Guild Wars 2

RyuDragnier.9476:

Pedra, the two of your guilds may need to change acronyms to avoid this confusion in the future.

Trust me. We wish we knew how to do that. Is there a way our GL is unaware of (short of deleting the guild and starting over)?

Pedra.4381:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Pedra, the two of your guilds may need to change acronyms to avoid this confusion in the future.

Trust me. We wish we knew how to do that. Is there a way our GL is unaware of (short of deleting the guild and starting over)?

From what I’m seeing, sadly no. I would probably have your guildmaster ask an admin to see if it’s possible without deleting the guild.

Ah, I found video of the GvG with you guys. There any other video because it looks like you guys got rocked continuously. That warrior recording didn’t even get close to having trouble.

Holy moly! 13k views! WHAAAAAT! You guys rock.

Sebrent.3625:

For anyone who is curious, check out Pedra’s posts.

Lots of complaining. That’s the sum of it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/Pedra-4381/showposts

Sebrent, all you have to do to stop my “complaints” concerning the Ranger are to factually invalidate them. I’m certain you are up to the task.

I’ll wait patiently.

Anyone know when this month’s patch comes out?

Chopps.5047:

Pendleton.6385:

Anyone know when this month’s patch comes out?

April 26th as far as I know. I am so excited. If there’s nothing for rangers it’s going to be a MASSIVE letdown for a large part of the community. ANET must deliver.

I’m looking forward to it as well. However, I’m trying to keep my expectations low.

the patch should be on the 30th with the conclusion to the Flame and Frost series as it has been with every major patch to date

Pendleton.6385:

Chopps.5047:

Pendleton.6385:

Anyone know when this month’s patch comes out?

April 26th as far as I know. I am so excited. If there’s nothing for rangers it’s going to be a MASSIVE letdown for a large part of the community. ANET must deliver.

I’m looking forward to it as well. However, I’m trying to keep my expectations low.

Probably a good call. Really, it’s not that bad.

@Chopps.

Lets be fair to them here. They have been giving us tiny morsels. That GS buff last patch is pretty nice.

They’ve still yet to address the BIG issues though. My expectation is gonna be just that: little improvements which are nice, but still leaving the big elephants in the room unaddressed.

I think i’m the only ranger that goes with the tactic of:

Cast Muddy Terrain on the people on the floor, Leap from the wall and cast another Muddy Terrain from Soften the Fall, Throw down a Poison trap and/or Entangle, dive back into the keep via Evade spamming trixyness enjoy the large sum of bags presented to me as the high damage people pounce on those immobilized and poisoned kittens like a dog on heat.

Durzlla.6295:

I think i’m the only ranger that goes with the tactic of:

Cast Muddy Terrain on the people on the floor, Leap from the wall and cast another Muddy Terrain from Soften the Fall, Throw down a Poison trap and/or Entangle, dive back into the keep via Evade spamming trixyness enjoy the large sum of bags presented to me as the high damage people pounce on those immobilized and poisoned kittens like a dog on heat.

That is a lovely combo, Durz :-) I’ll have to actually use the reduced falling damage … never thought to before this.

14,000 views on a topic about 8 days old. Incredible. You guys rock.

Buffs for Rangers to be practical in PvE is a fairly straightforward notion the developers thus far have stubbornly resisted; pet-less ranger options. Ideally each pet, while stowed would grant passive buffs to the Ranger, could be swapped while stowed with the F4 as normal, and would grant the ranger an F2 skill based on creature type. Let’s say you dont want that idiot pet AI agroing half the dungeon moving to your target. This option let’s you just stow it and get say a Precision buff for the Owl, or a Power buff for the Polar Bear, and so on with some kicker boon/condition that goes off on every so often like the spirit mechanic. Each pet would grant you the use of an F2 skill associated to the animal identical to the skill a thief would obtain by using the Steal mechanic on that pet. Same cool downs for all these features, and the same triggers for usage would apply, thus preserving existing game balance and compensating for Rangers who are forced to stow their pet in areas as to prevent the pet AI from over aggro.

