Guild Wars 2

Make bird quickning sreech instant cast

and put a 10sec reveal on you target on Sic Em instead of a weak 4 sec.

I know been stealth is gw2 mean been skilled but you must change that.

Shatto.3524:

hmm, i like this changes, but the pet problem really makes me sad… a good change will be ranger get extra stats bonus for the pet he is using, for example:

eagle: 180 precision, 10% critical
canine: 180 healing, 10% boon duration

This is a very nice idea you have, I would like something along these lines to be worked out, since pets in general have so many shortcomings in actual direct combat why not make them give better passive benefits.

Gorwald.6170:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htHRErZM7QM

This, as a reminder we’ve been allready told we gonna have nice changes and see what happened? Nothing, we got even more worse.

And this video was posted on the 16 november 2012 ! After the ébig changes for ranger" we never had…

So you can still listen to promise of Jon, personnaly i’m rerolling engineer who are closer of what i’m thinking about a ranged class…and without a kitten worthless pet to worry about…

Oh and btw, if you want to see a real ranger class and how it should be worked on, i suggest you to test the next module on neverwinter…the archer/ranger is awesome on it…

People who can’t escape from HAVING to label classes as melee or ranged classes have issues. GW2 has handled this right by giving every class a variety of options that are meant to tactically supplement one another.

Oh, and in case it hasn’t been said yet in this thead. The label ‘Ranger’ is equivalent to a warden, not a ranged weapons master.

@ Einlanzer.1627

Quote " People who can’t escape from HAVING to label classes as melee or ranged classes have issues. GW2 has handled this right by giving every class a variety of options that are meant to tactically supplement one another.

Oh, and in case it hasn’t been said yet in this thead. The label ‘Ranger’ is equivalent to a warden, not a ranged weapons master"

Ahh I see, Anets vision of ranger must have been modelled on this guy then

mzt.3270:

@ Einlanzer.1627

Quote " People who can’t escape from HAVING to label classes as melee or ranged classes have issues. GW2 has handled this right by giving every class a variety of options that are meant to tactically supplement one another.

Oh, and in case it hasn’t been said yet in this thead. The label ‘Ranger’ is equivalent to a warden, not a ranged weapons master"

Ahh I see, Anets vision of ranger must have been modelled on this guy then

Nice attempt at sarcasm, but you fail. It was molded on the D&D ranger, like almost every class named ranger, which ultimately leads back to Aragorn in LotR. So yes, it was molded after the wilderness warden archetype.

In Gw1 it appears they were much closer to what they were modeling to then. In Gw2 they modeled it after a BeastMaster. I was never aware of a ranger/warden always having pets by them fighting. Calling on them from time to time, sure, but always? No. There’s a name for that type and it’s BeastMaster.

@ Einlanzer.1627

And what has this to do with the fact that rangers are behind every other class in GW? Are you seriously suggesting its to do with players not fully understanding that its a mixed weapon class. WE know this already, we know every class has a choice of weapons. What people have stated here is that the weapon damage amonst other issues with this class are either broken or not competitive enough in stats to other classes. What you have failed to grasp is this is to do with damage vs survivability which Anet has simply worked out badly.

Sarcastic my reply must have been but it has a very valid point. We all know what a definition of ranger is, however a ranger is also known either primarily used Bows and an Axe and daggers. Folklore is full of such examples, the foremost being Robin Hood, who was mainly an Archer, In the story of William Tell where upon the woodsman was asked to shoot the apple off someones head ( again the Bow). Elven mythology who were known as the Keepers of the Forest primarily used … oh look BOWS. So I dunno, but I don’t think it I who have failed. Rangers are synonymised with the Bow .
And if we were to really split hairs , then I have never in my life heard of any story where a thief uses a bow. Little Bow Thief perhaps ??

DeadlySynz.3471:

I agree with everything you said, you did miss 1 nerf however.. the one that bothered me the most.

They cut barrage damage in half (or possibly more) from what it used to be. For me, it went from doing 1800-2600 damage per hit down to 800-1300. To get those damage numbers, one has to be in full berserker gear which obviously is a disadvantage in itself. This is why I felt the nerf was completely unnecessary, as I’m basically rooting myself for this attack with the possibility of getting killed in 1-3 hits.

I didn’t add it because it wasn’t in the patch notes and I wasn’t doing any WvW at the time to notice a change. But yes it should be on the list and is one of the worst stealth nerfs to date.

I’m not sure the nerf to Natural Vigor is really called for; Warriors have higher natural armor/vitality to supplement survivability (plus they have a signet utility that provides extra Endurance Regen if they feel the need as well as many invulnerability skills that don’t really have a downside to using them) and Thieves have stealth and other escape abilities (i.e. shadow stepping in and out of combat).

Endurance in my opinion is the big survivability mechanic that Rangers utilize and while Anet is potentially helping ranger build diversity with many of their other updates to the ranger proposed for this coming December Patch, nerfing Natural vigor may take away just as many options; taking one step forward and then one step back just puts us back into pidgeon holed traits.

