ranger can do a significant amount of damage as well. The only reason one would bring a mesmer is for TW in my opinion (which is lazy). Ranger with GS/quickness can tank pretty well and with up to 9 seconds of quickness before having to wait 6 seconds for the next recharge is pretty great for a single class. I run zerker and can do a lot of group dmg with LB barrage/GS I also throw in flame trap and entangle for more group dmg. Yet I can still tank for a significant amount of time using the GS evade and quickness and also with aoe weakness from my pet.

I don’t know what ele utilities an ele could bring besides like fiery GS that would really help that much and if you don’t have a DPS quickness ranger then you won’t be getting the most out of the GS anyway.

I would agree that war does more raw dmg. However, it does make the warrior a bit of a 1 trick pony and not as adaptable as the ranger.

Dahkeus.8243:

Eurantien.4632:

Hey guys. I have played Ranger since beta. I have played enough of the other classes to know the extent of what they can do. However, with so much time spent on the Ranger I believe I have tried every build out there. I mean every build. Seriously, I’ve run GS/spirits in PvP before (it was decent).

So besides the fact that spirits suck in PvE for the most part and axe offhand isn’t Ideal. What problems do you have with the ranger? I will help you solve them.

Warrior brings more dps to dungeon runs and ele/mesmer bring more utility.

Why bring a ranger if you can bring a warrior or mesmer instead? I mean, if you can’t fine one of those a guardian or ele is still better than a ranger.

Even if the ranger goes melee, they still can’t touch the dps of a warrior and are a lot squishier unless they trait enough survival talents and lose even more dps.

You can bring group buffs from pets/spirits, regen and condi removal as well as best water field in the game. Easy fire and ice combo fields, sustained ranged damage. Pets can draw aggro as well. Our damage can still be significant, even though it is not the warrior’s. For example, the method my guildmates use to run Arah and beat lupicus is by having usually 2 or 3 rangers maintain damage the whole fight, doing the entire first stage alone. When fighting the final boss of path 3 the rangers kite the npc’s while everyone else focuses on capping. My guild leader never wants to run arah without rangers.

Also note, that I’ve done more PvP than PvE so although I have done a lot of high level dungeons I do not know ALL the possible PvE build that a ranger could run. Although I bet power/precision/toughness would be pretty devastating.

Eurantien.4632:

Also note, that I’ve done more PvP than PvE so although I have done a lot of high level dungeons I do not know ALL the possible PvE build that a ranger could run. Although I bet power/precision/toughness would be pretty devastating.

I want that stat combo so bad XD for other professions too.

@Dahkeus

Jazenn.7526:

You can bring group buffs from pets/spirits, regen and condi removal as well as best water field in the game. Easy fire and ice combo fields, sustained ranged damage. Pets can draw aggro as well. Our damage can still be significant, even though it is not the warrior’s. For example, the method my guildmates use to run Arah and beat lupicus is by having usually 2 or 3 rangers maintain damage the whole fight, doing the entire first stage alone. When fighting the final boss of path 3 the rangers kite the npc’s while everyone else focuses on capping. My guild leader never wants to run arah without rangers.

Why cant rangers wrong a viable power build?

Why is longbow and GS our weakest weapons?

Why do my pets die in seconds if I want a damage pet?

Why do our traits have no Synergy?

Why do ranger pets hit harder than the ranger without being BM?

Why does anet seem to care more about our underwater abilities than land abilities?

Why does my ranger have to give up so much damage for survivability, or so much survivability for damage when other classes dont(except ele)?

Why does my damage drop by insane amounts when pet dies?

Why are traps the only true viable build we have?

Answer these plz, Id love to see how you come about it.

Eurantien.4632:

@ Dahkeus

A power/crit ranger will do more dmg than a mesmer. A condition ranger can do a significant amount of damage as well. The only reason one would bring a mesmer is for TW in my opinion (which is lazy). Ranger with GS/quickness can tank pretty well and with up to 9 seconds of quickness before having to wait 6 seconds for the next recharge is pretty great for a single class. I run zerker and can do a lot of group dmg with LB barrage/GS I also throw in flame trap and entangle for more group dmg. Yet I can still tank for a significant amount of time using the GS evade and quickness and also with aoe weakness from my pet.

I don’t know what ele utilities an ele could bring besides like fiery GS that would really help that much and if you don’t have a DPS quickness ranger then you won’t be getting the most out of the GS anyway.

I would agree that war does more raw dmg. However, it does make the warrior a bit of a 1 trick pony and not as adaptable as the ranger.

- No brings a mesmer for damage. Time Warp, Portal, and Might buffing from Sig of Inspiration are why people bring mesmers.