But I’m certain this idea, like the many petless option ideas that have been floating around since before the BWE’s will be dismissed if even considered at all. Thankfully in the meantime dungeon tokens are account bound and I’ll just keep running dungeons with my Warrior to gear my Ranger.

Obscure One.4357:

Buffs for Rangers to be practical in PvE is a fairly straightforward notion the developers thus far have stubbornly resisted; pet-less ranger options. Ideally each pet, while stowed would grant passive buffs to the Ranger, could be swapped while stowed with the F4 as normal, and would grant the ranger an F2 skill based on creature type. Let’s say you dont want that idiot pet AI agroing half the dungeon moving to your target. This option let’s you just stow it and get say a Precision buff for the Owl, or a Power buff for the Polar Bear, and so on with some kicker boon/condition that goes off on every so often like the spirit mechanic. Each pet would grant you the use of an F2 skill associated to the animal identical to the skill a thief would obtain by using the Steal mechanic on that pet. Same cool downs for all these features, and the same triggers for usage would apply, thus preserving existing game balance and compensating for Rangers who are forced to stow their pet in areas as to prevent the pet AI from over aggro.

That would be the most easy and logical solution. Unfortunately doing that they would be admitting their failure with pets which is something that any self respecting dev wouldn’t do.
Instead they have been on ignore mode about pet issues and singing doodaa while their playbase keeps hoping for better tomorrow that might never come for 7 months now.

Obscure, this whole “Rangers should have petless options” is a very tired argument similar to the one people used to make about Mesmers and their clones and phantasms. Those are working fine now except for a few known bugs.

Similarly, Ranger pets aren’t going to change to where you don’t have your class mechanic and they will be tweaked until they are in a good spot.

There is no reason to bring this argument up when it has been said by actual developers that it is not an option.

Additionally, when you have to “stow your pet to avoid aggro”, it doesn’t matter what stat bonuses you are getting because you are avoiding combat. It makes little, if any, sense to complain about this. We can stow our pets when avoiding aggro and they pop out once we enter combat.

One thing I’d love to have is my pet to come to my location after I drop off a wall/cliff without me having to put pet swap on cooldown. Often when I drop off a wall during a siege, my pet and I come under heavy fire. This often results in me needing to swap out my pet before it dies… but it’s on cooldown because I was forced to pet swap to get a pet by my side after jumping off a wall.

To me, this is like telling a warrior he has to swap from his current weapon set to the other one and then swap back to it 10s later before he can use the original weapon set … just because he wanted to jump off a wall to enter the fight. It’s silly that that is how it currently works with Ranger pets.

Sebrent, I agree it’s an extremely tired argument, and the fact that it is compounds the frustration as the remedy to lower effectiveness in PvE is an previously addressed issue that directly correlates to required use of an AI that is to much of a liability. The concern isn’t no aggro vs aggro, but aggro vs over aggro, and for all the player skill you can muster that pet AI may very well ruin the dungeon run with one round about path taken to a target. The fact that it’s a tired argument doesn’t remove the overwhelming validity of the argument, regardless of the stubborn opposition to it. Only to a closed-mind is reason perceived to be futile.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Longtomsilver.8031:

Your arguments seems a little bit helpless.
Traps to defend keep are useless, low range (even if you trait it), low damage, long cd, not any stopping power.

Compare the tools rangers have with the tools of any other profession you want, rangers will allways have the short end in this comparison. (siege)

That’s the reason i prefer a new weapon (staff) with all the little tools the ranger lack.

PS:
No problem with retaliation using Barrage?
One Guardian with retaliation means 12 × 300 = 3600 damage to the barrage using ranger. If the guardian used the shout on his teammates, you can multiply this with 5.

PPS:
I’m playing 7 different lvl 80 professions in WvWvW, maybe this is some backup.

Combine Flame Trap, Viper’s Nest, and Frost Trap, and you can make somebody on a ram helpless and force them to disengage. If you’re defending a keep, you are not going to be able to wipe enemies by yourself…you use the skills to keep them from the Ram as long as possible so backup can arrive. And no, never been killed by retaliation, and I rarely see it.