If they nerf Natural Vigor then instead of thinking “for my Wilderness 10 trait should I take Vigorous Renewal, Wilderness Knowledge, or Shared Anguish?” It becomes a lot more skewed toward just using Vigorous Renewal (or forcing you into Skirmishing and/or Beast Mastery for their respective Vigor traits).

Rather than providing us with more build diversity, this will definitely force many players into traits and trait lines that may not even make sense for the weapon sets they use.

Warriors: Armor/Vitality (plus options for endurance regen like rangers)
Thieves: Escape Abilities (stealth, etc.)
Rangers: Evasive mobility (a.k.a. “dodging”)

I ask Anet to please reconsider nerfing Natural Vigor as it is the basic, yet key, survivability tool for Rangers.

Holland.9351:

kitten nic Touch.7960:

Wilderness 5 Natural Vigor. Reduced the increased endurance regeneration from 50% to 25%.

This really ruins it for me. Again a big nerf out of nowhere.

Let me add it to the list:
- endurance regen nerfed from 50% to 25%
- Healing Spring no longer gives vigor each tick and water field duration reduced
- shortbow nerfed from 1200 to 900 range
- damage skills from many pets reduced by 50%
- pet leash range reduced drastically
- “Search & Rescue” can’t revive dead players anymore
- quickness on pet swap moved from Minor Adept to Major Grandmaster (swapped with worthless trait)
- “Guard” no longer works up or down ledges
- “Signet of the Beastmaster” moved from Adept to Grandmaster.

I probably missed some.

Other unsesolved issues:
- Guard is a shout, but has a 1 second cast time
- Nearly all AoE attacks hit 3 targets instead of 5
- Require grandmaster traits to make signets, shouts, traps and spirits useful.
- Require grandmaster trait to have relatively useful condition removal.
- “Sic ’em” gets cancelled if the pet is told to activate another skill or told to change target.
- Signet of Renewal fails if pet is out of range.
- a healing skill (Healing Spring) is the only reliable on-demand condition removal rangers have.
- pets f2 often doesn’t activate or very late.
- sword auto-attack has too many leaps and makes the character feel out of control and prevents dodging.
- shortbow auto-attack bleed requires a flank.
- longbow Barrage too long cooldown.
- longbow requires to spend 50 trait points to get its basic traits (20% cooldown, piercing arrows, 1500 range)
- skirmishing has too many bad traits.

If these were fixed/changed we might actually be getting somewhere with this class.

While this is a very good list, I would suggest that it is missing 4 nerfs that I consider to be the worst of the lot:

1. The Great Sword nerf after bwe1. The damage output of this weapon was destroyed with this nerf, and while in the intervening months was buffed back up some, it still falls short of what it used to be.

2. The spirit nerf after bwe3 which gutted ranger spirit builds. Ever since this nerf spirits have been a mess, and while they have been buffed up some they still need work.

3. The removal of our ability to res our defeated pets, while still balancing the Ranger around the assumption of 100% pet up time.

4. The Short Bow “animation fix” that seriously impacted the weapons damage output.

To me the current state of the ranger is better viewed by what Anet has nerfed over time vs what they have buffed/band aid fixed, and the nerfs in my opinion are more significant.

give the possibility to the ranger to be a anti stealth class, by giving the pet the true signt.

And I dont know but the debuff reveal should add after your stealth is done and when you are in combat not only when you broke the stealth with a attack.

Brega.6920:

Holland.9351:

kitten nic Touch.7960:

Wilderness 5 Natural Vigor. Reduced the increased endurance regeneration from 50% to 25%.

This really ruins it for me. Again a big nerf out of nowhere.

Let me add it to the list:
- endurance regen nerfed from 50% to 25%
- Healing Spring no longer gives vigor each tick and water field duration reduced
- shortbow nerfed from 1200 to 900 range
- damage skills from many pets reduced by 50%
- pet leash range reduced drastically
- “Search & Rescue” can’t revive dead players anymore
- quickness on pet swap moved from Minor Adept to Major Grandmaster (swapped with worthless trait)
- “Guard” no longer works up or down ledges
- “Signet of the Beastmaster” moved from Adept to Grandmaster.

I probably missed some.

Other unsesolved issues:
- Guard is a shout, but has a 1 second cast time
- Nearly all AoE attacks hit 3 targets instead of 5
- Require grandmaster traits to make signets, shouts, traps and spirits useful.
- Require grandmaster trait to have relatively useful condition removal.
- “Sic ’em” gets cancelled if the pet is told to activate another skill or told to change target.
- Signet of Renewal fails if pet is out of range.
- a healing skill (Healing Spring) is the only reliable on-demand condition removal rangers have.
- pets f2 often doesn’t activate or very late.
- sword auto-attack has too many leaps and makes the character feel out of control and prevents dodging.
- shortbow auto-attack bleed requires a flank.
- longbow Barrage too long cooldown.
- longbow requires to spend 50 trait points to get its basic traits (20% cooldown, piercing arrows, 1500 range)
- skirmishing has too many bad traits.