- A necro or engineer will do better condition damage and will have more uptime on vulnerability, which helps out the group more. A condition ranger just bottlenecks other condition damage in the group by stack capping them.

- A guardian will always be a better tank than a GS ranger, even if there are working GS ranger builds.

- Eles bring boons and stack might, which is something that rangers don’t do much of. They also heal allies better and have ally heals on every weapon available, regardless of their traits or slot skills.

A ranger can get through content, I won’t argue it, but they are never the best choice for any role a group wants to fill. Also, if you start running high level fractals, they become even less effective as their pet dies to agony.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Why cant rangers wrong a viable power build?

Why is longbow and GS our weakest weapons?

Why do my pets die in seconds if I want a damage pet?

Why do our traits have no Synergy?

Why do ranger pets hit harder than the ranger without being BM?

Why does anet seem to care more about our underwater abilities than land abilities?

Why does my ranger have to give up so much damage for survivability, or so much survivability for damage when other classes dont(except ele)?

Answer these plz, Id love to see how you come about it.

I find LB/GS to bet better than trap ranger. I’m rank 42 and run that in paids. I use zerker but I do not trait into marsmanship because full glass cannon does make you too squishy. So to answer your questions LB/GS are our weakest weapons because the ranger community has not fully unlocked the potential yet.

As for your pet, that is the trade off. Higher dmg = lower survivability. That is how the whole game is. However, I’d say better pet management could help a lot. F3 is your friend.

I think a lot of our traits have great synergy. They are no less un-synergetic? than any other profession.

If your pets hit harder than you and you are not BM then you must be using a jaguar and it is only hitting harder than you because you are using a non zerker build.

I don’t talk to Anet.

I love the last one. I don’t think ranger does. If you go tanky healing ranger and use axe/torch and sword/dagger then you can do some significant dmg while bunkering (using shamans)(im sure other weapon combos would work too). As for the dmg with no survivability I have found that as long as I don’t trait fully into skirmishing and marksmanship I can still do significant dmg with my ranger using zerker and have survivability. Ranger also has a lot of good survivability utilites. I like to use QZ for dmg, with sig of renewal and protect me or with LR instead of protect me. Your pet can also help protect you with its F2: Bear weakness, Wolf fear, wolf chill, moa daze, pig KD/forage skill.

If you want me to go more in depth on something let me know.

Oh, and as for the arguments about combo fields, groups don’t need fire or poison combo fields. Those conditions already have a very high uptime as it is and depending on your group composition may never have any downtime. Healing Spring is nice, but it doesn’t offset the greater advantage that other classes have.

Eurantien.4632:

Hillaan.6904:

Pets are pretty much ins-ta death on a boss. If they last 15 seconds it a miracle. Pets are as dumb as rocks. They wonder off and aggro everything in the room. Pets are 30% of a rangers DPS and since they are dead most of the time on a boss DPS suffers big time. I could go on but I have a feeling you will try and claim I am wrong, that’s OK you are as they say entitled to your opinion.

1. Use a tankier pet (Insta-death).
2. Use sig of stone? (don’t use sig of stone) (Insta-death).
3. Call your pet off with F3 when boss is winding up. (Insta-death).
4. Either stow pet, put on avoid combat, or use better F3 control and keep your pet from aggroing (No more wondering/aggroing).
5. Use a ranged pet. Devourers are pretty tanky actually (Insta-death).

Worst case scenario: Use a high dmg pet if you KNOW the pet is going to die so you can still hit hard at least for a bit. However, I think proper pet control with F3 is key and would solve the majority of your problems.

1. I use a bear no more tanky pet out there
2. sig of stone is a waste of space
3. you have to time it perfectly given the delay
4. pet will not stay stowed, F3 has a delay, I always have the pet on passive. the mobs do not care if he is on passive.
5. I will admit I have not tried this one

I have tried a lynx he dies so fast he does almost no damage at all. I did not want to say this but you are what a lot of people call a fanboy. while most people think of it as a bad term I don’t necessarily think of it like that. I am glad you enjoy the class but that dose not mean there are not real problems with it.

@Dahkeus
You ever brought an ele with a ranger in a dungeon that know each other? There is no better might stacking or healing combination in this game. And the dmg from fiery GS that a power/crit ranger can do is unbelievable. If you want I will do a dungeon with you sometime and show you. Also, the number of fields a ranger has + an ele with aura share is amazing as well.

Eurantien.4632:

@Dahkeus
You ever brought an ele with a ranger in a dungeon that know each other? There is no better might stacking or healing combination in this game. And the dmg from fiery GS that a power/crit ranger can do is unbelievable. If you want I will do a dungeon with you sometime and show you. Also, the number of fields a ranger has + an ele with aura share is amazing as well.