The fact is I’m not sure how you guys have not been killed by retal in my server you can’t even go near the edge because all the AoE the enemy is dropping on it and, if im correct IoJ (Isle’s of Janthir) is a tier 6. Not to say its not true for you guy’s on your server but I in no way can hold of a keep or tower long enough trying to poke the enemy off the gate.

If you don’t want a pet…dare I say play warrior?

On another note, the thought that it’s easier to “give ranger a passive buff when pet is stowed” is an interesting notion. I don’t buy it. Now they have to balance ranger for both when pet is stowed and active. That sounds like twice as much work to me, as an engineer.

They should rename the ranger into DRUID . Problem solved

@Obcure One: I’d be careful with throwing around “closed mind” comments as your opposition could say the same about you since you are disagreeing with their logic as well ;-)

I have never had my pet take a circuitous route that resulted in more aggro. If I’m jumping on/off paths, I stow my pet. If I can’t stow it, I swap when I’m done. The latter is the one issue I have as it forces me to waste a cooldown,

If your pet is aggroing additional enemies in dungeons, perhaps you should look at what it is that you’re doing that is causing the pet’s AI to behave thusly.

Chopps.5047:

If you don’t want a pet…dare I say play warrior?

On another note, the thought that it’s easier to “give ranger a passive buff when pet is stowed” is an interesting notion. I don’t buy it. Now they have to balance ranger for both when pet is stowed and active. That sounds like twice as much work to me, as an engineer.

I actually do play a Warrior whom not only out performs rangers in dungeons and PvE but also regularly rips them apart in WvW, sPvP being the only place they pose a real threat. That is a point I heeded back before launch and I found everything I wanted without anything I didn’t; don’t like the pet, roll a Warrior. That’s however skirting around the elephant in the room: why play a Ranger at all? The Necromancer has better condition and durability potential. The Warrior has better burst damage and sits on par with Rangers for conditions while boasting a superior armor class. The Theif has vastly stronger bursts as well, with identical condition damage potential, and superior mobility. The reason to play a Ranger must be due to the fact that the pet evens this playing field, yet it is cited time and time again to be a hindrance. The balance for a pet-less and pet option should always favor having a pet out vice not having it out, but if I can stow that pet and swap it for a quickness proc. while it passively grants a power or precision boost it gives my ranger the ability to burst on par with my Warrior or my Engineer. Or if it grants a Toughness or Healing Power boost it could make the difference between dropping under a burst, and living long enough to cool down my heal again. That being said my concept isn’t a matter of pet ranger vs non-pet ranger, but options that grant the ranger a tactical choice between having it out as normal or stowing it for a buff and situationaly useful alternate F2 skill. Stowed or Active should depend on which is more advantageous, not a matter of sacrificing effectiveness, which is what it is now.

Sebrent.3625:

@Obcure One: I’d be careful with throwing around “closed mind” comments as your opposition could say the same about you since you are disagreeing with their logic as well ;-)

I have never had my pet take a circuitous route that resulted in more aggro. If I’m jumping on/off paths, I stow my pet. If I can’t stow it, I swap when I’m done. The latter is the one issue I have as it forces me to waste a cooldown,

If your pet is aggroing additional enemies in dungeons, perhaps you should look at what it is that you’re doing that is causing the pet’s AI to behave thusly.

Agreed. My statement is however not exemplifying resistance to the ideas of others but being inclusive of them. Balancing the ranger pet is a massive undertaking as if it is even slightly to strong the class meta will be forced to focus on it to be effective, and if even slightly to weak you have folks ignoring it for more optimal build focuses. The perfect balance between the two is a near impossibly due to the massive variety of Ranger playstyles. Thus, an option to stow the pet as a integral part of build strategy and situational tactics, and not the optional nerf button it is now. Pet and Petless options should work in tandem just as any other class mechanic.

Edit: Here’s an example of implementation, for clarification of what I’m talking about:

Example pets:
Owl: Stowed grants +70 Precision, 20% chance to cause Chill on hit (20 sec. cd), and F2 becomes Ice Shard Stab.
White Moa: Stowed grants +10% boon duration, 20% chance to gain swiftness on hit (10 sec. cd), and F2 becomes Throw Feathers.