If these were fixed/changed we might actually be getting somewhere with this class.

While this is a very good list, I would suggest that it is missing 4 nerfs that I consider to be the worst of the lot:

1. The Great Sword nerf after bwe1. The damage output of this weapon was destroyed with this nerf, and while in the intervening months was buffed back up some, it still falls short of what it used to be.

2. The spirit nerf after bwe3 which gutted ranger spirit builds. Ever since this nerf spirits have been a mess, and while they have been buffed up some they still need work.

3. The removal of our ability to res our defeated pets, while still balancing the Ranger around the assumption of 100% pet up time.

4. The Short Bow “animation fix” that seriously impacted the weapons damage output.

To me the current state of the ranger is better viewed by what Anet has nerfed over time vs what they have buffed/band aid fixed, and the nerfs in my opinion are more significant.

This really illustrates the reason I get so bemused whenever we get even decent buffs to skills/traits. We’re a class that barely functions as is and then they consistently nerf us with no offset like we are some unholy juggernaut of pvp that must be stopped at all costs while giving warriors stuff like dogged march and healing sig simply because they cried and cried about how they can’t be amazing at 100% of the game until the devs caved and gave in.

I’m still waiting for some decent ranged aoe on the class that doesn’t rely on condition damage to have any effect. The only long range skill we have is barrage and it deals such laughable damage I mostly just use it for the cripple and to get tags for bags in wvw.

The new “Enlargement”: make Health threshold 50% OR add the “Movement speed increase: 50%” to “signet of the wild” and the invesment of 50 skill points will be worth it.
The logic is simple: you will want your stability and dps when you are in a good position to attack, while in 25% you will want to run away, heal etc… if you will add the 50% run speed it will help also to run away so it works fine with 25% Health threshold.
If its without the 50% run speed we will want it at Health threshold 50% so we could use it as an offensive ability.
Thank you.

lower the swap pet to 15sec that will help for the survivality of the pet. Pet need more health in wvw. Pet is our mechanic, give him some love.

Eagle Eye (20 point trait in markmanship) make the boost for the shortbow too.

Add the remove bleed on the sword, you know, the one you ninja remove or add a trait that add the ability on the sword. Please remove the “jump system” on the #1 sword, replace it by the shadowstep, you give trap and preparation(oh I mean venom) to the thief so ranger can have shadowstep right?
The F2 of the drake, the famous breath, make the pet follow the target while he do his ability. Because 99% of time (obviously in pvp) he miss…

Hey devs! Jon! hope you guys read this.

Making signets affect both ranger and pet for default! this will open more build variety, and so ranger wont have to use 30 trait points in marksman in order to get the active effects… and adding stat bonus for the kind of pet you are using.

Shatto.3524:

Hey devs! Jon! hope you guys read this.

Making signets affect both ranger and pet for default! this will open more build variety, and so ranger wont have to use 30 trait points in marksman in order to get the active effects… and adding stat bonus for the kind of pet you are using.

Yeah we forgot signet.

Greatsword damage needs a serious buff. I play a “power” Ranger tank and I currently have 2958 power but I’m only averaging 437 dmg per swing (based on skill facts). What?!
My guardian’s mace which has less base damage and his 2606 power is hitting for an average of 641 dmg per swing.
Pet’s aren’t the great equalizer here as they are unreliable.
EDIT: “attack” not “power”, thx Soildier.3607

Pets hit more often when their target is stationary-
which does NOT happen too often (if the ranger melees a mob,
the pet’s target is likely stationary.)
So, ANET doesn’t want rangers with ranged weaps-you must melee
for your pet to work. If not, that bit of your DPS factored into pets becomes useless.

Hunky Munkey.1430:

Greatsword damage needs a serious buff. I play a “power” Ranger tank and I currently have 2958 power but I’m only averaging 437 dmg per swing (based on skill facts). What?!
My guardian’s mace which has less base damage and his 2606 power is hitting for an average of 641 dmg per swing.
Pet’s aren’t the great equalizer here as they are unreliable.

No, you have 2958 attack, not power. I play a greatsword power ranger aswell, and I have about 2.7k power with consumables and each of my greatswords auto tooltip is about 610 damage.

And I think that the greatsword auto-attack really needs a buff. I think we’re the only class where the greatsword has one of the weakest auto’s, damage wise. Not only that but there is a huge delay before and after power stab, making the entire chain take about 2 and a half seconds.

Soilder.3607:

And I think that the greatsword auto-attack really needs a buff. I think we’re the only class where the greatsword has one of the weakest auto’s, damage wise. Not only that but there is a huge delay before and after power stab, making the entire chain take about 2 and a half seconds.

I feel the damage isn’t terrible for a chain that includes a 1sec dodge, but ya, chain needs that after-cast delay severely diminished or gotten rid of all together. A faster attack rate would counter the low damage and make up for the fact that virtually all the power of the weapon is loaded onto Maul.