My wife plays an ele and I’ve never run a dungeon without her, so I’m familiar with the concept, yea. But you don’t need the ranger to do that.

Ranger fields are redundant with an ele.

Hillaan.6904:

1. I use a bear no more tanky pet out there
2. sig of stone is a waste of space
3. you have to time it perfectly given the delay
4. pet will not stay stowed, F3 has a delay, I always have the pet on passive. the mobs do not care if he is on passive.
5. I will admit I have not tried this one

I have tried a lynx he dies so fast he does almost no damage at all. I did not want to say this but you are what a lot of people call a fanboy. while most people think of it as a bad term I don’t necessarily think of it like that. I am glad you enjoy the class but that dose not mean there are not real problems with it.

The Jaguar would be a better choice as every hit while invis is a crit and will hit for like 2-3k. I have never noticed a delay on F3 (maybe because I spam it because I want my pet to listen). I’m not saying that ranger doesn’t have some problems but the ranger is much more viable than people think imo.

Also, if you’re still unclear on it, this is why people make groups with 4x warrior + 1 mesmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EUhUj1aL0yA

The group can stack 25 might immediately plus fury. If a group like that hits harder content and needs more healing/protective support, they will bring a guardian or ele.

Dahkeus.8243:

Ranger fields are redundant with an ele.

Not with healing spring. However, you are entitled to your opinion. D/D eles don’t have an ice field (I’m pretty sure).

Dahkeus.8243:

Also, if you’re still unclear on it, this is why people make groups with 4x warrior + 1 mesmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EUhUj1aL0yA

The group can stack 25 might immediately plus fury. If a group like that hits harder content and needs more healing/protective support, they will bring a guardian or ele.

Well duh. If I could run this I would lol. This is a way bigger problem. I wouldn’t even take an ele, or guardian, or necro, or engi, or thief, or ranger If I had this option. This has nothing to do with ranger.

A ranger with stone spirit, blue moa, regen wolf or pig, and HS might be better at healing this group than an ele or a guardian.

Though I would rather take an ele or a guardian too as I KNOW they could do it.

Eurantien.4632:

Dahkeus.8243:

Also, if you’re still unclear on it, this is why people make groups with 4x warrior + 1 mesmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EUhUj1aL0yA

The group can stack 25 might immediately plus fury. If a group like that hits harder content and needs more healing/protective support, they will bring a guardian or ele.

Well duh. If I could run this I would lol. This is a way bigger problem. I wouldn’t even take an ele, or guardian, or necro, or engi, or thief, or ranger If I had this option. This has nothing to do with ranger.

Rangers have one frost field and it only comes from a slot skill that deals no damage. Eles do have a water field, even if it’s not on d/d and you don’t need to bring a ranger for that one field alone.

And the reason that this is relevant is that the problem with ranger comes down to this: There’s no role in dungeons that a ranger does better than any other class. Mesmers, guardians and ele do support better. Warriors and even guardians (with the right build) do damage better. Necros and engineers do conditions better. Engineers and Eles do combo fields better.

Again, you can get through content with a ranger, I won’t argue that, but they’re something you settle on, not something you go for when building a group.

@Eurantien.
Im rank 44 and have run everything in pvp, problem with your theory is alot of people have unlocked the potential, not going into MM as a LB ranger is silly, and lowers damage quite a bit, longbow cant be inbetween, its not built for that, you cant be a utility using longbow user.

As for pet, I manage pet incredibly well, problem rangers dont get much more damage for lowering their survivability by so much, going on other classes using the same gear, you notice a huge difference, pets die fast even when you trait for their survivability, when you dont trait for that they die even faster, its not the player, its the game.

Incorrect, our traits are extrmely unsynergized. Half the traits in MM dont make sense, other classes get combined traits such as warriors crack shot. Traps in skirmishing instead of wilderness survival? That makes sense, just moving those traits down would increase our productivity alot, combing some traits, and redoing some would help also. Pet traits being in skirmishing is stupid too. There are a few traits with synergy such as hide in plain sight and shared anguish, stuff like that but very few. I go on warrior, and engineer, and guardian, and thief, ect…and almost all the traits make sense and sync really well with other traits which is why alot of builds were considered op. Marksmanship traitline carries almost all the longbow traits, I get that, but they are very poorly done. Opening strikes kinda sucks, eagle eye is nice but 5% is a crappy buff, piercing arrows is nice but should be combined with quickdraw, that alone would allow us to have piercing arrows and remorseless. Signet of the beastmaster is completely stupid, it should be removed and signets should affect player and pet passively.

No, Im using full zerker glass cannon build, with jag and raven. Jag during stealth does more damage than I do, Raven with his OP f2 does more damage in a single strike than I do, eventually it evens out to be about 50% of my damage, but that doesnt change the fact that pets damage shows up on breakdowns over my damage, which is stupid. Pets should do 10-20% of our damage unless we go BM, and we should be the main source of damage.