Mechanics:
-F2 skill can only be used once per pet. Only refreshes when the pet is made active and stowed again, or when swapped out and returned to.
-F4 press swaps pet, press and hold stows/activates pet.
-Cooldowns associated to swapping pets is also applied to stowing them. Both use the same cool down time on F4.

A ranger that dies to a warrior is simply a worse player than the one playing the warrior. It’s as simple as that. Warriors are so easy to kite and their damage is “bursty” and hence weak against the massive amounts of evasion the Ranger has.

As far as your ideas for gaining bonuses for not having a pet out, that would be like the Mesmer gaining bonuses for not having out illusions when, in fact, their traits work the opposite way. Mesmers have trouble with their illusions dying in large fights as well, but you don’t see them griping about it. That community has adapted.

As far as balancing the ranger being a large undertaking (your words), making it an option to fight without the pet but with different bonuses just further complicates this. Now, not only do they have to make rangers changes that are balanced with respect to the myriad of pet choices available to Rangers but they also have to balance them with respect to the ranger stowing those pets in exchange for buffs.

As far as pet and petless options working in tandem “just as any other class mechanic”, you are again, incorrect. Engineer does not have a choice of which toolbelt skills go with which skills. Mesmer gains no bonuses for having less illusions. Thief gains no benefits from not using steal.

Sure, some classes have traits that give them bonuses for not using their class mechanic (for example, warrior has traits for +dmg/crit chance/hp_regen from adrenaline), but it’s not every class. Necromancer only has one +dmg trait that works like this with Life Force. Guardian isn’t gaining a bonus so much as making choices of burst support or sustained support.

Lastly, stowing is currently not a nerf button. See what your pet does when you stow it and start combat as opposed to have it out and start combat. It provides another level of control. Would I like more control over my pet? You bet! The more control the better (to an extent, of course).

Obscure One.4357:

Chopps.5047:

If you don’t want a pet…dare I say play warrior?

On another note, the thought that it’s easier to “give ranger a passive buff when pet is stowed” is an interesting notion. I don’t buy it. Now they have to balance ranger for both when pet is stowed and active. That sounds like twice as much work to me, as an engineer.

I actually do play a Warrior whom not only out performs rangers in dungeons and PvE but also regularly rips them apart in WvW, sPvP being the only place they pose a real threat.

You have no idea how hard I’m laughing right now. Any good ranger will rip through you without many problems, regardless of whether it’s sPvP or WvW.

Sebrent.3625:

A ranger that dies to a warrior is simply a worse player than the one playing the warrior. It’s as simple as that. Warriors are so easy to kite and their damage is “bursty” and hence weak against the massive amounts of evasion the Ranger has…

This is the type of inaccuracy that results in my routine defeating of Rangers. Warrior doesn’t require skill to be effective and frequently far better Ranger players are beaten by incredibly basic Warrior builds. The Hundred Blades frenzy following a stun set up being the most absurdly common, with Kill Shot frenzy slightly less common. When it comes to my personal experience, a Ranger cannot kite my range traited Longbow, nor the bountiful bleed stacks that I build up on them as often as I connect (which each tick for between 100 to 130 depending on my sigil and might stacks), nor apply enough direct damage pressure to put me on the defensive, and lacks the ability to survive long in melee with multiple immobilizes, bleeds, and burst damage. From my personal experience the sustained damage produced by SB/LB Rangers is mostly geared for sPvP capture point pressure and a threat to the light armored (my Engineer and Elementalist especially struggle with Rangers) and glass cannon targets with the largest burst I can recall at a bit over 7k. Simply put my Warrior is just as lethal at 1200 range as he is in melee (if not even more so), and doesn’t sacrifice any durability or melee capability to do so. Coupled with multiple condition removals and a +50% endurance regenerating Signet (which also removes all conditions), permanent swiftness boon, he is effectively a Ranger without a pet with more armor and health, vastly superior burst damage, and near identical sustained damage (as per my ranger longbow vs warrior longbow tests when optimized for direct damage, the Ranger is a marginal advantage at a average of 533.33 more dmg over 10 seconds).