I don’t get anet’s after-cast lust. It’s like there isn’t a single attack skill in the game that has an accurate timer tool tip because of all these hidden delays. The bear would actually be pretty good if it really attacked every .5 seconds instead of 1+ seconds.

This might have been addressed already but as players are getting stronger (ascended weapons and soon to be armor) our pets are staying the same. Pets scaling to their master would do a world of wonders.

Swoop would be cool if it worked like a forward motion version of Withdraw. (evade+chill/cripple/immobilize clear). Especially considering the ranger lacks any comparison to dogged march despite being the at-one-with-nature-medium-armor class.

Evade on auto attack “or” swoop?

Indoles.1467:

My personal preview of what these changes would cause in a PvP perspective:
Long Range Shot. Increased the damage at 500 range by 20%.
Long Range Shot. Increased the damage at 500-1000 range by 15%.
A well played player may be able to use longbow to some degree of effectiveness now. Mainly due to the 20% buff at the middle damage interval.

Marksmanship V – Predator’s Instinct. Increased the threshold from 25% to 50%. Increased the Cripple Duration from 2s to 10s. Increased the cooldown from 15s to 30s.
Conceptually good, but practically you will rarely ever see more than 5s of that cripple affect a player, much less a good player. Still, it may see some use now.

Marksmanship VI – Beastmaster’s Bond. Decreased the cooldown from 90s to 60s.
Better, but I doubt it will see much use still considering the poor up time and requirement for it to occur.

Skirmishing XII – Moment of Clarity. Stun Duration increased from 50% to 100%.
Hmm. Very hard to say how much this will affect the ranger. It will surely help those that bring this trait, but picking this trait up means 30 deep into a line that is pretty poor and we will still need to go 30 deep into wilderness survival for the condition removal.

Wilderness 5 Natural Vigor. Reduced the increased endurance regeneration from 50% to 25%.
A blow to the passive endurance regenertion no doubt. I’ll have to trait back into vigor for sure if I want to maintain my dodges.

Wilderness XII – Bark Skin Increased the damage reduction from 30% to 50%.
Fairly worthless. A ranger needs empathetic bond to stand a chance in almost any fight these days.

Nature Magic IX – Two Handed Training. Added the following functionality to this trait. Greatsword and Spear attacks have a chance to grant Fury on hit. 50% chance. 3s Fury. 10s cooldown.
Very interesting. I’m not sure. I see the benefits, but the rng makes this remind me of glacial heart. When you need it most, it seems to never occur. Then again, it is an added bonus to the trait that was never bad.

Nature Magic X – Enlargement. This trait now uses Signet of the Wild to trigger. This reduces the cooldown to 60 seconds and allow it to interact with the Signet of the Beastmaster and Signet Mastery traits.
Potentially a life saver. But has limited uses due to reactive bonus. Requires 50 trait points to have it affect you, which means you can’t bring empathetic bond. In other words, I would never use it in the current state of the game and the ranger profession.

Nature Magic VII – Nature’s Vengeance. Moved to Grandmaster Tier.
Nature Magic XI – Spirits Unbound. Moved to Master Tier.
An excellent change. I always felt that Nature’s Vengeance was very powerful and Spirits unbound was needed earlier. I haven’t considered the available builds for those willing to place 10 trait points elsewhere now.

Sun Spirit. Reduced the passive burning from 3s to 2s.
Storm Spirit. Reduced the damage from the Call Lightning skill by 33%
Really hurts the spirits to a point that I consider near worthless. Players will notice a severe lack in damage output with a spirit build now (which was needed, but I feel this is a bit harsh).

Wow, excellent point by point review. And I agree with all of them, especially the spirit damage nerf. Spirits are much more easily killed now in PvP, so the burning damage isn’t an all-the-time given.

oiseau.6481:

Gorwald.6170:

Oh and btw, if you want to see a real ranger class and how it should be worked on, i suggest you to test the next module on neverwinter…the archer/ranger is awesome on it…

Archer is very different from ranger you know…
Ranger means more synergy with nature than bow-master…

Archer/Ranger on Neverwinter is on the nature spot more than GW2 one…

He have regen buffs, roots with entangle, nature buffs for friends (boar skin who reduce damage, fox buff who evade attacks, eagle buffs who enhance damage) and you can specialize in close combat/ranged attack/buffs for groups

In fact all we want in ranger GW2…and we don’t have

Ryan.9387:

I think the simplest solution to your problem is this,

Don’t play Ranger.

I think the simplest explanation to what is happening right now.