Thats my point right there, I dont want to play a condi tank, I want to play a glass cannon archer, you mentioned not going into skirmishing or MM for survivability and using wolves or bears + protect me, that is alot of utility + damage you just gave up, ALOT. Wolf and bear do crappy damage compared to a raven or jag, and not taking skirmishing or MM traits makes you lose on damage stats +traits such as eagle eye, piercing arrow, remorseless, pets prowess, quickdraw, ect… No class has to do that, at all. My engineer is 100nades, pulls off 15k burst in 2 seconds every 30 seconds and has tons of CC, decent healing and an immunity + 3 sec block. My guardian is glass cannon meditations, tons of self healing, tons of damage and combat mobility, little trade off. My warrior is rifle glass cannon, pulls 18-25k damage in seconds with frenzy, has a snare, a great bleed, a knockback thats melee but aoe, and has axe/shield OH for that stupid axe damage + shield cc/survivability, Thief does 14-15k in seconds with stealth(dont play him much anymore) None of them have to give up damage to gain that survivability. The only one who had to give up power traits for self healing was guardian, but he made up for it with crit damage and crit%, ranger cant do that.

Im more than willing to debate but Ive done extensive tests myself, played multitude of classes, and compared and easily ranger is the weakest.

@ Dahkeus. You’ve got me thinking. I really think that support ranger could easily work. Maybe even better than ele or guardian. I will have to try this.

Necros don’t have burning and engi doesn’t have nearly the same amount of aoe conditions ranger has. Although single target is better for engi.

At least rangers are the fastest rezzers lol.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Why cant rangers wrong a viable power build?

Why is longbow and GS our weakest weapons?

Why do my pets die in seconds if I want a damage pet?

Why do our traits have no Synergy?

Why do ranger pets hit harder than the ranger without being BM?

Why does anet seem to care more about our underwater abilities than land abilities?

Why does my ranger have to give up so much damage for survivability, or so much survivability for damage when other classes dont(except ele)?

Why does my damage drop by insane amounts when pet dies?

Why are traps the only true viable build we have?

Answer these plz, Id love to see how you come about it.

Sure you can, just equip the armor for it. I think someone (maybe Chronix) had video of a power build he ran in spvp. Had pretty good damage.

Longbow getting 10k+ damage on channel and 2k on autoattack at long range is not really weak, especially when you factor in permanent +10% damage. Some rangers love longbow, I personally don’t because it isn’t my playstyle, but it is definitely not the weakest. Greatsword is one of our “weaker” weapons damage-wise when looking at autoattack, but it still does pretty damage. Still, the autoattack can get up to 1.5k on crit builds. Maul, Swoop, and Counterattack can all hit above 3k in high damage builds. If you want it to do damage, up your stats. I personally use greatsword defensively though because of it’s utility, or when comboing damage with my pet.

Pets can have as much survivability as a player. The high damage ones can have high burst, but as a logical consequence, low survivability, similar to a GC ranger. They also do not have their own defensive capabilities for the most part (cats and birds). As a result, you must keep them alive via traiting BM, buffing them, controlling them more, or providing cc and combined assault/retreat in a way that makes them effective. The devs obviously don’t think that a pet that can hit 8k in a single strike should be alive the whole fight, having pets die and be on cooldown may be their way of preventing them from being OP, at least in sPvP.

Traits have flaws, but are plenty synergetic. Example, the shortbow is optimal for crit proc, and the trait regarding it’s cooldowns are therefore located in the crit chance line. Fortifying bond, spirits, and protection and regen boon type traits are located in the line that gives boon duration. Crit chance is in the same line as crit damage(really a luxury when looking at other classes without this). Toughness goes with cond. damage, which matches well with armor setups like carrion, rabid, and shaman.

I suspect that pets hit harder because the ones that do are melee, and melee usually gets more damage than ranged. They also hit less times than a player will, so for their damage to count they hit higher. Many complain that rangers can’t hit high. Well if the pet hits high, that is sort of a compensation/supplement. Combined, the damage is nice and at times insanely high.

Underwater? Idk, but every class received underwater overhaul, not just ranger. Maybe underwater was getting underplayed in general, or they care less about the balance there, but this does not really matter imo. I bet if underwater combat did not exist, the same things would have happened patch-wise across all professions. Just be happy for the extra content.

Other classes don’t? Speccing full damage engi, necro, thief, mesmer nets you better survivability than full damage ranger? I can understand heavy armor, but otherwise no. We still have numerous evades, plus protect me and signet of stone. That is potentially 15 seconds of damage mitigation at the least using all that, before your heal. Not really worse off than those other 4 I mentioned, except maybe thief with stealth. On the other side, we can spec full survivability and then STILL spec our pets to do extremely high damage. I think we are better off than many classes in that aspect.