The Mesmer is a vastly different circumstance, in which the core mechanic is fully integral to the class. Hence those like myself who hated the mechanic abandoned the class community for something else. Our varied opinions of the class have not changed. The Pet however, is not nearly as integral to the ranger as clones are to a Mesmer. If it were, I wouldn’t be digging into the old wound of a petless option.

A stowed pet passive is complicated as opposed to which less complicated concept? The labor of designing a balanced, more intelligent, more responsive, and more controlled AI? IMO passives while stowed would be less difficult from both a development and balance standpoint. These lines are already written and need only be adapted to the Ranger.

Your comparisons are dissimilar class mechanics. The ranger pet is more akin to the Guardians virtues, passively effective with a triggerable effect. Though your interpretation of the tandem comment is incorrect. All class mechanics, including the Ranger pet, function in tandem with their existing elements. The addition of a petless option if implemented should not exist outside of/apart from/in leiu of/or in the place of the existing mechanic, I.E. would be an integral element to present mechanics, not parallel to them.

To your last point I couldn’t agree more. The control of the pet is a clear point of contention, and if it were vastly more developed, I would have no leg to stand on at all in terms of a petless option. This however is an exceedingly challenging proposition, as to much complexity may dominate the meta of the class and thus become a pet management game turning a Ranger instead into a Pokemon master. Hence my opinion to add a passive system, that adds functionality without compounding the complexity of the already difficult to master class.

You have no idea how hard I’m laughing right now. Any good ranger will rip through you without many problems, regardless of whether it’s sPvP or WvW.

Maybe on your tier in WvW, but never in tier 1 and 2 where getting ripped apart by a Ranger is something you are relentlessly mocked for. Every Ranger has to be “good” just to function but many a mediocre Warrior gives them a run for their money, much less the “good” ones. To be a threatening Ranger you can be nothing shy of a great player, otherwise your just another loot bag. The tragedy is if that level of skill were applied to a Warrior you’d be incredible, and the irony is a Warrior will never require that from you to kill all those “good” little Rangers that I owe a fair amount if my WvW armor to.

sPvP is an entirely different story, where rangers can control large areas with persistent damage, AoE cripples, and knockbacks to disrupt contesting enemies. The incredible terrain advantages that can be gained by a Ranger in sPvP grant the class a unique ability to shine that are not made available to it in WvW.

• Warrior knockdown, frenzy, hundred blades combo
  • stunbreaker and you’re out
  • simply evade/block the knockdown
  • use the pet to CC the warrior (unless he popped balanced stance)

• Kill Shot
  • Evade/Block
  • Interrupt

• Longbow bleeds
  • For 15 seconds of every 30 seconds, remove those conditions.
  • Use pet as shield against projectiles
  • Use plethora of regens, condition removals, etc.
  • Dodge the shot.

I doubt your testing of the longbows took into account the pet’s damage nor the additional capabilities of the two classes … but I could be wrong. Please feel free to submit your data (note: please don’t just print numbers. video evidence is best).

When it comes to implementing pet stow buffs versus pet AI, you’re disregarding the fact that since having the pet is still an option, the improved AI is still necessary. Your stow is not a replacement for improving pet AI, it’s additional, needless work.

The Ranger having a pet is not making them a pokemon master. They pick their pets before combat just like others pick their weapons. The pets become a part of the build. No one accuses the Minion Necro or Elementalist with their 1-2 elemental glyphs of being Pokemon masters and they have less control over those.

Now, when it comes to you comparing sPvP and WvW … controlling areas is just as important in WvW. If you have a location with siege, you want to control it so your siege doesn’t get destroyed. If you encounter an enemy at a choke point, you want to control the fight so they are in the choke point instead of you or so that they can’t then outmaneuver you.

You are making some sweeping generalization and assumptions (some of which are incorrect, as noted above) and ignoring the fact that you are doing so.

To be honesnt, obscure one, I have never fought a solid ranger in wvw and I play T1 every day so the fact that you beat them all the time really doesn’t mean a lot. I beat SoR and BG rangers every single day. I honestly have not come across one that put up any kind of challenge. Not that you guys aren’t out there, just that, well, you are few and far between. And I think that’s because many players insist on unning glass cannon builds that blow up in the slightest breeze.