Oh yes sir, a ranger with a bow. That’s how ANet sees the ranger and describes the ranger. A Master of the bow, and as long as we are not masters of the bow, why should we be forced to be masters of the Beasts? That’s not logical. I really feel the need to play the bows, because that’s what ANet describes as best for me, and I really want to use my pets, but I can’t because my pets are instant dead and my bows are useles. The problem is, I have put time money and effort into the ranger, because I believed in ANet and their description. Now I have to realize that they cheated on me. I guess that ANet has a step by step plan to erase the ranger from the game. The ranger being already useless in pve dungeons world boss fights and WvWvW, now will become useless in pvp to after the spirit nerv, and after that they will step by step erase all of the ranged abilities of the ranger and reinvent the ranger as a warrior whit a instant dying pett. Thank you ANet. I was always intending to play a ranger as a mele because your artwork was so unmissunderstandable right?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Ranger_02_concept_art.jpg

Again, SPvP will end up ruining rangers in PvE and WvW . So sad

Chokolata.1870:

Again, SPvP will end up ruining rangers in PvE and WvW . So sad

I still don’t understand WHY they’re balancing around SPvP. At most 10% of the playerbase touches it, and it only has one game mode (Capture), which makes it near impossible for a balance patch that won’t adversely effect WvW and PvE. Wouldn’t it make more sense to balance around WvW, or even just 2 way split? For god’s sake, every patch for sPvP breaks a build in other content.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Chokolata.1870:

Again, SPvP will end up ruining rangers in PvE and WvW . So sad

I still don’t understand WHY they’re balancing around SPvP. At most 10% of the playerbase touches it, and it only has one game mode (Capture), which makes it near impossible for a balance patch that won’t adversely effect WvW and PvE. Wouldn’t it make more sense to balance around WvW, or even just 2 way split? For god’s sake, every patch for sPvP breaks a build in other content.

I think i remember Anet saying pre-release that sPvP and PvE will be balanced places while WvW will be more unbalanced and stuff..Thats why sPvP armor has no stats, thats why it has certain Amulets and jewels…Balancing WvW is imposible, all you playing WvW shouldnt at all ask for balance…….
Its a joke asking to balance a 20v20 fight, or balance the Ranger in breaking doors..

WvW guys have the 50% skill of a spvp, you cant push builds as much as spvpers do..

I dont say that its not fun in some way, you can still go and break doors,kill guards,take towers and sometimes have a nice uninterupted 1v1 or 5v5 before the zergs avalance comes..But balance in WvW?
Its a joke

I really dont know how to explain how I feel at the moment.

Anet devs dont realize the emotional connection one make’s with their character. I love my ranger, that toon is basically my alter ego… but then this happens:

I joined a group for fractals 48 yesterday and the instance owner said “sho ranger, sho!” and kicked me out immediately. It didn’t matter that I was experienced in way higher fractals, or that I know how to play the class, is just that ranger’s are not “guardians”

Does all the people who say “rangers are fine” and “L2P” think that all the ranger issues are part of a mass hallucination from most ranger players? do they even main a ranger at all? I have been humiliated while playing my favorite class in this game. GW2 is, to me, by far the most disappointing game I have ever played, and at the same time one of the greatest games because of it’s expansive PVE world. I love the game, and yet why does it hurt my favorite class so much?

Anet, anet, anet anet, please…… put our shoes and see what it is to play a ranger.

I hope I am not out of place because I just came back to the game after leaving it in the second month of release (though I did play a little in between and read the forums often). My main of course, is a Ranger. I did log in a few times in the last 10 months but honestly I didnt put much time in the game. Here is my experience with the Ranger, which was my 1st class choice because they seemed interesting… boy was I wrong.

Big Problem #1 – He is NOT the best physical range class. Period. End of story. Warriors are much better due to all their other abilities. Remember that to be effective from range, its not just about bow damage, its all about the abilities to keep distance and stay alive. Which brings me to #2

Big Problem #2 – Back when I used to PVP, I noted that his survivability is probably the worst of any class in the game (I stopped playing him and rolled a guardian then got bored and quit) . Reason is that every class has abilities to close distance very fast and no one is afraid that we will kill them via burst so they all just pile right on in without fear because they either A) had a lot more burst or had crazy escapes… we were the butt end of every PvP joke back then because we were basically free kills for everyone.

Last is not a Ranger specific issue but rather all round issue. Ive been playing MMO’s from the release EQ and I can tell you right now that the two biggest mistakes companies make to ruin a game are to min/max based on a fringe minority of loud players. Basically Raiders and PvP’ers. Never listen to them because despite their loudness, THEY ARE THE MINORITY. The great majority of people are casual gamers who want to get away and relax (note this does not mean they want easy, not by a long shot, I hate easy which is why I hate Neverwinter).

You should always always always plan around normal people and help them have fun. I really dont mind if you want to nerf things in PvP for ranger or whoever because I can always play an alt, but the point here is that to solve widely known issues rather than fix min/max problems for elitists. After reading a lot of the forum today and yesterday, it seems to me that GW2 is starting to cater to the loud and obnoxious rather than the normal gamer. As it was, Ranger was simply not fun to play in PvP for any casual gamer due to class imbalances. I probably will still avoid the ranger even after the changes because it doesnt really solve the issue of getting steamrolled, in fact, people will now try to steamroll the ranger even faster whereas before people generally laughed and ignored us until they got annoyed. Thats all I have to say about that.

Otherwise, after trying 3 different MMO’s this last month, I want to say that GW2 is still the best of the bunch. Please keep up the good work.