Your damage drops because your pet was doing damage and since you let it die it can no longer do damage. Depending on your spec, it may or not be “insane” damage drop.

Trap is not the only viable build. That is not true at all. It may be popular in sPvP now, but by no means is it our only good build. Just playing the game and encountering other rangers can prove that.

Will chime in more after work…

@OP

The fact that you say our traits have synergy makes me lose all interest in your opinion. I also am confused by your need to point out that you do not talk with anet. No one asked that … why offer it. Makes my conspiracy meter go off.

You are entitled to your opinion but please know they are opinions. HP has even acknowledged our poor utilities and traits.

Spell check …hate this phone. I meant Jon p not hp

Dahkeus.8243:

Eurantien.4632:

Dahkeus.8243:

Also, if you’re still unclear on it, this is why people make groups with 4x warrior + 1 mesmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EUhUj1aL0yA

The group can stack 25 might immediately plus fury. If a group like that hits harder content and needs more healing/protective support, they will bring a guardian or ele.

Well duh. If I could run this I would lol. This is a way bigger problem. I wouldn’t even take an ele, or guardian, or necro, or engi, or thief, or ranger If I had this option. This has nothing to do with ranger.

Rangers have one frost field and it only comes from a slot skill that deals no damage. Eles do have a water field, even if it’s not on d/d and you don’t need to bring a ranger for that one field alone.

And the reason that this is relevant is that the problem with ranger comes down to this: There’s no role in dungeons that a ranger does better than any other class. Mesmers, guardians and ele do support better. Warriors and even guardians (with the right build) do damage better. Necros and engineers do conditions better. Engineers and Eles do combo fields better.

Again, you can get through content with a ranger, I won’t argue that, but they’re something you settle on, not something you go for when building a group.

1. Some of those “better than” comparisons have to be optimized to be “better” and even then are arguable.

2. But the ranger can do it all, being a jack of all trades.

In general, my ranger can compete with most, but there are instances where there is never going to be an opportunity for my ranger to be the equal of any other class.

Biggest example : Subject Alpha Path 2/3. My pet will die. There’s nothing I can do about it. Its that simple. There is no physical way to keep a pet alive during that fight. Devourers hitting from range? Can’t dodge the fire balls. Bears in melee? Can’t dodge the ice/earth AoE’s. Signet of Stone? Slotted and traited, it can only save them from 1 volley. Quick swaps? Doesn’t matter, the pet can’t survive 15 seconds even with liberal use of Healing Spring just to keep them alive.

Its not about smart use of F3. Its not about constant F4 swapping. Its just not possible to keep the pet alive and because of that, I’ve lost 30% of my damage for the fight.

The first thing that they can do for us? Make pets evade on dodge. Its that simple. Not the measily 3 seconds of protection at WS 15. That’s going to do jack-squat when the boss is laying down stacked 10k AoE’s every 8 seconds.

Jazenn.7526:

Dahkeus.8243:

Eurantien.4632:

Dahkeus.8243:

Also, if you’re still unclear on it, this is why people make groups with 4x warrior + 1 mesmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EUhUj1aL0yA

The group can stack 25 might immediately plus fury. If a group like that hits harder content and needs more healing/protective support, they will bring a guardian or ele.

Well duh. If I could run this I would lol. This is a way bigger problem. I wouldn’t even take an ele, or guardian, or necro, or engi, or thief, or ranger If I had this option. This has nothing to do with ranger.

Rangers have one frost field and it only comes from a slot skill that deals no damage. Eles do have a water field, even if it’s not on d/d and you don’t need to bring a ranger for that one field alone.

And the reason that this is relevant is that the problem with ranger comes down to this: There’s no role in dungeons that a ranger does better than any other class. Mesmers, guardians and ele do support better. Warriors and even guardians (with the right build) do damage better. Necros and engineers do conditions better. Engineers and Eles do combo fields better.

Again, you can get through content with a ranger, I won’t argue that, but they’re something you settle on, not something you go for when building a group.

1. Some of those “better than” comparisons have to be optimized to be “better” and even then are arguable.

2. But the ranger can do it all, being a jack of all trades.

1) Umm..yea, no one is arguing that a ranger is worse than a warrior with a terrible build or that they can’t outdps a warrior with a support build.

2) Jack of all trades…master of none. This would be fine if you didn’t have to respec and regear to be able switch to a different trade, but your support will suck in berserker gear and your dps will suck in clerics gear.