Anyways, 15,000 views! Holy molten alliance batman!

Chopps.5047:

To be honesnt, obscure one, I have never fought a solid ranger in wvw and I play T1 every day

Transfer to Tier 1, become good. Got it.

Nilgoow.1037:

Chopps.5047:

To be honesnt, obscure one, I have never fought a solid ranger in wvw and I play T1 every day

Transfer to Tier 1, become good. Got it.

Point taken!

Chopps.5047:

To be honesnt, obscure one, I have never fought a solid ranger in wvw and I play T1 every day so the fact that you beat them all the time really doesn’t mean a lot. I beat SoR and BG rangers every single day. I honestly have not come across one that put up any kind of challenge. Not that you guys aren’t out there, just that, well, you are few and far between. And I think that’s because many players insist on unning glass cannon builds that blow up in the slightest breeze.

Anyways, 15,000 views! Holy molten alliance batman!

I don’t think tier one has very good skirmishes. The zergs are too dominant, it’s much harder to get meaningful small ops going. Too often you will have a zerg (from either side) run by and crush every dual on the map (or there is a constant trickle of players roaming around that a 1 v 1 turns into a 1 v 5 very quickly). In lower tiers a lot of the fights on the borderlands are between smaller groups and roaming is a lot more viable.

The biggest difference between T1 and other tiers? 24-hour presence.

There are some good strategies there, but nothing beats your server going mostly dark while your opponent still has queues for all borderlands.

I don’t know why people think just because they are on a T1 server that that makes them one of the best at their class or have a more valid opinion. For all the rest of us know, you could not even participate in WvW or do so and not really have any impact.

Sebrent.3625:

• Warrior knockdown, frenzy, hundred blades combo
  • stunbreaker and you’re out
  • simply evade/block the knockdown
  • use the pet to CC the warrior (unless he popped balanced stance)

• Kill Shot
  • Evade/Block
  • Interrupt

• Longbow bleeds
  • For 15 seconds of every 30 seconds, remove those conditions.
  • Use pet as shield against projectiles
  • Use plethora of regens, condition removals, etc.
  • Dodge the shot.

I doubt your testing of the longbows took into account the pet’s damage nor the additional capabilities of the two classes … but I could be wrong. Please feel free to submit your data (note: please don’t just print numbers. video evidence is best).

When it comes to implementing pet stow buffs versus pet AI, you’re disregarding the fact that since having the pet is still an option, the improved AI is still necessary. Your stow is not a replacement for improving pet AI, it’s additional, needless work.

The Ranger having a pet is not making them a pokemon master. They pick their pets before combat just like others pick their weapons. The pets become a part of the build. No one accuses the Minion Necro or Elementalist with their 1-2 elemental glyphs of being Pokemon masters and they have less control over those.

Now, when it comes to you comparing sPvP and WvW … controlling areas is just as important in WvW. If you have a location with siege, you want to control it so your siege doesn’t get destroyed. If you encounter an enemy at a choke point, you want to control the fight so they are in the choke point instead of you or so that they can’t then outmaneuver you.

You are making some sweeping generalization and assumptions (some of which are incorrect, as noted above) and ignoring the fact that you are doing so.

you seem to be an exceptional and knowledgeable player sebrent. i would love to see you lead the ranger community by example and create a series of educational ranger videos in wvw, spvp tournaments and dungeons. please help guide the misguided!

edit- unedited gameplay videos would be best so we can see how all things unfold. also, perhaps you could set up a stream of your live gameplay sessions for all of us study and learn from.

@ObscureOne

“Maybe on your tier in WvW, but never in tier 1 and 2 where getting ripped apart by a Ranger is something you are relentlessly mocked for”

I play a ranger on tier 2. I love hearing about this attitude, though I’ve never experienced myself. I believe that those who have this attitude probably mostly roll with zergs and rarely roam in small groups/solo which would allow them to see what a good ranger can accomplish.