Dardamaniac.1295:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Chokolata.1870:

Again, SPvP will end up ruining rangers in PvE and WvW . So sad

I still don’t understand WHY they’re balancing around SPvP. At most 10% of the playerbase touches it, and it only has one game mode (Capture), which makes it near impossible for a balance patch that won’t adversely effect WvW and PvE. Wouldn’t it make more sense to balance around WvW, or even just 2 way split? For god’s sake, every patch for sPvP breaks a build in other content.

I think i remember Anet saying pre-release that sPvP and PvE will be balanced places while WvW will be more unbalanced and stuff..Thats why sPvP armor has no stats, thats why it has certain Amulets and jewels…Balancing WvW is imposible, all you playing WvW shouldnt at all ask for balance…….
Its a joke asking to balance a 20v20 fight, or balance the Ranger in breaking doors..

WvW guys have the 50% skill of a spvp, you cant push builds as much as spvpers do..

I dont say that its not fun in some way, you can still go and break doors,kill guards,take towers and sometimes have a nice uninterupted 1v1 or 5v5 before the zergs avalance comes..But balance in WvW?
Its a joke

Point well made. Still better balance patches than sPvP though.

Aden Celeste.3650:

I really dont know how to explain how I feel at the moment.

Anet devs dont realize the emotional connection one make’s with their character. I love my ranger, that toon is basically my alter ego… but then this happens:

I joined a group for fractals 48 yesterday and the instance owner said “sho ranger, sho!” and kicked me out immediately. It didn’t matter that I was experienced in way higher fractals, or that I know how to play the class, is just that ranger’s are not “guardians”

Does all the people who say “rangers are fine” and “L2P” think that all the ranger issues are part of a mass hallucination from most ranger players? do they even main a ranger at all? I have been humiliated while playing my favorite class in this game. GW2 is, to me, by far the most disappointing game I have ever played, and at the same time one of the greatest games because of it’s expansive PVE world. I love the game, and yet why does it hurt my favorite class so much?

Anet, anet, anet anet, please…… put our shoes and see what it is to play a ranger.

100% agree with this.

Mark.5348:

Aden Celeste.3650:

I really dont know how to explain how I feel at the moment.

Anet devs dont realize the emotional connection one make’s with their character. I love my ranger, that toon is basically my alter ego… but then this happens:

I joined a group for fractals 48 yesterday and the instance owner said “sho ranger, sho!” and kicked me out immediately. It didn’t matter that I was experienced in way higher fractals, or that I know how to play the class, is just that ranger’s are not “guardians”

Does all the people who say “rangers are fine” and “L2P” think that all the ranger issues are part of a mass hallucination from most ranger players? do they even main a ranger at all? I have been humiliated while playing my favorite class in this game. GW2 is, to me, by far the most disappointing game I have ever played, and at the same time one of the greatest games because of it’s expansive PVE world. I love the game, and yet why does it hurt my favorite class so much?

Anet, anet, anet anet, please…… put our shoes and see what it is to play a ranger.

100% agree with this.

As do i completely.

I do not get the hype with rangers this patch, LB gets a small boost its needed since conception, Spirits move but are weaker damage (nerf) and still die as quickly.. and another nasty endurance nerf..

Some Might bonuses and traits that may help bunkers, honestly nothing here screams awesome to me.. Still stuck with broken pet mechanics, no short bow, sword or axe anything..

Honestly i’ll stick with my Rift Ranger its a lot more fun, and i can remove my pets whenever it suits me.

the biggest pile of doo doo i have read is that SPvPers are more skilled then the rest of us . Some of the most skilled players i have seen in the game have been WvW roamers . Why ? WvW lets you use everything and lets you push your class through combat , juking , terrain, cliffs , positioning , trolling and whatnot . Not to mention the different stat combos , foods , baiting into guards . Basicly it simulates not only combat but strategy and tactics very well . Cant kill a guy dirrectly 1v1? NP , lure him to a cliff and knock his kitten down .

sheesh , WvW is THE MOST COMPETITIVE PART OF THE GAME

This is a super long thread, but in case it wasn’t mentioned yet… The trait that gives stats to your pet up to 25 stacks when you kill a mob, I think its masters bond or some such, can we get that buff to stay on the pet until it dies? Right now you lose the buff when you go in water and the pet switches. It makes traveling in Orr or any place with deep water you have to cross to get to places a pain.

Chokolata.1870:

sheesh , WvW is THE MOST COMPETITIVE PART OF THE GAME

Farming Zergtraitet players, PvE skilled exploration guys or running and running to look for an easy kill should be competive?
The chance to meet another fair and wellplayed 1vs1 player in WvsW (and ending the fight without 1 running away or others are disturbing u) is about 1:99999.

If they´ll make another map for GvG, WvsW will be not more compteive then Champfarming. Publiczergs are skillless like most of their commanders. And most good guilds are making their own stuff.
Forget it to balance WvsW, forget it.

Skirmishing XII – Moment of Clarity. Stun Duration increased from 50% to 100%.