@ Dante

So we agree on a few things. Marksmanship sucks. You said it yourself that there is no trait synergy there. I run zerker with skimrisher and WS. Not having MM does lower dmg a bit but I think traiting into WS survival to being able to debunk any point and hold for awhile in a 1 on 2 is a much better option than losing 1k dmg in my rapid fire. Arrow piercing is nice but is the only nice trait in that entire line. 20% wep cooldown + moment of clarity is nice, the spirit trait has nice synergy within itself (too bad spirits aren’t great). I would also say that BM traits SUCK.

As for the pets I use wolf/boar so my pets are not doing a significant amount of my dmg but they are doing a significant amount of CC on my target which allows me to do more dmg. I use protect me often and both of my pets are able to take a good chunk of dmg. With the CC from my LB/GS I can easily roll or shutdown my target so my pet does not die. With GS I can always run too. DPS-survivability LB/GS rivals that of the once OP d/d ele. Wolf also does do a lot of dmg especially against moving targets. I can’t find the forum post right now but some guy did a test on the moving golem and the wolf killed the golem seconds slower than the jaguar and did it faster than raven.

I understand your hesitation to think LB could be a good close quarter weapon but It is. The build I run is highly anti-DPS. Thieves are a joke. HB wars are easy. DPS guardians can be a problem with retal but I can always out run them.

I don’t really know what else to say. I’d say don’t hate it till you try it but you will say you have (even though there is no way you have and still be saying these things).

Engi, thief, and war can all do more burst dmg but not nearly the same amount of sustained dmg that ranger can.

@ Dahkeus. I could easily use zerker, with stone spirit and HS and give a lot of prot and a lot healing without losing much survivability. I could also use good support pets too.

@ Pendelton some traits have synergy. WS and Skirmishing a little. I was a little to hasty in saying that they do have good synergy as MM and BM have no synergy.

Also Dante said something about Anet and water combat > land combat. I was just responding to that.

@ Omega

Ya I agree. Pets are worthless against subject alpha.

Dahkeus.8243:

Also, if you’re still unclear on it, this is why people make groups with 4x warrior + 1 mesmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EUhUj1aL0yA

The group can stack 25 might immediately plus fury. If a group like that hits harder content and needs more healing/protective support, they will bring a guardian or ele.

Wow that is impressive damage. I don’t know if 4 of any other class can do that, I guess that is what the warrior excels at. Damage. However, I think that if you group together any of the same class like that, the results can be suprising. Damage does seem to stand out against NPC and in dungeons, but in wvw or spvp, I think some other professions can really shine when grouped, and even in PvE situations that involve many enemies. For example, 4 necros with constant aoe conditions, perma chill, constant fear, epidemic, and 25 stacks of vulnerability would be insane. 4 mesmers all spamming clones and illusions. Which one is real? 25 stacks of confusion and damage coming in from everywhere, seems like a tough fight. 4 rangers, every step you take is a trap, 25 stacks of bleed plus burn, poison, and chill distributed around. Perma regen and condi removal from all the healings springs. Entangle spam, 4 rampaging rangers with jags and QZ, 4 nature spirits giving 2k aoe regen a second. Seems nice thinking about all of that.

Omega.1473:

In general, my ranger can compete with most, but there are instances where there is never going to be an opportunity for my ranger to be the equal of any other class.

Biggest example : Subject Alpha Path 2/3. My pet will die. There’s nothing I can do about it. Its that simple. There is no physical way to keep a pet alive during that fight. Devourers hitting from range? Can’t dodge the fire balls. Bears in melee? Can’t dodge the ice/earth AoE’s. Signet of Stone? Slotted and traited, it can only save them from 1 volley. Quick swaps? Doesn’t matter, the pet can’t survive 15 seconds even with liberal use of Healing Spring just to keep them alive.

Its not about smart use of F3. Its not about constant F4 swapping. Its just not possible to keep the pet alive and because of that, I’ve lost 30% of my damage for the fight.

The first thing that they can do for us? Make pets evade on dodge. Its that simple. Not the measily 3 seconds of protection at WS 15. That’s going to do jack-squat when the boss is laying down stacked 10k AoE’s every 8 seconds.

True. That is an example of something that is a problem for rangers right now. Similar to fractal agony. Pets die a lot in dungeons, more than any other setting. AoE damage is a problem in PvE against pets. Solutions he listed are suggestions to help you deal with it until it gets addressed. He deals with it the best he can. So do I. Make advantage of when it is alive and try to keep them that way.

@Jazenn.

Show the video then, and Im calling BS. Changing out zerker stats and damage traits lowers your damage significantly and you are still squishy, I literally have no problem against any longbow ranger, ever. By all means tho show me how longbow can do competetive damage and still have survivability on par with other classes. I mean competetive damage, not decent, I want damage on par with every other class.