Bredin.5368:

@ObscureOne

“Maybe on your tier in WvW, but never in tier 1 and 2 where getting ripped apart by a Ranger is something you are relentlessly mocked for”

I play a ranger on tier 2. I love hearing about this attitude, though I’ve never experienced myself. I believe that those who have this attitude probably mostly roll with zergs and rarely roam in small groups/solo which would allow them to see what a good ranger can accomplish.

lol i play T2 atm, and at the look of it TC is going to move into T1 for a week and make me sad because as said above, roaming in small groups becomes significantly harder and less effective =(.

Oh well, i can always hope we will fall back into T2 so i can range on my ranger and still be able to ZvZ on my Ele (nothing makes me smile more than seeing the damage numbers from a Glyph of Elemental Powered Meteor Shower + Ice Storm xD)

@Sebrent
It is not my intent to derail this thread into a joust of theoretical circumstance. My comments are made purely from personal experience. To suggest that the ability for a target to evade or block is a foreign concept that would simply nullify the burst of a Warrior is again as misguided as your thoughts on the ability to kite said Warrior. On that note, positioning your pet between yourself and a longbow Warrior will only result in both you and the pet being immobilized and gaining 3 stacks of bleed. Pin Down punches straight on through, and I personally like when a Ranger does this as it makes it easier for my Warrior to spam Fury, and takes the pet out of the fight for the duration of the immobilize. You actually want to swap to a ranged pet and keep it out of AoE radius with yourself to build enough pressure to put that Warrior on the defensive with as many attacks you can throw at it in as little time as possible, I.E. burst.

@Nilgoow, Chopps, Shiren, Swagger, Bredin, etc.
As for all the WvW and tier related comments, the low tiers are low tiers not on account of lack of skill, but lack of optimizing for the meta of that game mode. WvW is a game of having superior numbers, coverage, and response time. Rangers in low tiers do not need to make build choices that must factor in population maxed zerg combat, which love it or hate it is the optimal meta for the game mode. Hence the rangers in the top tiers are building to be useful to a zerg and be able to respond quickly to hot spots as per being optimal. If you don’t build to keep up with the meta, your just another loot bag for the enemy. The side effect is Rangers that cannot compete with my Warrior in a straight fight, and pets being of little to no use in larger fights. Hence why a player beaten by a Ranger in high tier WvW is a freak occurrence for which one is laughed at.

In low tier play I doubt the meta is even relevant to the players who are making whatever build they want regardless of how effective it’d be against 100 enemy players, many of whom are just as good if not better in understanding the metagame. Again the difference between tiers is not a matter of skill, it is a matter of adherence both collectively and individually to the meta of that particular game mode. Perhaps in low tier WvW builds resemble sPvP builds, but not up here in zerg city were killing one enemy in a 1v1 is worthless if it can’t translate to a 100v100.

Edit: @Sebrent
my longbow tests were done in sPvP, with no major traits slotted, and only points in the power line. I used both a steady longbow and a sPvP longbow (no sigils) and excluded any critical hits from the results of three tests for each the steady and standard longbows and took an average, subtracted the values from each other and came up with 533.333… which was in favor of the Ranger over 10 seconds. I used neither classes mechanic (burst skill, or pets) to influence these results, as anyone attempting to establish a basis for comparison between the two weapons should. Feel free to try this yourself if you don’t trust my results.

@Obscure One:
You talk about two things in your post … how a build doesn’t matter if it can’t translate from 1v1 to 100v100. And then how Ranger does against warrior 1v1. That shouldn’t matter if the Ranger is doing fine in the 100v100, eh?

Also, last I checked, pin down doesn’t pierce and there is no trait for Warrior longbow shots to pierce. I can’t seem to find a video quickly confirming or denying this though. Are you aware of one?

I agree that the point is for the Ranger to keep the Warrior on the defensive. This isn’t hard with the plethora of cripples, chills, and immobilizes the Ranger has on very short cooldowns. This coupled with an innate +50% endurance regen and built-in evasion on many weapons makes it easy to avoid to Bull’s Charge, Bola’s, etc.. Additionally, most Rangers take Lightning Reflexes as it not only handles breaking the stun but also does damage, evades backwards, and gives vigor. A wonderful counter to the Bull’s Charge.