The skills used to offset this are terrible, getting stun skills to hit on ranger is bleh.

Wilderness 5 Natural Vigor. Reduced the increased endurance regeneration from 50% to 25%.

W.T.F. Seriously. Anet just goes lower and lower. Beating a horses skeleton into the
ground was not enough.

Wilderness XII – Bark Skin Increased the damage reduction from 30% to 50%.

………..this is what you compensate us with for the abysmal stuff above???

Nature Magic I – Circle of Life. Cleared up the text of this trait to clearly identify that it happens when downed, not defeated.

No one uses this useless trait. Waste of time. NEXT.

Nature Magic IX – Two Handed Training. Added the following functionality to this trait. Greatsword and Spear attacks have a chance to grant Fury on hit. 50% chance. 3s Fury. 10s cooldown.

I dont use greatswords anywho.

Nature Magic X – Enlargement. This trait now uses Signet of the Wild to trigger. This reduces the cooldown to 60 seconds and allow it to interact with the Signet of the Beastmaster and Signet Mastery traits.

Why do we have to work so hard just for this?

Nature Magic XI – Spirits Unbound. Moved to Master Tier.

Spirits should be able to move on there own, without traits.

Sun Spirit. Reduced the passive burning from 3s to 2s.

Stomp on spirit builds more plox.

Storm Spirit. Reduced the damage from the Call Lightning skill by 33%

More spirit stomp.

Rangers if you all cant see how much a joke Anet is with this is…….

Chokolata.1870:

the biggest pile of doo doo i have read is that SPvPers are more skilled then the rest of us . Some of the most skilled players i have seen in the game have been WvW roamers . Why ? WvW lets you use everything and lets you push your class through combat , juking , terrain, cliffs , positioning , trolling and whatnot . Not to mention the different stat combos , foods , baiting into guards . Basicly it simulates not only combat but strategy and tactics very well . Cant kill a guy dirrectly 1v1? NP , lure him to a cliff and knock his kitten down .

sheesh , WvW is THE MOST COMPETITIVE PART OF THE GAME

Choko im afraid its true dude..Luring someone and throwing him down from a cliff is trolling, not strategic.Also having these stats combinations is OP, in spvp you have to sacrifise some things to gain other…And thats why you need more skill to be effective.Combined with the foods you gain stats of a god..In spvp you cant go more than 50-60% crit dmg.In WvW you can go easily to 70% with a zerker gear…That leaves room for many other options in defensive traitlines.Until a zerg avalance falls upon you, and then you are nothing at all….

Traits that should NOT require combat mode:

1. Spotter
2. Companion’s Defense

Others I’m not 100% sure about:

1. Compassion Training
2. Concentration Training
3. Expertise Training
4. Pet’s Prowess
5. Malicious Training
6. Agility Training

Rangers, please confirm if you know these traits need combat mode and if I missed any others.

A nice change will be for pvp Greatswords 4 not trigger the secondary effect when hitted by enemy pet-minion-phantasm-illusion etc etc

Dardamaniac.1295:

A nice change will be for pvp Greatswords 4 not trigger the secondary effect when hitted by enemy pet-minion-phantasm-illusion etc etc

Or better, make counterkick an evade itself. And usable while moving…

I don’t know where this myth that SPVP players are talented has come from considering the SPvP meta seems to be ‘go on forums and complain about all classes that aren’t yours, doubly so if class has pets’. Though they are very skilled at that I guess.

Levetty.1279:

I don’t know where this myth that SPVP players are talented has come from considering the SPvP meta seems to be ‘go on forums and complain about all classes that aren’t yours, doubly so if class has pets’. Though they are very skilled at that I guess.

PvP players tend to be better than PvE players because if you kitten up in PvP, even just a tiny little bit like missing your cripple, it can be the difference between victory and defeat so PvPers tend to be a little better at the game as a whole.

Granted, this is only for competitive PvP players that are doing tournies regularly and are in it to win it, a hot join hero is gonna be about as good as your average zergling, and then there’s also some REALLY good PvE players too and etc.

Just by and large most PvPers tend to be better than most PvErs, but again there’s A LOT of different factors that play into it so don’t worry about it too much (like there being significantly less PvPers than PvE players).

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

I don’t know where this myth that SPVP players are talented has come from considering the SPvP meta seems to be ‘go on forums and complain about all classes that aren’t yours, doubly so if class has pets’. Though they are very skilled at that I guess.

PvP players tend to be better than PvE players because if you kitten up in PvP, even just a tiny little bit like missing your cripple, it can be the difference between victory and defeat so PvPers tend to be a little better at the game as a whole.

Granted, this is only for competitive PvP players that are doing tournies regularly and are in it to win it, a hot join hero is gonna be about as good as your average zergling, and then there’s also some REALLY good PvE players too and etc.

Just by and large most PvPers tend to be better than most PvErs, but again there’s A LOT of different factors that play into it so don’t worry about it too much (like there being significantly less PvPers than PvE players).