Dahkeus.8243:

Jazenn.7526:

Dahkeus.8243:

Eurantien.4632:

Dahkeus.8243:

Also, if you’re still unclear on it, this is why people make groups with 4x warrior + 1 mesmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EUhUj1aL0yA

The group can stack 25 might immediately plus fury. If a group like that hits harder content and needs more healing/protective support, they will bring a guardian or ele.

Well duh. If I could run this I would lol. This is a way bigger problem. I wouldn’t even take an ele, or guardian, or necro, or engi, or thief, or ranger If I had this option. This has nothing to do with ranger.

Rangers have one frost field and it only comes from a slot skill that deals no damage. Eles do have a water field, even if it’s not on d/d and you don’t need to bring a ranger for that one field alone.

And the reason that this is relevant is that the problem with ranger comes down to this: There’s no role in dungeons that a ranger does better than any other class. Mesmers, guardians and ele do support better. Warriors and even guardians (with the right build) do damage better. Necros and engineers do conditions better. Engineers and Eles do combo fields better.

Again, you can get through content with a ranger, I won’t argue that, but they’re something you settle on, not something you go for when building a group.

1. Some of those “better than” comparisons have to be optimized to be “better” and even then are arguable.

2. But the ranger can do it all, being a jack of all trades.

1) Umm..yea, no one is arguing that a ranger is worse than a warrior with a terrible build or that they can’t outdps a warrior with a support build.

2) Jack of all trades…master of none. This would be fine if you didn’t have to respec and regear to be able switch to a different trade, but your support will suck in berserker gear and your dps will suck in clerics gear.

Yep. That’s why I shoot for balanced gear and builds. Gives you more utility than going all in to one thing. I am lucky to have 2 armor sets to switch around, and I am working on getting another one, more balanced stat-wise.

@ Dante

I think you meant me. If you could link my a way to make a vid thats free I will do it (i’m not too computer savvy lol). I do not think my ranger LB/GS had dmg on par with every other class. The closest thing to relate it too is like scepter/dagger ele but with more CC and survivability.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

@Jazenn.

Show the video then, and Im calling BS. Changing out zerker stats and damage traits lowers your damage significantly and you are still squishy, I literally have no problem against any longbow ranger, ever. By all means tho show me how longbow can do competetive damage and still have survivability on par with other classes. I mean competetive damage, not decent, I want damage on par with every other class.

I will admit I dont use longbow and I don’t like it. I haven’t found a way to utilize it in a way that I want and be effective. It does the damage though, you only claimed it was weak, I never said it had good survivability, because I don’t think it does. I would probably work best with it using it as a secondary weapon set, switching just to spam certain skills when I get the chance. On another note, the damage from every class is not equal by any means. When full zerker specced, warrior stands out on top imo, with thief up there too. Of the classes left, I believe the ranger has competitive damage. When you factor in survivability and balance it with damage, I already think that the ranger is on par. If it wasn’t this way, no one would lose to rangers. There was a post yesterday night of a test comparing warrior and ranger dps that was interesting too. Check that out.

There are videos in WvW of any class but the Ranger, and Engineer killing 20-50 players with only four of them. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

There are videos in WvW of Thieves fighting 1v20, or 1v30, scoring kills, and staying alive for a long time, sometimes getting away. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

There are videos of Warriors soloing boss mobs groups have issues with. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

The fastest dungeon runs have been done with 4 Warriors, with videos to prove it. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

It’s easy to say you can do something, but there is no proof. If it can be done, and you know this, then provide the proof. The biggest issues that revolve around the Ranger are in WvW, and their lack of utility compared to other classes, on top of the lack of group buffage in WvW, that other classes provide, without giving up much, if anything at all.

Eurantien.4632:

@ Dante

I think you meant me. If you could link my a way to make a vid thats free I will do it (i’m not too computer savvy lol). I do not think my ranger LB/GS had dmg on par with every other class. The closest thing to relate it too is like scepter/dagger ele but with more CC and survivability.

Thats my point, aside from the fact that Ive yet to see a viable longbow ranger in paids or any form of pvp, ranger is the only class who cant go balls out glass cannon, and profit from it. Like I said, every other class can change up a few utilities and gain tons of survivability and self healing without sacrificing damage. Ranger sacrifices damage via pet or traits. Or sacrifices survivability via traits/armor setup/pets. If you try going inbetween with a non condi build, ur crap. Before I mastered my 100nades engi while I was still playing my ranger, I felt evasion tanks were the best 1v1 build in this game, now I murder even the best evasion tanks or trap rangers out there quite easily. However since 100nades is focused on landing burst I have to kite alot against better players but I almost always end with the kill. Rangers need a petless option, and some reworking of longbow while some damage buffing of GS.

jkctmc.8754:

There are videos in WvW of any class but the Ranger, and Engineer killing 20-50 players with only four of them. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

There are videos in WvW of Thieves fighting 1v20, or 1v30, scoring kills, and staying alive for a long time, sometimes getting away. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

There are videos of Warriors soloing boss mobs groups have issues with. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

The fastest dungeon runs have been done with 4 Warriors, with videos to prove it. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

It’s easy to say you can do something, but there is no proof. If it can be done, and you know this, then provide the proof.