Kill Shot is so trivial to avoid that I don’t know why we’re discussing it. Kill Shot is deadly when it’s a zerg fight and you don’t are unlikely to see the warrior and realize they are targeting you with it.

Sigh, this sugarcoating of all the issues the ranger has is starting to become more irratating than the good old complaining.

Sebrent.3625:

@Obscure One:
You talk about two things in your post … how a build doesn’t matter if it can’t translate from 1v1 to 100v100. And then how Ranger does against warrior 1v1. That shouldn’t matter if the Ranger is doing fine in the 100v100, eh?

Flawed logic. My Warrior sacrifices nothing to rain hate onto large areas, my Ranger does, and it’s at the cost of being more effective against single targets.

Also, last I checked, pin down doesn’t pierce and there is no trait for Warrior longbow shots to pierce. I can’t seem to find a video quickly confirming or denying this though. Are you aware of one?

Really now? As you clearly seem to have a plethora of experience kiting Warriors to their demise the only explanation must apparently be that NONE of the longbow warriors in your tier use the primary trait in building to use one:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stronger_Bowstrings

I agree that the point is for the Ranger to keep the Warrior on the defensive. This isn’t hard with the plethora of cripples, chills, and immobilizes the Ranger has on very short cooldowns. This coupled with an innate +50% endurance regen and built-in evasion on many weapons makes it easy to avoid to Bull’s Charge, Bola’s, etc.. Additionally, most Rangers take Lightning Reflexes as it not only handles breaking the stun but also does damage, evades backwards, and gives vigor. A wonderful counter to the Bull’s Charge.

Kill Shot is so trivial to avoid that I don’t know why we’re discussing it. Kill Shot is deadly when it’s a zerg fight and you don’t are unlikely to see the warrior and realize they are targeting you with it.

It doesn’t require a great deal of intelligence to burn out a Rangers evasion and stun break before dropping the burst. It’s actually mentioned very often in sPvP videos that you want to apply pressure to the target first to get them to do just that before going into the burst. Kill Shot is also not only incredibly relevant, but also hard to avoid under quickness. I have personally hit in excess of 9k damage with it, and have heard it can hit for upwards of 13k though never confirmed it myself. Picking up on the shortened animation in the middle of combat while trying to monitor cool downs pay attention to pet position & health as well as your own, and manage the evasion, blocks, and conditions you’re so apt to assume Rangers can do seamlessly is much more of a challenge than your putting on. I would know having been on both the giving and receiving end of the situation, burning out the evades and blocks on the pressure alone can end a Ranger and its pet in a single shot, and some Warriors can get very creative in figuring out how to wear me down for it, which I have in turn adopted to use myself.

Obscure One.4357:

Sebrent.3625:

Also, last I checked, pin down doesn’t pierce and there is no trait for Warrior longbow shots to pierce. I can’t seem to find a video quickly confirming or denying this though. Are you aware of one?

Really now? As you clearly seem to have a plethora of experience kiting Warriors to their demise the only explanation must apparently be that NONE of the longbow warriors in your tier use the primary trait in building to use one:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stronger_Bowstrings

I’m confused here. I followed the link and it does not say anything about warrior longbow shots piercing.

Sebrent.3625:

The biggest difference between T1 and other tiers? 24-hour presence.

There are some good strategies there, but nothing beats your server going mostly dark while your opponent still has queues for all borderlands.

I don’t know why people think just because they are on a T1 server that that makes them one of the best at their class or have a more valid opinion. For all the rest of us know, you could not even participate in WvW or do so and not really have any impact.

Well, yeah, clearly you’re right and that wasn’t intended to be my central message.

KirstenRoth.6809:

I’m confused here. I followed the link and it does not say anything about warrior longbow shots piercing.

Stronger Bowstrings provides multiple buffs you would only find out about through encountering it frequently or using it yourself barring a simple Google search on the topic which will turn up results from these very forums containing multiple threads on the subject. Also there are also a few Warrior longbow “pro tips” videos on YouTube.

I followed the link as well and didn’t see anything about it piercing like you said it does.

Do you have a link to one of these videos?