People take SPvP seriously? LOL

I have been a competitive RTS player for a long time , after that i did MOBA-s . Quite honestly , its quite distressing what passes for pro players in GW2 .

Levetty.1279:

I don’t know where this myth that SPVP players are talented has come from considering the SPvP meta seems to be ‘go on forums and complain about all classes that aren’t yours, doubly so if class has pets’. Though they are very skilled at that I guess.

Please, have my babies <3

Okay, so being on both sides of the games content, I’ve usually always stayed out of these ridiculous *SPvP versus WvW" argument because they are silly.

Fact is, both of them are completely different types of game modes that both require skill, albeit, different types of skill in certain scenarios. In WvW, you’re ability to 1v1 outside of roaming means nothing. It’s all about group play and coordination, and arguably more so than PvP because it is truthfully harder to coordinate 20 people than it is 5. It isn’t that individual skill isn’t valuable, because it is, but it has to be taken into consideration that the larger the group of opponents you face is, the less your ability to duel somebody matters, and the more your ability to support your team and accomplish certain tactics are.

But, that in no way devalues SPvP. Because of smaller numbers, you are much more likely to have to duel, or be focused down by a group of attacks. Simply put, you have to be skilled enough to be able to 1v1 anybody that isn’t a direct hard counter to your build, unless you are a point bunker guardian, who is more about point holding and team supporting than they are about killing things.

Isn’t it obvious that both take skill by now? They both have leaderboards after all. One shows which world is top tier, and one shows which players are top tier. Commonly, you’ll see top tier players in SPvP who are part of top tier guilds, like Super and VoTF.

But ultimately, it’s obvious that the idea that balancing only around SPvP came from the idea that balancing around 5v5 would just translate into 20v20 etc etc. Obviously it isn’t the case because nobody considered that “it takes x guardians to apply perma boons and x warriors to apply perma stuns” versus how little classes can already hard counter the plethora of boons and stuns that can be thrown around in small scale fights already, let alone humungous ones.

The problem is that the issue has been realized too late, and they can’t split every single skill in the entire game (like they had to with guild wars 1) at this point.

Also, neither WvW nor SPvP is “esports” or even being close to “esports” worthy. Esports needs to be able to spectate individual players to watch them make clutch plays over a fair objective that highlights that a winning team is more skilled than a losing team. WvW has too many players, has too much screen clutter, has too much going on in large scale fights, and doesn’t have a fun to watch objective, especially when people think GvG is just massive Team Deathmatch (go watch guild wars 1 gvg for an idea on what esports looks like).

At the same time, SPvP is boring. Conquest is a terrible competitive gametype that snowballs too easily, there’s still too much junk on a screen even in 5v5s, and overall the whole gametype is too rewarding to people who are just really good in standing in a circle. Not to mention the tactical value of having to go “gee, my team has this node. What now? Uhhh, move to next node” is next to zero.

Honestly, watch Search and Destroy in CoD (I’m using a very current game for this, I could say Counter Strike, or my personal favorite, Halo 2 CTF and King of the Hill). There is an easy to understand game flow, obvious big play moments, and lots of tactical value. It doesn’t take a genius to play, which means it doesn’t take a genius to understand, which appeals to a casual audience, and there isn’t so much passive crap going on that you can’t understand what proc’d what or how or why.

Somebody else can compare it to LoL, it’s a game I could care less about, the point is, it doesn’t matter from what perspective or what game mode; this game is a long ways away from being seriously competitive.

People always have to call each other out for no reason, just because they play different game modes than each other. Chill. It isn’t the game modes fault that the balance isn’t right, it’s the balances fault for not having a stern direction and just being a mishmash of a bunch of different concepts that never push balance far enough in a discernible direction to actually make an impact on how the game plays.

sPvP is like checkers.
WvW is like Tic Tac Toe.

Neither that complicated.

When 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5 arenas come out we’ll see what chess is like.

jcbroe.4329:

Okay, so being on both sides of the games content, I’ve usually always stayed out of these ridiculous *SPvP versus WvW" argument because they are silly.

INSERT AMAZING POST OF TRUTH HERE
(Cut due to length, otherwise would quote entirely)

Totally and 100% agree. You, sir, are one of the few voices of reason I’ve seen weigh WvW vs PvP.

The game should not be balanced around either. Neither require more skill (I will admit a lot of commanders are HORRIBLE at WvW, especially having moved from SoR to IoJ I can see it and it saddens me how different it is). ANet needs to recognize that this is an RPG and by far NOT eSport material. It’s great that they tried, but they really need to end the gimmick and stop pretending. Classes should be evaluated based on overall effectiveness and build paths. Nobody’s forcing anyone into sPvP or WvW or PvE. Ultimately in order to achieve balance, discrepancies need to exist in certain areas within class build options and class choices. Additionally, ANet should examine how many people partake in sPvP/WvW/PvE respectively, and calculate how to balance the game based on the number of people who play in what ways. If there is an overwhelming number of people playing PvE, balancing should be made according to this, while examining the metagames of the other game modes to see how the changes would affect them. If nothing changes, then it’s a win-win.