Who are you speaking too?

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

jkctmc.8754:

There are videos in WvW of any class but the Ranger, and Engineer killing 20-50 players with only four of them. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

There are videos in WvW of Thieves fighting 1v20, or 1v30, scoring kills, and staying alive for a long time, sometimes getting away. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

There are videos of Warriors soloing boss mobs groups have issues with. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

The fastest dungeon runs have been done with 4 Warriors, with videos to prove it. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

It’s easy to say you can do something, but there is no proof. If it can be done, and you know this, then provide the proof.

Who are you speaking too?

OP, and those who support him like Jazenn.

Jazenn.7526:

Dahkeus.8243:

Also, if you’re still unclear on it, this is why people make groups with 4x warrior + 1 mesmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EUhUj1aL0yA

The group can stack 25 might immediately plus fury. If a group like that hits harder content and needs more healing/protective support, they will bring a guardian or ele.

Wow that is impressive damage. I don’t know if 4 of any other class can do that, I guess that is what the warrior excels at. Damage. However, I think that if you group together any of the same class like that, the results can be suprising. Damage does seem to stand out against NPC and in dungeons, but in wvw or spvp, I think some other professions can really shine when grouped, and even in PvE situations that involve many enemies. For example, 4 necros with constant aoe conditions, perma chill, constant fear, epidemic, and 25 stacks of vulnerability would be insane. 4 mesmers all spamming clones and illusions. Which one is real? 25 stacks of confusion and damage coming in from everywhere, seems like a tough fight. 4 rangers, every step you take is a trap, 25 stacks of bleed plus burn, poison, and chill distributed around. Perma regen and condi removal from all the healings springs. Entangle spam, 4 rampaging rangers with jags and QZ, 4 nature spirits giving 2k aoe regen a second. Seems nice thinking about all of that.

Well, here’s a guardian in the same group setup. Sadly, the profession that is heavily support focused can outdps us as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ac2NGGjjPsU

Even with full berserker gear, a ranger won’t deal this kind of damage largely because the game is designed to favor melee…

…which would be fine if we had a melee build that could dps like this, but the only melee builds we have for PvE pretty much require a serious investment into Wilderness Survival and/or Nature Magic for toughness/vitality.

Moving The Trap Talents in Skirmishing to WS would be a nerf to Trap Builds, as they’d be forced to give up most of their defensive talents for really nothing in return.

Dahkeus.8243:

Jazenn.7526:

Dahkeus.8243:

Also, if you’re still unclear on it, this is why people make groups with 4x warrior + 1 mesmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EUhUj1aL0yA

The group can stack 25 might immediately plus fury. If a group like that hits harder content and needs more healing/protective support, they will bring a guardian or ele.

Wow that is impressive damage. I don’t know if 4 of any other class can do that, I guess that is what the warrior excels at. Damage. However, I think that if you group together any of the same class like that, the results can be suprising. Damage does seem to stand out against NPC and in dungeons, but in wvw or spvp, I think some other professions can really shine when grouped, and even in PvE situations that involve many enemies. For example, 4 necros with constant aoe conditions, perma chill, constant fear, epidemic, and 25 stacks of vulnerability would be insane. 4 mesmers all spamming clones and illusions. Which one is real? 25 stacks of confusion and damage coming in from everywhere, seems like a tough fight. 4 rangers, every step you take is a trap, 25 stacks of bleed plus burn, poison, and chill distributed around. Perma regen and condi removal from all the healings springs. Entangle spam, 4 rampaging rangers with jags and QZ, 4 nature spirits giving 2k aoe regen a second. Seems nice thinking about all of that.

Well, here’s a guardian in the same group setup. Sadly, the profession that is heavily support focused can outdps us as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ac2NGGjjPsU

Even with full berserker gear, a ranger won’t deal this kind of damage largely because the game is designed to favor melee…

…which would be fine if we had a melee build that could dps like this, but the only melee builds we have for PvE pretty much require a serious investment into Wilderness Survival and/or Nature Magic for toughness/vitality.

I will honestly argue that. A feline pet plus damage specced ranger under time warp. Jag stealth, Rao, and Sick ’em. I think a ranger can put out similar to that guardian